Log for #openttd on 22nd August 2017:
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06:25:32  <andythenorth> o/
06:31:15  <V453000> yo humen
06:31:18  <V453000> how iz?
06:38:33  <andythenorth> iz woke up early
06:40:10  <andythenorth> such ow
06:49:57  <Alkel_U3> much early bird, very coffee
06:50:24  <V453000> iz problem
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08:16:46  <Wolf01> o/
08:17:10  <andythenorth> lo Warrigal
08:17:12  <andythenorth> or Wolf01
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09:20:24  <andythenorth> no global, public, saved searches in FS?
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09:33:38  <LordAro> needs more FS1.0
09:33:41  <LordAro> probably
09:38:45  <andythenorth> I bunched all the crashes
09:40:48  <LordAro> andythenorth: might help to shorten the urls (get rid of the empty params) and collate them somewhere
09:41:30  <LordAro> failing anything builtin
09:41:48  <andythenorth> plausible
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09:53:45  <Wolf01> No public saved searches in FS1.0
09:54:09  <Wolf01> I could try to make a plugin
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10:01:17  <Wolf01> Ok, no plugin system yet...
10:04:52  <peter1138> heh
10:05:00  <LordAro> lol
10:05:44  <Wolf01> There's a plugins folder but the only plugin is hardcoded
10:05:59  <Wolf01> That's not how it should work
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10:12:22  <Wolf01> Mmmh, there's some github support on FS1.0
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10:24:06  <Wolf01> Oh it's only for oauth access :(
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11:42:35  <Alkel_U3>
11:48:15  <Wolf01> Lol
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11:53:00  <peter1138> but that's people searching to see who's written it
11:55:43  <Wolf01> Topic of the day is: what is the best way to do what I want to do?
11:57:58  <Wolf01> I'm still sure the singleton object is good, not so sure about the global variable, One should GetInstance() every time he needs to use it, maybe storing the instance in a local variable for multiple uses
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12:14:47  <milek7> what's singleton?
12:14:55  <milek7> java-speak?
12:15:03  <Wolf01> An object which could be instanciated only once
12:17:25  <__ln__> singleton is one of the original design patterns, it's not java-speak
12:17:55  <Wolf01> Hi __ln__, where are you today?
12:18:52  <__ln__> vienna
12:20:35  <__ln__> going to fly home tonight
12:21:03  <Wolf01> Oh, won't you come here to get the biscuits I purchased for you?
12:22:25  <__ln__> i don't expect the plane to head south, sorry
12:23:02  <__ln__> though what do i need a plane for -- just had a red bull, their national drink
12:24:23  <andythenorth> singleton = root :P
12:24:41  <andythenorth> python, not unix root :P
12:24:56  <milek7> hm, throw in constructor if private static flag indicates that it is already instantaineted?
12:25:16  <milek7> something like GetInstance() is unnecessary imo
12:25:18  <Wolf01> Nope
12:25:38  <Wolf01> Private constructor
12:26:00  <milek7> but then you cannot construct it, not just cannot construct more than once
12:26:02  <Wolf01> Ok, you could do it even with a flag, but you can't return stuff in constructors
12:26:18  <milek7> exceptions
12:26:34  <Wolf01> Not what is wanted
12:26:38  <Wolf01> You can construct it with the GetInstance()
12:27:02  <Wolf01> GetInstance can call the private constructor
12:27:29  <Wolf01> Then you check internally if the instance already exists and return that one in the next calls
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12:41:05  <andythenorth> is cat?
12:41:38  <Wolf01> Is low self esteem day
12:41:46  <V453000> very cat
12:42:09  <andythenorth> such
12:42:21  * andythenorth scrolling unsplash
12:42:30  <andythenorth> long scroll
12:42:34  <andythenorth> such photos
12:55:55  <Flygon> Alkel_U3: Hahahahahaha.
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13:21:01  <Wolf01> Oh shit c++ confuses methods with variables
13:21:11  <Wolf01> *types
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13:30:39  <Wolf01> Now I understand why people used to prefix things
13:31:18  <andythenorth> we used to do that in Flash ActionScript
13:31:22  <andythenorth> recommended practice
13:31:28  <andythenorth> varNumLivesLeft
13:31:33  <Celestar> ?!?!
13:31:47  <andythenorth> listEnemyPositions
13:31:48  <Celestar> that's almost as bad as the shitty hungarian notation.
