Log for #openttd on 13th January 2018:
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00:08:35  <Samu> 75% life gone in a combo = BALANCE!
00:14:51  <Samu> dead chat? :(
00:16:31  <ST2> maybe here people sleep - well, we have 2 players that decided start 2rd WW - so, chats are not dead xD
00:16:37  <ST2> 3rd*
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00:17:41  <Samu> :)
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00:49:12  <Samu> well, cyas goodnight
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01:06:21  <Rybeast> Why might my tram have atopped moving? It's just sat there. I've deleted track and asked it to 'skip orders' but nothing is happening
01:06:49  <Eddi|zuHause> it's the end of the line and no turning loop?
01:07:00  <Eddi|zuHause> or you have ridiculous timetable wait time
01:07:21  <Rybeast> No, the track is all lined up
01:07:48  <Rybeast> I don't think I've timetabled any stoppage time. ITt isn't at a station!
01:08:26  <Eddi|zuHause> try to hit the reverse button
01:08:53  <Rybeast> isn't doing anything
01:08:57  <Rybeast> may have to use the cheat
01:09:07  <Eddi|zuHause> screenshot?
01:09:18  <Eddi|zuHause> still think it's missing track
01:09:44  <Rybeast> but all the other trams are travelling where this tram is stuck
01:14:35  <Rybeast> fml
01:16:58  <Eddi|zuHause> funny memes library?
01:17:53  <Rybeast> yes
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08:03:55  <andythenorth> o/
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09:13:03  <Wolf01> o/
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09:44:40  <andythenorth> hi Wolf01
09:44:44  <andythenorth> cat catenary?
09:44:55  <Wolf01> Already doing it
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09:55:40  <Wolf01> Good, at least now I made it compile without crashing :P
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09:57:58  <EarthlingKira> Good morning, I'm new here :3
09:58:17  <Wolf01> Hi
09:59:07  <EarthlingKira> OpenTTD has the nicest C++ code I've seen in an open-source game project to this day (even though I haven't looked into that many)
09:59:28  <Wolf01> Lol :D
09:59:47  <EarthlingKira> Why is that funny?
10:00:18  <EarthlingKira> Do you think it has bad code? You always should compare relative to other experiences :D
10:00:31  <Wolf01> I've seen better code, but yes, the parts I can understand well and change are enough well done
10:00:44  <EarthlingKira> Better code in open source game projects?
10:01:01  <EarthlingKira> If so please tell me (just to have a look and maybe learn a thing or two)
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10:04:12  <Wolf01> OTTD is the only open source "game" I follow, other projects I've put my hands one were designed in a different way
10:04:15  <Wolf01> *on
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10:06:23  <EarthlingKira> Yes, I surely also know better code in other projects which are either developed by a tight-knit group (like a company dev team) or are not game projects
10:13:56  <LordAro> EarthlingKira: OTTD's code can be pretty hairy. it's totally consistent, which is nice, but ultimately the codebase is still mostly C (given that's what it used to be) and a hell of a lot of globals
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10:24:02  <Wolf01> Heh, I just noticed I want a "pipette" tool to activate a road building tool based on what there is on the tile I'm hovering, with NRT (and railtypes) it will come really handy
10:24:55  <Wolf01> It might be a problem on tiles with level crossings or 2 different roadtypes, but in all other cases it should be easy
10:25:20  <Eddi|zuHause> i've seen a cities syklines lets play where the guy constantly complained that there's no pipette tool
10:25:45  <Eddi|zuHause> if there are multiple types, you just cycle throught hem?
10:25:47  <Wolf01> Too much F got me used to these bad ideas :(
10:26:00  <Wolf01> Yeah, good suggestion Eddi
10:27:35  <Wolf01> Ok, now I got rid of all the occurrencies of the check for road catenary and moved all of them in a single function
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10:28:04  <Wolf01> So I can change the behaviour in a single place
10:32:48  <andythenorth> got a commit?
10:32:49  <andythenorth> o_O
10:32:52  <Wolf01> Not yer
10:33:01  <Wolf01> *yet
10:33:18  <andythenorth> I'll draw ships then
10:34:13  <Wolf01> Ok, I can commit now
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10:40:50  <Wolf01> Slow connection is slow
10:44:30  <andythenorth> do we have test grfs? o_O
10:44:41  <andythenorth> supermop: trolleybi has catenary eh?
10:45:11  <Wolf01> Branch: both-catenaries
10:45:24  <Wolf01> Yes, checking with trolleybi
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10:51:23  <Borg> aaaaaaaaaaaa
10:51:40  <Borg> anyone know if.. and how.. to change GS settings via console?
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10:53:15  <EarthlingKira> @all for players who like to make rather short cargo routes (and not be forced to make long routes, but still be able to do it) I've created balance patches:
10:53:19  <EarthlingKira>
10:53:55  <andythenorth> lose money on short routes? :o
10:54:00  * andythenorth never has that problem :)
10:54:30  <andythenorth> how short is short?
10:54:35  <EarthlingKira> I've actually not yet found a patch or NewGRF who's done it like that. I've only found a NewGRF to limit maximum payments to a fixed distance (which sucks, sometimes you have to make long routes) and I've found a NewGRF which has linear payments for every distance (this also sucks, bus stations 2 tiles away give too much profit)
10:54:42  <EarthlingKira> @andythenorth I'm talking about like 3-5 tiles
10:55:24  <EarthlingKira> Or transporting coal 10 tiles away with trucks also made me loose money. (4% inflation, high maintenance costs, infrastructure maintenance enabled)
10:55:30  <andythenorth> ok, I would think 'short' is about 10 tiles
10:55:36  <andythenorth> you have inflation on?
10:55:38  <EarthlingKira> Yes
10:55:40  <andythenorth> inflation is a bug
10:55:57  <EarthlingKira> And inflation is coupled to loan interest says the setting description
10:56:02  <EarthlingKira> Nah, I like inflation
10:56:03  <andythenorth> if had trunk commit rights, inflation would be deleted
10:56:04  <Wolf01> andythenorth: wires are a pixel mess :D but at least you can see both poles for road and tram
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10:56:32  <Wolf01> We are lucky you don't have commit rights ;)
10:56:49  <EarthlingKira> @andythenorth do you have high maintenance costs and infrastructure maintenance enabled then?
10:57:05  <andythenorth> no
10:57:15  <andythenorth> also I play with my own newgrfs
10:57:27  <EarthlingKira> Ah well sure then you can make a profit with routes ~ 10 tiles :D
10:57:55  <EarthlingKira> I really like my small city bus lines with stations everywhere and I want them to make some money
10:58:55  <andythenorth> my bus stops are about 10-12 tiles apart
11:00:07  <EarthlingKira> What about the houses inbetween?
11:00:21  <Wolf01> I try to make bus stops so catchement areas don't overlap :P
11:00:32  <EarthlingKira> It has only 3 catchment area tiles, right?
