Log for #openttd on 2nd October 2017:
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08:25:48  <Wolf01> Moin
08:26:38  <Wolf01> Shit, I found a huge problem in my app :(
08:36:46  <crem> What is the volume of the problem?
08:36:50  <crem> Moin.
08:36:53  <crem> In litres.
08:38:00  <Wolf01> 350 litres of tears
08:43:09  <Wolf01> Waiting for the app to explode
08:45:48  <Wolf01> It didn't, but now I have to revert like 5 commits
08:45:57  <Wolf01> :(
08:47:20  <Wolf01> And I bet the shelved changes won't apply without conflicts
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11:26:51  <peter1138> Uh oh.
11:39:04  <Wolf01> I was lucky, I just finished and seem to work now
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11:44:24  <Wolf01> Mmmmh, how do I load my temporary key to build the app on
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12:01:53  <Wolf01> Ok, it can't load the certificate since is password protected :(
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13:48:09  <supermop_> yo
14:01:59  <Wolf01> o/
14:06:14  <supermop_> how's it going
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14:20:05  <Alberth> o/
14:20:45  <supermop_> hi Alberth
14:26:12  <Wolf01> <supermop_> how's it going <- out for a walk since my connection is TFU again
14:30:57  <supermop_> nice
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15:21:27  <supermop_> need to follow up on an interview i did friday
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16:12:03  <Wolf01> they should connect self driving cars to Twitch, the Twitch-plays-Pokémon challenge was a success
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16:23:27  * andythenorth ponders livestock wagons
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16:27:44  <Alberth> boxcars with holes :p
16:27:59  <andythenorth> isn’t it
16:28:16  <andythenorth> there’s no RL reference for ‘modern’ livestock cars
16:28:18  <andythenorth> have to invent some
16:28:28  <andythenorth> but shape is pretty non-variable
16:28:49  <Alberth> number of  livestock layers may vary, mostly
16:29:14  <Alberth> probably depending on stock height
16:30:27  <Alberth> livestock ship could be an inspiration?
16:30:42  <Alberth> scale is way off though :)
16:30:48  <Wolf01> Stop providing cattle wagons after 1990^
16:30:50  <Wolf01> ?
16:31:07  <Wolf01> Too much realism?
16:31:15  <andythenorth> too much
16:31:20  <andythenorth> is annoying
16:31:40  <andythenorth> UK cattle wagons look like this
16:31:41  <andythenorth> forever
16:31:52  <andythenorth> can only really vary doors, and make it longer
16:32:01  <Wolf01> make modern ones like this?
16:32:26  <andythenorth> could do a well between the wheels
16:32:31  <andythenorth> low-height cattle wagon :P
16:33:45  <Alberth> don't provide new livestock wagons after 1990?
16:34:33  <Alberth> ie current design works
16:37:06  <Wolf01> Just draw intermodal cattle containers and forget cattle wagons
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16:37:45  <Wolf01> Quak
16:37:50  <Wolf01> <-
16:38:32  <Wolf01> After 1990 make everything intermodal
16:38:32  <frosch123> hoi
16:39:23  <andythenorth> Warrigal: that’s legit :)
16:39:25  <andythenorth> actually
16:39:36  <andythenorth> oops
16:39:38  <andythenorth> Wolf01: ^
16:40:16  <andythenorth> Wolf01: picture of cattle containers is good find
16:41:19  <frosch123> oi... it's a container?
16:41:23  <andythenorth> yup
16:41:37  <andythenorth> also there are horseboxes which look ‘modern’ for 1960
16:41:42  <andythenorth> also used for prize cattle :P
16:42:12  <frosch123> that looks like it is for a single horse
16:42:25  <frosch123> does the royal train have wagons like that?
