Log for #openttd on 26th October 2017:
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07:17:17  <V453000>
07:43:54  <andythenorth> V453000: how about draw VTrains to match Horse 2?
07:44:02  <andythenorth> then we can hide easter eggs in the sets
07:44:14  <andythenorth> total WTF madness
07:44:45  <V453000> what
07:47:45  <V453000> I won't even be pushing pixels :P
07:48:47  <andythenorth> just teach the 8bpp python script to look like horse
07:48:49  <andythenorth> simples
07:49:02  <andythenorth> then we could make a hidden third set
07:49:16  <andythenorth> vehicles you can only get by combining Horse and VTrains in certain ways
07:49:20  <andythenorth> total metagame
07:51:15  <V453000> :DDDDDDDDDDDDD
07:51:29  <V453000> interesting
07:51:50  <V453000> yesterday I got an idea where if I combine vehicles in new set in a very specific way, vehicle becomes slug
07:51:58  <V453000> there could be such a cheat code for andyvehicle
07:53:58  <V453000> cause I don't feel like adding slug as a vehicle on it's own in 2 sets
07:54:07  <andythenorth> easter slug
08:00:50  <V453000> also I realized I have some serious WTF in terms of vehicle scaling and shit
08:00:52  <V453000> need figuring out
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08:25:11  <andythenorth> make stuff
08:25:13  <andythenorth> delete
08:25:14  <andythenorth> repeat
08:25:32  <andythenorth> or you could do it Properly
08:25:39  <andythenorth> and make a comprehensive Plan
08:25:49  <andythenorth> with has all Problems Worked Out in Advance
08:26:02  <andythenorth> then you Can Never Be Wrong
08:30:12  <V453000> I don't think I can do that
08:30:17  <V453000> there's so much shit combined
08:30:18  <V453000> thing is
08:30:25  <V453000> I have a model which is 24/8
08:30:28  <V453000> but the model is scaling
08:30:35  <V453000> then I need to scale from each center of each unit
08:30:39  <V453000> and render accordingly
08:30:44  <V453000> shitballs m8
08:32:02  <andythenorth> total wtf
08:32:11  <andythenorth> you will break the internet
08:33:04  <V453000> in theory if I scale from the correct pivot points, it should work fine
08:34:31  <andythenorth> think Horse 2 is done
08:34:40  <andythenorth> people only look at – angle, right?
08:34:45  <V453000> :D
08:34:52  <V453000> yeah sure
08:34:55  <V453000> ..
08:35:07  <andythenorth> all done then
08:35:32  <V453000> that's a lot of things
08:35:57  <V453000> next up engines :)
08:36:04  <V453000> the wagons are higher standard now
08:37:28  <andythenorth> engines need work
08:37:31  <andythenorth> not done then
08:37:34  <andythenorth> can't ship
08:37:38  <andythenorth> :|
08:38:04  <andythenorth> ok work
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08:38:07  <V453000> :D
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10:25:54  <Samu> @calc (10+1+10)*(10+1+10)
10:25:54  <DorpsGek> Samu: 441
10:29:17  <Samu> @calc (10+1+10)*(10+1+10)-1
10:29:17  <DorpsGek> Samu: 440
10:29:28  <Samu> that's a lot of stations
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10:49:38  <Wolf01> o/
10:50:54  <crem1> \o
11:09:53  <Wolf01> lol
11:15:48  <__ln__> Wolf01: here's the same thing explained by a more trustworthy authority:
11:22:15  <Wolf01> :D
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11:36:16  <Samu> I still don't know how to sort
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11:37:14  <Samu> how do i create variable names? construct a name of a variable?
11:37:46  <andythenorth> this is, like, the most depressing most in months
11:38:08  <andythenorth> adding a feature that needs changes in a feature, that needs changes in a feature
11:38:42  <Samu> uint no_stations = used_stations.Length();
11:39:13  <Samu> Station station"no_station"
11:39:20  <Samu> :(
11:39:23  <Samu> i fail
11:40:21  <Samu> while no_stations != 0, no_stations -=1; Station station"no_station"
11:41:52  <V453000> andythenorth: your generated docs of newgrfs are just fucking amazing.
11:42:04  <V453000> it's nothing new but it's worth mentioning
11:47:27  <Samu> how do i name a certain number of variables?
