Log for #openttd on 16th August 2017:
Times are UTC Toggle Colours
00:00:08  *** orudge` has joined #openttd
00:00:08  *** ChanServ sets mode: +o orudge`
00:01:21  *** debdog has joined #openttd
00:06:54  *** mindlesstux has quit IRC
00:06:57  <Wolf01> 'night
00:07:00  *** Wolf01 has quit IRC
00:07:24  *** mindlesstux has joined #openttd
00:28:02  <_dp_> how did andy miss this one
00:45:46  *** glx has quit IRC
00:54:10  *** debdog has quit IRC
00:54:33  *** debdog has joined #openttd
01:43:51  *** Flygon has joined #openttd
04:27:10  *** mindlesstux has quit IRC
04:27:53  *** mindlesstux has joined #openttd
04:37:36  *** mindlesstux has quit IRC
04:38:18  *** mindlesstux has joined #openttd
05:46:16  *** Cubey has quit IRC
06:09:21  *** andythenorth has joined #openttd
06:15:25  <andythenorth> o/
06:24:00  *** Smedles has quit IRC
06:37:16  *** debdog has quit IRC
06:40:01  *** debdog has joined #openttd
07:09:54  *** Hiddenfunstuff has joined #openttd
07:11:54  *** andythenorth has quit IRC
07:11:56  <crem> \o
07:18:36  *** Thanark has quit IRC
07:30:13  *** debdog has quit IRC
07:33:11  *** debdog has joined #openttd
07:59:06  *** mindlesstux has quit IRC
07:59:42  *** mindlesstux has joined #openttd
08:01:02  *** mindlesstux has quit IRC
08:01:10  *** HerzogDeXtEr has joined #openttd
08:01:36  *** mindlesstux has joined #openttd
08:17:49  *** orudge has quit IRC
08:21:31  *** orudge has joined #openttd
08:23:36  *** debdog has quit IRC
08:26:53  *** debdog has joined #openttd
08:31:55  *** andythenorth has joined #openttd
08:34:44  *** Biolunar has joined #openttd
08:53:09  <peter1138> hurr, people in the office talking about factorio
09:06:52  <andythenorth> such F
09:11:16  <peter1138> a whole capital F?
09:14:46  <andythenorth> apparently
09:15:34  <andythenorth> can we remove taking over comapnies?
09:15:39  <andythenorth> or companies even?
09:15:52  <andythenorth> it spawns a shitload of feature requests
09:16:32  <planetmaker> That would make it difficult to play jointly and build together
09:16:53  <andythenorth> apparently that is difficult :)
09:16:56  <andythenorth> already
09:33:10  *** Smedles has joined #openttd
09:36:45  *** FLHerne has joined #openttd
09:37:46  *** Wolf01 has joined #openttd
09:38:09  <Wolf01> Moin
09:39:05  *** mescalito has joined #openttd
09:39:52  <andythenorth> lo
09:44:34  <andythenorth> closed 15 more FS
09:45:02  <andythenorth> Wolf01: maybe we should try applying some patches? o_O
09:45:26  <andythenorth> ach we’d have to test MP desyncs and crap though
09:45:34  <Wolf01> Yes, but they need code review
09:45:38  * andythenorth has no idea how to do that
09:45:39  <Wolf01> Are you able to do it?
09:45:45  <andythenorth> code review?  Not a chance
09:46:05  <andythenorth> patchpack, testing cluster, chaos monkey
09:46:13  <andythenorth> apply every patch, run it for 5 days
09:46:18  <andythenorth> if stats say it works, ship it
09:48:23  <Wolf01> Can you make a list of patches?
