Log for #openttd on 18th October 2017:
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00:36:40  <Gustavo6046> no
00:36:46  <Gustavo6046> what is that?
00:36:50  <Gustavo6046> a NewGRF? then no
00:36:57  <supermop> no it is a game setting
00:37:22  <supermop> with original acceleration even powerful trains struggle on hills
00:37:58  <supermop> with realistic acceleration, if a train already has a high speed and hits a small hill, it will not slow down much
00:38:55  <supermop> and also, with realistic acceleration on, you might notice that trains with several locomotives can at least take advantage of that extra power
00:39:53  <supermop> go to settings menu, -> vehicles -> physics
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06:03:49  <andythenorth> o/
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06:58:09  <V453000> andythenorth I think I have an ultimate plan for 32bpp wagons
06:58:28  <V453000> wagons come in multiple generations, that bit is obvious
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06:58:58  <V453000> and they share loading stages, say, 0-10 ... point is, using sprite layering I can use bottom-wagon-part, cargo, top-wagon-part
06:59:17  <V453000> so for example 1st generation has loading stages 1-3, second 1-5, third 1-6, last 1-10
06:59:40  <V453000> and the bottom-wagon-part and top-wagon-part changes with each generation, just respects the dimensions of the other wagons
06:59:45  <V453000> since all are 8/8, should work
06:59:53  <andythenorth> ok
06:59:58  <andythenorth> so wtf do they look like?
07:00:01  <andythenorth> and how many types?
07:00:05  <andythenorth> just one ultimate type?
07:00:12  <andythenorth> or original base set types?
07:00:22  <andythenorth> fricking wagons
07:00:25  <V453000> well it's going to be 1 wagon id, but the graphics will randomize
07:00:32  <andythenorth> so 1 ultimate
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07:00:41  <V453000> and cargo/wagon colours will adjust by colour masks
07:00:51  <andythenorth> wagons are the most neglected thing in newgrf
07:00:55  <V453000> so it's just 1 sprite per variation, and 1 cargo sprite per variation
07:00:59  <andythenorth> literally nobody has done better than base set yet
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07:01:28  <V453000> some nuts wagons are pretty good, but not consistent enough
07:01:54  <V453000> with this I am mainly trying to get the most variety with the least amount of sprites and the least amount of work :P
07:04:23  <V453000> the biggest issue will be see-through tankers :)
07:04:56  <V453000> but I think it wil work, will just need careful photoshitting ... but if it's "just a few" sprites instead of thousands, it's already much more convenient to work with
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07:27:42  * andythenorth bbl
07:27:43  <andythenorth> such
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08:07:00  <planetmaker> moin
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08:24:03  <V453000> yo
08:24:06  <V453000> :)
08:24:51  <crem> Yes, yo.
08:30:01  <andythenorth> hmm
08:30:04  <andythenorth> van-driving time
08:30:33  <andythenorth> biab
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09:02:20  <Wolf01> o/
09:03:47  <crem> \o
09:05:55  <crem> When people Western European countries have fever, where do they usually measure a body temperature? In exUSSR countries everyone measures under an arm, but it seems that in other countries the most popular is to measure in mouth.
09:07:35  <Wolf01> Ear, forehead, or armpit, depends on which instrument you have here
09:07:38  <milda> im swedish, and we measure mouth first, arm later.
09:07:40  <milda> butt third.
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13:26:16  <supermop_> mouth first in US
13:26:54  <supermop_> most households have oral thermometer. growing up we also had a forehead thermometer so we used that
13:34:00  <supermop_> typically don't need to make someone get undressed just to check their fever
13:35:03  <supermop_> also person with thermometer sticking out of their mouth is visual trope / gag for illness
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13:48:15  <crem> I once bought in-ear thermometer in US. Turned out it recalculated temperature to what it would be in mouth!
13:48:35  <crem> That's weird, as I never measured it in mouth.
