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00:05:57 *** ToffeeYogurtPots has quit IRC 00:06:27 *** ToffeeYogurtPots has joined #openttd 00:29:07 *** Guest7863 is now known as Prof_Frink 00:29:44 *** Prof_Frink is now known as Guest7865 00:41:13 *** JacobD88 has quit IRC 01:03:02 *** Gustavo6046 has quit IRC 01:07:06 *** newgrfquestion has joined #openttd 01:07:36 <newgrfquestion> hi. is there someone here that knows about newgrf parameters for a dedicated openttd server? 01:12:30 *** Samu has quit IRC 01:14:28 *** smoke_fumus has quit IRC 01:30:15 <newgrfquestion> is there a wiki or any other website that can help one set up newgrf parameters without a gui? 01:30:19 *** Guest7865 is now known as Prof_Frink 01:30:58 *** Prof_Frink is now known as Guest7868 01:36:51 <Eddi|zuHause> the easiest way is to set it up with a gui, and then copy either the savegame or the config section over to the headless server 01:39:01 <newgrfquestion> yeah thats the problem, 01:39:12 <newgrfquestion> the server is on a vm and he doesnt have access to a gui. he says it has to be all cmd line 01:39:23 <newgrfquestion> so is there an rcon command to change the parameters? 01:39:51 <newgrfquestion> he changed the openttd.cfg file but that apparently doesnt list the newgrf parameters 01:39:55 <newgrfquestion> checked* 01:41:23 <Eddi|zuHause> it does, but only if they differ from the default, i guess 01:42:46 <newgrfquestion> so how would would change the parameters for FIRS? 01:43:07 <newgrfquestion> is it possible just thru the openttd.cfg? i didnt see a listed for parameters there 01:43:16 <newgrfquestion> only a basic list of newgrfs currently running 01:44:31 <Eddi|zuHause> i don't have a [newgrf] section, but in the [preset-<whatever>] sections it's something like this: "nutracks-1.1.1/nutracks.grf = 0 2 0 0 80 125 180 230" 01:45:18 <Eddi|zuHause> the [newgrf] section also includes the md5 sum of the grf, i think 01:46:20 <newgrfquestion> have you used FIRS before? 01:46:29 <newgrfquestion> i just need to figure out which number changes the economy 01:46:43 *** milek7 has quit IRC 01:47:19 *** milek7 has joined #openttd 01:51:19 <newgrfquestion> Eddi|zuHause: thanks! also, do you know of an alternative to the openttd wiki that lists more information too? 01:52:11 <Eddi|zuHause> which parameter does what you need to check in the specific newgrf documentation 01:54:40 <newgrfquestion> well from the string of numbers, is it the first one that determines the economy in FIRS? 02:01:46 <Eddi|zuHause> order should be the same as in the parameter gui 02:16:07 <newgrfquestion> i see 02:25:48 <Cubey> The openttdcoop wiki has a lot of information but some of it is specific to their server https://wiki.openttdcoop.org/Main_Page 02:31:20 *** Guest7868 is now known as Prof_Frink 02:31:59 *** Prof_Frink is now known as Guest7873 02:32:46 <newgrfquestion> do you know of a more generalized wiki for openttd besides the default one? 02:32:57 <newgrfquestion> the old openttd wiki has too many holes in it 02:33:17 <newgrfquestion> this is the old one: wiki.openttd.org 02:48:49 *** ToffeeYogurtPots has quit IRC 03:28:59 *** glx has quit IRC 03:32:20 *** Guest7873 is now known as Prof_Frink 03:32:58 *** Prof_Frink is now known as Guest7877 04:26:34 <Flygon> Oh man. 04:26:38 <Flygon> I used that Wiki when I was new. 04:26:44 <Flygon> And it's outdatedness, uh, bit. 04:28:02 <newgrfquestion> Flygon: whats a better wiki to use for openttd 04:30:57 <Flygon> I don't think one exists. 04:31:16 <Flygon> I mostly got my way through trial and error, asking the IRC for help, and asking the forums for help. 04:31:58 <planetmaker> newgrfquestion, the wiki is written and updated by people like you... 04:32:26 <planetmaker> Besides that the wiki is moderately accurate 04:33:00 <planetmaker> NewGRF parameters for a server are no different than for a single player game 04:33:08 *** Guest7877 is now known as Prof_Frink 04:33:48 *** Prof_Frink is now known as Guest7879 04:42:18 *** HerzogDeXtEr1 has joined #openttd 04:48:57 *** HerzogDeXtEr has quit IRC 05:10:00 *** Supercheese has joined #openttd 05:11:53 *** Cubey has quit IRC 05:20:36 *** mindlesstux has quit IRC 05:21:14 *** mindlesstux has joined #openttd 05:34:09 *** Guest7879 is now known as Prof_Frink 05:34:48 *** Prof_Frink is now known as Guest7882 05:41:34 *** newgrfquestion has left #openttd 05:54:14 *** PressureLine has joined #openttd 05:54:40 <PressureLine> Happy Halloween! 06:05:24 *** Arveen has joined #openttd 06:10:27 *** Arveen2 has quit IRC 06:21:01 *** Supercheese has quit IRC 06:21:37 *** Supercheese has joined #openttd 06:35:09 *** Guest7882 is now known as Prof_Frink 06:35:22 *** andythenorth has joined #openttd 06:35:48 *** Prof_Frink is now known as Guest7884 06:37:23 *** andythenorth has quit IRC 06:42:50 *** gelignite has joined #openttd 06:56:17 *** tokai|noir has joined #openttd 06:56:17 *** ChanServ sets mode: +v tokai|noir 07:03:13 *** tokai has quit IRC 07:31:05 *** Progman has joined #openttd 07:36:09 *** Guest7884 is now known as Prof_Frink 07:36:48 *** Prof_Frink is now known as Guest7888 08:01:49 *** Supercheese has quit IRC 08:02:52 *** zerm has quit IRC 08:11:34 <PressureLine> So. 08:12:01 <PressureLine> made a crazy 'OpenTTD Calculations spreadsheet' 08:14:08 <PressureLine> https://i.imgur.com/FWQ7skJ.png 08:29:48 <PressureLine> but the real question is, is 1100kW cutting it too close for a load that needs 1070kW to hit 80kph on level ground? 