11:47:38  <Samu> is this sounding like a stupid question?
11:48:57  <Samu> if i have 10 stations, i want to create 10 variables, all with different names
11:49:12  <Samu> if i have 5, i want 5 variables
11:49:15  <Samu> halp
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11:50:28  <Samu> I think i'm gonna give up, this is becoming an impossible task for my skills
11:59:10  <Wolf01> Samu, that's what lists are for
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12:24:35  <crem1> What do you use for backup, on a file level? (ideally the same thing to backup from linux, windows and mac)
12:24:46  <crem1> hm, why am I 1..
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12:26:24  <andythenorth> backup what? o_O
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12:28:44  <crem> files.
12:29:27  <andythenorth> dropbox?
12:29:29  <crem> Like... Photos, sources, audio recodrings, etc.
12:29:54  <crem> Hm.. Something that I'd set up once and forget would be nice.
12:30:51  <andythenorth> if you manage that, you can sell it and make $$$ :)
12:32:30  <crem> Crashplan was like that, but they don't support private customers starting from 2018, and also their client was huge java monster that constantly ate 2G of RAM.
12:35:24  <Samu> i have no idea what references are, what pointers are, what items are :(
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12:36:50  <Samu> when i use Swap, I get a crash, cannot access memory
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12:52:14  <Wolf01> mmmh, manually changing lines is a PITA
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13:03:56  <Samu> i can't do this, i feel bad
13:04:14  <Wolf01> 16 minutes of train passing in stations XD
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13:06:12  <Samu> can't use lists
13:06:49  <Samu> so i Include(s) to the StationList
13:06:57  <Samu> but then i have no idea what to do
13:07:01  <Samu> can't manage
13:07:09  <Samu> don't know how to move, swap items
13:07:46  <Samu> or swap references
13:07:51  <Samu> or swap consts, i have no idea
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13:23:15  <Samu> Wolf01: do you know how to use lists, cus i dont
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13:32:09  <supermop> yo
13:35:01  <crem> yo indeed.
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14:04:00  <Wolf01> ISP my fuck
14:05:19  <V453000> IFP my shit
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14:10:38  <Samu> what's a vector, what's an array
14:11:12  <Samu> who would like to help a poor programmer? i've been on this for 2 days
14:11:26  <Samu> erm, not-even-a-programmer* typo
14:11:44  <Wolf01> Try with something easier
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14:16:26  <Samu> ok
14:16:44  <Samu> the easy way out is to manually do it
14:16:57  <Samu> st1, etc... st440
14:17:17  <supermop> ugh
14:17:48  <supermop> so construction on this restaurant is like 1 third of the way through, and just today the contractor is like asking what a neon sign is
14:17:59  <supermop> and where to get it
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14:18:57  <supermop> this is the type of thing you should figure out before you bid for a job, let alone accept it and start work on it
14:19:00  <Samu> there can be (10+1+10)^2 - 1 tiles, if each tile is a station, this is how many stations can take that cargo
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14:21:17  <crem> guess a wikihow article by image. :) Pretty fun.
14:21:44  <Samu> no thx
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14:22:55  <Alberth> o/
14:23:02  <crem> \o
14:36:50  <Samu> meanwhile, in russia
14:49:08  <Wolf01> o/
14:50:28  <Samu> o|
14:57:35  <Samu> help me simplify this, to avoid repetition.
14:57:41  <Samu> i insist
14:59:49  <Alberth> use arrays
15:00:34  <Alberth> or more modern, std::vector
15:01:37  <crem> std::vector is so 90s..
15:01:59  <Alberth> :p
15:03:53  <Samu> there's small vector?
15:04:55  <Samu> I think i tried
15:04:59  <Alberth> if you like that, sure
15:05:33  <Samu> i used StationList, it's a SmallVector isn't it?
15:05:48  <Samu> typedef SmallVector<Station *, 2> StationList;
15:05:57  <Alberth> in general, when you end up in variables v1, v2, ... with number suffixes that do the same thing, you really want v[i]
15:09:50  <Samu> ok, how do i start with v[i]
15:10:12  <Samu> first, i count how many stations I gathered
15:11:41  <Alberth> isn't it just struct StationRating { Station *st; uint rating; };  StationRating ratings[6]; ?
