Log for #openttd on 13th February 2018:
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02:07:34  <Andy1233> Ok, so wasnt expecting this to still be going
02:08:09  <Andy1233> guys, is there any way to force a save or scenario to load without the GRF it's missing
02:08:10  <Andy1233> >
02:08:12  <Andy1233> ?
02:09:08  <Andy1233> Of all things it is "town-buildings.grf" - 42650104
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02:28:30  <Andy1233> anyone? I have a save and a scenario that are missing "town-buildings.grf - 42650104" GRF, It's not appearing in the online finder and I can't find it manually. Can I edit the scenario with a new GRF for building or brute force it not to look for the new one?#
02:28:57  <Eddi|zuHause> yes. but we don't talk about it
02:29:23  <Eddi|zuHause> lots of things will probably break if you remove a newgrf
02:30:18  <Eddi|zuHause> you'll have to enable the secret "scenario_developer" setting
02:33:33  <Andy1233> why would it now revert back to default town buildings?
02:34:42  <Eddi|zuHause> it might
02:35:02  <Eddi|zuHause> but there might be existing buildings with invalid layouts and stuff
02:35:33  <Eddi|zuHause> and the grf might have changed other things
02:35:54  <Eddi|zuHause> there's a reason we have hidden this setting
02:36:39  <Andy1233> console command?
02:38:30  <Eddi|zuHause> i've already said more than i should
02:40:47  <Andy1233> lol
02:41:18  <Andy1233> Why would you hide it? Just have a massive disclaimer
02:41:40  <Andy1233> set newgrf_developer_tools 1
02:42:02  <Andy1233> Thank you, at least the map is loading...only took an hour
02:45:03  <Andy1233> As some feedback...I find it hard to believe that if there's a missing GRF there's not a way to revert it to a basic in built one...especially if the ID is working and would allow it to be compared to another GRF....missing XXXXXX.GRF is a train but is missing so just use YYYYYYY.GRF instead...yeah the design will be different but would at least allow the scenario to run
02:46:03  <Eddi|zuHause> Andy1233: we used to have a giant disclaimer, but people generally clicked through that without thinking about it
02:46:19  <Eddi|zuHause> Andy1233: and grfs can change way more of the core game mechanics than just the look of the train
02:46:51  <Eddi|zuHause> Andy1233: it's impossible to know what a GRF did if that GRF is missing, so we cannot always detect how to revert the changes to a valid game state
02:47:41  <Eddi|zuHause> Andy1233: if you're "lucky" it just crashes right away, but most of the times you don't notice how broken the game is until like 10 to 20 years later, when it's impossible to fix even if you found the newgrf again
02:48:59  <Eddi|zuHause> Andy1233: basically we were drowning in hard to reproduce bug reports from people ignoring the disclaimer, so we had to hide the setting
02:51:24  <Andy1233> Ok, thanks for the 'secret' console command anyway
02:56:44  <Eddi|zuHause> Andy1233: just a short list of things that are probably not safe: removing train/truck/whatever sets while you have any trains/trucks/whatevers. removing/adding industry sets. changing the order of station sets
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08:19:37  <vasatko> Hi how can i change bridge layout? A i know, with Action 0, property 0D. But i i dont know what is value (i try string "_0(23)1_" or hexa 02, but not works).
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09:32:05  <Wolf01> o/
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10:53:25  <Samu> hi
11:27:44  <Samu> i just noticed something. AIs appear to be slower in multiplayer servers than in single player
11:28:08  <Samu> seems that their commands "lag"
11:28:35  <Samu> are subject to latency
11:30:48  <peter1138> Just like any client's commands.
11:31:59  <Samu> AIAI pathfinding usually takes 15 days to complete a cycle
11:32:13  <Samu> but in multiplayer it takes about 50 days
11:32:23  <Samu> big difference
11:32:30  <Samu> slows him down too much
11:32:37  <Samu> considering he attempts 100 cycles
11:33:03  <Samu> before giving up
11:33:46  <peter1138> Oh you mean squirrel functions rather than server commands?
11:33:59  <Samu> yes, i guess, squirrel
11:37:29  <Wolf01> Yay, moar lego!
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11:47:48  <Samu> SCC_PREVIOUS_COLOUR this one looks interesting
11:47:57  <Samu> but doesn't work as I was expecting
11:49:08  <Samu> a {PREVIOUS_COLOUR} would be useful in some situations
11:50:24  <Samu> goal text color is defaulted to orange, but as a question message, it's defaulted to black. If i wanted to use the same string
11:50:40  <Samu> which prints a message with something in yellow
11:50:54  <Samu> like STR_BEST_COMPANY_VALUE  : Current most valuable company: {YELLOW}{COMPANY}{ORANGE} (Company {NUM})
11:51:13  <Samu> instead of {ORANGE}, i would use the {PREVIOUS_COLOUR}
11:51:21  <Samu> and it would go back to the default colour
11:51:45  <Samu> Orange in goal text, black in question text
11:51:53  <Samu> do you see what I mean?