08:34:33 *** andythenorth has joined #openttd 08:37:10 *** Guest7888 is now known as Prof_Frink 08:37:49 *** Prof_Frink is now known as Guest7889 08:40:13 *** JacobD88 has joined #openttd 08:40:45 <PressureLine> well. it appears to be 08:41:31 <PressureLine> also: andy, it appears your trams really don't like driving on the RHS of the road :( 08:54:31 *** JacobD88 has quit IRC 09:06:11 <andythenorth> PressureLine: I've seen this in HEQS too 09:06:44 <andythenorth> have you confirmed it's definitely the RHS that has problems, not both sides? 09:09:27 <PressureLine> yes 09:10:05 <PressureLine> https://i.imgur.com/mTLc8hX.png 09:10:24 <PressureLine> fine for left hand driving 09:11:37 <PressureLine> not fine for right hand driving 09:11:39 <PressureLine> https://i.imgur.com/Ioir3le.png 09:12:37 <andythenorth> ok 09:12:42 <andythenorth> so it's not just me then 09:14:55 <andythenorth> thanks 09:14:58 * andythenorth bbl 09:14:58 *** andythenorth has left #openttd 09:18:21 *** PressureLine has quit IRC 09:24:16 *** TheMask96 has quit IRC 09:24:28 *** ToffeeYogurtPots has joined #openttd 09:29:58 *** TheMask96 has joined #openttd 09:33:44 *** efess has quit IRC 09:34:02 *** efess has joined #openttd 09:38:10 *** Guest7889 is now known as Prof_Frink 09:38:48 *** Prof_Frink is now known as Guest7898 10:05:43 *** supermop_ has joined #openttd 10:08:09 *** supermop_ has quit IRC 10:09:06 *** supermop_ has joined #openttd 10:11:48 *** supermop has quit IRC 10:15:44 *** supermop has joined #openttd 10:17:38 *** Breckett has joined #openttd 10:21:53 *** supermop_ has quit IRC 10:39:10 *** Guest7898 is now known as Prof_Frink 10:39:49 *** Prof_Frink is now known as Guest7908 10:40:35 *** Wolf01 has joined #openttd 10:43:22 *** ToffeeYogurtPots has quit IRC 10:53:59 *** ToffeeYogurtPots has joined #openttd 10:54:12 <Wolf01> o/ 10:57:58 *** Samu has joined #openttd 10:58:04 <Samu> good day 11:06:40 *** ToffeeYogurtPots has quit IRC 11:06:47 *** ToffeeYogurtPots has joined #openttd 11:40:11 *** Guest7908 is now known as Prof_Frink 11:40:48 *** Prof_Frink is now known as Guest7913 11:48:21 *** JacobD88 has joined #openttd 12:03:38 *** Flygon has quit IRC 12:14:26 *** nick213 has joined #openttd 12:15:55 *** roidal has joined #openttd 12:16:26 *** Breckett has quit IRC 12:41:11 *** Guest7913 is now known as Prof_Frink 12:41:48 *** Prof_Frink is now known as Guest7919 12:44:32 *** roidal has quit IRC 12:44:54 *** Breckett has joined #openttd 12:48:24 *** Breckett has quit IRC 12:48:39 *** Breckett has joined #openttd 12:50:40 *** smoke_fumus has joined #openttd 12:59:17 *** Breckett_ has joined #openttd 12:59:52 *** Gja has joined #openttd 13:03:29 *** JacobD88 has quit IRC 13:06:02 *** Breckett has quit IRC 13:06:07 *** Breckett_ has quit IRC 13:06:22 *** Breckett has joined #openttd 13:24:14 *** Breckett has quit IRC 13:33:25 <supermop> yo 13:33:56 <Wolf01> o/ 13:34:25 <supermop> hows it going in italy? 13:34:37 <Wolf01> Same shit 13:35:40 <Wolf01> Today I signed the job contract, 3 months at 500€/month... I need 800€/month at least :( 13:36:28 <__ln__> how many hours per week is that? 13:36:32 <Wolf01> 40 13:36:34 <__ln__> wtf 13:36:38 <Wolf01> Yes 13:36:53 <__ln__> how many minutes do italian hours have 13:37:29 <Wolf01> The usual 60 13:37:41 <supermop> that does seems low 13:37:58 <supermop> what is the minimum wage in italy? 13:38:15 <Wolf01> Ahaha, I think the minimum does not exists 13:38:49 <Wolf01> Depends to the collective contract, but if you aren't covered by that then shit 13:40:06 <Wolf01> At least I won't be subject to overtime 13:40:15 <supermop> there isn't a national minimum> 13:40:29 <supermop> not even some basic EU mandated one? 13:41:04 <Wolf01> Maybe, but they do what they want anyway 13:41:28 <supermop> federal minimum here is 7.25 13:41:42 <supermop> of course NY state is higher 13:42:30 <supermop> but the issue here is more that people often only get scheduled for like 20-30 hours a week when they are at those levels, and then need to get 2nd or 3rd jobs 13:43:10 <supermop> of course if you are on salary, there is basically no limit on how long you work 13:43:19 <Wolf01> But this should be a transition period, then I'll be hired (I hope) like others and get ~1200€/month 13:43:35 *** Guest7919 is now known as Prof_Frink 13:43:41 <__ln__> ~1200€/month for what kind of work? 13:43:46 <Wolf01> Developer 13:44:04 <Eddi|zuHause> that seems really low 13:44:06 <Wolf01> And that's really the minimum 13:44:08 *** Prof_Frink is now known as Guest7924 13:44:19 <supermop> 1200/month seems very low for developer 13:44:19 <__ln__> indeed really low 13:44:46 <supermop> that is below poverty line in US 13:45:03 <supermop> Wolf01: you should move to the US, as bad as it is here 13:45:34 <Wolf01> They use the trade collective contract which has low salary but 14 paydays (2 of them are semestral and about 60% of the base salary) 13:45:37 <supermop> in NYC developer salary is about 10x that 13:46:02 <supermop> well not quite 10x 13:46:08 <supermop> but could be 13:46:11 <SpComb> that doesn't sound like a living wage in the EU 13:46:44 <Wolf01> If they were metalworkers (hardware maintainers usually are) I would get 1500€/month but 13 paydays 13:47:20 <Wolf01> Eh, I know, that's why I'm not able to move out from home... at least not on my own 13:48:29 <supermop> if you are under 30, maybe you should go to Aus. on working holiday, and do 6 month contract jobs 13:48:46 <supermop> then maybe make a connection who will pay to sponsor you to go there after 13:48:52 <Wolf01> I'm over 30, and that's why I didn't find other jobs here too 13:48:59 <supermop> :( 13:49:39 <Wolf01> Also, the shitty thing is that the company is at 40km from home and I'll spend 260-300€ on fuel every month doing basic calculations 13:50:01 <Wolf01> This mean: I won't get anywhere with 200€/month 13:52:55 <__ln__> are you good enough developer to get hired somewhere abroad? if