Log for #openttd on 25th October 2017:
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00:06:04  *** Samu has quit IRC
00:07:36  *** firsquestion has joined #openttd
00:07:49  <firsquestion> hello
00:08:11  <firsquestion> is this the right place to ask openttd / FIRS questions?
00:09:55  <firsquestion> i want to know if the devs know about the MD5 mismatch for the latest version of FIRS (v3 alpha 10)
00:10:44  <firsquestion> is anyone here?
00:11:56  <Sylf> You should always just ask the main question
00:12:07  <Sylf> Someone will come around and answer it eventually
00:12:08  <firsquestion> sorry im new here
00:12:59  <firsquestion> but with the latest FIR 3, the MD5 hash for the openttd bananas server is "34 20 b9 7b 1b 84 19 4e d7 df 6f b7 8b 17 d8 f2" but the version, which seems to be the main FIRS site  has an MD5 hash of 15 b9 63 1d b0 8d 31 99 33 32 27 9e 97 7d 5c c9
00:13:13  <firsquestion> so this "firs.grf" creates a mismatch
00:13:42  <firsquestion> im not sure which firs.grf is the main one that everyone in a server should use
00:14:44  <Sylf> When you try to join a server, it shows if you have all the needed newgrf.  If not, it gives an option to attempt to download the right version on the spot from the official downloader system (bananas)
00:15:09  <firsquestion> yeah, and it said there was a mismatch since there are apparently 2 different firs.grf files, when they should be identical
00:15:11  <Sylf> so you don't need to try ti find all those md5 hash and stuff that's beyond what some of us would like to care about
00:15:26  <firsquestion> they both claim to be v3.0 alpha 10, but the mismatch means they are not identical
00:15:50  <firsquestion> with all of the other NewGRFs ive dl with the content program they all matched just fine
00:16:02  <firsquestion> but with the recent update to FIRS 3.0, there seems to be a problem
00:16:03  <Sylf> as long as you have a copy of the actual right version with the right md5 hash grfid and all that stuff, you can have multiple copies of firs
00:16:16  <Sylf> which server?
00:16:21  <firsquestion> but i need to know which version is the 'real' version
00:16:30  <firsquestion> bc a friend wanted to start an openttd server
00:16:51  <firsquestion> and they used the openttdcoop FIRS 3 which is apparently different from the bananas server
00:16:56  <Sylf> whichever version that's picked by the server is the correct version for that server.
00:17:08  <firsquestion> but which is the official FIRS version?
00:17:14  <firsquestion> bananas or openttdcoop?
00:17:16  <Sylf> Many versions.
00:17:30  <firsquestion> well which is the version that reddit uses?
00:17:31  <Sylf> There isn't a single official version.
00:17:39  <Sylf> So, just tell me which server you're trying to connect
00:17:46  <Sylf> Then I can tell what's going on.
00:17:53  <firsquestion> i guess im not understand why different versions are using the exact version number and filename.  that part doesnt make sense
00:17:56  <firsquestion> ing*
00:18:11  <firsquestion> the server is currently down now due to the mismatch
00:18:15  <Sylf> file name really doesn't matter.
00:18:21  <firsquestion> and he asked me to figure out which version is the official FIRS version
00:18:23  <Sylf> Version number sometimes doesn't matter eith.r
00:18:32  <firsquestion> well the md5 mismatch stopped the game
00:18:40  <Sylf> Just tell me which server you're trying to connect, and THEN I can help you.
00:18:45  <firsquestion> we realized people had bananas versions from content, and the openttdcoop version
00:18:58  <firsquestion> the server is currently down now. you cant cannot to it
00:19:08  <Sylf> Which coop server are you trying to connect?
00:19:09  <firsquestion> he asked me to figure out which firs.grf is the official FIRS version
00:19:16  <Sylf> LISTEN
00:19:29  <firsquestion> its a person server thats down. you cannot connect to it
00:19:42  <firsquestion> he took it offline due to the mismatch
00:20:03  <firsquestion> and tasked me to figure out why theres a mismatch.  and thats why im here bc i dont understand why there are multiple firs.grf files
00:20:17  <Sylf> Tell him to bring it back online.
00:20:28  <Sylf> or her.
00:20:51  <firsquestion> but thats not the point . i just need to know which FIRS 3 is the 'correct' version
00:21:02  <Sylf> There is NO single correct version.
00:21:08  <Sylf> All versions are correct.
00:21:32  <Sylf> What version is correct for THAT PARTICULAR SERVER depends on what version of FIRS is used ON THAT SERVER.
00:21:37  <firsquestion> but dont you think thats confusing to have multiple files with the same name and version number and yet  a mismatch still occurs?
00:21:43  <Sylf> No.
00:21:55  <Sylf> When mismatch happens, you can download the correct version on the spot.
00:21:56  <firsquestion> do you work with FIRS?
00:21:59  <Sylf> Then you have the right version.
00:22:03  <Sylf> Yes, I play with FIRS.
00:22:14  <firsquestion> have you tried alpha 10 by any chance?
00:22:18  <Sylf> No.
00:22:27  <firsquestion> do you know someone who has?
00:22:34  <Sylf> Listen.
00:22:38  <Sylf> I know what's going on.
00:22:50  <Sylf> I've been playing this game for 7 years.
00:23:13  <glx> I think you should ask again in a more GB friendly time
00:23:16  <firsquestion> so its common to have the same filenames and version numbers but the md5 is radically different?
00:23:23  <firsquestion> bc i thought bananas was the central server to get all the newgrfs
00:23:37  <Sylf> Yes, bananas is.
00:23:48  <firsquestion>
00:23:52  <Sylf> But bananas also hosts MANY different versions - all historically released versions.
00:24:00  <firsquestion> bc right now for FIRS 3, bananas is listing 2 different sources
00:24:16  <Sylf> So it's best to download the version that's indicated as the correct version INSIDE the game.
00:24:21  <firsquestion> so why doesnt bananas have the other md5 version then?
00:24:33  <firsquestion> the one on that website is different from the linked openttdcoop one.  its just very confusing
00:24:37  <Sylf> Bananas WEBSITE only DISPLAYS the latest version.
00:24:47  <firsquestion> but it also has a dl link too
00:25:00  <Sylf> But the in-game downloader can detect and download the correct version for any given server, as long as it was ever published on bananas.
00:25:01  <firsquestion> and that part worked fine for alpha 9, but alpha 10 was different apparently
00:25:09  <Sylf> I give up.
00:25:13  <glx> newgrf version is not reliable, that's why MD5 is checked :)
00:25:28  <firsquestion> yeah so if there are different md5 versions, why doesnt bananas list the other versions?
00:25:40  <Sylf> Some times the grf author forgets to update the version string between two versions.
00:25:58  <firsquestion> so that means the FIRS openttdcoop version is alpha 11?
00:26:05  <glx> maybe
00:26:21  <firsquestion> is one of the FIRS devs in this room now?  maybe they can help me
00:26:40  <firsquestion> bc im just trying to find the latest version
00:26:41  <Sylf> Please, just DON'T download it from the bananas website.
00:26:58  <firsquestion> and doesnt the gamae downloader use the bananas website?
00:27:09  <firsquestion> or does it use a different server
00:27:12  <Sylf> Yes, but it can see more than what you see on the web site.
00:27:26  <Sylf> Actually, I take it back.
00:27:34  <firsquestion> so is there a website that lists all the different FIRS versions altogether?
00:27:38  <Sylf> bananas website is just a user interface to a bigger system called bananas.
00:27:44  <glx> that's why you should ask again at evening european time
00:28:06  <firsquestion> yeah it was my understanding that bananas was a central server and that if someone wants to host, they should go to bananas to get the newgrfs
00:28:13  <firsquestion> but then this mismatch occurred
00:28:31  <firsquestion> but it sounds like the website for bananas is not showing all the files
00:28:31  <Sylf> So, use the in-game downloader to download the right version for that server.