15:12:53  <Samu> there can be more than 6
15:12:59  <Alberth> ok
15:13:02  <Samu> theoretical maximum is 440
15:13:17  <Alberth> std::vector<StationRating> ratings;
15:13:41  <Alberth> ratings.clear();
15:13:47  <Alberth> then add stations
15:16:26  <Samu> it can range from 0 to 440
15:16:44  <Samu> well, it only matters once there's at least 2
15:16:47  <Samu> so 2 to 440
15:16:53  <Alberth> yeah
15:17:42  <Samu> identifier StationRating is undefined
15:17:55  <Alberth> look 6 minutes up
15:19:11  <Samu> struct StationRating { Station *st; uint rating; }; StationRating ratings; ?
15:19:40  <Alberth> just the struct definition
15:30:20  <Samu> how do i add :(
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15:38:19  <Alberth> you don't actually believe you're the first person that adds an element to a std::vector, right?
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15:43:15  <Samu> 		StationRating ratings; 		ratings.rating = st->goods[type].rating; = st;
15:44:47  <Samu>
15:57:52  <Samu> I can't make it work
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15:59:13  <Wolf01> Samu, you are redeclaring a variable
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16:08:39  <Samu> fine, i give up
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16:47:29  <LordAro> Samu: there's something to be said about "diving head first" into something you don't understand, but you also need to be able to go back up several levels and work out how a programming language works, how to make things with it, and most importantly of all, how to read and fix error messages
16:47:36  <LordAro> relying on other people is just unfair
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17:30:18  <Samu> sorry about that
17:30:46  <Samu> figured it's more complex than I thought
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17:46:52  <andythenorth> blah
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17:51:42  <Alberth> bleh
17:55:53  <ATMunn> bloh
18:00:59  <frosch123> is 2500 sprites okay for a single vehicle without cargo types or loading?
18:01:40  <supermop> ha
18:14:05  <andythenorth> is any cats?
18:14:14  <andythenorth> no cats?
18:18:46  <Samu> how to nerf aircraft properly?
18:20:34  <andythenorth> newgrf
18:22:21  <frosch123> i have to look up nml syntax every time i use it :/
18:24:10  <Alberth> it's not very intuitive indeed
18:25:17  <andythenorth> I have to look up nml syntax every time I use it
18:25:39  <andythenorth> I even have a long convo saved with Alberth where we designed 50% of a new syntax
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18:36:32  <frosch123> hmm, i may have rendered too few sprites
18:37:54  <V453000> heyo :D
18:38:29  <frosch123> V453000: are 2625 sprites enough for a slug?
18:38:39  <V453000> why would it be that many?
18:38:54  <frosch123> continous bending without any gaps
18:38:59  <V453000> :D
18:39:09  <frosch123> at least i hope so
18:39:24  <V453000> do you need some test sprites from me? Would just be boxes
18:39:42  <V453000> I will just try to focus on making graphics stuff, and have the 3D scenes ready for more rotations
18:39:49  <V453000> I will even render 24 for now
18:40:10  <frosch123> i already rendered the sprites
18:40:19  <frosch123> currently wondering how to make nml switches for so many sprites
18:40:49  <V453000> right
18:40:54  <V453000> running out of switch IDs or whatnot?
18:41:08  <V453000> I guess not, NUTS wagons probably use more than 2500
18:41:21  <frosch123> nah, i feel like andy... should i use pnml, or go to pynml :p
18:41:59  <andythenorth> just rewrite nml :P
18:42:14  <frosch123> i have 50% of a spec for nml2
18:42:20  <frosch123> but likely not worth it
18:42:42  <andythenorth> people seem to do fine with current nml
18:43:54  <V453000> ok I go model a big boy then :)
18:46:09  <V453000> wow it fits 24/8 almost exactly :D
18:46:32  <andythenorth> winning
18:46:39  <andythenorth> is there beer here?
18:47:07  <V453000> not here
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19:17:28  <V453000> rocking 0 replies on brix or the 32bpp converter so far on tt-f
19:17:31  <V453000> good shit
19:18:38  <V453000> is there such low activity lately or simply nobody gives a fuck?