13:49:29  <supermop_> the ear ones are kind of expensive
13:49:39  <supermop_> usually they are pretty fast though
13:51:15  <supermop_> most lay people here only know roughly healthy temperature for most people by mouth, and then maybe what their personal norm difference from that is
13:51:46  <supermop_> if it is a consumer facing product it is easier to give them a familiar reference
13:51:54  <crem> it somehow broke for me and now shows lower temperature than it should, by ~2 Kelvin.
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14:17:35  <supermop_> hmm i think i figured out why frosch's code doesn't progress beyond the 2nd livery
14:17:56  <V453000> cause it's shit!
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14:22:26  <Alberth> o/
14:22:50  <supermop_> hi Alberth
14:25:37  <supermop_>
14:26:08  <supermop_> there is no way for the A to B switches to every point to the B to C switches
14:26:14  <supermop_> *ever
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14:43:01  <Wolf01> Translate please: hochflur / niederflur... the only thing I understood is that's a corridor or a pavement, and visually doesn't change anything :|
14:49:17  <Gustavo6046> How does OpenTTD compute slopes?
14:53:22  <peter1139> Vague question
14:55:26  <supermop_> i think he means for acceleration
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14:59:30  <Gustavo6046> supermop_, no
14:59:31  <Gustavo6046> I mean
14:59:50  <Gustavo6046> how do you represent slope data from a multidimensional array (I call them areas) of integer heights.
14:59:58  <Gustavo6046> or would you
15:00:09  <Gustavo6046> since OpenTTD slopes are all 45°
15:00:45  <Alberth> they are all 0, +1, or -1 different from their surrounding points
15:01:28  <Alberth> you may want to look at how a heightmap is transformed
15:01:38  <Alberth> heightmap iamge, that is
15:01:42  <Alberth> *image
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15:27:47  <Gustavo6046> Alberth, what I want is to do a sci-fi Java... clone is not the right word... inspired work
15:28:27  <Gustavo6046> But I'm stumped on how the slopes should be generated; in my game, slopes are a quarter of inclination, so 45° = 50m difference = 4 internally.
15:28:42  <Gustavo6046> But they are stored in an array of points; each tile is four points.
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16:16:22  <supermop_> andythenorth: destinations for coffee sounds fine as a consequence of express distribution category to me
16:21:31  <supermop_> tbh i sometimes just make everything have distribution on
16:21:38  <supermop_> works fine
16:25:35  <Alberth> Gustavo6046: simplest is select random rectangle, and pull all points up or pull all points down by one. I a neighbour point becomes too far away ( < -1 or > 1) drag it up/down too, until all non-dragged neighbours are eitgher in the -1..1 range, or you run out of surface in the game area
16:25:49  <Alberth> s/I/If/
16:25:52  <Gustavo6046> ok
16:25:56  <Gustavo6046> thank you
16:26:01  <Gustavo6046> but nevermind anyway
16:26:14  <Gustavo6046> I've got a different strategy
16:26:29  <Alberth> ok
16:26:30  <Gustavo6046> my game will use slopes at any angle, with points at any height
16:27:21  <Alberth> that would work, if you draw tiles eg in a GPU, but not when you have fixed sprites, like OpenTTD
16:28:33  <Alberth> with current hardware your approach is very feasible, you see lots of games doing that
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16:49:50  <Wolf01> Quak, o/
16:50:16  <frosch123> moo
16:58:18  <supermop_> frosch123: maybe this works better:
16:58:20  <supermop_>
16:59:50  <frosch123> line 169 probably should say 1985
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17:00:45  <frosch123> it's getting kind of long :p
17:01:47  <frosch123> anyway, does this still compile?
17:02:18  <supermop_> good catch
17:02:23  <frosch123> it seems to use 10 random bits when there are only 8
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17:04:30  <supermop_> haven't compiled it since i changed the 'default' of 'testdown_e4_x' to point to 'maybe_e4_x+1', but before that change it compiled fine
17:05:43  <supermop_> the problem was that nothing in the livery B upgrade switch pointed to the livery c swtiches, so a tram could never upgrade farther than A -> B
17:06:02  <supermop_> but it did work very nicely in going from a to b
17:08:25  <supermop_> going to try compiling now
17:11:38  <frosch123> btw. i was wondering whether you should just upgrade one vehicle per month
17:12:38  <frosch123> you can check the train number via newgrf, and could then select the livery by "date + number*30" or something
17:12:41  <supermop_> ooh
17:12:48  <supermop_> that could be cool
17:13:05  <supermop_> huh
17:13:30  <supermop_> also
17:14:10  <supermop_> date_of_last_service returns a yyyy,mm,dd. is there an easy way to get just the yyy from that?