00:28:39  <firsquestion> so if there a bananas website that will show all the files?
00:28:45  <firsquestion> yeah the in game downloader gave me the wrong version
00:28:46  <Sylf> No.
00:28:47  <firsquestion> thats why im here
00:29:08  <firsquestion> bc the mismatch prevented the game from working
00:29:13  <Sylf> Please trust me, and use the in-game downloader.
00:29:21  <Sylf> How many times have I sad that so far already?
00:29:31  <Sylf> In-game downloader will solve your issue.
00:29:32  <glx> and download on the server page
00:29:33  <Sylf> Srsly.
00:29:44  <glx> not in main menu
00:29:48  <firsquestion> glx which page?
00:29:50  <Sylf> Oh, I forgot that that part.
00:30:01  <firsquestion> which server page
00:30:06  <Sylf> In the game, when you're trying to connect to the server, you can see the newgrf setting
00:30:19  <firsquestion> yeah it said mismatch in red
00:30:22  <glx> when you are joining a server you have the option to get missing newgrf
00:30:26  <Sylf> If there's a newgrf mismatch, you can open the dialog, and check which newgrf's are missing
00:30:38  <Sylf> on that window, there's also the button that lets you download the missing newgrfs
00:30:39  <firsquestion> well thats just it, they are both called alpha 10
00:30:51  <Sylf> Forget about alpha10
00:31:14  <Sylf> trust the game system, and let the game download the right version for you when you attempt to connect to a server.
00:31:25  <glx> in main menu you always get latest version, but in server page you get the required by server one
00:31:28  <firsquestion> yeah the dl the missing grf part didnt work
00:31:33  <firsquestion> does the server host have to config that?
00:32:12  <Sylf> If the dude who's hosting the server somehow got a version that was never released to the bananas, then that would be a problem.
00:32:37  <firsquestion> yeah he got his file from the FIRS website
00:32:42  <firsquestion> and that sent me down this rabbit hole
00:32:53  <Sylf> that's the problem.
00:32:53  <firsquestion> bc i get all of my newgrfs from bananas/content
00:33:09  <firsquestion> and i thought it had to be a bug since the filenames and versions are identical for some reason
00:33:10  <Sylf> He should use the version of firs that he can download in the game
00:33:32  <firsquestion> he said he couldnt get the content download to work on his server and had to install the newgrfs manually
00:33:38  <firsquestion> since he said everything is cmd line
00:33:51  <glx> it may be a newer version on FIRS site not uploaded to bananas yet
00:34:05  <firsquestion> yeah that part i dont know. all i know is that the md5 mismatch cause an issue
00:34:08  <Sylf> he can download things in-game over command line too.
00:34:25  <Sylf> have that server host come to the irc channel - that would be easier
00:34:41  <glx> he can also download files on a client and then copy them on his server
00:35:03  <firsquestion> can you give me the cmd line code to tell him?  hes on a different irc server
00:35:10  <Sylf> rcon commands are good enough for in-game download of newgrfs
00:35:46  <firsquestion> so which rcon command would he type to get to to download latest ver of FIRS 3 and FIRS + ECS?
00:36:39  <Sylf> rcon content update
00:36:43  <Sylf> rcon content select all
00:36:50  <Sylf> rcon content download
00:36:59  <firsquestion> how to isolate the FIRS stuff?
00:37:00  <Sylf> that should download all versions available on bananas
00:37:28  <Sylf> rcon help content
00:37:36  <glx>
00:38:09  <glx> rcon content state firs
00:38:35  <Sylf> rcon content state FIRS
00:38:42  <Sylf> D:  too slow
00:38:56  <firsquestion> is it case senstive?
00:39:10  <glx> probably not sensitive
00:39:15  <firsquestion> he says rcon isnt grabbing the files
00:39:22  <firsquestion> does he need to config something else to get it to work?
00:39:32  <glx> content state gives the id
00:39:36  <Sylf> he needs to have rcon password set in the openttd.cfg
00:39:46  <Sylf> and pass the rcon password with each rcon command
00:39:46  <glx> then rcon select <id>
00:39:51  <firsquestion> how does he get the pw?
00:40:01  <glx> it's set in cfg
00:40:04  <Sylf> vim openttd.cfg
00:40:27  <firsquestion> he said he already set the pw in the cfg
00:40:30  <firsquestion> what else can he check
00:40:41  <Sylf> help rcon
00:40:51  <Sylf> so, those commands would be more like
00:40:54  <glx> first step is always "rcon content update"
00:41:02  <Sylf> rcon password 'content update'
00:41:13  <Sylf> rcon password 'content select 4865'
00:41:19  <Sylf> rcon password 'content download'
00:41:21  <Sylf> etc
00:41:33  <firsquestion> he says it fails to dl and doesnt return an error
00:41:55  <Sylf> where is he running those commands?
00:42:06  <Sylf> from a client that's connected to the server?
00:42:12  <firsquestion> the server is all cmd line
00:42:14  <firsquestion> no gui
00:42:19  <firsquestion> so he just rcons thru there
00:42:27  <Sylf> then that's not rcon
00:42:27  <firsquestion> it doesnt have a client
00:42:41  <glx> oh skip rcon if there's local access to the consol
00:42:42  <Sylf> rcon is remote control
00:42:50  <firsquestion> glx so what should he do?
00:42:55  <Sylf> content update
00:42:59  <Sylf> content select XXXX
00:43:01  <Sylf> content download
00:43:08  <firsquestion> Sylf: he says that keeps failing
00:43:17  <firsquestion> it just doesnt dl anything apparently
00:43:21  <glx> Wait until "Content server connection closed" is printed in the console.
00:43:26  <Sylf> We really need that guy in this channel.
00:43:36  <Sylf> Can't he connect to 2 irc servers?
00:43:44  <glx> of course he can :)
00:43:54  <glx> I'm on 4 servers
00:43:59  <firsquestion> unfortunately he says he doesnt want to go to another server
00:44:07  <firsquestion> >_<
00:44:46  <glx> @ports
00:44:46  <DorpsGek> glx: OpenTTD uses TCP and UDP port 3979 for server <-> client communication, UDP port 3978 for masterserver (advertise) communication (outbound), and TCP port 3978 for content service, a.k.a. BaNaNaS (outbound)
00:45:36  <glx> just in case it's a firewall problem, but outbound connections should not be a problem
00:47:55  <glx> anyway after typing "content update" he has to wait until "Content server connection closed" is printed in the console.
00:49:27  <glx> because the list is retrieved asynchronly I think
00:50:59  <firsquestion> hes also asking what is the content download folder for a server?
00:51:05  <firsquestion> where*
00:51:15  <Sylf> it worked for me to download when I tried the commands before I saw the server connection closed message
00:51:42  <firsquestion> he also tells me hes forced to manually unpack the tar files
00:51:47  <firsquestion> shouldnt content dl do this for him?
00:51:51  <glx> no need to unpack tar
00:51:58  <firsquestion> so what is he doing wrong?
00:52:07  <glx> openttd just reads them natively
00:52:09  <firsquestion> he says he only see the tars
00:52:23  <Sylf> don't forget rescannewgrf command after download is done
00:52:44  <Sylf> and don't forget to update the openttd.cfg to use the right version of firs
00:52:48  <firsquestion> rcon rescan newgrf?
00:53:05  <Sylf> just rescannewgrf
00:53:12  <Sylf> because he's not using rcon
00:57:17  <firsquestion> he says rescannewgrf isnt working
01:00:13  <glx> hmm isn't rescannewgrf a dev command ?
