Log for #openttd on 2nd April 2018:
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00:00:14  <supermop> Eddi|zuHause: holy shit
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00:03:28  <supermop> i knew i was being dumb, but i am surprised at just how dumb
00:03:58  <supermop> though to be fair, the name of that variable is so long, why bother saving the e
00:04:22  <Eddi|zuHause> supposedly consistency with the already existing variables
00:04:42  <Eddi|zuHause> dunno who thought this up in the first place
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00:05:29  <supermop> well pikka doesn't sleep that much
00:05:58  <Pikka> only sometimes
00:08:24  <Pikka> also, no inconsistency in variable names in nfo ;)
00:09:25  <Supercheese> just hex
00:09:37  <Supercheese> so inscrutable rather than inconsistent
00:09:59  <Pikka> somewhat
00:10:48  <Eddi|zuHause> so the original curv_info variables date very very early in nml history
00:11:16  <Eddi|zuHause> commit by yexo, april 2010
00:11:30  <Supercheese> whew
00:12:56  <Eddi|zuHause> also, it's not actually an abbreviation of "curve", but "curvature"
00:23:24  <jinks> Mikro ist mal wieder sehr leise... ca. 50% der Musik
00:23:35  <Pikka> oui
00:23:47  <jinks> sorry, wrong tab :(
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06:35:24  <andythenorth> huzzah
06:35:59  <andythenorth> Pikka: solved it all? o_O
06:36:23  <Pikka> mostly
06:38:17  <Pikka> road hogs are really expensive. :P the poor ai struggles.
06:52:26  <andythenorth> really?
06:52:31  <andythenorth> I thought I made it too cheap
06:53:02  <andythenorth> I have costs on 'medium' eh
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07:07:21  <Wolf01> Moin
07:24:15  <andythenorth> lo Wolf01
07:26:45  <andythenorth> Pikka: expensive to run, or expensive to buy?
07:31:39  <Pikka> to buy, mostly. but it's being conservative about money reserves, I can loosen it up a bit
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07:43:46  <andythenorth> yeah ok
07:43:53  <andythenorth> compared to Horse, Hog is expensive to buy
07:44:03  <andythenorth> train will repay within 1-2 years on a good route
07:44:21  <andythenorth> trucks are 5-10 years
07:55:42  <andythenorth> livery remap for alcohol tankers? o_O
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08:55:11  <Eddi|zuHause> andythenorth: only if you get payment from the respective brand
09:27:57  <andythenorth> 8 year old wants ship tunnels
09:28:02  <andythenorth> he has made an extensive pitch
09:29:26  <Pikka> aircraft tunnels, doesn't it
09:31:30  <andythenorth> through mountains though
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10:01:27  <andythenorth> quak
10:01:28  <andythenorth> etc
10:02:12  <frosch123> hoin
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10:18:16  <TrueBrain> hmm ... how do I get a graphics set via the command line for regression check ...
10:21:02  <TrueBrain> the GUI can, but you can't via command line?
10:21:05  <TrueBrain> what is this bullshit? :P
10:21:24  <LordAro>  wget?
10:21:47  <TrueBrain> that means that I also have to figure  out both the URL and the place to wget it to
10:21:57  <TrueBrain> not ideal for a Docker regression-checker :)
10:22:48  <LordAro> mm, maybe
10:22:49  <TrueBrain> and installing the openttd-opengfx via Debian is not sufficient ... lol
10:23:42  <TrueBrain> where does it expect this to be ..
10:24:39  <TrueBrain> baseset is now in /usr/share/games/openttd
10:24:41  <TrueBrain> but .. hmmmmmm
10:24:52  <TrueBrain> haha, local
10:24:53  <TrueBrain> ugh
10:27:23  <TrueBrain> I always found it weird that the game depends on gfx files in order to run
10:27:25  <TrueBrain> I know why etc etc
10:27:27  <TrueBrain> still weird :P
10:29:40  <frosch123> the win installer has some address for download
10:29:57  <frosch123>
10:30:31  <frosch123> but i remember that something also used to wget nogfx
10:31:03  <frosch123>
10:31:16  <frosch123> ^^ only 270kB
10:31:41  <TrueBrain> why is that tar not something official? :)
10:31:48  <TrueBrain> but I was also puzzled where I should put that file
10:31:57  <TrueBrain> nothing really helped me in any indication wher eI could put it ..