11:00:51  <EarthlingKira> [A][a][a][a][b][b][b][B]
11:00:56  <EarthlingKira> That would be 7 tiles distance
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11:00:57  <andythenorth> I was counting manhattan distance ;)
11:01:01  <EarthlingKira> (or 8?)
11:01:10  <Eddi|zuHause> 7
11:01:16  <EarthlingKira> are you letting your buses drive zigzag in case? :D
11:01:27  <andythenorth> just the shape of the town
11:02:12  <Eddi|zuHause> i ususlly put my stops closer
11:02:19  <andythenorth> anyway GL EarthlingKira
11:02:20  <andythenorth> :)
11:02:30  <andythenorth> all attempts to nerf distance payment have been resisted
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11:04:08  <Wolf01> So, did you try it, andythenorth?
11:04:15  <Wolf01> It = the cat
11:04:17  <andythenorth> Wolf01: have you pushed one that draws both>?
11:04:21  <Wolf01> Yes
11:04:24  <andythenorth> I've got the de-duplicated commit
11:04:27  <peter1138> Hmm, do I really want to download 739 MB just for... audio drivers?
11:04:30  <andythenorth> but I only see one catenary
11:05:10  <Wolf01> It contains both, strange
11:05:42  <Wolf01> Check road_cmd.cpp:1474
11:05:52  <andythenorth> defers to whichever was built first I think
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11:06:07  <Borg> EarthlingKira: in city transportation is usually donated from city officials dude
11:06:12  <Borg> its never profitable ;)
11:06:16  <Wolf01> It just draws road and then tram
11:06:29  <Wolf01> Tram is always on top of road one
11:06:37  <andythenorth> ok
11:06:41  <andythenorth> I try more grfs
11:06:43  <Borg> go to multiplauer server.. find mogul who asks for city grow.. and he will donate you some cash :D
11:07:51  <Wolf01>
11:08:00  <andythenorth> ok I can see it
11:08:22  <andythenorth> but not like that
11:08:28  <andythenorth> wonder if I have different unspooled
11:08:38  <Wolf01> Grey on grey is a bit hard to see
11:08:48  <andythenorth> I have v2 unspooled
11:08:54  <andythenorth> the poles seem to overlap
11:09:33  <Wolf01> I have.. I wonder which version :D
11:09:44  <EarthlingKira> @andythenorth Thank you, I don't think that this patch should go into trunk (although I could imagine it being based on a setting)
11:10:05  <EarthlingKira> And the patch doesn't just reduce distance payments, it rather changes the algorithm to be partially logarithmic
11:10:16  <EarthlingKira> Earn more on short distances, less on long distances
11:11:46  <andythenorth> Wolf01: can you DM me the version of unspooled you have?
11:11:56  <EarthlingKira> 2 years ago I already patched my own game and used a real logarithm but then I've seen that I can't use doubles/floats because of desync possibilities m(
11:13:13  <EarthlingKira> Oh and I have one final patch @channel
11:13:16  <EarthlingKira>
11:13:40  <EarthlingKira> I did not want a complete breakdown system overhaul like other patches do... I just wanted the chance algorithm and reduced breakdown chance settings to make more sense
11:14:11  <EarthlingKira> So this is just a small tweak to the original chance calculation algorithm which makes it *MUCH* more enjoyable and reliability actually changes things now
11:14:37  <EarthlingKira> And reduced breakdown chance no longer causes vehicles between 60% and 100% reliability to behave exactly the same...
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11:15:34  <Wolf01> Meh, I have 0.005bps upload
11:16:19  <Wolf01> andythenorth: check forum PM
11:17:28  <Borg> honestly.. prospecting algoritm should be fixed.. so it will not place production and raw industries close to each other
11:17:38  <Wolf01> (I hope it was uploaded fine)
11:18:49  <andythenorth> Wolf01: got it
11:19:03  <andythenorth> still don't see separate poles
11:19:07  <andythenorth> but both wires are drawn
11:19:24  <Wolf01> Did you try with all different roadtypes?
11:19:30  <andythenorth> the poles are drawn
11:19:32  <andythenorth> they just overlap
11:19:37  <Wolf01> Strange
11:19:41  <andythenorth> sprite inspector finds them
11:19:51  <andythenorth> ok so it probably works eh
11:19:59  <andythenorth> think it's good
11:20:54  <andythenorth> ok found a non-overlapping type
11:21:04  <andythenorth> works
11:21:09  <andythenorth> so what authors need to do is
11:21:26  <andythenorth> don't try and differentiate wires
11:21:33  <andythenorth> use the poles, preferably colour-themed
11:21:37  <andythenorth> will be fine
11:21:41  <Wolf01> +1
11:21:51  <andythenorth> poles are much more legible + different
11:21:54  <andythenorth> wires are blah
11:22:08  <Wolf01> Wires are a line of grey pixels on grey
11:22:11  <andythenorth> they barely show anyway because of tram rails
11:22:26  <andythenorth> so unspooled does it fine
11:22:41  <andythenorth> I reckon merge that
11:22:49  <andythenorth> it's just drawing code?
11:22:53  <Wolf01> Yes
11:22:53  <andythenorth> no savegame or anything?
11:23:09  <Wolf01> Just drawing code
11:23:15  <EarthlingKira> Btw, one final question regarding my patches: How's the process in case they are trunk-worthy, who would decide that? I'm willing to create boolean options and settings with parameters to change the magnitudes :)
11:23:29  <andythenorth> cool, merge to road-and-tram-types
11:23:37  <andythenorth> EarthlingKira: currently no-one knows :)
11:23:50  <andythenorth> it's pretty much luck whether anything gets to trunk
11:24:04  <Wolf01> Are you sure? I would wait for frosch green light
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11:25:20  <Wolf01> Also I would make the patch better, merge the "DrawRoadCatenary" with "DrawCatenary"
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11:32:53  <Rybeast> Any ideas why one of my trams might have completely stopped and failed to work? I've checked timetabling, pathing, when some trams push past they're able to go in both ways the broken tram should go, but now there is a huge tailback and I don't know how to rectify
11:33:23  <andythenorth> Wolf01: ok code review probably a good idea
11:33:31  <andythenorth> Rybeast: missing track piece?
11:33:34  <andythenorth> usually
11:34:49  <Rybeast> It's definitely not a missing track piece. Trams are still able to follow the exact path in all three ways
11:35:27  <andythenorth> is it stopped?
11:35:33  <Rybeast> yes
11:35:38  <Wolf01> It just stopped there with speed=0?
11:35:41  <andythenorth> red flag stopped?
11:36:00  <Rybeast> Doesn't seem to be. All the trams are green
11:36:22  <andythenorth> is it on a hill
11:36:23  <andythenorth> ?
11:36:32  <Rybeast> nope. on the flat
11:36:42  <andythenorth> is it broken down?
11:36:46  <Rybeast> nope
11:36:51  <Rybeast> jiust not moving
11:36:51  <Rybeast> at all
11:37:00  <andythenorth> "odd"
11:37:19  <Wolf01> I ran into this problem with NRT
11:37:20  <Rybeast> i wondered if I'd set timetabling up incorrectly, but it doesn't seem to be affected by my moving and editing timetabling
11:38:00  <Rybeast> NRT?
