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06:38:33 <andythenorth> iz woke up early 06:40:10 <andythenorth> such ow 06:49:57 <Alkel_U3> much early bird, very coffee 06:50:24 <V453000> iz problem 06:51:27 *** supermop has quit IRC 07:00:11 *** supermop has joined #openttd 07:37:28 *** mindlesstux has quit IRC 07:37:57 *** mindlesstux has joined #openttd 07:44:19 *** mescalito has joined #openttd 08:16:27 *** Wolf01 has joined #openttd 08:16:46 <Wolf01> o/ 08:17:10 <andythenorth> lo Warrigal 08:17:12 <andythenorth> or Wolf01 08:21:36 *** supermop has quit IRC 08:24:25 *** supermop has joined #openttd 08:46:50 *** Hiddenfunstuff has joined #openttd 08:51:35 *** supermop has quit IRC 08:54:12 *** supermop has joined #openttd 08:55:13 *** Biolunar has joined #openttd 09:14:26 *** supermop has quit IRC 09:14:26 *** mindlesstux has quit IRC 09:14:26 *** Laedek has quit IRC 09:14:26 *** _dp_ has quit IRC 09:14:26 *** Smedles has quit IRC 09:14:26 *** dvim has quit IRC 09:14:26 *** urdh has quit IRC 09:14:26 *** bwn has quit IRC 09:14:26 *** Ttech has quit IRC 09:15:48 *** supermop has joined #openttd 09:15:48 *** mindlesstux has joined #openttd 09:15:49 *** Laedek has joined #openttd 09:15:49 *** Smedles has joined #openttd 09:15:49 *** bwn has joined #openttd 09:15:49 *** _dp_ has joined #openttd 09:15:49 *** urdh has joined #openttd 09:15:49 *** dvim has joined #openttd 09:15:49 *** Ttech has joined #openttd 09:20:24 <andythenorth> no global, public, saved searches in FS? 09:33:19 *** sim-al2 has quit IRC 09:33:38 <LordAro> needs more FS1.0 09:33:41 <LordAro> probably 09:38:45 <andythenorth> I bunched all the crashes https://bugs.openttd.org/index.php?string=Crash%3A&project=1&search_name=&type%5B%5D=&sev%5B%5D=&pri%5B%5D=&due%5B%5D=&reported%5B%5D=&cat%5B%5D=&status%5B%5D=open&percent%5B%5D=&opened=&dev=&closed=&duedatefrom=&duedateto=&changedfrom=&changedto=&openedfrom=&openedto=&closedfrom=&closedto=&do=index 09:40:48 <LordAro> andythenorth: might help to shorten the urls (get rid of the empty params) and collate them somewhere 09:41:30 <LordAro> failing anything builtin 09:41:48 <andythenorth> plausible 09:44:37 *** Celestar has quit IRC 09:53:45 <Wolf01> No public saved searches in FS1.0 09:54:09 <Wolf01> I could try to make a plugin 09:57:06 *** Celestar has joined #openttd 09:58:23 *** andythenorth has quit IRC 10:01:17 <Wolf01> Ok, no plugin system yet... 10:04:52 <peter1138> heh 10:05:00 <LordAro> lol 10:05:44 <Wolf01> There's a plugins folder but the only plugin is hardcoded 10:05:59 <Wolf01> That's not how it should work 10:07:29 *** supermop_home has joined #openttd 10:12:22 <Wolf01> Mmmh, there's some github support on FS1.0 10:12:45 *** supermop has quit IRC 10:18:41 *** Celestar has quit IRC 10:22:32 *** andythenorth has joined #openttd 10:24:06 <Wolf01> Oh it's only for oauth access :( 10:28:43 *** Celestar has joined #openttd 10:33:37 *** Celestar has quit IRC 10:37:45 *** supermop_home has quit IRC 10:40:29 *** supermop has joined #openttd 10:46:31 *** Celestar has joined #openttd 11:00:48 *** TheMask96 has quit IRC 11:02:49 *** TheMask96 has joined #openttd 11:03:10 *** dvim has quit IRC 11:03:22 *** dvim has joined #openttd 11:07:15 *** supermop_home has joined #openttd 11:08:59 *** supermop has quit IRC 11:34:54 *** ToBeFree has joined #openttd 11:42:35 <Alkel_U3> https://scontent-ams3-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t31.0-8/20934047_10155691434778385_6210327663423420341_o.jpg?oh=7812f312dfba280de4fc01850122fd89&oe=5A1F1F5E 11:48:15 <Wolf01> Lol 11:52:12 *** supermop_home has quit IRC 11:52:16 *** supermop_home has joined #openttd 11:53:00 <peter1138> but that's people searching to see who's written it 11:55:43 <Wolf01> Topic of the day is: what is the best way to do what I want to do? 11:57:58 <Wolf01> I'm still sure the singleton object is good, not so sure about the global variable, One should GetInstance() every time he needs to use it, maybe storing the instance in a local variable for multiple uses 12:11:30 *** sim-al2 has joined #openttd 12:14:47 <milek7> what's singleton? 12:14:55 <milek7> java-speak? 12:15:03 <Wolf01> An object which could be instanciated only once 12:17:25 <__ln__> singleton is one of the original design patterns, it's not java-speak 12:17:55 <Wolf01> Hi __ln__, where are you today? 12:18:52 <__ln__> vienna 12:20:35 <__ln__> going to fly home tonight 12:21:03 <Wolf01> Oh, won't you come here to get the biscuits I purchased for you? 12:22:25 <__ln__> i don't expect the plane to head south, sorry 12:23:02 <__ln__> though what do i need a plane for -- just had a red bull, their national drink 12:24:23 <andythenorth> singleton = root :P 12:24:41 <andythenorth> python, not unix root :P 12:24:56 <milek7> hm, throw in constructor if private static flag indicates that it is already instantaineted? 