01:00:39  <Sylf> Sorry, but "it isn't working" doesn't allow us to help you much
01:01:13  <Sylf> we have no idea what's exactly not working, how it's not working... like what exact command was used, what the user exepected to see, what he user exactly saw in reality, etc
01:01:44  <Sylf> rescannewgrf is a pretty generic command to me
01:01:52  <Sylf> it's listed in list_cmds
01:01:53  <firsquestion> well the other thing i want to know is that, i had alpha 9 and then told content dl to get firs 3 alpha 10
01:02:03  <firsquestion> but now my alpha 9 file is no longer listed under 'active newgrf files'
01:02:12  <firsquestion> its apparently gone.  is that normal?  you cant have more than one version listed?
01:02:25  <Sylf> there's an option somewhere to display all the versions that you have.
01:02:33  <firsquestion> how?
01:03:34  <Sylf> cheking...
01:03:38  <glx> set newgrf_show_old_versions 1
01:03:58  <firsquestion> ok let me try that
01:03:59  <Sylf> <-- too slow again D:
01:04:11  <glx> I had the wiki opened ;)
01:04:22  <Sylf> I was searching in openttd.cfg :P
01:04:37  <firsquestion> so that option cannot be set in game?
01:04:43  <Sylf> yes you can
01:04:44  <firsquestion> i dont see it in Settings
01:04:52  <firsquestion> different name?
01:04:56  <Sylf> hit ` key (or whatever key to the left of 1)
01:04:59  <glx> it's in the console only
01:05:03  <Sylf> that opens the command interface
01:05:10  <Sylf> and type in that command in that console
01:05:17  <firsquestion> oh so theres no gui for this?
01:05:24  <Sylf> apparently not
01:05:47  <glx> you usually don't want to see old stuff
01:05:51  <firsquestion> ok i pressed ` and typed it in
01:05:56  <firsquestion> but pressign enter didnt do anything
01:06:07  <Sylf> close the newgrf window and open it again
01:06:08  <glx> now open the dialogs as before
01:06:37  <firsquestion> its still not listing the older version
01:07:08  <glx> maybe be it also needs "set newgrf_developer_tools 1"
01:07:14  <firsquestion> ah there it goes
01:07:18  <firsquestion> i pressed ` in a different spot
01:07:38  <firsquestion> but thanks for the help! :)
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01:20:41  <firsquestion> so on his server he still says that while content is download the tar files, the server still doesnt recognize the tar files as newgrf
01:20:50  <firsquestion> is there another setting he has to do to get it to recognize?
01:21:38  <Sylf> how did he determine that it doesn't recognize the tar files as newgrf?
01:22:46  <firsquestion> he launches the server and the newgrf isnt listed
01:23:08  <firsquestion> he keeps telling me he has to manually extract the tars to get the newgrfs
01:23:14  <firsquestion> and i told him the game should do that automatically
01:23:18  <Sylf> What does "the newgrf sin't listed" mean?  Where does he expect to see it?
01:23:28  <firsquestion> the server loads and newgrf isnt loaded
01:23:36  <firsquestion> but he says content dl is just dl the tar file
01:23:56  <Sylf> yes, and that's all the game needs.
01:24:10  <Sylf> Has he edited openttd.cfg?
01:24:13  <firsquestion> yeo
01:24:14  <firsquestion> yep
01:24:29  <firsquestion> but he still says it doesnt work unless he extracts the tar files
01:24:44  <glx> is he using a savegame ?
01:24:55  <firsquestion> no
01:25:12  <Sylf> did he compile the game himself?
01:25:44  <Sylf> maybe he didn't have all the dev libraries, and it's not compiled with tar support?
01:25:47  <Sylf> I dunno.
01:26:05  <glx> tar doesn't require a lib
01:26:19  <Sylf> I wouldn't think so
01:26:35  <Sylf> but if he claims that it works when he untars the file... then I dunno
01:26:56  <Sylf> tar file works perfectly for me
01:27:13  <glx> maybe it's just a mistake in openttd.cfg
01:27:53  <Sylf> oh, yeah, if he edits openttd.cfg manually, the newgrf line probably looks different
01:28:29  <firsquestion> so is there a way he can do this without having to manually edit the cfg?
01:29:14  <Sylf> he can open openttd locally, set up newgrf locally, exit the game (which writes the correct version of openttd.cfg) and upload the cfg to the server
01:29:52  <Sylf> or, create a map locally, and upload the .sav file, and load the .sav file on the server
01:30:18  <firsquestion> well he doesnt use save files to start with
01:30:30  <firsquestion> i just dont understand why his server doesnt use the tars automatically
01:31:05  <glx> probably just a mistake in cfg
01:31:16  <Sylf> can we see the [newgrf] section of the cfg, maybe paste it on
01:33:15  <firsquestion> ill ask
01:34:47  <glx> should be something like grfid|md5|tarname/newgrf.grf
01:35:17  <glx> with some optional parts
01:35:26  <Sylf> probably
01:35:35  <Sylf> F1250007|67611437534CD7C36BEF40A74063EF4B|firs_industry_replacement_set_3-3.0.0alpha10/firs.grf = 0 0 0 0 0 0 16 150 80 300
01:35:59  <Sylf> That's what I got when I loaded firs3 tar
01:38:06  <firsquestion> it looks like hes not available right now
01:38:15  <Sylf> o_O  and my local copy of tar file doesn't have all-lower-case file name
01:38:33  <firsquestion> but when he comes back is there anything else i should tell him to try to fix the tar issue?
01:39:04  <glx> I think the issue is just an error in openttd.cfg
01:39:08  <Sylf> copy/paste the line I pasted and try that?
01:39:48  <glx> the best way to configure newgrf for a server is to do it in a client
01:40:09  <glx> using the GUI
01:40:16  <Sylf> I concur
01:43:26  <firsquestion> ok i have the openttd cfg i just have to post it
01:43:56  <firsquestion>  version_string = 1.7.1 version_number = 17186CE9  [newgrf] 44440A01|FCEEC76CF44EC23E7FE9C88048CF11CC|av8_Aviators_Aircraft_Set-2.21/pb_av8w.grf =  54570101|E25D564F7F8F4B3AC6C7F375BD25B387|ussetw.grf =  41501202|B13DD8FB0D7C34CACAC2FE68BD137BB9|heqs.grf =  F1250007|67611437534CD7C36BEF40A74063EF4B|FIRS_Industry_Replacement_Set_3-3.0.0alpha10/firs.grf =  4A530117|CA32127C974FD70434F9CA4E0AD4A501|EFrefit.grf =   [newgrf-static]
01:44:20  <firsquestion> he told me had to manually extract the files to get  the server to recognize them
01:47:03  <firsquestion> so can you see why it never wants to use the tar files from the cfg?
01:47:30  <Sylf> The only things that's different from my cfg line are
01:47:56  <Sylf> my line has all lower case file name, even when I'm on a system that cares about file name case sensitivity (linux)
01:48:19  <Sylf> and my line has extra values after =, which are the newgrf default values, I assume.
01:48:44  <firsquestion> so why are his uppercase?
01:48:59  <Sylf> Because he edited it by hand?
01:49:10  <Sylf> I can try his version and see
01:49:50  <Sylf> it works great here.
01:50:27  <Sylf> with ~/.openttd/content_download/newgrf/FIRS_Industry_Replacement_Set_3-3.0.0alpha10.tar in place
01:52:07  <firsquestion> can you copy and paste the full newgrf file with the lowercase?
01:52:11  <Sylf> where did he get his openttd?  is his server running windows? linux? osx?