you start looking for opportunities farther away... 13:55:08 <Wolf01> No, I don't think I'm good enough, maybe for prototyping yes, I know many things and about everything from hardware to software, networks, plc, but all academic or for personal culture... also I won't move out by myself 13:55:44 <__ln__> people do move out by themselves 13:56:08 <V453000> I find it dumb to talk about money across countries, in czech republic 1500 euros per month wouldn't be a golden mine but it would be fine for you 13:56:10 <V453000> for example 13:56:21 <V453000> of course NYC salaries will be higher but with it every other expense 13:57:39 <Wolf01> Yes, but they are right, <800€ here you are below the poverty threshold 13:57:47 <Eddi|zuHause> i make quite a bit more than that, and still think i'm rather at the lower end 13:58:35 <V453000> idk how do italy prices compare to eddiland 13:58:36 <Wolf01> And to be able to rent a room you need at least 350€ for a single room with the WC in the kitchen 13:59:10 <Wolf01> And you have to pay for the light, phone, gas too 13:59:49 <__ln__> who needs light or phone 14:00:21 <Wolf01> Fucking internet when you aren't at work and you can't afford the pub 14:00:51 *** Gja has quit IRC 14:02:01 *** Gustavo6046 has joined #openttd 14:03:14 *** Gustavo6046 has quit IRC 14:03:57 *** Gustavo6046 has joined #openttd 14:09:05 <supermop> V453000: i would have assumed that italy would be slightly cheaper than non-NYC US, but not that much cheaper 14:09:38 <supermop> when my grandmother died, we sold her house for 20000USD, which was pretty decent price for the area 14:09:58 <__ln__> my impression is that italy certainly isn't at the czech republic level of cheap 14:10:28 <supermop> i would have assumed that no where in Italy could you buy a nice 3 bedroom home for 20000 14:10:36 <V453000> I was just trying to point out that it's all relative :) 14:11:13 <Wolf01> Lol, here a house cost from 70k to 250k€, and the rents are really high too 14:11:43 <__ln__> when i visited prague and plzen, i was like "what do i do with all this cash when nothing costs nearly nothing" 14:11:54 <V453000> haha 14:12:16 <__ln__> and i hadn't reserved particularly much cash 14:13:10 <Wolf01> I found that Japan was cheaper than Shitaly in many many things, also more comfortable for commuting 14:17:21 <Wolf01> For example we stayed at a ryokan in Kyoto, my friend "ok, this time you have seen how a ryokan is, next time a capsule hotel" my answer "wtf that was like a 5 star hotel in Italy, and we paid only for a 3 star one, ryokan for the life" 14:26:40 <supermop> if you factor in the meals at a ryokan, it really is a great deal 14:27:04 <Wolf01> Yes 14:27:17 <Wolf01> Meal, room service, rooms too 14:27:20 <supermop> best two meals i had on my last japan trip were the dinner and breakfast at the ryokan 14:27:29 <supermop> onsen on site 14:27:32 <supermop> at this one 14:34:03 <Samu> hi there 14:34:32 <Samu> why is that this function DeliverGoodsToIndustry 14:34:40 <Samu> can deal with town cargo as well 14:34:44 <Samu> but be named like that 14:36:23 <Samu> oh i see 14:36:33 <Samu> INVALID_INDUSTRY 14:36:41 <Samu> a town is an invalid industry 14:38:41 <Samu> so if there's an industry accepting passengers and a house accepting passengers 14:38:52 <Samu> the industry will be checked first 14:39:31 <Samu> should be the opposite, to make sense, but yeah, this is not real life 14:42:24 *** frosch123 has joined #openttd 14:43:37 <V453000> some guy is asking me "what file to modify to increase max number of vehicles" ... apparently he is compiling his own openttd, or has someone compile it for him 14:43:49 <V453000> is there some simple answer I could pass to him? 14:44:16 <LordAro> "no" 14:44:25 <frosch123> vehicles as in "articulated parts" or vehicles as in "max 5000 trains per company"? 14:44:39 <V453000> max 5000 RVs per company 14:44:45 <frosch123> settings.ini probably 14:44:45 <V453000> he already has a version which allows 20 000 apparently 14:45:03 <frosch123> src/table/settings.ini or something 14:45:06 <Wolf01> Just look for 20000 and change it :D 14:45:12 *** Guest7924 is now known as Prof_Frink 14:45:27 <V453000> Wolf01: :P 14:45:39 <V453000> his cpu can reportedly somehow manage 20k 14:45:51 <V453000> 'it's a bit slower but eh' he says 14:45:52 <V453000> :D 14:45:52 *** Prof_Frink is now known as Guest7927 14:46:13 <V453000> frosch123: what's the maximum articulated amount? :D 14:46:24 <Samu> i tried 65536 vehicles or so before 14:46:31 <frosch123> V453000: http://hg.openttd.org/trunk.hg/file/688d1dc200af/src/table/settings.ini#l961 14:46:35 <Wolf01> So he wants 50k maybe, it's already slow and it will be twice as slow, but who cares? :D 14:46:46 <V453000> frosch123: thank you :) 14:46:58 <frosch123> V453000: i think all articulated parts of all consists of all companies may not exceed 24 million or so 14:47:00 <Samu> you have to edit the GUI thing to accept 5 digits 14:47:06 <Samu> or you can only type 4 14:47:08 <V453000> :D oh 14:47:42 <V453000> that sounds pretty damn hard to reach 14:47:52 <V453000> even if you use 1/8 articulation and have 5 tile trains 14:47:54 <frosch123> hmm, it's way lower 14:47:59 <frosch123> @calc 0xFF000 14:47:59 <DorpsGek> frosch123: 1044480 14:48:04 <frosch123> one million :) 14:48:11 <V453000> still 14:48:32 <Samu> @calc 65536 * 15 14:48:32 <DorpsGek> Samu: 983040 14:48:35 <Samu> gits 14:48:36 <frosch123> prevously it was 64k, which was reached by someone 14:48:51 <V453000> hm 14:49:01 <V453000> sounds pretty nuts 14:55:41 *** Gustavo6046 has quit IRC 14:55:48 <Samu> peter1138: here's a but for u 14:55:57 <Samu> void AddCargoDelivery(CargoID cargo_type, CompanyID company, uint32 amount, SourceType src_type, SourceID src, const Station *st) 14:55:59 *** Gustavo6046 has joined #openttd 14:56:12 <V453000> frosch123: LiukSK thanks you :P 14:56:18 <V453000> he's sending slug army your way 14:56:27 <Samu> bug* 14:57:06 <Samu> teh cargo monitor code doesn't do the same as the DeliverGoodsToIndustry 14:59:25 <Samu> if delivergoodstoindustry does 10 to industry A and 0 to industry B, cargo monitor will do 10 to industry a and 10 to industry B 15:11:19 *** Compu has quit IRC 15:15:24 *** Compu has joined #openttd 15:21:33 *** cHawk has quit IRC 15:22:37 *** Gja has joined #openttd 15:24:19 *** Borg has joined #openttd 15:24:20 <Borg> yoo.. 15:24:42 <Borg> dont you think that multihead trains (those w/ 2 locos, A i B) are broken in OpenTTD? 