13:31:59  <andythenorth> it’s a distorted version of hungarian notation
13:32:04  <andythenorth> took me years to break the habit
13:32:05  <Wolf01> GameMode GameMode() { return this->game_mode; } overwrites GameMode type :P
13:32:15  <andythenorth> python is very anti- that kind of notation :)
13:32:30  <andythenorth> now I twitch if I write vehicles_list = []
13:32:36  <andythenorth> “BUT IT MIGHT NOT BE A LIST"
13:34:10  <andythenorth>
13:34:30  <andythenorth> FFS, what a shit language convention :)
13:35:00  <andythenorth> ActionScript is bollocks
13:35:07  <Celestar> flash just went from 'shitty' to 'abyssmal'
13:35:07  <andythenorth> it has one nice feature, which is trivial traversal of the object hierarchy
13:35:28  <andythenorth> which also shows up in some python things
13:35:47  <andythenorth> _self._parent._parent.x = 10
13:35:59  <andythenorth> oops, no ;
13:36:01  <Wolf01> That's the fault of typeless variables
13:36:04  <andythenorth> that will fail to compile :P
13:36:13  <andythenorth> Wolf01: ActionScript is typed :P
13:36:16  <andythenorth> strongly iirc
13:36:29  <andythenorth> oh, but not vars
13:36:31  <andythenorth> vars are just vars
13:36:37  <Wolf01> So, how can you put 10 into a string?
13:36:41  <Wolf01> Eh
13:36:48  <andythenorth> yeah no you’re right
13:36:54  * andythenorth checks
13:37:08  <Wolf01> PHP is the same shit
13:37:13  <Wolf01> But it's changing
13:37:40  <Wolf01> Also you can check what is contained on each var and put validations on every function
13:37:40  <andythenorth> they’re only strongly typed in ActionScript 3, but that’s post my time
13:38:24  <Wolf01> In PHP for example you can even pass a string as a valid array... and shit bricks
13:39:25  <Wolf01> And javascript same shit too, but everything is an object there
13:40:03  <andythenorth> Wolf01: try some python :D
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13:45:38  <_dp_> python is strongly typed, more than c even
13:45:43  <_dp_> but dynamically
13:47:15  <andythenorth> quack
13:47:53  <crem> quack++
13:49:11  <andythenorth> repr([ for duck in ducks if duck.quack])
13:49:28  <andythenorth> error: cannot be converted to string
13:49:37  <andythenorth> fricking duck 22
13:49:53  <andythenorth> ^ that’s probably not valid python
13:49:57  * andythenorth didn’t test
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13:50:32  <andythenorth> name error: ducks not found
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13:54:52  <V453000> every python is valid
13:54:56  <V453000> don't discriminate
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13:55:22  <V453000> python is just 2 tentacly eyes away from a slug
13:55:28  <V453000> no messing with that
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14:02:42  <Wolf01> A python isn't slimey
14:02:56  <andythenorth> dry
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14:02:57  <andythenorth> warm
14:03:08  <andythenorth> snakes are remarkably fun
14:03:10  <andythenorth> not slimey
14:04:19  <V453000> duh
14:04:27  <V453000>  /me has no words
14:04:59  <V453000> also I actually stopped being a lazy piece of trash and dove right into redoing them BRIX trees
14:05:10  <V453000> it's not going too badly but it's still a lot of them models :)
14:05:13  <V453000> no python aid there
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15:58:52  <Wolf01> Bah tedious work, >500 occurrencies to replace one by one
16:00:23  <andythenorth> write a code generator :P
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16:05:10  <frosch123> hmm, will the kdev4-project-generator patch work for kdev5?
16:06:02  <Wolf01> Quak
16:07:07  <Wolf01> andythenorth: I would replace all occurrencies with snippets, but then I would need to find again all the places where I can replace again the GetInstance with a local variable
16:10:22  <andythenorth> frosch123: presumably we could test that, with enough patience and VMs? :P
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16:24:25  <frosch123> who had the idea to put utf-16 values into inifiles by \x escaping all characters...
16:24:45  <LordAro> burn them
16:25:10  <frosch123> why does kdevelop use utf16 in the first place?
16:25:17  <frosch123> only windows-people use utf16
16:28:59  <LordAro> and ICU :p
16:29:02  <LordAro> and java
16:29:04  <LordAro> and...
16:29:39  <frosch123> didn't icu use ucs4?
