Log for #openttd on 20th September 2017:
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06:49:59  <twb> Hi, it's me again, the prison guy.
06:50:13  <__ln__> o/
06:50:34  <twb> I unpacked the DOOM basemusic (from bananas) into /usr, and now when a new user starts openttd, they get doom by default instead of openmsx
06:50:47  <twb> What governs which gfx/sfx/msx is the default?
06:56:48  <V453000> I need to give that a try someday
06:57:45  <twb> I also noticed that doom was listed on banana's web UI but not on the in-game content manager
06:57:48  <twb> which is weird
06:58:44  <V453000> wt
06:58:45  <V453000> f
06:59:09  <V453000> I see it from r27892
06:59:16  <V453000> does it have any version requirements?
06:59:20  <twb> V453000: oh maybe
06:59:30  <twb> I didn't look very hard so I might have just screwed things up
06:59:41  <twb> I mean: I might have looked wrong, and it *is* there, I'm just stupid
06:59:54  <twb> When I delete DOOM music, the default music is Scott Joplin
07:00:08  <V453000> well if you delete it of course there is some default
07:00:19  <V453000> however that is defined, no clue
07:00:21  <twb> is it just sorting alphabetically?
07:00:55  <twb>
07:01:47  <V453000> damn now I need to obtain also the old ttd music
07:01:49  <V453000> I lost it somewhere
07:02:21  <V453000> the doom music is awesome if you have a map where is a shitload of trains, fits to the insanity
07:02:38  <V453000> in the startup screen it's a bit megamayhem XD need to change startup screen I guess
07:05:19  <twb> This fixes things:
07:05:20  <twb> root@alef:~# ln -s openmsx /usr/share/games/openttd/baseset/OpenMSX
07:05:37  <twb> So it is probably just using the first one, sorted alphabetically in C locale
07:05:38  <V453000> wow didn't take long to pirate original music :D cba searching on my disks
07:05:51  <V453000> openmsx is trash I don't even download it
07:06:35  <twb> Maybe but I don't want to change the default to doom or joplin in case it triggers a riot
07:08:17  <V453000> well the default is noMusic
07:08:27  <andythenorth> V453000 trains are ass
07:08:34  <V453000> SICK STATEMENT
07:08:36  <V453000> why andythenorth ?
07:08:39  <V453000> trains wreck all shit
07:08:42  <V453000> they best
07:08:48  <andythenorth> my nice engine scheme falls apart when speeds get high
07:08:58  <andythenorth> always problems when high
07:09:29  <andythenorth> think problem is reality
07:09:31  <twb> ← better than trains
07:09:35  * andythenorth deletes reality
07:10:36  <V453000> why would there be a problem just because of speedS?
07:10:40  <V453000> poor acceleration?
07:10:44  <V453000> wagon limit shit?
07:11:31  <andythenorth> nah, two fast engines, one electric, one diesel
07:11:34  <twb> Hey my dad said last week that if you use continuous welded rail, you don't need to ever re-weld using thermite because it's a single piece of track
07:11:56  <andythenorth> V453000: reality has electric engine 155mph, diesel engine 125mph
07:11:57  <twb> And I'm like "that's bullshit, if the track cracks dude to subsidence or something, you still have to reweld it"
07:12:04  <twb> I don't suppose you guys know
07:12:32  <andythenorth> no :)
07:12:38  <twb> Ha- wikipedia says I'm right
07:12:54  <twb> »Thermite welding is used to repair or splice together existing CWR segments.«
07:13:03  <twb>
07:13:14  <__ln__> but was his point that it won't crack at the point where it was welded earlier (any more likely than at any other point)
07:13:22  <andythenorth> V453000: also wtf
07:13:24  <__ln__> many points in that sentence
07:13:47  <V453000> I don't get the problem andythenorth
07:13:50  <twb> __ln__: yeah I grant that breaks are less common because fewer stress points &c
07:14:16  <andythenorth> is BS problem V453000, I just remembered that me and Dan invented the 155mph engine
07:14:19  <andythenorth> is not even realisms :P
07:14:42  <andythenorth> such non-problem
07:15:03  <andythenorth> schema must rule
07:15:33  <andythenorth> problem solved
07:15:36  <V453000> ._.
07:15:57  <andythenorth> electric vs. non electric is challenge
07:16:02  <andythenorth> should be about equsl
07:16:12  <V453000> electric vs. non electric is just a change of one flag
07:16:18  <V453000> nothing more
07:16:19  <andythenorth> reason to build electric: Because Like The Sparks Animation
07:16:21  <twb> you mean electric vs. diesel-electric?
07:16:23  <andythenorth> not economics
07:16:29  <V453000> yes andythenorth
07:16:40  <twb> or like coal-fired steam shit like in northern china
07:16:57  <andythenorth> all of the above twb :)
07:17:11  <twb> coal-fire blows
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07:17:25  <andythenorth> V453000: ok thanks, such many insights
07:17:28  <andythenorth> and it’s not even 9am yet
07:17:31  <andythenorth> winning day
07:19:15  <V453000> I mean
07:19:23  <V453000> if you can figure out a nice and sensible way how to make them differ, sure thing
07:19:29  <V453000> one can have more power while other can have more T.E.