15:25:02 <Borg> only for cases where loco can carry pasanger cars, they should never be actually splitted 15:27:37 <Samu> multi engines? 15:29:47 *** sla_ro|master has joined #openttd 15:30:11 *** cHawk has joined #openttd 15:30:14 <frosch123> that kind of stuff is controlled by newgrf 15:30:27 <frosch123> if you don't like the behaviour, use a different newgrf 15:34:06 <Eddi|zuHause> Borg: some newgrfs forbid you to put anything other than passenger cars on them 15:37:13 *** TheMask96 has quit IRC 15:39:11 *** TheMask96 has joined #openttd 15:39:51 <frosch123> what to do when your grf takes 14 minutes to compile? 15:41:24 <Samu> buy more cores 15:42:22 <Samu> supermop: i just converted 4 settings into 1 15:42:30 <V453000> how many sprites now frosch123? 15:43:08 <Samu> STR_CONFIG_SETTING_SHARE_INDUSTRY_STATION_CARGO :Share neutral stations cargoes with company stations: {STRING2} STR_CONFIG_SETTING_SHARE_INDUSTRY_STATION_CARGO_HELPTEXT :When enabled, any cargo accepted or supplied on industry stations may also be accepted or supplied on company owned stations. When disabled, the cargoes accepted or supplied on neutral stations is only for the industry it's attached to 15:43:20 <Samu> is it clear, or needs english fixes? 15:43:29 <frosch123> 12k to 800k depending how you count 15:43:42 <V453000> :D 800 thousand sprites? 15:43:43 <V453000> ok 15:43:53 <Eddi|zuHause> sounds like CETS 15:46:12 *** Guest7927 is now known as Prof_Frink 15:46:52 *** Prof_Frink is now known as Guest7931 15:48:49 <frosch123> wtf, this time python crashed 15:50:51 *** Gja has quit IRC 15:51:07 <V453000> nice 15:51:49 <V453000> btw what is the part which makes a difference in an item between wagon and engine? 15:51:56 <V453000> no refittable cargo classes/labels? 15:52:11 <V453000> no, cabooses and shit still are wagons, right? 15:52:24 <frosch123> iirc it's "power" 15:52:31 <V453000> oh, interesting 15:53:01 <V453000> thanks :) I completely forgot that and from looking at nuts I couldn't eyeball it fast enough :D 15:55:39 <Eddi|zuHause> sounds also like CETS 15:56:00 <frosch123> it was no oom or similar 15:56:08 <frosch123> i only marginally changed some pixels 15:57:02 <frosch123> mem usage is actually quite low 15:57:16 <frosch123> the nml is simple, just very long 15:57:38 <frosch123> flat structure, no deep links or similar 15:57:52 <frosch123> also it crashed at the very end when writing the output 15:57:56 <frosch123> disk is not full :p 15:59:11 <Eddi|zuHause> problem with CETS usually was ply not working well with large files 15:59:22 <V453000> :0 15:59:50 <Eddi|zuHause> maybe that is better in python3 16:01:21 <frosch123> hmm acutally memusage increases a lot during "generating actions" 16:01:48 *** Cubey has joined #openttd 16:04:36 *** newgrfquestion has joined #openttd 16:05:11 <newgrfquestion> is there a way to tell a train to split the cargo at 2 destinations or more? 16:05:39 <newgrfquestion> so if a train is hauling multiple cars of oil, how do I tell it to split that between 2 stations or more? 16:05:53 <Progman> is cargodist an option 16:05:54 <Progman> ? 16:06:02 <newgrfquestion> no the server doesnt have that enabled 16:06:28 <newgrfquestion> do i need another NewGRF to get that to work? 16:06:50 *** Wormnest has joined #openttd 16:14:26 <Eddi|zuHause> no, newgrf has no influence on that 16:14:45 <Eddi|zuHause> but you can unload at an intermediate station, and have two smaller trains load 16:17:45 <Borg> frosch123: ahh.. yeah, I use plain orginal gfx.. 16:20:48 <newgrfquestion> Eddi|zuHause: but theres no way to just tell a large train to split it? 16:20:58 <Eddi|zuHause> no 16:21:47 <newgrfquestion> well thats disappointing 16:22:40 <newgrfquestion> maybe a possible feature in a future version? 16:22:58 <Eddi|zuHause> there used to be a patch 16:23:31 <Eddi|zuHause> but the general consensus is to not add more complicated order stuff before the order gui gets cleaned up 16:23:56 <Cubey> Cargodist already exists anyway 16:28:03 <newgrfquestion> there going to change the gui soon? 16:28:06 <newgrfquestion> theyre* 16:29:26 <LordAro> define "soon" 16:30:34 *** Stimrol has joined #openttd 16:32:20 <Samu> i'm looking for english expert once again. I reduced the number of settings from 4 to 1, merged all the behaviours into just 1 setting, how do i title it? 16:33:27 *** zerm has joined #openttd 16:34:57 <Samu> Allow water-based industries cargoes on company stations? 16:35:26 <LordAro> that sounds fine 16:35:42 <Samu> oki, ty 16:36:31 <debdog> not knowing what's going on, but it might be "Allow water-based industrie's cargoes on company stations" 16:37:34 <Samu> debdog:it's this https://www.tt-forums.net/viewtopic.php?f=33&t=77199 16:38:26 <Samu> industrie's? 16:38:34 *** ToffeeYogurtPots has quit IRC 16:39:26 <LordAro> "industries'", if anything 16:39:44 <Samu> ok 16:40:04 <debdog> ok 16:40:18 *** newgrfquestion has left #openttd 16:41:00 <LordAro> (note the trailing ') 16:41:05 <Samu> i see 16:41:14 *** ToffeeYogurtPots has joined #openttd 16:41:16 <Samu> Allow water-based industries' cargoes on company stations: {STRING2} 16:41:44 <Samu> and now, how to describe it, HELPTEXT 16:47:12 *** Guest7931 is now known as Prof_Frink 16:47:33 <Samu> "When enabled, any cargo acceptance or suppliance of an industry with an attached station (such as Oil Rigs) may also be accepted or supplied on company owned stations." 