11:41:40  <Wolf01> A branch we are working on
11:41:49  <Wolf01> Did you change the grf?
11:44:59  <Rybeast> well, I added some last night, but I don't think I changed any, no
11:45:05  <Rybeast> haven't edited at all
11:45:27  <Wolf01> But you changed active grfs in a running game?
11:46:17  <Rybeast> no
11:46:37  <Rybeast> they were there before I started
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11:46:56  <Wolf01> Do you have a savegame of before the problem occours?
11:47:03  <Wolf01> Quak
11:47:24  <Rybeast> I don't think so, no
11:47:25  <Rybeast> lemme check
11:48:04  <Wolf01> frosch123: made this, commission by andy :P
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11:50:54  <Rybeast> I do, but it doesn't show anything there either.Everything does what it should do. It was when I added the newer trams I guess, but I don't know why
11:53:37  <Wolf01> Could you replicate it without adding the new trams?
11:54:37  <Rybeast> I'm going to have a quick look now
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11:55:37  <Wolf01> lol, why people needs to write like that?
11:56:54  <frosch123> it was christmas
12:01:40  <andythenorth> Wolf01: so just town roads to solve now?
12:01:47  <andythenorth> everything else is blah blah
12:01:47  <Wolf01> Yes
12:01:58  <Wolf01> And fix scenario editor
12:02:14  <Wolf01> There's already a branch for that
12:03:22  <Wolf01> But that does a lot more, so I'll need to extract a part and apply it to the base branch
12:03:52  <EarthlingKira> Btw, do you think a rework of the advertisement campaigns make sense, i.e. does anyone use them?
12:04:43  <Wolf01> I used it 2 or 3 times
12:04:56  <EarthlingKira> They actually sometimes make sense in ECS to increase production rate of factories
12:05:07  <EarthlingKira> But otherwise the effect is gone too fast
12:07:26  <EarthlingKira> I think the effect of a large advertisement campaign should stay for 3 or 6 months and have a larger radius
12:08:20  * Wolf01 -> lunch
12:08:58  <EarthlingKira> I think the advertisement system should be balanced around the idea that you can *actually* increase your revenue with doing non-stop advertisements
12:09:11  <EarthlingKira> (when you have lots of stations in/around a certain city)
12:09:19  <andythenorth> frosch123: I thought this was a graphviz issue, but on second-reading, it's a makefile problem?
12:09:36  <andythenorth> the \ are noticeable...
12:12:17  <frosch123> well, windows, ¯¯\o/¯¯
12:14:30  <frosch123> andythenorth: i guess your problem is bin/find-files
12:14:33  <frosch123> line 15
12:15:00  <frosch123> it thinks "\" is part of the name and no directory separator
12:15:16  <frosch123> and then escapes it
12:17:13  <frosch123> i don't think it is fixable without try-error on an actual windows system
12:17:28  <frosch123> noone can predict when those tools use / or \
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12:23:50  <andythenorth> thanks
12:32:55  <Wolf01> On windows you should use / anyway
12:33:12  <andythenorth> I have NFI how to even start solving this :)
12:33:34  <andythenorth> I do have windows VM, but it's vanilla, no dev tools of any kind
12:33:39  <andythenorth> just for IE testing
12:33:55  <Wolf01> I have windows but it's bloated of dev tools
12:41:16  <EarthlingKira> @Wolf01 but that is because windows dev tools are bloated by themselves. Visual Studio up to 82 GiB install size m(
12:42:00  <Wolf01> Nah, I installed even more dev tools
12:45:59  <Wolf01> I was (am) a web developer, so I also have a lot of node, ruby, sass related stuff, php stuff too, android stuff (both VS xamarin and android studio)
12:46:57  <Wolf01> And a bit of asm and plc stuff
12:47:55  <EarthlingKira> Web development on Windows :'( I'm also (partially) a web developer, but I switched to Linux 10 years ago for coding and never looked back :3
12:48:54  <Wolf01> Now I use WLS to do things I didn't could do before, It was made exactly for that, so I don't even need to dualboot
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13:39:05  <Samu> hi
13:40:00  <EarthlingKira> hi
13:49:27  <Samu> hmm patches to nerf stuff!
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13:57:36  <Jamesy> Hello. I've been setting my vehicles to have services every x days or when the percentage drops to y. The vehicles don't seem to be headed back to depot to be serviced however. How would I sort this?
13:58:16  <Samu> the depot might be too far away
13:58:31  <Eddi|zuHause> i think it's "percentage drops <by> X (from the maximum)"
13:58:42  <Jamesy> But they all pass the depot between the two stations?
13:58:51  <Samu> are breakdowns enabled?
13:59:00  <Jamesy> yes
13:59:08  <Samu> well, then.... i dunno
13:59:16  <Eddi|zuHause> so if you set 80%, and the max is 93%, it would need to be 13% to trigger, or something
13:59:57  <Jamesy> so if my percentage was 60%, it could drop down to 33% before needing servicing?
13:59:58  <Samu> i think 15% is the ideal value
14:00:06  <Samu> the default of 50% is kinda ridiculous
14:01:22  <Jamesy> it is, but even then I have trains who have a reliability of 0
14:02:07  <Samu> hmm this might be something worth testing
14:02:07  <Jamesy> so i'm having to identify these trains and send t depot manually and adjust the servicing requirements
14:02:19  <Samu> hunting the ideal breakdown as a % value :p
14:03:00  <Jamesy> which makes sense, because the trains reliability can't drop any further, so is the game identifying that the train doesn't need servicing because it hasn't dropped by x in that time, even though it has dropped below the baseline already?
14:04:03  <Samu> do you have send to depot orders?
14:04:13  <Samu> they're not automatically serviced
14:06:00  <Samu> i feel like testing EarthlingKira patches
14:06:37  <Jamesy> I haven't put in 'send to depot' - if I do, is there an option to 'send if'?
14:08:59  <Samu> try "service at nearest depot" or "service at <input depot>"
14:09:00  <Eddi|zuHause> yes, there is "service at depot" if you ctrl+click while placing
14:09:26  <Samu> when the vehicle executes that order, and it needs servicing, it will head to depot
14:09:34  <Eddi|zuHause> that means "go to depot, but only if servicing is needed"
14:09:35  <Samu> if it doesn't needs servicing, it just skips the order
14:12:16  <Jamesy> Can I set out a precedent to all my vehicles of that type? Like, I've got 18 freight trains running around?
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14:13:16  <Eddi|zuHause> you can do shared orders
14:13:25  <Eddi|zuHause> so all 18 freight trains have a common order list
14:13:42  <Jamesy> Ooh, how do I do that?
14:13:44  <Eddi|zuHause> then all future changes will apply to all of them simultaneously
14:14:30  <Eddi|zuHause> you assign the orders to the first train like normal, and on the second train, you don't assign any station, but with the "go to" tool you ctrl+click on the first train
14:14:53  <Eddi|zuHause> (without ctrl it makes a copy of the order list, with ctrl it shares the order list)
14:15:26  <Jamesy> excellent, so by 'control clicking' I'll only need to do the one order?