10:32:02  <TrueBrain> been a while since I knew :P
10:32:12  <frosch123> readme 4.2 :p
10:32:16  <TrueBrain> yes .. didnt help
10:32:21  <TrueBrain> as it says: /usr/share
10:32:26  <TrueBrain> but by default, prefix is /usr/local
10:32:29  <TrueBrain> so .. yeah ....
10:32:38  <frosch123> blame lordaro
10:33:09  <TrueBrain> I would think that for dedicated servers, you could also have a command-line option that auto-downloads a gfx
10:33:11  <TrueBrain> just like the GUI
10:33:34  <frosch123> i would rather get rid of the stupid gfx requirement :)
10:33:49  <TrueBrain> works for me as well :)
10:34:01  <TrueBrain> either way, I now just installed openttd-opengfx from debian-stretch
10:34:06  <TrueBrain> and set the prefix-dir to /usr
10:34:10  <TrueBrain> now regression works
10:36:45  <TrueBrain> easiest way to get rid of it might be to include that above tar in the repo :P
10:37:16  <TrueBrain> btw, frosch123, something for another day, but after OpenTTD moves to github, we also have to move stuff like grfcodec, etc etc (the extra folder)
10:37:20  <TrueBrain> that is not in scope for me atm
10:37:27  <TrueBrain> (not sure if I already said that :P)
10:39:53  <TrueBrain> okay, all linux dockers seem to work; later today I hope to tackle OSX dockers ..
10:43:14  <LordAro> frosch123: rude
10:45:20  <andythenorth> nice TrueBrain :)
10:45:50  <TrueBrain> I also replaced zesty with something with an a
10:45:53  <TrueBrain> (17.04 -> 17.10)
10:46:26  <LordAro> if you wait a few days, you'll be able to use 18.04 LTS
10:46:48  <TrueBrain> yeah ... we just add that when it gets there :)
10:46:54  <TrueBrain> its as easy as adding an entry to Makefile :)
10:47:28  <TrueBrain> LINUX_RELEASE_TARGETS += ubuntu-<whatever>-amd64 ubuntu-<whatever>-i386
10:47:30  <TrueBrain> :P
10:47:42  <LordAro> :)
10:47:55  <TrueBrain> owh, and for autobuilds, you need to add the tag in the docker hub account ..
10:48:13  <TrueBrain> still not sure if I want to use their autobuild .. it is nice, but another place to maintain stuff ..
10:48:27  <andythenorth> how can I draw a neutral dock?
10:48:35  <andythenorth> the CHIPS one is asphalt / concrete
10:48:42  <andythenorth> and has to be used with concrete station tiles
10:48:48  <frosch123> what makes a dock neutral?
10:48:59  <TrueBrain> Austria owns it
10:49:27  <frosch123> ask wolf to return venecia then
10:49:39  <andythenorth> frosch123: looks good with all CHIPS station tiles
10:49:49  <andythenorth> and all FIRS harbour industries
10:50:07  <Wolf01> What?
10:50:21  <frosch123> Wolf01: austria needs a port
10:50:34  <Wolf01> Take Trieste
10:51:05  <LordAro> TrueBrain: Switzerland, surely?
10:51:24  <LordAro> TrueBrain: what does autobuild entail?
10:52:44  <TrueBrain> LordAro: nah, that would be to political correct
10:52:54  <TrueBrain> hub.docker can autobuild a GitHub repo into Docker images
10:52:59  <TrueBrain> so you point it to a repo with a Dockerfile
10:53:02  <TrueBrain> when-ever you push there
10:53:06  <TrueBrain> he builds a new image
10:53:30  <TrueBrain> but I guess I can just make our Bamboo do the same .. gives a bit more flexibility I guess
10:53:51  <andythenorth> maybe time for newgrf docks?
10:53:53  <TrueBrain> their autobuild also cannot do Windows ..