09:48:54  <andythenorth> Flyspray needs tags :P
09:49:11  <andythenorth> I could use the priorities as a hack
09:51:41  <Wolf01> Add more states and use those
09:51:49  <Wolf01> "in review"
09:52:13  <andythenorth> I’ll just make them ‘flash’ for now
09:52:18  <andythenorth> there aren’t many interesting ones
09:53:48  <Wolf01> There isn't a column for priority in the list (but you can add it), and with status you could show a little of movement to people
09:55:41  <Wolf01> I should identify what I'm good for, and then apply all myself to it
09:57:14  <Wolf01> I know I'm good at prototyping, not so useful if I want stuff merged in trunk, I'm like a designer which can only make sketches
09:57:59  <Wolf01> So I can't review the code too :/
09:57:59  <andythenorth> Wolf01: actually I just scanned the patches
09:58:25  <andythenorth> either (1) they’re a bad idea or (2) they’re things I don’t understand or (3) they’ve already been reviewed and failed, and never developed further
09:58:53  <andythenorth> this is the only one that I thought looked interesting and not a bad idea
09:59:34  <Wolf01> Code smells
10:00:38  <Wolf01> For example the switch should be put in new lines, even if there's only one instruction
10:01:07  <Wolf01> Missing braces on ifs
10:01:13  <Wolf01> That's my review
10:01:15  <Wolf01> :P
10:01:23  <andythenorth> close it
10:01:37  * andythenorth thinks now to close a lot of patch FS
10:03:26  <Wolf01> Also the switch is useless, just use v->type in the counter and handle 2 special cases
10:04:03  <Wolf01> Magic numbers
10:04:08  <andythenorth> reject
10:05:06  <Wolf01> Maybe it was aligned to r7059 standards, but not with the current
10:05:40  <Wolf01> Those tabs in english.txt
10:11:57  <LordAro> i'd close any patches that are >5 years old
10:12:21  <LordAro> (that haven't been updated, might be worth checking forums)
10:12:51  <LordAro> alternaticely, for 385, doesn't look too complicated, rewrite it?
10:13:17  <Wolf01> That was my thought
10:28:39  <_dp_> bug/feature with outdated patch is still no worse than one without a patch :p
10:29:44  <peter1138> moo
10:29:57  <_dp_> andythenorth, found one more bug for you to close:
10:30:02  <peter1138>
10:35:42  <andythenorth> LordAro: I’m +1 to closing >5 years old
10:35:49  <andythenorth> or do you have edit rights LordAro ? o_O
10:36:57  <andythenorth> _dp_: closed it
10:36:58  <andythenorth> thanks
10:47:26  *** crem has quit IRC
10:47:52  <Wolf01> Could I add a patch to fs?
10:47:54  <Wolf01> :D
10:50:21  <LordAro> andythenorth: alas, i do not
10:50:30  <LordAro> despite my best efforts over the years
10:51:04  <LordAro> andythenorth: also, i have actual work to do :p
10:56:13  <peter1138> hmm, so should i get a mikrotik or ubiquiti ap
10:57:03  <LordAro> yes.
10:57:45  <peter1138> heh
10:59:01  *** mescalito has quit IRC
11:04:15  <Wolf01> I did right?
11:05:41  <peter1138> ooh typo
11:06:08  <Wolf01> STATIOV!
11:06:28  <LordAro> STATIOV!
11:09:15  <peter1138> COVFEFE
11:10:53  <Wolf01> also
11:10:58  <andythenorth> there are a few other typo patches in the queue Wolf01 :)
11:11:01  <andythenorth> you could bundle them
11:12:04  <andythenorth>
11:12:29  <Wolf01> Yes
11:13:13  <andythenorth> actually that was all
11:13:19  <andythenorth> I thought there were more
11:13:26  <LordAro> Wolf01: texteditor files should, technically, go in your global ignores rather than the project
11:14:17  <LordAro> Wolf01: but you also forgot the svn:ignore addition :p
11:14:33  *** FLHerne has quit IRC
11:14:44  *** FLHerne has joined #openttd
11:15:02  <andythenorth> there’s also a string removal list
11:15:12  <Wolf01> I know, but I don't have the .svn file
11:15:31  <LordAro> Wolf01: doesn't go in there anyway ;)
11:15:37  <LordAro> (yay propset)
11:15:50  <peter1138> smelly svn
11:16:12  <Wolf01> I can do that with the trunk checkout
11:16:51  <Wolf01> My local working copy is git
11:17:16  <Wolf01> BTW.. if only there was a place to set that in the IDE
11:19:25  <LordAro> i'd imagine there's a gitconfig file somewhere
11:19:39  <Wolf01>
11:20:08  <Wolf01> There's an entire template for ingoring VS shit
11:20:18  * peter1138 loads up openttd into vs code just for... no reason
11:21:03  <LordAro> * peter1138 screams and closes it again
11:21:25  <peter1138> needs vim key bindings :p
11:21:39  <Wolf01> Ha! I should "opt-out" from this functionality by changing a registry key
11:21:39  <LordAro> i believe there's a plugin
11:21:55  <peter1138> oh yes there is
11:22:01  <peter1138> *installs*
11:23:51  <Wolf01> I can't understand why they used the project folder and not the documents folder to keep these files, maybe to help sharing the IDE settings with the group, but I would have liked more an import/export for that
11:24:51  <andythenorth> 566 FS issues
11:24:59  <andythenorth> less than 840 eh?
