Log for #openttd on 28th August 2017:
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07:06:25  <andythenorth_> so did we move to github yet?
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10:06:58  <blocage> is therthere is a way to printf in openttd source ?
10:14:15  <_dp_> fprintf(stderr, ...) ?
10:18:25  <blocage> _dp_, I will try ^^
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10:32:16  <Wolf01> o/
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11:26:47  <blocage> _dp_, that's work, I do not know what stupid think I did
11:48:49  <Wolf01> You know what? I feel the genworld ui a bit confusing, for example the size VS edges parts
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12:25:07  <Wolf01> something like this maybe
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13:21:11  <_dp_> somehow all the videos on youtube about rust are incredibly boring :(
13:21:26  <Wolf01> Rust is incredibly boring
13:21:46  <Wolf01> I started to play it on my own, because I got tired of people
13:22:30  <_dp_> Wolf01, I mean ;)
13:22:47  <Wolf01> :|
13:23:06  <Wolf01> Still boring
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13:26:52  <_dp_> It's quite a promising language actually
13:27:44  <_dp_> Imo the first one that looks like it can actually beat c/c++
13:30:30  <_dp_> But in c++ you learn the basics and you can code. It will be a shitty code but you'll learn eventually
13:30:57  <_dp_> And in Rust you kind of have to learn all the complex stuff before you can write anything useful
13:32:48  <_dp_> like I get why oop sucks but wtf are traits and how am I supposed to use them
13:33:42  <_dp_> or borrow checker that doesn't let me pass variables around
13:36:17  <_dp_> It's cool that it's guaranteed to be safe but that's of no use if I can't get it to compile :p
13:36:49  <blocage> _dp_, it'ssafe because you are not allowed to do unsafe stuff
13:36:55  <Wolf01> Would you like it more to compile non working code?
13:37:17  <blocage> Wolf01, unsafe code, does not mean unworking code
13:38:28  <Wolf01> Asm and C exists for that, let it to them
13:38:34  <blocage> and there is probably a lot of safe code that you can't do,just because the compiler cannot figure out that they are safe
13:44:11  <LordAro> i mean, you can do unsafe stuff in rust
13:44:16  <LordAro> but it's explicitly unsafe
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14:54:32  <frosch123> LordAro: TrueBrain-Bot: <- is that the state of the discussion?
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15:00:55  <LordAro> still can't read paste :p
15:01:02  <LordAro> unless i curl it
15:01:06  <frosch123> :/
15:01:36  <frosch123>
15:01:45  <LordAro> ta :)
15:04:37  <Wolf01> Quak
15:12:43  <frosch123> LordAro: do you know how gitlab chat incorporates into the irc/discord "controversy" :p
15:14:33  <Wolf01> A friend of mine is bitching that he isn't able to use ottd with screen
15:14:47  <frosch123> what is "screen"?
15:15:20  <LordAro> GNU screen?
15:15:23  <Wolf01> Yes
15:15:32  <LordAro> i see
15:15:47  <Wolf01> He said that uses a different config than the one used when launching without screen
15:15:48  <frosch123> all coop servers run inside screen
15:15:52  <Alkel_U3> I use dedicated openttd in screen all the time
15:16:36  <frosch123> Wolf01: direct him/her to readme.txt, it lists all the search paths :)
15:16:40  <Alkel_U3> Wolf01: did he try whether by some black magic it would run in tmux?
15:17:18  <Wolf01> frosch123: he is asking me what the readme is saying line by line... it seem he is not able to understand it
15:17:36  <LordAro> i see no reason why running in a screen/tmux window would affect anything at all, for the dedicated server
15:17:38  <frosch123> translate it to italian?
15:18:02  <Wolf01> Also he is on fedora
15:18:15  <Wolf01> A good reason to slap him
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15:20:13  <Alkel_U3> "I need to run this game on my system, counting on your support" "Sure, I'll keep my fingers crossed for you"
15:20:24  <Wolf01> +1
15:22:41  <Wolf01> It took me 10 minutes to instruct him how to get rid of the "you need a baseset" error.