19:18:47  <V453000> or both
19:19:14  <V453000> I was even thinking if we reached a point in the Graphics Development section that everybody basically has their own thread and writes there
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19:23:26  <frosch123> i have not read forums in like 2 months
19:23:29  <frosch123> unless linked here
19:23:44  <Wolf01> <V453000> rocking 0 replies on brix or the 32bpp converter so far on tt-f <- do you want me to reply "first"
19:23:46  <Wolf01> ?
19:26:39  <andythenorth> V453000: what frosch said
19:26:53  <andythenorth> there is activity, but mostly from people creating their own stuff
19:27:06  <andythenorth> or total numpties, of which there are few right now
19:29:45  <V453000> yeah
19:29:53  <V453000> in short fuck forums \o/
19:30:26  <V453000> I kind of started using it as a diary lately, vomitting my progress basically just for myself
19:30:30  <V453000> might end up doing it just locally
19:30:38  <V453000> or even to a notepad pysically
19:31:15  <Gustavo6046> Madcat,
19:31:21  <Gustavo6046> I mean
19:31:23  <Gustavo6046>
19:31:24  <Gustavo6046> sorry
19:31:53  <Gustavo6046> I pasted it in another channel too (very, very far away...) to a friend of mine. I decided, "it's a MIDI, so why not in #openttd too?".
19:33:40  <V453000> I think I'm just spoilt with factorio, I post anything on factorio and people lose their shit ... I even like the fact that here people don't care so much which lets there be no real stress "RELEASE ASAP OR RIOT", maybe I'm just frustrated that coop is very quiet :) all is fine in the end
19:34:04  <V453000> and the main people I care about already told me their opinions, so :)
19:34:16  <V453000> can't really complain
19:34:39  <Gustavo6046> >Can't really complain
19:34:43  <Gustavo6046> >Posts a huge wall of text
19:35:42  <Gustavo6046> >it's all rantin
19:35:43  <Gustavo6046> g
19:36:04  <frosch123> Syntax error, unexpected token "[" <- if the line just had less than 10k chars
19:36:49  <V453000> ut wot m8
19:37:35  <Gustavo6046> >ut
19:38:03  <Gustavo6046> Just kidding bro
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19:39:15  <V453000> I know
19:39:47  <V453000> well the conclusion is that I'm modelling trains so can't get much better
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19:41:23  * andythenorth wonders how long before JGR gets bored of being sole maintainer
19:41:34  <andythenorth> * sole maintainer of people's hopes, dreams and wishes :)
19:42:27  <V453000> when andythenorth and V453000 are bored of forever catching the perfect newgrf
19:44:56  <frosch123> now i need RGBA EATER
19:45:44  <V453000> :D
19:46:04  <V453000> let me know if it was user friendly enough :D
19:46:19  <V453000> I think currently you need to use it in the specific folder setup it has in the zip
19:46:26  <V453000> unless you edit the py
19:46:57  <frosch123> uppercase stuff always sucks
19:48:30  <V453000> :D WHAT
19:51:42  <frosch123> it reminds me of the python wiki bot
19:52:05  <frosch123> it's also python, and it's also written by window people
19:52:28  <frosch123> 50% of the source is fighting with windows or so
19:52:48  <Alberth> lol
19:53:54  <frosch123> they always need to invent stuff like /tmp
19:54:00  <frosch123> or input/output directories
19:54:05  <V453000> :DDDDDDDDDDDDDDD
19:54:13  <V453000> fucking scum
19:54:19  <V453000> ban windows
19:55:58  <frosch123> V453000: do you have an example of how to run it
19:56:20  <frosch123> the readme floods me with 50+ options to tune stuff i don't understand, but there is no example
19:56:21  <V453000> like the command?
19:56:29  <V453000>
19:56:31  <frosch123> do i need to copy my input into the 32bpp folder?