10:54:08  <TrueBrain> *shrug* .. not sure .. lets first get the GH migration done :)
10:59:03  <TrueBrain> Debian is cool .. they are creating 'slim' images for Docker .. removing shit you most likely won't be needing
10:59:29  <TrueBrain> I now have images < 200 MiB that can build OpenTTD
10:59:33  <TrueBrain> including all main dependencies
10:59:35  <TrueBrain> (like ICU)
10:59:51  <andythenorth> :)
11:00:01  <TrueBrain> well, more like 300 MiB
11:00:07  <TrueBrain> the ubuntu, in contrast, are 700 MiB
11:03:04  <TrueBrain> that stupid Makefile requirements that it needs tabs ... it keeps screwing me over
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11:15:11  <LordAro> TrueBrain: tabs 4 lyfe
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11:43:02  <andythenorth> Pikka: is it wagon speed limits? or not?
11:43:28  <Pikka> I think so
11:44:16  <Pikka> it's "realism", and it makes the fastest express engines not the ideal choice for literally everything
11:44:58  <andythenorth> same here
11:46:33  <Pikka> when I get around to doing industries again, I think I'll try an experimental cargo payment setting which ignores time in transit, see if that improves the game
11:46:52  <andythenorth> such industry
11:46:55  <andythenorth> 2x zoom?
11:47:02  <Pikka> TTD's time/distance payment model is dumb. faster vehicles already have an advantage in that they can make more trips, they don't need to be paid more too.
11:47:23  <Pikka> very zoom
11:47:28  <andythenorth> lawks
11:49:38  * andythenorth double tracks some canals
11:53:49  <andythenorth> should I random cabeese?
11:55:16  <andythenorth> they are all this sort of thing currently
11:55:24  <frosch123> add cabbage as cargo
11:55:46  <andythenorth> well
11:55:51  <andythenorth> I could
11:56:02  <andythenorth> 'Veg' is missing mostly from FIRS
11:56:08  <andythenorth> also this kind of cabeese
11:57:06  <andythenorth> not sure how useful random is :P
11:58:07  <andythenorth> ha ha also I deleted all the code for random graphical variants :D
12:00:30  <Pikka> brakevans kind of feel like the one thing that should be fairly consistent
12:00:47  <Pikka> unless you want to do different graphics per company, which is real BAD FEATURES
12:01:45  <andythenorth> I have 2 to choose from anyway
12:01:54  <andythenorth> maybe random sprites are blah
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12:36:15  <Thedarkb-X40> I was going to build an OpenTTD package for TinyCore Linux but I couldn't get it to cooperate with Xvesa
12:37:01  <Thedarkb-X40> My TinyCore machine has no Linux graphics drivers so sacrifices must be made.
12:55:21  <Pikka> hmmmm
12:56:16  <Pikka> andythenorth, your courier trucks are confusing my AI
12:56:39  <andythenorth> oops
12:56:44  <andythenorth> what haps?
12:56:54  <Pikka> different capacities for different cargos :)
12:57:29  <andythenorth> is proper no? :P
12:57:47  <andythenorth> can I provide any hint? o_O
13:00:29  <Pikka> hmm
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13:02:49  <Pikka> well, I could give it a hint... maybe make it prefer vehicles which carry goods by default
13:02:56  <Pikka> when it's looking for a big goods truck
13:06:01  <andythenorth> if default cargo is mail? o_O
13:06:03  <andythenorth> ignore?
13:06:27  <Pikka> something like that
13:10:12  <Pikka> there we go, Rattlebrooks away
13:16:18  <Wolf01> andythenorth: do you how to make a hinge which allow an active axle to pass with an angle >90°?
13:20:35  <andythenorth> Wolf01: bevel gears
13:20:58  <Wolf01> Max 90-100°
13:22:28  <andythenorth> I need non-electric trams in my game
13:22:31  <andythenorth> :(
13:23:01  <Wolf01> Draw tem without pantograph
13:23:04  <Wolf01> *them
13:24:04  <andythenorth> I need to hide the catenary
13:24:10  <Wolf01> Use NRT
13:24:16  <andythenorth> maybe I could patch to not show catenary? o_O
13:25:45  <Wolf01> Mmmh, double elbow... I will kill myself trying to get it together, but it might work
13:27:05  <andythenorth> still making robot arms?