15:24:38  <Wolf01> Also he doesn't have patience
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15:26:32  <Alkel_U3> maybe he'd be happier with a remote X server
15:27:22  <Wolf01> He has this old computer which runs as a server, so he wants to put some dedicated servers on it
15:29:24  <Alkel_U3> hm, it's true that I can't think of a problem that would be blocking him from running it remotely in screen and wouldn't also interfere with running from window manager :-)
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15:30:06  <Alkel_U3> unless he seriously broke something in which case he needs a flamethrower ant start from scratch, probably
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15:32:29  <Wolf01> Ok, when he launched with screen the openttd.cfg disappeared *automagically* from the game folder
15:33:15  <Alkel_U3> I'm not saying flamethrover, but... flamethrower.
15:34:13  <Wolf01>
15:35:03  <Alkel_U3>
15:36:02  <LordAro> frosch123:
15:37:45  <frosch123> LordAro: "lack of self-hosted"? we did not want to host ourself, did we?
15:38:00  <frosch123> LordAro: the circleci advertisement on github lists it as free for open source
15:38:34  <frosch123> i did not verify that though :)
15:38:42  <LordAro> linux is free, osx is not, afaict
15:39:07  <frosch123> ok, interested in trying the gitlab ci?
15:40:16  <Wolf01> All the people here please lend me an hand because I need a huge facepalm
15:40:24  <LordAro> i can certainly give it a go
15:40:24  <Wolf01> He executed screen as root
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15:40:52  <Alkel_U3> Tactical facepalm primed! Fire! :D
15:41:18  <Alkel_U3> ok, not very seasoned linux user, I assume
15:41:21  <frosch123> time for new friends? :p
15:43:00  <Alkel_U3> echo > /etc/friends
15:43:51  <Wolf01> 
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15:54:17  <Wolf01> He changed the code of openttd-init now, to specify the path to ottd, because it was the "easiest solution"
15:55:31  <Alkel_U3>
15:56:39  <Alkel_U3> kinda reminds me of this recent gem
15:56:47  <Wolf01> XD
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15:58:26  <Wolf01> o/
15:58:29  <Alberth> o/
15:59:15  <Wolf01> Ahahahah now he can't reconnect to the server via ssh
15:59:32  <Alberth> :(
15:59:33  <Wolf01> Fucked up badly
16:00:04  <Alberth> playing with firewalls? :p
16:00:11  <Wolf01> No, ottd dedicated
16:00:47  <Alkel_U3> well, that escalated much faster than I anticipated
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16:10:07  <frosch123> Wolf01: did he set the server password via passwd?
16:10:23  <Wolf01> I'm asking it
16:10:56  <Wolf01> He ran the openttd-init with an error in the config, now he can't log on the server anymore
16:14:48  <Alkel_U3> does he have local access or does he have the server tucked away far away from current location?
16:15:28  <Wolf01> The server is at his home, but no way to use it locally
16:15:44  <Wolf01> He doesn't have a compatible display
16:16:15  <Alkel_U3> and no serial console enabled :P
16:16:47  <Alkel_U3> (that saved me from having to reflash my Cubieboard2 at least once)
16:17:12  <Wolf01> Eh
16:17:48  <Alkel_U3> well, he can still mount the HDD in another computer and try to repair configs from there :-)
16:18:03  <Wolf01> No other computer, just a laptop
16:21:20  <Alkel_U3> my old laptop had eSATAp so attahing internal HDDs was rather straightforward but I think this port is no longer popular (if it ever was)
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16:37:36  <Wolf01> Good, I think he fucked up badly
16:37:51  <Wolf01> "I'm done with the server today"
16:37:53  <Wolf01> XD
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16:38:24  <andythenorth_> o/
16:38:28  <Wolf01> o/
16:39:32  <andythenorth_> iz?
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16:39:54  <Wolf01> No
16:41:28  <LordAro> no
16:44:05  <andythenorth_> ok
16:44:10  <andythenorth_> haz?
16:45:50  <LordAro> yes
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16:52:57  <LordAro> frosch123: my gitlab guy says the following:
16:53:14  <LordAro> there's no OSX or windows runners available, even if you want to pay for them
16:53:33  <LordAro> you can register your own runners and have them pick up builds tagged windows, osx, etc, if you've got the hardware though
16:53:41  <LordAro> (While still using the free ones for everything else)
16:54:27  <frosch123> ok, in summary: there is no osx compile farm on either gitlab or circleci?
