Log for #openttd on 26th March 2018:
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02:05:25  <supermop> Eddi|zuHause: is lack of motivation to draw one of the features of CETS?
02:06:40  <Eddi|zuHause> well i never really had the intention to draw anything. oberhümer drew a few of the prussian engines, but that also dissipated...
02:12:34  <supermop> always sounded like the scope was very large for that set
02:16:52  <supermop> im stalling because i don't want to make a new 9/8 template
02:42:12  <Eddi|zuHause> well, i dabbled a bit in autogenerating/composing some graphics, but i ended being distracted/unmotivated to do really anything at all
02:42:46  <Eddi|zuHause> for reason i'm not really willing to go into here
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02:46:18  <supermop> so thoroughly indoctrinated here - giving notice to quit my job, and i am almost beside myself with regret and guilty feelings
02:47:06  <supermop> even though i find my employer incompetent and frustrating, and continued employment with him to be a professional liability
02:48:20  <supermop> all this shame for breaking a capitalist's heart, and i think of myself and pretty far left
02:48:38  <supermop> but that's american (and new york) work culture for you
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02:51:33  <Eddi|zuHause> well my new boss wanted to impose some strict working hours, or else... and i said "then i choose else"
02:52:28  <Eddi|zuHause> so now i'm on some kind of irregular consulting contract with him, instead of full-time
02:54:16  <supermop> i am full time with this guy, but because he is so disorganized
02:54:33  <supermop> it is hourly and irregular,
02:55:08  <supermop> i generally work 40-45 hours a week, nice that its hourly, but the junior employees will get called off all the time when money is short
02:55:16  <supermop> and not work for a week or two
02:55:47  <supermop> no contract, benefits or health insurance for any of us, so i am lucky i have it through my wife
02:56:11  <supermop> the us system for insurance through job is absurd
02:56:28  <supermop> even if you get good insurance, you are then bound to that employer
02:57:10  <glx> and the medical costs are insane too
02:57:24  <supermop> new job i am taking pay is actually slightly less, but i will have a real contract, and the company has a real staff of other people with steady jobs
02:57:40  <supermop> instead of some weeks only me
02:59:12  <Eddi|zuHause> i've seen these numbers... for european countries you have (per capita) x amount of "private" money and y amount of "tax" money, where x is vastly smaller number, then for america you have y amount of "private" money and y amount of "tax" money.
02:59:25  <Eddi|zuHause> so not only does your system not save any tax money
02:59:41  <Eddi|zuHause> it costs almost double
02:59:55  <Eddi|zuHause> without being any better overall
03:00:26  <glx> everything cost more in their system
03:00:39  <glx> university is almost free in france
03:01:17  <Eddi|zuHause> yeah same here
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03:02:07  <Eddi|zuHause> and they even give you money if your parents are poor
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03:02:32  <Eddi|zuHause> (or have lots of kids)
03:03:59  <supermop> Eddi|zuHause: we are stuck with a system that seemed to look kind of good in like the late 40s and then fell apart
03:04:51  <Eddi|zuHause> on the "bright" side, they're slowly taking the system apart bit by bit here...
03:05:45  <Eddi|zuHause> because "everything is better in america" and "free market" and "small government" and whatever
03:06:10  <supermop> there are a few things better in america:
03:06:12  <glx> same here
03:06:25  <glx> EU is broken
03:06:33  <supermop> ribs
03:06:50  <supermop> maybe that's it?
03:07:02  <glx> instead unifying it creates competition between countries
03:07:09  <supermop> we have good barbecue ribs
03:07:50  <supermop> we have some good music - because our system is so broken it motivates people to make good music
03:08:00  <supermop> so we've got ribs and music
03:08:25  <Eddi|zuHause> is your music "good", or just "average enough to reach large audiences"?