07:19:35  <V453000> one can be faster or something
07:19:57  <andythenorth> well yes
07:19:58  <V453000> or you can just have them be an upgrade to diesels in each of the classes
07:20:00  <andythenorth> and also eye candy
07:20:10  <andythenorth> should I do maglev?
07:20:14  <V453000> depends if you treat them as a train class or a generation
07:20:18  <andythenorth> class
07:20:22  <V453000> I think maglev is awesome, monorail just as much
07:20:40  <andythenorth> I need some unrealism speeds after 2020 or so
07:20:42  <V453000> if as a class then give them specific behaviours : )
07:20:43  <andythenorth> boring
07:20:49  * andythenorth never plays past 1990 or so
07:21:06  <V453000> I find making a set last 1950-2050 is like the minimum for full functionality
07:21:13  <V453000> even vanilla does that
07:21:19  <andythenorth> I go 1900-2000
07:21:21  <V453000> so nuts has 1900 - 2100
07:21:29  <andythenorth> fast trains, you just have to build a perfect network
07:21:34  <andythenorth> no fucked up andythenorth junctions
07:21:39  <V453000> XD
07:21:52  <V453000> depends on their power and TE :P
07:22:06  <V453000> trains with giant TE simply don't give fucks
07:22:16  <andythenorth> super-fast acceleration
07:23:12  <twb> TE?
07:23:24  <andythenorth> tractive effort
07:23:33  <andythenorth> so…dedicated railtype for super-fast train?
07:23:34  <twb> oh like how much shit they can pull
07:24:10  <V453000> more like how fast they accelerate at low speed, when translated to what it actually does
07:24:28  * andythenorth must biab
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07:25:06  <V453000> in my priimitive explanation I always say that T.E. matters in low speeds and power makes trains reach top speed faster
07:25:22  <V453000> it's not perfectly accurate but from observation seems to be sufficient of an explanation for myself
07:25:35  <twb> Hey, if you're curious, ttd is the 7th most popular game at the main prison:
07:26:05  <V453000> like in an actual prison people play openttd?
07:26:12  <V453000> fuck I am murdering people right now
07:26:31  <twb> V453000: yes
07:27:03  <V453000> nice
07:27:17  <V453000> I'm not sure if it's the best way how to re-socialize but trainz man
07:28:08  <twb> If I limit to only games,
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07:29:25  <twb> TBH I was surprised how popular it is
07:30:45  <V453000> I'd expect GTA to be most popular in prison XD
07:30:58  <twb> only FOSS games
07:31:23  <__ln__> won't you get sued and put into prison for calling things "something-registered-trademark clone"?
07:31:46  <V453000> __ln__: they are already in prison, can't put them anywhere :P
07:31:49  <twb> Dunno, legal people said it was OK
07:31:57  <twb> If we get a C&D we can easily change it
07:32:12  <twb> It was just a lost clearer than all the wacky names that the underlying packages have
07:32:26  <twb> especially KDE apps
07:32:38  <__ln__> i can see that perspective, yes
07:33:11  <twb> I forget that you guys probably have a bunch of windows users still — most places I hang out are like 60/40 linux/macos, with like 2 token windows users
07:33:39  <V453000> is free to play FOSS?
07:33:47  <twb> V453000: nope
07:33:59  <V453000> was just curious :)
07:34:25  <twb> V453000: it needs to meet either the Free Software Definition (from FSF) or the Debian Free Software Guidelines / Open Source Definition
07:34:39  <V453000> y
07:34:43  <twb>
07:34:46  <V453000> right
07:35:28  <twb> The technical reason why they do games on the computer instead of a separate console, is that prison staff can impose automatic curfews, and remove computer privileges, without having to physically go into the cell with a violent inmate
07:36:00  <twb> If that means they can only get 90s-era games instead of like COD and GTA, they're like "meh whatever"
07:39:03  <V453000> wait so they actually have a computer in the cell?
07:39:08  <twb> yes
07:39:11  <V453000> that's nuts
07:39:31  <twb> how else would they study or talk to their lawyers and family
07:39:46  <V453000> XD
07:40:01  <V453000> why am I not in prison
07:40:04  <twb> p
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08:10:00  <andythenorth> so basically V453000, you’re saying I should do a full generation of trains in 2020?
08:10:07  <andythenorth> and not just novelty BS?
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08:24:34  <V453000> well what does a generation mean for you
08:24:52  <V453000> for me generation is just "same kind of engine, but better in every way", with new graphics ofc
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08:33:56  <V453000> there are probably more ways to do it, I just come from the approach in nuts which is trying to keep it simple
08:34:26  <V453000> 1 class, generations in the class for time progression
08:34:46  <V453000> sure you can have hybrid trains which kind of belong to multiple classes but it will just become harder to make clear distinctions
08:35:08  <V453000> doesn't mean it's wrong, especially if the train has valid uses in some cases in the game
08:37:15  <andythenorth> classes are best
08:37:42  <andythenorth> can I be arsed to do classes in 2020 though :P
08:37:57  <andythenorth> or is 1990 end of Iron Horse progression? :P
08:38:11  <V453000> well they are just easier to develop and easier to understand for the player, someone might be more interested in not having them written anywhere and having them not so obvious so that they can discover themselves but...