16:29:47  <frosch123> (possibly equivalent to utf32)
16:33:08  <LordAro> reasonably certain icu's backend uses utf16
16:33:13  <LordAro> too old for utf32
16:33:38  <LordAro> (yes yes, s/utf16/ucs2, s/utf32/ucs4 where appropriate)
16:44:58  <milek7> have you seen quasselcore config file?
16:49:41  <milek7>
16:50:14  <frosch123> that looks exactly like the kdevelop project file
16:50:19  <frosch123> i guess they share some code
16:54:34  <LordAro> milek7: that is what you get for using quassel
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17:55:04  <supermop_> to have pantographs randomly at either end of a tram
17:55:31  <supermop_> (trams in game never reverse, but to give the illusion that they do)
17:55:57  <supermop_> i need sprites for forward and rear panto graphs
17:56:38  <supermop_> assuming all pantograph elbows point in a similar direction, say towards the end of the tram they are on
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17:57:21  <supermop_> the rear sprite would be positions differently based on how long the tram is
17:58:13  <supermop_> better to have separate rear panto sprites for  4, 5, 6, etc length trams
17:58:25  <supermop_> or the same and have separate templates ?
17:58:42  <supermop_> not sure which is more work
17:59:16  <supermop_> i guess the extra sprites increases grf size
18:00:54  <supermop_> i could use only old style pantographs that look the same each way
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18:07:02  <andythenorth> such crashes :)
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18:15:31  <supermop_> what looks better - panto elbow forward or back? ive seen it both ways
18:16:08  <supermop_> i sort of like the jarring unexpectedness of elbow back
18:16:17  <supermop_> like a horse leg
18:16:31  <andythenorth> forward
18:16:41  <andythenorth> potato / potato tbh
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18:17:18  <frosch123> symmetric :p
18:17:44  <supermop_> frosch123: symmetrical pantographs would be too easy
18:17:46  <andythenorth>
18:17:47  <andythenorth> forward
18:18:07  <supermop_> nice tgv
18:18:33  <supermop_> ive never seen a tram with different pantographs for different directions
18:18:50  <supermop_> have seen long trams with two poles
18:19:04  <V453000> fuck off andythenorth
18:19:08  <V453000> you make me want to model that into brix
18:19:09  <V453000> :D
18:19:10  <supermop_> where it would not be possible to turn the pole to the othe rside
18:19:20  <V453000> too awesome
18:19:22  <andythenorth> V453000: such BRIX
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18:22:33  <Wolf01> I wanted to make a lego trainset for brickland
18:22:47  <Wolf01> But I've never finished brickland
18:22:51  <andythenorth> :)
18:23:01  <andythenorth> let’s find some FS to close
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18:42:47  <frosch123> what's your next milestone?
18:42:57  <Wolf01> Down to 100
18:43:06  <frosch123> initially i wondered whether you would reach 100 unread emails
18:43:11  <frosch123> this morning you passed 150
18:43:19  <frosch123> :p
18:44:17  <Wolf01> I want a slave to do what I'm doing
18:45:35  <supermop_> andythenorth: do you have a good, two arm/symmetrical panto i can steal?
18:45:53  <frosch123> hah, symmetric!
18:46:12  <Wolf01> I could draw it for you
18:46:40  <Wolf01> \
18:46:40  <Wolf01> <>
18:47:02  <Wolf01> Just use some immagination
18:47:42  <frosch123> maybe you can implement templates using pantographs
18:52:29  <andythenorth> frosch123: I am at 13k unread emails ;)
18:52:32  <andythenorth> it’s a good habit
18:53:31  <andythenorth> supermop_: pantographs in Road Hog are just sticks
18:54:00  <supermop_> what about the raven? maybe ill take that
18:54:08  <frosch123> last week i got an automated email at work, my email box was at 1.9/2 gb capacity
18:54:19  <frosch123> i didn't know there was a limit
18:54:49  <andythenorth> supermop_:
18:55:43  <andythenorth> so do crashes really matter? o_O
18:56:00  <andythenorth> at work a crash can put my customer in court
18:56:08  <andythenorth> in OpenTTD….just reload your autosave?
18:56:34  <frosch123> depends how often you need to do it :)
18:57:04  <andythenorth> well I crash OpenTTD…a lot
18:57:20  <andythenorth> but the 33 crash reports…dunno, could some just be closed?