11:25:41  <LordAro> 66 to go
11:26:04  *** debdog has quit IRC
11:30:13  <Wolf01> Computer\HKEY_CURRENT_USER\Software\Microsoft\VisualStudio.0_Config\FeatureFlags\Solution\WorkingFolders\LegacySUOMode <- easy to find
11:31:34  *** debdog has joined #openttd
11:32:59  <Wolf01> BTW, LordAro: since there's already projects/*.suo in .gitignore, it's the same of .vs, as they moved the IDE config from a single file to a folder
11:35:01  <LordAro> Wolf01: oh indeed
11:35:51  <Wolf01> And svn alreadi has .vs ignored
11:35:54  <LordAro> just my personal preference for ignore files is that they should only contain files generated by the project, not fikes generated by the text editor/environment
11:35:56  <Wolf01> *already
11:36:25  <Wolf01> I just checked, so it's missing on .gitignore and .hgignore
11:36:45  <LordAro> fair nuff :)
11:37:53  <Wolf01> I'll submit both patches to fs, maybe I'll change the name of the ignores... maybe not
11:39:22  <Wolf01> What category is that? Build system?
11:39:25  <Wolf01> Core?
11:39:34  <andythenorth> dunno :)
11:39:43  <andythenorth> then you’ll need to find someone with commit rights ;)
11:39:48  <andythenorth>
11:39:54  <LordAro> probably build system
11:40:07  <LordAro> @seen Yexo
11:40:07  <DorpsGek> LordAro: Yexo was last seen in #openttd 4 years, 37 weeks, 0 days, 22 hours, 23 minutes, and 35 seconds ago: <Yexo> <NGC3982> The station glitches are CHIPS related. I adressed it to Andy the other day, and it seems like it's b0rked in some way. <- it's still in the issue tracker for CHIPS, but I haven't had time to look at it yet
11:40:10  <LordAro> F
11:41:58  <Wolf01> He is here... maybe
11:47:48  <andythenorth> nah long gone :)
11:51:06  <LordAro> ottdc bouncer
11:52:49  <LordAro> i have to say, if there's one thing i think that could improve the patch/trunk/deadness situation, it's more people with commit access
11:53:18  <andythenorth> the ratio of ‘people with access / people committing in last 4 years’ is not good :)
11:56:21  *** crem has joined #openttd
11:56:34  <Wolf01> LordAro: I tried to look how to niceli disable the .vs folder, and I concluded that if I want to use different IDE settings for different project I should ignore the .vs folder from the CVS
11:56:50  <Wolf01> *nicely.. what do I have against y today?
11:58:51  <Wolf01> I added the task, your decision to apply the patch :P
11:59:33  <Wolf01> andythenorth! Two more tasks for you to review :D
11:59:42  <andythenorth> thanks
12:00:06  <andythenorth> needs a code review ;)
12:00:11  <Wolf01> Totally
12:00:22  <Wolf01> I could do it
12:00:26  <Wolf01> ...Passed!
12:01:18  <FLHerne> More active people with commit access, then
12:01:36  <andythenorth> we need to not rely on frosch :)
12:01:40  <andythenorth> for fairness
12:01:59  <Wolf01> We rely on frosch, peter, LA, TB
12:02:05  <Wolf01> Maybe RB too
12:02:13  <peter1138> hmm?
12:02:46  <andythenorth> path reviews ;)
12:02:50  <andythenorth> or patch reviews
12:02:51  <andythenorth> either
12:02:52  <andythenorth> both
12:03:45  <Wolf01> Also alberth
12:03:46  <peter1138> last time i committed i fucked it all up
12:03:55  <andythenorth> standard for me
12:04:16  <andythenorth> how badly wrong can it go? :P
12:04:25  <peter1138>  13:04:18 up 843 days
12:04:27  <andythenorth> we don’t actually have paying customers :P
12:04:28  <peter1138> ought to reboot that one
12:04:32  <LordAro> me? i've hardly been active at all in the last 4 years because of uni
12:04:33  <peter1138> "how badly wrong can it go?"
12:04:47  <peter1138> i'm not active cos i'm lazy
12:04:48  <LordAro> * peter1138 timed out
12:04:54  <peter1138> also i'm actually active in the right way
12:04:59  <peter1138> on the bike :p
12:05:07  <Wolf01> Unless you can't revert changes, it isn't too bad :P
12:05:14  <LordAro> ^
12:05:17  <LordAro> x2
12:05:18  <peter1138> LordAro, I'm doing a 200km audax on Saturday. For "fun".