14:22:49  <EarthlingKira> @Samu Feel free, and if you have suggestions I'm glad to hear them :)
14:25:28  <andythenorth> so who wants to patch FIRS for Windows then? o_O
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14:43:16  <supermop> yo andythenorth what's this talk of poles?
14:43:24  <supermop> and do you need old versions?
14:43:35  <andythenorth> nah
14:43:35  <supermop> all versions should have same pole sprites tho
14:43:44  <Montana_> hi
14:44:04  <Montana_> i updated a translation for FIRS this morning
14:44:32  <Montana_> is that update automatically uploaded to FIRS repo?
14:44:47  <frosch123> yes
14:45:06  <frosch123> normally you also get a playable .grf at about 17:15 CET, but probably not today
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14:46:22  <supermop> pole sprites do need some work
14:47:06  <supermop> and there is a bug with front most pole not showing on U tiles where the loop is at the lower left or right
14:47:08  <andythenorth> Montana has gone
14:47:14  <andythenorth> I am probably going to release FIRS today
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14:48:55  <Montana_> Sorry, internet connection interupted
14:49:14  <Montana_> but i did read your message Frosch
14:49:19  <Montana_> Thanks
14:49:28  <frosch123> [15:47] <andythenorth> I am probably going to release FIRS today
14:49:57  <Montana_> 3.0.2?
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15:06:46  <Samu> testing the breakdown patch, i hope it screws aircraft
15:07:53  <EarthlingKira> @Samu My breakdown patch reduces the amount of breakdown occurrences, why should it screw aircraft?
15:08:21  <Samu> because they're imba
15:08:34  <EarthlingKira> Do you mean compared to playing without breakdowns? ;-)
15:08:42  <Samu> yes
15:10:58  <Samu> i'm unsure what this patch does, you say ships never breakdown if they had 60%
15:11:03  <Samu> intreesting
15:11:24  <EarthlingKira> Oops, maybe my wording is misleading
15:12:32  <Samu> ah, same reliability
15:12:34  <EarthlingKira> In the vanilla OpenTTD when playing with "reduced breakdowns" a ship with 60% reliability and a ship with 100% reliability will break exactly the same amount of time
15:12:47  <EarthlingKira> Oops, I mean
15:13:08  <EarthlingKira> Forget my last sentence :D
15:13:37  <EarthlingKira> A ship which has >= 60% reliability (so no matter if 60%, 80% or 100%) will not profit at all from "reduced breakdown chance" setting
15:14:04  <EarthlingKira> It will break exactly the same amount of time no matter if you have the setting enabled or not
15:14:40  <Samu> ah
15:15:50  <EarthlingKira> With my patch you a) really always have a reduced breakdown chance when that setting is enabled and b) reliability % has a much stronger effect on breakdown chance
15:15:53  <Samu> this is a bad timing for building openttd, i'm testing AIs at the same time :(
15:17:12  <EarthlingKira> And c) when playing with "reduced breakdowns" setting a train with 60% reliability now breaks more often than one with 100%, as you would expect
15:17:55  <EarthlingKira> In vanilla openttd with "reduced breakdown" setting trains from 60% to 100% and ships from 20% to 100% reliability are indistinguishable
15:18:36  <Samu> that seems strange
15:18:53  <EarthlingKira> I would really hope that that patch is merged into trunk, because I want to play with reduced breakdowns but still have a train with 60% reliability be worse than a train with 100%, right?
15:19:22  <Samu> i'm not sure if I follow you yet, but it peaked my interest
15:20:57  <EarthlingKira> Okay I explain the other way around: in vanilla OpenTTD:
15:21:12  <EarthlingKira> - ships always get a flat invisible 40% bonus to reliability
15:21:32  <Samu> if (v->type == VEH_SHIP) rel += 0x6666;
15:21:50  <EarthlingKira> - every vehicle/ship/airplane gets another flat invisible 40% bonus to reliability when "reduced breakdown" is active
15:22:32  <EarthlingKira> That means a train with 60% reliability has an effective reliability of 100% with that setting enabled, while a train with 100% reliability also has an effective reliability of 100%
15:22:38  <Samu> if (_settings_game.difficulty.vehicle_breakdowns == 1) rel += 0x6666;
15:22:41  <Samu> i see
15:23:37  <Samu> that is the part I still don't get it
15:23:59  <Samu> _breakdown_chance[(uint)min(rel, 0xffff) >> 10]
15:24:02  <Samu> is this it?
15:24:43  <EarthlingKira> the min(rel, 0xffff) basically says that the maximum reliability you can have is 100%, no matter how much was added before
15:25:07  <EarthlingKira> And the code around that part is to convert this big number into one that is used for the breakdown chance
15:26:44  <Samu> static const byte _breakdown_chance[64] = { 	  3,   3,   3,   3,   3,   3,   3,   3, 	  4,   4,   5,   5,   6,   6,   7,   7, 	  8,   8,   9,   9,  10,  10,  11,  11, 	 12,  13,  13,  13,  13,  14,  15,  16, 	 17,  19,  21,  25,  28,  31,  34,  37, 	 40,  44,  48,  52,  56,  60,  64,  68, 	 72,  80,  90, 100, 110, 120, 130, 140, 	150, 170, 190, 210, 230, 250, 250, 250, };
15:26:49  <EarthlingKira> Yes that's the one
15:28:21  <EarthlingKira> you get a comparison value of 250 when you have 100% reliability and a comparison value of 3 when you have 0% reliability
15:29:19  <EarthlingKira> In vanilla OpenTTD the reliability only says how long it will take to reach the breakdown threshold
15:29:52  <EarthlingKira> So a higher reliability does not really decrease breakdown chance, it only takes longer (sounds like it's the same, but it's not :D)
15:31:49  <Borg> hmmm ... Cargo flow tool is invaluable tool now.. when using stockpiling industries :)
15:32:25  <Samu> @calc ffff >> 10
15:32:25  <DorpsGek> Samu: Error: 'ffff' is not a defined function.
15:32:29  <Samu> hmm k
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15:32:35  <Samu> @calc 0xffff >> 10
15:32:35  <DorpsGek> Samu: Error: Something in there wasn't a valid number.
15:33:22  <Samu> whatever, my calcultator says that is = 0
15:33:39  <Samu> _breakdown_chance[0] = 3 ?
15:35:00  <Samu> 3 <= v->breakdown_chance
15:35:18  <EarthlingKira> 0xffff >> 10 = 63
15:35:40  <Samu> 63? meh, i fail at math
15:35:48  <EarthlingKira> I mean 64
15:35:53  <EarthlingKira> But it's 0-63
15:36:03  <EarthlingKira> So yes 63 in that case :D
15:36:21  <EarthlingKira> You probably did not deactivate hexadecimal mode when entering the value for rightshift into your calculator
15:36:26  <Samu> or, right I was doing 0x10, not the real 10
15:36:51  <EarthlingKira> @calc 65535 >> 10
15:36:51  <DorpsGek> EarthlingKira: Error: Something in there wasn't a valid number.