16:47:52 *** Prof_Frink is now known as Guest7936 16:47:56 <Samu> here comes hell 16:48:20 <Samu> When disabled, insert hellish description 16:55:49 *** zerm has quit IRC 16:55:56 <Samu> "When disabled, industries with an attached station may only serve the industries they're paired with, and any company stations nearby won't be able to serve them." 16:59:39 <Samu> Company owned stations may serve water-based industries 16:59:58 <Samu> Allow company owned stations to serve water industries 17:00:05 <Samu> hmm 17:00:16 <Samu> seems more right to the point 17:04:51 <Samu> STR_CONFIG_SETTING_SHARE_INDUSTRY_STATION_CARGO_HELPTEXT :When enabled, serving industries with attached stations (such as Oil Rigs) may also be served on company owned stations when built nearby. When disabled, industries with an attached station may only serve the industries they're paired with, and any company stations nearby won't be able to serve them 17:05:17 <Samu> if built nearby 17:07:15 <Samu> is it serving, or servicing? 17:20:15 <Samu> https://imgur.com/3DiHLiG 17:20:45 <Samu> supermop: 1 setting for all 4 behaviours, u there? 17:48:13 *** Guest7936 is now known as Prof_Frink 17:48:53 *** Prof_Frink is now known as Guest7939 17:54:56 *** cHawk has quit IRC 18:13:32 *** nick213 has quit IRC 18:13:48 *** cHawk has joined #openttd 18:24:19 <Cubey> Samu hey that looks pretty good, "Allow company owned stations to serve water industries" is direct and suitably descriptive 18:25:03 <Cubey> The "water industries" term is a bit novel as we discussed yesterday, but since it is explained in the helptext with the helpful example of oil rigs, it is fine 18:25:39 <Samu> :D 18:26:20 <Cubey> I would clean up the helptext a little, maybe "When enabled, industries with attached stations (such as Oil Rigs) may also be served by company owned stations built nearby." for the first sentence 18:27:33 <Cubey> "When disabled, these industries may only be served by their attached stations, and any nearby company owned stations won't be able to serve them." 18:27:39 <Cubey> For the second sentence 18:27:45 <Samu> thx, i'm taking note 18:28:41 <Cubey> When I first saw this yesterday, it was not clear to me what the purpose of the patch was. Now i think it is pretty self-explanatory, as it should be 18:29:21 *** glx has joined #openttd 18:29:21 *** ChanServ sets mode: +v glx 18:29:52 <Samu> it kind of feels bad removing stuff that was already done 18:29:57 <Samu> but it simplifies 18:31:56 <Cubey> Yeah it's like editing in writing 18:32:29 <Cubey> Sometimes trimming the fat is the best way to improve the whole, even though it feels like erasing work you've already done 18:33:01 <Samu> STR_CONFIG_SETTING_SERVE_WATER_INDUSTRIES_HELPTEXT :When enabled, industries with attached stations (such as Oil Rigs) may also be served by company owned stations built nearby. When disabled, these industries may only be served by their attached stations, and any nearby company stations won't be able to serve them 18:33:35 <Samu> STR_CONFIG_SETTING_SERVE_WATER_INDUSTRIES :Allow company owned stations to serve water industries: {STRING2} 18:34:29 <Cubey> I wonder if you should just carry over the "industries with attached stations" terminology from the helptext over to the main string 18:35:21 <Cubey> However others might disagree if they see "water industries" as an established shorthand for that 18:35:34 <Samu> yes, there's still some size left before horizontal scrolling 18:36:30 <Cubey> I worry a little bit about people misunderstanding "attached stations" to mean something like "stations placed directly adjacent to the industry" 18:36:54 <Samu> sometimes I call them "neutral stations" 18:37:37 <Cubey> Both are descriptive yet somewhat problematic 18:38:01 <Cubey> So I guess it just comes down to the helptext to cover the ambiguity 18:39:01 <Samu> i've been adding comments in the code, and damn, it's really hard to explain everything, feels like I'm writing a book just for a line of code 18:39:29 <Samu> /* Oil rig cargo is served by none other than Oil Rig stations, unless the setting is enabled */ if (on_water && !IsOilRigTile(st->xy) && !_settings_game.station.serve_water_industries) continue; 18:39:52 <Samu> this one is short, but i got some big ones 18:40:07 <Samu> /* Special case when there's more than one Oil Rig. Cargo served to Oil Rig station #1 comes only from Oil Rig #1 and not from any other Oil Rig */ if (on_water && IsOilRigTile(st->xy) && source_type == ST_INDUSTRY && !IsStationIndustryPair(st, source_id) && !_settings_game.station.serve_water_industries) continue; 18:41:40 <Samu> /* The station accepting the cargo is a neutral station (station 1) belonging to an industry (industry 1), * but there may be other neutral stations nearby (station n) belonging to their respective industries (industry n). * Is the station accepting the cargo (station 1) a part of the industry it's attached to (industry 1)? */ 18:42:01 <Samu> if (HasIndustryStation(ind) && IsOilRigTile(st->xy) && !IsStationIndustryPair(st, ind->index) && !