08:38:29  <V453000> I believe true end should be at least 2050 to not be worse than vanilla :P
08:38:48  <V453000> the frequency at which trains come out by the end of the game doesn't need to be too high though
08:38:58  <V453000> just some 2 generations in 2000+ can easily be enough
08:39:15  <andythenorth> if I go to 2020 on 30 year generations
08:39:21  <andythenorth> then 2050 is reached
08:39:41  <andythenorth> when does monorail come in default game?
08:39:44  <V453000> in PART I plan to have generations every 20 years at the moment
08:39:44  * andythenorth looks
08:39:47  <V453000> 2001 ish
08:39:54  <V453000> monorail train is called X2001 :P
08:39:58  <andythenorth> 1999
08:40:03  <V453000> k :D
08:40:18  <andythenorth> probably high-speed rail then
08:40:22  <andythenorth> 300km/h
08:40:39  <andythenorth> compatible with ELRL + power-changing BS?
08:40:45  <andythenorth> or just own thing, no compatible?
08:40:54  <V453000> power changing bs?
08:41:16  <andythenorth> like HSPD can go on ELRL, but loses power
08:41:18  <andythenorth> or some shit
08:41:30  <andythenorth> and ELRL can go on HSPD, but blocks the route because it’s slow
08:42:01  <V453000> well I really like to use monorail and maglev because you already have that in the base graphics and it gives more variety to the set, but it has one big drawback that you need to address - autoreplacing between track types ... you can just recommend univrail / purr I guess
08:42:08  <twb> ARGH
08:42:09  <V453000> I understand
08:42:19  <twb> I just spent 20 minutes trying to work out why openttd was saying "file not writable"
08:42:22  <V453000> it's not a horrible concept but if you don't have a big reason for it, I would guess it's just confusing
08:42:28  <twb> $PWD was / rather than $HOME
08:42:38  <andythenorth> are waypoints ass?  I never use them
08:42:48  <andythenorth> not sure how else to keep slow trains off the MOAR tracks
08:43:01  <V453000> having vehicles adjust their max speed property based on railtype also allows for some high level mayhem that only 0.01% of people will ever use :P
08:43:02  <twb> Hrm that's not the problem
08:43:09  <V453000> waypoints are useful
08:43:14  <twb> Guess I'll have to strace
08:43:22  <V453000> but generally you should try to have all trains same speed
08:44:59  <andythenorth> auto-replacing :P
08:45:03  <andythenorth> such mess
08:45:28  <V453000> it's important :)
08:46:13  <V453000> Pikka's way of doing it in UKRS isn't stupid, making the maglev engines totally obscure lengths so that it makes no sense to autoreplace them, or you have to really prepare for it from earlier
08:46:31  <V453000> but I don't like that solution because it means "ok now you built that network, now abandon it and build an extra reinforcing line"
08:46:38  <andythenorth> yeah
08:46:47  <V453000> while I think it's much more interesting to motivate you to fix your old shit and build on it
08:46:48  <andythenorth> that is why I didn’t bother with this in Horse 1
08:47:01  <andythenorth> also, types compatibility is ass
08:47:09  <andythenorth> if HSPD can go on ELRL, ELRL can go on HSPD
08:47:15  <andythenorth> because fuckwittedness
08:47:17  <V453000> haha
08:47:33  <andythenorth> frosch wants to fix that stupidity
08:47:34  <V453000> more sense to use monorail and/or maglev :P
08:49:32  <andythenorth> meh
08:49:44  <andythenorth> I am more interested in drawing cute trains with cargos + random
08:49:51  <andythenorth> than sorting out railtypes bollocks :P
08:50:08  <V453000> well sure you can draw whole cute generation for a railtype :P
08:50:13  <V453000> no messing and sorting out
08:51:19  <andythenorth> high speed is planes, no? :P
08:51:24  <andythenorth> but players have asked
08:52:43  <V453000> some players on our servers don't even consider trains under 300km/h proper :P
08:52:49  <V453000> it's just fun to see them go fast
08:52:57  <V453000> also gives you the feeling of modern age
08:53:10  <V453000> if the game is in 160-200kmh forever it's just stale and the same
08:53:47  <V453000> my cap is around 500km/h, more is just dumb, 400km/h is fast as fuck, 300km/h is fast, 265km/h is slug-fast which is awesome
08:57:35  <andythenorth> 300km/h is also super-realism
08:57:50  <V453000> lawyered
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10:11:33  <andythenorth> so probably not railtypes then
10:11:35  <andythenorth> due to bollocks
10:11:38  <andythenorth> just fast trains
10:19:41  <peter1138> Just make it go 65535km/h
10:19:57  <andythenorth> ok
10:20:05  <andythenorth> how far does it move per tick?
10:20:06  <peter1138> Use callbacks to actually limit it to a proper speed.
