Log for #openttd on 5th September 2017:
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06:40:04  <andythenorth> o/
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07:24:05  <peter1138> \o
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08:06:55  <andythenorth> so does anyone ever place specific tree types in game?
08:07:00  <andythenorth> or just ‘random trees'?
08:09:45  <V453000> I think mostly random
08:10:20  <V453000> I think that menu is quite pointless in fact, for scenario editor sure
08:10:37  <V453000> but for normal playing you don't care which type it is
08:10:40  <V453000> and random is nicest
08:10:47  <andythenorth> $someone probably cares
08:10:54  <andythenorth> but my NoTrees spec doesn’t support it
08:11:04  <andythenorth> shitload more random or deterministic, but newgrf decides
08:11:08  <andythenorth> not player
08:11:32  * andythenorth thinks 256 possible combinations or so per tile
08:11:40  <andythenorth> not going to look good in a menu
08:18:16  * FLHerne has never, ever even considered building specific tree types
08:18:26  <FLHerne> It's pointless anyway, because they grow extra ones
08:21:26  <andythenorth> you know that somewhre, someone’s game will be ruined forever if that menu went away
08:21:56  <V453000> I would say this really is no big deal
08:24:52  <andythenorth> imagine removing a feature and *nobody* complained
08:24:52  <peter1138> i do it
08:25:00  <peter1138> plant specific trees, that is
08:25:01  <andythenorth> somehow it’s worse to have a feature nobody used
08:25:09  <andythenorth> peter1138: which one is your favourite?
08:25:25  <andythenorth> and are they in minecraft? o_O
08:25:29  <peter1138> depends what else is around!
08:25:35  <peter1138> haha
08:25:44  <peter1138> oak, silver birch, JUNGLE
08:25:48  <V453000> XD gg\
08:26:04  <andythenorth> Jungle is Massive
08:30:35  <andythenorth> hmm
08:30:41  <andythenorth> why doesn’t the tree palette work?
08:31:15  <andythenorth> the first drag builds the tree I want
08:31:21  <andythenorth> any over-dragging is random
08:33:15  <V453000> it's not random
08:33:24  <V453000> I have a table which ID goes where
08:33:30  <andythenorth> iz rules?
08:33:35  <andythenorth> but it’s anti-player
08:33:41  <andythenorth> I chose the nice green pointy tree
08:33:53  <V453000> hm I have it only for arctic trees
08:34:21  <andythenorth> cba to make screenshot
08:34:23  <andythenorth> seems random though
08:34:26  <andythenorth> in temperate
08:34:36  <V453000> hm
08:34:50  <V453000> well there is some randomness
08:34:56  <V453000> but there are some rules
08:35:42  <V453000>
08:36:14  <V453000> the IDs are numbers of tree sprite locally, not in whole openttd
08:36:40  <andythenorth> new rule #1 for making spec
08:36:49  <andythenorth> - know how game actually works :P
08:37:28  <V453000> XD
08:37:41  <andythenorth> bbl
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09:33:51  <_dp_> o/
09:34:00  <crem> \o
09:34:16  <_dp_> andythenorth, I place birch trees sometimes, it's and easy way to detect rainforest tiles in tropic
09:34:24  <_dp_> and you need rainforest for lumber mills
09:35:38  * andythenorth wondering trees are just objects
09:35:43  <_dp_> though it probably was before I made industry placing overlay
09:35:55  <andythenorth> industry placing overlay? o_O
09:36:31  <_dp_> andythenorth, in citymania client when funding industry you can enable overlay that shows where it's allowed to be
09:37:16  <_dp_> and it skips terrain check since that's usually easily fixable
09:39:55  <_dp_> or should I say terrain height check, coz it keeps some other like water and rainforest
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09:56:51  <andythenorth> new bug eh? :)
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10:17:57  <longrin> hi , is there a way to create new player images ?