01:52:22  <firsquestion> i think its a linux box with only cmd line
01:52:30  <firsquestion> its an old comp
01:55:18  <Sylf> all lowercase would be ~/.openttd/content_download/newgrf/firs_industry_replacement_set_3-3.0.0alpha10.tar
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09:00:59  <Wolf01> o/
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09:30:47  <crem> \o
09:43:01  <SpComb> walk into the past... dug these up for historical curiosity :)
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09:46:55  <Wolf01> Nice
10:14:16  <SpComb>
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12:36:47  <Samu> how can I code this more efficiently?
12:36:58  <Samu> can you notice the repetition
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12:47:37  <dihedral> Samu: methods?
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13:24:04  <Borg> hi
13:24:26  <Borg> on wiki, ctrl+click on goto station means full load.. but it sets full load any.. instead
13:24:29  <Borg> im running 1.6.1
13:24:34  <Borg> is there a way to make full load default?
13:31:58  <Samu> hold shift
13:32:05  <Samu> or is it control?
13:32:33  <Samu> ctrl-left click
13:33:13  <Samu> ah, the "full load" all cargo?
13:33:20  <Samu> nope
13:33:46  <Samu> dihedral: what methods?
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13:36:21  <Borg> yeah, full load all cargo..
13:38:41  <Wolf01> It only works like that, make a patch with a settings to swap the behaviour
13:38:50  <dihedral> Samu: write a method to get rid of your repetition
13:44:53  <supermop> yo
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13:51:51  <Borg> Wolf01: yeah, would be nice to have extra options in seting to set default behavior of buttons in orders..
13:58:22  <supermop> hmm mother in law has sent me picture of ton of obi and kimono asking if i would like them
13:58:45  <supermop> could make the obi into Ties but seems like a shame to cut them up
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13:59:13  <supermop> don't know anyone whole would wear formal kimono and need an obi otherwise
14:03:03  <Samu> tried googling methods, i'm not sure what I need
14:03:18  <Wolf01> Samu, functions
14:03:43  <Wolf01> Usually a "method" is a function which doesn't return a value
14:04:11  <Wolf01> You should google programming school first
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14:14:40  <andythenorth> o/
14:15:20  <supermop> yo
14:15:37  <supermop> left thumb drive at home, no newgrf work today
14:18:28  <andythenorth> supermop:
14:19:29  <supermop> cute
14:19:48  <supermop> the triumph of laziness in industrial design
14:19:59  <supermop> aka Ives approach
14:20:01  <V453000> yo
14:20:37  <supermop> i quite like the electric fedex trucks that we've had in the city for a few years
14:21:12  <supermop>
14:22:22  <supermop> coke wore it better:
14:23:13  <supermop> apparently tesco have a few as well
14:23:42  <supermop> damn:
14:31:36  <Samu> for all stations that can be used from the list of all_stations, create another list of stations, then sort them by rating
14:34:18  <Samu> i need a way to get the number of stations I'm working with
14:34:49  <Samu> instead of st1, st2, st3 etc..., i get that number
14:36:08  <Samu> so if it finds 10 stations or 15 stations, I wanna distribute cargo to 10 or 15
14:36:12  <Samu> see what i mean?
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14:52:22  <supermop> i guess i could play a game for purposes other than checking sprite alignment
14:55:41  <V453000> :D:D:D
14:55:49  <V453000> no, there is no return
14:55:51  <Samu> im a terrible programmer, bla bla
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15:08:19  <Wolf01> Samu: try with stations_list.size()
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15:19:31  <supermop> wife's company offers 'ozone scented notebooks' as swag
15:19:48  <supermop> raises the question: who the hell enjoys the way ozone smells?
15:20:03  <Wolf01> I do
15:20:08  <supermop> people with fetish for electric arcing?
15:20:14  <Wolf01> Yup
15:20:30  <supermop> i always feel like im about to die when i smell it
15:20:49  <supermop> like im about to get electrocuted or be in a fire
15:20:49  <Wolf01> I always smell my electric zapper when I charge it
15:21:04  <Gustavo6046> Larger grids should be broken into areas, where each has equal properties in all of the tiles pertaining to the area. Each area generates quickly a list of tiles that connects to any other area, if any, This is an alternate way of viewing a large graph; natural graphs, like slopes with integer heights and large 50m increments, are favored, due to the amount of repeating tiles.
15:22:10  <supermop> my dad had old G or O scale model train from the 50s, that was set up in basement of my grandparents house
15:22:26  <supermop> motors in the train put out ton of ozone
15:22:47  <Gustavo6046> supermop, is that why you play OpenTTD?
15:23:09  <supermop> no risk of getting electrocuted
15:23:12  <Gustavo6046> I only play because it's a fun, and also a very flexible game. I'm looking for a fun game that's easy to mod for YEARS.
15:24:41  <Gustavo6046> People should do motors whose byproduct is ozone, not CO₂. That would help!
15:25:19  <supermop> Gustavo6046: not if you are standing near the exhaust
15:25:39  <supermop> also it takes more energy to make ozone than you'd get out
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15:26:10  <Wolf01> Quak
15:26:34  <frosch123> moo
15:26:51  <supermop> " Exposure of 0.1 to 1 μmol/mol produces headaches, burning eyes and irritation to the respiratory passages.[17] Even low concentrations of ozone in air are very destructive to organic materials such as latex, plastics and animal lung tissue."
15:27:11  <supermop> CO2 sounds nicer to breath than O3 in that case
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15:27:55  <Wolf01> Just like McDonalds
15:30:11  <Gustavo6046> okay.
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15:38:22  <DorpsGek> Commit by frosch :: r27928 /trunk/src (12 files) (2017-10-25 17:38:14 +0200 )
15:38:23  <DorpsGek> -Fix: [NewGRF] While executing random triggers, var 5F should include the new triggers.
15:38:24  <DorpsGek> -Fix: [NewGRF] Reset used random triggers only after all A123 chains have been resolved, so that all RA2 in all chains can test the shard triggers. This also includes multiple RA2 in the same A123 chain.
15:38:25  <DorpsGek> -Fix: [NewGRF] Industry random triggers are stored per tile, even when randomising the shared random bits of the parent industry.
15:38:28  <DorpsGek> Commit by frosch :: r27929 /trunk/src (3 files in 2 dirs) (2017-10-25 17:38:19 +0200 )
15:38:29  <DorpsGek> -Cleanup: Remove unused Industry::random_triggers
15:40:02  <frosch123> LordAro: look, commits noone understands :)
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15:41:53  <LordAro> \o/
15:44:31  <LordAro> frosch123: something mildly icky about all those waiting_trigger -> sprite resolve -> used_triggers blocks being duplicated like that, but...
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15:47:55  <frosch123> they are all slightly different, since they are stored in structs or in the map array
15:51:07  <LordAro> mm
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15:58:25  <Alberth> o/
15:59:04  <crem> \o
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16:04:49  <Samu> Wolf01: i was able to create a list! i can also retrieve the number of items in the list
16:05:18  <Samu> to add a station I do: used_stations.Include(st);
16:05:37  <Samu> to get the number of stations it added, I do: uint no_stations = used_stations.Length();
16:05:57  <Samu> now, how do I sort it by rating?
16:06:14  <Samu> highest rating first
16:06:19  <Samu> lowest rating, last
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16:09:14  <glx> hello
16:09:30  <Samu> hi
16:09:31  <frosch123> hoi
16:09:59  <Samu> frosh, are u fixing bugs?
16:10:32  <Samu> is this considered a bug?
16:12:32  <Samu> aircraft goes from 2000 km/h to 321 km/h in 1 tick
16:12:46  <Samu> bug or intended?