_settings_game.station.serve_water_industries) continue; 18:44:54 <Samu> i'm not uploading v4 yet, because i dunno what to do when the base code is also bugged 18:46:09 <Samu> CargoMonitor.cpp AddCargoDelivery 18:46:11 <Samu> line 121 18:48:11 <Samu> when it deals with industry delivery, it does not match the behaviour of DeliverGoodsToIndustry on economy.cpp 18:48:32 <Samu> the monitorizing is broken 18:49:13 *** Guest7939 is now known as Prof_Frink 18:49:45 *** Prof_Frink is now known as Guest7943 18:50:27 <Samu> are u a dev Cubey 18:51:06 <Samu> peter1138: u still away? 18:51:18 <Samu> wanted to report this bug before I proceed with my own changes 18:54:13 *** Progman has quit IRC 18:59:31 <Samu> well anyway, thx cubey 19:00:34 <Samu> guess i'm posting v4 anyway 19:09:08 *** HerzogDeXtEr1 has quit IRC 19:18:26 *** cHawk has quit IRC 19:18:53 *** cHawk has joined #openttd 19:20:37 <Wolf01> <Samu> i'm not uploading v4 yet, because i dunno what to do when the base code is also bugged <- fix the base code in a separate patch 19:33:40 *** cHawk has quit IRC 19:37:29 <Samu> damn it, why me? :( 19:37:58 <Samu> i fix it in a way, then 1.8.0 or so comes out and it's fixed in another way, and rips my code :( 19:40:45 <Samu> and usually you fix it better than me 19:41:13 *** andythenorth has joined #openttd 19:41:27 <andythenorth> o/ 19:41:38 <Samu> hi andythenorth 19:42:38 <frosch123> o\ 19:43:31 <andythenorth> is chlorine heavy industry enough? o_O 19:45:44 <frosch123> you can combine glass with some serious acids 19:47:19 <frosch123> glass + hydrofluoric acid -> goods 19:48:04 <frosch123> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chemical_milling 19:48:10 <frosch123> also works with steel and copper 19:48:26 <frosch123> though those use way less serious stuff than hydrofluoric acid 19:50:13 *** Guest7943 is now known as Prof_Frink 19:50:45 *** Prof_Frink is now known as Guest7944 19:52:08 <andythenorth> I am going to add some badass chemicals cluster 19:52:48 <frosch123> chemicals and acids would also work with paper 19:53:18 <frosch123> both in paper production, and in making printing plates 19:53:41 *** zerm has joined #openttd 19:53:53 <frosch123> wood + chlor -> paper, steel + acid -> printing plate, paper + printing plate -> goods 19:56:41 <frosch123> hmm, no, printing plates actually use aluminum 19:56:49 <frosch123> so, drop that :) 19:59:12 <andythenorth> aluminium is possible 19:59:15 <andythenorth> but seems too modern 19:59:21 <andythenorth> even though it's not :P 19:59:44 <andythenorth> salt -> chlorine, caustic sod 19:59:49 <frosch123> yeah, so mechanical printing plate, no photo-plates :) 19:59:56 <andythenorth> caustic soda -> aluminium plant :P 20:00:19 <andythenorth> Arctic Basic has sulphuric acid -> paper mill btw 20:00:31 <andythenorth> generic 'chemicals' is less interesting than more detailed ones 20:01:00 <frosch123> yeah, hydrofluoric acid does hardly sound dangerous :p 20:01:11 <frosch123> it has "hydro" in it :) 20:04:37 *** oskari89 has joined #openttd 20:13:23 *** smoke_fumus has quit IRC 20:31:18 <Eddi|zuHause> and flour is also not dangerous at all 20:32:34 <debdog> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dust_explosion 20:33:19 <andythenorth> flour kills 20:35:18 *** Borg has quit IRC 20:38:05 <Eddi|zuHause> debdog: i know, that was half of the joke :p 20:38:31 <debdog> hehe, soryy, not yet used to the humor in here 20:40:06 <Eddi|zuHause> (the other half being that "flour" and "fluor" are vastly different things) 20:41:49 <Eddi|zuHause> (and the third half is that "hydro", as in water, is the cause for like 90% of the damage caused by natural disasters) 20:44:40 <frosch123> also, water is de-hydrating 20:51:14 *** Guest7944 is now known as Prof_Frink 20:51:42 *** Progman has joined #openttd 20:51:45 *** Prof_Frink is now known as Guest7947 21:03:08 <andythenorth> supermop: too shiny fro Steeltown? http://bundles.openttdcoop.org/firs/push/LATEST/docs/html/industries.html#oil_refinery 21:03:39 <supermop> andythenorth: i've often wondered that 21:04:03 <supermop> i am too young to have ever seen non-shiny oilr refineries though 21:04:14 <andythenorth> I can do oil -> refinery, or use the tank farm as a source 21:04:24 <supermop> so i don't know if a dark one would look odd 21:04:31 <andythenorth> I never thought oil refinery fits in steeltown 21:04:37 <supermop> isn't tank farm equally shiny? 21:04:47 <supermop> we have them in the rust belt 21:04:55 <andythenorth> yes, but it doesn't matter somehow that it's shiny 21:05:36 <supermop> not exactly sure why, but they exist at some distance from most large american cities, even outside of oil producing regions 21:05:39 <frosch123> https://c2.staticflickr.com/2/1203/834203654_00eaf443c6_b.jpg <- picture of old things also don't tell you how they looked when new 21:05:57 <frosch123> but i guess tanks should not be white 21:06:11 <supermop> i guess with fracking most of the rust belt is technically an oil producing region now 21:06:17 <andythenorth> wow https://www.elementofsurprise.org/ 21:06:27 <supermop> agree with frosch123 - it's the tanks than make it look modern 21:06:54 <supermop> haha what is with the chlorine content marketing 21:07:06 <andythenorth> weird eh? 21:07:48 <supermop> espescially because consumers are rarely in a position to make a decision about buying chlorine 21:08:03 * andythenorth has chlorine 21:08:05 <supermop> if you have a pool, you don't really have a choice 21:08:05 <andythenorth> for hot tub 21:08:27 <supermop> andythenorth: the choice though is buy chlorine or lose the tub 21:08:37 <supermop> not buy chlorine or something else 21:08:38 <andythenorth> cargo label for caustic soda. NaOH? 21:08:39 <andythenorth> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sodium_hydroxide 21:08:46 <andythenorth> there is bromine alternative 21:08:50 <andythenorth> or getting diseases 