15:37:03  <Samu> _breakdown_chance[63] = 250
15:37:16  <EarthlingKira> Yep
15:38:39  <Samu> hmm ok, must investigate how is 'rel' calculated too
15:39:07  <EarthlingKira> I think rel is simply 100% = 0xffff and 0% = 0x0000
15:39:23  <EarthlingKira> It's the reliability
15:39:25  <Samu> rel = v->reliability
15:39:34  <Samu> if (v->type == VEH_SHIP) rel += 0x6666;
15:39:58  <Samu> if (_settings_game.difficulty.vehicle_breakdowns == 1) rel += 0x6666;
15:40:23  <Samu> I get it now
15:40:45  <EarthlingKira> Cool :3
15:41:26  <EarthlingKira> I don't like vanilla algorithm. I want to have less breakdowns but at the same time I want a train with 60% reliability to break more often than one with 100%
15:41:28  <Samu> it then compares with itself without the added bonus, weird
15:42:09  <Samu> ah nvm, im seeing this wrong
15:42:31  <Samu> there's v->reliability and v->breakdown_chance, two different things
15:42:34  <EarthlingKira> Yes :)
15:43:12  <EarthlingKira> Even though the naming is... well... misleading
15:43:53  <EarthlingKira> But with my patch the breakdown_chance actually acts like a real chance
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15:44:47  <EarthlingKira> Personally the only thing I'd still like to add is (linearly) increased wear on vehicles based on current velocity
15:45:18  <EarthlingKira> Because when you use that system and have a "go to depot" order and have trains with 600 km/h, you have virtually no more breakdowns
15:45:56  <EarthlingKira> @Samu What's your opinion on that?
15:46:38  <EarthlingKira> (This would also fulfil your wish to screw airplanes :3)
15:46:56  <Samu> I'm still building, it's taking longer than I expected, think it's a bad time for testing this
15:47:07  <Samu> must finish my AI tests first
15:48:33  <Samu> i want a new cpu
15:48:40  <Samu> :)
15:49:15  <Samu> something that lets me test 8 AIs in 8 4096x4096 maps while building openttd in visual studio
15:51:36  <EarthlingKira> Ryzen Threadripper
15:56:15  <Samu> yeah, i thought of that, but then intel did some price drops, so i'm currently undecided. also my current rig is still doing fine, except when i start testing crazy stuff
15:56:27  <Samu> not sure if it's the right moment
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15:57:28  <Samu> v->reliability is a uint16
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15:57:36  <Samu> v->breakdown_chance is a byte
15:58:59  <Samu> int chance = v->breakdown_chance;
15:59:14  <Samu> i wonder if chance can sometimes be a negative value? :/ i fail at programming
16:00:01  <EarthlingKira> An int can be negative if you cause it to be negative, yes ;-)
16:00:49  <Samu> byte to int conversion
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16:01:27  <EarthlingKira> No, an int has more bits than a byte
16:02:16  <Samu> ah, so if v->breakdown_chance is 255 byte, int chance is 255 too, i see
16:02:35  <Samu> Programmer expert here!
16:02:39  <Samu> j/k
16:03:59  <Samu> i wonder what's the priority of visual studio, seems like idling...
16:04:22  <Samu> granted, I only got about ~5% cpu free
16:04:44  <Samu> taking so long to build
16:06:01  <Samu> (GB(r, 16, 8) <= v->breakdown_chance && GB(r, 16, 8) >= _breakdown_chance[(uint)min(rel, 0xffff) >> 10])
16:06:13  <Samu> r = Random();
16:08:25  <EarthlingKira> My patch combines the element of the vanilla algorithm that a minimum breakdown amount must have been accumulated and additionally applies some chance based on reliability to see if the vehicle should really breakdown
16:08:50  <supermop> EarthlingKira: interesting passenger patch
16:09:25  <Samu> the Random() is a biiig number
16:09:32  <Samu> uint32
16:10:53  <Samu> 1111 1111 XXXX XXXX 1111 1111 1111 1111
16:11:00  <Samu> you take those X
16:11:35  <Samu> that's a value from 0 to 255, right?
16:11:51  <EarthlingKira> @supermop Thanks :) I enjoy building PAX networks much more with that patch, small villages actually make a profit and big cities are no longer overloaded
16:12:17  <EarthlingKira> @Samu Right, this GB() thingie is just used to get smaller random numbers
16:13:15  <Samu> if the value is 0, it still breakdowns
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16:13:43  <Samu> 0 <= 0
16:14:12  <Samu> && 0 >= 3
16:14:16  <Samu> nah, guess not
16:14:17  <EarthlingKira> :D
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16:15:51  <supermop> the problem is made worse by the town zone pattern too -
16:17:01  <supermop> as once a town gets very large, it is essentially primarily the densest zone by area, so the majority of houses are then producing the insane amount of passengers
16:17:19  <EarthlingKira> Yes :) You should try playing with my patch, it's much better :3
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16:19:19  <Samu> my patches are ugly coded, but I like the ideas they provide ;p
16:19:25  <Samu> can u check some?
16:19:26  <Samu> lol
16:19:59  <Samu> ah, in the forum i go by the name of xarick
16:21:40  <Samu> ah, take a look at this one, it's messing with breakdowns, and probably needs better code in the breakdown code
16:24:26  <EarthlingKira> Regarding code "quality" I'd say that it's not perfect that the aircraft specific code is mixed into the breakdown code which increases coupling ;-)
16:27:22  <EarthlingKira> I'd be interested to write really really good code and do some refactorings and increase some game design mechanics, but for that I'd need to know that it is potentially wanted and could be merged into trunk
16:41:17  <EarthlingKira> @Samu What exactly did you mean when you said check your patches? Do you want a rating, some improvement feedback, a code review or maybe even code improvements? ;-)
16:46:41  <Samu> all
16:46:43  <Samu> :)
16:48:19  <EarthlingKira> @supermop I've answered to your feedback, what do you think? :)
16:48:36  <Samu> it has finally built! testing the breakdown patch
16:48:40  <Samu> brb
16:48:59  <EarthlingKira> Are you testing with reduced breakdown rate or with normal breakdown rate setting?
16:49:32  <Samu> testing with reduced atm
16:49:51  <EarthlingKira> Okay :) I've tweaked it only for reduced setting :D
16:50:57  <EarthlingKira> normal breakdown setting still has the reliability chance effect, but I've not tested/tweaked it with this setting
16:57:20  <Samu> I got a trigger!
