Log for #openttd on 22nd December 2017:
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10:37:59  <longtomjr> Hello! I have been looking at GRFs and seen that some people does not use NML (at least not that I can see) to create GRFs and instead use python. (As an example, SQUID, FIRS etc.)
10:42:10  <longtomjr> Is there any help/docs available to help with the python approach, or should I just use figure it out reading source? If the latter, any pointers? Should I look at SQUID, or go straight to NML itself?
10:44:01  <Alkel_U3> If I understand right they use Python to generate NML where suitable, not really directly using python to write newgrfs
10:47:17  <longtomjr> Ah ok, thanks for the reply, is there any reason for doing it that way around?
10:49:34  <Alkel_U3> I guess getting rid of more repetition in bigger projects and having control of more elements from more concentrated piece of code but you'd best ask someone native to those projects you mentioned
10:53:50  <longtomjr> Thanks again. How would I go about contacting andythenorth for example? Forums? Is there a way to do it on ottdcoop?
10:56:53  <__ln__> @seen andythenorth
10:56:53  <DorpsGek> __ln__: andythenorth was last seen in #openttd 13 hours, 18 minutes, and 22 seconds ago: <andythenorth> too dark?
10:58:07  <longtomjr> ty __ln__ , Will hang around here :)
10:58:07  <Alkel_U3> he'll appear here, eventualy
10:58:17  <longtomjr> Thanks guys
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12:15:34  <longtomjr> Does anyone here have a small major mode for NML in emacs? (Just wanna know if I should write my own, or if there is one available)
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12:32:45  <m3henry> Man, trying to refactor anything to do with SmallVector seems to confuse the hell out of KDevelop
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12:48:28  <Alberth> IDEs are pretty stupid :p
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13:36:56  <m3henry> It is a little understandable, the inheritance hierachy doesn't make it easy
13:38:35  <m3henry> I'd like to take SmallVector::Begin() and ::End() and make them begin() and end() so that one can do `for (auto& val : vec) {...}`
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13:51:34  <Alberth> I wonder if composition would be better
13:51:48  <Alberth> or even a begin() and end() template function
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13:53:35  <RafiX> hello
13:53:42  <Alberth> hola
13:54:33  <RafiX> sup
13:57:40  <m3henry> composition would certainly better for readability
13:57:44  <m3henry> be*
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14:51:18  <m3henry> /
14:51:23  <RafiX> \
14:51:39  <m3henry> "\/n"
14:52:18  <RafiX> •
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15:10:05  <Sacro> \o/
15:10:22  <RafiX> o/
15:10:24  <RafiX> \o
15:10:27  <RafiX> o/
15:10:30  <RafiX> swimming
15:34:43  <Borg> daaa fuck :D
15:34:48  <Borg> 2 oil rigs closed in same time ;D
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17:28:41  <andythenorth> hi
17:29:00  <Alberth> o/
17:35:55  <longtomjr> Hey andythenorth. I seen that your newGRFs are written in python, I was wondering what the purpose of that is, and if there is any resources for making newGRF's with python.
17:36:56  <andythenorth> there is a tutorial in forums
17:37:03  <andythenorth> but it's not how I actually work
17:37:32  <longtomjr> mmm? Are you generating NML code with python?
17:38:08  <andythenorth>
17:38:22  <andythenorth> is the beginners guide I wrote
17:38:33  <andythenorth> I generated docs, sprites and NML with python
17:39:24  <longtomjr> wow cool. Thanks for the link :)
17:39:55  <Borg> anyone here does loco transfers on 8 tiles distance? ;)
17:39:57  <Borg> or its just me
17:40:02  <andythenorth> longtomjr:
17:40:22  <andythenorth> or
17:40:42  <longtomjr> Have been cloning them and looking already, thanks a lot for the help though :)
17:40:50  <longtomjr> Have been looking at SQUID too.