12:25:16 <milek7> something like GetInstance() is unnecessary imo 12:25:18 <Wolf01> Nope 12:25:38 <Wolf01> Private constructor 12:26:00 <milek7> but then you cannot construct it, not just cannot construct more than once 12:26:02 <Wolf01> Ok, you could do it even with a flag, but you can't return stuff in constructors 12:26:18 <milek7> exceptions 12:26:34 <Wolf01> Not what is wanted 12:26:38 <Wolf01> You can construct it with the GetInstance() 12:27:02 <Wolf01> GetInstance can call the private constructor 12:27:29 <Wolf01> Then you check internally if the instance already exists and return that one in the next calls 12:29:38 *** Lamp-_ is now known as Lamp- 12:30:20 *** Mazur has quit IRC 12:41:05 <andythenorth> is cat? 12:41:38 <Wolf01> Is low self esteem day 12:41:46 <V453000> very cat 12:42:09 <andythenorth> such 12:42:21 * andythenorth scrolling unsplash 12:42:30 <andythenorth> long scroll 12:42:34 <andythenorth> such photos 12:55:55 <Flygon> Alkel_U3: Hahahahahaha. 13:13:58 *** orudge` has quit IRC 13:14:04 *** orudge` has joined #openttd 13:14:05 *** ChanServ sets mode: +o orudge` 13:21:01 <Wolf01> Oh shit c++ confuses methods with variables 13:21:11 <Wolf01> *types 13:22:40 *** supermop_ has joined #openttd 13:28:05 *** supermop_home has quit IRC 13:30:39 <Wolf01> Now I understand why people used to prefix things 13:31:18 <andythenorth> we used to do that in Flash ActionScript 13:31:22 <andythenorth> recommended practice 13:31:28 <andythenorth> varNumLivesLeft 13:31:33 <Celestar> ?!?! 13:31:47 <andythenorth> listEnemyPositions 13:31:48 <Celestar> that's almost as bad as the shitty hungarian notation. 13:31:59 <andythenorth> it’s a distorted version of hungarian notation 13:32:04 <andythenorth> took me years to break the habit 13:32:05 <Wolf01> GameMode GameMode() { return this->game_mode; } overwrites GameMode type :P 13:32:15 <andythenorth> python is very anti- that kind of notation :) 13:32:30 <andythenorth> now I twitch if I write vehicles_list = [] 13:32:36 <andythenorth> “BUT IT MIGHT NOT BE A LIST" 13:34:10 <andythenorth> https://books.google.co.uk/books?id=yIErBgAAQBAJ&pg=PA54&lpg=PA54&dq=actionscript+hungarian+notation&source=bl&ots=EfcjqVNcJL&sig=oI4ico40ELFocoMEr28NsJ5o6aE&hl=en&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwixvcCO-urVAhUhBMAKHTzdBusQ6AEIMTAD#v=onepage&q=actionscript%20hungarian%20notation&f=false 13:34:30 <andythenorth> FFS, what a shit language convention :) 13:35:00 <andythenorth> ActionScript is bollocks 13:35:07 <Celestar> flash just went from 'shitty' to 'abyssmal' 13:35:07 <andythenorth> it has one nice feature, which is trivial traversal of the object hierarchy 13:35:28 <andythenorth> which also shows up in some python things 13:35:47 <andythenorth> _self._parent._parent.x = 10 13:35:59 <andythenorth> oops, no ; 13:36:01 <Wolf01> That's the fault of typeless variables 13:36:04 <andythenorth> that will fail to compile :P 13:36:13 <andythenorth> Wolf01: ActionScript is typed :P 13:36:16 <andythenorth> strongly iirc 13:36:29 <andythenorth> oh, but not vars 13:36:31 <andythenorth> vars are just vars 13:36:37 <Wolf01> So, how can you put 10 into a string? 13:36:41 <Wolf01> Eh 13:36:48 <andythenorth> yeah no you’re right 13:36:54 * andythenorth checks 13:37:08 <Wolf01> PHP is the same shit 13:37:13 <Wolf01> But it's changing 13:37:40 <Wolf01> Also you can check what is contained on each var and put validations on every function 13:37:40 <andythenorth> they’re only strongly typed in ActionScript 3, but that’s post my time 13:38:24 <Wolf01> In PHP for example you can even pass a string as a valid array... and shit bricks 13:39:25 <Wolf01> And javascript same shit too, but everything is an object there 13:40:03 <andythenorth> Wolf01: try some python :D 13:44:29 *** ToBeFree has quit IRC 13:45:38 <_dp_> python is strongly typed, more than c even 13:45:43 <_dp_> but dynamically 13:47:15 <andythenorth> quack 13:47:53 <crem> quack++ 13:49:11 <andythenorth> repr([duck.name for duck in ducks if duck.quack]) 13:49:28 <andythenorth> error: duck.name cannot be converted to string 13:49:37 <andythenorth> fricking duck 22 13:49:53 <andythenorth> ^ that’s probably not valid python 13:49:57 * andythenorth didn’t test 13:50:10 *** supermop_ has quit IRC 13:50:32 <andythenorth> name error: ducks not found 13:52:34 *** sim-al2 has quit IRC 13:54:52 <V453000> every python is valid 13:54:56 <V453000> don't discriminate 13:55:05 *** supermop has joined #openttd 13:55:22 <V453000> python is just 2 tentacly eyes away from a slug 13:55:28 <V453000> no messing with that 14:00:28 *** supermop_ has joined #openttd 14:02:42 <Wolf01> A python isn't slimey 14:02:56 <andythenorth> dry 14:02:56 *** supermop has quit IRC 14:02:57 <andythenorth> warm 14:03:08 <andythenorth> snakes are remarkably fun 14:03:10 <andythenorth> not slimey 14:04:19 <V453000> duh 14:04:27 <V453000> /me has no words 14:04:59 <V453000> also I actually stopped being a lazy piece of trash and dove right into redoing them BRIX trees 14:05:10 <V453000> it's not going too badly but it's still