Log for #openttd on 29th March 2018:
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13:47:26  <supermop_work> well transporter mostly drawn
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13:52:06  <Alberth> o/
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13:55:26  <supermop_work_> hi Alberth
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14:07:18  <test12345> @logs
14:07:18  <DorpsGek> test12345:
14:07:27  <test12345> Thanks
14:09:28  <test12345> Hm, wanted to see if there was some more discussion concerning yesterday's question :p
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14:18:15  <test12345>
14:18:23  <test12345> ^ Have you seen this?
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14:37:23  <test12345> May I ask a serious question now -- how can I make a scenario using a heightmap?
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14:39:27  <Alberth> there is "load height map" in the scenario editor
14:40:16  <test12345> I can't find it though. I see a plain terrain
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14:41:31  <Alberth> main menu -> scenario editor -> save icon drop down -> load height map -> enter/click filename -> load   done
14:41:57  <Alberth> did you even check the dropdown menus?
14:43:03  <test12345> I had checked some of them, but not the save icon
14:43:17  <test12345> Sorry
14:43:21  <Alberth> clearly you hadn't :)
14:44:04  <test12345> Anyway, thank you. It works! :-)
14:44:10  <Alberth> ok
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16:56:55  <Wolf01> Moin
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17:08:47  <Wolf01> Nice, I have 42kbps of bandwidth
17:26:26  <Alberth> as long as you don't use it? :)
17:26:50  <Wolf01> It's just enough to let me use irc and telegram
17:27:38  <Alberth> oh, real k bits :(
17:28:21  <Alberth> but yeah, irc works, I started using that at 2400 baud :)
17:28:44  <Wolf01> Took 20 minutes to download 15MB of updates
17:30:45  <Wolf01> But the worst is the lag... like 2 seconds
17:33:10  <RafiX> I know this pain
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17:38:47  <andythenorth> o/
17:39:47  <Wolf01> o/
17:40:05  <Pikka> o/
17:40:08  <RafiX>
17:40:11  <RafiX> wew
17:40:55  <Alberth> o/
17:43:10  <Wolf01> Ha! My speed test is "download test error"
17:43:54  <Wolf01> BTW, ping is 786ms
17:44:07  <RafiX> mine can be even slower
17:44:51  <Wolf01> Usually I have 1.6-2.5 seconds
17:45:01  <andythenorth> Wolf01: so I wondered about industry placement preview
17:45:32  <andythenorth> I suspect it might be slow, as it would need to run the full industry callback chain, for all tiles
17:45:43  <andythenorth> but it's an interesting problem
17:45:46  <DorpsGek> Commit by translators :: r28000 trunk/src/lang/welsh.txt (2018-03-29 19:45:40 +0200 )
17:45:47  <DorpsGek> -Update from Eints:
17:45:48  <DorpsGek> welsh: 7 changes by kazzie
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17:48:27  <Wolf01> Ok, the provider unleashed the hamsters now, back on standard speed/ping
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17:59:28  <Eddi|zuHause> oh i remember the days where i spent a whole day on ISDN downloading one CD
18:02:37  <Eddi|zuHause> i seem to have misconfigured my steam somehow, it schedules uptates for totally random times, instead of downloading them right away
18:02:50  <Eddi|zuHause> which is completely useless
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18:03:06  <Wolf01> Nah, it's doing that for me too
18:03:29  <Eddi|zuHause> but why would it assume that i am somehow less busy in 6 hours?
18:03:40  <Wolf01> Some 1MB updates get scheduled for "tomorrow noon", other 4.5GB updates start immediately
18:03:59  <Wolf01> And I don't have any prioritized game
18:07:22  <andythenorth> so
18:07:26  <andythenorth> I should play OpenTTD
18:07:35  <Eddi|zuHause> WHAT?!?