03:09:30  <supermop> Eddi|zuHause: depends, but i'd say that blues, jazz, hip hop, r&b, funk and rock are all significant contributions to world culture
03:09:53  <supermop> but all were catalyzed by shitty conditions here
03:10:06  <supermop> punk i will give to UK and jamaica
03:11:25  <supermop> oysters
03:11:52  <supermop> montauk oysters i do find better
03:12:07  <supermop> so i go 3 things that are better in america so far
03:21:32  <Eddi|zuHause> so, a) i have no interest in oysters, and b) i see that all "your" "good" music is actually by people you forcefully imported and exploited.
03:22:53  <glx> and I'm off, good night
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03:23:33  <Eddi|zuHause> i don't see how "look, slavery wasn't all bad, we got good music out of it" is ever a good sentence to say
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11:51:28  <HeyCitizen> jazz
11:52:14  <nielsm> jukebox
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13:41:54  <supermop_work> Eddi|zuHause: not a sentence i said
13:42:50  <supermop_work> also i think you may have missed that we were arguing the same point
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14:18:05  <Alberth> o/
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15:56:29  <andythenorth> o/
15:56:30  <supermop_work> hi andy
15:57:15  <andythenorth> alright?
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16:06:40  <supermop_work> am i alright?
16:06:51  <supermop_work> i guess as good as any day
16:07:05  <andythenorth> @seen frosch123
16:07:05  <DorpsGek> andythenorth: frosch123 was last seen in #openttd 20 hours, 20 minutes, and 33 seconds ago: <frosch123> i have not touched windows for 10 years, i have no idea why people use it for development at all
16:09:12  <Pikka> o/
16:10:05  <andythenorth> 2 pikkas in a row
16:10:07  <andythenorth> how rare
16:10:13  <andythenorth> what's up Pikka? :)
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16:13:10  <Pikka> right now, intermodal container cars: "realistic" or just boring?
16:13:24  <andythenorth> :o
16:13:29  <andythenorth> that's rather coincidental
16:13:37  <andythenorth> I am working on same thing in UKRS 3
16:13:50  <andythenorth> literally have the buy menu open for them :P
16:14:05  <Pikka> ukrs 3 \o/
16:14:06  <andythenorth> UKRS 3 = Iron Horse 2 :P
16:14:38  <andythenorth> what was the question? o_O
16:15:53  <Pikka> deciding whether to include them at all in notUKRS 3...
16:16:40  <andythenorth> I am doing them in Horse 2
16:16:52  <andythenorth> but they're identical to box cars, except graphics
16:16:57  <andythenorth> same capacity, speed, refit
16:17:08  <andythenorth> horse is mostly about 'pick sprites you like'
16:17:13  <Pikka> hmmm... yes
16:17:35  <Pikka> well that's what I'm thinking... but in that case, why include them unless they're graphically interesting, which theyr're not? :P
16:18:17  <Pikka> I suppose some people might like container trains.
16:19:09  <andythenorth> I like the change between empty / full
16:19:15  <andythenorth> and I can randomise the container colours
16:19:22  <Pikka> true
16:19:43  <andythenorth> I don't bother with any justification for wagon types except 'looks nice' and 'looks different to other types'
16:19:54  <andythenorth> engines....have to fit a role
16:20:11  <Pikka> yes... speaking of which
16:20:35  <Pikka> was no MUs except "metro" in IH a design choice?
16:20:46  <andythenorth> well
16:20:59  <andythenorth>
16:21:18  <andythenorth> for normal trains, I prefer making trains of single unit railcars,
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16:21:46  <andythenorth> but I have added some fast electric things, 2-unit 16/8
16:22:01  <andythenorth> they will have BAD FEATURES to make power cars and coaches when combined
16:22:09  <Pikka> huh
16:22:17  <Pikka> FAD BEACHES
16:22:43  <andythenorth> FAD BEACHES are compulsory
16:23:22  <andythenorth> hmm web page reveals how much I have to draw :P
16:23:25  <andythenorth> hide web page pls
16:23:46  <Pikka> yes
16:24:03  <Pikka> I'm reviving the 10CC concept... 10 locos per set = less to draw.