10:20:21  <peter1138> That'll confuse no-one.
10:20:33  * andythenorth now trying a silly fast train
10:21:55  <andythenorth> meh
10:21:59  <andythenorth> 9000 is too large
10:22:41  <peter1138> Doesn't move?
10:24:46  <andythenorth> nml won’t accept it
10:24:51  <andythenorth> action 0 property too large
10:25:02  <andythenorth> won’t accept any value > 200
10:28:16  <andythenorth> hmm lies
10:33:48  <V453000> the fuck
10:34:40  <V453000> do you give it units?
10:34:41  <V453000> I didn't
10:34:53  <V453000> also I know that callbacks can give more values
10:35:09  <V453000> but not sure if it relates to speed
10:36:16  <andythenorth> no units :|
10:36:20  <andythenorth> weird
10:36:33  <andythenorth> seems I ran into this before
10:36:40  <andythenorth> my code sets a warning if the speed is too high
10:36:43  <andythenorth> some bollocks
10:54:05  <V453000> wtf XD
10:54:25  <V453000> try disabling the REALISTIC_SPEEDS flag
11:14:07  <V453000> hm, haz moar plan
11:14:12  <V453000> ideas, gg
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11:47:41  <Wolf01> o/
11:48:37  <__ln__> \o
11:52:29  <andythenorth> hi Wolf01
12:03:07  <Wolf01> huhuhuhu
12:04:25  <Wolf01> I should do an app for this
12:05:13  <Wolf01> Mmmh maybe with autohotkey
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12:32:59  <peter1138> Why is it so slow?
12:33:14  <peter1138> Is it raytracing?
12:33:45  <Wolf01> Dunno
12:34:07  <Wolf01> also this, is already done
12:35:16  <Wolf01> But uses its own render
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13:35:27  <supermop> yo
13:36:17  <crem> Indeed, yo.
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15:14:13  <Alberth> o/
15:14:56  <andythenorth> lo Alberth
15:15:06  <Wolf01> o/
15:15:11  <supermop> yo again
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15:31:08  <Wolf01> true
15:31:31  <Wolf01> Also pub and out for dinner, BBL
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17:01:40  <Eddi|zuHause> i have an unusually long usb cable
17:02:23  <frosch123> diameter is more important than length
17:04:52  <supermop> heyoo
17:05:21  <andythenorth> so how fast should trains go?
17:05:40  <frosch123> should there be a limit?
17:06:46  <supermop> C?
17:08:37  <frosch123> anyway, for cargo gameplay behaviour, the increase of speed*capacity should match the increase of industry output
17:08:57  <frosch123> or you need to sell trains after upgrading
17:09:36  <frosch123> (and yes, that is not easy to answer for firs :p)
17:11:29  <andythenorth> FIRS is silly
17:11:40  <andythenorth> we need that ‘go to depot and sell’ thing
17:11:41  <andythenorth> eh
17:11:46  <andythenorth> also consist management :P
17:12:17  <frosch123> i went the lazy route and use overflow depots
17:12:41  <andythenorth> +1
17:13:06  <andythenorth> I use an order though, not the force-depot track layout
17:14:01  <frosch123> is use the force-depot directly in front of the station
17:14:12  <frosch123> all trains go the the depot and wait there until a platform is free
17:14:19  <frosch123> laziest setup of all :)
17:14:40  <frosch123> using the complete vertical storage space of depots
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17:21:47  <V453000> haha "P
17:21:48  <V453000> :P
17:21:59  <V453000> it's like saying automating in factorio is lazy
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17:23:52  <frosch123> isn't that what the achievements communicate?
17:24:20  <frosch123> also, i want a cogwheel shaped wheelchair
17:24:27  <frosch123> no, not wheelchair, the other thing
17:24:40  <frosch123> rocking chair
17:24:51  <frosch123> cogwheel shaped rocking chair :)
17:29:51  <Eddi|zuHause> andythenorth: also add a "clone this train if it's full" order
17:30:09  <andythenorth> might as well add UI scripting eh :)
17:30:22  <Eddi|zuHause> 1: goto A, 2: clone train, 3: goto B, 4: sell train
17:31:06  <frosch123> good point, that also solves the train replacement
17:31:19  <frosch123> you only have to adjust a single train
17:31:29  <frosch123> and the older ones will phase out on their own
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18:33:50  <andythenorth> supermop_home: name some trains :P
18:34:02  * andythenorth is lacking inspiration for Brit roster for 1990 onwards
18:34:08  <andythenorth> 1) I never play this late
18:34:23  <andythenorth> 2) it exactly co-incides with my teenage train obsession
18:34:28  <andythenorth> so I know too much realism
18:46:05  <planetmaker> good evening :)
18:47:13  <frosch123> hoi, any new planets?
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18:50:08  <planetmaker> yeah... some
18:50:20  <planetmaker> I was actually busy to erode planets :D
18:50:30  <supermop> oooh
18:50:57  <supermop> i spent liek 8+ hours trying to erode a map in the SE this past weekend
18:51:08  <planetmaker> my eroded micro-planets: :p
18:54:53  <frosch123> is that a mm scale on the right?