16:54:38  <LordAro> not trivially
16:55:17  <LordAro> gitlab - not hosted, circleci - not free and very different to the 2.0 container based stuff they have for linux (for now, at the very least)
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16:55:43  <LordAro> "we do have bamboo integration, if they wanted to move a piece at a time"
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16:56:04  <planetmaker> means we can serve it bamboo clients?
16:56:11  <planetmaker> hello :)
16:56:12  <LordAro> i'd imagine so
16:56:14  <LordAro> o/ :)
16:56:45  <planetmaker> that sounds like a nice thing at least for transition... we have them
16:57:00  <frosch123> no, they would still have to run on our hardware, right?
16:57:08  <LordAro> basically, yeah
16:57:12  <frosch123> with bamboo integration they do not mean them running the containers
16:57:28  <LordAro> how cheap can OSX hosting get?
16:57:38  <frosch123> so, it seems there is no way around maintaining a custom compile farm
16:57:55  <LordAro> at least partially
16:58:09  <LordAro> but if you're doing partially, might as well do the whole thing
16:58:20  <frosch123> LordAro: the more sites are involved the harder it is to admin
16:58:38  <LordAro> perhaps, but everything we're talking about now is less than it is currently
16:59:22  <planetmaker> yeah... admin work is a PITA
16:59:40  <LordAro> /month :/
16:59:58  <LordAro> i can't imagine the admin work (once it's setup and working) would be all that significant
16:59:58  <planetmaker> he... doesn't sound exactly inviting
17:00:13  <frosch123> LordAro: anything more than a vserver is too expensive
17:00:43  <planetmaker> are we pondering to let go of our dedicated server?
17:01:05  <LordAro> planetmaker: hmm?
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17:01:52  <planetmaker> well... with the CF possibly gone, and the repo, too.. there's mostly wiki - and bananas, and master server...
17:01:52  <frosch123> planetmaker: the main goals are new compile farm and some git platform with pull-requests instead of svn and fs
17:02:04  <planetmaker> aye
17:02:14  <frosch123> but yes, if we can get the compile farm externally, we can possibly downgrade to vserver
17:02:47  <planetmaker> how does pull requests relate to bug tracker?
17:03:05  <planetmaker> that's included basically in what we see at github and also gitorius, yes?
17:03:12  <frosch123> planetmaker: github/gitlab have everything integrated, repository, issue tracker and code review
17:03:17  <planetmaker> *gitlab
17:03:26  <planetmaker> good :)
17:03:30  <frosch123> gitorius :o
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17:04:13  <frosch123> oh, that was even a thing once
17:04:24  <planetmaker> yup
17:04:30  <planetmaker> incorporated in gitlab meanwhile
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17:05:36  <frosch123> hmm, osx vserver do not seem to exist
17:06:13  <frosch123> so, back to
17:06:20  <frosch123> does anyone know what that does? :p
17:07:12  <LordAro> magic involving cross compiling
17:08:02  <planetmaker> yeah... that's a OSX toolchain cross-compiled to run on x64 system
17:08:30  <planetmaker> but you knew that, too ;)
17:08:45  <LordAro> it's certainly doable with more modern versions than what's done currently
17:08:48  <LordAro> but still... ew
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17:11:45  <frosch123> sounds like i need a vm to try some docker tutorials :p
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17:23:03  <andythenorth_>  do we have goals again? :)
17:25:19  <andythenorth_> frosch123 new issue tracker or you want to keep FS?
17:26:01  <frosch123> <- new summary of options, i guess self-hosted stuff is back in town
17:26:34  <frosch123> andythenorth_: i certainly want to archive fs data for commit-reference
17:26:58  <andythenorth_> meh to full atlassian
17:26:58  <frosch123> i am definitely against mail-list-based trackers, but they were not even suggested :p
17:27:20  <andythenorth_> i am a satisfied paying bitbucket user, but eh
17:27:42  <frosch123> i have hardly experience with gitlab or github, so they are potato/potato to me
17:27:50  <andythenorth_> same
17:28:23  <andythenorth_> 'github won' definitely applies, but when I use github I don't love it
17:29:01  <andythenorth_> os x build - could just pay for an os x compile environment :p
17:29:20  <andythenorth_> get OS X users to patreon fund it
17:30:14  * andythenorth_ afk again, but services where other people get the down notifications are better :)
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17:37:21  <andythenorth_> frosch123 interesting read
17:37:30  <frosch123> <- that's the type of thing that makes gitlab weird
17:37:43  <frosch123> the self-hosted community edition does not allow to link between issues? wtf?
