Log for #openttd on 30th January 2018:
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08:17:56  <andythenorth> road, elrd, dirt
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09:08:19  <peter1138> scalextric
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09:18:01  <Arveen> lime scale, rust, ground in dirt
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16:29:17  <Samu> hello
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16:47:51  <eickert2000> Hallo
16:48:35  <eickert2000> Spricht hier jemand Deutsch?
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17:21:39  <frosch123> evening mammals
17:22:02  <LordAro> quak
17:26:03  <Samu> dang it, i need a super strong single-core cpu for 15x 250k ops AIs
17:26:09  <Samu> recommend me something
17:30:42  <Samu> the mouse barely moves :(
17:31:26  <Samu> looking for openttd optimizer expert
17:34:14  <Samu> @calc 250000 * 15
17:34:14  <DorpsGek> Samu: 3750000
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17:48:37  <Samu> unspectatable
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18:04:24  <Samu> hi Wormnest
18:05:11  <Wormnest> Hi samu
18:06:04  <Samu> you can try starting wormai in this savegame
18:06:10  <Samu> he will build weird bridges
18:06:22  <Samu> it*
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18:08:20  <Wormnest> I will have a look at it later. Not much time atm.
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18:11:40  <Wolf01> o/
18:13:17  <Samu> is this a bug or a feature request?
18:13:25  <Samu> or a patch?
18:13:35  <Samu> i never know which topic fits better
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18:17:27  <LordAro> Samu: probably bug
18:19:31  <Samu> i see, thx
18:19:37  <Samu> submited it as bug
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19:26:51  <Wolf01> Where is the north?
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19:31:26  <Rubidium> with andy
19:32:56  <frosch123> cat was hungry
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19:42:02  <Wolf01> Mmmh, I just updated my ratt branches for the flags, no-houses and no-junctions... I would merge them all and add no-tunnelbridges too :P
19:43:22  <supermop_work> do it
19:43:46  <supermop_work> no junctions would be useful for chairlifts
19:44:17  <Wolf01> I could sneak push that, so andy won't know and he will be happy when will find it :D
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19:47:23  <Wolf01> Commit message "added stuff"
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19:58:33  <andythenorth> o/
20:01:23  <Wolf01> Here he is!
20:02:06  <andythenorth> lo
20:02:16  <Wolf01> <- eddi, finally somebody added it, but not with the PRR livery :P
20:03:31  <andythenorth> Wolf01: so Bugatti Chiron
20:03:38  <Wolf01> andythenorth: what do you think about no-houses and no-junctions flags?
20:03:54  <andythenorth> I think no-houses is an easy win
20:04:05  <andythenorth> no-junctions is contentious, and should be a branch and tested
20:04:13  <andythenorth> but I don't really care about either :)
20:04:24  <andythenorth> "I don't really care" is great basis for deciding :P
20:05:09  <Wolf01> No-houses is ready, no-junctions is useful for a niche of types
20:06:28  <Wolf01> I could publish the no-junctions branch so you can test it, the problem is that taking one flag at time shares the flag value, so in one branch a grf could have no-houses and the other no-junctions
20:07:02  <Wolf01> Or we could reserve the flag positions
20:07:30  <Wolf01> So no-houses = 2, no-junctions = 3
20:07:39  <Wolf01> (flag bit)
20:08:39  <andythenorth> I think no-houses is a no-brainer
20:08:45  <andythenorth> and should be merged, and nml support provided
20:09:00  <andythenorth> it will have...interesting consequences
20:09:18  <andythenorth> allows manipulating town growth
20:12:52  <Wolf01> The only thing about the no-houses is that works only for road, tram is already unable to support houses
20:13:18  <andythenorth> hmm
20:13:33  <Wolf01> I didn't merge it because of this
20:14:50  <andythenorth> I don't see any problem there
20:14:55  <andythenorth> just needs specific documentation
20:15:13  <Wolf01> So merge?
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20:23:23  <andythenorth> I think so
20:23:38  <andythenorth> I'll need to do NML support
20:23:47  <andythenorth> but I don't think I'll get to that tonight
20:27:36  <andythenorth> also, bool flags can be added to trunk incrementally
20:27:37  <andythenorth> as needed
20:33:30  <andythenorth> I merged ottd trunk in just now
20:38:13  <Wolf01> Ok, I was trying to figure out why I got so many merges
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20:40:46  <Wolf01> BTW, I added projects/.vs to ignores as I'm tired to reset the branches every time I need to switch
20:41:41  <supermop_work> andythenorth: no junctions is ropeways
20:41:45  <supermop_work> ?