18:55:46  <andythenorth> supermop you have a question from me…at home :P
18:56:16  <supermop> i don't know if that computer is on?
18:56:23  <supermop> supermop_home: oh maybe it is
18:56:53  <supermop> well this one was asleep so i didn't see it
18:57:02  <andythenorth>
18:58:33  <planetmaker> jo, mm-scale
18:59:12  <planetmaker> but I was only doing it for this: :P
19:00:19  <frosch123> did you fly 542 times with that plane?
19:02:37  <supermop> andythenorth: similar, 90s is not enough locomotives, and all of them i've actually seen
19:03:31  <planetmaker> 31 parabols per flight. So that was awarded after 17 flights
19:03:46  <planetmaker> but that's the sum over the last 17 years or so
19:03:57  <supermop> how many more until you get a free flight?
19:04:11  <planetmaker> they were all free ... I was paid ;)
19:04:24  <Alberth> :)
19:04:31  <frosch123> 31 sounds like they avoided 42
19:04:49  <planetmaker> reasoning is: 30 parabols. Plus a 0th for getting used-to
19:05:15  <Alberth> 17 flights is more mysterious :p
19:05:39  <supermop> also why not give the award for 500
19:05:42  <frosch123> ah, you throw up on the first one, and then you can get out the technical stuff which should stay clean :)
19:05:45  <Alberth> I mean, it's not a natural number to give anything
19:05:58  <planetmaker> it's now 18 flights ;)
19:06:16  <planetmaker> but depends on amount of team members of how many flights per campaign there are per person
19:06:33  <supermop> so if you are flying on a parabolic trajectory, how many miles do you earn?
19:07:02  <Alberth> I hope you're not starting to wonder why a commercial airplane never seems to be starting the 'normal' parabole flight pattern :p
19:07:10  <planetmaker> hm... 2 miles up, 2 miles down. And 1 minute flight at ~600 mph.
19:07:13  <V453000> I feel like I don't understand a word but I feel the urge to congratulate pm! :D
19:07:14  <supermop> the length of the parabola, or the straight line distance projected on earth?
19:07:33  <supermop> V453000: zero gravity
19:07:51  <Alberth> 17 x 31 times :)
19:08:21  <frosch123> V453000: tl;dr; pm gets paid for testing fun parks
19:08:24  <planetmaker> <-- last flight route
19:08:37  <planetmaker> hehe
19:09:12  <V453000> so you fly an airplane up and down to get zero gravity state? :D like rollercoaster? :D
19:09:45  <frosch123> like a rollercoaster with a 2miles downhill
19:09:59  <V453000> the flight chart of altitude suggests that XD
19:10:05  <Alberth> rollercoaster doesn't quite reach zero gravity
19:10:08  <V453000> that's utterly awesome
19:10:14  <V453000> yeah blabla Alberth :P
19:10:22  <Alberth> those chair lifts that fall down do, though
19:10:26  <planetmaker> V453000, yeah, exactly taht
19:10:30  <V453000> that's sick pm :D
19:10:37  <frosch123> "sick" :p
19:10:38  <V453000> may I ask what kind of research is it for? :P
19:10:45  <planetmaker> only if you easily get motion-sickness. Otherwise it's great fun :)
19:10:52  <V453000> haha
19:10:58  <V453000> I think I am quite resistant to that
19:11:19  <planetmaker> V453000, I'm not joking with my nickname :) Planet making or formation is what I'm getting paid for ;)
19:11:34  <V453000> well that I know
19:11:47  <V453000> oh so are you simulating space environment by that?
19:12:09  <planetmaker> yeah, the start of planet formation happens in the absence of big gravity :)
19:12:17  <V453000> :0 cool
19:13:49  <planetmaker> the sick thing is: their promotional video is from my previous campaign...
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19:19:38  <V453000> damn that's awesome
19:19:56  <V453000> so you are the pilot or one of the scientists on board? or both? XD
19:22:17  <planetmaker> lol, pilot? No
19:22:40  <planetmaker> I'm just one of the science guys floating several times through the images
19:22:40  <V453000> in english "flying airplanes" is a confusing term :P
19:22:44  <V453000> cool
19:22:50  <V453000> hm I didn't notice you
19:22:52  <V453000> damn
19:24:37  * andythenorth tries to spot PM
19:25:17  <V453000> FOUND HIM :>
19:25:35  <andythenorth> I thought I saw him in a seat
19:26:54  <V453000> he's definitely investigating the hell out of that mysterious box in 4:42 right :)
19:26:55  <Rubidium> andythenorth: you mean at 1:31?
19:27:15  <andythenorth> yes
19:27:23  <andythenorth> was that PM?
19:27:38  <V453000> the window seat?
19:27:41  * andythenorth has only seen one picture of most ottd people
19:27:59  <V453000> andythenorth: saddest part is that I saw him at least twice in person XD
19:28:03  <V453000> memory is a bitch
19:28:15  <andythenorth> such meetups
19:28:31  <planetmaker> 1:29, 1:51, 2:10, 2:22, 2:25, 4:41, 4:51
19:29:01  <planetmaker> or roughly
19:29:07  <planetmaker> so... what's new here?