12:05:34  <LordAro> peter1138: i'm doing a 100km on sunday :)
12:05:42  <LordAro> noice tho
12:05:49  <Wolf01> I'm doing nothing on always
12:07:19  <Wolf01> <-
12:07:41  <peter1138> LordAro, nice :D
12:10:43  * andythenorth should do some exercise bike
12:10:45  <andythenorth> not 200km
12:13:22  <LordAro> why not? :D
12:13:35  * LordAro would probably die if he tried 200km
12:13:46  * LordAro will probably die when trying 100km
12:14:08  <LordAro> did 43miles a couple of months ago
12:14:11  <LordAro> but...
12:14:24  <peter1138> nah i see you've done a 4...
12:15:36  <Wolf01> How do I install ottd on ubuntu? :D
12:15:46  <Wolf01> (not from apt, that's too easy)
12:16:00  <peter1138> download package, install?
12:16:08  <peter1138> i guess you might have icu issues
12:17:46  <LordAro> there's a thing that installs dependencies somewhere
12:18:34  <Wolf01> Ok, I'll install it and then update the files
12:19:12  <LordAro> ..update the files?
12:19:28  <LordAro> you shouldn't modify files under the control of a package manager
12:19:40  <peter1138> gdebi
12:19:41  <Wolf01> Oh ok
12:19:58  <LordAro> dpkg -i ottd.deb
12:20:03  <LordAro> apt-get install -f
12:20:06  <LordAro> dpkg -i ottd.deb
12:20:08  <LordAro> probably.
12:21:49  <Wolf01> Nice, I didn't know we had ascii-art openttd
12:22:41  <peter1138> sdl driver
12:23:13  <Wolf01> Also no x server
12:23:15  <Wolf01>
12:33:43  <LordAro> wat
12:35:35  <andythenorth> well played
12:35:40  <andythenorth> that’s a valid April fools
12:36:22  <Wolf01> Next year one
12:36:48  <Wolf01> If I only can close the game...
12:36:59  <Wolf01> It seem to get mouse input
12:37:25  <Wolf01> Ok, I closed the error popup
12:38:10  <Wolf01> Ok, disabling the selection with the mouse worked
12:38:36  <Wolf01> I should make a video
12:39:58  <Wolf01> Ahahah opened the content manager by mistake
12:40:25  <Wolf01> Fuck close it XD
12:44:43  <andythenorth> bbl
12:44:44  *** andythenorth has quit IRC
12:46:59  *** debdog has quit IRC
12:49:58  *** debdog has joined #openttd
12:50:47  <Wolf01> the 1.7.1 :P
12:51:54  <crem> If only the projection was not isometric but rectangular topdown, it would be playable!
12:52:07  <Wolf01> Sim city :D
12:53:17  <crem> Text mode building game would be awesome!  Dwarf fortress it a bit too hardcore. Something like simcity would be perfect. Or ttd, yes.
12:53:48  <crem> Speaking of dwarf fortress..
12:53:50  <crem>
12:54:05  <Wolf01> Wat
12:55:24  <Wolf01> LOL
13:12:55  *** debdog has quit IRC
13:18:20  *** andythenorth has joined #openttd
13:18:54  *** debdog has joined #openttd
13:22:13  <Wolf01> Good, I now have my bank account tied to paypal
13:22:23  <Wolf01> A bit late
13:22:35  <Wolf01> I needed it 3 days ago
13:25:42  *** mescalito has joined #openttd
13:27:33  *** andythenorth has quit IRC
13:39:25  *** debdog has quit IRC
13:42:29  *** debdog has joined #openttd
13:43:21  <peter1138> what are you buying me?
13:44:05  <Wolf01> Nothing, I don't buy even for me
13:46:41  *** Alberth has joined #openttd
13:46:41  *** ChanServ sets mode: +o Alberth
13:46:45  <Alberth> o/
13:46:50  <Wolf01> o/
13:54:36  *** sim-al2 has quit IRC
14:06:26  *** debdog has quit IRC
14:10:07  *** andythenorth has joined #openttd
14:12:00  *** debdog has joined #openttd
14:13:52  *** andythenorth has quit IRC
14:20:12  *** andythenorth has joined #openttd
14:54:19  *** Wormnest has joined #openttd
15:15:57  *** Cubey has joined #openttd
15:21:05  <supermop> whats the opinion on buses out at outskirts of town and villages
15:21:29  <Alkel_U3> I use them
15:21:44  <supermop> i've been trying a few transfer station in the outer parts of town
15:22:43  <supermop> where a regular bus comes in from a village or outskirts and then has a transfer with a more frequent/larger bus or tram
15:22:56  <Flygon> I end up using Trams because the bus drivers end up getting lost as fuck.