a lot of them models :) 14:05:13 <V453000> no python aid there 14:06:16 *** supermop has joined #openttd 14:13:46 *** Flygon has quit IRC 14:16:37 *** Mazur has joined #openttd 14:50:12 *** supermop has quit IRC 14:52:36 *** supermop has joined #openttd 15:32:47 *** debdog has quit IRC 15:36:35 *** debdog has joined #openttd 15:42:29 *** frosch123 has joined #openttd 15:43:49 *** supermop has quit IRC 15:46:15 *** supermop has joined #openttd 15:50:34 *** supermop has quit IRC 15:52:15 *** supermop_home has joined #openttd 15:58:52 <Wolf01> Bah tedious work, >500 occurrencies to replace one by one 16:00:23 <andythenorth> write a code generator :P 16:05:09 *** Progman has joined #openttd 16:05:10 <frosch123> hmm, will the kdev4-project-generator patch work for kdev5? 16:06:02 <Wolf01> Quak 16:07:07 <Wolf01> andythenorth: I would replace all occurrencies with snippets, but then I would need to find again all the places where I can replace again the GetInstance with a local variable 16:10:22 <andythenorth> frosch123: presumably we could test that, with enough patience and VMs? :P 16:14:00 *** Cubey has joined #openttd 16:14:07 *** synchris has joined #openttd 16:24:25 <frosch123> who had the idea to put utf-16 values into inifiles by \x escaping all characters... 16:24:45 <LordAro> burn them 16:25:10 <frosch123> why does kdevelop use utf16 in the first place? 16:25:17 <frosch123> only windows-people use utf16 16:28:59 <LordAro> and ICU :p 16:29:02 <LordAro> and java 16:29:04 <LordAro> and... 16:29:39 <frosch123> didn't icu use ucs4? 16:29:47 <frosch123> (possibly equivalent to utf32) 16:33:08 <LordAro> reasonably certain icu's backend uses utf16 16:33:13 <LordAro> too old for utf32 16:33:38 <LordAro> (yes yes, s/utf16/ucs2, s/utf32/ucs4 where appropriate) 16:44:58 <milek7> have you seen quasselcore config file? 16:49:41 <milek7> http://i.imgur.com/RQakank.png 16:50:14 <frosch123> that looks exactly like the kdevelop project file 16:50:19 <frosch123> i guess they share some code 16:54:34 <LordAro> milek7: that is what you get for using quassel 17:02:18 *** glx has joined #openttd 17:02:18 *** ChanServ sets mode: +v glx 17:05:38 *** Progman has quit IRC 17:13:33 *** Wormnest has joined #openttd 17:18:15 *** debdog has quit IRC 17:23:08 *** debdog has joined #openttd 17:27:12 *** andythenorth has quit IRC 17:33:34 *** HerzogDeXtEr has joined #openttd 17:36:54 *** supermop has joined #openttd 17:36:55 *** supermop_home has quit IRC 17:44:03 *** gelignite has joined #openttd 17:55:04 <supermop_> to have pantographs randomly at either end of a tram 17:55:31 <supermop_> (trams in game never reverse, but to give the illusion that they do) 17:55:57 <supermop_> i need sprites for forward and rear panto graphs 17:56:38 <supermop_> assuming all pantograph elbows point in a similar direction, say towards the end of the tram they are on 17:57:02 *** Arveen2 has joined #openttd 17:57:21 <supermop_> the rear sprite would be positions differently based on how long the tram is 17:58:13 <supermop_> better to have separate rear panto sprites for 4, 5, 6, etc length trams 17:58:25 <supermop_> or the same and have separate templates ? 17:58:42 <supermop_> not sure which is more work 17:59:16 <supermop_> i guess the extra sprites increases grf size 18:00:54 <supermop_> i could use only old style pantographs that look the same each way 18:02:26 *** Arveen has quit IRC 18:04:16 *** andythenorth has joined #openttd 18:07:02 <andythenorth> such crashes :) https://bugs.openttd.org/index.php?string=Crash%3A 18:07:08 *** supermop_home has joined #openttd 18:09:36 *** supermop has quit IRC 18:15:31 <supermop_> what looks better - panto elbow forward or back? ive seen it both ways 18:16:08 <supermop_> i sort of like the jarring unexpectedness of elbow back 18:16:17 <supermop_> like a horse leg 18:16:31 <andythenorth> forward 18:16:41 <andythenorth> potato / potato tbh 18:16:54 *** cosmobird has joined #openttd 18:17:18 <frosch123> symmetric :p 18:17:44 <supermop_> frosch123: symmetrical pantographs would be too easy 18:17:46 <andythenorth> https://www.1000steine.de/de/gemeinschaft/forum/img/7161-1366895278.jpg 18:17:47 <andythenorth> forward 18:18:07 <supermop_> nice tgv 18:18:33 <supermop_> ive never seen a tram with different pantographs for different directions 18:18:50 <supermop_> have seen long trams with two poles 18:19:04 <V453000> fuck off andythenorth 18:19:08 <V453000> you make me want to model that into brix 18:19:09 <V453000> :D 18:19:10 <supermop_> where it would not be possible to turn the pole to the othe rside 18:19:20 <V453000> too awesome 18:19:22 <andythenorth> V453000: such BRIX 18:22:29 *** supermop_home_ has joined #openttd 18:22:33 <Wolf01> I wanted to make a lego trainset for brickland 18:22:47 <Wolf01> But I've never finished brickland 18:22:51 <andythenorth> :) 18:23:01 <andythenorth> let’s find some FS to close 18:23:19 *** supermop_home has quit IRC 18:30:34 *** Stimrol has joined #openttd 18:42:47 <frosch123> what's your next milestone? 