19:29:14  <V453000> =D nice
19:29:25  <V453000> andythenorth is wrecking hs newgrfs every day, nothing new
19:29:33  <V453000> I'm finishing BRIX and planning next train set
19:29:37  <V453000> no drama anywhere :(
19:30:05  <planetmaker> no cats? Or slugs set free accidentially and on rampage?
19:30:13  <V453000> no cats
19:30:17  <andythenorth> drama such forums V453000
19:30:21  <andythenorth> but really low grade
19:30:22  <V453000> can't confirm no slugs
19:34:12  <Wolf01> I have 3 hours before sleepflix, what could I do?
19:34:26  <frosch123> sports :p
19:34:27  <andythenorth> watch this video
19:34:27  <Rubidium> plan a vacation?
19:34:45  <andythenorth> Wolf01: 5km on exercise bike
19:34:54  <Wolf01> Oh god, they built it
19:35:02  <andythenorth> it’s a great video
19:35:28  <ic111> Wolf01 - If I get right you wanted to show me something?
19:35:41  <Wolf01> Oh, yes
19:35:44  <V453000> andythenorth: it won't get an video-of-the-evening award but it's still awesome
19:35:50  <ic111> (happily, after about 4 days, my internet provider brought back service...)
19:37:07  <Wolf01> Wow, great video indeed
19:37:45  <V453000> and I'm sitting here making dumb ass trees for a 90s game :P
19:39:01  <Wolf01> ic111:
19:39:43  <Wolf01> I'm aiming to something like this:
19:42:02  <supermop> ok so why does the first little rover have to go up on deck to drop off it's cargo
19:42:12  <supermop> looks like something from Dune
19:42:31  <Wolf01> deserts od karak
19:42:35  <Wolf01> *of
19:42:35  <supermop> or what i imagined dune looking like when i read it
19:42:53  <ic111> Ah, so a rewrite of the map generator GUI?
19:42:54  <supermop> i never played the game or saw any of the films
19:43:05  <Wolf01> I played with dune before reading the books, so I had few things left to immagination
19:43:13  <ic111> I extended that one in my rivers patch
19:43:52  <ic111> The rainfall river generator patch contains an additional option to choose the river generator, and a setting dialog to configure the generator settings
19:44:02  <Wolf01> ic111: yes, but I didn't use the classic "put everything on one window and remove what it's not really needed and move it to settings"
19:44:39  <ic111> Yes, you group the settings in something like tabs
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19:44:51  <Wolf01> Actually they are tabs
19:45:27  <ic111> Yes, they are (had the appearance of browser tabs in mind when I wrote "something like")
19:46:18  <ic111> I just start thinking - where would I place my river settings in that concept?
19:47:24  <Wolf01> I'd say on gameplay, as rivers alter the gameplay, not the map creation
19:48:10  <ic111> Hm, my first thought was "map, as rivers are part of the map"
19:48:23  <ic111> But you are right, everything in that dialog is related to the map
19:48:25  <andythenorth> planetmaker: don’t you to use tricks to build the seaplane airport?
19:48:28  <ic111> somehow
19:48:30  <andythenorth> +need
19:48:41  <andythenorth> with canal or so?
19:49:01  <Wolf01> "Map" should be "general", you have the most common changed settings for generation
19:49:16  <ic111> What I meant is especially: I have one additional dropdown for choosing the generator - but then a couple of generator settings that are currently in a separate dialog
19:49:52  <ic111> So, either one would need a button under "Gameplay" to access that dialog, or an additional tab - which might interfere with overall design of that window...
19:50:16  <ic111> Especially, as my dialog is wider than one column of widgets
19:51:05  <Wolf01> The window I made is really small compared to the old one
19:51:22  <Wolf01> So I think there's some margin of expansion
19:52:00  <ic111> See here (page 16) for a screenshot of my generator GUI changes (some small changes occured lateron, but the concept stayed the same)
19:53:05  * andythenorth needs art
19:54:46  <Wolf01> Yes, could have a tab on its own or a button on the gameplay tab
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19:55:55  <ic111> Anyway, probably the timetable patch consumes enough of my time at the moment ;-)
19:56:54  <Wolf01> Oh, mine was just a demo to show you that you can change the old approach to create UIs, they don't need to be a static rectangle filled with widgets ;)
19:56:59  <Wolf01> The SELECTION widget is really powerful, it only needs to be handled carefully
19:58:28  <ic111> Though I learned quite a lot about the limits of the OpenTTD GUI engine when I designed that river configuration window
19:58:37  <ic111> (maybe also about my limits to understand it...)
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20:05:13  <ic111> Current screenshot of the adjusted timetable window is now here:
20:05:20  <V453000> hmm, ALL 4 climates are wrong in my "tree sprite ID table" :D
20:05:21  <V453000> somehow
20:07:16  <andythenorth> ok such
20:07:19  <andythenorth> need advice / ideas
20:07:27  <andythenorth> ?? need deciding
20:07:32  <andythenorth> or don’t continue to 2020
20:08:06  <V453000> continue to 2020
20:08:28  <andythenorth> realism says 125mph, then 186mph, but only special train on special railtype
20:08:34  <V453000> 90 - 125 - 125?
