Log for #openttd on 26th December 2017:
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00:19:33  <supermop> Wolf01: finished
00:19:43  <Wolf01> :)
00:20:11  <supermop> would have been neat if we had two instruction books to split up the modules
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00:21:14  <supermop> now I want to dig out the old bins in my parents basement and make my own modules
00:21:37  <supermop> also: we were somehow shorted two 1x1 tan bricks
00:22:03  <supermop> but were able to find two 25+ year old ones in the basement that had yellowed enough to match
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00:37:52  <Wolf01> You can get them for free on the lego customer service, just tell them they were missing on the box, you might have to tell them the production code on the platic bags
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01:17:15  <Wolf01> 'night
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02:14:10  <supermop> i think we threw the bags away already
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08:19:55  <andythenorth> o/
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10:45:47  <Wolf01> o/
10:46:45  <Wolf01> ooooh wtf, they hijacket the NRT thread again :(
10:46:51  <Wolf01> *hijacked
10:47:20  <Eddi|zuHause> get a moderator to split it off?
10:48:58  <Wolf01> Nah, they are trying to cram into NRT something which doesn't belong to it
11:02:44  <andythenorth> [shrug]
11:02:48  <andythenorth> forums are gonna forum
11:03:30  <RafiX> hello
11:04:03  <andythenorth> hi RafiX
11:04:08  <RafiX> how are you?
11:05:07  <Wolf01> Ok, I lost my challenge even today... I already started F
11:05:26  <andythenorth> I haven't played tanks for a couple of days
11:05:52  <andythenorth> I got to 'above average' and got bored
11:05:57  <Wolf01> I played like 17 hours in 2 days
11:06:02  <Eddi|zuHause> i think i win that F  challenge
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11:32:57  <andythenorth> Makefiles or Tanks?
11:33:12  <Wolf01> Lego
11:33:40  <andythenorth> done Lego
11:33:45  <andythenorth> built the tow truck
11:34:01  <Wolf01> Modify it
11:34:02  <andythenorth> it has. a wolf on it
11:34:05  <andythenorth> the rest is meh
11:34:30  <Wolf01> I'll put tracks in place of the rear wheels
11:34:41  <andythenorth> I might scrap it
11:34:46  <andythenorth> and use the wheels to rebuild this
11:38:10  <Wolf01> I'll make it like the one of the rescuers:
11:38:54  <Wolf01> The fastrac is nice too, I wanted to use the second claas to build one
11:43:11  <andythenorth> that Bushwacker basically is the tow truck eh
11:43:18  <Wolf01> Yes
11:44:28  <Wolf01> Ha! Being lazy unlocked another achievemente in F
11:49:23  <andythenorth> such Makefiles
11:49:30  <andythenorth> I have to maintain 4, all subtly different :P
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12:30:29  <Wolf01> Make a python script which creates the makefiles
12:32:30  <andythenorth> that is a good idea
12:32:36  <andythenorth> actually
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13:32:10  <Gja> hi
13:33:02  <andythenorth> ach
13:33:11  <andythenorth> branched newgrfs :(
13:34:40  <andythenorth> I've got a branched Road Hog with NRT support
13:34:48  <andythenorth> and of course, other changes that should be in default :x
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13:53:12  <Eddi|zuHause> well, put them in default then
13:55:18  <andythenorth> that means I have to learn mercurial properly
13:55:31  <andythenorth> can't just cherrypick them in :P
13:56:24  <Eddi|zuHause> tortoisehg has a "transplant" feature, where you can pick revisions of one branch and put them in another
13:56:38  <Eddi|zuHause> i'm sure that command line has that as well
13:56:55  <andythenorth> seems hg 'graft' is a more modern version of transplant
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13:57:53  <andythenorth> might be easier to just merge branches
13:57:57  <andythenorth> then delete the NRT stuff from Hog
13:58:20  <Eddi|zuHause> or merge NRT into trunk, and then put the NRT stuff in default?
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13:59:51  <andythenorth> NRT is dead
14:00:17  <andythenorth> I'm trying to diff branches to find out what I need to remove
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14:28:53  <LordAro> put it in trunk, and decide at 1.8 branch point if it's stable enough to keep?
14:32:38  <andythenorth> no gain really
14:32:54  <andythenorth> :)
14:34:42  <Rubidium> shouldn't it then be merged before the christmas eve beta release?
