Log for #openttd on 1st October 2017:
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01:33:22  <nicfer> Hi
01:34:08  <nicfer> I'm looking at a newgrf nml file, and I see over 55k lines of code
01:34:43  <nicfer> Are those really written manually, or is there some helper tool ?
01:36:51  <ST2> you have the help of 10 litle magicians... called fingers xD
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06:26:58  <andythenorth> o/
06:30:35  <Alberth> moin
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06:44:05  * andythenorth puzzled about fruit + veg vehicles
06:44:07  <andythenorth> what colour to use
06:44:23  <andythenorth> seems I ran into this puzzle with ships too
06:48:17  <andythenorth> bright yellow with CC roof? o_O
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06:57:37  <Alberth> works for bananas :)
06:58:22  <Alberth> but sounds good to me, nice bright colourful wagons
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07:12:07  <andythenorth> using colour is tricky, because of CC
07:12:11  <andythenorth> and using shape is hard too
07:12:15  <andythenorth>
07:12:32  <andythenorth> I’ve tried drawing vents of different kinds, but it looks like a prison wagon
07:13:00  <andythenorth>
07:15:12  <Alberth> colour worked for fridges
07:15:24  <Alberth> thin red line for the CC colour
07:16:03  <Alberth> maybe add a non-cc colour near or around it, eg a black line above it or so?
07:16:12  <andythenorth> fruit trams in hog are green-brown
07:16:23  <Alberth> also, I ran out of coffee, perhaps I should make more
07:16:57  <Alberth> they even painted the roof :p
07:17:30  <Alberth> it's almost splitting the wagon in 3 pieces
07:17:35  <andythenorth> coffee is an easy question
07:18:07  <Alberth> can't you make the line more diagonal?
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07:19:26  <andythenorth> a CC line?
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07:19:34  <andythenorth> or black
07:19:35  <andythenorth> hmm
07:22:25  <Alberth> or more horizontal even, eg between the yellow lines
07:22:58  <Alberth> maybe extend to the edge of the wagons
07:23:29  <Alberth> below or above the red line is another option
07:23:42  <Alberth> indeed, coffee answer is "yes" :p
07:34:39  <andythenorth>
07:34:48  <andythenorth> various fruit cars and livestock cars
07:39:38  <Alberth> roof isn't affected, which looks better imho
07:40:36  <Alberth> can't you have two or more wagons, and use a non-conflicting colour version depending on CC colour?
07:41:03  <Alberth> eg yellow bananas wagon, except for the yellow comapny who uses a red wagon
07:41:29  <Alberth> assuming recolouring is mostly automagic
07:43:09  <andythenorth> it’s an idea
07:43:19  <andythenorth> other options:
07:43:26  <andythenorth> - drop fruit vehicles (wagons, trams, trucks, ships)
07:43:38  <andythenorth> - find a new shape that works for wagons, trams, trucks, ships
07:44:09  <Alberth> solving the problem universal, eh?
07:44:13  <andythenorth> yup
07:45:12  <Alberth> fwiw, I like the most bottom one at the template, for not being so vertical
07:46:52  <Alberth> but perhaps just a style matter for one or so generation
07:47:18  <Alberth> more variation implies colour, I think
07:47:33  <Alberth> which implies you can't have everything CC
07:48:31  <Alberth> if you solve that, you can add more variation by shape of the colours
07:48:48  <Alberth> perhaps for different wagoin types or transport modes
07:49:05  <andythenorth> currently favouring the one with 2CC and brown doors
07:50:34  <Alberth> nice one, mostly due to non-conflicting green and brown :)
07:51:05  <Alberth> any particular reason why a wagon must be completely CC?
07:51:18  <Alberth> or mostly CC, probably
07:52:25  <Alberth> ships and trucks are perhaps another matter
07:52:33  <Alberth> no engine to colour CC :)
07:52:52  <Alberth> hmm, so trains are the special case?