20:08:48  <andythenorth> or 90, 140, 186 or so
20:08:48  <V453000> sure why not
20:08:53  <V453000> no need for special railtype
20:08:59  <andythenorth> railtype bollocks boggles my brain
20:09:07  <andythenorth> scrap railtype
20:09:10  <V453000> mono and mglv is cute
20:09:21  <andythenorth> did anyone make a decent mglv grf?
20:09:24  <V453000> but if you don't like it then it's not just pure benefit, has some downside
20:09:29  <V453000> andythenorth: nuts? :P
20:09:35  <V453000> other than that not really
20:09:38  <andythenorth> ok fine, add NUTs with Horse
20:09:40  <andythenorth> Horse Nuts
20:09:43  <V453000> XD
20:09:47  <V453000> amazing
20:10:46  <andythenorth> up to 1990 horse is ‘engine’ and ‘pax cars’ and ‘mail cars'
20:11:05  <andythenorth> switch to some unit thing?
20:11:07  <andythenorth> mail:
20:11:22  <V453000> you can always have it look like an unit :)
20:11:35  <andythenorth> pax
20:11:43  <andythenorth> problem is, I don’t really care :)
20:11:49  <andythenorth> never goes well
20:11:53  <V453000> well in that case it's clear XD
20:11:55  <andythenorth> was useful having a DanMacK
20:11:58  <andythenorth> to do some caring
20:11:59  <V453000> I really like passenger trains looking like units
20:12:04  <andythenorth> outsource caring, I just code and draw
20:12:06  <V453000> all passenger class trains in nuts do that
20:12:10  <V453000> shitload of switches for graphics
20:12:19  <andythenorth> do you use two-headed train thing?
20:12:46  <andythenorth> cabooses are two-headed
20:12:50  <V453000> yes often
20:14:28  <andythenorth> hmm
20:14:29  <V453000> generally for passenger trains yeah
20:14:36  <V453000> not really much for freight
20:14:40  <andythenorth> could mess with dates, add whole new class of trains, two-headed
20:14:40  <V453000> except mono, mglv and slugs
20:14:53  <andythenorth> introduce 1980 or so, mess up nice order
20:15:09  <V453000> I really like double headed trains, makes trains reverse nicely in dead end stations :OP
20:18:12  <frosch123> andythenorth: you can have early engines which are really fast, but too weak to reach topspeed with more than 2 wagons
20:19:02  <V453000> I would imagine the express freight to do that yeah
20:19:24  <andythenorth> 100mph in 1860
20:19:31  <andythenorth> possible
20:19:42  <andythenorth> what is most eye candy things
20:19:46  <andythenorth> after 1990?
20:20:01  * andythenorth could just do 1860-1960 :P
20:20:07  <andythenorth> still 100 years, right?
20:20:21  <frosch123> generally, the train front
20:20:31  <Wolf01> does it really need all those pantographs?
20:20:51  <frosch123> tgv and ice look very similar, shinkansen looks really different
20:22:14  <andythenorth> Wolf01: is to keep contact in poor weather
20:22:33  <andythenorth> also that station is notorious for people taking pictures with part of station name obscured by train
20:22:39  <andythenorth> rude words :P
20:22:53  <Wolf01> :D
20:23:16  <supermop> frosch123: tgv and the first ice have locomotives
20:23:26  <supermop> shinkansen was emu from the start
20:23:42  <andythenorth> wow some ugly new train
20:24:21  <Wolf01> I always thought the pantographs were linked so you raise the right one based on the direction you need to go
20:24:25  <frosch123> supermop: shinkansen is extremely long in the front
20:24:41  <supermop> that's new since 97/00 ish
20:24:47  <Wolf01> "ugly"
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20:24:55  <supermop> before they were more bullnosed
20:25:11  <supermop> to reduce shock in tunnels
20:25:27  <frosch123> <- while these two are very similar
20:25:44  <FLHerne> Wolf01: Woodhead was 1500V DC
20:26:08  <FLHerne> Wolf01: So considerably higher-current than the 25kV things you get now
20:26:33  <FLHerne> If you just had one pantograph, you'd probably be melting the wire over the contact point
20:26:50  <FLHerne> Er, no, that makes no sense
20:26:54  <frosch123> <- only nuts has engines in that shape
20:27:01  <frosch123> and possibly some actual shinkansen set
20:27:11  <FLHerne> Oh, maybe it does
20:28:11  <supermop> frosch123: that's a JR maglev
20:28:23  <V453000> nuts doesn't really use that shape I think
20:28:30  <V453000> something similarly fucked up, probably yes
20:28:35  <supermop> n700 sets are somewhat similar, just less extreme
20:29:21  <FLHerne> andythenorth: You could have a 365 also , and have a single pax/mail-refittable unit?