16:13:07  <ST2> frontal wind
16:14:23  <supermop> Samu: any behavior that was in TTO or TTD cannot really be called a bug, even if undesirable
16:15:13  <Samu> :(
16:15:50  <supermop> frosch123: no newgrf work today so haven't fixed long names yet, but other than that i think the grf is pretty functional
16:16:25  <supermop> just need to add a check to switch the door open side when drive side is set to left
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16:18:58  <frosch123> door sides on local trains are interesting
16:19:17  <frosch123> trams mostly have doors only on one side
16:19:23  <frosch123> subways can have them on both
16:20:05  <frosch123> once i was in a subway which opened doors on both sides in one station, and you could switch to different trains on either side
16:20:23  <Cubey> What city?
16:20:33  <frosch123> i never figured out whether people also passed through the train to get from the left to the right neighbout or vice versa
16:20:39  <frosch123> Cubey: i think that was singapore
16:20:50  <Cubey> Wow that sounds bizarre
16:22:13  <supermop> frosch123: a few termini here have that, some other stations used to have it
16:22:29  <supermop> there is also the 'spanish solution'
16:22:55  <supermop> where one side is for embarkation and the other of disembarkation
16:23:32  <Cubey> Like a roller coaster!
16:23:48  <frosch123> i did not see that, the doors were always first-out-second-in
16:23:49  <supermop> trams in australia, and LRV here in the US have cabs at both ends, so they can reverse without a loop.
16:24:09  <supermop> so they also have doors on both sides
16:24:35  <supermop> and where there are real platforms, sometimes it is an island, sometimes on the sides
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16:42:42  <frosch123> Cubey: <- it is this one
16:43:16  <frosch123> three tracks, the middle one is a terminus line, the outside ones are opposing directions of another line
16:43:43  <frosch123> so you can enter/leave the middle line to either direction of the outside line
16:43:52  <frosch123> while hte middle line only has one direction due to being teminus
16:44:27  <supermop> one track terminus seems odd
16:45:11  <frosch123> well, maybe terminus is the wrong name
16:45:25  <frosch123> but it's the airport-connector which ends at that station
16:45:44  <supermop> no, it is a terminus, just an odd choice from operational standpoint
16:45:46  <frosch123> and you can switch to the other line, which has two regular directions
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16:46:03  <supermop> as you loose some flexibility in lay-up of trains
16:46:26  <supermop> any train at the terminus absolutely must depart before the next one arrives
16:46:53  <supermop> so if it is late to leave, it will block the following train,
16:47:12  <frosch123> well, they all come and go from/to the same direction
16:47:19  <supermop> and if it needs to go out of service for some reason, it cannot easily do so there
16:49:45  <supermop> operations and movements at termini is maybe the thing about trains i am most interested in
16:50:01  <supermop> don't usually care that much about the trains themselves
16:58:50  <Wolf01> <frosch123> once i was in a subway which opened doors on both sides in one station, and you could switch to different trains on either side <- happened to me on one of the terminals in Tokio
16:59:31  <Wolf01> I don't remember the exact line, and mine was the last run :P
17:05:16  <Samu> qsort.cpp is a microsoft file, the game uses microsoft code to sort arrays?
17:05:25  <Samu> :(
17:05:29  <Samu> what am i supposed to do
17:06:43  <Alberth> huh?
17:07:16  <Samu> i was following the sort code, and i ended up in qsort.cpp
17:08:27  <Alberth> qsort(): POSIX.1-2001, POSIX.1-2008, C89, C99, SVr4, 4.3BSD.  <-- my man-page it existed in the C language in 1989 already
17:08:38  <Alberth> +says
17:08:56  <Samu>  // // qsort.cpp // //      Copyright (c) Microsoft Corporation. All rights reserved. // // Defines qsort(), a routine for sorting arrays.
17:09:04  <Alberth> ie, it's a standard library function afaik
17:10:19  <Samu>  /* $Id: sort_func.hpp 24900 2013-01-08 22:46:42Z planetmaker $ */
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17:11:24  <Wolf01> Samu, what's the problem? If it's there just use it
17:11:52  <Samu> im trying to sort a list, i just don't know how
17:12:05  <Alberth> Samu: I only see a call to qsort, no #include of "qsort.cpp" or so
17:12:06  <Wolf01> Look at other usages of "sort"
17:12:12  <Samu> i list the stations in a StationList
17:12:19  <Wolf01> BBL
17:12:23  <Alberth> bye W
17:12:26  <Samu> they're not sorted
17:12:42  <Samu> how do i sort them by a criteria, highest ranking first
17:14:13  <Alberth> ?
17:14:26  <Alberth> first hit of "qsort example"
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17:16:07  <Samu> I got Station. it's a struct?
17:16:22  <Alberth> quite likely
17:16:31  <Alberth> but you can find that if you want
17:17:23  <Alberth> but qsort works in the same way no matter what type of data you have
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18:02:21  <andythenorth> o/
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18:13:41  <V453000> Eddi|zuHause: how exactly did that CETS thing work? The many rotations ... each vehicle has to be articulated into 3 parts and the middle part is looking at the relation of the other vehicles?
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18:18:47  <V453000> ah he first part is assigned the actual vehicle graphics, and the curvature between the first/second and second/third part is queried to show intermediate sprites when going around a curve
18:18:49  <V453000> hm
18:18:55  <V453000> is it a problem to have it on the middle part?
18:19:00  <V453000> that makes most sense, no?
18:21:00  <andythenorth> is all bonkers
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18:22:07  <andythenorth> V453000: are you asking for yourself, or for a friend? o_O
18:22:37  <V453000> for myself
18:22:44  <V453000> I'm seriously considering to use it
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18:23:59  <V453000> I'm saving many sprites on the layering so I can afford to use something like that
18:24:05  <V453000> and I'm curious to try something new
18:28:17  <andythenorth> I tried the 10/8 thing in Horse 1 for similar reason
18:28:21  <andythenorth> but no regrets about deleting it
18:28:48  <V453000> you tried that 24 rotation thing?
18:28:51  <andythenorth> nah
18:29:00  <andythenorth> just 10/8 length using 3 part vehicles
18:29:05  <V453000> right
18:29:21  <andythenorth> and also articulated 10/8 3-part vehicles
18:29:24  <V453000> that's fine I will be using just 8/8 parts anyway
18:29:31  * andythenorth learnt some stuff
18:29:33  <andythenorth> was useful
18:29:33  <V453000> just wondering if I have to use 3-articulated vehicles for this hack
18:31:57  <andythenorth> you can do most of turning sprites without 3-part
18:32:03  <andythenorth> front and rear vehicles might have issues
18:37:09  <V453000> hm
18:37:30  <V453000> can I influence tilt flag by some callback?
18:37:44  <V453000> like if vehicles XYZ in consist, then use tilt?
18:39:11  <andythenorth> tilt is flag only afaik
18:39:18  <andythenorth> added it to Horse 2 this morning
18:39:46  <andythenorth> yeah no cb36 for it
18:44:50  <V453000> right
18:45:02  <V453000> need to make some vehicles have tilt and some not then
18:45:07  <V453000> so if you get a combination, you get the bonus
18:46:09  <andythenorth> so you have to combine only tilt vehicles?
18:46:22  <andythenorth> India landscape:
18:46:27  <V453000> yes
18:46:55  <andythenorth> seems fair
18:47:02  <V453000> 0/10 not gray
18:47:23  <V453000> idk, thing is that if I use 3-unit articulation for 8/8, it means I will do 2/8 + 3/8 + 2/8
18:47:35  <V453000> which are super short units, meaning they will have high speed in curves already
18:48:10  <V453000> and if I have multiple compatible track types, I can make some vehicles belong to a fast track type with moar speed allowance
18:48:18  <V453000> so tilt on drugs
18:48:34  <V453000> 260kmh on shortest curves is kind of retard mode though
18:48:43  <V453000> will test
18:53:14  <V453000> I was considering making 16/8 wagons
18:53:27  <V453000> but I also want 24/8 engines
18:53:31  <V453000> which doesn't do full tiles
18:54:35  <V453000> 8/8 will have to be fine
18:55:05  <andythenorth> I got about 260kmh, but not on shortest curves
18:55:37  <V453000> is giant shit with short wagons
18:55:38  <V453000> realism
18:55:48  <V453000> lawyered,  I used a real photo for excuses
18:56:08  <andythenorth> game over
18:56:14  <andythenorth> you can never go back now
18:56:21  <andythenorth> 4/8 wagons are boss
18:56:23  <andythenorth> so are 6/8
18:57:03  <andythenorth> you could just drop the integer tiles obsession
18:57:06  <andythenorth> like, who cares?