15:23:07  <Alkel_U3> sometimes I don't build a train station in the vicinity of a vilage at all and just do this feeder service with a bus
15:23:37  <supermop> whereas before i would have run the less frequent bus all the way into the central stations, trying to slot it in amongst the trams or busses that make more regular trips
15:23:38  <Alkel_U3> like, the train stop is in the middle of nowhere
15:24:09  <supermop> or i would run the tram or large bus all the way out to the end of the route
15:24:35  <supermop> really need TaI and ViV
15:24:59  <Alkel_U3> oh, so that was the question. Well, due to jams sometimes I do that but only in very largecities
15:25:26  <supermop> otherwise every patch of land becomes so dense with passengers that anything other than biggest trams everywhere as often as possible wont work
15:27:12  <Alkel_U3> I usually play with TaI and daylength - what's ViV?
15:27:25  <supermop> villages is villages
15:27:48  <supermop> gamescript
15:27:54  <Alkel_U3> oooh, that looks nice
15:29:29  <supermop> i always build my networks backwards - now that the passenger services are all built out, i need to figure out how to run some freights through them
15:30:49  <Alkel_U3> I never figured a good way to mix freight and passangers without daylength of at least 10
15:31:22  <supermop> with viv and tai, you can keep up with lots of outlying villages and hamlets that just get an occasional bus service
15:32:03  <Alkel_U3> I can't wait to run a NG track through some :-)
15:32:27  <supermop> IH NG will never work if your villages is like swedish houses
15:32:53  <supermop> by month 2 1400 villagers are waiting for your 60 passenger train
15:33:16  <Alkel_U3> I haven't played with those - it's not visually appealing to me
15:33:45  <Alkel_U3> it especially doesn't fit well into the original graphics
15:34:19  <Alkel_U3> but I used to play with TTRS and yeah, that was like that
15:39:04  *** Progman has joined #openttd
15:39:15  <supermop> TaI is pretty close in style to original graphics
15:39:49  <supermop> and the lower passenger number is nice for certain styles of play
15:43:27  <Alkel_U3> I like both of those features, yeah
15:44:58  <Alkel_U3> but I know someone who doesn't play with TaI solely becose he can't get over a house changing orientation when a nearby street is rebuilt :-)
15:45:06  <supermop> haha
15:45:14  <supermop> yeah that part could use some work
15:45:27  <supermop> i think pikka is done with it though
15:45:42  <Alkel_U3> looks like it, unfortunately
15:45:44  <Wolf01> Seems nice, lets merge it
15:46:08  <supermop> add reorienting houses to trunk, Wolf01 ?
15:46:56  <supermop> brb have to go to job site and see what is completely messed up today
15:47:57  *** Mole[m] has joined #openttd
15:48:02  *** Mole[m] has left #openttd
15:54:35  <__ln___> greetings from czechoslovakia
15:55:53  <Wolf01> o/
15:56:42  *** Flygon has quit IRC
16:00:57  *** TheMask96 has quit IRC
16:04:15  *** TheMask96 has joined #openttd
16:07:21  *** andythenorth has joined #openttd
16:13:32  *** frosch123 has joined #openttd
16:13:32  *** sla_ro|master has joined #openttd
16:17:28  <Wolf01> Quak
16:19:00  *** FLHerne has quit IRC
16:20:09  <frosch123> moo
16:20:12  <andythenorth> baa
16:20:33  <frosch123> more steel?
16:24:49  *** Lejving__ is now known as Lejving
16:28:46  <frosch123> looks like i need a third reactor :o
16:29:54  *** Progman has quit IRC
16:32:41  <frosch123> yay, fast enough, built it when reactor temperature had dropped to 750
16:33:23  <V453000> =D
16:34:02  <frosch123> the electric grid doesn't tell you anything about the reactor load, if you ship hot steam to outposts
16:34:11  <frosch123> you have to monitor the reactor temperature
16:34:27  <frosch123> or it all breaks down
16:49:44  *** Gja has joined #openttd
16:52:19  *** Gja has quit IRC
16:59:08  *** Alberth has quit IRC
17:01:21  *** Alberth has joined #openttd
17:01:21  *** ChanServ sets mode: +o Alberth
17:03:43  *** Stimrol has joined #openttd
17:12:50  *** Stimrol has quit IRC
17:14:32  *** glx has joined #openttd
17:14:33  *** ChanServ sets mode: +v glx
17:20:32  *** Stimrol has joined #openttd
17:20:46  <andythenorth> more deleting I think
17:21:04  <andythenorth> so how did all these people get commit rights? o_O
17:21:07  <Eddi|zuHause>  <__ln___> greetings from czechoslovakia <- dangit, he took a time machine to 25 years in the past
17:21:10  <andythenorth> and who else could have commit rights? o-O
17:21:19  <Eddi|zuHause> that was before tt was invented
17:21:28  * andythenorth does *not* want commit rights 
17:22:13  <Eddi|zuHause> svn log?
