Log for #openttd on 12th January 2018:
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07:28:34  <andythenorth> V453000: yo
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09:02:46  <Samu> hello
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13:27:39  <Samu> LuDiAI is unexpectedly strong in 4096x4096
13:30:38  <Arveen> do people actually play 4k maps?
13:30:57  <__ln__> does an AI count as people?
13:33:03  <Arveen> wouldn't say so
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14:20:24  <Samu> :)
14:37:46  <Samu> 3272x2200 - 4027x3174
14:38:28  <Samu> @calc 4027-3272+3174-2200
14:38:28  <DorpsGek> Samu: 1729
14:40:45  <Samu> 2426x1842 - 2069x2145
14:41:00  <Samu> @calc 2426-2069+2145-1842
14:41:00  <DorpsGek> Samu: 660
14:43:17  <Samu> 3037x2846 - 3349x2522
14:43:30  <Samu> @calc 3349-3037+2846-2522
14:43:30  <DorpsGek> Samu: 636
14:43:58  <Samu> ok
14:44:43  <Samu> ludiai aircraft distance is nearly 3 times the others
14:45:35  <Samu> 160 days travelling
14:45:39  <Samu> crazy
14:49:35  <supermop_work> yo
14:50:50  <Samu> hi
14:57:06  <Samu> trAIns is upgrading from railway to electrified railway
14:57:11  <Samu> very interesting
14:59:10  <LordAro> iirc it's the only AI to be able to do that
14:59:50  <Samu> nah, nocab did it too, simpleai too
14:59:55  <Samu> nonocab
14:59:57  <Samu> wormai
15:00:05  <Samu> real problem will be later on, to monorail
15:00:18  <Samu> or maglev
15:00:29  <Samu> trAIns is just special
15:00:34  <Samu> he does it piece by piece
15:00:43  <Samu> the others seem to do it in 1 go
15:01:47  <Samu> i'm not sure what AdmiralAI did, but he got electrified railways too
15:01:55  <Samu> but some parts are still railway
15:02:00  <LordAro> my information could well be out of date :p
15:04:04  <Samu> 516 railway pieces, 16,881 electrified railway pieces
15:04:20  <Samu> I wonder why he kept some
15:04:24  <Samu> must investigate
15:07:28  <supermop_work> Are AIs gendered?
15:09:50  <LordAro> i'd imagine about the same as ships and cars and other vehicles
15:12:08  <Samu> :)
15:12:10  <Samu> it
15:12:37  <Samu> there are many unfinished rail routes by AdmiralAI
15:13:17  <Samu> no clean up
15:13:19  <Samu> :(
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15:22:51  <supermop_work> well only ships coventionally have gender in english grammar, and that seems to be mostly tradition. pretty sure other vehicles do not, regardless of what a particularly affectionate owner may think
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16:44:51  <Samu> hi
16:48:20  <Samu> i'm bored
16:48:44  <Samu> gonna make screenshots I guess
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16:53:46  <Samu> a 512x512 map isn't really 512x512, it's 510x510
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16:54:47  <Samu> @calc 510/2
16:54:47  <DorpsGek> Samu: 255
16:54:51  <Samu> hmm :)
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16:56:19  <Alberth> you missed the two invisible rows and columns :)
16:56:55  <Alberth> or rather 1 invisble row and column, as top-north is (0, 0)
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16:58:52  <Samu> top north is 1,1
16:59:02  <Samu> bottom south is 510,510
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17:00:28  <Alberth> ah, then there is an invisible row at all edges
17:02:57  <Samu> first to £1000M
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17:16:44  <Samu> is this too big for the forum ? :(
17:16:59  <Samu> wanted to show as much as possible with 1 ss
17:21:20  <Alberth> works for PC, mobile is probably horrible
17:21:59  <Alberth> did you consider to make the code block a text file attachment, and/or have less precise numbers?