18:57:38  <V453000> not convinced :)
18:58:27  <andythenorth> you should see my savegame :P
18:59:14  <Borg> fuuu :D I didnt played OpenTTD from years..
18:59:16  <V453000> not sure if I should
18:59:19  <Borg> PBS is awesome
18:59:45  <Borg> actualy, with PBS.. u actually barely need anything other, right?
18:59:56  <andythenorth> V453000:
19:00:32  <andythenorth> total integer madness
19:00:54  <V453000> I'm firmly convinced that visually all the 4/8 and 6/8 looks absolutely amazing and not using it is a lack of variety in the set
19:01:07  <V453000> but I'm still going to be a little piece of shit and use 8/8
19:02:29  <V453000> 24/8 might fit a big boy 4-8-8-4
19:02:33  <V453000> from seeing screenshots
19:02:38  <V453000> I mean photos
19:02:38  <V453000> :D
19:02:56  <V453000> oh yean not with tender
19:03:01  <V453000> that would be like 32/8
19:03:11  <V453000> 24/8 for slightly chibi version
19:03:55  <andythenorth> just go 48/8
19:03:59  <andythenorth> problem solved
19:04:02  <andythenorth> super awesome
19:04:51  <V453000> yeah 3 tiles
19:04:52  <V453000> perfect
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19:10:16  <frosch123> V453000: eddi draws the sprite with the first or last sprite depending on vehicle orientation
19:10:27  <frosch123> that is to minimise clipping with foundations, tunnels, bridges, ...
19:10:55  <V453000> ahhh that explains why the template looks like it does
19:11:01  <V453000> that's pretty smart
19:11:29  <V453000> I guess in terms of the turning logic it doesn't really matter which I choose to do
19:11:35  <frosch123> if you put the sprties on the middle part, it will clip with foundations on southern tile
19:11:47  <V453000> but isn't the middle best because it reacts most properly to curves (is center) ?
19:11:57  <V453000> even if it's 8/8?
19:12:20  <V453000> I guess it would eh if the articulated part is 2/8 or 3/8
19:12:38  <V453000> well ok I can try putting them on the ends, sounds like a good idea
19:12:51  <frosch123> possibly eddi does not just check the curvature, but also the positional differences
19:13:05  <V453000> :0
19:13:31  <frosch123> and then adjusts the sprite alignment so that it looks like the sprite is in the middle of the middle part
19:13:40  <V453000> I found this in the logs
19:13:42  <frosch123> while actually drawn by the southern part
19:13:46  <V453000> yes
19:14:02  <V453000> well ok
19:14:08  <V453000> I will attempt to get a template to work
19:14:23  <V453000> since all vehicles will be the same lengths and same articulated units, I guess it's "just" doing it once
19:21:42  <andythenorth> so In A Hot Country is currently best FIRS Economy
19:21:50  <andythenorth> in case anyone was wondering
19:21:52  <andythenorth> public service
19:22:13  <V453000> XD
19:22:16  <V453000> "ok"
19:25:51  <frosch123> V453000: actually, could you write a testgrf that does only draw the graphics with the middle part?
19:26:12  <V453000> I will definitely be making a barebones prototype as the first thing now
19:26:15  <frosch123> i wonder whether the clipping and alignment with the other parts couldn't just be done inside ottd
19:26:45  <V453000> collecting info for now, starting soon
19:27:11  <Eddi|zuHause>  <V453000> is it a problem to have it on the middle part? <-- IIRC i have the sprite on the middle part on the map, and the first part in the depot (there was a thing about dragging that required this, may be fixed now)
19:28:18  <Eddi|zuHause> MB did some experiments with reducing clipping for the DBSet
19:28:27  <Eddi|zuHause> but i don't really remember the outcome
19:28:35  <Eddi|zuHause> and of course he didn't share his code with me :p
19:30:20  <V453000> oh
19:30:21  <V453000> interesting
19:30:34  <V453000> well I will do experiments
19:30:50  <V453000> is why I don't really want to super copy your code because I want to come to the conclusion and understand wtf
19:32:19  <Eddi|zuHause> the code is actually not complicated
19:32:40  <Eddi|zuHause> the offsets for the template are a giant pile of WTF, though
19:33:25  <V453000> right
19:33:32  <V453000> that's pretty much what I thought
19:35:50  <Eddi|zuHause> also, i think the template could use slightly better angles, to make it look less jumpy in curves
19:36:16  <V453000> I think with antialiased 3D renders it will look a bit smoother
19:36:35  <V453000> also is it possible to do 5 articulated parts and 4 extra intermediate rotations?
19:36:57  <V453000> I'm probably not going to do that, just wondering
19:37:18  <frosch123> we can likely do 64 rotations
19:37:53  <frosch123> the orientation is essentially the positional difference between first and last part
19:38:12  <frosch123> the longer the distance, the more orientations,
19:38:19  <V453000> I think 32 is the reasonable maximum
19:38:23  <frosch123> though turns > 90° make it complicated
19:38:26  <V453000> but that's just from pure guessing
19:38:45  <V453000> oh yeah I wanted to test with 90deg turns on :D
19:38:50  <frosch123> i would think you need more orientations the longer the vehicel gets
19:39:00  <V453000> pretty much
19:39:06  <V453000> I will certainly only have 8/8
19:39:08  <frosch123> you only want the vehicle ends to jump that many pixels
19:39:40  <Eddi|zuHause> my code basically ignores 90° turns
19:40:02  <V453000> is reasonable
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19:40:20  <Eddi|zuHause> if it's not one of the 4 cases i test, it falls back to the default orientation
19:41:15  <Eddi|zuHause> you'd get too many edge cases to consider
19:41:30  <V453000> yes
19:46:51  <andythenorth> 90' turns are mandatory
19:48:13  <Wolf01> Pffft, just revert to 8 rotations if 90° turns are enabled, just to teach a lesson to the ones which want to keep that nasty thing on
19:48:20  <andythenorth> I played wrong for like 8 years, with 90' turned off
19:48:36  <andythenorth> next I should turn breakdowns back on
19:48:42  <V453000> XD
19:48:44  <Wolf01> :D
19:48:52  <V453000> not a bad idea Wolf01
19:49:00  <andythenorth> I only turned breakdowns off even because RVs can't find depots
19:49:16  <Wolf01> You don't build enough depots
19:49:32  <Wolf01> I always played with breakdowns (reduced)
19:49:39  <Eddi|zuHause> Wolf01: but that just results in a huge set of people never even knowing there are more angles
19:50:27  <frosch123> V453000: <- that's what i could offer
19:50:41  <Wolf01> Good, and when they figure out from screens from me, V or mop that there are more angles, then they'll file bug reports which andy will close
19:50:50  <andythenorth> frosch123: more slugs...
19:50:52  <andythenorth> bendy slugs
19:51:13  <frosch123> andythenorth: how do you/other usually use vehicle ids in articulated vehicles?
19:51:28  <andythenorth> others, no idea
19:51:34  <frosch123> do some/multiple parts use the same id?
19:51:35  <andythenorth> I have base IDs going up in 10s
19:51:37  <V453000> basically what I did with DOOM, right?