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16:57:52  <Samu> 54 <= 58 && 54 >= 48
16:58:00  <Samu> BOOM, BREAKDOWN
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16:59:43  <Samu> GB(r, 16, 8) what exactly is this doing? it's a bit confusing
17:00:47  <Samu> 		r	406248016	unsigned int
17:00:55  <Samu> 		rel	43763	int
17:01:17  <Samu> sorry for noob question
17:02:29  <Samu> it's randomly getting a value from 0 to 255
17:02:41  <Samu> but... what's the intention
17:05:48  <LordAro> "random" is probably the wrong word there
17:05:52  <Samu> @calc 59/256
17:05:52  <DorpsGek> Samu: 0.23046875
17:06:20  <LordAro> GB is a very well used function, i'd recommend looking it up and working out what it's doing
17:06:38  <Samu> r = Random();
17:06:43  <Samu> so it's random, kinda
17:07:13  <LordAro> ah right, i thought you were referring to GB
17:07:37  <Samu> the pseudo-random number generator thing
17:10:21  <Samu> i see that v->breakdown_chance can at times stay the same
17:10:43  <Samu> chance =+1
17:10:45  <Samu> is gone
17:12:20  <Samu> it was previously always adding 1 to v->breakdown_chance every day
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17:13:54  <Samu> I wonder... why do ships get special treatment :(
17:14:25  <EarthlingKira> @Samu I didn't want to change too much
17:14:38  <EarthlingKira> To differentiate from breakdown overhaul patches
17:17:01  <Samu> what will happen when reliability is 0%
17:17:19  <Samu> seems that reduced breakdowns will make them quite good, lol
17:17:58  <Samu> brb testing
17:39:36  <Samu> aha, it's finally starting to make sense for me
17:41:13  <Samu> EarthlingKira: wouldn't it make better sense to have a 0% reliability with reduced breakdowns to behave equal as a 0% reliability with normal breakdowns?
17:43:26  <Samu> just saying, in multiplayer servers, unmaintainced companies should have their old vehicles cannibalize the profits
17:47:42  <Samu> alright, let's compare
17:48:08  <Samu> 1.7.2 - 30 breakdowns in 3 years, 0 months
17:48:25  <Samu> patch - 30 breakdowns in 4 years, 3 months
17:48:37  <Samu> reduced breakdowns
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17:50:01  <m3henry> Evening
17:51:13  <EarthlingKira> @Samu That seems fair, doesm
17:51:18  <EarthlingKira> doesn't it*
17:51:43  <Samu> now i'm testing normal breakdowns, will take a while
17:52:17  <Samu> i think so
17:53:36  <Samu> from 100% to 0% reliability, it broke down 45 times, in 1.7.2
17:53:56  <Samu> from 100% to 0% reliability, it broke down 24 times, in patched
17:54:38  <Samu> waiting for 100 breakdowns
17:56:04  <m3henry> I'm never sure how I feel about breakdowns
17:57:08  <Samu> it feels too forgiving now
17:57:16  <m3henry> Sometimes I feel like they add depth and make descions more interesting, but they become rather annoying when density rises
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17:58:23  <m3henry> If rolling stock pooling was a thing, then I could see it being very interesting
18:00:13  <Wolf01> frosch123, what do you think about drawing both the catenaries? Should we merge it to NRT?
18:03:09  <Samu> 1.7.2 - 100 breakdowns in 3 years, 8 months
18:03:24  <Samu> patch - 100 breakdowns in 7 years, 7 months
18:03:29  <Samu> normal breakdowns
18:04:06  <Samu> i think 0% reliability needs special care
18:04:13  <Samu> seems too forgiving now
18:05:16  <andythenorth> breakdowns are tedious
18:05:19  <andythenorth> I turn them off
18:05:35  <andythenorth> even on, they're trivially prevented by forced-servicing
18:06:12  <m3henry> I liked the idea of making breakdowns reduce the power output of engines when they happen
18:06:28  <m3henry> There was a patch floating around that did that
18:06:38  <m3henry> rather than a full stop
18:07:18  <frosch123> Wolf01: go ahead
18:07:22  <frosch123> makes it more visually clear
18:09:41  <Samu> patch - 30 breakdowns in 2 years, 9 months, reduced breakdowns
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18:11:46  <Samu> strange, i had the impression it was breaking down more often when the reliability was not yet 0%, but close to 0
18:12:25  <Samu> how can I quantify this :(
18:12:29  <Wolf01> I cleaned it up a bit, renamed functions too
18:14:22  <Wolf01> Merge in progress
18:15:40  <Wolf01> Cat is done, andythenorth should be happy
18:18:53  <andythenorth> Wolf01: nice
18:19:03  <andythenorth> now just town crap :)
18:19:21  <Wolf01> And fixes
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18:19:51  <andythenorth> Is there a proposed implementation for town?
18:19:59  <andythenorth> there are a few ways it could be done
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18:21:05  <andythenorth> - take ownership
18:21:09  <andythenorth> - don't take ownership
18:21:26  <andythenorth> - allow build if compatible with ROAD
18:21:31  <andythenorth> - allow building any
18:22:35  <Wolf01> Also there is default road for towns
18:24:05  <Wolf01> I don't know what could happen if a grf disables standard road
18:32:20  <Samu> [18:09] <Samu> patch - 30 breakdowns in 2 years, 9 months, reduced breakdowns*
18:32:30  <Samu> i meant normal breakdowns, sorry
18:32:37  <Samu> not reduced
18:33:53  <EarthlingKira> > patch - 100 breakdowns in 7 years, 7 months
18:33:59  <EarthlingKira> Was this with reduced breakdown setting or normal?
18:34:29  <andythenorth> Wolf01: I could make a grf that tests disabling standard ROAD
18:34:33  <andythenorth> not sure how right now
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18:38:10  <Samu> that was with normal
18:38:31  <Samu> i started a bus with 100% reliability, then removed depot
18:38:53  <Samu> so, the majority of breakdowns was with 0% reliability
18:39:49  <Samu> from 100% to 0% it broke down 24 times
18:40:08  <Samu> let me time how long it takes to go from 100% to 0%, brb
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18:42:50  <Samu> @calc 65535 / 80
18:42:50  <DorpsGek> Samu: 819.1875
18:42:57  <Samu> meh, 819 days
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18:45:09  <Samu> 2 years, 4 months, i think
18:45:26  <Samu> @calc 2 * 12 * 30 + 4 * 30
18:45:26  <DorpsGek> Samu: 840
18:45:33  <Samu> yeah... seems to be that
18:53:53  <supermop> Wolf01: presumable it would just fall back to whatever gets first defined then
18:54:38  <supermop> like if you disable all default houses, and have your first house from 1950, 2nd in 1960, etc
18:55:08  <supermop> you can still start a game in 1500, just all the houses will be the 1950 one (theater 'bug')
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18:58:26  <Wolf01> I think it crashes or do weird things, cities expect a ROADTYPE_ROAD:SUBTYPE_NORMAL which is 0:0
18:58:51  <Samu> holy crap, trAIns is upgrading from monorail to maglev, it's that time again, but he got 500 trains, crazy
18:59:08  <Samu> upgrading one at a time is kinda slow
19:01:13  <Samu> down to 6 trains, what a crazy amount if irresponsibility
19:01:55  <Samu> of*
19:09:47  <supermop> Wolf01 i guess its a matter of making it more flexible in its expectations?