19:56:48  <V453000> yes put input into 32bpp folder
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19:57:07  <V453000> -n TRACKS_OUTPUT_0000 -e ALL CC1 CC2
19:57:13  <V453000> basic command to run it
19:57:17  <V453000> -n for filename
19:57:31  <V453000> -e allowed colour types
19:57:40  <V453000> don't put CC1 and CC2 there if you don't want those :P
19:57:51  <V453000> I guess not using -n should just take all files in the directory
19:57:58  <V453000> but eh :P is why version 2 eventually
19:58:12  <V453000> a straight forward how to would be useful I see :) makes sense
19:58:54  <frosch123> it mentions the input/output directories nowhere, i only guessed that :)
20:01:04  <V453000> I guess :)
20:01:44  <frosch123> hmm, 1:30 for 5kx3k image, mostly transparent
20:01:58  <frosch123> but, worked :)
20:02:15  <V453000> 5k x 3k is big as fuck
20:02:33  <V453000> admittedly brix has bigger spritesheets but yeah
20:02:42  <frosch123> i have 25 sprite sheets of that size
20:02:47  <frosch123> for a single slug :p
20:02:48  <V453000> with some cuda python or shaders it would be faster yeah
20:02:50  <V453000> :D
20:02:51  <V453000> k
20:04:14  <frosch123> does it decide the resulting color based on the rgb value of a single pixel?
20:04:21  <frosch123> or does it combine multiple pixels?
20:04:29  <V453000> single of course
20:04:42  <frosch123> ok, i might write a faster version then :p
20:05:11  <Gustavo6046>
20:05:38  <V453000> I'm sure you would write a much faster version
20:05:51  <V453000> but wouldn't combining multiple pixels just mean worse results?
20:06:09  <frosch123> i only asked that to guess the complexity of the task
20:07:06  <frosch123> but if it is essentially a table lookup (r,g,b)->index for each pixel, it shouldn't take that long
20:07:42  <V453000> well I'm sure as hell that you can write it faster
20:07:56  <frosch123> i wondered about integrating it into nml directly
20:08:13  <frosch123> just that i have no idea whether every artist would have their own opinion about the RIGHT CONVERSION
20:08:41  <V453000> for comparison my first version would do such a thing in 50 minutes, Alberth's simplifications and what to me seemed just stylistic changes managed to drop to to about 15 minutes
20:08:55  <V453000> and this is again my code so I am sure you can make it a lot faster since you know what you are doing :P
20:09:14  <V453000> idk about RIGHT CONVERSION but you can always disallow indexes
20:09:34  <V453000> regarding different comparing mechanism, I think this algorithm is correct
20:09:45  <V453000> it's exactly what photoshop does seemingly, and it makes sense
20:10:02  <frosch123> how long does photoshop take?
20:10:08  <V453000> seconds :)
20:10:14  <V453000> if even that, not sure
20:10:18  <V453000> it's fast
20:10:26  <frosch123> ok, so my expectations are not that far off :p
20:10:31  <V453000> probably
20:10:43  <V453000> my aim wasn't to make it as optimized as possible, I can't do that with my knowledge :)
20:10:57  <V453000> I just needed something automatable and controllable
20:11:02  <V453000> the multithreading helps a lot already
20:11:08  <frosch123> well, you started with threading, and then wanted to throw CUDA at it :p
20:11:19  <V453000> sure, faster to some degree
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20:11:35  <V453000> I learned how to throw 16 threads at it, didn't learn how to optimize code to make it faster
20:13:03  <frosch123> as usual, opposite to andy :)
20:13:11  <V453000> :D
20:13:45  <andythenorth> well
20:14:16  <andythenorth> I threw multiprocessing pool and partial compiling at my slow compiles
20:14:41  <andythenorth> then I got bored of the headaches, and made the actual compile faster :P
20:15:00  * andythenorth trod a well-trodden path :P
20:15:32  <frosch123> you didn't buy a bigger machine though
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20:17:05  <V453000> :D
20:17:10  <V453000> :(
20:17:27  <frosch123> 10/25
20:18:03  <V453000> see, fast :P
20:18:25  <frosch123> faster than working to make it faster :)
20:18:32  <Wolf01> /me is trying BRIX now.. it's like playing on a moquette
20:18:52  <V453000> haha
20:19:11  <Wolf01> The tile noise is driving me mad :D
20:19:14  <V453000> interesting comparison Wolf01  :D can't say it's wrong
20:20:05  <milek7> hmm, for 5kx5k image gimp takes 60 seconds
20:20:07  <milek7> surprisingly slow
20:20:32  <milek7> (single threaded)
20:20:33  <Wolf01> My eyes try to cross like when you look at those stereogram pictures
20:23:27  <V453000> milek7: :0
20:23:41  <V453000> Wolf01: :D wow
20:23:48  <V453000> is just noise
20:24:34  <Wolf01> My brain interpretes it as random dot stereogram and it's not a pleasure to stare at it continuously :D
20:24:50  <Wolf01> I need to avoid to zoom in
20:24:54  <V453000> interesting
20:25:24  <V453000> the 8bpp graphics are also noisy though?