14:35:31  <frosch123> the issues with it are known for 10 months
14:36:25  <frosch123> just use unofficial versions if you want something which is 75% unused, and 25% exploited to do stuff which was not considered
14:42:29  <andythenorth> there is an NRT binary which is so close to 'official' that it's semantics to say it's not  :P
14:42:56  <andythenorth> I see no gain in shipping a feature in trunk nightlies which will have to be deleted later
14:47:58  <LordAro> it'll get used and bugs/deficiencies will be found?
14:48:20  <frosch123> they are already found
14:52:14  <Eddi|zuHause> so start from scratch or what is the plan?
14:52:29  <frosch123> yes
14:52:43  <andythenorth> that wasn't XOR
14:52:44  <frosch123> well, my plan
14:52:49  <frosch123> don't know other plans
14:53:02  <andythenorth> I have no plans :)
14:53:05  <frosch123> from my pov the spec is broken, so i wrote a new one
14:53:17  <andythenorth> BGT opens up a whole interesting can of worms
14:53:20  <andythenorth> in a good way
14:53:29  <andythenorth> but I'm scared of the UI part. :P
14:53:35  <andythenorth> it might suck
14:55:21  <andythenorth> hmm
14:55:30  <andythenorth> commented 2 sections of NRT Hog
14:55:33  <andythenorth> seems to work
15:00:39  <andythenorth> slow jenkins is slow
15:01:15  <frosch123> is it?
15:01:32  <andythenorth> seems to be
15:01:50  <andythenorth> or it stopped updating the progress gif
15:01:51  <andythenorth> yeah
15:02:12  <andythenorth> ok so I've placated angry Jenkins now :)
15:03:05  <andythenorth> usual amount of yak shaving :D
15:03:34  <frosch123> learn knitting?
15:04:44  <frosch123> hmm, i guess spinning comes first
15:06:04  <andythenorth> I think I'll update Sam instead ;)
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15:06:11  <andythenorth> while it's in my head
15:07:31  <andythenorth> so the vehicle part of NRT still looks fine to me :P
15:07:40  <andythenorth> it's the tile part that was a mess IMHO
15:12:19  <andythenorth> frosch123: I have a 33% sensible idea around 'tile types'
15:12:19  <andythenorth> applicable to routes, stations, objects
15:12:45  <frosch123> write it down :)
15:14:34  <andythenorth> I did
15:14:34  <andythenorth> as much as it's complete :P
15:14:34  <andythenorth> I'll try a longer version
15:14:34  <andythenorth> not sure what problem it's solving yet
15:14:34  <andythenorth> I think it's just BGT again
15:25:33  <andythenorth>
15:25:53  <andythenorth> it's not a cohesive idea yet
15:26:30  <andythenorth> idea is that player can change 'surface' on any relevant tile they own, without having to rebuild routes, objects etc on that tile
15:30:05  <andythenorth> most of new stations then disappears
15:30:08  <andythenorth> and most of NRT
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15:31:39  <andythenorth> old new stations would have to die
15:31:43  <andythenorth> but the spec is weird anyway
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15:32:17  <Borg> hmm playing w/ stockpiling industries. is so much fun :)
15:34:03  <andythenorth> frosch123: ^^^^ stuff
15:39:01  <frosch123> sounds about right
15:44:57  <andythenorth> the initial mockup UI in BGT seems weird to me
15:45:06  <andythenorth> I want to be able to pick any tile I own and change the ground
15:45:24  <andythenorth>  'want' is a strong word there, it's not much needed
15:45:34  <andythenorth> but as a solution to most of stations and roads :P
15:45:37  <andythenorth> it's not bad
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16:09:31  <Rubidium> isn't it just better to use p1sim?
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16:26:05  <frosch123> Rubidium: V was too busy to attend the machinsky talk
16:26:22  <frosch123> so, we have no intelligence report on that
16:31:40  <andythenorth> how do I get a grfid for incompatible checks?
16:31:47  <andythenorth> bananas reports 52530101
16:32:06  <andythenorth> also 4D635069
16:32:24  <frosch123> "also"?