21:08:53 <andythenorth> both valid options 21:09:11 <supermop> i think your hot tub will clog up with algae first 21:09:21 <andythenorth> nah, there is separate algaecide 21:09:34 <andythenorth> there is a thing called hot tub ear 21:09:40 <supermop> pool might not notice it going bad until you get some amoeba eating your brain 21:09:43 <andythenorth> which breeds nicely at 39 degrees 21:10:08 <andythenorth> so NAOH, or CAUS? 21:10:21 <andythenorth> or LYE_ 21:10:24 <andythenorth> LYE_ is best 21:13:50 <V453000> I see a flexible cargo system is more than a requirement for a train set which is hoping to cope with andy's ideas :D 21:14:28 <supermop> hmm bad day to be a cyclist here 21:14:54 <Eddi|zuHause> V453000: that is an almost impossible task :p 21:15:17 <V453000> almost 21:16:30 <Eddi|zuHause> V453000: just imagine you're MB, and you released a popular set 12 years ago, and made some halfbaked inflexible cargo addon 5 years ago 21:16:48 <frosch123> andythenorth: SOAP ? 21:16:54 <V453000> imagining failed 21:23:22 <andythenorth> frosch123: SOAP tempting 21:23:29 <andythenorth> might be quite...aggressive at cleaning 21:23:44 * andythenorth will use it 21:24:04 <andythenorth> or CAUS 21:24:07 <andythenorth> eh 21:24:27 *** sla_ro|master has quit IRC 21:24:34 <andythenorth> there is soda ash already, which makes me think lye is better 21:26:16 <frosch123> soda lye 21:26:51 <glx> I think vehicles should just be designed to carry a kind of cargo but not an explicit cargo 21:27:06 <glx> like liquid cargo 21:27:12 <frosch123> if soda ash is SASH, then sody lye should be SLYE 21:27:48 <frosch123> glx: V drew sprites for 100 cargos or so 21:28:35 <glx> even cargo not imagined by andy yet ? 21:28:37 <andythenorth> glx: interesting idea, you should circulate a newsletter ;) 21:28:42 <andythenorth> or maybe a forum post 21:29:17 <frosch123> [22:28] <glx> even cargo not imagined by andy yet ? <- V453000: up for the challenge? :p 21:29:36 <frosch123> predict what andy adds next 21:30:36 <frosch123> i go for "whey" 21:33:52 <andythenorth> interesting idea 21:33:57 <andythenorth> I hadn't considered that 21:33:59 <andythenorth> also spiders? 21:34:16 <andythenorth> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Little_Miss_Muffet 21:34:41 <andythenorth> what is whey? 21:35:16 <andythenorth> also, label for Chlorine? 21:35:39 <glx> _CL_ 21:36:46 <frosch123> andythenorth: whey would go into the chemical economy 21:36:52 <Eddi|zuHause> CLRN 21:37:02 <Eddi|zuHause> vowels are just decoration anyway 21:37:16 <andythenorth> frosch123 is it not better in the Cheese economy? :o 21:37:53 <frosch123> it's a side-product of cheese, and input to chemicals 21:37:55 <Eddi|zuHause> it's the greeks who started this vowel business, everyone else was happy with just writing down the consonants 21:38:28 <glx> yeah rmss was so easy 21:39:14 <Samu> sorry about that :( 21:44:01 <Samu> there is a bug with AddCargoDelivery, wish someone else than me could fix it 21:47:33 <andythenorth> ok I am running out of room for cargos now in this steel-punk economy :) 21:47:54 <andythenorth> historically, it has been harder to add cargos to FIRS than remove them :D 21:48:31 <andythenorth> does the game actually work if there's no goods? 21:52:14 *** Guest7947 is now known as Prof_Frink 21:52:22 *** oskari89 has quit IRC 21:52:45 *** Prof_Frink is now known as Guest7949 21:54:36 <Samu> here's the bug in action: https://imgur.com/fS3PyHp 21:55:15 <Samu> busybee tells me to send wood to Rinfingpool Bridge Sawmill 21:55:36 <Samu> but it's Getborough Market Sawmill that is taking it 21:55:48 <Samu> and yet it still counts towards the goal 21:55:49 <ST2> known: https://dev.openttdcoop.org/issues/7496 21:55:59 <Samu> the bug is not on busibee 21:56:03 <ST2> getting a solution, that's another story :S 21:56:05 <Samu> but on CargoMonitor 21:56:19 <Samu> the trunk, openttd itself 21:56:21 <andythenorth> electrical machines cargo, or goods? 21:56:28 <ST2> never explored to there ^^ 21:57:23 <Samu> the monitoring function is not mimicing the behaviour of cargo delivery 21:58:22 <frosch123> andythenorth: the game may work better without goods :p 21:58:41 <frosch123> you can replace goods with vehicles 21:59:06 <andythenorth> also I can't fit in the full salt -> chlorine + ethylene -> pvc compounds + copper -> wires -> electrical machines chain :P 21:59:49 <Samu> looks like im gonna fix it myself 21:59:56 <Samu> lel, while i'm at it, why not 22:00:02 * andythenorth wonders how houses break if there's no goods 22:00:04 <andythenorth> also food 22:01:24 <Eddi|zuHause> andythenorth: there's no reason why the game wouldn't work without goods, but you probably should add TE_GOODS to some cargo, because citybuilder scripts will probably require one 22:02:04 <Samu> that bug you reported st2, seems to be about industry index 22:02:20 <andythenorth> probably I should just try it 22:02:29 <Samu> the iron ore probably existed, then closed, and a new industry popups taking the index that used to belong to the iron ore 22:02:36 <ST2> most can be be adjusted - no TE_GOODS won't matter on CB's - since all cargo types can be used for it, no need for TownEffect 22:03:18 <Eddi|zuHause> ST2: i was using "citybuilder" as a generic term here, not for any specific script which may happen to be called citybuilder 22:03:43 <ST2> ok, then, I recall my words then ^^ 22:04:10 <Samu> it seems yet again related to cargomonitoring logs once again 22:04:30 <Samu> i must investigate how industry indexes are generated 22:05:12 <Eddi|zuHause> so, i played through one game of civ6 in this (long) weekend, in 30 hours 22:05:23 <andythenorth> hmm chlorine plant -> hydrochloric acid -> steel