17:38:23  <andythenorth_> special :)
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17:38:57  <andythenorth_> accidentally crippled or deliberate? o_O
17:39:18  <frosch123> <- the other features sound irrelevant
17:39:53  * andythenorth_ doesn't know how github tracker works
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17:40:31  <andythenorth_> one if the github vs. gitlab pages said that on github only those with repo access can manage issues
17:40:42  <frosch123> andythenorth_: problem with most comparisions is that they seem to assume web-projects
17:41:07  <frosch123> so they all say "gitlab has ci", which was just disproven
17:41:18  <andythenorth_> i am on my phone so I can't test in my openttd fork
17:41:39  <frosch123> shall i create some issues for nrt? :p
17:41:41  <andythenorth_> actually I probably could but won't :
17:41:52  <andythenorth_> frosch123: try it :p
17:42:00  <andythenorth_> wolf01 has a fork too
17:42:08  <andythenorth_> get your own :)
17:42:43  <andythenorth_> i would have pushed git harder, but i didn't want to annoy those who prefer hg :)
17:42:57  <frosch123> apparently git has won by 2012
17:43:32  <andythenorth_> that's roughly when we dropped svn at work
17:44:10  <andythenorth_> we picked some losing tech previously so now we try really hard to pick the winnig option :)
17:45:19  <Wolf01> You can CI with travis on github
17:45:25  <Wolf01> I should try it
17:46:11  <frosch123> that only does java
17:46:19  <frosch123> i already checked all the advertisement :p
17:46:21  <andythenorth_> we already CI from github
17:46:42  <andythenorth_> just we don't think out CF is survivable :)
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17:47:57  <andythenorth_> cross-compiling CI is not widely advertised commercial service
17:48:05  <frosch123> github interlinks issues when mentioned in a comment
17:48:12  <andythenorth_> yup
17:48:26  <frosch123> i can't imagine a self-hosten gitlab not doing that... maybe they mean something else?
17:48:33  <andythenorth_> doesn't everything?
17:48:47  <andythenorth_> does that
17:49:01  <frosch123> anyway, since external ci is failure, we can go back to the initial goal to upgrade the compile farm :)
17:49:13  <frosch123> the rest were only related goals which came up
17:49:54  <andythenorth_> in order, hosted CI seems to be 70% php/ruby/python/css, 20% iOS, 10% Android
17:50:19  <andythenorth_> probably c++ shops don't allow it off their LAN
17:50:42  <andythenorth_> surprising how many people still have svn box under a desk :p
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17:51:44  <milek7> gitlab also links issue ids
17:52:01  <milek7> these 'related issues' looks like weird tags
17:52:10  <andythenorth_> bbl
17:52:37  <frosch123> milek7: yes, but  does self-hosted gitlab also do that?
17:52:50  <frosch123> <- sounds like it doesn't
17:53:59  <LordAro> frosch123: the self hosted software is no different to
17:54:34  <milek7>
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17:55:18  <frosch123> LordAro: so is that about page complete nonsense?
17:56:35  <LordAro> i'll refine - the free hosted version is no different to the community edition
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17:57:03  <milek7> there aren't any osx cross-compilers in docker package?
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18:08:11  <Wolf01> <frosch123> that only does java <- it looks it does a long list of languages
18:09:48  <frosch123> Wolf01: <- only linux
18:10:06  <frosch123> hmm some "os x" comments in the middle
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18:12:14  <LordAro> i don't like travis
18:12:39  <LordAro> it only has 2 images (ubuntu 12.04 & 14.04) and they rarely get updated
18:12:54  <milek7>
18:13:04  <milek7> it seems to have os x
18:13:20  <milek7> but anyway travis don't host artifacts
18:25:17  <Wolf01> heh... mine it is not a buildable project... It won't work
18:26:56  <Wolf01> If you’re using other test frameworks the process is similar. Please note that the MSTest framework is not supported, as it only works on Windows/Visual Studio.
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20:03:00  <idl0r> is there anything you guys would say is a must have addon/extension?
20:05:17  <frosch123> heqs and fish have no competition
20:05:36  <frosch123> but they cover areas which are not used by everyone
20:07:49  <idl0r> fish 2?
20:07:55  <idl0r> or fish ship set?