19:51:46  <V453000> I had 1/8 or 2/8 parts
19:51:46  <andythenorth> then articulated parts are base+1, base+2 etc
19:51:53  <V453000> and sliced sprites to fit them
19:51:56  <V453000> but you would add bending
19:51:58  <andythenorth> I use lots of IDs
19:52:06  <frosch123> ok, so each articulated part has their own id
19:52:16  <andythenorth> I'd have to check my code
19:52:57  <andythenorth> ok, 100% identical units reuse the ID
19:52:59  <frosch123> V453000: the sprites would be positioned so that they look like the original sprite
19:53:00  <andythenorth> anything else, new ID
19:53:05  <frosch123> there is no shfiting between the slices
19:53:29  <frosch123> andythenorth: what is a 100% identical unit?
19:54:08  <frosch123> do you build short wagons in chunks like old nuts?
19:54:21  <V453000> right, well shifting between normal non-bending units is easy
19:54:29  <Eddi|zuHause> iirc, in CETS i have the articulated parts as base, base+0x2000 and base+0x4000
19:54:29  <supermop> sounds like a philosophical question
19:54:31  <V453000> just +4 -2 etc
19:54:39  <andythenorth> frosch123: better way to explain it
19:54:52  <andythenorth> every vehicle gets a unique ID
19:54:53  <LordAro> frosch123: so pango. which minimum version are you thinking of targetting?
19:55:01  <andythenorth> but some vehicles appear more than once in an articulated conisst
19:55:05  <andythenorth> consist *
19:55:37  <Eddi|zuHause> you can also put all articulated parts as one ID, and calculate position in chain mod 3
19:56:29  <Eddi|zuHause> but in this case, most of the properties must be dynamic
19:56:46  <frosch123> LordAro: are there differences? <- we mostly need that, and then tie it to our custom renderer
19:57:14  <Eddi|zuHause> whereas with three distinct IDs you can have one part have the capacity, and the other parts 0, etc.
19:57:26  <frosch123> not sure whether to do the ellipsis stuff with pango or inside ottd
19:58:07  <LordAro> frosch123: ok, well oldoldstable has 1.30, and there have been no changes to pango_layout_* since then, so it's probably good
20:01:01  <frosch123> LordAro: <- i started by splitting the current layouter into multiple files (wip, does not compile)
20:02:06  <frosch123> but the #ifdef object inheritance does not make it easy
20:03:10  <LordAro> ah, cool
20:03:12  <LordAro> i'll have a look
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20:04:28  <V453000> so would the latter thing you wrote frosch support the bending?
20:05:34  <frosch123> it's about drawing a single big sprite
20:05:43  <frosch123> it does not define how the sprite is choosen
20:06:15  <frosch123> so, would bendnig mean that you provide multiple bended sprites and can somehow decide how to concatenate them?
20:07:14  <frosch123> like ottd says, here are three parts _/¯ and the grf selects a single ∫ sprite?
20:08:09  <V453000> imagine I provide, say, 24 rotations
20:08:19  <V453000> would it cut the sprite and do the bending?
20:08:42  <frosch123> hmm, i guess i don't understand what you mean with "bending"
20:08:55  <V453000> the thing CETS Does
20:09:20  <frosch123> yes, that's what my paste is about
20:09:52  <V453000> that would be very interesting
20:10:03  <V453000> would it work in combination with the layering?
20:10:13  <frosch123> draw a single vehicle sprite with N rotations instead of separate sprites for M arituclated parts
20:10:33  <frosch123> V453000: all layers would have to use the same rotations
20:10:53  <frosch123> which probably makes sense :p
20:11:00  <V453000> yes :)
20:11:19  <frosch123> visual effects may be an open issue
20:11:23  <frosch123> where to spawn them
20:11:31  <V453000> :D oh
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20:19:50  <andythenorth> is bed?
20:22:14  <V453000> well if you slice the sprite
20:22:25  <V453000> then when it's bending you wouldn't see the walls between "parts"
20:22:30  <V453000> so you would see holes in the train
20:22:52  <V453000> defining sprites for every articulated part individually would still be better
20:23:01  <V453000> honestly the graphical slicing is the least issue
20:23:15  <V453000> figuring out the shifts and stuff as Eddi said is going to be insane
20:23:22  <V453000> so if it just does that drawing logic by itself, it's golden
20:23:24  <frosch123> the thing i posted is for wagons, not for slugs
20:23:39  <V453000> what's the difference between wagons and slugs? :D
20:24:15  <frosch123> wagons do not bend within
20:24:32  <frosch123> a wagon is straight from start of wagon to end of wagon
20:24:39  <frosch123> a slug bends in every place
20:25:15  <V453000> I see
20:25:28  <V453000> so you give 8/8 sprite
20:25:40  <V453000> and it slices it, but it always draws it as the full 8/8 sprite
20:25:50  <V453000> with less glitching because it knows the positions more precisely
20:26:45  <andythenorth> is bed :)
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20:30:33  <frosch123> V453000:
20:30:59  <frosch123> upper picture is the current default: ottd draws three sprited (red) for three articulated part
20:31:36  <frosch123> bottom picture would be the new thing: ottd tells endpoints of wagon, and grf provides single sprite (red) mathcing the distance
20:32:23  <frosch123> thought argueable the blue points may need some adjusting
20:32:33  <V453000> interesting
20:32:55  <V453000> so it would look totally off the tracks sometimes? :D
20:33:20  <frosch123> well, grf defines where front and back axes are
20:33:31  <frosch123> they stay on track, middle part is inbetween
20:34:04  <frosch123> but this is no slug 1/8 behaviour
20:34:06  <V453000> right
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20:34:21  <frosch123> unless you make the red sprite look bendy in itself somehow
20:34:40  <frosch123> but that would also only follow some approximation of the track
20:36:04  <V453000> sounds very interesting
20:41:54  <Wolf01> Yep, so you really need to define the real boogies positions
20:42:35  <Wolf01> It would be cool to see how it looks a DDA40x
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20:44:40  <frosch123> is that one particulary long?
20:45:04  <Wolf01> 30m rigid body
20:45:17  <Wolf01>
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20:52:56  <supermop> '2nd most powerful locomotive ever' seems like it can't be true
20:53:50  <supermop> maybe 2nd most powerful single unit diesel, but it seems like it would be trivially easy for an AC locomotive to be more powerfull
20:54:13  <Wolf01> The most powerful one seem a multiple unit gas turbine
20:55:01  <Wolf01> "The DDA40X is the most powerful single-unit diesel-electric locomotive ever built"
21:01:15  <supermop> that i believe but the page called it '2nd most powerful locomotive' presumably of any type
21:01:37  <supermop> the gas turbine was 8500 hp,
21:02:00  <supermop> i find it hard to believe there is no electric more powerful than that
21:02:51  <frosch123> tgv as emu has more than 16k hp :p
21:03:06  <frosch123> does that count?