19:10:05  <Wolf01> Yes, but I lack of ideas
19:10:29  <supermop> or make it possible to redefine but not disable ROAD
19:10:56  <supermop> it seems like road types could have a property "is town road"
19:10:58  <Wolf01> The problem to redefine road is that you can make it incompatible with road
19:10:59  <Wolf01> :P
19:11:14  <supermop> if =1 town builds it
19:11:57  <supermop> if there are 16 that =1 maybe town still just builds the first, but any others so built will still get houses etc
19:12:47  <Wolf01> Yes, that could be an idea, when a town is found it choses randomly between those =1 and builds that one for the rest of the game
19:13:46  <Eddi|zuHause> i would propose that a town reruns that check regularly, and can pick a new roadtype to build once more get available
19:13:56  <supermop> additionally the townroad value could be not binary, but 0-7 or 0-255
19:14:23  <Eddi|zuHause> yeah, an automatic ranking, or grf author can provide one
19:14:27  <supermop> and 0 = town doesn't building
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19:14:57  <supermop> else, town builds either the lowest (or maybe highest) value available
19:15:29  <Eddi|zuHause> town growth algorithm might want to replace existing roads with a new type
19:15:59  <supermop> if two are equal it either picks at random or based on order in which defined
19:16:15  <Eddi|zuHause> it should be deterministic
19:16:21  <supermop> sure
19:16:29  <supermop> that's fine by me
19:17:04  <supermop> author doesn't provide a value it gets 1 or whatever automatically
19:17:28  <supermop> or gets the value of its place order in definition
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19:18:33  <Rybeast> Hello! Sorry to be here again. Game failed to save - compressor initialisation failure - ideas?
19:19:43  <Samu> which compressor?
19:20:26  <Rybeast> It didn't say. JUst said game failed to save - compressor initialisation failure
19:21:17  <Samu> hmm, does it have write access? :(
19:21:36  <Samu> gonna check what causes that error
19:21:39  <Rybeast> it's the only time it's failed to save at all :(
19:22:18  <Rybeast> I've just force quit the game and re-opened, but it says the save file has an error? 'Lilbizma returned error code'
19:22:37  <Borg> % git grep -E '.*init.*failure.*'
19:22:38  <Borg> %
19:22:40  <Borg> well....
19:23:02  <Borg> I dont see such an error
19:23:19  <andythenorth> how about authors just don't disable ROAD?
19:23:23  <andythenorth> unless it's intended
19:23:27  <andythenorth> no guards, no checks
19:23:32  <andythenorth> I can 'break' all industries if I want
19:23:37  <andythenorth> nothing in spec stops m
19:23:39  <andythenorth> me
19:24:12  <Rybeast> It ran until 2040 if that is worth anything?
19:24:24  <Samu> okay it failed to initialize lzma, that's something
19:24:31  <Samu> doo bee doo, brb
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19:24:59  <andythenorth> unix not lisp
19:25:52  <Samu> if (lzma_easy_encoder(&this->lzma, compression_level, LZMA_CHECK_CRC32) != LZMA_OK) SlError(STR_GAME_SAVELOAD_ERROR_BROKEN_INTERNAL_ERROR, "cannot initialize compressor");
19:26:22  <Rybeast> Pardon?
19:26:31  <frosch123> if no ROAD, towns cannot build road, game does not start
19:26:36  <frosch123> same as when no houses are available
19:26:40  <Rybeast> What would have caused it to fail though? AS I say, it's been working the whole way
19:27:22  <supermop> frosch123 that works, but maybe its more fun to have alternatives to road?
19:27:25  <Samu> seems that during compression, something got corrupted?
19:27:40  <Samu> du u have ram issues or ?
19:27:48  <Rybeast> don't think so?
19:28:20  <frosch123> supermop: a different appearance is still ROAD
19:29:36  <Samu> I wish which error it got :(
19:29:43  <Samu> it wasn't the LZMA_OK
19:29:52  <andythenorth> loading a grf without ROAD is a bug
19:30:04  <Samu> LZMA_MEM_ERROR ?
19:30:04  <andythenorth> bug / user error /s
19:30:11  <Samu> LZMA_OPTIONS_ERROR
19:30:22  <Samu> LZMA_PROG_ERROR
19:30:50  <Samu> meh, all i know is that it was not the LZMA_OK, it was one of those 3
19:31:02  <Samu> those 4
19:31:37  <Samu> - LZMA_MEM_ERROR: Memory allocation failed. I suspect it was this
19:31:55  <Samu> buy moar ram
19:32:03  <Samu> run 64-bit of openttd, etc. lol
19:32:18  <Rybeast> it's a brand new MacBook
19:32:22  <Rybeast> only 16 months old
19:32:51  <Samu> oh, i don't have a mac, i guess it could be something else
19:33:56  <Rybeast> :( Got to 2040 and built some amazing lines :/
19:35:28  <andythenorth> supermop: CC is a good idea
19:36:03  <Samu> LZMA_OK: Initialization succeeded. Use lzma_code() to  *                encode your data.
19:36:11  <Samu> LZMA_MEM_ERROR: Memory allocation failed.
19:36:18  <Samu> LZMA_OPTIONS_ERROR: The given compression preset is not  *                supported by this build of liblzma.
19:36:26  <Samu> unlikely to be this one
19:36:38  <Samu> LZMA_UNSUPPORTED_CHECK: The given check type is not  *                supported by this liblzma build.
19:36:55  <Samu> also unlikely, it's using LZMA_CHECK_CRC32
19:36:57  <LordAro> Samu: say something useful instead of listing the enumeration values
19:37:15  <Samu> LZMA_PROG_ERROR: One or more of the parameters have values  *                that will never be valid. For example, strm == NULL.
19:37:26  <Samu> meh, ok LordAro
19:37:50  <Samu> i doubt the stream was null
19:37:55  <Samu> so hmm...
19:38:46  <Rybeast> it's fine I guess. No way I'm going to get the level back, is there?
19:39:03  <LordAro> autosave is usually enabled by default...