18:42:57 <Wolf01> Down to 100 18:43:06 <frosch123> initially i wondered whether you would reach 100 unread emails 18:43:11 <frosch123> this morning you passed 150 18:43:19 <frosch123> :p 18:44:17 <Wolf01> I want a slave to do what I'm doing 18:45:35 <supermop_> andythenorth: do you have a good, two arm/symmetrical panto i can steal? 18:45:53 <frosch123> hah, symmetric! 18:46:12 <Wolf01> I could draw it for you 18:46:40 <Wolf01> \ 18:46:40 <Wolf01> <> 18:47:02 <Wolf01> Just use some immagination 18:47:42 <frosch123> maybe you can implement templates using pantographs 18:52:29 <andythenorth> frosch123: I am at 13k unread emails ;) 18:52:32 <andythenorth> it’s a good habit 18:53:31 <andythenorth> supermop_: pantographs in Road Hog are just sticks http://bundles.openttdcoop.org/road-hog/push/LATEST/docs/html/road_vehicles.html 18:54:00 <supermop_> what about the raven? maybe ill take that 18:54:08 <frosch123> last week i got an automated email at work, my email box was at 1.9/2 gb capacity 18:54:19 <frosch123> i didn't know there was a limit 18:54:49 <andythenorth> supermop_: http://dev.openttdcoop.org/projects/iron-horse/repository/entry/src/graphics/raven_0.png 18:55:43 <andythenorth> so do crashes really matter? o_O 18:56:00 <andythenorth> at work a crash can put my customer in court 18:56:08 <andythenorth> in OpenTTD….just reload your autosave? 18:56:34 <frosch123> depends how often you need to do it :) 18:57:04 <andythenorth> well I crash OpenTTD…a lot 18:57:20 <andythenorth> but the 33 crash reports…dunno, could some just be closed? 18:57:20 <frosch123> but you do it intentionally 18:57:44 <frosch123> don't close the icu one, i keep it as template to link duplicate reports 18:57:44 <andythenorth> https://bugs.openttd.org/index.php?string=Crash%3A 18:57:54 <andythenorth> I’m not closing any right now :) 18:58:02 <andythenorth> I have no justification 19:02:16 <crem> andythenorth: http://bundles.openttdcoop.org/firs/releases/LATEST/docs/html/get_started.html#firs-gameplay is a bit confusing. I believe there should be a step by step instruction. At least which exactly FIRS package to download (instead of "you can find it from bananas") and also what are the most basic/typical vehicle set that supports it (instead of "it won't be playable by default, but 19:02:18 <crem> you'll be able to find way to make it playable"). 19:03:42 <__ln__> hi Wolf01, greetings from latvia 19:04:15 <Alkel_U3> __ln__: are you traveling? 19:04:29 <crem> The "Bananas" name is a bit misleading too, as there's no mention of this word in openttd itself (is it an internal codename for the repository?). 19:04:40 <Alkel_U3> IIRC last time it was czechoslovakia 19:05:08 <Wolf01> Yeah, he's returning home 19:06:20 <andythenorth> crem: that’s useful thanks 19:06:28 <andythenorth> I often wonder about Bananaramas 19:06:37 <andythenorth> it’s not mentioned in OpenTTD at all 19:06:39 <andythenorth> so eh 19:06:49 <andythenorth> it’s only on the website http://bananas.openttd.org/en 19:07:01 *** supermop_home has joined #openttd 19:07:14 *** supermop_home_ has quit IRC 19:07:47 <Wolf01> andythenorth: in fact you should call it (online) content manager 19:08:08 <crem> On the website, if there would be a way to sort by download count, it would be also useful hint what to pick! 19:08:23 <crem> hm, maybe in a game it's possible.. 19:08:43 <planetmaker> crem: not really useful. As download count ~ age of content 19:08:54 <Wolf01> I usually don't rely much on the download count of things, I have particular tastes 19:09:00 <planetmaker> often-updated content then will show as unpopular 19:10:44 <__ln__> Alkel_U3: yes, returning home, changing plane at riga 19:11:38 <crem> I think that "online content manager" is better than just "content manager" as there's no mention of "manager" in the game either, only "online content". 19:20:16 <supermop_> andythenorth: hmm i had it in my mind that raven had red pantos but i guess i was wrong 19:20:47 <andythenorth> DLC 19:20:51 <andythenorth> like everything else :P 19:21:06 <andythenorth> and charge €1 per D/L, or €10 with support 19:21:19 <supermop_> micropayment to buy red pantographs for my locomotives? 19:21:27 <andythenorth> we’d make at least €100 / month 19:21:51 <supermop_> solid 1cc is free, each additional livery is 2 quid 19:22:01 <andythenorth> like some game I played 19:22:07 <andythenorth> Need for Speed 19:22:16 <andythenorth> pay to repaint your car 19:22:29 <supermop_> do you have to pay for gas? 19:23:12 <supermop_> diesel train: pay /month per locomotive for fuel 19:23:57 <supermop_> electric: pay 0 up front to wire your tracks plus ongoing fleetwide to run 19:25:23 <Alkel_U3> might as well use that weird force feedback device that draws blood 19:33:34 <supermop_> now to draw so roof greeble so the tops of diesel trams don't look so lonely 19:40:30 *** orudge` has quit IRC 19:43:29 <crem> Sorry for staying on the same topic. I've started a few game with FIRS enabled. On the map if I switch it in "industries" mode, there are two "coal mine"s, two "iron ore mine"s and two "still mill"s. Is that intended? 