07:53:36  <andythenorth> not sure :)
07:53:58  <andythenorth> more and more I just return to the base set :)
07:54:18  <Alberth> in that case, you're done already :p
07:54:26  <andythenorth> without intending it, Horse has recreated more and more of the base set decisions, but scaled to FIRS etc
07:54:39  <andythenorth> the rubber truck in base set is quite ‘farm-like’
07:54:43  <andythenorth> or the grain truck
07:54:58  <andythenorth> so either brown, or silver-grey for fruit vehicles I think
07:55:00  <Alberth> English modeled, in 1990 :)
07:56:05  <andythenorth> hmm
07:56:18  <andythenorth> I use dark red for rubber though, it looks better imho
07:56:21  <Alberth> tbh CC-ing the truck/ship/aircraft is a bit weird
07:56:49  <Alberth> not every company in RL paints its vehicles in one colour
07:57:42  <andythenorth> looks good when they do though :)
07:58:20  <Alberth> definitely
07:58:53  <Alberth> as a wild idea, maybe extend default set instead?
07:59:18  <andythenorth> :)
07:59:37  <andythenorth> I’ll end up like V453000 ;)
08:00:20  <Alberth> I don't see you making BRIX :)
08:01:02  <andythenorth> maybe not :P
08:01:06  <andythenorth> also bbl
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08:01:09  <Alberth> bye
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10:07:06  <Wolf01> o/
10:10:25  <Alberth> o/
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10:32:52  <__ln__> do you think people in catalonia are expecting the spanish inquisition?
10:33:23  <Alberth> looks not unlikely, if it's not there already
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11:04:06  <Wolf01> :D :D :D
11:05:06  <Wolf01> <__ln__> do you think people in catalonia are expecting the spanish inquisition? <- nobody expect the spanish inquisition
11:07:13  <Wolf01> and
11:12:40  <Wolf01> Wow
11:16:44  <Alberth> ha :)
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11:52:23  <frosch123> the pink train would fit into horse
11:55:10  <Wolf01> Sure
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13:08:38  <andythenorth> ho a new FS
13:13:59  <Wolf01> o/
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13:20:00  <andythenorth> hmm
13:20:04  * andythenorth designing colour combinations
13:20:22  <andythenorth> quite addictive
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15:55:39  <andythenorth> quiet
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17:45:45  <DorpsGek> Commit by translators :: r27923 trunk/src/lang/polish.txt (2017-10-01 19:45:39 +0200 )
17:45:47  <DorpsGek> -Update from Eints:
17:45:48  <DorpsGek> polish: 15 changes by McZapkie
18:01:20  <V453000> ok so funny story
18:01:39  <V453000> most of my work is very often based on After Effects and making a robust system there
18:01:59  <V453000> every single of my graphics replacement sets so far has ended because After Effects scene grew too large and messy
18:02:03  <V453000> BRIX won't be any different :D
18:02:30  <V453000> the amount of hacks I need to do in order to be able to output what I need right now is so high that for next version I will have to rework the whole system :D
18:02:47  <V453000> to be fair, this current system is adopted from first versions of RAWR sooo
18:02:49  <V453000> not too bad
18:04:08  <V453000> but in general I am trying to make a system which is trying to do way too much for relatively little reason, just becomes messy inevitably
18:07:02  * V453000 has learned his lesson
18:07:33  <andythenorth> automate!
18:07:54  <andythenorth> V453000: TBH, I find this never gets old
18:08:02  * andythenorth biab
18:08:27  <Alberth> yep, that's how software works, if you throw a problem at it which it doesn't understand, trying to contain the disaster generally fails, as it's leaky, it doesn't catch all cases correctly
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18:09:03  <Alberth> so indeed, the proper solution is to reconsider how to deal with all cases from the ground up
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18:33:49  <V453000> andythenorth: :)
18:34:25  <V453000> Alberth: yeah, well making this kind of workflows in most cases has to expect that things will expand and will need massive extensions and flexibility, but this size of stuff is just nuts
18:34:46  <V453000> also, the problem was that I was doing things from the beginning and then I realized I want to do hacks and special effects to terrain
18:35:09  <V453000> and once I started changing the terrain in one place, it has to happen in all others, and somewhere like in tunnels which are already complex as all hell, this means death :D