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20:44:55  <Wolf01> And proper pipes too, bidirectional pipes with a lot of capacity and no problems about collisions
20:49:00  <Wolf01> IIRC you can only set flags with newgrfs, not unset them?
20:49:38  <Wolf01> The idea was to make trams default with no-houses and unset it if really wanted
20:52:01  <supermop_work> also highways, industrial roads,
20:52:27  <Wolf01> You set that on the newgrf, base trams are builtin
20:53:42  <Wolf01> Need some more tests on the no-houses branch with a well crafted grf
20:53:50  <andythenorth> I would just leave trams as 'no houses'
20:54:03  <andythenorth> the flag could be 'invert default house behaviour'
20:54:12  <andythenorth> but I don't think tram tracks need to build houses
20:54:25  <Wolf01> Never say never
20:54:26  <andythenorth> and I don't care about supporting esoteric stuff
20:55:02  <andythenorth> 'invert' wouldn't be the first weird newgrf flag :)
20:56:23  <Wolf01> Currently is ROAD,ELRD have houses, you can set no-houses with a grf; RAIL,ELRL no-houses, can you unset it?
20:58:06  <andythenorth> yes
20:58:10  <andythenorth> the flag can just invert
20:58:19  <andythenorth> newgrf has lots of weird stuff
20:58:22  <Wolf01> Ok, then is a no-problem
20:58:23  <andythenorth> this one doesn't bother me
20:58:36  <andythenorth> set the flag to invert the default
20:59:16  <andythenorth> compared to vehicle cargo stuff, it's totally sane
20:59:22  <Wolf01> But I don't think trams are able to support houses even without that flag
21:00:10  <Wolf01> So for trams is useless
21:01:47  <Wolf01> A bit of test won't be a waste anyway, maybe we could even merge it in a week
21:02:21  <andythenorth> we could patch towns to grow along tram tracks
21:02:26  <andythenorth> but that seems TMWFTLB to me :)
21:05:22  <Wolf01> Prepare a grf with 2 roads and 2 trams, both with one flag set, so 4 cases
21:05:51  <Wolf01> Also I should learn how to grf so I can do it by myself...
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21:07:06  <andythenorth> example roadtypes is included with nml repo
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21:10:37  <supermop_work> Wolf01: take unspooled code, it's pretty short
21:10:56  <supermop_work> or tell me how to set the flags
21:11:18  <Wolf01> It's like the no level crossings
21:15:42  <Wolf01> Mmmh I have py 3.6
21:19:01  <supermop_work> is no junctions 'no junctions with other types' or 'no junction even with self'?
21:19:22  <Wolf01> No junctions with self
21:19:29  <supermop_work> nice
21:19:40  <Wolf01> As to make a junction with other types you need a junction with self
21:19:55  <supermop_work> good for ropes then
21:20:18  <Wolf01> At least until $someone will find a way to put 4 different types of roadbits on the same tile :D
21:20:36  <supermop_work> i'd like a no junctions flag for railtpes
21:24:11  <supermop_work> need to make a log flume grf
21:24:22  <andythenorth> py3.6 should be fine
21:24:25  <supermop_work> no junctions, no houses,
21:24:53  <supermop_work> only logs allowed, logs have 0 TE and HP when loaded
21:25:20  <supermop_work> so they can't flow uphill
21:25:33  <Wolf01> Nice
21:26:14  <supermop_work> unloaded logs are invisible and have high HP to
21:26:27  <supermop_work> run back up to the top
21:26:59  <Wolf01> Invisible is bad
21:27:44  <supermop_work> else just sell all logs at bottom of hill and buy new at top
21:28:10  <Wolf01> Need automatic purchase and sell of vehicles
21:28:19  <supermop_work> LogAI
21:29:04  <supermop_work> new orders: goto depot (sell)
21:31:03  <supermop_work> getting into territory of pipes as pipes instead of pipes as roads or rails
21:33:08  <Wolf01> Maybe in future
21:33:22  <Wolf01> Very maybe and in a very remote future
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21:34:53  <Wolf01> But I was thinking if we could use NRT to troll a bit the web on 1st april release
21:35:12  <Wolf01> Needs a lot of graphics
21:36:23  <Wolf01> Also it would be cool to have the real NRT on 1st april release
21:36:46  <Wolf01> But it's sci-fi
21:37:44  <supermop_work> what else do you need, graphic wise?