18:57:20  <frosch123> but you do it intentionally
18:57:44  <frosch123> don't close the icu one, i keep it as template to link duplicate reports
18:57:44  <andythenorth>
18:57:54  <andythenorth> I’m not closing any right now :)
18:58:02  <andythenorth> I have no justification
19:02:16  <crem> andythenorth: is a bit confusing. I believe there should be a step by step instruction. At least which exactly FIRS package to download (instead of "you can find it from bananas") and also what are the most basic/typical vehicle set that supports it (instead of "it won't be playable by default, but
19:02:18  <crem> you'll be able to find way to make it playable").
19:03:42  <__ln__> hi Wolf01, greetings from latvia
19:04:15  <Alkel_U3> __ln__: are you traveling?
19:04:29  <crem> The "Bananas" name is a bit misleading too, as there's no mention of this word in openttd itself (is it an internal codename for the repository?).
19:04:40  <Alkel_U3> IIRC last time it was czechoslovakia
19:05:08  <Wolf01> Yeah, he's returning home
19:06:20  <andythenorth> crem: that’s useful thanks
19:06:28  <andythenorth> I often wonder about Bananaramas
19:06:37  <andythenorth> it’s not mentioned in OpenTTD at all
19:06:39  <andythenorth> so eh
19:06:49  <andythenorth> it’s only on the website
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19:07:47  <Wolf01> andythenorth: in fact you should call it (online) content manager
19:08:08  <crem> On the website, if there would be a way to sort by download count, it would be also useful hint what to pick!
19:08:23  <crem> hm, maybe in a game it's possible..
19:08:43  <planetmaker> crem: not really useful. As download count ~ age of content
19:08:54  <Wolf01> I usually don't rely much on the download count of things, I have particular tastes
19:09:00  <planetmaker> often-updated content then will show as unpopular
19:10:44  <__ln__> Alkel_U3: yes, returning home, changing plane at riga
19:11:38  <crem> I think that "online content manager" is better than just "content manager" as there's no mention of "manager" in the game either, only "online content".
19:20:16  <supermop_> andythenorth: hmm i had it in my mind that raven had red pantos but i guess i was wrong
19:20:47  <andythenorth> DLC
19:20:51  <andythenorth> like everything else :P
19:21:06  <andythenorth> and charge €1 per D/L, or €10 with support
19:21:19  <supermop_> micropayment to buy red pantographs for my locomotives?
19:21:27  <andythenorth> we’d make at least €100 / month
19:21:51  <supermop_> solid 1cc is free, each additional livery is 2 quid
19:22:01  <andythenorth> like some game I played
19:22:07  <andythenorth> Need for Speed
19:22:16  <andythenorth> pay to repaint your car
19:22:29  <supermop_> do you have to pay for gas?
19:23:12  <supermop_> diesel train: pay /month per locomotive for fuel
19:23:57  <supermop_> electric: pay 0 up front to wire your tracks plus ongoing  fleetwide to run
19:25:23  <Alkel_U3> might as well use that weird force feedback device that draws blood
19:33:34  <supermop_> now to draw so roof greeble so the tops of diesel trams don't look so lonely
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19:43:29  <crem> Sorry for staying on the same topic. I've started a few game with FIRS enabled. On the map if I switch it in "industries" mode, there are two "coal mine"s, two "iron ore mine"s and two "still mill"s. Is that intended?
19:44:22  <frosch123> no :)
19:44:41  <frosch123> do you have some other newgrf enabled
19:45:08  <frosch123> if you find which, tell andy, so he can extend the compatibility check
19:45:13  <crem> Yes, OpenGFX+ for everyting.
19:45:20  <frosch123> remove opengfx+industries
19:45:25  <crem> ok :)
19:46:07  <frosch123> andythenorth: please add 	4F472B33 to compatibility checks :)
19:46:18  <crem> Yesterday someone said that FIRS wouldn't be playable without opengfx+. Probably only vehicles is what I needed.
19:46:35  <frosch123> crem: yes, you need vehicles :)
19:46:40  <planetmaker> FIRS requires vehicles, yes
19:46:41  <frosch123> but there may only be one industry set
19:46:57  <frosch123> everything else is fine in multiple instances
19:46:57  <crem> vehicles and trains, right?
19:47:01  <planetmaker> but whatever choice, doesn't matter so much. It's just that the OpenGFX+ vehicles should transport everything
19:47:15  <planetmaker> well... ships maybe? planes?
19:47:28  <crem> There's no OpenGFX+ ships
19:47:32  <planetmaker> but there's no such thing as those in the OpenGFX theme, yes
19:47:38  <planetmaker> I recommend andy's own ship set
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19:47:47  <crem> ahhhhhhhhh.
