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11:23:41 <Wolf01> Shunting puzzle 11:36:17 *** frosch123 has joined #openttd 12:28:59 <Wolf01> Mmmh ===T=1======>======2=T===, (1 and 2 are trains, T are triggers, > is junction), I start with 2 trains heading to the junction and need to make them overtake so they can continue, the junction only has space for 1 wagon, the problem with the triggers are that if I make the trains visit the left one by reversing 1 and moving forward 2, the right one one by reversing 2 and moving forawrd 12:28:59 <Wolf01> 1 I win the puzzle XD 12:30:01 <Wolf01> I should remove points if I find trains pass the triggers in reverse 12:40:33 *** Stimrol has joined #openttd 12:47:06 *** Gja has joined #openttd 12:47:47 *** FLHerne has quit IRC 12:49:41 *** FLHerne has joined #openttd 12:56:37 *** FLHerne has quit IRC 12:57:51 *** FLHerne has joined #openttd 13:07:49 *** roidal_ has joined #openttd 13:11:43 *** smoke_fumus has joined #openttd 13:14:39 *** roidal has quit IRC 13:14:56 *** smoke_fumus has quit IRC 13:14:57 *** smoke_fumus has joined #openttd 13:16:08 *** Thedarkb has quit IRC 13:24:27 *** Samu has joined #openttd 13:24:39 <Samu> hello 13:25:05 *** Gustavo6046 has joined #openttd 13:25:33 <Alberth> hola 13:27:33 <frosch123> moi 13:30:47 <Wolf01> Bye, D&D session 13:30:51 *** Wolf01 has quit IRC 13:34:30 <Samu> do you know why DictatorAI log appears to handle trains, but never builds any? 13:38:33 *** smoke_fumus has quit IRC 13:41:42 *** smoke_fumus has joined #openttd 13:43:22 *** Gustavo6046 has quit IRC 13:43:53 *** Thedarkb has joined #openttd 13:47:01 *** Gustavo6046 has joined #openttd 13:51:56 *** FLHerne has quit IRC 13:53:51 *** FLHerne has joined #openttd 14:08:43 *** Snail has joined #openttd 14:24:03 *** supermop has joined #openttd 14:24:15 <supermop> yo 14:26:09 *** supermop has quit IRC 14:32:21 *** Breckett has joined #openttd 14:37:33 <Samu> wow 14:37:49 <Samu> DictatorAI has a bad use of terraform 14:38:08 <Samu> terraforms on open water 14:39:03 <Samu> blocks his own ships 14:41:51 <Samu> Lazy profile is doing better than opportunist and dictator 14:42:15 <Samu> sounds wrong 14:44:00 *** buschwerk has joined #openttd 14:50:05 *** buschwerk has left #openttd 14:53:06 *** Flygon has quit IRC 14:53:39 *** RafiX has joined #openttd 14:54:48 *** Breckett has quit IRC 14:57:47 *** sim-al2 has quit IRC 15:01:07 *** iSoSyS has quit IRC 15:12:16 <Samu> okay, dictator is now ahead of lazy profile 15:22:28 *** Thedarkb has quit IRC 15:57:23 *** RafiX2 has joined #openttd 15:57:43 *** synchris has quit IRC 15:59:02 *** RafiX2 has quit IRC 15:59:23 *** RafiX2 has joined #openttd 16:00:30 *** RafiX2 has quit IRC 16:00:52 *** RafiX2 has joined #openttd 16:01:52 *** RafiX is now known as Guest2303 16:01:52 *** RafiX2 is now known as RafiX 16:03:43 *** Guest2303 has quit IRC 16:04:56 *** Breckett has joined #openttd 16:05:07 *** Breckett has quit IRC 16:06:49 *** RafiX has quit IRC 16:07:01 <Samu> dictatorai wastes most of the time trying to upgrade airports 16:07:07 <Samu> only to fail 16:07:22 <Samu> then repeats shortly after 16:26:18 <Samu> was this a bad patch? https://www.tt-forums.net/viewtopic.php?f=33&t=77246 16:26:29 <Samu> I wanted to hear some opinions 16:26:42 *** Gustavo6046 has quit IRC 16:28:38 *** ToffeeYogurtPots has quit IRC 16:31:00 *** Gustavo6046 has joined #openttd 17:06:11 <Alberth> title doesn't come close to covering the changes that you make? 17:06:51 <Alberth> ie helicopter stuff, aircraft servicing, aircraft range limits 17:15:50 *** iSoSyS has joined #openttd 17:40:29 *** chomwitt has quit IRC 17:47:42 *** Gustavo6046 has quit IRC 17:48:32 *** Gja has quit IRC 17:48:36 *** ZexaronS has joined #openttd 17:50:06 *** sla_ro|master has joined #openttd 17:52:28 <Samu> i see i got a problem 17:53:01 <Samu> i try to do one thing, but then i realize that I have to do more for it to work well 17:54:00 <Samu> then i try to implement everything on the same patch, and the initial titlle may no longer make sense 17:54:23 *** glx has joined #openttd 17:54:23 *** ChanServ sets mode: +v glx 17:55:02 *** Gustavo6046 has joined #openttd 