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16:46:01  <andythenorth> probably should
16:46:52  <Wolf01> Even intermodal pax, lego already tried it:
16:46:54  <supermop_> horse thing is for valuable racehourses
16:46:57  <supermop_> horses
16:47:51  <supermop_> Wolf01: i remember that train from catalogues of my youth
16:48:09  <andythenorth> also prize cow
16:48:20  <Wolf01> I always wanted a lego train and I never got one :(
16:48:28  <andythenorth> Wolf01: I could sell you some
16:48:33  <andythenorth> overwhelmed by Lego here
16:48:35  <supermop_> me neither
16:48:36  <andythenorth> some has to go
16:48:45  <supermop_> i wanted the airport monorail
16:48:47  <andythenorth> I never had a lego train when I was a kid
16:48:49  <supermop_> the red one
16:48:53  <andythenorth> have over-compensated :P
16:49:05  <Wolf01> I don't have money or space to start with trains now
16:49:21  * andythenorth thinks everyone must have too much Lego
16:49:25  <supermop_> also remember the jets with the clam-shell passenger cabin?
16:49:27  <andythenorth> probably why Lego sales are down
16:49:56  <andythenorth> supermop_: and the baggage conveyor in the terminal
16:50:02  <Wolf01> I have too few work, not too much lego
16:50:36  <Wolf01> Space isn't really a problem when you have money
16:50:37  <andythenorth> there is a weird imbalance between number of people unemployed in EU
16:50:49  <andythenorth> and number of companies in EU who can’t hire skilled staff
16:50:51  <supermop_> lego town must have been very balmy
16:51:28  <supermop_> as most public buildings are just a small half enclosed glass wall
16:51:37  <andythenorth> yup
16:51:39  * andythenorth biab
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16:51:52  <Wolf01> And number of companies who need to hire but can't afford it
16:52:06  <supermop_> and most cars don't have side windows
16:52:23  <Wolf01> supermop_: this also was one of my dreams
16:52:45  <supermop_> also even blacktron asteroid bases just had a neon green glass quarter-dome
16:53:02  <supermop_> no pressurized spaces
16:53:15  <Wolf01> :D
16:53:25  <supermop_> probably fine as the space suits are printed on and can't be taken off anyway
16:54:06  <supermop_> ooh yeah
16:54:27  <supermop_> i remember the big spreads of train scenes in the big catalog
16:55:19  <Wolf01> I still have the catalogs
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17:43:54  <andythenorth>
17:54:43  <Alberth> looks a bit fake, imho
17:58:10  <andythenorth> I was in a dry storm once
17:58:13  <andythenorth> in Freiburg
17:58:18  <andythenorth> we don’t get them much in UK
17:58:35  <andythenorth> anyone been to Freiburg? o_O
17:59:13  <V453000> evening
18:00:03  <Wolf01> interesting
18:00:05  <andythenorth> lo V
18:00:11  <V453000> how are we doing?
18:00:13  <Wolf01> o/ V
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18:01:09  <andythenorth> we walked up a random hill in Freiburg and found some kind of massive cross on a viewpoint
18:01:13  <Wolf01> "I don't indent my code. I type it in one line in uglify form. That way people will notice I am a pro coder." Win
18:01:18  <andythenorth> which was probably this
18:01:30  <andythenorth> steel cross on a hill, in a lightning storm :P
18:06:18  <Alberth> :)
18:07:02  <V453000> this brix shit is starting to be come self torture
18:07:06  <V453000> need to finish asap
18:08:30  <andythenorth>
18:08:38  <andythenorth> hard to make generations different there
18:08:53  <andythenorth> and stick to golden rule that livestock car is black horizontal gaps
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18:09:27  * andythenorth will have to piss around with rearranging 15 pixels in doors
18:09:43  <andythenorth> I have to do an extra generation for 2020 also :P
18:09:44  <V453000> what are the two wagons which are the same length and look the same?