19:47:48  <planetmaker> FISH probably. or squid
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19:47:53  <crem> Your package system is a mess. :)
19:48:06  <crem> I just need a list of packages to install and play.
19:48:14  <crem> Just any arbitrary set that works. :)
19:48:17  <frosch123> planetmaker: i guess noone knows what it is names currently :)
19:48:24  <planetmaker> :D
19:48:34  <planetmaker> crem: well... it's hard to have any hard dependencies
19:49:19  <planetmaker> crem, usually it's a good idea: at most one NewGRF per type (trains, vehicles, ships, planes, industries, houses, tracks)
19:49:26  <planetmaker> you may use many object sets, though
19:49:47  <planetmaker> and when you use industry newgrf: then choose at least a train newgrf with cargo support
19:50:25  <crem> I installed one opengfx+ per type, and FIRS. Turned out I didn't need industries. :) Aand it seems I won't have planes and ships for FIRS, so I need something in addition to that
19:50:39  <frosch123> :)
19:51:25  <crem> That's simply not possible that someone will be able to set it up without reading irc/forums through.
19:51:50  <frosch123> i always wanted to write a guide
19:52:12  <frosch123> but that will inevitable upset some people :p
19:52:21  <crem> Curated presets are needed. :)
19:52:52  <andythenorth> frosch123: can you patch FIRS? o_O
19:52:55  <andythenorth> for 4F472B33 :P
19:53:14  <crem> It seems that none of ships packages explicitly say they are compatible with FIRS.
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19:53:37  <supermop_> all of andy's ships should work well with firs
19:54:22  <andythenorth> crem: I am a bit afk and can’t really read here, but the feedback on starting a FIRS game is useful
19:54:31  <frosch123> crem: it's save to assume that all vehicle sets in content download are compatible with firs
19:54:46  <crem> what's andy's ships?  search for "Andy" doesn't seem to result in anything sensible..
19:55:02  <andythenorth> FISH or Squid
19:55:29  <andythenorth> Unsinkable Sam is much better for gameplay, but the graphics are totally borked (not drawn yet)
19:55:36  <crem> But I mean will I be able to transport Milk with that? (I noticed milk factory among industries).
19:55:38  * andythenorth too many ships :P
19:56:03  <andythenorth> Squid should work 100% with FIRS
19:56:12  <andythenorth> also Road Hog and Iron Horse, and CHIPS stations
19:56:20  <frosch123> andythenorth: it's listed at the bottom
19:56:27  <frosch123> does that mean it was added recently?
19:57:33  <frosch123> 2017-07-16 :p
19:57:54  <andythenorth>
19:58:22  <crem> Ok, now to planes. :) Any recommendation?
19:58:28  <crem> well, planes are mostly for people anyway
19:58:34  <crem> so probably standard is ok
19:58:42  <frosch123> use av8, not av9 :p
20:01:51  <crem> There are four av8s. :)
20:02:12  <frosch123> av8 Aviators Aircraft Set
20:02:23  <frosch123> not the silly extra aircraft
20:02:47  <crem> Yes, with different versions. I need the latest, I guess.
20:03:15  <frosch123> 1.5x
20:03:31  <frosch123> hmm, or 2.x?
20:03:51  <frosch123> at some point the grf turns bonkers
20:04:22  <frosch123> but maybe av9 is a separate entry and av8 2.x is fine
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20:07:08  <crem> Is FIRS compatible with original_windows graphics set?  For some reason I had OpenGFX selected even though I did have original_windows.
20:07:28  <crem> "Base graphics" is only UI elements, or also vehicles/industry?
20:07:33  <frosch123> the author plays with original graphics :)
20:07:46  <frosch123> but generally all base graphics are compatible with everything
20:09:08  <V453000> a lot of shit is drawn to fit with opengfx unfortunately
20:09:29  <frosch123> V453000: i thought it is drawn to fit zbase? :p
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20:13:06  <crem> What are the "story book" and "goal list" buttons in the toolbar and why are they disabled?
20:13:21  <frosch123> they are for gamescripts with goals
20:14:05  <frosch123> don't bother for now :)
20:14:06  <andythenorth> FIRS looks bad with ogfx :)
20:14:20  <frosch123> i never noticed
20:15:48  <crem> In color scheme dialog, why are there two colors for every item? Changing the second doesn't seem to have any effect.