20:25:37  <Wolf01> I'm using the 8bpp ones
20:25:52  <Wolf01> You could generate slugs stereograms in tiles
20:26:06  <V453000> did you try 32bpp first? :D
20:26:12  <Wolf01> Mmmh, no
20:26:25  <V453000> the tiles are basically identical in 8bpp though
20:26:39  <V453000> :D k
20:29:44  <frosch123> V453000: any reason you went for YES/NO dropdowns, instead of the red/green buttons?
20:29:45  <Wolf01> try this, and then stare at BRIX
20:30:17  <Wolf01> (better results with sea)
20:32:17  <frosch123> i have no issue with the terrain
20:32:29  <frosch123> 2x looks a bit weird, but 1x and 4x are fine
20:36:35  <Samu> what did I just watch?
20:36:49  <Samu> was searching how to sort :(
20:37:12  <Wolf01> That's how sorting algorithms work
20:37:18  <frosch123> it's amazing how little glitches BRIX has at 4x zoom compared to zbase
20:40:26  <LordAro> frosch123: i'm not actually sure how to go further with the Layouter splitting
20:40:58  <frosch123> did you succeed in splitting it?
20:41:25  <LordAro> all except in the Layouter constructor
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20:41:40  <frosch123> i remember there was some template magic
20:41:49  <LordAro> and the icu stuff doesn't compile :p
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20:42:37  <Wolf01> Bogo sort...
20:46:12  <frosch123> 25/25
20:46:26  <andythenorth> so how do I fix FIRS then?
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20:51:35  <Wolf01> What do you need to fix?
20:53:27  <andythenorth> Steeltown
20:53:32  <andythenorth> is totally borked
20:53:38  <andythenorth> all users hate it
20:54:12  <frosch123> does that include you?
20:54:48  <andythenorth> good q
20:54:52  <andythenorth> I don't hate it
20:55:08  <Wolf01> I should try it first
20:55:10  <frosch123> switch users?
20:55:13  <andythenorth> but I agree with their diagnosis of problem
20:55:36  <andythenorth> also FIRS is way more fun when supplies don't get 4x production
20:56:01  <andythenorth> I am playing a game with 1.5x and 2x (gung ho)
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20:57:23  <andythenorth> not sure if it's fun because better, or fun because different
21:00:09  <Eddi|zuHause> make it a setting
21:00:15  <andythenorth> it is :)
21:00:41  <andythenorth> I just never used it before
21:00:48  <andythenorth> I assumed 4x was some winning value
21:00:55  <Eddi|zuHause> change the (default) settings in incompatible ways during versions, to make updating "fun" :p
21:01:33  <Eddi|zuHause> also, if you make it x1.5, you should make it x2.25
21:01:38  <Wolf01>
21:07:41  <andythenorth> steeltown
21:07:52  <andythenorth> general feedback
21:07:59  <andythenorth> - vehicles should go to towns
21:08:03  <andythenorth> - should be a goods chain
21:08:36  <Eddi|zuHause> i can't read anything in this graph
21:08:48  <andythenorth> that's usually a sign of a bad economy
21:09:04  <andythenorth> I've started refactoring FIRS gameplay to suit the dot algorithm in graphviz :P
21:09:17  * andythenorth not even joking
21:09:26  <frosch123> [23:07] <andythenorth> - vehicles should go to towns <- sin't that the case?
21:09:34  <andythenorth> no
21:09:44  <frosch123> supply yard is not in towns?
21:09:45  <andythenorth> vehicles -> ports, vehicles -> supply yard
21:09:48  <andythenorth> no
21:09:59  <andythenorth> need a vehicle dealer industry I think
21:11:01  <frosch123> there are goods
21:11:08  <frosch123> or do they mean that vehicles should be goods?
21:11:35  <andythenorth> they want vehicles -> vehicle dealer
21:11:41  <andythenorth> and steel -> goods
21:11:43  <andythenorth> both
21:11:51  <Eddi|zuHause> vehicles with TE_GOODS?