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18:10:19  <andythenorth> different generations :(
18:10:31  <andythenorth> trains 64 and 66
18:10:38  <andythenorth> and 65 and 67
18:10:45  <andythenorth> same sprites currently, different generations
18:11:10  <andythenorth> I really want to keep look of original TTD livestock van
18:11:25  <andythenorth> but this limits variety horribly
18:11:54  <Wolf01> Change roofs color
18:12:14  <andythenorth> considered it
18:12:15  <Wolf01> Brown for the older ones and dark grey for the new ones
18:12:18  <andythenorth> but really nice to keep all same
18:12:29  <andythenorth> I tried light grey yesterday
18:12:31  <andythenorth> and CC
18:12:35  <andythenorth> but dark grey is best look
18:12:54  <Wolf01> It looks boring, all the same
18:13:00  <andythenorth> I could do ‘luxury’ for newer generations, and add windows for people who look after cows
18:13:12  <andythenorth> but eh, seems stupid
18:13:33  <andythenorth> if I just do the black gaps at top of car, it looks like prison wagon
18:13:37  <andythenorth> cow prison :P
18:13:57  <supermop_> apt
18:14:09  <andythenorth> I can move doors around, make doors bigger etc
18:14:10  <andythenorth> maybe
18:15:24  <V453000> andythenorth: original TTD van was quite a bit different :) your vans are great though
18:15:47  <V453000> well quite a bit
18:15:47  <andythenorth> original was taller
18:15:49  <V453000> not that much
18:16:06  <V453000> I guess for me it was mainly the X in the middle which defined the livestock car
18:16:13  <V453000> the texture was secondary
18:17:02  <andythenorth> first gen has x
18:17:44  <V453000> yeah but kind of small and inverted compared to the originals right
18:17:55  <andythenorth> could go bigger on it
18:18:04  <andythenorth> pretty distinctive
18:18:11  <supermop_> original had no wheels
18:18:18  <andythenorth> is true
18:18:37  <Wolf01> Somebody knows where to make the google search filters static? I mean,  "All | Images | Videos", they scramble at every search I do, usually I get shopping or news in place of images
18:18:45  <andythenorth> nope
18:18:50  <andythenorth> they rearrange seemingly random
18:18:59  <Wolf01> It's really irritating
18:19:23  <andythenorth> yes
18:19:33  <andythenorth> I looked for a way to give google feedback about it
18:19:35  <andythenorth> but no
18:19:51  <andythenorth> probably the only feedback they care about is whether you click ads
18:19:59  <andythenorth> so click ads when you like the layout, and not when you don’t
18:20:00  <Wolf01> <- could be of your interest?
18:20:56  <Wolf01>
18:21:32  <andythenorth> sheeps
18:21:54  <andythenorth> is possible to do variety in small pixels
18:21:55  <andythenorth> but eh
18:22:05  <Wolf01> "we don't have sheeps" ... "who cares?"
18:24:50  <V453000> the wagons are amzing andythenorth, but the engines are starting to be really far behind them in terms of quality :)
18:24:51  <__ln__> and the plural of sheep is ...
18:24:53  <V453000> awesome work
18:25:16  <Wolf01> <__ln__> and the plural of sheep is ... <- sheep
18:25:22  <__ln__> correctomundo
18:26:55  <andythenorth> V453000: engines aren’t matttering so much eh
18:27:31  <supermop_> oh god these faceless armless minifigs from the 70s are creepy
18:27:41  <V453000> XD well well
18:29:01  <andythenorth> eh generations only need to alternate eh
18:30:47  <andythenorth> V453000: more X
18:30:47  <V453000> omg he's getting ideas again
18:30:55  <andythenorth> can alternate X, no X
18:31:08  <andythenorth> anyone with ‘never expire’ on can suck it :)
18:31:13  <V453000> I would move X 1 pixel up and make it rather fatter instead of super brighter
18:31:27  <andythenorth> yeah, X sucks a bit
18:31:42  <andythenorth> could just have one door and do super fat X
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18:43:33  <andythenorth> V453000:
18:45:19  <Alberth> you can make one without a clear door
18:45:35  <Alberth> or door without holes
18:46:54  <V453000> nice
18:47:08  <andythenorth> V453000: sucks a bit, but might keep the idea
18:48:24  <Alberth> or door not in the middle
18:58:56  <andythenorth> it’s quite a big X :)
18:59:06  <andythenorth> door at one end?