17:55:58 *** Gja has joined #openttd 17:56:37 *** Gja has joined #openttd 17:59:10 <Samu> to make the different aircraft types work with the addition of the new setting, I realised I had to touch servicing code, go to hangar code. I inadvertedly had to touch helicopters afterwards 18:00:45 <andythenorth> frosch123: what you up to? :) 18:00:59 <frosch123> fixing devzone 18:01:19 <andythenorth> :o 18:01:20 *** Gustavo6046 has quit IRC 18:01:20 <andythenorth> thanks 18:01:24 * andythenorth is playing tanks 18:01:34 *** Gustavo6046 has joined #openttd 18:01:48 <frosch123> read the nginx beginner tutorial 18:01:51 <frosch123> then changed stuff 18:01:54 <frosch123> seems to work :p 18:02:51 *** Gustavo6046 has quit IRC 18:03:50 *** andythenorth has quit IRC 18:04:29 *** andythenorth has joined #openttd 18:05:31 <Samu> at the same time, I really wanted to solve a long standing problem with helicopters: service at helipads versus breakdowns. Since I was touching servicing code, and go to hangar, I was like "why not fix this too?" 18:05:38 <Samu> so there you have it... 18:06:28 <Eddi|zuHause> changing stuff from the tutorial is the most difficult thing 18:06:31 <Samu> there is service that doesn't require engine replacing and a service that does, I had to differentiate 18:06:54 <Samu> due to service at helipad setting being a headache 18:08:14 <Samu> Alberth: other than the patch having a bad title, what u think about it as a whole 18:09:58 *** Gustavo6046 has joined #openttd 18:10:33 <Alberth> it's normal that you find other spots once you start digging 18:11:29 <Alberth> then you decide if it belongs in the same patch, or it must be a new patch 18:12:07 <Alberth> For trunk, typically you would make a new patch (a new commit) if you change some other thing. 18:12:47 <Alberth> tbh, I have no idea what "as a whole" is, it seems a random collection of aircraft fixes 18:13:14 <Alberth> fix/changes perhaps 18:14:35 <Samu> the idea for that patch was to really disable large aircraft landing on airports with short runway. 18:14:56 <Samu> i thought that maybe this would "help" players 18:15:36 <Samu> if the aircraft is not avaliable to purchase at a small airport hangar, they are being "helped" 18:15:59 <Samu> or if they try to put an order on a small airport, it just doesn't accept it 18:19:03 <Samu> i like to say this feature is similar to railway vs electrified railway 18:21:35 <Samu> "the whole collection of fixes" is what's killing it, right :( 18:27:33 <Samu> I will try to separate everything into small patches once I get back 18:27:46 <Alberth> if that's "the whole", then yes, it's too large 18:28:03 *** Stimrol has quit IRC 18:28:17 <Alberth> patch shoudn't do more than what the label on the box says :) 18:29:17 <Alberth> as for the other parts, I have no clue; I never played with range limits 18:29:38 <Alberth> no idea how it works and what its problems are or are not 18:29:42 *** Wormnest has joined #openttd 18:30:57 <Alberth> tbh I am not sure your patch counts as helping; you're killing a game mechanic 18:31:03 *** roidal_ has quit IRC 18:31:21 <Samu> i remember that I have savegames ready to show those issues 18:31:31 <Samu> but not on this house 18:31:46 <Alberth> ie it's possible to land a large aircraft in a small airport, but it comes with a risk 18:32:12 <Alberth> a player should imho weigh that advantages against the risks, and decide 18:32:21 <Alberth> the patch makes the decision for him 18:32:28 *** chomwitt has joined #openttd 18:32:35 <Samu> yes, but aircraft crashes setting could be disabled 18:32:50 <Alberth> yes, the risk is 0 then 18:33:04 <Samu> the risk is gone, and now players can abuse big planes on small airports :( 18:33:50 <Alberth> yep, just as people can disable breakdowns, use newgrfs that allow trains running on all track types, level the netire terrain, and lots of other things 18:34:32 <Alberth> simple solution is not to play with people that are not compatible with your preferences 18:35:00 <Alberth> trying to change people is mostly wasted effort 18:35:18 <Samu> wanted to enforce the differentiation :( 18:37:19 <Samu> there is currently no middle option to setup