16:24:13  <andythenorth> yay
16:24:17  <Pikka> but doing them in double zoom = more to draw
16:24:20  <andythenorth> pixels?
16:24:23  <andythenorth> or rendered?
16:24:24  <Pikka> yes
16:24:24  <andythenorth> or both?
16:24:33  <Pikka> 2xez 32bpp hand drawn
16:24:37  <andythenorth> yay
16:25:04  <andythenorth> supporting 1860-2050 is dozy, but I am doing it anyway :P
16:25:11  <andythenorth> so much trains
16:25:14  <Pikka> yep
16:25:22  <Pikka> 10 locos, 1900 - 2000.
16:25:44  <andythenorth> I await with interest :)
16:25:52  <andythenorth> I am not EZ-ing FIRS though :P
16:26:24  <Pikka> oh why not? :P
16:27:21  <andythenorth> almost certainly don't have enough life left :P
16:27:29  <andythenorth> FIRS is nearly 10 years old
16:30:09  <Sacro> Pikka: new ukrs3?
16:31:30  <Pikka> UKRS 0.3... minimise expectations ;)
16:31:53  <andythenorth> so no intermodal? o_O
16:32:01  <andythenorth> and is intermodal also trucks-on-flatcar?
16:32:03  <andythenorth> :P
16:32:07  <Alberth> o/
16:32:11  <Pikka> I suppose yes intermodal... container wagons
16:33:12  <Pikka> even pineapple trains had container wagons, and it was super-TT-style.
16:39:27  <andythenorth> I should make a pineapple train
16:39:36  <Pikka> out of real pineapple?
16:39:44  <andythenorth>
16:39:58  <Pikka> tasty
16:40:02  <andythenorth> QLD
16:40:52  <Pikka> poor old big pineapple... it's looking pretty shabby these days.
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17:06:00  <Wolf01> Moin
17:06:28  <Wolf01> Topic still missing something
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17:15:05  <Wolf01> So, no new issues for NRT, ready for trunk.
17:19:25  <andythenorth> :P
17:20:14  <Pikka> o/
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17:24:30  <andythenorth> HOVS
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17:28:22  <Wolf01> Quak
17:34:05  <frosch123> moi
17:36:13  <LordAro> quak
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17:51:22  <andythenorth> frosch123: so...NotStations? o_O
17:51:34  <andythenorth> I was considering trying to add nml support for stations
17:51:44  <andythenorth> but then I remembered...stations make no sense
17:53:18  <Wolf01> Yeah, a single interface like newobjects to build non-track station tiles
17:54:02  <andythenorth> with access to a list of cargos waiting at the station
17:54:27  <andythenorth> and a conventional action 3, action 2 chain, not whatever it is that stations do
17:54:31  <andythenorth> which I still don't understand
17:56:10  <andythenorth> oh it's prop 0F that I don't understand
17:56:16  <andythenorth>
17:56:43  <andythenorth> and prop 0A
17:56:48  <andythenorth> and most of all prop 09
17:56:53  <andythenorth>
17:59:15  <Pikka> debluncked station spec? :)
18:02:34  <andythenorth> something
18:15:42  <peter1138> hewhat
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18:16:11  <peter1138> stations must've made sense, i mostly made them work...