18:59:09  <andythenorth> asymmetry :P
18:59:24  <Wolf01>$_35.JPG
18:59:30  <Wolf01> ^ win
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19:00:34  <Wolf01> and something like this? More uniform plates instead of a grid?
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19:01:09  <andythenorth> lego one is winning
19:02:36  <andythenorth> slavish dedictation to original is limiting options :D
19:02:38  <andythenorth>
19:02:50  * andythenorth might have to adjust goals
19:03:43  <supermop_> try a / or V instead of X
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19:13:17  <V453000> :D slave
19:16:00  <andythenorth> V won’t work
19:17:26  <V453000> obviously
19:17:34  <V453000> V never works
19:20:03  <V453000> I'm experimenting with using a HDRI environment for orthographic rendering
19:20:10  <V453000> seems to help quite a bit with reflective materials
19:24:47  <V453000> I think I realized a stupid but probably working idea for toylandz
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19:25:45  <andythenorth> such landz
19:35:04  <V453000> so
19:35:10  <V453000> I posted text in some forums
19:35:34  <V453000> I said it would be idea if toyland was hostily environment with crystals ... dude wrote me PM that it's basically starcraft
19:35:36  <V453000> asshole is right
19:35:38  <V453000> so
19:35:45  <V453000> instead of hostile environment it's ultra unhostile
19:36:00  <V453000> -> there will be money growing from the ground
19:36:35  <Wolf01> Then is C&C
19:37:02  <V453000> LMFAO
19:37:03  <V453000> :D
19:37:04  <V453000> no escape
19:38:29  <Wolf01> They can rain from the sky... no wait, it's Dragonshard
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19:43:00  <Wolf01> opengfx+ road vehicles has trams too?
19:48:30  <supermop_> yep
19:48:33  <supermop_> only 3
19:48:50  <supermop_> my set arose as an attempt to improve them
19:51:17  <andythenorth> is it bedtime?
19:51:23  <supermop_> c&c economy?
19:54:52  <V453000> just $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$
19:55:29  <supermop_> must build silos to hold the $
19:57:23  <V453000> :D trees have 2 millions of polygons :D
19:57:24  <V453000> :D
19:58:30  <andythenorth> errr
19:58:42  <andythenorth> log cars (only wood), or stake cars (many refits)?
19:58:54  <andythenorth> Hog has log truck, wood only
19:59:01  <andythenorth> Sam will have log tug, wood only
19:59:17  <andythenorth> original TTD has wood truck, wood only
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20:09:46  <Wolf01> Mmmh, the automated timetables in JGRpp is really good
20:11:38  <andythenorth> rly?
20:12:02  <Wolf01> Yes, autoseparation works and vehicles are on time
20:12:30  <andythenorth> for ships?
20:12:35  <Wolf01> Not tried
20:12:48  <Wolf01> I'm just browsing the features of JGRpp
20:12:52  <andythenorth> does it automatically set everything up for you?
20:12:58  <Wolf01> Yes
20:13:06  * andythenorth hasn’t tried that feature
20:13:13  <andythenorth> I tried a few others
20:13:20  <V453000> interesting
20:13:24  <Wolf01> I just purchased vehicles, added a route, started all and let them separate automatically
20:13:29  <andythenorth> if timetables was just ‘distribute vehicles’ I might be convinced
20:14:21  <V453000> would sound reasonable even to me
20:14:35  <Wolf01> Now one or two are just 1 minute late... eh, daylength enabled too because yes
20:14:45  <V453000> assuming the current method of defining exact stopping times would still work
20:15:55  <Wolf01> Yes, you can toggle the "automate" button
20:16:11  <V453000> automation is always on in my world
20:16:20  <Wolf01> I would play only with automate active and glued in place
20:16:56  <andythenorth> that is quite compelling if it works
20:16:57  <Wolf01> Mmmh slaves aren't making enough money
20:17:06  <andythenorth> setting up timetables sounds like worst gameplay idea ever
20:17:16  <andythenorth> automatically preventing vehicles from bunching is fine
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20:18:19  <Wolf01> Also the polyline for tracks
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20:19:34  <V453000> :D
20:19:34  <V453000>
20:19:39  <V453000> will need some more love but well :D
20:19:45  <V453000> concept iz
20:19:46  <andythenorth> polyline irritated me a lot
20:19:58  <andythenorth> V453000: so very Micro Machines
20:20:23  <Wolf01> Polyline coule be handled a bit differently
20:20:39  <V453000> you mean 2.5 stars out of 5, mostly negative reviews at 26% positive?