10:20:18  <longrin> you know , the manager picture "company information" tab
10:22:13  <andythenorth> only from the available combinations
10:22:15  <andythenorth> not new ones
10:22:20  <andythenorth> there’s a forum thread about it somewhere
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10:24:58  <longrin> would be great if could find the link. i've searched the net but got just foo
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10:26:04  <Wolf01> o/
10:26:23  <andythenorth> longrin:
10:26:28  <longrin> i'm not afraid to build my own binary as i had to do this anyway for my solaris workstation
10:27:36  <longrin> andythenorth: this side has a database error right now. i'll have a look at it later. thanks.
10:27:40  <longrin> site
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11:31:32  <Wolf01> Mmmh, DO_FULL_DETAIL is used *ONLY* for railway fence
11:35:06  <Wolf01> No, street lamps/trees too
11:52:25  <Wolf01> Why is _display_opt reset when loading newgrfs?
11:52:54  <andythenorth> Wolf01: looks like frosch pushed some NRT
11:53:00  <Wolf01> :o
11:53:13  <Wolf01> In NRT or trunk?
11:53:21  <andythenorth> in NRT
11:53:35  <Wolf01> Good, maybe he fixed the problem
11:55:53  <Wolf01> newgrf.cpp L:9175 LoadNewGRF() it resets _display_opt and restores it back after, I think the only option really required to reset is the full animation
11:58:49  <Wolf01> But even that... why?
12:00:54  <Wolf01> andythenorth: I think he started to work on NRTBGT
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12:43:02  <peter1138> o_O
12:43:07  <peter1138> fix it
12:44:00  <Wolf01> Yeah, I read it this morning
12:44:17  <Wolf01> It's all my fault, I'm not buying lego
12:49:14  <V453000> XD
13:01:48  <andythenorth> I have stopped mostly
13:02:22  <andythenorth> I think Lego had a massive boost from AHOLs buying a lot
13:02:30  <andythenorth> and then there was too much
13:02:31  <andythenorth> also
13:02:43  <andythenorth> who buys a £200 Lego set, seriously
13:02:51  <Wolf01> I was used to
13:03:11  <__ln__> Wolf01: that's a pound sign, not lira
13:03:24  <Wolf01> Still 240€
13:03:37  <andythenorth> no fricking way
13:03:42  <andythenorth> and then it takes up space in my house
13:04:08  <Wolf01> Yay, the new transparency toolbar is nice
13:04:15  <Wolf01> Also, it works
13:04:48  <andythenorth> just no
13:05:08  <andythenorth> and very very very no
13:05:17  <Wolf01> I stole it from UK with 20% discount
13:05:45  <Wolf01> The day after it was 35% -_-'''
13:06:05  <Wolf01> Porsche is a no
13:06:23  <Wolf01> I purchased it at half the price because I needed to use the VIP points
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13:17:49  <Wolf01>
13:19:08  <Wolf01> I moved all the display options to _transparency_opt and got rid of _display_opt, full animation is on it's own variable
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13:20:45  <Wolf01> I also noticed that full animation does not stop newgrf industries smoke and other animations, but that's a vanilla problem
13:22:50  <andythenorth> yeah, it’s just the blitter
13:22:54  <andythenorth> it’s misleadingly titled
13:23:19  <andythenorth> it means ‘frame based animation AND blitter animation’
13:23:38  <andythenorth> the opposite of ‘full animation’ is partial animation
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13:30:20  <Wolf01> I don't know if I really want to change the toolbar caption and the dropdown item label which opens the transparency UI
13:31:15  <Wolf01> BTW, if you want to try it and see if it's more comfortable than the old dropdown:
13:33:47  <andythenorth> might try tonight :)
13:39:55  <Wolf01> You can use it in your patchpack ;)
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14:23:53  <_3298> <Wolf01> I moved all the display options to _transparency_opt and got rid of _display_opt, full animation is on it's own variable <-- you could've had that for free, I have a four-year-old patch for that
14:24:51  <Wolf01> I was bored anyway
14:31:51  <_3298> somewhat old version attached here: - maybe I should upload a more up-to-date one, I'm still keeping it current in my local repo
14:32:23  <_3298> feel free to grab inspiration and/or code from it
14:33:08  <Wolf01> I've already done it, no more work needed
14:33:34  <_3298> okay, that's fine too :)
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14:38:59  <_3298> btw, i moved the track reservation overlay into the transparency window too
14:39:33  <_3298> that position makes more sense than somewhere in the advanced settings
14:40:55  <Wolf01> That could be interesting
14:46:05  <_3298> I also found the interaction between the signs transparency option and the signs/station names/town names display options confusing, so I distributed the transp.option's functions onto the display options while moving them into the transparency window
14:53:35  <_3298> compared to my (slightly eccentric) vision for the transparency window, yours seems rather tame
14:53:55  <_3298> let's hope that it makes it into trunk, unlike mine
14:54:32  <_3298> anyway, bbl
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15:22:32  <peter1138> nothing ever does
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15:48:33  <frosch123> wow, first time in weeks to not "wake up" to fs spam
15:49:43  <peter1138> :p
15:49:49  <peter1138> andythenorth, work harder
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16:39:22  <andythenorth> frosch123: lies
16:39:28  <andythenorth> there is a new FS :P
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16:45:52  <frosch123> <- Wolf01: if you keep that in mind, is there still a problem with loading savegames?