21:04:58  <frosch123> wiki lists a shinkansen with about 25k hp
21:05:17  <frosch123> (18.2MW)
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21:07:50  <Eddi|zuHause> it'll be hard to find a (decently sized) electric engine with less than 8k hp
21:08:26  <Eddi|zuHause> where "decent size" is 4 axles, 84t
21:09:05  <frosch123> i think you are 30% off
21:09:28  <supermop>
21:09:35  <supermop> this thing is over 12k
21:09:43  <frosch123> regular single-unit engines are listed at about 4MW, which is about 6k hp
21:10:44  <Eddi|zuHause> well, maybe... it's been like 3 years since i looked at engine stats :p
21:10:47  <supermop> frosch123: i believe that most electrics are weaker than the DDA40X or the GTEL turbines, but find it absurd to state that all electrics are weaker
21:10:53  <LordAro> frosch123: of course, my icu is too new to even compile the split layouters :)
21:11:48  <frosch123> LordAro: what distro do you use? i was surprised that even debian unstable has an old enough icu
21:12:28  <LordAro> arch :)
21:12:42  <frosch123> LordAro: also, it does not compile in general :p
21:12:51  <supermop> - this thing is 7200hp for a single unit, so even if there was nothing else, that makes the dda40x 3rd most powerful at best
21:13:08  <LordAro> frosch123: yeah, but not because of missing includes :p
21:13:11  <LordAro> i have 59.1
21:13:17  <frosch123> i just commited a whatever state to make room for the randombits thingie
21:13:24  * LordAro amends buildsystem
21:38:22  <Samu> I can't use QSortT or GSortT, i fail.. there's always something missing, grrr
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22:07:43  <LordAro> frosch123: i pushed a couple of things
22:07:50  <LordAro> ...and now it's getting built
22:07:51  <LordAro> lol.
22:10:31  <Samu> i don't know how to sort :(
22:10:41  <LordAro> Samu: what is missing?
22:11:43  <LordAro> (for OTTD, you should nearly always use QSortT, although the invokations are identical regardless)
22:12:04  <Samu> StationList used_stations;
22:12:16  <Samu> so i got this list of stations
22:12:23  <Samu> it got let's say, 6 items
22:12:58  <Samu> now i wanna sort these 6 items by rating
22:13:06  <Samu> but there's also CargoID messing things up
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22:13:31  <LordAro> messing things up how?
22:13:46  <Samu> trying QsortT
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22:13:53  <LordAro> specifics, please
22:14:36  <Samu> GSortT(used_stations.Begin(), used_stations.Length(), &StationRatingSorter);
22:14:43  <Samu> this doesn't work
22:15:08  <Samu> StationRatingSorter needs to know the cargo id, and i dunno how to pass that
22:15:08  <LordAro> the error messages, please
22:15:22  <LordAro> right
22:16:37  <LordAro> what is StationRatingSorter ?
22:16:44  <LordAro> its signature, at least
22:17:35  <Samu> no idea
22:17:40  <Samu> i tried static int CDECL StationRatingSorter(const Station * const *a, const Station * const *b)
22:17:57  <Samu> but CargoID isn't there :(
22:18:28  <LordAro> well that seems reasonable
22:18:32  <LordAro> where are you getting CargoID from?
22:19:16  <Samu> from here: uint MoveGoodsToStation(CargoID type, uint amount, SourceType source_type, SourceID source_id, const StationList *all_stations)
22:19:26  <Samu> CargoID type
22:19:55  <LordAro> ok, why do you need CargoID to sort a list of functions?
22:20:08  <LordAro> s/functions/stations/
22:20:36  <Samu> st1->goods[type].rating - st2->goods[type].rating
22:20:46  <Samu> that type is the CargoID
22:21:13  <ST2> damn, that moment a line of code highlights my nickname <3
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22:21:29  <LordAro> ST2: o/
22:21:32  <ST2> o/
22:22:12  <Samu> i dunno why i'm sorting, i really don't know what i need to do, i thought I had to sort the list by rating
22:22:33  <LordAro> working out what you want to be doing is probably a good start
22:22:40  <LordAro> flailing madly never works out too well
22:23:00  <LordAro> but i'm still not seeing your issue
22:23:00  <Samu> well, i got a list of stations
22:23:16  <LordAro> which function call requires a CargoID, that doesn't already have it?
22:23:46  <Samu> i think i better copy paste my code?
22:24:09  <LordAro> maybe
22:24:28  <Samu>
22:25:00  <Samu> i was like... why use st1, etc... st6, why not make the code find out how many stations are there
22:25:23  <LordAro> arrays do seem like the better choice here
22:26:00  <LordAro> i'm not seeing any QSortT in that
22:26:13  <Samu> it's not there
22:26:49  <LordAro> did you not want it?
22:28:02  <Samu>
22:28:12  <Samu> there, doesn't even compile
22:29:29  <LordAro> what is the error message?
22:29:43  <Samu> i tried return stb->goods[0].rating - sta->goods[0].rating;
22:29:57  <Samu> 0 instead of type, just trying to see if i could get it to compile, it doesn't
22:30:09  <LordAro> ERROR MESSAGE.
22:30:20  <Samu> Severity	Code	Description	Project	File	Line	Suppression State Error (active)		no instance of function template "GSortT" matches the argument list	openttd	d:\OpenTTD\trunk\src\station_cmd.cpp	3914
22:30:43  <Samu> line 3914 is GSortT(used_stations.Begin(), used_stations.Length(), &StationRatingSorter);
22:31:20  <LordAro> oh, right
22:31:28  <LordAro> G/QSortT is a templated function
22:31:37  <LordAro> you have to specify the type the sort function is operating on
22:32:45  <Samu> uh, what?
22:33:14  <LordAro> look at some existing examples of G/QSortT usage
22:42:25  <Samu> i don't know what to do
22:42:46  <Gustavo6046> I have an area A pertaining to a grid G, and I need to predict a shape in order to break this area into convex parts. How do I do this? And how will I make these convex afterwards? It's necessary for an efficient pathfinder, you see.
22:48:39  <Samu> Severity	Code	Description	Project	File	Line	Suppression State Error	C2672	'QSortT': no matching overloaded function found	openttd	D:\OpenTTD\trunk\src\station_cmd.cpp	3914
22:49:06  <Samu> Severity	Code	Description	Project	File	Line	Suppression State Error	C2782	'void QSortT(T *,uint,int (__cdecl *)(const T *,const T *),bool)': template parameter 'T' is ambiguous	openttd	D:\OpenTTD\trunk\src\station_cmd.cpp	3914
22:49:20  <LordAro> Samu: you need to provide the template parameter
22:49:33  <Samu> what is that ?
22:50:35  <LordAro> look at other usages
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22:50:59  <LordAro> or for a more generic answer, google what template parameters are
22:55:35  <Wolf01> 'night
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23:11:14  <Samu> Severity	Code	Description	Project	File	Line	Suppression State Error	C2664	'void QSortT<Station>(T *,uint,int (__cdecl *)(const T *,const T *),bool)': cannot convert argument 1 from 'Station **' to 'Station *'	openttd	D:\OpenTTD\trunk\src\station_cmd.cpp	3914
23:11:36  <Samu> QSortT<Station>(used_stations.Begin(), no_stations, &StationRatingSorter);
23:11:44  <Samu> it still doesn't like it
23:14:30  <Samu> ah, got something, but still...
23:17:25  <Samu> holy crap it compiled... wtf
23:26:53  <Samu> LordAro: what now
23:27:11  <Samu> how do I pass the CargoID?
23:27:42  <Samu> if (no_stations > 1) GSortT<Station>(*used_stations.Begin(), no_stations, StationRatingSorter);
23:30:32  <LordAro> i'm not actually sure you can, in the current format
23:31:41  <LordAro> regardless, maybe try the existing StationRatingMax/MinSorter in station_gui.cpp
23:32:32  <Samu> i looked at that one, it's not the same rating
23:32:37  <Samu> it's another kind of sorting
23:33:28  <LordAro> well maybe, but it might help give you some more ideas
23:33:47  <Samu> that one picks all CargoIDs
23:34:10  <Samu> doesn't need to be specified any CargoID, I actually have to specify the CargoID
23:34:59  <Samu> example, Coal
23:35:13  <Samu> a coal mine produces cargo and wants to put it in the near stations
23:35:56  <Samu> it needs to look at each station and look at the rating for the Coal cargo only
23:36:06  <Samu> not all types of cargo
23:46:03  <Samu> i give up, it's not working
23:46:21  <Samu> crashes on Swap
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