20:07:58  <idl0r> or both? :D
20:08:02  <frosch123> not both
20:08:04  <frosch123> either is fine
20:11:24  <V453000> RENDAR :> Chances are I might have arctic trees finished
20:11:30  <V453000> bad news is every other climate has more of them XD
20:11:53  <V453000> well not toyland
20:12:02  <frosch123> well, they are no frozen yeti
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20:12:22  <frosch123> but the white hats are kind of cute
20:12:34  <frosch123> do you already have idea for desert trees?
20:12:39  <frosch123> though iirc there is only one :/
20:13:00  <V453000> there are 2 cacti
20:13:16  <V453000> idk yet
20:13:28  <V453000> the more scary part is the 18 types of tropic trees
20:13:34  <V453000> + 2 cacti
20:13:37  <frosch123> i guess in earlier sets you would just have used a yeti with a sunshade
20:13:45  <V453000> XD
20:13:47  <V453000> XD
20:13:56  <V453000> maybe
20:14:08  <V453000> currently I don't have a yeti there, basically for software migration reasons
20:14:13  <V453000> but I might re-add them
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20:15:59  <frosch123> i guess a pineapple would make a nice tropic tree
20:16:29  <frosch123> brown/yellow trunk, something green on top
20:16:36  <V453000> I have many sketches but let's see what becomes reality
20:16:44  <frosch123> maybe durians
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20:17:36  <frosch123> <- yeti holding signs
20:21:30  <V453000> ._.
20:23:29  <frosch123> alterenatively you could define rainforest as zerg creep
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20:46:36  <_3298> frosch, did you see the split-in-two version of my window placement patch (FS#5451) yet? yesterday (before the split) you seemed to be interested in it, but i didn't see a reaction / question after that
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20:48:03  <frosch123> yes, i saw it, looks good
20:53:32  <_3298> note that i spotted an indentation issue in the patch about child window placement afterwards. that shouldn't go into trunk like that (line 1636 after applying) if you intend to push it
20:56:20  <frosch123> i'll fix it
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21:19:09  <V453000> isn't andythenorth sleeping?
21:19:23  <andythenorth> is it?
21:19:31  <V453000> iz
21:19:32  <V453000>
21:20:34  <andythenorth> such snowline
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21:21:51  <andythenorth> nice eh V453000
21:22:10  <V453000> it will still get some love but I am quite happy with it tbh
21:22:47  <andythenorth> can’t ask for more
21:23:35  <V453000> well you can ask for anything :P
21:25:09  <andythenorth> ponies for the fields?
21:25:42  <V453000> :D I don't know, but no fields for this version
21:25:44  <V453000> it's already much
21:25:52  <V453000> If something then I would do river edges probably
21:25:54  <V453000> but nah, later
21:26:00  <V453000> I hate rivers anyway
21:26:04  <V453000> iz consistent XD
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21:31:58  <andythenorth> 400 FS eh :)
21:32:10  <andythenorth> someone has been busy closing them while I was away
21:39:55  <andythenorth> V453000: how doing desert trees?
21:40:00  <andythenorth> same but different?
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21:58:49  <andythenorth> such bed
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22:53:46  <Wolf01> Alkel_U3: my friend found what happened, he installed amahi and something fucked up with that and reset the network interface to some old configuration...
22:56:13  <Alkel_U3> well, now he can start towards another fuckup :-)
22:56:38  <Wolf01> He decided to move to debian
22:57:48  <Alkel_U3> I think that is sane
22:59:41  <Alkel_U3> Also I should not keep forgetting to disconnect my relay client on phone when trying to fall asleep :-)
22:59:55  <Wolf01> Ahah
23:00:10  <Wolf01> Put phone on quiet hours mode
23:00:17  <Alkel_U3> That's kinda my fuckup
23:00:43  <Wolf01> I think I'll watch 2 more star trek episodes
23:01:47  <Alkel_U3> I'll probably have to install extra app for that, this is Android 5 with touchwiz
23:03:29  <Alkel_U3> Nothing fancy but still sure am glad it's at least that. It doesn't fewl that much a step backwards after getting used to 6
23:04:09  <Wolf01> Never used android >4.0
23:07:08  <Alkel_U3> I used to dislike it but I changed mind with 6
23:08:17  <Alkel_U3> Ok, Alkel sleeping, scene 1, take 2 :-)
23:08:41  <Alkel_U3> Merry Christmas.
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