17:23:56  <LordAro> andythenorth: "Wolfolo"
17:28:55  <Wolf01> Who?
17:37:28  <andythenorth> bbl
17:37:30  *** andythenorth has quit IRC
17:41:45  *** FLHerne has joined #openttd
18:03:16  *** FLHerne has quit IRC
18:11:14  *** andythenorth has joined #openttd
18:14:20  <Eddi|zuHause> for some reason "Wolfolo" reminds me of age of empires
18:14:47  <Wolf01> That's wololo
18:14:58  <Eddi|zuHause> exactly
18:15:05  <Eddi|zuHause> just a single letter difference
18:17:48  <V453000> gg
18:18:16  <andythenorth> lo V453000
18:18:56  <andythenorth> is it beer time?
18:18:58  <V453000> hi :)
18:19:06  <V453000> ish
18:19:34  <Wolf01> You should look for __ln___
18:20:16  <andythenorth> beer is not cold
18:20:18  <andythenorth> error
18:20:23  <andythenorth> wine instead
18:24:02  <frosch123> LordAro: i guess multi-byte constants are find
18:24:05  <frosch123> *fine
18:24:21  <frosch123> they are used in so many places, we would notice immediately if behaviour changes
18:24:29  <frosch123> like not being able to load the introame
18:24:47  <andythenorth> we should persuade someone to write tests :P
18:25:31  <LordAro> frosch123: yeah
18:25:38  <LordAro> also what andythenorth said :p
18:25:43  <andythenorth> jenkins -> nightly build -> client-server cluster -> admin port -> GS + AI game
18:25:46  <andythenorth> logged
18:25:56  <andythenorth> detecting actual failures would be hard though
18:25:57  <frosch123> andythenorth: there was an idea to build a savegame archive
18:26:04  <Wolf01> OTTD would benefit a lot of some refactoring and modularity
18:26:06  <frosch123> with samegames for each savegame version
18:26:09  <andythenorth> running tests is sometimes easier than making sense of the tests
18:26:27  <frosch123> and automatic loading-resaving with every new version
18:26:41  <andythenorth> we can script enough stuff that we could chaos-monkey or soak test things
18:27:07  <andythenorth>
18:27:55  <andythenorth> the nice thing: it wouldn’t need any code review :P
18:28:19  <andythenorth> (as a project for new developers)
18:28:29  <Wolf01> I'm sure that simple unit tests will detect a lot of bugs
18:29:01  <Wolf01> Too bad I wasn't able to perform even a simple test
18:29:04  <andythenorth> we found bugs yesterday at work just from writing tests
18:29:12  <Wolf01> Many globals
18:29:20  <andythenorth> writing tests means reading code -> found errors
18:29:34  <frosch123> the paste.o.o python script fails because it does not accept the certificate
18:30:28  <frosch123> Wolf01: we have some integration tests
18:31:02  <frosch123> i wouldn't know how to apply unit tests to ottd
18:31:17  <frosch123> unit tests kind of assume object oriented code, which we don't have
18:31:26  <Wolf01> I do, but OTTD ned extensive refactoring
18:31:29  <Wolf01> *need
18:31:53  <Wolf01> Yes, it should be OO
18:32:35  <frosch123> LordAro: <- anyway, if we would remove multibyte constants, i would do it like that
18:33:02  <frosch123> but i do not feel like writing some magic to replace all the usages
18:33:16  <frosch123> (diff likely is broken, i c&p it via clipboard :p)
18:34:37  <_dp_> not just oo, it has to be coded with tests in mind
18:34:45  <_dp_> like singletons are oo too
18:35:30  <frosch123> "singleton" is a fancy name for "global variable"
18:37:48  <_dp_> as any other static stuff
18:40:09  <_dp_> but testable code is far deeper topic than just globals
18:40:41  <andythenorth> unit test <-> integration test <-> functional test
18:40:49  <andythenorth> with some of the boundaries blurred
18:41:01  <andythenorth> unit tests for ottd…surely not? o_O
18:41:15  <frosch123> "functional test" is "manual test"?