16:49:33  <andythenorth> peter1138: I ran out of tickets to close
16:49:45  <andythenorth> game over
16:49:50  <andythenorth> insert coins to continue
16:50:19  <Wolf01> frosch123: I don't think it's a version problem, the problem is to load even the savegame made with NRT, you start the game, lay down a tram, start it, save, load, crash
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17:29:47  <Wolf01> true that
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18:10:22  <andythenorth> BGTT
18:10:25  <andythenorth> Trees
18:10:37  <andythenorth> o_O
18:15:30  <Wolf01> You want some trees?
18:17:01  <frosch123> Wolf01: it still does not crash for me
18:17:08  <andythenorth> I am experimenting with putting ‘BGT’ in front of things
18:17:13  <andythenorth> to see how it sounds
18:17:39  <andythenorth> what crashes?  Trams?
18:17:41  <Wolf01> ButGroundTypesTree doesn't make sene
18:17:43  <Wolf01> *sense
18:17:47  <frosch123> andythenorth: V will be happy if you put "But" in front of word starting with "T" like "Trees"
18:18:22  <andythenorth> then we can make Also Sea Stations
18:18:28  <Wolf01> Spec is: - I'm a tree; - I can grow from x to y; - I have n stages of growth; - I can grow in desert? - I can grow in snow?
18:18:34  <andythenorth> which is enhanced buoys
18:18:51  <andythenorth> Wolf01: NRT crashes for you?
18:18:59  <Wolf01> Yes
18:19:05  <andythenorth> what’s the repro step?
18:19:21  <Wolf01> "start the game, lay down a tram, start it, save, load, crash"
18:19:33  <Wolf01> Electric trams better
18:20:08  <Wolf01> Let me check which grf
18:22:04  <Wolf01> Meh, compiled master instead of ratt
18:22:08  <andythenorth> no crash here
18:22:44  <Wolf01> Did you sync ratt?
18:22:49  <andythenorth> yup
18:23:07  <Wolf01> BTW still crashes even with old version
18:23:08  <andythenorth> tip is commit bd698b9186ded2c669e53f0543b63afa0d08def5
18:23:09  <andythenorth> Merge: ed96c9fe3 bad02122a
18:23:32  <andythenorth> Author: frosch <>
18:23:33  <andythenorth> Date:   Tue Sep 5 13:44:11 2017 +0200
18:23:33  <Wolf01> Is that dev branch?
18:23:46  <andythenorth> road-and-tram-types
18:24:21  <andythenorth> got any failed merge artefacts?