17:41:15  <frosch123> longtomjr: <- also, that page is generated from the same source
17:41:22  <frosch123> so they documentation always fits the grf
17:41:35  <longtomjr> Nice thanks for chiming in frosch123
17:41:41  <andythenorth> it's much better having the vehicles or industries as objects in code
17:41:58  <longtomjr> do you use Sphinx for the docs?
17:42:05  <andythenorth> there's a sort of irony, that NML also parses the declarations, and builds objects in code :P
17:42:10  <andythenorth> no I wrote my own templates
17:42:17  <longtomjr> ah ok
17:42:33  <andythenorth> python objects -> NML -> python objects -> grf
17:42:42  <andythenorth> it's a really silly interface in retrospect :P
17:42:53  <longtomjr> What dev enviroment do you use? Do you have some syntax higlighting for vim (or emacs)?
17:43:05  <andythenorth> I have an editor on OS X that understands python
17:43:07  <Borg> andythenorth: holy necro.. long path... no misgenerations? :)
17:43:19  <longtomjr> I meant for NML
17:43:34  <andythenorth> my editor doesn't understand nml :(
17:43:43  <andythenorth> I could write a syntax plugin for it, but meh
17:43:56  <andythenorth> I don't write much nml, I try to avoid it :)
17:43:57  <longtomjr> ah ok, I have the same issue, currently looking to write a major-mode in emacs for it
17:44:14  <andythenorth> I have to read the docs every time I want to write nml
17:45:14  <longtomjr> Since NML is written in python, would it not make sense to create something that interfaces through the nml source/compiler directly without needing the generation of NML
17:45:28  <frosch123> longtomjr: there are nml syntax files for kate and geany
17:45:33  <frosch123> maybe you can base your stuff on that
17:46:19  <longtomjr> The reason I ask is because I am much more comfortable with python and have been using it for years, so that is why I wanted to use python for this too, since I love working in it.
17:48:02  <longtomjr> @frosch123, thanks. I am using the files available, but emacs is a wierd beast when it comes to implementations like this. Still, even though it is different, it is a hell of a lot better than working in TMLanguage files in xml
17:48:57  <longtomjr> It is just difficult for me since I only started using emacs this year, but it sounds like a fin challenge, and I get to learn some list while I am at it
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17:56:12  <andythenorth> Eddi|zuHause imported some of the nml packages for CETS, and wrote directly with them, I think
17:56:33  <andythenorth> doing that and assembling the tree is beyond my programming skills
17:57:27  <Alberth> makes use of the code in other projects also complicated
17:57:44  <Alberth> not many people have that deep knowledge of python and nml internals
17:58:17  <Alberth> while eg FIRS source is being used in several other projects, precisely because it's nml text
18:01:46  <Borg> as we speak.. but newgrf
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18:01:57  <Borg> anyone can explain me how to catch industry production callback?
18:02:12  <Borg> its Action 2 industry... but.. I cant figure out how its being catched...
18:02:16  <Borg> there is no such callback..
18:02:27  <Eddi|zuHause> andythenorth: i think i wanted to try something like that, but it never went very far
18:02:58  <Borg> or I can just use action 3 to bind it.. and engine is smart enough to find it?
18:03:14  <andythenorth> Borg: you writing nfo or nml?
18:03:19  <Borg> from description they said I need to check CB 1C variable..
18:03:27  <Borg> but they didnt say what value..
18:03:55  <andythenorth> I can't remember how to do the production CB
18:03:56  <Eddi|zuHause> Borg: variable 1C stores the callback number
18:04:10  <Borg> erm... NFO is that binary thingie?
18:04:23  <Alberth> hexadecimal, but yes
18:04:24  <Borg> Eddi|zuHause: yeah.. but what value... its not state anywhere..
18:04:27  <Eddi|zuHause> so you check 1C for whatever number the production callback. but nml does that automatically
18:05:05  <Eddi|zuHause> iirc nml has "produce"-blocks
18:05:21  <Borg> but I dont use NML. I could not wrap myself around it..