21:39:10  <Wolf01> Small ships, small trains, small rvs, use NRT to fake 2 tracks on same tile, 2 ships on same tile and 2 roads on same tile
21:40:35  <supermop_work> two roads?
21:40:40  <Wolf01> Yep
21:40:57  <supermop_work> surely none of this is needed in base set?
21:41:18  <supermop_work> like two parallel roas?
21:41:22  <Wolf01> Yes
21:41:35  <Wolf01> A sort of highway
21:42:02  <supermop_work> i guess that could be a 'micro scale' grf set
21:42:07  <Wolf01> BTW I think it's easier to do it with photoshop
21:42:28  <Wolf01> Yes, it could be released on bananas on 2nd april :P
21:43:00  <Wolf01> But only if NRT hits trunk, which is impossible in current state
21:43:06  <supermop_work> but using nrt to create novel scale tricks doesn't seem like necessary 'launch title' to me
21:43:53  <supermop_work> in terms of graphics needed to make nrt usuable in trunk, i am thinking gui sprites? (i think we have all of these)
21:44:32  <Wolf01> There are some serious bugs I need to address (the first one is the impossibility to build trams in scenario editor
21:44:54  <supermop_work> and if there is any new road or tram type that gets added to base sets
21:45:05  <supermop_work> what's the SE problem?
21:45:16  <Wolf01> Also I don't think the roadtypes dropdown is working correctly now (it should be fixed with the SE bug too)
21:45:22  <supermop_work> (also can't build rails in SE...)
21:46:17  <supermop_work> i think allowing towns to build multiple road types, or upgrade their own roads (during reconstruction?)
21:46:22  <supermop_work> would be neat
21:46:51  <Wolf01> There's a branch which is trying to address this bug, but it need some revision by $some-more-capable-dev
21:47:40  <Wolf01> Yes, there are some features missing, like the road used by towns and the ability to upgrade it
21:48:03  <supermop_work> but arguably it can go to trunk before then
21:51:08  <andythenorth> I think it's feature-complete for actual gameplay
21:51:12  <andythenorth> SE needs work
21:51:14  <andythenorth> and bugs
21:54:17  <Wolf01> <- we should extensively test this branch to see if introduces strange bugs
21:54:47  <andythenorth> what does that branch do, remind me? o_O
21:55:09  <Wolf01> Fixes SE, fixes availability of roadtypes on the dropdown
21:55:32  <Wolf01> Both were related
21:55:45  <andythenorth> is it safe to merge to RATT branch?
21:55:56  <andythenorth> it's not trunk, I'd rather let players test it ASAP
21:55:56  <Wolf01> It needs testing
21:56:39  <andythenorth> we could...
21:56:50  <andythenorth> make a 'candidate' branch, from road-and-tram-types
21:57:03  <andythenorth> then merge cbvi branch into ratt branch
21:57:07  <andythenorth> and let players loose on it
21:57:18  <Wolf01> Just use that branch, it's synced
21:57:23  <andythenorth> ratt gets built by CF, I don't want to be building binaries for people
21:57:47  <andythenorth> and I don't want to ask Truebra*in for more favours :)
21:58:07  <andythenorth> I don't trust my own testing, I miss stuff often
21:58:16  <Wolf01> Me too
21:58:48  <andythenorth> let's review tomorrow :)
21:58:49  <Wolf01> We could merge it, pray, fix the bugs which players find
21:59:18  <andythenorth> if we fork a clean 'candidate' branch, we don't have to de-merge anything later
21:59:26  <andythenorth> reverting branch merges is fine, but requires care
21:59:50  <Wolf01> We'll see it tomorrow, now bed ;)
21:59:57  <andythenorth> if I was working alone, I'd dump everything to ratt
21:59:59  <andythenorth> gung-ho
22:00:13  <andythenorth> but I try to be more careful with other people's time :P
22:00:17  <Wolf01> :P
22:00:38  <andythenorth> ok bed
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22:00:43  <Wolf01> 'night
22:00:47  <andythenorth> bye
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