21:12:37  <frosch123> steel -> goods feels wrong in steeltown context
21:13:05  <frosch123> there are all these detailed vehicle related cargos produced from steel
21:13:10  <frosch123> just goods is stupid
21:13:16  <andythenorth> that's why it's not there
21:13:40  <andythenorth> I have a split of user opinion on the goods question
21:13:50  <andythenorth> vehicles, they are united :P
21:14:22  <frosch123> well, i don't know who would want less engsup
21:14:29  <Eddi|zuHause> if the opinion is split, means you can ignore it :p
21:14:34  <frosch123> but other than that a vehicle dealer does not hurt
21:14:46  <andythenorth> there is quite enough ensp
21:14:52  <frosch123> about goods: there are already two sources
21:14:58  <andythenorth> the only way to get enough vehicles is to put enough ensp into the chain
21:15:15  <andythenorth> the amounts of raw materials to make 1 vehicle are so high
21:15:26  <andythenorth> ensp is a pre-requisite, rather than a useful output
21:16:01  <frosch123> so you have complains that it is too hard :p
21:16:08  <frosch123> definitely ignore those
21:21:08  * andythenorth moves everything around 
21:21:13  <andythenorth> to see if dot looks good
21:33:36  <andythenorth> hmm
21:33:45  <andythenorth> maybe tomorrow is better :D
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21:35:39  <frosch123> down to 18 seconds
21:39:13  <frosch123> somehow V's spritesheets must be different
21:39:21  <frosch123> single thread is way faster for me
21:44:44  <Eddi|zuHause> when i split CETS into multiple compiles, i ended up with so many files that the overhead of starting up nmlc instances and reading in the files totally ate up most of the benefits of multithreading
21:45:17  <frosch123> yes, andy had the same effect
21:45:53  <Eddi|zuHause> well, i had the original problem that full CETS would kill nmlc with OOM
21:46:48  <Eddi|zuHause> which was an actual problem, not just one of andy's mild annoyances :p
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22:24:45  <_dp_> omg, I just noticed there is a huge blog post about brix
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22:30:52  <Wolf01> 'night
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22:44:01  <_dp_> oh, and even 8bpp-1x version! definitely missed that
22:44:28  <_dp_> V453000, but it on bananas, it's actually something that can sanely be used on servers
22:44:59  <_dp_> tracks look awful in it though :(
22:45:41  <_dp_> is it possible to make default tracks use brix ground sprite?
22:46:16  <_dp_> not sure if rails will be visible on it though. but maglev and mono should be fine
22:48:08  <frosch123> _dp_: md5sum of 32bpp and 8bpp grfs are identical
22:48:14  <frosch123> you can only have one on bananas
22:48:22  <frosch123> but client and server can have different grfs
22:48:38  <frosch123> also brix has a ton of switches to disable various things
22:48:45  <_dp_> frosch123, wut? you mean grfid?
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22:49:11  <frosch123> the md5sum is only computed for the logical part of the grf, not for the sprite data
22:49:30  <_dp_> oh
22:49:32  <frosch123> this allows you to use different 8bpp/32bpp grfs on clients and servers compatibily
22:51:50  <_dp_> but it doesn't allow server to select 8bpp as default version :(
22:52:00  <frosch123> the 8bpp version of brix is created using "grfstrip" which removes selected bpp and zoom levels from a grf without changing the md5 of the logical part
22:52:21  <frosch123> _dp_: that's kind of the intention
22:52:28  <frosch123> anyway, it's a static newgrf
22:52:35  <frosch123> servers shouldn't use it anyway
22:54:05  <_dp_> why not? if I want to combine it with other grfs that look good together
22:54:29  <_dp_> but 80meg download is just not an option for a regular server
22:54:40  <_dp_> 1meg for 8bbp is fine
22:55:23  <_dp_> and if people want 32 they can always download it manually
22:55:44  <frosch123> well, there can only be one default :p
23:01:38  <_dp_> there is always an option to use another grfid for different default
23:02:36  <_dp_> why does even static grf even has to be compatible by md5 or grfid?
23:02:44  <_dp_> it will redefine sprites regardless
23:04:15  <_dp_> allowing people to download different "compatible" version is just another way to select static grf
23:05:00  <_dp_> hm, well, I guess it's not exactly the same as it only "activates" if grf is selected
23:06:44  <_dp_> still a feature that hardly anyone well ever use
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