19:44:22 <frosch123> no :) 19:44:41 <frosch123> do you have some other newgrf enabled 19:45:08 <frosch123> if you find which, tell andy, so he can extend the compatibility check 19:45:13 <crem> Yes, OpenGFX+ for everyting. 19:45:20 <frosch123> remove opengfx+industries 19:45:25 <crem> ok :) 19:46:07 <frosch123> andythenorth: please add 4F472B33 to compatibility checks :) 19:46:18 <crem> Yesterday someone said that FIRS wouldn't be playable without opengfx+. Probably only vehicles is what I needed. 19:46:35 <frosch123> crem: yes, you need vehicles :) 19:46:40 <planetmaker> FIRS requires vehicles, yes 19:46:41 <frosch123> but there may only be one industry set 19:46:57 <frosch123> everything else is fine in multiple instances 19:46:57 <crem> vehicles and trains, right? 19:47:01 <planetmaker> but whatever choice, doesn't matter so much. It's just that the OpenGFX+ vehicles should transport everything 19:47:15 <planetmaker> well... ships maybe? planes? 19:47:28 <crem> There's no OpenGFX+ ships 19:47:32 <planetmaker> but there's no such thing as those in the OpenGFX theme, yes 19:47:38 <planetmaker> I recommend andy's own ship set 19:47:47 *** orudge has quit IRC 19:47:47 <crem> ahhhhhhhhh. 19:47:48 <planetmaker> FISH probably. or squid 19:47:51 *** orudge has joined #openttd 19:47:53 <crem> Your package system is a mess. :) 19:48:06 <crem> I just need a list of packages to install and play. 19:48:14 <crem> Just any arbitrary set that works. :) 19:48:17 <frosch123> planetmaker: i guess noone knows what it is names currently :) 19:48:24 <planetmaker> :D 19:48:34 <planetmaker> crem: well... it's hard to have any hard dependencies 19:49:19 <planetmaker> crem, usually it's a good idea: at most one NewGRF per type (trains, vehicles, ships, planes, industries, houses, tracks) 19:49:26 <planetmaker> you may use many object sets, though 19:49:47 <planetmaker> and when you use industry newgrf: then choose at least a train newgrf with cargo support 19:50:25 <crem> I installed one opengfx+ per type, and FIRS. Turned out I didn't need industries. :) Aand it seems I won't have planes and ships for FIRS, so I need something in addition to that 19:50:39 <frosch123> :) 19:51:25 <crem> That's simply not possible that someone will be able to set it up without reading irc/forums through. 19:51:50 <frosch123> i always wanted to write a guide 19:52:12 <frosch123> but that will inevitable upset some people :p 19:52:21 <crem> Curated presets are needed. :) 19:52:52 <andythenorth> frosch123: can you patch FIRS? o_O 19:52:55 <andythenorth> for 4F472B33 :P 19:53:14 <crem> It seems that none of ships packages explicitly say they are compatible with FIRS. 19:53:23 *** Progman has joined #openttd 19:53:28 *** synchris has quit IRC 19:53:37 <supermop_> all of andy's ships should work well with firs 19:54:22 <andythenorth> crem: I am a bit afk and can’t really read here, but the feedback on starting a FIRS game is useful 19:54:31 <frosch123> crem: it's save to assume that all vehicle sets in content download are compatible with firs 19:54:46 <crem> what's andy's ships? search for "Andy" doesn't seem to result in anything sensible.. 19:55:02 <andythenorth> FISH or Squid 19:55:29 <andythenorth> Unsinkable Sam is much better for gameplay, but the graphics are totally borked (not drawn yet) 19:55:36 <crem> But I mean will I be able to transport Milk with that? (I noticed milk factory among industries). 19:55:38 * andythenorth too many ships :P 19:56:03 <andythenorth> Squid should work 100% with FIRS 19:56:12 <andythenorth> also Road Hog and Iron Horse, and CHIPS stations 19:56:20 <frosch123> andythenorth: it's listed at the bottom 19:56:27 <frosch123> does that mean it was added recently? 19:57:33 <frosch123> 2017-07-16 :p 19:57:54 <andythenorth> http://dev.openttdcoop.org/projects/firs/repository/changes/src/incompatible_grfs.py 19:58:22 <crem> Ok, now to planes. :) Any recommendation? 19:58:28 <crem> well, planes are mostly for people anyway 19:58:34 <crem> so probably standard is ok 19:58:42 <frosch123> use av8, not av9 :p 20:01:51 <crem> There are four av8s. :) 20:02:12 <frosch123> av8 Aviators Aircraft Set 20:02:23 <frosch123> not the silly extra aircraft 20:02:47 <crem> Yes, with different versions. I need the latest, I guess. 20:03:15 <frosch123> 1.5x 20:03:31 <frosch123> hmm, or 2.x? 20:03:51 <frosch123> at some point the grf turns bonkers 20:04:22 <frosch123> but maybe av9 is a separate entry and av8 2.x is fine 20:07:07 *** supermop_home_ has joined #openttd 20:07:08 <crem> Is FIRS compatible with original_windows graphics set? For some reason I had OpenGFX selected even though I did have original_windows. 20:07:28 <crem> "Base graphics" is only UI elements, or also vehicles/industry? 