18:41:19  <LordAro> frosch123: i can't look at paste because of the cert error :<
18:41:22  <andythenorth> or scripted frosch123
18:41:43  <andythenorth> manual first though
18:41:53  <andythenorth> testing things only humans can understand, initially
18:42:54  <andythenorth> in our case the distinction of integration test and functional test is probably boring semantics
18:44:04  <frosch123> LordAro: 0003 looks really weird to me
18:46:24  *** Gja has joined #openttd
18:47:55  <andythenorth> Wolf01: worth testing? o_O
18:49:07  <Wolf01> Every bug might need to be tested
18:49:29  <LordAro> frosch123: it does, but apparently otherwise memset gets passed a long, or somthing, and it complains about the range of values you're passing it
18:49:43  <andythenorth> Wolf01: I’m picking off the ones that look easy to repro :)
18:49:56  <frosch123> +                                               memset(statspec->platforms + statspec->lengths, 0, (length - statspec->lengths) * sizeof(*statspec->platforms)); <- LordAro: would that also silence it?
18:49:59  <andythenorth> ‘crash after leaving game running for hours’ with no assertion line….boring :P
18:50:27  <andythenorth> we’re not increasing number of grfs, right?
18:50:33  <frosch123> i don't like the (byte) cast since it makes the code kind of wrong. otoh adding a sizeof() would make it more correct
18:50:52  <LordAro> frosch123: not sure without my desktop, it was difficult to get the warning to go away
18:51:01  <LordAro> will be back there in an hour or so
18:51:02  <frosch123> andythenorth: it was slightly increased in 1.7
18:51:25  <andythenorth> it’s not a current goal…?  (heading for closure...)
18:52:13  <frosch123> i only know my goals :p
18:54:17  <LordAro> frosch123: alternatively, maybe MemSetT should be used
18:54:36  <frosch123> also good
18:55:02  <LordAro> istr trying that to no effect
18:55:16  <frosch123>  /* We expect NULL being 0 here, but C99 guarantees that. */ <- he, i usually cite c++98
18:55:27  *** Gja has quit IRC
18:55:36  <LordAro> ha
19:01:54  <Eddi|zuHause> uhm... i built office spaces, and suddenly most of my industries are abandoned
19:02:02  <Eddi|zuHause> i guess all the overqualified workers ran away
19:02:15  <Eddi|zuHause> ... at least my traffic problems are less now :p
19:07:26  *** sla_ro|master has quit IRC
19:12:26  <supermop> would be interesting to see a passengers vs transported for the whole map
19:12:45  <supermop> to see roughly how much of the regional population has access to transit
19:19:04  *** Gja has joined #openttd
19:22:37  *** gelignite has joined #openttd
19:28:42  *** Gja has quit IRC
19:38:40  *** debdog has quit IRC
19:40:00  <Eddi|zuHause> 129999 inhabitants... how... odd...
19:40:46  *** debdog has joined #openttd
19:47:22  <frosch123> maybe you missed yourself when counting?
19:47:36  *** Progman has joined #openttd
20:08:56  <planetmaker> supermop, but those statistics are roughly available :) Towns have a population which is announced. And you can check your transported amount
20:09:18  <supermop> only for each town one at a time
20:09:37  <planetmaker> supermop, if memory serves me well, on a map with like 1M inhabitants, we reached on a coop server once like 200.000 pax transported
20:09:47  <planetmaker> (it was a one-town map)
20:10:20  <supermop> well to get 100% every house would need to be covered by at least two stations
20:11:08  <supermop> but i meant more as a rough measure of how many people are living out in the hinterlands with no connection to the world, at a glance
20:12:02  <planetmaker> <--- at the bottom we have 2 population games... but yeah... probably less than 10% transported.
20:12:09  <planetmaker> How do you define "no connection"?