17:22:39  <Alberth> I mean, the bottom 6 digits aren't much interesting if the amount of money is in the 9-10 digits
17:23:30  <Samu> i was talking about the screenshot :(
17:23:48  <Alberth> yeah, me too
17:24:12  <Alberth> there is some info that isn't very relevant, like the vehicles at the left
17:25:05  <Alberth> and there is black space around the map, so the various windows could have been moved closer to the map, and make the image smaller
17:25:39  <Alberth> £5,765,225/ £8,380,410  <-- 5,8M / 8,4M  says just as much
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17:37:00  <Samu> resolution = 1027,597
17:37:04  <Samu> that magic number
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17:41:25  <Samu> this should be enough
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18:05:38  <Alberth> that would work
18:05:39  <Alberth> hola
18:08:18  <frosch123> moi
18:10:52  <Borg> getto hubs ftw! ;)
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18:17:10  <Samu> useless screenshot, [img][/img]
18:17:14  <Samu> but whatever
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18:20:22  <Alberth> :D
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18:21:54  <Samu> almost there, 4 more screenshots...
18:27:17  <Samu> done
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18:41:10  <Samu> now that I posted the screenshots, I'm bored again
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18:49:56  <Samu> I need to do better than just a screeshot
18:50:05  <Samu> maybe a gif
18:50:39  <Samu> stack multiple screenshots in a gif to show map usage progress
18:51:39  <Samu> need a gif editor, a simple one
18:51:55  <Samu> virtualdub might work, if I still have it
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18:53:56  <supermop_work> the north
18:54:56  <Samu> ~andy, the no
18:56:28  <Samu> is there a way to "screenshot" the minimap in openttd?
18:58:43  <Samu> only interested in the minimap part
18:58:53  <Samu> wouldn't want to screenshot the entire openttd window :(
18:59:56  <andythenorth> biab
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19:03:58  <Alberth> find an application that can take  a screen shot of some section of the screen?
19:09:18  <Samu> i have an idea
19:09:31  <Samu> can openttd screenshot monthly?
19:09:39  <Samu> or yearly, or so
19:09:45  <Samu> auto-screenshot
19:10:49  <Samu> I would collect all those screenshots, load them in virtualdub and force it to create a .gif
19:11:07  <Samu> hopefully openttd numbers them correctly for virtual dub
19:11:14  <Samu> wishful thinking
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19:14:04  <Samu> virtual dub would let me crop that "pseudo-video", I could cut the uninteresting parts out
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19:27:47  <Cubey> You could do that pretty easily with ffmpeg
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19:41:12  <andythenorth> anyone verified this is legit? o_O
19:41:16  <andythenorth> looks plausible tbh
19:42:55  <frosch123> i doubt it's exponentially
19:43:01  <frosch123> at worst quadratic
19:47:52  <blathijs> Sounds like it might be by design too, linear growth is probably boring. And bigger towns also generate more movement per resident, I'd expect, since people are more used to moving around.
19:49:25  <frosch123> well, it's like that in ottd 0.1, so most likely original ttd behaviour
19:49:43  <frosch123> we could add a setting :)
19:50:02  <frosch123> i think there were various patches which add settings for town production reduction
19:52:41  <andythenorth> towns do seem to over-produce above 1k or so
19:53:29  <frosch123> it depends on the house newgrf :)
19:53:41  <frosch123> it's quadratic on a per-house base
19:53:56  <frosch123> many small houses produce less than few big houses with same population
19:54:18  <frosch123> people want to escape the skycrapers
20:01:43  <Borg> ;)
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20:26:31  <Samu> interesting
20:27:42  <Samu> so, passengers are "produced"
20:27:45  <Samu> :p
20:28:38  <andythenorth> yes
20:30:24  <Samu> it doesn't keep track of each individual passenger
20:30:44  <andythenorth> when does JGR need its own subforum? o_O
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20:43:54  <Alberth> it does keep track, for as long as they are traveling
20:44:43  <Alberth> I wondered about a FIRS economy with GaryG graphics today :)
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20:45:02  <Alberth> so probably Australian :D
20:50:07  <andythenorth> considered Australia
20:50:09  <andythenorth> but nah
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21:08:51  <Alberth> fair enough
21:08:54  <Alberth> good night
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21:12:01  <Rybeast> Hey - I was wondering if I could get some help, please?
21:12:34  <ST2> don't ask to ask... just ask (it's on the topic ^^)
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21:15:47  <Rybeast> My wifi cut out, sorry.