18:05:21  <Alberth>   produce_* entries (2nd and 3rd)
18:06:38  <Borg> andythenorth: yeah.. but what are they values
18:06:51  <Borg> I even start digging OpenTTD source.. and it doent look like callback at all :(
18:06:57  <Borg> but!
18:07:09  <Eddi|zuHause> <-- the callback number is the number in () at the end of the title
18:07:11  <Borg>
18:07:35  <andythenorth> try an action 3 -> action 2
18:07:43  <andythenorth> there is only one action 2 for industries
18:07:47  <Borg> yeah..
18:07:47  <andythenorth> the production cb
18:07:54  <Borg> hmm
18:07:58  <andythenorth> afaik, action 2 always must be chained in action 3
18:08:05  <andythenorth> I could look up *really* old FIRS code
18:08:15  <frosch123> the "production callback" is no "callback"
18:08:19  <frosch123> it has no callback id
18:08:24  <frosch123> it's the default thing
18:08:36  <Borg> so I can have multiple action 3 binding action 2?
18:08:45  <Borg> currently I have some callbacks in use
18:09:34  * andythenorth looking in old FIRS code
18:09:45  <Eddi|zuHause> yes, you can reuse an action2 in multiple action3
18:09:56  <Borg> Eddi|zuHause: but other way around?
18:10:09  <Borg> or wait!
18:10:10  <Eddi|zuHause> there is no other way around
18:10:14  <Borg> there is no colission after all :)
18:10:20  <Borg> so.. it might work.. thx
18:10:36  <Borg> because production callbacks are only for primary industries
18:10:50  <andythenorth>
18:10:50  <Borg> and secondary one.. use that action 2
18:10:55  <Eddi|zuHause> you have exactly one action3 per industry
18:11:21  <Borg> okey, thx :)
18:11:28  <andythenorth> C1 in my example chains to the production cb
18:12:51  * andythenorth can still read NFO :P
18:12:58  <andythenorth> after about 5 years of not touching it
18:13:03  <Eddi|zuHause> is it like riding a bike?
18:13:49  <Borg> or wait...
18:13:57  <Borg> I was mistaken.. there is collision!
18:14:28  <Borg> but.. okey :) I will do exacly as you
18:14:36  <Borg> default
18:15:25  <Borg> andythenorth: do you have any additional checks in C1 action2 ?
18:15:32  <Borg> or its directly a production callback?
18:16:36  <andythenorth> it runs through some varaction 2 storing to registers
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18:17:18  <andythenorth> here
18:17:40  <Wolf01> Evenink
18:17:55  <Wolf01> (I didn't use this one for a long time)
18:18:51  <Eddi|zuHause> Oddink
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18:45:47  <DorpsGek> Commit by translators :: r27947 trunk/src/lang/spanish_MX.txt (2017-12-22 19:45:39 +0100 )
18:45:48  <DorpsGek> -Update from Eints:
18:45:49  <DorpsGek> spanish (mexican): 1 change by Absay
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20:03:11  <Borg> RafiX: still have problems joining servers?
20:03:20  <Borg> im looking for players ;)
20:03:30  <RafiX> yea
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20:03:34  <RafiX> sadly
20:03:55  <Borg> hmmmm
20:04:02  <Borg> crap
20:04:21  <RafiX> ikr
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20:19:44  <andythenorth> anyone played new Steeltown?
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20:21:11  <Borg> argh...
20:21:19  <Borg> I think I will set train maintenance interval to 540 days
20:21:28  <Borg> 270 and they sit too much in depots
20:21:29  <Borg> ;)
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20:58:00  <Alberth> andy, started somewhat
20:58:17  <Alberth> seems ok, chemicals is new
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21:43:54  * andythenorth considering adding Tyres cargo
21:44:09  <andythenorth>
21:44:17  <andythenorth> primarily for the cargo graphics at station
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22:40:21  <Wolf01> 'night
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