20:20:42  <V453000> THANKS I GUESS
20:20:44  <V453000> :D :D
20:21:10  <andythenorth> whatever concept you have now, we find a game to match
20:21:10  <V453000>
20:21:13  <andythenorth> winning
20:21:22  <V453000> yeah I'll just go with this
20:21:25  <V453000> money everywhere
20:21:30  <V453000> tycoon $$$$$
20:21:35  <andythenorth> are they chocolate coins?
20:21:45  <V453000> no it's just wrong shaders
20:21:49  <andythenorth> should be chocolate
20:21:57  <V453000> eh
20:21:57  <andythenorth> but wrapped in that gold foil stuff
20:22:06  <V453000> can be left to player's imagination what's inside :P
20:22:09  <V453000> yes I understand
20:22:17  <andythenorth>
20:22:18  <andythenorth> Z_SWanyA-aVgAaZ_Z-oDA
20:22:26  <V453000> arr
20:22:26  <andythenorth> no you can do seasons and stuff
20:22:28  <V453000> we have that here as well
20:22:29  <andythenorth> gold falls off
20:22:37  <V453000> :D I am not sure
20:22:45  <andythenorth> I keep talking you get sure
20:22:51  <V453000> currently the pile just grows,I guess it could decrease instead
20:22:52  <andythenorth> probably sure not
20:22:54  <V453000> :D
20:23:01  <V453000> well, enough for today
20:23:05  <V453000> gnight
20:23:08  <andythenorth> nom nom
20:26:17  <Wolf01> Now I want chocolate
20:28:18  <Wolf01> Is just me or windmills (replacing transmitters in opengfx+ landscape) wobble a lot?
20:28:45  <Wolf01> Zoom >= 4x
20:29:03  * andythenorth bed
20:29:05  <andythenorth> bye :)
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20:30:16  <Wolf01> Other 2 things I love: zoning to show catchement areas and signs when you click on vehicles to show the orders in map
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22:12:27  <znf> Hi.
22:13:01  <znf> How do I make a town build higher density buildings? I keep extending it with road, hell, I even made an island, and yet all it builds are puny, tiny houses
22:14:07  <znf> I'm kind of stuck at around 27k population :-/
22:14:21  <znf> and I do meet the requirements to grow (it grows every 5 days)
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22:19:13  <ST2> znf: that happens in an online server or it's on a SP game? (if the 3nd, using any GS and with what settings?)
22:19:23  <ST2> 2nd*
22:19:46  <znf> It's a save from an online game, but I've started a local server to continue
22:20:18  <ST2> the online game used any kind of gamescript?
22:20:54  <znf> I'm kind of not used to the lingo, so not sure what you're saying about a script
22:20:58  <znf> can I check it in any way?
22:21:23  <ST2> well, I know some of the servers, where the save came from?
22:22:25  <znf>
22:22:30  <znf> they run a 8000-pop server
22:22:47  <ST2> ah, server 12
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22:24:07  <ST2> it runs a home made CB script (kinda simple) - it's so messed up into other GS's (merged) that's almost impossible to split and made it available on bananas
22:24:22  <ST2> once I tried and only got fails :(
22:24:49  <znf> also, is there a way to remove a restriction (no airplanes)?