17:14:14  <supermop_> yyyy
17:14:26  <frosch123> divide by 365
17:14:34  <frosch123> and offset by 2 years of leap days
17:14:54  <frosch123> (date_of_last_service / 365 - 2)
17:15:06  <frosch123> should be good-enough (tm)
17:15:55  <supermop_> because i was thinking of a non-random way, where you just get the year of last service
17:15:56  <frosch123> well, maybe 500 leap days is closer to 1 year
17:16:29  <supermop_> and make livery based on what range the year of last service falls into
17:17:12  <frosch123> you can create a lot of seeminly-random data from variable
17:17:15  <frosch123> like "age in days"
17:18:33  <frosch123> "date + (age_in_days mod 32)*30" and similar
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17:19:39  <frosch123> err, i mean "date + ((date-age_in_days) mod 32)*30"
17:20:21  <frosch123> or even easier, use the random bits to compute a upgrade year
17:20:36  <frosch123> "date + (random_bits mod 32)*30"
17:21:18  <frosch123> hmm, the more i think about it, the random_switch thingie was kind of stupid :p
17:22:47  <supermop_> well it compiled fine
17:23:05  <supermop_> let's see how it works
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17:26:26  <supermop_> actually maybe i will get lunch first
17:28:58  <frosch123> <- everything in one switch
17:29:04  <frosch123> almost borign
17:29:11  <supermop_> clapping emoji
17:29:28  <supermop_> not sure if emoji works in irc so just imagine it
17:29:42  <frosch123> emoji only have heads, so does that mean headbanging emoji?
17:29:54  <andythenorth> 👏
17:29:55  <supermop_> haha sure
17:30:21  <supermop_> yeah this takes me from like 180 lines to 11
17:30:42  <supermop_> so ill need to find some other thing to make stupidly complex to compensate
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18:02:03  <supermop_> a guy i interviewed with just texted to ask if it would be ok to send me a job offer
18:02:14  <supermop_> why not just email the offer
18:02:36  <frosch123> maybe your boss reads all your mail
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18:05:51  <Gustavo6046> Is having 55M from 1950 to 2150 normal?
18:06:46  <Gustavo6046> I meant from 2030 to 2150
18:08:24  <frosch123> income growth exponentially
18:08:40  <frosch123> no matter how fast you build, you cannot win the "spend everything" battle
18:09:15  <Gustavo6046> True
18:09:46  <frosch123> though actualy... you can enable build-while-paused :)
18:10:18  <supermop_> frosch123: i find that is the only way to run out of money
18:10:32  <frosch123> anyway, various people set all costs to "low". high prices are no challenge in the long run, but only slow down the early game
18:10:53  <frosch123> so, "high prices" = "boring"
18:11:33  <frosch123> which is completely different to new players thinking "high prices" = "challenging" :p
18:11:45  <supermop_> what we need is extortionate train costs
18:12:01  <supermop_> so the manufacturer sets your price based on how much money you have
18:12:10  <supermop_> or a non-stupid inflation
18:12:47  <frosch123> what, an american with communist ideas? :p
18:12:57  <supermop_> ha
18:13:10  <supermop_> frosch123: you must no know many young americans
18:13:38  <supermop_> also; it's purely capitalist on the part of the train manufacturer
18:13:43  <frosch123> my sister-in-law is american
18:15:03  <supermop_> so is mine!