19:39:05  <Samu> it failed to compress
19:40:00  <Rybeast> I've looked at the autosave folder - nothing there exept for the same error
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19:40:35  <Samu> maybe lzma for mac is bad? bad library or so? I dunno
19:41:03  <Samu> i dont have a mac to test :( can't help
19:41:52  <Samu> can u open openttd.cfg file
19:41:59  <Samu> seee which savegame_format u got there
19:43:00  <Samu> [misc] savegame_format =
19:43:21  <Samu> if lzma faisl, try zlib
19:43:29  <Samu> savegame_format = zlib
19:43:30  <Samu> like that
19:43:34  <supermop> andythenorth little stripes or signs in cc could easily and discretely tell you who owns the wires, and the way the cc is drawn could help show what type of wires they are
19:43:44  <LordAro> pretty sure you can't change that setting while the game is running
19:43:48  <andythenorth> occasionally LZMA stops working on the mac, in official binaries
19:44:19  <andythenorth> then saves stop
19:44:27  <Rybeast> oh
19:44:28  <Rybeast> OH
19:44:28  <Eddi|zuHause> if only there were a mac maintainer that could look at that kind of issues
19:44:30  <Rybeast> it's back
19:44:33  <andythenorth> and if you don't notice quick enough, all autosaves are corrupt
19:44:45  <Rybeast> one of the autosaves has it all back
19:44:46  <Rybeast> :S
19:44:49  <andythenorth> and screen drawing is borked, black squares everywhere
19:44:58  <andythenorth> doesn't happen in self-compiled builds, or at least not to me
19:45:11  <Rybeast> YES
19:45:15  <Rybeast> THAT'S WHAT HAPPENED
19:45:34  <andythenorth> yes
19:45:39  <LordAro> Eddi|zuHause: yeah, someone with a mac, and familiar with the ottd source
19:45:41  <andythenorth> it happens to my kids games
19:45:42  <LordAro> who could that be
19:45:55  <andythenorth> fonso has a mac
19:46:03  <andythenorth> and peter had one but it broke
19:52:37  <Samu> trAIns is still upgrading rails
19:52:41  <Samu> so slow :(
19:53:16  <EarthlingKira> @Samu so, do you think that breakdowns are fine for high reliability ratings but should happen more often for low reliability ratings?
19:54:11  <Samu> hmm, didn't really test the first part
19:55:12  <Samu> gonna load some old saves I got here
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19:55:18  <Samu> run them for 1 year
19:55:36  <Samu> and compare with 1 year of 1.7.2 for the same savegame
19:56:32  <Samu> ugh, i need to build again, this is gonna take a while again
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20:04:25  <Samu> oho, it built already, this was faster now
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20:12:48  <Samu> i think i need to give it more time, 1 year isn't enough
20:19:44  <Samu> EarthlingKira:
20:19:56  <Samu> top is with your patch, bottom is with 1.7.2
20:20:08  <Samu> reduced breakdowns on both
20:20:36  <Samu> it's almost unnnoticeable
20:21:45  <Samu> the impact of your patch seems like none
20:21:56  <Samu> breakdowns were off before 2051
20:22:27  <Samu> turned them on in 1st jan 2051, tons of aircraft went for autorenew, they were old
20:23:13  <Samu> no breakdowns vs reduced breakdowns, and the graph seems about equal to what it was before 2051
20:23:19  <Samu> after stabilizinh
20:23:40  <Samu> now gonna test with normal breakdowns, brb
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20:38:42  <Samu>
20:38:48  <Samu> refresh
20:39:58  <Samu> for sake of completeness, gonna test without breakdowns :p
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20:53:34  <Samu> done
20:53:36  <Samu>
20:54:53  <Samu> first 2, reduced breakdowns, patch vs 1.7.2
20:55:03  <Samu> middle 2, normal breakdowns, patch vs 1.7.2
20:55:12  <Samu> last 2, no breakdowns, patch vs 1.7.2
20:55:18  <Samu> EarthlingKira:
20:57:45  <supermop> who wants to add stations to nml so I can update mlss?
20:59:37  <andythenorth> GB
20:59:40  <andythenorth> GN even
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21:00:12  <Samu> may have to test other vehicle types, too
21:00:25  <Samu> having dinner atm, afk
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21:16:48  <Samu> back
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21:51:53  <Samu> EarthlingKira:
21:52:11  <Samu> for road vehicles
22:04:27  <EarthlingKira> Thanks for the data and testings!
22:04:52  <EarthlingKira> You only compare the profit, right?
22:05:14  <EarthlingKira> I think breakdowns are most noticable when looking at profits when you do have really busy train tracks
22:05:37  <EarthlingKira> Otherwise their impact on profit is low (with and without my patch)
22:07:30  <EarthlingKira> I'd guess that AI doesn't build routes which are nearly as busy as routes built by humans
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22:26:30  <Samu> hmm
22:27:30  <Samu> i wanted to try put this data in excel to create a graph
22:28:41  <Samu> a reliability of 65535 is the same as 100%
22:29:08  <Samu> every day CheckBreakdown is called, and 80 reliability is lost
22:29:58  <Samu> Chance16I(1, 8, r)
22:30:02  <Samu> wtf this do?
22:30:45  <Samu> road vehicles service interval is a default of 150 days
22:30:58  <Samu> @calc 150 * 80
22:30:58  <DorpsGek> Samu: 12000
22:33:13  <Samu> return (((uint16)r * b + b / 2) >> 16) < a;
22:33:30  <Samu> static inline bool Chance16I(const uint a, const uint b, const uint32 r)
22:38:33  <Samu> @calc (0xffff * 8 + 8 / 2) / (2**16)
22:38:33  <DorpsGek> Samu: 7.99993896484
22:40:51  <Samu> 7 < 1
22:40:53  <Samu> false
22:41:50  <Samu> @calc (0*8+8/2)/(2**16)
22:41:50  <DorpsGek> Samu: 6.103515625e-05
22:42:05  <Samu> english plz
22:42:47  <Samu> 0,00006103515625
22:42:48  <Samu> ah
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22:52:08  <Samu> @calc 8191/65535
22:52:08  <DorpsGek> Samu: 0.124986648356
22:52:21  <Samu> @calc 8192/65536
22:52:21  <DorpsGek> Samu: 0.125
22:53:40  <Samu> @calc 1/8
22:53:40  <DorpsGek> Samu: 0.125
22:53:52  <Samu> :(
22:59:02  <Samu> once every 8 times, add 4 to chance
22:59:11  <Samu> 8 times in this case, 8 days
23:01:17  <Samu> @calc 150 * (1/8)
23:01:17  <DorpsGek> Samu: 18.75
23:01:49  <Samu> oops
23:02:07  <Samu> @calc 150 * 4 * (1/8)
23:02:07  <DorpsGek> Samu: 75
23:02:57  <Samu> @calc 150 * 4 * (1/25) + 150
23:02:57  <DorpsGek> Samu: 174
23:23:01  <Wolf01> 'night
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23:38:29  <Samu> i hate math
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23:50:21  <Rybeast> Hello! I'm back to annoy again. Is it possible to auto-replace for the same vehicle? I'm wanting to replace my Chimeras on the Maglev, but it doesn't seem to let me choose another... I wouldn't mind doing manually, but I'd feel a bit meh by having to do that!
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23:54:50  <ST2> Rybeast: what year you're on? if too advanced, maybe that's the only train available
23:55:22  <ST2> if not using breakdowns, makes no sense replace with same vehicle, even if getting old
23:56:22  <ST2> to replace vehicles, there's a diff setting for that
23:56:28  <ST2> hope it helps ^^
23:57:13  <Rybeast> I'm able to buy the vehicles still, but I'm playing with breakdowns
23:57:23  <Rybeast> what's the setting to replace like with like?
23:58:43  <Alkel_U3> Autorenew in settings
23:58:48  <ST2>  <<-- this 2 close to pointer

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