11:59:50  <Samu> btw, for percentages, is it better to use {NUM}% or {COMMA}%? there is no consistency in how it's used in the official english.txt
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13:03:42  <Samu> class method is non-static
13:03:49  <Samu> local global_list_old = GSList.AddList(this.global_list);
13:03:54  <Samu> what does that mean? :(
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13:20:16  <Samu> I don't understand lists
13:21:05  <Samu> why does the items from the old list get the same values of the main list if I'm only changing the items of the main list?
13:22:41  <Samu> the old list is a copy of the main list before i made the changes
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13:57:35  <Samu> nevermind, i found a workaround
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14:17:21  <Samu> interesting, bool can have 3 modes in squirrel
14:17:26  <Samu> null, false and true
14:17:35  <peter1138> file not found
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14:24:41  <supermop_work_> Wolf01: updated spool
14:24:51  <Wolf01> +1
14:30:27  <Wolf01> I need a brick separator, now, at least 25 of them and no one shows up
14:32:27  <supermop_work_> went i got that detective office/barbershop one it came with one included
14:32:56  <supermop_work_> i guess they include them with the big sets? when i was a kid you had to order them from the catalog
14:32:58  <Wolf01> Yeah there's one on every >15€ set
14:33:11  <supermop_work_> the old grey one
14:34:03  <Wolf01> The problem is: they are on a box inside a box above the wardrobe... I'll kill myself trying to get that box down
14:34:58  <supermop_work_> you need to wear one around your neck as a pendant at all times
14:34:59  <Wolf01> Shit I forgot to take the cough medicinal
14:35:14  <Wolf01> Yes, I think I'll do so
14:39:45  <supermop_work_> get  a gold one
14:42:02  <supermop_work_> wht's italian for brick?
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15:03:46  <Wolf01> <supermop_work_> wht's italian for brick? <- mattone, for lego is mattoncino (it's  little)
15:04:47  <supermop_work_> is it mattoncina for a female minifig?
15:05:24  <Wolf01> Lol no
15:06:25  <supermop_work_> well lets start a campaign to make it so
15:08:44  <Wolf01> Minifigs are called the same in italian (minifigure)
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16:32:35  <Eddi|zuHause> uhm weird, there was a TF update, but the announcement only talks about macos?
16:34:54  <nielsm> I think that's all it is, too
16:35:22  <nielsm> but maybe it involved changes to some data files common between all builds, so it technically affected other platforms too
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18:00:08  <Wolf01> <Eddi|zuHause> uhm weird, there was a TF update, but the announcement only talks about macos? <- Yes, the code is shared and they fixed some mac os problems
18:06:08  <Samu> how do I check properties of a goal? l
18:06:31  <Samu> company id, rank, or value
18:08:11  <Samu>
18:08:23  <Samu> GSGoal.New
18:08:48  <Samu>
18:11:29  <Samu> for example, before I use GSGoal.SetText
18:11:46  <Samu> I wanted to know if I need to actually update it, how would I do that
18:12:32  <Samu> want to avoid creating the exact same text, avoid an update
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18:36:11  <nielsm> huh, any suggestions why it isn't recognizing my original music set? the filenames and hashes should be right:
18:36:59  <nielsm> oh, because they should _not_ be in a dir named "gm"
18:37:54  <nielsm> while   says "Make sure you have copied the music files from the TTD Disk into the 'gm' folder, NOT the 'data' folder."
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18:49:01  <andythenorth> Wolf01: o/
18:49:19  <andythenorth> we should post an update in NRT thread?  You fixed stuff
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19:01:32  <supermop_work_> andythenorth: i caved and added haul to spool
19:02:06  <andythenorth> I saw :)
19:02:50  <supermop_work_> my road trains are OP wrt HAUL hogs
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19:20:47  <Wolf01> o/ andythenorth, yes if you want, I'm defeated again by fever
19:21:35  <andythenorth> I had that last week
19:21:37  <andythenorth> was ugh
19:22:18  <Wolf01> Also I passed the entire afternoon counting and sorting the parts from the last order... lego gifted a lot of parts this time... like 33 more tiles and 22 more panels without any increased cost
19:22:31  <Wolf01> 1x8 tiles...
19:23:14  <Wolf01> I should have something like 6 or 7€ of gifted parts
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19:33:28  <Samu> there has to be a better way to code this
19:33:36  <Samu> it's becoming hellish to me :(
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19:47:52  <nielsm> yes make a function that tests debug_messages and then logs if it's true, and call that instead
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19:56:25  <Wolf01> learning python the right way
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20:02:01  <frosch123> looks like the chapter on loops
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21:04:44  <Samu> enable autism debug mode
21:05:05  <Samu> can't even follow my debug
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21:50:36  <Wolf01> so they finally might remove it?
21:52:22  <glx> would be nice
21:56:12  <Eddi|zuHause> i believe that when it actually happens
21:57:09  <supermop_work_> it seems like most people in the us do not like DST either, but there is too much inertia to get rid of it now
21:57:12  <Eddi|zuHause> but this vote is a bit too far removed from actually doing anything
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22:05:48  <Wolf01> Also 'night
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