18:15:07  <frosch123> :p
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19:45:10  <supermop_> maybe i should let flatbeds carry scrap
19:45:23  <supermop_> and recolor tram bodies to be rusted out as cargo
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19:45:57  <supermop_> although dumping a whole tram into the arc furnace is a bit silly
19:46:07  <andythenorth> seems reasonable to me
19:46:43  <supermop_> i think this grf is almost a grf
19:46:53  <supermop_> need to add the purchase sprites
19:47:25  <supermop_> maybe adjust some costs and capacities
19:47:32  <supermop_> but seems generally playable
19:59:53  <andythenorth> yay :)
20:00:00  <andythenorth> Horse is…fucked :)
20:00:02  <andythenorth> nvm
20:00:08  <V453000> :D
20:00:27  <andythenorth> every move I make to fix it causes a new problem
20:00:32  <andythenorth> it’s like some horrible puzzle game
20:00:34  * V453000 has procrastinated with OpenRCT2 for the last 2 evenings
20:00:36  <andythenorth> or Rubik’s Kube
20:00:38  <V453000> lost the scenario
20:00:39  <V453000> :0
20:00:41  <V453000> haha
20:01:07  <andythenorth> winning
20:01:56  <V453000> now I'm kind of triggered and want to do it again
20:02:49  <andythenorth> yup
20:04:04  <V453000> but almost finished with brix tracks
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20:06:14  <V453000> last rail touches, fix roads, ship shit
20:06:22  <V453000> I could do endless amount of more stuff but eh
20:06:38  <V453000> clearly losing focus in the last few weeks
20:06:49  <V453000> procrastinating with RCT and thinking about new train set
20:06:50  <andythenorth> sometimes the only solution is to go over the top
20:06:53  <andythenorth> and then stop :P
20:07:35  <V453000> BRIX is kind of stable from my local using and I can always improve it if I really want
20:07:47  <V453000> and the progress from 0.0.1 is undescribable
20:09:52  <andythenorth> such awesome
20:14:30  <supermop_> hmm can remember how to resize a bunch of photos at once as a batch
20:16:06  <V453000> snake language
20:16:10  <V453000> :P
20:16:19  <V453000> doesn't irfan view support it?
20:16:32  <V453000>
20:16:43  <andythenorth> photostrop
20:16:47  <andythenorth> automate / actions palette
20:17:06  <V453000> yeah or that
20:17:17  <V453000> though I never really ventured in that direction I must admit
20:17:25  <V453000> idk why I never did actually
20:17:26  <andythenorth> it’s kind of shit
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20:17:31  <V453000> is it
20:17:32  <andythenorth> it’s so nearly great
20:17:38  <V453000> I mostly heard it's awesomey
20:18:02  <andythenorth> how about after effects?
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20:18:11  <andythenorth> import the folder as image sequence to a timeline
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20:18:20  <andythenorth> then resize that timeline on another timeline
20:18:26  <andythenorth> then re-export as image sequence
20:18:27  <andythenorth> winner
20:18:34  <andythenorth> AE solves everything
20:18:43  <supermop_> hmm
20:18:52  <supermop_> dont have that on work computer
20:18:55  <V453000> After Effects is about the worst program for scaling pictures
20:19:02  <andythenorth> you mean best
20:19:04  <V453000> you can't choose the algorithm and the one it uses is about the worst I ever saw
20:19:05  <andythenorth> you mistyped :P
20:19:22  <V453000> in fact it's one of the last things I am doing with BRIX
20:19:24  <andythenorth> don’t you set the timeline codec?
20:19:29  <andythenorth> it’s been years since I used it :P
20:19:34  <andythenorth> is the timeline codec-independent?
20:19:46  <V453000> exporting parts befor scaling, scaling in python, and then reimporting
20:19:56  <V453000> I don't think the timeline is codec dependent
20:20:08  * andythenorth used to use it for anamorphic 16:9, where the pixels aren’t square
20:20:15  <andythenorth> and other weird broadcast shit
20:20:17  <V453000> and I don't think there is any way to influence the timeline by some way except purchasing expensive 3rd party downscaling software
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20:20:27  <V453000> that's some weird shit :)
20:20:35  <andythenorth> making pixels work on analogue CRT was special
20:20:42  <V453000> :)
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20:20:54  <andythenorth> have to clamp white, because there’s a max intensity
20:21:00  <V453000> well, yeah ... AE is great in many ways but scaling is just holy shit bad
20:21:03  <andythenorth> and CRT pixels bleed
20:21:10  <andythenorth> also some red flickers
20:21:11  <V453000> if you discover something that breaks my illusion there, please tell me :D
20:21:22  * andythenorth doesn’t even have AE any more
20:21:28  <andythenorth> just Photostrop
20:21:36  <andythenorth> which per-day, costs me more than the mac it’s running on
20:21:43  <andythenorth> best not to think about that
20:22:25  <V453000> really?