18:35:20  <V453000> I'm just going to photoshop it which will probably even look the best, but yeah
18:35:31  <V453000> there are other issues in line :D
18:39:05  <andythenorth> modularity :P
18:40:13  <Alberth> trouble is you can't be flexible in any direction
18:40:39  <Alberth> ie some directions must be stable, or there is nothing to build on
18:41:32  <Alberth> the difficult part is usually deciding when you want to go too far, and need to reconsider how to do things
18:42:02  <V453000> well sure, there is always a limit but generally you can have more flexible setups
18:46:36  <Alberth> definitely, there is no upper limit on the complexity you can make in software :)
18:46:38  <andythenorth> fruit and veg
18:46:41  <andythenorth> eat your greens
18:46:58  <Wolf01> Soylent ones
18:47:07  <Alberth> apple-red
18:47:16  <Alberth> rename to apple cars
18:47:30  <V453000> I love them andythenorth
18:47:41  <V453000> the bottom wagons are amazing
18:47:42  <Wolf01> Looks good
18:47:45  <V453000> no fancy shit but they look awesome
18:47:57  <V453000> just a normal box wagon with vertical lines, but it looks seriously good
18:48:16  <Wolf01> A bit too perfect, time to start making 3562 versions with graffitti and rust
18:52:56  <andythenorth> automate that :P
18:53:12  <andythenorth> randomly shift colour of pixels
18:53:56  <andythenorth> Erorr: no cargo visible
18:53:57  <Wolf01> Nono, it should have "readable" writings and have nice figures
18:53:57  <andythenorth> nvm
18:54:29  <andythenorth> got to fix livestock cars next
18:54:31  <andythenorth> and log cars
18:54:34  <andythenorth> and intermodal
18:54:39  <andythenorth> and silo cars
18:55:21  <andythenorth> and FIRS
18:55:23  <andythenorth> and Sam
18:55:24  <andythenorth> oops
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19:01:30  <andythenorth> also
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19:01:49  <andythenorth> such efficiency on sprites
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19:04:30  <V453000> damn great
19:04:38  <V453000> 666 out of 666
19:04:47  <andythenorth> ‘Fruit & Veg Car’ or ‘Fruit & Vegetables Car'
19:04:47  <andythenorth> ?
19:05:06  <Alberth> no abbreviations, imho
19:05:09  * andythenorth pictures a 7 year old saying ‘veggg’ with a hard g
19:05:10  <V453000> Refrigerated car? :P
19:05:18  <andythenorth> V453000: white one is fridge
19:05:25  <V453000> Rusty Fridge Car
19:05:30  <andythenorth> vent car
19:05:32  <andythenorth> cool car
19:05:34  <andythenorth> insulated car
19:05:37  <andythenorth> produce car
19:05:40  <andythenorth> apple car
19:05:44  <andythenorth> potato car
19:05:46  <andythenorth> tomato car
19:05:48  <andythenorth> coffee car
19:05:54  <andythenorth> fresh car
19:06:10  <andythenorth> farm car
19:06:12  <V453000> Slug-free car
19:06:22  <andythenorth> I will put that in as easter egg
19:06:29  <V453000> ha
19:06:33  <andythenorth> slug egg
19:06:37  <andythenorth> April 1
19:06:42  <andythenorth> all wagons are eggs
19:06:44  <andythenorth> hauled by slug engine
19:06:49  <V453000> nuts & brix release date, ggggg
19:06:55  <V453000> nice
19:06:59  <andythenorth> check game date
19:07:03  <andythenorth> switch sprites
19:07:09  <V453000> freeze whole game for 3 seconds
19:07:13  <V453000> unfreeze when it's 2nd april
19:07:21  <andythenorth> set speed to 0 on April 1
19:07:30  <V453000> never seen glitch :D
19:07:32  <andythenorth> cb 36 don’t work that way :P
19:07:38  <V453000> k :D
19:07:40  <V453000> sounds glorious
19:07:50  <andythenorth> all winners
19:08:15  <andythenorth> Fruit & Vegetables Car is long eh
19:08:21  * andythenorth wonders if german wins or loses that one
19:08:37  <andythenorth> usually German translation comes out super long, but occasionally it has a ready-made word
19:08:40  <andythenorth> Eddi|zuHause: ^
19:08:42  <V453000> you could just call it fruit car just like vanilla does
19:08:47  <andythenorth> I could
19:08:52  <V453000> I would
19:08:57  <andythenorth> it confused me tbh
19:09:06  <andythenorth> I have had them in-game for a while
19:09:09  <V453000> yeah because you are defining a confusing frvg cargo :D
19:09:14  <V453000> can't just have FRUT because nonono
19:09:46  <andythenorth> no is FRUT now
19:09:51  <andythenorth> changed it some time
19:10:12  <andythenorth> also refits coffee, cassava, etc
19:10:14  <andythenorth> and slugs
19:10:16  <V453000> oh
19:10:22  <V453000> yeah I remember there was some mess around it
19:10:27  <andythenorth> 'learnings’
19:10:30  <V453000> :D
19:10:39  <andythenorth> is slug a cargo?