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16:32:39  <frosch123> i think ottd also displays it in-game
16:38:33  <andythenorth> 2 different grfs :)
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16:42:59  <andythenorth> the in-game version matches the bananas version
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16:43:30  <andythenorth> oh looks like I got bored of this and fixed it in FIRS
16:43:38  <andythenorth> seems I can use literal or dword
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16:59:05  <andythenorth> ho ho ho
16:59:20  <andythenorth> so FIRS 3 beta is done
16:59:34  <andythenorth> only thing left to do is finish this 'get started' page
16:59:38  <andythenorth> and wait for bug reports
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17:05:06  <frosch123> i thought the page was already reworked
17:05:08  <frosch123> what's left?
17:05:32  <andythenorth> "This is to avoid conflicts that can cause FIRS to NOT WORK RIGHT. You'll see a message if this happens."
17:05:52  <andythenorth> also someone new here reported that the page was totally confusing
17:06:00  <andythenorth> but I didn't write down what they said :P
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17:12:55  <Eddi|zuHause> <andythenorth> "This is to avoid conflicts that can cause FIRS to NOT WORK RIGHT. You'll see a message if this happens." <-- this is totally useless information to anyone that is not a developer
17:13:42  <andythenorth> yes
17:22:54  <andythenorth> Eddi|zuHause: better?
17:23:50  <Eddi|zuHause> a bit
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17:29:31  <Samu> Improved Oil Rig Layout  
17:29:42  <Samu> conflicts with my newgrf :)
17:30:15  <Samu> I made it into a list!
17:31:15  <andythenorth> fame
17:31:25  <andythenorth> ok maybe this page is done for now
17:31:25  <andythenorth>
17:31:30  <andythenorth> I'm not really happy with it
17:33:09  <andythenorth> not convinced Apple are doing much better these days
17:33:20  <frosch123> add a "if you do not know which vehicle sets to use, use steel pony, squid and street boar"
17:33:58  <frosch123> newbies like to get vendor locked
17:34:15  <Samu> how's that it conflicts? i only added water checks to oil rigs :(
17:34:21  <Samu> meh, newgrfs...
17:35:55  <andythenorth> Samu: dunno, but it was likely reported in forum
17:36:11  <Rubidium> Samu: think what happens when I'd be able to call myself Samu on this IRC channel while you're connected as well
17:36:47  <Samu> what?
17:37:09  <andythenorth>
17:37:43  <andythenorth>
17:38:02  <andythenorth> I don't test what's incompatible, I just add the check and test that FIRS disables itself :)
17:38:11  <Rubidium> or am I, as usually, missing some external reference somewhere? I'm only assuming that Improved Oil Rig Layout conflicts with your NewGRF because it has the same GRFID as your NewGRF
17:39:32  <andythenorth> Rubidium: there is a bit of missing context :)
17:39:39  <andythenorth> samu made IORL
17:39:45  <andythenorth> and it's incompatible with FIRS
17:40:41  <Samu> wasn't it OIL_
17:40:59  <Samu>
17:41:03  <Samu> there's the newgrf
17:42:21  <Samu> i dont have anything refering IORL at all, not even OIL_
17:42:35  <andythenorth> Improved Oil Rig Layout
17:42:41  <andythenorth> IORL
17:42:57  <Samu> IORL is bauxite?
17:43:05  <Samu> oh, nvm
17:43:12  <andythenorth> IIAA
17:43:19  <andythenorth> IORL Is An Acronym
17:43:25  <andythenorth> :P
17:43:42  <Samu> why does my oil rig produce bauxite? :(
17:44:25  <Samu> ppl always find ways to break stuff
17:44:30  <andythenorth> it relies on cargo having a specific ID
17:44:36  <andythenorth> instead of using the cargo label
17:44:55  <andythenorth> FIRS bauxite uses the ID you're expecting oil to have
17:45:22  <andythenorth> at least in that economy :P
17:47:03  <andythenorth> frosch123: do I explicitly allow a translator into eints via redmine?
17:47:06  <andythenorth> or is there magix?
17:47:16  <andythenorth> I assume I just add them to relevant group
17:47:27  <frosch123> groups are handled globally
17:47:30  <frosch123> not per project
17:47:46  <frosch123> <- give them that link
17:48:01  <andythenorth> I was going to add them in the user admin
17:48:31  <frosch123> well, yes, click the user, add them to the group
17:48:33  <frosch123> that's all
17:49:55  <andythenorth> I am reading eints manual currently
17:50:06  <frosch123> it has nothing to do with eints
17:51:26  <andythenorth> is it documented anywhere?