20:07:33 <frosch123> the author plays with original graphics :) 20:07:46 <frosch123> but generally all base graphics are compatible with everything 20:09:08 <V453000> a lot of shit is drawn to fit with opengfx unfortunately 20:09:29 <frosch123> V453000: i thought it is drawn to fit zbase? :p 20:10:14 *** supermop_home has quit IRC 20:13:06 <crem> What are the "story book" and "goal list" buttons in the toolbar and why are they disabled? 20:13:21 <frosch123> they are for gamescripts with goals 20:14:05 <frosch123> don't bother for now :) 20:14:06 <andythenorth> FIRS looks bad with ogfx :) 20:14:20 <frosch123> i never noticed 20:15:48 <crem> In color scheme dialog, why are there two colors for every item? Changing the second doesn't seem to have any effect. 20:17:38 <frosch123> some vehicles will use both 20:18:28 <frosch123> set the first one to the dominant company color 20:18:44 <frosch123> and the second one to one that accompanies the first 20:18:52 <frosch123> contrast without clash 20:18:54 <crem> ok :) thanks 20:20:20 <crem> wow, mines now accept something! 20:20:27 <crem> namely engineering supplies. 20:20:45 <frosch123> which economy did you select? 20:20:54 <frosch123> i hope not "firs extreme" :p 20:21:24 <Wolf01> I would make firs extreme as default 20:21:29 <crem> where could I select that? 20:21:38 <Wolf01> Grf parameters 20:21:49 <frosch123> in newgrf settings where you added the grf, select the grf, and then there is a parameters button 20:22:05 <crem> ah! as if there were too few places to find settings! 20:22:31 <planetmaker> yeah, we should add a few more :P 20:22:52 <frosch123> we also need a "shuffle gui" setting 20:22:59 <frosch123> which randomly reorders the gui elements 20:22:59 <planetmaker> definitely 20:23:02 <Wolf01> That would be interesting 20:23:05 <crem> "game options" and "settings" look quite arbirary too, but I know that's for historical reasons. :) 20:23:15 *** gelignite has quit IRC 20:23:22 <frosch123> yes, we tried for years to remove one of them 20:23:24 <frosch123> still not done 20:23:35 <frosch123> but we removed difficulty settings and news settings :) 20:23:54 <planetmaker> and added newgrf parameter GUI :P 20:24:17 <crem> economy setting was "temperate basic", so I guess it's ok. :) 20:24:18 <frosch123> that was before that 20:24:23 <planetmaker> though technically that wasn't adding but making it accessible 20:24:24 <frosch123> crem: yup, sounds fine 20:24:27 <Wolf01> And transparency UI 20:25:23 <Wolf01> We need to move all those silly settigns to show things into transparency UI 20:25:44 <Wolf01> And move "full animation" to options 20:26:25 <frosch123> yeah, but we even failed to make a mockup of the new transparency gui :) 20:27:10 <Wolf01> Just add more buttons and a separatos 20:27:14 <Wolf01> *r 20:27:48 *** Biolunar has quit IRC 20:28:06 <frosch123> https://www.tt-forums.net/viewtopic.php?f=29&t=54262 <- at least 4 attempts there 20:29:00 <Wolf01> I don't like any of them :P 20:29:18 <crem> Extreme settings do look nice. You say I shouldn't start with that? It looks like I can just connect random industries and there will be cargo type that they need to be transfered. :) 20:30:23 <frosch123> crem: the other economies are designed by a human, and play-tested 20:31:20 <crem> ok, starting with basic 20:31:54 *** sim-al2 has joined #openttd 20:35:33 <supermop_> andythenorth: should i name this shit road candy? 20:35:54 *** debdog has quit IRC 20:36:06 *** supermop_home_ has quit IRC 20:39:44 <crem> https://translator.openttdcoop.org/project/firs doesn't open, says revoked certificate. And there's seemingly no way to ignore that warning. 20:39:48 <andythenorth> supermop_: why not? o_O 20:40:15 <supermop_> idk this thing doesn't deserve to take such a cool name? 20:40:34 <supermop_> also sounds illicit 20:40:53 <supermop_> like amphetemines for truckers 20:41:11 *** debdog has joined #openttd 20:41:29 <frosch123> crem: yes, it uses a certificate from that israelian authority which messed with their certification dates to circumvent security checks, and then was banned from all major browsers 20:41:49 <frosch123> or something like that 20:41:50 *** supermop has joined #openttd 20:43:20 <Cubey> I don't know about all browsers but there should be some way to click through the certificate warning 20:43:53 <Cubey> In Chrome for me it is hidden under a button labeled "advanced" 20:44:02 <crem> Everyone seems to be happy with certificates from https://letsencrypt.org/, which offers free certificates. (expiration is 3 months though, so need to set up a script to extend). 20:44:27 <Cubey> That's rather new isn't it? 20:44:59 <crem> I'm on dev channel of Chrome, so maybe in newer versions there's no way to bypass that. At least I cannot find the way to do that. 20:45:04 <Cubey> Hmm maybe not, seems to go back to 2014 20:45:36 <crem> Yes letsencrypt is ~1 year old. 20:46:09 <crem> I mean they start issuing certificate in 2016 I think. 