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21:16:28  <Rybeast> I've forgotten my username - I tried to request a password reset hoping it would email it out to me, but apparently I need my username to do that... Which defeats the object!
21:17:30  <Rybeast> I've also gotten OpenTTD on my Mac. However, the graphics still seem to be the very basic ones - I've seen some YouTube videos whereby they installed the graphics as part of the installation process, but there doesn't seem to be an option to install on the Mac zip files
21:19:33  <LordAro> define "very basic"
21:20:24  <LordAro> you can download extra content from the main menu, including other base sets
21:20:36  <peter1138> The only graphics you need are the original TTD graphics.
21:20:51  <Rybeast> like, the very basic TTD graphics. I don't know what they are
21:21:14  <Rybeast> what is the best graphic set at the moment? I've downloaded Zbase but it doesn't seem to have done anything
21:21:33  <peter1138> Original TTD graphics are the best.
21:21:40  <LordAro> best is very much your opinion
21:22:04  <LordAro> you change base sets from the "game options" menu
21:22:16  <Rybeast>
21:22:21  <Rybeast> Something that looks like that
21:22:24  <LordAro> peter1138: also, i agree
21:22:54  <LordAro> ah
21:23:03  <LordAro> pretty sure those graphics don't exist any more
21:23:14  <LordAro> not those specific ones
21:23:23  <LordAro> there are several 32bpp grfs out there though
21:23:27  <LordAro> and a couple of base sets
21:23:38  <Rybeast> So what would I search - 'base set'?
21:23:57  <LordAro> extra content download is divided into categories
21:25:04  <Rybeast> I've seen that, but that isn't going to help me work out how I beef up the graphics in my game if I don't know what I'm likely to need
21:25:56  <andythenorth> peter1138's opinion is the correct one
21:26:02  <LordAro> searching for "32bpp" might work
21:26:09  <andythenorth> some opinions are more wrong than others
21:26:29  <andythenorth> that video is horrorshow eh
21:26:39  <LordAro> but the graphics in the video are from a fork that ultimately largely got shelved, although the features themselves did get implemented into the core game
21:27:05  <LordAro> (i managed the graphics for it for a while)
21:27:31  <LordAro> as far as i know, barely any of the graphics themselves got converted to the new system
21:29:20  <Rybeast> So there's none of the new graphics or better looking graphics at all in this modern day?
21:29:48  <LordAro> there's zBase and other similar packs, but not exactly what you see in the video
21:30:33  <Rybeast> I'm wondering if I've done something wrong then... :/
21:30:44  <Rybeast> I thought I'd enabled zbase in the main settings
21:31:01  <LordAro> you'd definitely notice the difference
21:32:06  <Rybeast> I'll have to have another go
21:32:33  <Rybeast> are there any nice maps? No AI, spacious, room for expansion and development?
21:32:57  <LordAro> you keep asking subjective questions :p
21:33:03  <LordAro> yes, there are maps that people consider nice
21:33:24  <LordAro> there are some maps that are hard, that are easy, that are based on real life places, that are based on fantasy places
21:33:32  <LordAro> generate your own
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21:37:06  <frosch123> Rybeast: brix is modern looking
21:41:04  <Rybeast> hmmm. I still haven't managed to sort the graphics, so maybe making a scenario and making sure I click the right shit will help
21:41:27  <LordAro> Rybeast: you can only change the base set from the main menu
21:42:09  <LordAro>
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21:57:02  <Samu>
21:57:12  <Samu> it was in the youtube comments
21:58:23  <ST2> and points to
21:58:31  <ST2> but I'm with: [21:21:32] <peter1138> Original TTD graphics are the best.