18:24:44  <Wolf01> No, update cleanly
18:25:23  <Wolf01> Maybe is the grf, could be, I've never saved a game when using those
18:25:28  <andythenorth> can’t repro with road hog
18:26:27  <Wolf01> road hog r 1187m, unspooled, dual mode generic rvs 0.21
18:28:30  <Wolf01> Crashes
18:28:41  <Wolf01> I'll send you savegame and grfs
18:29:43  <andythenorth> raise a FS ticket :P
18:29:46  <andythenorth> no don’t
18:31:53  <Wolf01>!AgUFeOGLNNfVh_9i3aQIXzq9l-EMJw
18:45:37  <andythenorth> Wolf01: asserts for me
18:46:01  <andythenorth>  Signal:  Floating point exception: 8 (8)
18:46:22  <Wolf01> That's a division by 0 crash, not an assert :P
18:46:46  <glx> he's not a dev ;)
18:46:46  <Wolf01> BTW, try to repro it with those grfs
18:46:47  <andythenorth> potato / potato :)
18:47:17  <Wolf01> New game, create tram, start it, save, load
18:47:46  <Wolf01> It must be the grf then, but why only on load?
18:49:04  <glx> something not stored in saved when it should maybe
18:49:17  <glx> or the grf using values it shouldn't
18:52:58  <andythenorth> Wolf01: I can’t repro
18:53:05  <andythenorth> which tram? :|
18:53:14  <Wolf01> An electric one
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18:59:32  <andythenorth> hmm
19:06:21  <Wolf01> BTW for me it crashes with every kind of stuff, diesel vehicles stop after loading a game but they can be restarted, steam ones crash like electric ones
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19:07:05  <Wolf01> The cause is always "max_speed" = 0
19:07:52  <andythenorth> oh :)
19:08:15  <andythenorth> I’d better try with exact grf setup :|
19:08:22  <andythenorth> screenshot?
19:09:35  <Wolf01> [newgrf]
19:09:35  <Wolf01> 9787EAFE|5C21FA28967281813B38593A8B56F78C|road-hog\road-hog.grf = 1 0 0
19:09:35  <Wolf01> 44450601|672F213ED5C0A850FEE748E86A915F14|spool.grf =
19:09:35  <Wolf01> 44450602|D1EB522C1DA7ED3D54C815DCDAF110D0|moprv.grf = 2 2 0 0
19:15:27  <andythenorth> hmm
19:15:35  <andythenorth> moprv not showing me any vehicles
19:15:42  <andythenorth> or no trams
19:16:15  <andythenorth> I had this issue before :|
19:16:34  <andythenorth> tarpit :)
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20:24:20  <Eddi|zuHause> dangit, still stuck in deponia...
20:24:42  <Eddi|zuHause> the walkthrough says i need to try to take the hooks, but nothing happens
20:25:21  <Wolf01> On the starting city store?
20:25:33  <Eddi|zuHause> yes
20:26:00  <Eddi|zuHause> "Take a look at jar with Hooks and try to take one. Rufus will be hurt but will also get Key of First Aid Kit."
20:26:06  <Eddi|zuHause> that does not happen
20:26:14  <Eddi|zuHause> she just says "hands off my stuff"
20:26:22  <Wolf01> Insist
20:26:56  <Wolf01> Soon or later you'll get Rufus hurt himself
20:27:58  <Eddi|zuHause> i don't understand
20:30:00  <Eddi|zuHause> oh, by "one" they don't mean a hook, but a coupon... silly
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20:42:00  <V453000> hmmm
20:42:08  <V453000> I might proceed ignoring tropic and toyland trees for now
20:42:10  <V453000> it's just too much
20:42:33  <V453000> might attempt to make one and just clone the fuck out of it
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21:30:55  <Eddi|zuHause> "Postbot"... so that's a joke that only works in german? :p
21:32:39  <Wolf01> I'm stuck at finding a pipe for the dart
21:34:18  <Eddi|zuHause> i found that while i was stuck with the other thing :p
21:37:48  <Eddi|zuHause> "Ersatzpostkatzenkastenputzmittelersatzsack" :p
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22:26:11  <Wolf01> Ok, for today I give up at the emergency office
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22:37:46  <Eddi|zuHause> oh i found the trick there pretty quickly, but i got lucky i guess
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22:50:43  <Eddi|zuHause> dangit, i think i missed an achievement option there
22:50:55  <Eddi|zuHause> in the post office
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23:10:24  <glx> this game is full of stupid achievements ;)
23:13:07  <glx> I just got 66/105 on my first run (without walktrough, except when blocked)
23:15:31  <Wolf01> I used a walkthrough once only on the 3rd episode because it was really weird
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