13:28:08  <Wolf01> Yes
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13:58:13  <Wolf01> Double elbow won't work
14:08:59  * andythenorth lunch
14:15:11  <andythenorth> cargo loading sprites :(
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17:58:57  <Thedarkb> I'm not as good on FIRS as I'd like to be.
18:06:42  <andythenorth> ? o_O
18:08:56  <LordAro> people actually play with firs?
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18:13:23  <andythenorth> at least one
18:14:36  <Thedarkb> What's wrong with FIRS
18:14:44  <Thedarkb> I used to love Heart of Darkness.
18:19:14  <Thedarkb> LordAro, What industry replacement do you recommend?
18:36:43  <LordAro> firs, probably
18:36:55  <LordAro> i haven't played in ages
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19:39:13  <Wolf01> So, andythenorth: I think I've finished the robotic arm. Even without motors everywhere (there's only one motor at the base) and trying to keep it light as possible it weights a lot and doesn't work really well :(
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19:42:06  <andythenorth> :P
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20:14:26  <supermop_work> yo
20:15:16  <andythenorth> lo mop
20:19:03  <Thedarkb> Why do previously profitable routes become unprofitable?
20:20:42  <andythenorth> inflation?
20:20:54  <andythenorth> if inflation is on, turn it off
20:20:56  <andythenorth> it's broken
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20:51:56  <Pikka> Chris Sawyer, master of BAD FEATURES
20:54:16  <LANJesus> lol.
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21:19:52  <Wolf01> 'nihgt
21:19:57  <Wolf01> 'night also
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21:54:09  <Thedarkb-X40> Yeah I'll turn off inflation
21:56:37  <supermop_work_> still think it would be worth 'fixing' inflation somehow, or making it controllable by GS or new grf
21:57:27  <supermop_work_> even if revenue and costs scale 1:1, it would at least reduce the real value of giant cash piles
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22:17:56  <Thedarkb-X40> Will my server re-read the openttd.cfg when it restarts in 2100?
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22:42:02  <Eddi|zuHause> what i always found odd was that the bank loan interest is so low
22:42:31  <Eddi|zuHause> in games like railroad tycoon you can easily go bankrupt from maxing out your loan
22:45:45  <Thedarkb-X40> What's inflation called in the .cfg
22:45:58  <Thedarkb-X40> nvm
22:45:59  <Thedarkb-X40> found it
22:46:04  <Thedarkb-X40> Had a typo in my search
22:49:50  <Thedarkb-X40> Oh yeah, how do I turn up the connection timeout time?
22:49:53  <Thedarkb-X40> I have a slow PC
22:54:56  <Eddi|zuHause> the timeout is a server setting
23:00:11  <Thedarkb> I know, I own the server.
23:00:42  <Thedarkb-X40> Client: HexChat 2.12.4 • OS: Ubuntu "artful" 17.10 • CPU: Intel(R) Pentium(R) M processor 1.40GHz (1.30GHz) • Memory: Physical: 1.2 GiB Total (727.5 MiB Free) Swap: 945.3 MiB Total (888.2 MiB Free) • Storage: 12.3 GB / 31.8 GB (19.5 GB Free) • VGA: Intel Corporation 82852/855GM Integrated Graphics Device @ Intel Corporation 82852/82855 GM/GME/PM/GMV Processor to I/O Contr
23:00:42  <Thedarkb-X40> oller • Uptime: 2d 23h 58m 9s
23:00:50  <Thedarkb-X40> She's not exactly a spring chicken.
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23:10:50  <Thedarkb-X40> Would it be possible to put interest and inflation under the control of a NewGRF?
23:13:51  <Eddi|zuHause> no
23:15:28  <Supercheese> Too bad, that's an... interesting idea.
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23:36:46  <rocky1138> congrats on the 1.8.0 release
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23:40:14  <Thedarkb-X40> Shit, it released?
23:42:35  <Pikka> mmmm, "expression expected" at EOF
23:43:04  <Pikka> silly curly brackets
23:43:43  <Pikka> the release is always april 1, Thedarkb-X40 :)
23:44:02  <Supercheese> An ancient tradition
23:44:36  <Pikka> EOF errors or OTTD releases, Supercheese? :P
23:44:45  <Supercheese> Yes.

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