20:17:38  <frosch123> some vehicles will use both
20:18:28  <frosch123> set the first one to the dominant company color
20:18:44  <frosch123> and the second one to one that accompanies the first
20:18:52  <frosch123> contrast without clash
20:18:54  <crem> ok :) thanks
20:20:20  <crem> wow, mines now accept something!
20:20:27  <crem> namely engineering supplies.
20:20:45  <frosch123> which economy did you select?
20:20:54  <frosch123> i hope not "firs extreme" :p
20:21:24  <Wolf01> I would make firs extreme as default
20:21:29  <crem> where could I select that?
20:21:38  <Wolf01> Grf parameters
20:21:49  <frosch123> in newgrf settings where you added the grf, select the grf, and then there is a parameters button
20:22:05  <crem> ah! as if there were too few places to find settings!
20:22:31  <planetmaker> yeah, we should add a few more :P
20:22:52  <frosch123> we also need a "shuffle gui" setting
20:22:59  <frosch123> which randomly reorders the gui elements
20:22:59  <planetmaker> definitely
20:23:02  <Wolf01> That would be interesting
20:23:05  <crem> "game options" and "settings" look quite arbirary too, but I know that's for historical reasons. :)
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20:23:22  <frosch123> yes, we tried for years to remove one of them
20:23:24  <frosch123> still not done
20:23:35  <frosch123> but we removed difficulty settings and news settings :)
20:23:54  <planetmaker> and added newgrf parameter GUI :P
20:24:17  <crem> economy setting was "temperate basic", so I guess it's ok. :)
20:24:18  <frosch123> that was before that
20:24:23  <planetmaker> though technically that wasn't adding but making it accessible
20:24:24  <frosch123> crem: yup, sounds fine
20:24:27  <Wolf01> And transparency UI
20:25:23  <Wolf01> We need to move all those silly settigns to show things into transparency UI
20:25:44  <Wolf01> And move "full animation" to options
20:26:25  <frosch123> yeah, but we even failed to make a mockup of the new transparency gui :)
20:27:10  <Wolf01> Just add more buttons and a separatos
20:27:14  <Wolf01> *r
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20:28:06  <frosch123> <- at least 4 attempts there
20:29:00  <Wolf01> I don't like any of them :P
20:29:18  <crem> Extreme settings do look nice.  You say I shouldn't start with that?  It looks like I can just connect random industries and there will be cargo type that they need to be transfered. :)
20:30:23  <frosch123> crem: the other economies are designed by a human, and play-tested
20:31:20  <crem> ok, starting with basic
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20:35:33  <supermop_> andythenorth: should i name this shit road candy?
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20:39:44  <crem> doesn't open, says revoked certificate. And there's seemingly no way to ignore that warning.
20:39:48  <andythenorth> supermop_: why not? o_O
20:40:15  <supermop_> idk this thing doesn't deserve to take such a cool name?
20:40:34  <supermop_> also sounds illicit
20:40:53  <supermop_> like amphetemines for truckers
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20:41:29  <frosch123> crem: yes, it uses a certificate from that israelian authority which messed with their certification dates to circumvent security checks, and then was banned from all major browsers
20:41:49  <frosch123> or something like that
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20:43:20  <Cubey> I don't know about all browsers but there should be some way to click through the certificate warning
20:43:53  <Cubey> In Chrome for me it is hidden under a button labeled "advanced"
20:44:02  <crem> Everyone seems to be happy with certificates from, which offers free certificates. (expiration is 3 months though, so need to set up a script to extend).
20:44:27  <Cubey> That's rather new isn't it?
20:44:59  <crem> I'm on dev channel of Chrome, so maybe in newer versions there's no way to bypass that. At least I cannot find the way to do that.
20:45:04  <Cubey> Hmm maybe not, seems to go back to 2014
20:45:36  <crem> Yes letsencrypt is ~1 year old.
20:46:09  <crem> I mean they start issuing certificate in 2016 I think.
20:46:19  <Cubey> Harmless certificate problems are so common that it would be very strange to have no way to bypass it whatsoever
20:46:47  <Cubey> Like I'm sure it's a very good thing to have an idiot-proof warning by default
20:47:26  <crem> Indeed old chrome can bypass it, but not new.