18:07:47  <Eddi|zuHause> that borders on blasphemy
18:07:52  <andythenorth> but
18:07:59  <andythenorth> I don't have an NRT grf
18:08:03  <ST2> I see a Tanks riot on the horizon xD
18:08:07  <andythenorth> and I have to play NRT
18:08:17  <Eddi|zuHause> test nrt without any nrt grf
18:08:35  <andythenorth> it's a thing
18:14:50  <Wolf01> andythenorth: We need a selection of tiles to show where the industry may be placed, with white/red tiles, if the industry can change shape the tiles might be yellow if they meet an obstacle
18:15:30  <Wolf01> Eh, wallyweb suggested exactly that
18:15:54  <andythenorth> there are some in JGR for the zones things
18:16:04  <andythenorth> like the station catchment tiles, but recoloured
18:16:22  <Wolf01> Yes, I know
18:16:46  <andythenorth> oh we have the red one already for station remove
18:16:54  <andythenorth> so we have 3 colours in core ottd
18:17:27  <Wolf01> We might give it a look together
18:18:27  <andythenorth> I have concerns about performance, but let's not worry about that :D
18:19:23  <Pikka> just make all industries prospecting, problem solved :P
18:19:53  <andythenorth> lateral
18:20:03  <andythenorth> I considered a 1 tile survey camp
18:20:09  <andythenorth> industries prospect near it
18:20:13  <andythenorth> then it closes
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18:33:55  <Eddi|zuHause> Wolf01: i'd much rather have it so you can choose the layout, instead of weird colour games
18:35:36  <Eddi|zuHause> andythenorth: the zoning patch doesn't add colours, it's already done by recoloring in trunk. it just adds an inner highlight rectangle to complement the existing outer one
18:38:44  <andythenorth> choosing the layout might not be as desirable as you think
18:38:49  <andythenorth> it puts more work on you
18:39:15  <andythenorth> I am not -1 to the idea, but I don't think it's the primary improvemewnt
18:39:18  <andythenorth> -w
18:40:19  <andythenorth> Wolf01: it's probably two patches
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18:40:43  <andythenorth> 1) detect whether a layout can be built, and change the colour of the cursor under the tile
18:41:39  <andythenorth> 2) show layout(s) as a tile grid
18:41:44  <andythenorth> 2 is rather hard imho
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18:42:16  <Eddi|zuHause> well, you can either have random layout choosing or an exact representation of where it's going to be placed. not both
18:43:55  <Eddi|zuHause> i think the subset of people who want to place industries manually, but want to be surprised by the layout it's going to choos is fairly small
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18:50:05  <andythenorth> you'd have to survey for that :P
18:50:20  <andythenorth> I can only offer my opinion, which is that choosing the layout is very boring
18:50:33  <andythenorth> forum poll :P
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19:00:25  <Eddi|zuHause> i don't see how it's different from choosing which direction of tracks your platforms should have
19:00:55  <andythenorth> arguably you're right
19:01:01  <andythenorth> but I think it's more work
19:01:23  <andythenorth> currently I only have to click approximately where I want the industry
19:01:30  <andythenorth> in the common cases
19:01:52  <Eddi|zuHause> there's no reson to forbid that
19:01:56  <andythenorth> choosing a specific layout means I have to understand precisely the conditions that will allow that layout to bbuild
19:02:22  <andythenorth> which are very hard to understand, unless you are the newgrf author
19:03:08  <andythenorth> so the UI would be 'random layout' | layouts 1-n
19:03:10  <andythenorth> ?
19:08:49  <Wolf01>  <andythenorth> 1) detect whether a layout can be built, and change the colour of the cursor under the tile <- we could do this and see if will get to trunk
19:09:02  <glx> show layout and required land shape ;)
19:09:38  <glx> for crazy stuff like tourist buildings
19:10:34  <andythenorth> yes
19:10:35  <Wolf01> I wouldn't change the way the game works now, just show if you could place it or not before clicking, maybe with a max(x,y) tile area
19:10:36  <andythenorth> that's just harder
19:10:49  <andythenorth> binary yes/no is first step
19:13:44  <andythenorth> hmm Eddi might be right
19:13:59  <andythenorth> showing layout on random choice is ~impossible
19:14:17  <andythenorth> it's easy for an allowed layout
19:14:34  <andythenorth> but if there are no allowed layouts, which one should then be shown?