a server where ppl have no aircraft crashes 18:37:30 <Samu> and still use the correct aircraft sizes 18:37:52 <Samu> it feels like something is amiss 18:38:18 <Samu> so I went ahead with this patch, to offer that possibility :| 18:39:59 <Samu> i could setup max station size up to 5x5 tiles,, which would completely disable large airports, and intending a server with small airports only. Naturally, I want ppl to use small airplanes, but with aircraft crashes disabled, they would end building large planes :( 18:40:08 <Samu> there's a lack of flexibility here 18:40:44 <Alberth> it may be simpler to make a newgrf that disables the small airport 18:41:25 <Samu> you meant large airports? 18:43:49 <Samu> sorry, I have to go... be back later. tc 18:44:08 *** Samu has quit IRC 18:48:23 *** iSoSyS has quit IRC 18:57:53 <andythenorth> this is weird https://bugs.openttd.org/task/6663 19:16:51 <frosch123> it's the old thing 19:17:09 <frosch123> secondary industries close after 5 years of no service 19:17:29 <frosch123> if they are all spawned at the same time (e.g. game start), they all close at the same time 19:17:39 <frosch123> it's more extreme on huge maps 19:17:45 <frosch123> blame huge maps 19:34:07 <Borg> or! 19:34:12 <Borg> use my gamescript ;) 19:39:03 *** Supercheese has joined #openttd 19:46:01 *** Thedarkb has joined #openttd 20:05:18 <Eddi|zuHause> that's why i suggested a long time ago that there should be "inactive" areas that a player never touched, and the shutdown counter there is halted 20:12:19 <Borg> nah... 20:12:23 <Borg> its ok.. in my opinion 20:12:30 <Borg> that would make game too much static 20:12:45 <Borg> its already become kind static.... if you serve industries right 20:12:48 <andythenorth> industry regions would be really nice 20:12:53 <andythenorth> dunno why 20:13:14 *** Suprcheese has joined #openttd 20:13:15 <andythenorth> dumb proposal: randomise some bits per town 20:13:21 <andythenorth> use them for industry stuff 20:13:26 <andythenorth> including closure 20:13:31 <Borg> well... leave that to GS? 20:13:38 <andythenorth> dunno, maybe 20:13:47 <Borg> also.. I wonder who choosed Squi... whatever.. as OpenTTD GS.... 20:13:47 <andythenorth> problem is Only One GS 20:13:56 <Eddi|zuHause> there are random bits for towns, it's called town name 20:14:04 <andythenorth> "GS can fix it" is pretty limited IRL 20:14:10 <andythenorth> it's a nice theory 20:14:20 <Eddi|zuHause> Borg: i think it was TrueBrain 20:14:33 <Eddi|zuHause> with a "... this is not negotiable" 20:14:34 <frosch123> Borg: there are essentially only lua and squirrel. and lua is terrible 20:15:07 <Borg> LUA is terrible? 20:15:11 <Borg> are you fucking kidding me? 20:15:20 <Borg> I see LUA superrior to GS 20:15:28 <Borg> I mean squirrel.. ;P 20:17:55 *** Supercheese has quit IRC 20:17:55 *** Suprcheese is now known as Supercheese 20:19:02 *** Snail has quit IRC 20:21:24 <Borg> learning GS.. I noticed that OpenTTD programmers.. love OO.. to the extent..... 20:22:39 *** Supercheese has quit IRC 20:30:19 *** Thedarkb has quit IRC 20:31:44 *** sla_ro|master has quit IRC 20:35:36 <LordAro> i'm not convinced lua was a viable option at the time 20:36:02 <LordAro> Borg: OO comes with squirrel, it's not a OTTD thing 20:39:50 *** Gustavo6046 has quit IRC 20:39:56 *** Thedarkb has joined #openttd 20:40:34 *** Gustavo6046 has joined #openttd 20:47:03 <Borg> LordAro: I know. but.. its so abused in GS.. ;) in my opinion 20:47:26 <Eddi|zuHause> certainly OO is an invention by openttd... nobody else ever did it, and openttd is pure OO 20:47:54 <Eddi|zuHause> *hint*: all the statements above are false 20:50:41 <LordAro> Borg: i'd imagine you feel the same way about java 21:01:11 <andythenorth> python? o_O 21:14:22 <Borg> LordAro: yeah... Java.. ugh 21:14:32 <Borg> andythenorth: python is a laught. if we speak about OO.. 21:14:51 <andythenorth> such objects 21:15:10 *** Thedarkb has quit IRC 21:20:57 *** Alberth has left #openttd 21:39:47 *** Borg has quit IRC 21:58:23 *** andythenorth has left #openttd 22:05:28 <Eddi|zuHause> not every usage of objects is automatically OO 22:11:15 *** Gustavo6046 has quit IRC 22:11:39 *** Gustavo6046 