20:48:16  <Cubey> Oh I'm reading that there's a command line switch to ignore the error
20:48:47  <Cubey> But you wouldn't want that to happen all the time...why would they do this
20:49:59  <supermop_> hmm now its not showing up in my newgrf list for somereason
20:50:11  <supermop_> probably because my name is so stupid
20:50:31  <Cubey> crem does this work?
20:51:50  <planetmaker> hm... we need to change certificates there?
20:51:54  <planetmaker> hm
20:52:08  <crem> yes, badidea works!
20:52:54  <frosch123> planetmaker: letsencrypt does not yet have wildcard certificates
20:53:11  <frosch123> planetmaker: but otoh there is apparently a debian package to create and renew them automatically
20:53:51  <planetmaker> problem is - iirc - that we somewhat need wildcards... or we're in for some serious reconfiguration
20:54:04  <planetmaker> or simply remove some web server aliases
20:54:17  <Cubey> It says here that they are going to introduce them in January
20:54:27  <Cubey> So you could change over in a few months
20:54:40  <Cubey>
20:54:48  <planetmaker> dev.o.o/projects/nml -> nml.o.o or so is currently in place for some. And that depends on wildcards
20:55:02  <planetmaker> interesting
20:55:33  <frosch123> eints.o.o, hg.o.o, jenkins.o.o, ...
20:57:12  <Eddi|zuHause> how did we survive without cets.o.o? :p
20:57:39  <frosch123> we added eddi.o.o instead
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21:00:05  <frosch123> planetmaker: apparently ovh is a major sponsor of letsencrypt
21:00:12  <frosch123> so maybe they also have some automatism for that
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21:00:34  <planetmaker> hm :) o.o is run on a hetzner server ,though :)
21:00:55  <planetmaker> for hysterical raisins really
21:01:06  <frosch123> hmm, were they not the same?
21:01:17  <frosch123> or did i confuse something?
21:01:18  <planetmaker> no, not really
21:01:30  <planetmaker> they're competitors
21:01:31  <frosch123> there was also soyoustart, which was essentially one of them
21:02:49  <planetmaker> soyoustart is OVH
21:03:08  <planetmaker> it's just a brand of them targeting the gaming community
21:03:36  <supermop_> ok diesel and steam trams working
21:03:37  <planetmaker> at some point they wanted us to switch (not the physical server but what we said what we run on)
21:03:43  <frosch123> well, i think my email is on hetzner...
21:03:58  <supermop_> and electric trams get random pantograph sides
21:05:09  <Wolf01> mode->mode.mode != _game_mode Mode-a-rama
21:07:19  <frosch123> planetmaker: i guess we do not really need a wildcard cert
21:07:29  <frosch123> it should be possible to just list all the domains
21:07:31  <supermop_> hmm steam smoke spawning in front of my steam tram
21:07:34  <frosch123> shouldn't be more than 10
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21:11:32  <frosch123> they support certificates for up to 100 subdomains
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21:23:26  <Wolf01> Ha! Game starts and exits immediately, I think I made some fuck up
21:24:46  <planetmaker> frosch123, yes... it would be possible, I guess... needs careful review of all the stuff on the proxy though
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21:30:58  <Wolf01> Ha! Bug! Transmitters on desert have green tile
21:36:58  <supermop_> hmm my last diesel tram has just a bunch of ogfx bus sprites for each segment
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21:37:03  <supermop_> this seems wrong
21:37:05  <frosch123> Wolf01: there was a fs task for that
21:37:13  <frosch123> no idea whether andy closed it :p
21:37:32  <Wolf01> I'll slap him if he did it :P
21:37:53  <peter1138> letsencrypt is automated anyway
21:37:53  <Wolf01> BTW, I made that patch with the singleton
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21:41:40  <andythenorth> Wolf01: I’m finding it now
21:42:38  <andythenorth> Wolf01: you’ll have to slap peter1138
21:43:04  <Wolf01> Meh
21:43:08  <andythenorth> anyone else had long, slightly troubling forum PMs?
21:43:37  <andythenorth> probably just me then
21:44:19  <supermop_> i wonder if i am hitting some limit
21:44:40  <frosch123> andythenorth: i have not been on forums for three weeks :)
21:44:57  <frosch123> except for the things which were linked here
21:45:02  <frosch123> like tranparency gui earlier
21:45:12  <andythenorth> supermop_: what’s your highest vehicle ID?