20:46:19 <Cubey> Harmless certificate problems are so common that it would be very strange to have no way to bypass it whatsoever 20:46:47 <Cubey> Like I'm sure it's a very good thing to have an idiot-proof warning by default 20:47:26 <crem> Indeed old chrome can bypass it, but not new. 20:48:16 <Cubey> Oh I'm reading that there's a command line switch to ignore the error 20:48:47 <Cubey> But you wouldn't want that to happen all the time...why would they do this 20:49:59 <supermop_> hmm now its not showing up in my newgrf list for somereason 20:50:11 <supermop_> probably because my name is so stupid 20:50:31 <Cubey> crem does this work? https://stackoverflow.com/questions/35274659/using-badidea-word-to-bypass-chrome-certificate-hsts-error 20:51:50 <planetmaker> hm... we need to change certificates there? 20:51:54 <planetmaker> hm 20:52:08 <crem> yes, badidea works! 20:52:54 <frosch123> planetmaker: letsencrypt does not yet have wildcard certificates 20:53:11 <frosch123> planetmaker: but otoh there is apparently a debian package to create and renew them automatically 20:53:51 <planetmaker> problem is - iirc - that we somewhat need wildcards... or we're in for some serious reconfiguration 20:54:04 <planetmaker> or simply remove some web server aliases 20:54:17 <Cubey> It says here that they are going to introduce them in January 20:54:27 <Cubey> So you could change over in a few months 20:54:40 <Cubey> https://letsencrypt.org/2017/07/06/wildcard-certificates-coming-jan-2018.html 20:54:48 <planetmaker> dev.o.o/projects/nml -> nml.o.o or so is currently in place for some. And that depends on wildcards 20:55:02 <planetmaker> interesting 20:55:33 <frosch123> eints.o.o, hg.o.o, jenkins.o.o, ... 20:57:12 <Eddi|zuHause> how did we survive without cets.o.o? :p 20:57:39 <frosch123> we added eddi.o.o instead 20:57:56 *** FLHerne has joined #openttd 21:00:05 <frosch123> planetmaker: apparently ovh is a major sponsor of letsencrypt 21:00:12 <frosch123> so maybe they also have some automatism for that 21:00:14 *** debdog has quit IRC 21:00:34 <planetmaker> hm :) o.o is run on a hetzner server ,though :) 21:00:55 <planetmaker> for hysterical raisins really 21:01:06 <frosch123> hmm, were they not the same? 21:01:17 <frosch123> or did i confuse something? 21:01:18 <planetmaker> no, not really 21:01:30 <planetmaker> they're competitors 21:01:31 <frosch123> there was also soyoustart, which was essentially one of them 21:02:49 <planetmaker> soyoustart is OVH 21:03:08 <planetmaker> it's just a brand of them targeting the gaming community 21:03:36 <supermop_> ok diesel and steam trams working 21:03:37 <planetmaker> at some point they wanted us to switch (not the physical server but what we said what we run on) 21:03:43 <frosch123> well, i think my email is on hetzner... 21:03:58 <supermop_> and electric trams get random pantograph sides 21:05:09 <Wolf01> mode->mode.mode != _game_mode Mode-a-rama 21:07:19 <frosch123> planetmaker: i guess we do not really need a wildcard cert 21:07:29 <frosch123> it should be possible to just list all the domains 21:07:31 <supermop_> hmm steam smoke spawning in front of my steam tram 21:07:34 <frosch123> shouldn't be more than 10 21:08:11 *** debdog has joined #openttd 21:11:32 <frosch123> they support certificates for up to 100 subdomains 21:21:27 *** HerzogDeXtEr has quit IRC 21:23:26 <Wolf01> Ha! Game starts and exits immediately, I think I made some fuck up 21:24:46 <planetmaker> frosch123, yes... it would be possible, I guess... needs careful review of all the stuff on the proxy though 21:26:12 *** supermop has quit IRC 21:29:46 *** Progman has quit IRC 21:30:58 <Wolf01> Ha! Bug! Transmitters on desert have green tile 21:36:58 <supermop_> hmm my last diesel tram has just a bunch of ogfx bus sprites for each segment 21:36:59 *** supermop has joined #openttd 21:37:03 <supermop_> this seems wrong 21:37:05 <frosch123> Wolf01: there was a fs task for that 21:37:13 <frosch123> no idea whether andy closed it :p 21:37:32 <Wolf01> I'll slap him if he did it :P 21:37:53 <peter1138> letsencrypt is automated anyway 21:37:53 <Wolf01> BTW, I made that patch with the singleton 21:39:57 *** Stimrol has quit IRC 21:41:40 <andythenorth> Wolf01: I’m finding it now 21:42:38 <andythenorth> Wolf01: you’ll have to slap peter1138 https://bugs.openttd.org/task/6531 21:43:04 <Wolf01> Meh 21:43:08 <andythenorth> anyone else had long, slightly troubling forum PMs? 21:43:37 <andythenorth> probably just me then 21:44:19 <supermop_> i wonder if i am hitting some limit 21:44:40 <frosch123> andythenorth: i have not been on forums for three weeks :) 21:44:57 <frosch123> except for the things which were linked here 21:45:02 <frosch123> like tranparency gui earlier 21:45:12 <andythenorth> supermop_: what’s your highest vehicle ID? 21:45:22 <andythenorth> articulated units can’t have an ID > 16k or so 21:45:24 <supermop_> i got rid of ids 21:45:25 <frosch123> andythenorth: anyway, are people complaining you closed their tasks? :p 21:45:31 <andythenorth> nah, something else 21:45:37 <andythenorth> not worth exploring 21:45:52 <andythenorth> retreading of ancient long-dead history 21:46:06 <andythenorth> by someone with 10% of the story and a bee in their bonnet 21:46:08 <frosch123> aw, not even firs feature requests 21:46:16 <andythenorth> I redirect those to public forum 21:46:18 <andythenorth> ;) 21:46:27 <supermop_> the two trams that have this issue are both ones where ive tried to use a switch to detect drive on side 21:46:35 <andythenorth> supermop_: you probably just fucked up : 21:46:36 <andythenorth> :) 21:46:37 <supermop_> and change door opening accordingly 21:46:47 <andythenorth> BAD FEATURES hurt you :) 21:47:13 <supermop_> not sure what i wrote that its taking to mean 'draw a MPS Regal Centipede' 21:47:34 <andythenorth> how many of them have you got? 21:47:44 <andythenorth> sounds like your articulated switch is broken 21:48:09 <andythenorth> or you have a broken graphics chain 21:48:20 <andythenorth> have you tried turning OpenTTD on and off again? o_O 21:48:48 *** Wormnest has quit IRC 21:48:58 <supermop_> https://paste.openttdcoop.org/pjkfkjfys 21:49:07 <supermop_> 5 regals in a row 21:49:24 <andythenorth> how many should there be? 21:49:37 <andythenorth> is it a 5 unit tram? 21:49:48 <supermop_> yes 21:49:49 <supermop_> https://paste.openttdcoop.org/plvgspfdq 21:50:40 *** ToBeFree has joined #openttd 21:51:02 <supermop_> http://imgur.com/a/3TvcL 21:51:23 <andythenorth> same ID, different lengths eh 21:51:29 <andythenorth> such modern methods :) 21:52:13 <supermop_> idk if thats wrong but i do that for other trams without this issue 21:54:25 <supermop_> must be the drive side 21:54:44 <supermop_> i can comment it out, 21:54:54 <supermop_> but would have been nice to use it 21:59:30 <supermop_> hmm switch should be FEAT_GLOBALVARS 21:59:32 <andythenorth> it’s not wrong to change length like that 21:59:45 <supermop_> not FEAT_ROADVEHS 21:59:48 <Wolf01> https://gist.github.com/Wolfolo/d7cfc9f2018339453d14f62a9e6e26d6 >10 hours of work, and I think it's still a mess 21:59:56 <andythenorth> you have no default result, so probably no valid sprite 22:00:16 <supermop_> do i still need 'self' if it is for global vars 22:00:32 <andythenorth> action 2 chain probably just chokes somewhere if it’s an invalid var, can’t remember how it works 22:00:51 *** Hiddenfunstuff has quit IRC 22:00:56 <andythenorth> or returns a value that happens to match to the bus sprite 22:00:58 * andythenorth thinking 22:01:19 <andythenorth> supermop_: don’t know about SELF there, what do nml docs say? 22:01:40 <supermop_> for switches it says 'N/A' for feat_globalvars 22:01:44 <andythenorth> afaik, I’ve never used FEAT_GLOBALVARS 22:01:50 <andythenorth> new to me 22:01:51 <supermop_> https://newgrf-specs.tt-wiki.net/wiki/NML:Switch 22:01:59 <supermop_> idk if that means i can omit it 22:03:06 <supermop_> hmmm 22:03:08 <andythenorth> try it 22:03:34 <andythenorth> nmlc probably does the write thing when compiling 22:03:40 <andythenorth> right / write /s 22:03:56 <andythenorth> if the scope is N/A here, then nmlc probably sorts that out for you 22:04:44 <supermop_> nmlc says: "cannot refer to block 'switch_spriteset_mc5_tram' with feature 'FEAT_GLOBALVARS', expected feature is 'FEAT_ROADVEHS' 22:05:01 <andythenorth> ok 22:05:11 <andythenorth> what is this drive side var? 22:05:11 * andythenorth never encountered it 22:05:53 <andythenorth> Wolf01: you’re sorting out the game settings mess, for newgame / new scenario? 22:06:07 <Wolf01> Not yet 22:06:37 <supermop_> https://newgrf-specs.tt-wiki.net/wiki/NML:General#General_variables 22:06:53 * andythenorth looking 22:08:24 <andythenorth> supermop_: are you sure that it’s traffic_side that’s failing? 22:08:31 <andythenorth> you chain through more switches 22:08:32 <supermop_> nope 22:08:54 <supermop_> but thats the thing that is different for the two trams that have the problem 22:09:11 <supermop_> no other tram tries to use traffic side 22:12:12 <andythenorth> hmm 22:12:14 <andythenorth> bed for now 22:12:18 <andythenorth> sorry :) 22:13:43 *** frosch123 has quit IRC 22:14:37 *** chomwitt has joined #openttd 22:15:22 *** supermop has quit IRC 22:15:57 *** andythenorth has quit IRC 22:25:41 *** mescalito has quit IRC 22:29:57 <supermop_> Hmm well commenting out that switch fixed it 22:37:20 *** supermop has joined #openttd 22:44:42 *** cosmobird has quit IRC 22:47:50 *** debdog has quit IRC 22:53:42 *** debdog has joined #openttd 22:55:37 * Wolf01 sleeps too 22:55:40 <Wolf01> 'night 22:55:44 *** Wolf01 has quit IRC 23:08:31 *** FLHerne has quit IRC 23:08:48 *** FLHerne has joined #openttd 23:08:49 *** supermop has quit IRC 23:11:15 *** supermop has joined #openttd 23:15:18 *** FLHerne_ has joined #openttd 23:21:57 *** FLHerne has quit IRC 23:51:06 *** supermop has quit IRC 23:53:54 *** supermop has joined #openttd