22:24:50  <ST2> it happens that loading a game of there without the exact GS will go to regular town mechanics
22:25:20  <ST2> maybe on scenario editor - but never tried it
22:25:39  <znf> it takes /so/ long to grow
22:26:05  <ST2> probably because of road layout too: check different layouts here
22:26:11  <ST2> (thanks CityMania)
22:26:27  <znf> I have that, yes, 4x4
22:26:30  <znf> erm, 2x2
22:27:04  <znf>
22:27:06  <ST2> try the spiral ones
22:27:43  <ST2> and remember that towns grow like a spiral starting from town center
22:27:51  <ST2> those lakes kinda limits it
22:28:16  <znf> well, crap
22:28:19  <znf> ok, goodbye lake
22:28:46  <_dp_> big buldings grow closer to town center
22:28:58  <ST2> there's the CB master ^^
22:29:15  <_dp_> it's not much related to road layout or anything except for extra garbage taking valuable center spots
22:29:37  <znf> wish I knew how to demolish that industry :-/
22:29:56  <ST2> CTRL+ALT+C (if single player) xD
22:30:16  <_dp_> there is no way to destroy industries in mp unless you're on citymania servers
22:30:17  <ST2> or make it on scenario editor
22:30:48  <_dp_> and for sp, yes, magic bulldozer ftw)
22:31:16  <znf> damn it
22:33:30  <_dp_> in general in city-builder try to choose towns that have nothing close to their center and carefully plan your roads and tracks so it takes as little center space as possible
22:34:55  <_dp_> also stations can be moved out as town grows, even on btpro that's allowed I believe
22:35:22  <ST2> since it grows, move stations, yes
22:36:18  <ST2> requires a bit micromanagement, but worth the effort :)
22:37:57  <ST2> daaaamnnn... when I can't decide what series to watch, always end up watching Futurama xD
22:38:16  <znf> ok, got it, so there's no way to force building higher density in remote areas
22:38:20  <znf> just gotta let it grow :-/
22:42:24  <_dp_> yep
22:42:57  <_dp_> read this if you want to learn a bit more about town zones
22:45:26  <znf> do the Factories require all 3 types of cargo to create goods?
22:45:31  <znf> livestock/grain/steel?
22:45:35  <znf> or they can just do it with 2?
22:45:43  <_dp_> hm, though that article seems to be quite bad at explaining town zones but at least it tries...
22:45:47  <_dp_> any will do
22:45:59  <znf> cool, for a second it showed 0 creates production
22:46:09  <znf> yes, I've read that
22:46:35  <znf> oh wait, not that
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22:52:51  <znf> what's "terraforming limit reached"? :-|
22:53:21  <_dp_> as it says, too much terraforming :p
22:53:31  <znf> what does the limit refer to?
22:53:32  <_dp_> it will restore after a while
22:53:34  <znf> ah
22:53:49  <znf> so timed base
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23:07:51  <znf> also, how the hell do I actually renew vehicles in a depot?
23:07:57  <znf> I click the renew button but nothing happens
23:08:56  <ST2> maybe because server settings is without breakdowns - I guess only works correctly if you use to replace by another vehicle
23:08:57  <znf> I mean the "autoreplace"
23:09:00  <znf> Ah.
23:09:08  <ST2> but I'm kinda rusty on there ^^
23:09:23  <znf> Is there a simpler way to renew a vehicle without buying a new one, clicking on orders, cloing the orders from the previous one etc. ?
23:09:44  <ST2> vehicles will never need a mechanic - unless you want to replace for a new model :)
23:10:12  <znf> Foster MK II should be available in 2008, and I'm 2009
23:10:15  <ST2>
23:10:15  <znf> but I don't see it yet
23:10:46  <ST2> the way it works it's similar to RV's
23:10:53  <Eddi|zuHause> znf: you set up autoreplace rules from the vehicle lists
23:11:07  <Eddi|zuHause> znf: only then the replace button actually does anything
23:11:41  <znf> ah, nice
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