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18:22:59  <andythenorth> they work, they're just weird :P
18:27:36  <Wolf01> So andythenorth, did you decide what to do after NRT? I did: continue to extend NRT
18:27:50  <andythenorth> ha
18:28:07  <andythenorth> what did you add? o_O
18:28:08  <supermop_work> custom foundations for railtypes
18:28:25  <andythenorth> I have 3 unreleasable vehicle grfs
18:28:32  <andythenorth> so eh, plenty to do :P
18:30:14  <Wolf01> Eh, feature flags until I run off of space, finish the implementation, help frosch (or get frosch help) to turn NRT into BGT
18:31:34  <andythenorth> BGT is interesting
18:31:41  <Wolf01> A lot
18:31:46  <andythenorth> I wonder if we do it, we might find out it wasn't needed
18:31:53  <andythenorth> and the UI problem is...hard :)
18:32:03  <andythenorth> but eh
18:32:14  <andythenorth> how else do we learn anything? o_O
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18:36:19  <supermop_work> i think its probably not needed, but i also feel newobjects are not needed
18:37:00  <andythenorth> and yet if they weren't there...
18:37:04  <andythenorth> we'd need them
18:37:38  <Wolf01> I need newobjects
18:37:49  <Wolf01> I don't use them, but when I don't have them I need them
18:38:01  <andythenorth> they'd distort the station spec otherwise
18:38:11  <andythenorth> we'd have feature requests for stations that were nothing to do with stations
18:38:12  <andythenorth> so eh
18:38:24  <andythenorth> I never use NewObjects though myself
18:38:26  <andythenorth> :P
18:38:47  <andythenorth> ok engine 'types' in Horse, e.g. 'Freight, Heavy Freight, Express' etc
18:39:03  <andythenorth> 'type', 'class', 'role', or 'group' ?
18:40:15  <Pikka> role, I guess...
18:40:18  <andythenorth> good
18:40:20  <andythenorth> I thought same
18:40:23  <andythenorth> thx
18:42:03  <supermop_work> rivet count
18:42:31  <supermop_work> youreally are going to want a 500 rivet locomotive for a rake like that
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18:53:04  <andythenorth> what 'role' are narrow gauge engines? o_O
18:53:10  * andythenorth hasn't thought about that, oops
18:54:26  <andythenorth> uncontroversial: branch, freight, heavy freight, express pax, railcar
18:55:08  <andythenorth> harder to figure out: electric engine (fast, high HP, but low TE); TGV-ish electric unit;  narrow gauge engine
18:55:36  <andythenorth> I need to define the role to automate vehicle expiry :P
19:06:36  * andythenorth hedges
19:06:42  <andythenorth> express_1 and express_2 :P
19:06:54  <andythenorth> display strings can be done later
19:08:56  <Pikka> personally, let the player decide the role? ;)
19:09:53  <andythenorth> yes
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19:10:09  <andythenorth> but I still have to handle model_life property :P
19:11:11  <andythenorth> 'red', 'green' and 'blue' would also work for that
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19:11:28  <Pikka> I don't mind nothing disappearing in IH... otherwise, just make things disappear 10 years after the replacement is introduced? and use "retire early" to make sure players don't build anything that's going to break down before it's life expired.
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19:12:17  <Pikka> that's not looking too bad, hmm? 2x is still pretty pixelly.
19:14:02  <andythenorth> I like the chibi
19:20:00  <andythenorth> lot more detail at that size than 1x
19:23:00  <peter1138> hu
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21:09:17  <andythenorth> also bed
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21:38:12  <orudge> It seems some delightful individual is sending €1 donations to OpenTTD to test stolen PayPal accounts :(
21:38:27  <orudge> Had a large number of donations come through at the weekend, at least one of which has been reported as unauthorised...
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21:39:11  <LordAro> yay
21:39:22  <Wolf01> Oh, that's what I forgot to do! Are 5€ enough?
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21:40:48  <orudge> Wolf01: you don't need to donate anything! But if you do wish to, then €5 is plenty - any donation is appreciated
21:40:55  <orudge> Except donations from stolen PayPal accounts :P
21:41:45  <Wolf01> The only problem is that the donation topic has more donation links than cnet download links :D
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21:55:45  <__ln__> Wolf01: are you using a stolen account too?
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21:56:13  <Wolf01> Yes, mine, it steals money from my bank account
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21:56:38  <Wolf01> Also, bed
21:56:41  <Wolf01> 'night
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