17:51:42  <frosch123> 1. click user, 2. select groups tab, 3 click group checkbox 4. click apply
17:52:18  <frosch123> <- there is that general page
17:52:33  <andythenorth> that will do
17:52:49  <andythenorth> I know how to do it in redmine, I just wasn't sure what's right :P
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18:45:47  <DorpsGek> Commit by translators :: r27951 trunk/src/lang/spanish_MX.txt (2017-12-26 19:45:39 +0100 )
18:45:48  <DorpsGek> -Update from Eints:
18:45:49  <DorpsGek> spanish (mexican): 6 changes by Absay
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19:16:10  <andythenorth> frosch123: so my idea looks like it overlaps with Groundtype in
19:16:19  <andythenorth> except I made it more generalised
19:16:27  <andythenorth> dunno if I'm being stupid
19:17:33  <frosch123> yes, there are like 3 things: tiles with infrastructure (stations, road, rail), tiles with cargo piles (stations) and non-gameplay stuff (objects)
19:18:02  <frosch123> currently some things are provided by newobjects, newstations, nrt and bgt
19:18:10  <frosch123> but there is no 1:1 mapping between them
19:18:46  <frosch123> possibly there is a 4th type: non-player constructed, like landscape
19:19:25  <frosch123> like the ridiculous amount of landscape textures f gained meanwhile
19:19:36  <frosch123> there used to be "just grass"
19:21:26  <andythenorth> I left industries out, because that's mostly solved
19:21:45  <andythenorth> I think the interesting thing is to separate ground from structures
19:21:59  <andythenorth> 'structures' includes buildings, routes, cargo
19:22:21  <andythenorth> still not sure exactly what problem is solved, but it seems interesting
19:28:12  <frosch123> i think it's about visual consistency
19:28:23  <frosch123> you want stations and roads and industries to fit
19:28:28  <frosch123> like chips roads
19:29:04  <andythenorth> newgrfs suggest so :)
19:29:22  <andythenorth> dunno about registering tiles into a global pool though
19:29:25  <andythenorth> which is one of my ideas
19:29:32  <andythenorth> cross-grf resources :P
19:49:12  <andythenorth> really?
19:49:14  <andythenorth> can't repro
20:13:13  <LordAro> probably out of catchment
20:13:17  <LordAro> ask for screenshots
20:14:08  <frosch123> or savegame
20:14:16  <frosch123> but probably just link the manual and close
20:15:06  <andythenorth> probably covers some, but not enough houses
20:15:08  <andythenorth> so no acceptance
20:15:18  <andythenorth> so cargodist won't establish an A-B link
20:15:22  <andythenorth> I can repro that
20:18:50  <andythenorth> closed
20:19:30  <andythenorth> <- ignore them?
20:21:16  <LordAro> "just don't do the subsidy then"
20:23:17  <andythenorth> suggested GS
20:23:57  <andythenorth> I didn't get the count below 300 :P
20:43:09  <andythenorth> frosch123: is there enough map to store some index into groundtypes? o_O
20:43:55  <frosch123> if it is useful, there is always enough map
20:44:31  <andythenorth> maybe I should survey station and object sets
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20:44:43  <andythenorth> quite possibly I am only considering my case with FIRS / CHIPS etc
20:44:59  <frosch123> "not enough map" is just an easy excuse to deny teenager's "i want everything" request
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20:46:05  <andythenorth> :)
20:51:01  <Eddi|zuHause> memory is (nearly) infinite, but not when you treat it that way
20:51:40  <frosch123> compare 9mb of a 1kx1k map with 2gb of sprite cache
20:51:58  <Thedarkb> As someone with a 256mb machine.......
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20:52:29  <andythenorth> not sure where groundtypes would originate
20:52:34  <andythenorth> some new grf class?
20:52:49  <frosch123> when talking about map sizes you are at best talking about cache optimisation
20:52:59  <frosch123> and afaik noone ever optimised ottd on that level
20:53:09  <frosch123> except for map alignment
20:53:31  <andythenorth> TerrainTypes :P
20:54:46  <andythenorth> I have often wanted to change ground type in CHIPS recently
20:54:58  <andythenorth> the building tiles have a fixed style of ground sprite
20:55:14  <andythenorth> and duplicating them just for ground is overkill
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20:57:02  <andythenorth> CHIPS New Objects duplicates a lot for groundtype :P
20:57:06  <andythenorth> I didn't make that :)
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22:34:49  <Wolf01> 'night
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