21:45:22  <andythenorth> articulated units can’t have an ID > 16k or so
21:45:24  <supermop_> i got rid of ids
21:45:25  <frosch123> andythenorth: anyway, are people complaining you closed their tasks? :p
21:45:31  <andythenorth> nah, something else
21:45:37  <andythenorth> not worth exploring
21:45:52  <andythenorth> retreading of ancient long-dead history
21:46:06  <andythenorth> by someone with 10% of the story and a bee in their bonnet
21:46:08  <frosch123> aw, not even firs feature requests
21:46:16  <andythenorth> I redirect those to public forum
21:46:18  <andythenorth> ;)
21:46:27  <supermop_> the two trams that have this issue are both ones where ive tried to use a switch to detect drive on side
21:46:35  <andythenorth> supermop_: you probably just fucked up :
21:46:36  <andythenorth> :)
21:46:37  <supermop_> and change door opening accordingly
21:46:47  <andythenorth> BAD FEATURES hurt you :)
21:47:13  <supermop_> not sure what i wrote that its taking to mean 'draw a MPS Regal Centipede'
21:47:34  <andythenorth> how many of them have you got?
21:47:44  <andythenorth> sounds like your articulated switch is broken
21:48:09  <andythenorth> or you have a broken graphics chain
21:48:20  <andythenorth> have you tried turning OpenTTD on and off again? o_O
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21:48:58  <supermop_>
21:49:07  <supermop_> 5 regals in a row
21:49:24  <andythenorth> how many should there be?
21:49:37  <andythenorth> is it a 5 unit tram?
21:49:48  <supermop_> yes
21:49:49  <supermop_>
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21:51:02  <supermop_>
21:51:23  <andythenorth> same ID, different lengths eh
21:51:29  <andythenorth> such modern methods :)
21:52:13  <supermop_> idk if thats wrong but i do that for other trams without this issue
21:54:25  <supermop_> must be the drive side
21:54:44  <supermop_> i can comment it out,
21:54:54  <supermop_> but would have been nice to use it
21:59:30  <supermop_> hmm switch should be FEAT_GLOBALVARS
21:59:32  <andythenorth> it’s not wrong to change length like that
21:59:45  <supermop_> not FEAT_ROADVEHS
21:59:48  <Wolf01> >10 hours of work, and I think it's still a mess
21:59:56  <andythenorth> you have no default result, so probably no valid sprite
22:00:16  <supermop_> do i still need 'self' if it is for global vars
22:00:32  <andythenorth> action 2 chain probably just chokes somewhere if it’s an invalid var, can’t remember how it works
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22:00:56  <andythenorth> or returns a value that happens to match to the bus sprite
22:00:58  * andythenorth thinking
22:01:19  <andythenorth> supermop_: don’t know about SELF there, what do nml docs say?
22:01:40  <supermop_> for switches it says 'N/A' for feat_globalvars
22:01:44  <andythenorth> afaik, I’ve never used FEAT_GLOBALVARS
22:01:50  <andythenorth> new to me
22:01:51  <supermop_>
22:01:59  <supermop_> idk if that means i can omit it
22:03:06  <supermop_> hmmm
22:03:08  <andythenorth> try it
22:03:34  <andythenorth> nmlc probably does the write thing when compiling
22:03:40  <andythenorth> right / write /s
22:03:56  <andythenorth> if the scope is N/A here, then nmlc probably sorts that out for you
22:04:44  <supermop_> nmlc says: "cannot refer to block 'switch_spriteset_mc5_tram' with feature 'FEAT_GLOBALVARS', expected feature is 'FEAT_ROADVEHS'
22:05:01  <andythenorth> ok
22:05:11  <andythenorth> what is this drive side var?
22:05:11  * andythenorth never encountered it
22:05:53  <andythenorth> Wolf01: you’re sorting out the game settings mess, for newgame / new scenario?
22:06:07  <Wolf01> Not yet
22:06:37  <supermop_>
22:06:53  * andythenorth looking
22:08:24  <andythenorth> supermop_: are you sure that it’s traffic_side that’s failing?
22:08:31  <andythenorth> you chain through more switches
22:08:32  <supermop_> nope
22:08:54  <supermop_> but thats the thing that is different for the two trams that have the problem
22:09:11  <supermop_> no other tram tries to use traffic side
22:12:12  <andythenorth> hmm
22:12:14  <andythenorth> bed for now
22:12:18  <andythenorth> sorry :)
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22:29:57  <supermop_> Hmm well commenting out that switch fixed it
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22:55:37  * Wolf01 sleeps too
22:55:40  <Wolf01> 'night
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