19:16:30  <Wolf01> andythenorth: Wetroads and gondolas for tourists plz, max speed 4km/h, 2 people capacity, 40 to 90€ ticket :P
19:17:30  <Pikka> Wolf01, I've always thought navigations and narrowboats would be best represented as notroads, rather than ships ;)
19:17:47  <Wolf01> We made NRT exactyle for that
19:17:56  <Wolf01> *exactly
19:18:53  <Eddi|zuHause> have you asked V?
19:19:11  <Wolf01> V is busy :P
19:19:42  <LordAro> nah, .16 is stable now
19:19:45  <Eddi|zuHause> andythenorth: if no layout is available, just show a red highlight on the current tile
19:19:56  <LordAro> clearly V has loads of time
19:20:14  <andythenorth> Eddi|zuHause: that doesn't solve the 'give me a guide to placement' that has been asked for
19:20:25  <andythenorth> but I don't think that problem can be solved
19:20:34  <Eddi|zuHause> not really
19:20:53  <andythenorth> unless choosing an explicit layout...
19:21:17  <Eddi|zuHause> if you allow choosing a layout, you can highlight the mismatched tiles
19:21:43  <andythenorth> yes
19:23:49  <Wolf01> We should change a lot of interfaces to be like the newobjects one
19:24:09  <Wolf01> Stations are almost like that, extend it to industries
19:24:34  <andythenorth> industries would need to be more like airports
19:25:05  <andythenorth> airports already handle scaling the sprites, and paging through layouts
19:25:21  <andythenorth> (try OGFX+ Airports to see the multiple orientations)
19:25:58  <andythenorth> I bet that manual industry layout selection is not very hard
19:26:06  <andythenorth> it's just hard to make the UI not ugly
19:29:21  <Eddi|zuHause> do airports actually handle scaling sprites, or is it a custom preview sprite that each airport must provide?
19:29:32  <andythenorth> good Q
19:30:12  <Wolf01> Fuck, a new crash on NRT reported
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19:30:57  <andythenorth> yes
19:31:17  <andythenorth> I read the crashlog, but I didn't get any insight
19:33:18  <Wolf01> Just some grfs loaded
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19:34:45  <Wolf01> Uhm, did he even started a game or the game crashed as soos as he launched it?
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19:34:58  <Wolf01> *soon
19:35:48  <andythenorth> there's no save eh?
19:36:46  <Wolf01> Tick 49367: game loaded <- I bet he loaded a trunk savegame on NRT
19:37:19  <Wolf01> But the last 4 grrfs are NRT ones
19:38:03  <Wolf01> Ok, opening a 18MB dump on VS shows exactly the same things of the log file
19:38:35  <Wolf01> "The thread tried to divide an integer value by an integer divisor of zero."
19:38:38  <glx>  <Eddi|zuHause> do airports actually handle scaling sprites, or is it a custom preview sprite that each airport must provide? <-- I think it's a preview
19:40:39  <glx>;a=blob;f=media/extra_grf/airport_preview.png;h=cfa41f2c70bbf45f5d79d57d4b5d1d4d6ac52a89;hb=HEAD
19:41:09  <peter1138> has TrueBrain finished his magic yet?
19:41:19  <andythenorth> nah
19:41:46  <andythenorth> ok so they're pre-scaled
19:41:55  <andythenorth> I am *not* doing that in newgrf industries :
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20:19:28  <Wolf01> Connection says to go to bed
20:19:30  <Wolf01> 'night
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20:20:29  <andythenorth> also
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