20:29:38  <andythenorth> I could yes
20:29:41  <supermop> i would argue that tgv is quite different from the ice, not just for having a locomotive, but because of the way the 'sides' of the front roll off
20:29:48  <FLHerne> (inb4 someone gets pedantic and insists that 325s are really more like 319s underneath)
20:30:06  <andythenorth> FLHerne: there is the tin rocket thing from 1998 currently, 100mph, pax, express freight
20:30:10  <andythenorth> looks like a sprinter
20:30:18  <andythenorth> not convinced by it
20:30:48  <andythenorth> 100mph is not a speed point
20:30:52  <andythenorth> in new Horse
20:31:13  <andythenorth> 1990, 90mph probably
20:31:23  <andythenorth> then 2020: bi-mode??, ??? mph
20:31:29  <frosch123> V453000: hmm, i thought there were more engines which looked like mono-fast-endgame
20:31:40  <frosch123> no idea what i remembered
20:31:48  <V453000> some of the early version might have more wtf shapes actually
20:32:48  * andythenorth has forgotten
20:33:01  <andythenorth> why is it total kitten-killing to have engines carry mail?
20:33:15  <frosch123> andythenorth: make a japanese roaster, the engines look way more interesting
20:33:15  <FLHerne> andythenorth: Because it causes stations to start providing mail
20:33:24  <V453000> if they can't carry passengers, then it makes stations provide mail
20:33:24  <FLHerne> andythenorth: While not providing any real mail capacity
20:33:25  <V453000> yeah that
20:33:30  <andythenorth> frosch123: once I have a schema :P
20:33:48  <FLHerne> So then it forces you to build a mail network, which can be annoying if you didn't really want to
20:33:50  <andythenorth> Africa roster is 50% done already, and had more schema, I am ret-conning now
20:33:56  <andythenorth> Japan roster is valid
20:34:02  * FLHerne does anyway usually, so doesn't care
20:34:25  <andythenorth> so, something like HST with mail on engines, no no no
20:34:33  <andythenorth> means fast mail car needed then
20:35:21  <andythenorth> which means fast express freight also
20:35:32  <andythenorth> dunno 180mph food seems daft
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20:36:03  <V453000> 13 tropic trees, 2 cacti, 3 more tropic trees
20:36:05  <V453000> in that order
20:36:07  <V453000> the fuck :D
20:36:45  <andythenorth> just make sure they are integer heights
20:37:07  <supermop> i wrote out a japan roster
20:37:17  <andythenorth> o_O
20:37:21  <andythenorth> was it real, or made up?
20:37:32  <V453000> I really hate "this country" newgrf at this point
20:37:47  <V453000> my 2c :D
20:38:01  <FLHerne> andythenorth:
20:38:13  <andythenorth> V453000: you shock me :)
20:39:01  <andythenorth> FLHerne: seems legit
20:42:00  <FLHerne> (hasn't actually happened yet)
20:45:25  <frosch123> V453000: do you prefert 2cc's "every country"? :p
20:49:52  <andythenorth> how fast then?
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20:55:47  <Wolf01> andythenorth: any advice on the size of the locomotives? In cubes maybe
20:56:04  <andythenorth> they’re 8 wide?
20:56:35  <Wolf01> Yes
20:56:51  <Wolf01> I noticed that they get really weird if I need to keep space for pantograph
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21:00:11  <Wolf01> Also I whink I'll switch to voxelshop
21:00:31  <Wolf01> Supports textures and skeletal animation
21:01:13  <Wolf01> Meh, java
21:02:58  <Wolf01> Wow, I can import a square palette
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21:06:21  <Wolf01> Ok, nice but too much powerful for what I'm doing
21:08:00  <andythenorth> 8 wide, probably 40 long
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21:40:35  <Wolf01>
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21:44:58  <andythenorth> integer length? o_O
21:45:21  <Wolf01> Should be 1 tile long
21:46:02  <Wolf01> Articulated (2 parts), I want to do a 1 tile long (or more) in 3 parts
21:46:51  <andythenorth> going to 2050 is daft :P
21:47:06  <andythenorth> just ends up with multiple daft OP, super-fast units
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21:51:03  <Wolf01> I think for the 3 part one I'll stick to the crocodile design :/
21:52:07  <Wolf01> Even if I wanted to do this one, but more modern design:
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21:53:16  <andythenorth> I like those chunky electric trains
21:53:25  * andythenorth wants to do a roster of those
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21:56:10  <Wolf01> mmmh
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22:29:23  <Wolf01> heavy breathing... 2 tile long articulated engine
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22:33:23  <Wolf01> peter1138:
22:44:06  <peter1138> Scale is wrong on that mod, though :(
22:44:34  <Wolf01> Like there was something right in minecraft :(
22:44:40  <Wolf01> *like if
22:45:15  <Wolf01> I think MC and TT can compete with the scale problems
22:45:47  <Wolf01> V453000!
22:46:04  <peter1138> There's a different mod that gives a better scale, iirc.
22:47:27  <peter1138> Hmm, no, I was imagining it.
22:51:19  <Wolf01> Maybe I could make a rooster of the most strangest locomotives I find, like the big boy cab forward, the "half locomotive", the 4-units articulated, some weird steam prototypes and some huge gas turbine electric locomotives
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