finishing 22:05:52 <ST2> Eddi|zuHause: I guess that both of us need to split on what a CityBuilder and a TownBuilder, since OpenTTD have different behaviours for both ^^ 22:07:49 <Eddi|zuHause> this would be the right time to start a new one, but i'm out of weekend 22:07:56 * andythenorth can't really fit a chlorine chain in this economy eh :P 22:08:09 <Eddi|zuHause> andythenorth: make a chlorine economy? :p 22:08:23 <andythenorth> I tested a chemicals economy, but meh 22:08:32 <andythenorth> lots of cargos in tank wagons 22:08:45 <Eddi|zuHause> what's wrong with that? 22:09:02 <andythenorth> limited cargo graphics 22:09:14 <andythenorth> I could revisit it 22:09:23 <andythenorth> probably just needs a twist 22:10:10 <Eddi|zuHause> a farming-focused economy probably could deal with lots of chemicals 22:10:41 <Samu> there can only be 65535 industries in the world, sounds small for a 4kx4k map 22:11:21 <andythenorth> that's the problem ass backwards samu :) 22:11:31 <andythenorth> 4kx4k map is stupid :) 22:12:01 <frosch123> andythenorth: do you produce chloring from salt? 22:12:06 <andythenorth> yes 22:12:12 <Samu> index from 0 to 65534, while 65535 is used for INVALID_INDUSTRY 22:13:30 <andythenorth> frosch123: I've pushed, waiting for bundles to update docs 22:16:04 <zerm> i seriously need to get better at making junctions 22:16:10 <zerm> like seriously 22:19:52 *** tokai|noir has quit IRC 22:20:09 *** tokai has joined #openttd 22:20:10 *** ChanServ sets mode: +v tokai 22:20:42 <Samu> actually 64000 22:21:27 <Samu> INSTANTIATE_POOL_METHODS(Industry) 22:21:36 <Samu> i have no idea how this works 22:21:53 <Samu> but this is the thing that attributes indexes to industries 22:22:12 <andythenorth> frosch123: http://bundles.openttdcoop.org/firs/push/LATEST/docs/html/economies.html#steeltown 22:22:25 <andythenorth> chlorine chain stops dead :) 22:22:29 <andythenorth> probably won't work 22:22:46 <andythenorth> aim was pvc -> wire, maybe vehicle parts 22:23:59 <andythenorth> and I wanted to get Pipe back in :P 22:25:53 <Samu> i don't think i can fix this myself, seems complicated enough for me 22:26:45 <Samu> it requires creating a temporary log, recording the amount is delivered, and to which industry 22:27:01 <Samu> so that the other function read from it 22:27:43 *** HerzogDeXtEr has joined #openttd 22:28:25 <Samu> i need DeliverGoodsToIndustry to communicate with AddCargoDelivery 22:28:39 <Samu> they're both called by DeliverGoods 22:28:50 <Samu> halp? 22:28:50 <frosch123> you only add the chemical plant for the liquids terminal? 22:29:10 <Samu> wait, let me post a link to the code 22:30:38 <Eddi|zuHause> chlorine->cleaning materials->supermarket? 22:30:50 <Samu> https://hg.openttd.org/trunk.hg/file/688d1dc200af/src/economy.cpp#l1072 22:30:54 <frosch123> you could add wood and paper 22:31:03 <Eddi|zuHause> (has nothing to do with steel, though) 22:31:12 <andythenorth> I think paper is kind of arctic 22:31:16 <frosch123> paper can be used instead of plastic in the metal workshop 22:31:16 <andythenorth> maybe chlorine doesn't fit 22:31:38 <Samu> line 1107 is DeliverGoodsToIndustry 22:32:03 <Samu> then later on, in the same function, at line 1130, it reports the data to the monitor 22:32:06 <andythenorth> unless I cut out zinc, copper 22:32:16 <frosch123> wood can also be processed into engsup, and it can go to assembly plant 22:32:27 <frosch123> and to glass works 22:33:42 <frosch123> i think adding wood/paper is a nicer option than adding oil 22:33:44 <andythenorth> you're pushing the 1910 trucks :) 22:33:54 <andythenorth> oil is always boring :P 22:34:03 <ST2> amen xD 22:34:19 <Samu> line 1092, my bad 22:34:33 <andythenorth> I'd need ethylene or acetylene to go with chlorine 22:34:38 <andythenorth> then PVC beads 22:34:51 <andythenorth> at least 2 more cargos, I have 1 slot left :P 22:34:57 <Samu> and line 1115, jesus i'm so drunk 22:35:40 <andythenorth> ok tomorrow is a new idea ;) 22:35:42 * andythenorth bed 22:35:59 <andythenorth> frosch123: wood + coal tar from coke plant = ensp :P 22:36:10 <andythenorth> but already both outputs are used 22:36:33 <andythenorth> constraints are good, but sometimes the 2 outputs limit at industries is a tough constraint 22:36:36 <frosch123> i thought of wood for mines 22:36:45 <frosch123> to build tunnel support 22:36:54 <andythenorth> yeah, that's in extreme 22:37:04 <andythenorth> wood + chemicals = pit props 22:37:26 <andythenorth> coke plant would provide exact chemicals :P 22:37:35 <andythenorth> but I need the sulphur for tyres 22:38:01 <andythenorth> maybe that's adjustable 22:38:04 <andythenorth> but bed 22:38:11 *** andythenorth has quit IRC 22:39:19 <Samu> hmm, there's a static SmallIndustryList _cargo_delivery_destinations; 22:39:38 <Samu> it keeps track of industries receiving cargos 22:39:49 <Samu> how to make use of this information for the monitor? 22:43:33 *** Stimrol has quit IRC 22:46:30 *** gelignite has quit IRC 22:49:50 *** Wormnest has quit IRC 22:53:14 *** Guest7949 is now known as Prof_Frink 22:53:45 *** Prof_Frink is now known as Guest7953 23:01:39 *** Arveen2 has joined #openttd 23:03:00 *** frosch123 has quit IRC 23:06:22 *** Arveen has quit IRC 23:13:07 *** ricus has quit IRC 23:40:03 *** Progman has quit IRC 23:44:12 <Samu> st2 u there? or glx or someone 23:45:13 <Samu> I got this line here 23:45:14 <Samu> static SmallIndustryList _cargo_delivery_destinations; 23:45:25 <Samu> it's on economy.cpp 23:45:41 <Samu> but i need cargomonitor.cpp to access _cargo_delivery_destinations 23:45:58 <Samu> i can't seem to do that 23:48:54 *** FLHerne has quit IRC 23:54:15 *** Guest7953 is now known as Prof_Frink 23:54:56 *** Prof_Frink is now known as Guest7957