20:12:24  <_dp_> supermop, citymania client has transported cargo stats and world population in towns list
20:12:37  <_dp_> last one mb vanilla tho
20:13:17  <supermop> something like transported vs passengers produced, but also total population of towns without any connection
20:13:36  *** orudge` has quit IRC
20:13:41  <supermop> measure by towns with no rating, or no passengers transported
20:13:44  *** orudge` has joined #openttd
20:13:44  *** ChanServ sets mode: +o orudge`
20:14:34  <supermop> i guess you could more exotically try to count every house that is not within the catchment area of a station with passenger service
20:14:40  <supermop> but that sounds really hard
20:16:21  <_dp_> supermop, you can estimate that from transported amount since house production is a % of its population on average
20:16:33  <_dp_> about 50% per month iir
20:18:08  <_dp_> so world population * 50% is about equal to amount of passengers produced by all towns
20:18:23  <andythenorth> so eh, a developer I work with is core Plone contributor.  Plone had same issue of less and less core developers => less fun being one of the ones left
20:18:24  <_dp_> if it's 50% that is, don't rly remember exact %
20:18:40  <andythenorth> Plone opened up commit rights to a ~anyone who signed a contributor agreement
20:18:51  <andythenorth> and they have to use pull requests
20:18:59  <andythenorth> and bad commit choices = removal of rights
20:20:15  <andythenorth> they don’t mention it on this page, but apparently that’s how it works :P
20:20:17  <andythenorth>
20:21:46  <andythenorth> the goal isn’t so much ‘let all the patches in’ as ‘make it more fun to be a developer’
20:21:56  *** Hiddenfunstuff has quit IRC
20:22:07  <_dp_> I coded for Plone on my first work, like 10 years ago, got so fed up with it that never even considered using Plone again xD
20:22:29  <andythenorth> yes
20:22:32  *** FLHerne has joined #openttd
20:22:34  <_dp_> tho most of it was not Plone fault but that we tried to use it for stuff it clearly wasn't designed for
20:22:46  * andythenorth is playing a 10 year game called ‘get out of Plone'
20:22:52  <andythenorth> we built commercial products in it
20:22:58  <andythenorth> in it / on it :P
20:23:16  <_dp_> somewhere around it xD
20:23:31  *** sim-al2 has joined #openttd
20:23:31  <andythenorth> we circumvent most of it
20:23:40  <andythenorth> but kept all of the boilerplate framework and overhead
20:23:46  <andythenorth> worst of all possible worlds :)
20:24:34  <andythenorth> functional tests for everything, and rewrite one piece at a time :P
20:24:44  <andythenorth> and one day…no more plone
20:24:45  *** Smedles has quit IRC
20:27:30  <Wolf01> It seem like we did with the CMS, started to rewrite all our classes to align them to PSR, noticed they were almost like symfony2 ones, started to use those ones, now the CMS is build on symfony2
20:27:38  *** andythenorth has quit IRC
20:34:59  *** chomwitt has joined #openttd
20:38:14  *** gelignite has quit IRC
20:42:01  *** Alberth has left #openttd
20:42:44  *** andythenorth has joined #openttd
20:48:49  <Wolf01> Too much lag to play, better go full netflix, also no chill
20:52:41  <LordAro> andythenorth: i've heard it can work quite well
20:52:52  <LordAro> you can always revert changes, after all
20:54:38  <andythenorth> yarp
20:54:58  <andythenorth> also, don’t many eyes make shallow bugs? :P
20:55:04  <andythenorth> we have nightly, RC, release
20:55:10  <andythenorth> it’s a pretty careful process
21:05:29  *** andythenorth has quit IRC
21:07:42  *** FLHerne_ has joined #openttd
21:15:08  *** frosch123 has quit IRC
21:15:12  *** FLHerne has quit IRC
21:29:31  *** Thanark has joined #openttd
21:31:42  *** mescalito has quit IRC
21:36:25  *** Progman has quit IRC
21:47:09  *** Stimrol has quit IRC
21:47:42  *** quiznilo has quit IRC
21:48:01  *** quiznilo has joined #openttd
22:00:14  *** Sacro_ is now known as Sacro
22:00:42  *** HerzogDeXtEr has quit IRC
22:18:10  *** Marenz has joined #openttd
22:18:15  <Marenz> Greetings
22:18:23  <Marenz> I just started playing this game the first time
22:19:09  <Marenz> Have some bus system up and running. However, I discovered that one of my stations says "Acccepts: Nothing" (translated, probably not literally that), where as the other stations say "Accepts: Passengers"
22:19:37  <Marenz> Any idea why it wouldn't accept anything?
22:21:27  <Marenz> I also noticed that the bus driving to it seems to never unload its passengers
22:26:56  <LordAro> Marenz: screenshot?
22:27:02  <Wolf01> No houses in the catchement area?
22:28:33  <Marenz> LordAro:
22:29:15  <Marenz> Frankenmünster says "Nimmt an: Nichts" (accepts nothing) where as another station Flensdorf says "Nimmt an: Passagiere" (accepts passengers)
22:29:19  <LordAro> yeah, looks like nothing in the catchment area
22:29:37  <LordAro> some houses only accept "half" a passenger, which rounds down
22:29:47  <Marenz> oh I see
22:30:17  <LordAro> there's an option when you place stations to see catchment area, and what they accept
22:30:38  <Marenz> Does it make sense to have buses drive to multiple stations?
22:30:45  <LordAro> probably
22:31:45  <LordAro> it's ultimately up to you :p
22:31:55  <LordAro> this game is not exactly "hard"
22:53:27  *** Wormnest has quit IRC
23:05:47  *** FLHerne_ has quit IRC
23:09:11  *** Laedek has quit IRC
23:09:28  *** Laedek has joined #openttd
23:58:14  *** Marenz has quit IRC

Powered by YARRSTE version: svn-trunk