20:22:39  <V453000> hm actually yeah
20:22:48  <V453000> well I'm paying the full cloud for 60e
20:23:03  <V453000> which yeah, is same as my pc price in 5 years
20:23:06  <V453000> time to reconsider :D
20:23:09  <V453000> ?
20:23:18  <andythenorth> my maths is off, photoshop is £0.66 / day
20:23:27  <andythenorth> the mac is £2 / day
20:23:42  <andythenorth> but if I had creative cloud, £1.63 / day
20:23:58  <andythenorth> blah
20:24:03  <V453000> hm so I pay 60, that makes 720e per year, say 3500 for 5 years
20:24:12  <andythenorth> if I was working freelance, £300 / day billable
20:24:16  <V453000> my computer had cost about 4000e
20:24:18  <V453000> ._.
20:24:19  <V453000> fuck
20:24:22  <andythenorth> yeah
20:24:26  <V453000> and I thought the computer was expensive
20:24:27  <andythenorth> computer hardware is cheap
20:24:39  * andythenorth sells SaaS for a reason :P
20:24:49  <V453000> yeah, subsription pricing has it's reasons
20:25:36  <V453000> well, shit can I do, it's an important part of my worlflow :)
20:25:41  <andythenorth> I once had argument about buying computers for new employees
20:25:52  <andythenorth> someone else thought we shouldn’t be spending money on expensive computers
20:26:11  <andythenorth> but did think we needed the staff
20:26:18  <andythenorth> computer: £2 / day
20:26:23  <andythenorth> staff: £200 / day
20:26:29  <andythenorth> such
20:26:36  <V453000> hehe
20:28:14  <andythenorth> Horse problems
20:28:25  <andythenorth> so many
20:28:55  <andythenorth> problem: adding wagons because they’re fun to draw
20:28:58  <andythenorth> no gameplay reason
20:29:24  <V453000> well roads are fixed :> was surprisingly easy
20:29:24  <andythenorth> problem: not adding wagons, because can’t figure out what to draw :P
20:29:30  <andythenorth> winning
20:29:37  <Eddi|zuHause> "In a belgian village all the clocks run wrong, because they temporarily switched the power grid to 51Hz during construction work"
20:32:12  <V453000> :D
20:32:22  <V453000> well maybe don't add them then andythenorth
20:32:27  <V453000> you can always add in future versions
20:32:36  <V453000> it's not like nuts had all the vehicles from 0.0.1
20:32:42  <V453000> probably like half
20:33:17  <V453000> you might even discover you don't need them later
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20:45:38  <andythenorth> I have been deleting them
20:45:49  <andythenorth> possibly winning strategy
20:45:50  <andythenorth> also bed
20:45:53  <andythenorth> bye
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21:41:34  <supermop_> do i need a switch for purchase sprite, or can i just do "purchase: spriteset_x" in graphics section
21:45:40  <Eddi|zuHause> can have a spriteset directly
21:46:57  <supermop_> nice
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22:26:16  <Gustavo6046_> guys
22:26:35  <Wolf01> Ladies
22:26:38  <Gustavo6046_> :P
22:27:05  <Gustavo6046_> Maps could be divided into one or more Nations, where nation territory has laws, borders have limits, and unclaimed territory has far less towns but still industries.
22:31:26  <Eddi|zuHause> sure... make a game script...
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22:32:07  <Gustavo6046_> Game script? Don't these like just do game conditions and stuff?
22:33:18  <Gustavo6046_> ooh Squirrel
22:33:18  <Eddi|zuHause> yeah, conditions like what law applies where, and stuff like draw borders by placing fences on tiles?
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23:25:11  <Wolf01> 'night
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