21:58:38  <ST2> peter1138: \o/
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22:07:15  <supermop_work> ooh i joined the channel
22:16:33  <Samu> LordAro:
22:18:28  <LordAro> :)
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22:19:04  <Samu> red means, too little buses
22:19:10  <Samu> green means, too many buses
22:19:19  <Samu> cargodist was enabled
22:19:51  <LordAro> that's not what the legend indicates
22:20:01  <LordAro> (white too little, red too many)
22:20:04  <Samu> the legend is misleading
22:20:42  <LordAro> well, either way AroAI hasn't been touched since cargodist got merged
22:20:48  <LordAro> and has no concept of what that is
22:21:09  <LordAro> i'm not sure it does any management of existing routes at all
22:21:56  <Samu> the colors should be reversed imo
22:22:10  <Samu> it's hard to understand cargodist as is
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22:25:37  <Samu> i think the ideal color is one of the greens, unsure which one though
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22:26:40  <Samu> red just means there's too many passengers on this route, but too little buses to transport them
22:26:48  <Samu> something like that
22:27:07  <Samu> but the greens... confuse me
22:27:07  <LordAro> mm
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22:30:22  <supermop_work> green = good
22:30:32  <supermop_work> red = the route is over capacity
22:31:07  <supermop_work> red = every train is packed and there are still hundreds of people at the station who cannot fit on
22:31:28  <supermop_work> green means everyone can get on the train and find a seat
22:31:59  <supermop_work> green = riding the subway at 15:00, red is riding the subway at 18:00
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22:32:38  <supermop_work> white = no one even knows or cares about this subway,
22:32:53  <supermop_work> seems straightforward to me
22:33:08  <Samu> which green is worse?
22:33:18  <supermop_work> no green is bad
22:33:28  <Samu> which green comes after yellow?
22:33:37  <Samu> the brighter green or the darker green
22:33:39  <supermop_work> the one that is more yellow
22:34:05  <supermop_work> iirc there is a scale or something in the gui somewhere
22:34:36  <supermop_work> build in SE 6 hotels, equally spaced.
22:35:31  <supermop_work> build a train line  between hotel 1&2, one between 3&4, and one between 5&6
22:35:57  <supermop_work> have one train be 4 cars, one be 8, and one be 16
22:36:37  <supermop_work> if the hotel productions are all made equal that should let you see how different capacities look
22:39:05  <Samu> how do i build hotels? I can only build entire towns at once
22:40:39  <supermop_work> use a firs economy
22:41:10  <supermop_work> they are a first industry with a somewhat consistent high production of passengers
22:41:46  <supermop_work> so if you wanted to test three passenger routes with reproducible demand, that would be your best bet
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22:42:40  <supermop_work> ofc once the game is running production could vary a bit, as woud station rating, but if you set us all three routes at game start, they should probably be close enough to compare
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22:46:46  <Samu> lol, wormai started playing on my scenario
22:46:49  <Samu> :o
22:47:12  <Samu> actually, a shit ton of AIs, forgot to disable them :ç
22:48:32  <Samu> gonna try again
22:51:55  <Samu> ok i see
22:52:12  <Samu> the color before yellow is dark green
22:52:21  <Samu> that's why I find this confusing
22:52:54  <Samu> the more buses I add, the ligher the green becomes
22:54:31  <Samu> in my opinion, the greens are switched around
22:54:53  <Samu> unless I fail to understand this
22:58:27  <supermop_work> could be a valid point, could report it as a bug?
22:59:05  <supermop_work> i generally would say that the green with more red in its RGB should count as 'more yellow'
22:59:31  <Samu> im unsure as to what it really means, so I dunno if it's bugged, or if it's my interpretation
23:00:27  <Samu> that's also what makes more sense to me
23:02:24  <Samu> a dark green for me would mean I'm using too many buses?
23:02:37  <Samu> a dark reed would mean I'm using too little buses
23:04:01  <LordAro> you're thinking in terms of vehicles rather than passengers waiting
23:06:52  <Samu> the best color is then light green, optimal usage
23:07:21  <Samu> but i see it as too many buses, i could transport them all with less buses
23:07:47  <Samu> that would make the green color a bit darker
23:12:48  <Samu> it all points to dark green being the best bus/passenger ratio
23:17:48  <Samu> let me look at AroAI screenshot again
23:19:55  <Samu> yellow and dark green are thus the best ratios
23:20:12  <Samu> it's just too constrastful these colours though
23:21:17  <Samu> it's like they mean totally opposites of each other, while in fact, they're just next to each other
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23:43:14  <Samu> a
23:43:15  <Samu> - what colors are those? english plz!!
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23:59:18  <Samu> i don't play that game, but look at that balance!

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