19:10:45  <V453000> not yet
19:10:52  <andythenorth> needs to be
19:11:00  <andythenorth> ship in train with BOOM
19:11:16  <V453000> boom is explosives in FIRS3?
19:11:21  <andythenorth> yes
19:11:23  <V453000> fuck sakes
19:11:31  <V453000> JAVA is coffee, now boom is explosives
19:11:35  <andythenorth> sakes is one letter too long
19:11:38  <andythenorth> not a cargo label
19:11:40  <V453000> more labels which don't sound like the actual name pls :D
19:11:40  <andythenorth> FUCK is fine
19:11:53  <V453000> rename all labels to FUCK
19:11:58  <V453000> is universal enough word
19:12:03  <andythenorth> plenty of 4 letter words available
19:12:15  <V453000> y
19:12:17  <andythenorth> I can think of 5 easy
19:12:21  <andythenorth> without trying
19:12:31  <andythenorth> 7 now
19:12:32  <V453000> yeah
19:12:34  <andythenorth> ok
19:12:35  <V453000> :D
19:12:40  <andythenorth> 10
19:12:43  <andythenorth> stopping now
19:12:50  <andythenorth> not cargos though
19:12:56  <andythenorth> also my kids play game :P
19:13:01  <V453000> anything can be a cargo
19:13:04  <andythenorth> BUTT is probably allowed
19:13:11  <andythenorth> they’re not supposed to say it, but they do
19:13:16  <V453000> well my daughter can already say shit and use it in correct times, sooo
19:13:25  <andythenorth> SNOT
19:13:36  <V453000> whenever something isn't going the way she wants it, there it goes
19:13:45  <andythenorth> with accent?
19:13:49  <andythenorth> or perfect English?
19:13:57  <V453000> in czech obviously
19:14:15  <V453000> it's not literally translated as shit, you would translate it as "to ass" literally but yeah, we use it when something is going wrong
19:14:24  <andythenorth> we have invented a whole language for swearing-without-swearing
19:14:29  <andythenorth> which I now use at work too :P
19:14:32  <V453000> :D
19:14:53  <V453000> I think czech is very diverse in terms of defining a sub-optimal situation
19:15:13  * andythenorth back to sprites also
19:15:17  <andythenorth> how to draw tank cars?
19:15:24  <andythenorth> I hate drawing tanker vehicles
19:15:30  <V453000> haha
19:15:42  <V453000> V shaped cylinder incoming?
19:15:47  <andythenorth> such render
19:15:47  <V453000> for some extra difficulty
19:16:09  <andythenorth> I am using Pikka’s :P
19:16:36  <andythenorth> original sprite is ok, but cheats shading
19:16:42  <andythenorth> probably best strategy
19:16:50  <andythenorth> lying about lighting direction makes better sprites imho
19:16:52  <V453000> laym
19:17:08  <V453000> you mean mirrors the rotations?
19:17:35  <andythenorth> nah, stuff light higlight at both ends of – view
19:17:52  <V453000> wot
19:18:01  <andythenorth> look at original tank car
19:18:25  <andythenorth> also Turner Turbo, MSJ 250
19:18:28  <andythenorth> lots of the RVs
19:18:48  <andythenorth> all the truck cabs are lit wrong, but it looks better
19:19:25  <V453000> I see what you mean
19:19:25  <V453000> yes
19:19:32  <V453000> basically any double headed train :P
19:19:42  <V453000> hm
19:20:01  <V453000> when I see the original vehicles, my energy to try and make brix vehicles is quickly reducing :D
19:20:07  <V453000> they're just too good
19:20:20  <andythenorth> can see point
19:20:26  <andythenorth> ogfx…not so much
19:20:43  <V453000> "obviously" :P
19:21:12  <V453000> btw in regards to "mirroring 4 sprites and ignoring shading"
19:21:24  <V453000> my best sprites ever regarding this
19:21:37  <V453000> 4/4, cube is cube, you just shade it once, clone it, always looks that way :D
19:21:39  <V453000> ultimate win
19:22:13  <V453000> also iz chips heaps :)
19:23:07  <andythenorth> ha ha
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19:23:20  <andythenorth> such cube winning
19:23:21  <V453000> and they look great
19:23:23  <andythenorth> space openttd?