has joined #openttd 22:19:02 *** Samu has joined #openttd 22:19:19 <Samu> hi Wormnest 22:19:40 <Samu> i reported a crash, did you see it 22:19:46 <Samu> wondering what happened 22:20:19 <Wormnest> Hi Samu, yeah I saw I know what I need to change just don´t have a lot of time atm 22:21:41 <Samu> the assertion failed 22:22:28 <Wormnest> Yes, I think although very rare its possible at that place for an engine to become invalid 22:22:56 <Wormnest> This was still part of the original nocab I think 22:23:53 <Samu> oh, vehicles expire is enabled 22:23:58 <Samu> i've enabled it lately 22:24:07 <Samu> so maybe that could be the cause 22:24:13 <Samu> airports also expire 22:24:24 <Samu> well, only the small airport though 22:25:23 <Wormnest> Yes as far as I can see it´s like because some engine expired but ai should handle that 22:25:44 <Samu> i've been messing around with AIs whom I've spent less time with 22:26:11 <Samu> have you ever seen DictatorAI build trains in your tests? 22:26:39 <Wormnest> I think so 22:27:08 <Samu> strange, i never was able to see trains 22:27:41 <Samu> the log shows that it's dealing with wagons and engines, but then... I see nothing built 22:27:47 *** Cubey has quit IRC 22:28:00 <Wormnest> But I can´t say I really remember details of any past ai tests 22:29:25 <Samu> I've been also trying to understand what is BorkAI doing with all that town cache 22:30:51 <Samu> dictatorAI has airport upgrading. It's was the first time I Saw an AI build a intercontinental airport 22:31:06 <Samu> but he risks too much 22:31:21 <Samu> demolishes the old airport to plant the new 22:31:46 <Samu> fails most of the time, I'm surprised it still rebuilds the previous airport 22:32:03 <Samu> on fail 22:33:15 <Samu> When will wormAi get road or ship support? :p 22:33:24 <Wormnest> WormAI has upgrading of airports too 22:33:43 <Samu> oh, never seen intercontinental 22:33:45 <Wormnest> Whenever I have time and feel like doing it :p 22:33:49 <Samu> the largest 22:34:06 <Wormnest> Maybe it doesn´t do that one, can´t remember 22:34:12 <Samu> 9x11 tiles 22:34:42 <Wormnest> In most cases you won´t need one that big anyway 22:34:52 <Samu> dictatorai really is insane regarding terraform 22:35:10 <Samu> for that intercontinental airport, he leveled a whole mass of land on water 22:35:15 <Samu> i can't imagine the costs 22:36:15 <Samu> well, for ship support, I suggest looking at NoNoCAB code :p 22:36:20 <Wormnest> as long as you don´t have infrastructure costs you will earn it back fast 22:37:58 <Samu> for road, i would say mogulai for industries, it gave me the idea it's smart and fast enough 22:39:23 <Samu> for town, I'm not sure yet. AroAI always seem to leave a good impression, but... there seems to be no perfect bus ai 22:40:12 <Samu> cluelessplus is ultra slow... 22:40:47 <Samu> what do u think it's best? 22:44:58 *** ToffeeYogurtPots has joined #openttd 22:48:32 <Wormnest> Well my plan for adding ships is indeed to use part of nonocab but ofcourse with different decision making for how to select a route 22:49:09 <Wormnest> What ai is best also depends on the settings. I don´t think there´s one ai that always performs best 22:53:18 <Samu> this new AI, LuDiAI is quite efficient at doing buses, but... he's a cheater, not fair to count it on 22:53:47 <Samu> station spreading, to increase coverage 22:56:03 <Samu> i'm not sure what to say about Convoy. it's one of the AIs i don't usually pay attention, will take a closer look at the things he does 23:01:15 <Wormnest> That´s not cheating, it´s allowed. I do it too sometimes 23:05:24 <Samu> i think i should start a bus competition ai one day, lol 23:05:33 <Samu> clear up my doubts about the issue 23:06:18 <Samu> problem will be how to prevent ais from building trucks 23:16:43 *** sim-al2 has joined #openttd 23:16:55 *** frosch123 has quit IRC 23:20:13 *** Thedarkb has joined #openttd 23:34:19 *** tokai|noir has joined #openttd 23:34:19 *** ChanServ sets mode: +v tokai|noir 23:41:13 *** tokai has quit IRC 23:42:07 *** Wormnest has quit IRC 23:44:02 *** itsme^ has joined #openttd 23:45:29 *** Flygon has joined #openttd 23:53:43 *** itsme^ has left #openttd