19:23:29  <andythenorth> black tiles
19:23:32  <V453000> also the transparency was really fun to draw in pixel pushing
19:23:36  <andythenorth> starfield background
19:23:47  <andythenorth> towns are space stations
19:23:49  <Alberth> starfield tiles :p
19:23:54  <V453000> andythenorth: there is a reason why brix water is black :P
19:24:00  <V453000> was meant to make ships as spaceships
19:24:03  <andythenorth> use water cycle for animated starts
19:24:05  <andythenorth> stars *
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19:30:26  <Wolf01> <andythenorth> space openttd? <- you won't believe me if I say I was thinking about it this morning
19:31:23  <V453000> confirmed
19:31:32  <frosch123> we don't believe you, you were thinking about lego instead
19:32:20  <Wolf01> Also that, but I think it was something I've seen there which made me think to apply space to OTTD
19:33:33  <andythenorth> space lego train?
19:33:36  <andythenorth> I posted one
19:35:37  <andythenorth> Horse doesn’t have these
19:35:45  <andythenorth> which you seem to use for ~everything in Europe
19:36:36  <Alberth> didn't you have mining supplies too?
19:36:50  <andythenorth> ENSP and FMSP
19:36:59  <andythenorth> mining supplies considered and rejected iirc
19:37:09  <Alberth> ok
19:37:17  <V453000> YETI supplies
19:37:44  <Alberth> does that fit on a train?
19:37:57  <V453000> ofc
19:37:58  <Alberth> yeti itself already needs a wagon
19:39:17  <andythenorth> hmm stake wagons
19:39:43  <andythenorth> is the name apparently
19:39:44  <V453000> steak
19:39:45  <andythenorth> rare in UK
19:39:54  <andythenorth> this one is boss
19:40:03  <andythenorth> BRIX
19:40:08  <V453000> N
19:40:14  <V453000> brix vehicles will never exist
19:40:15  <V453000> ever
19:40:29  <andythenorth> sad times
19:40:49  <Alberth> stake wagons are typically for wood, afaik
19:41:04  <Alberth> I'd expect them in norway ans sweden
19:41:07  <Alberth> *and
19:42:07  <andythenorth> I have a wood car
19:42:20  <andythenorth> in European countries they seem to be used for lots of things
19:42:41  <Alberth> lots of industry in germany
19:43:07  <Alberth> hmm, container transport too, I guess
19:43:26  <andythenorth> yup
19:43:28  <Alberth> for all countries not at sea
19:43:40  <Alberth> ie german industry :)
19:43:50  <andythenorth> not sure it adds to gameplay
19:43:57  <andythenorth> already got open wagon, flat wagon, wood wagon
19:44:12  <V453000> flatbeds are the shit
19:44:14  <V453000> cargo visible
19:44:14  <V453000> win
19:44:26  <V453000> ... need to draw many sprites for individual cargoes... :P
19:44:33  <andythenorth> hmm
19:44:34  <V453000> unless you do hacks with "covered cargo" and similar shit
19:44:49  <andythenorth> mostly visible
19:44:55  <andythenorth> and if tarpaulin, then it recolours
19:45:08  <Alberth> containers would be nice if you get lots of different ones, imho
19:45:21  <V453000> but in general flatbeds have the biggest visual effect of loaded cargo, because empty they are super empty, hoppers already have the general outline structure with a hole -> structure with heap
19:45:28  <andythenorth> agree
19:45:36  <V453000> yeah randomized flatbed cargoes = ultimate win
19:45:50  <andythenorth> got them
19:46:01  <Alberth> done!  :)
19:46:02  <andythenorth> but maybe even more wagon types with visible cargo? o_O
19:46:46  <Alberth> pick random wagon type that matches with the cargo :p
19:47:14  <andythenorth> too easily done :P
19:47:20  <andythenorth> that would be a free-for-all
19:47:23  <andythenorth> especially in Steeltown
19:48:07  <andythenorth> dedicated wagon type for every cargo IRL
19:48:15  <andythenorth> no refits needed ever
19:48:40  <Alberth> RL doesn't care about good looks :)
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19:58:38  <V453000> =D 33 GB of RAM used when rendering track spritesheet
20:05:56  <andythenorth> nicely done
20:05:58  * andythenorth bed
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23:30:43  <Wolf01> 'night
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