Log for #openttd on 6th April 2018:
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06:04:44  <andythenorth> o/
06:07:08  <Pikka> o/
06:11:44  <andythenorth> lo bird
06:11:46  <andythenorth> 47 done?
06:14:17  <Pikka> not quite happy with it yet
06:14:34  <Pikka> in the meantime, teaching AI about industries
06:15:15  <andythenorth> I did such liveries
06:15:18  <andythenorth> and have questions
06:15:24  <andythenorth>
06:15:33  <andythenorth>
06:16:04  <Pikka> shiny
06:16:19  <andythenorth> ok so the livery alternates if the vehicle is flipped
06:16:24  <andythenorth> works as BAD FEATURE
06:16:38  <Pikka> si... but more than two liveries I see
06:16:45  <andythenorth> different generations
06:16:48  <Pikka> ok
06:16:50  <andythenorth> easier to see them in buy menu
06:16:52  <andythenorth> now I want random coach types, depending on position in consist somehow
06:17:07  <andythenorth> so saloon, restaurant
06:17:12  <Pikka> ok
06:17:19  <andythenorth> I thought maybe brake coach?
06:17:21  <Pikka> so not actually random, just different?
06:17:23  <andythenorth> but not symmetrical
06:17:32  <andythenorth> different or random, dunno
06:17:51  <andythenorth> the code part I can do, it's the 'what'
06:18:59  <andythenorth> coaches nearer to London get a yellow cantrail stripe?
06:19:14  <andythenorth> if next stop is > 32 tiles, it's a sleeper train?
06:19:55  <Pikka> just one or two different coaches makes a big difference
06:20:16  <Pikka> brakes on the ends and a rst somewhere in the middle?
06:20:22  <andythenorth> I'll try the brakes
06:20:31  <andythenorth> they won't flip when flipped
06:20:37  <Pikka> yes
06:20:49  <Pikka> but you could have two different variants, one for the front and one for the back
06:20:53  <andythenorth> yes
06:20:54  <Pikka> if so inclined
06:20:57  <andythenorth> and restaurant car every what, 3 cars, 5 cars?
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06:21:06  <andythenorth> measure length of consist, put it in the middle?
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06:21:15  <Pikka> one per train, in the middle but towards the front?
06:21:35  <andythenorth> ok that's some hideous switch
06:22:18  <andythenorth> this also leads to a TPO if the train is only mail :"
06:22:25  <Pikka> si
06:22:53  <andythenorth> now how to measure consist length :P
06:24:39  * andythenorth reads nfo docs, the nml docs can be confusing
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06:29:22  <Pikka> type 82 nn of var 40 (or 41 if you just want the coaches not the whole train). I'm sure NML has a more sensible variable
06:29:53  <andythenorth> it does, but it's badly documented
06:29:58  <andythenorth> so how do I find 'middle'
06:30:09  <andythenorth> some modulo magic I guess
06:30:11  <Pikka> >>1
06:31:20  <andythenorth> not so easy in nml :P
06:31:42  <andythenorth> "% len / position" or something
06:31:58  <andythenorth> I like maths, I just wish I could retain how to do it better
06:32:15  <andythenorth> it's embarassing having to ask Eddi|zuHause
06:32:50  <Pikka> while you're there
06:33:00  <Pikka> ask him how you get an AI to build semaphores
06:33:10  <andythenorth> lawks
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08:13:04  <Eddi|zuHause> about the signals: no clue. does it not respect the ingame setting "build semaphore before <X>"? about the maths: sorry, i won't have time today
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08:18:33  <Pikka> maybe it does, Eddi, but it's a shame if it can't be overriden. After all, the default GUI now allows manually building either signal type.
08:21:09  <Pikka> andythenorth: still something wrong with it. maybe it just needs the roof detail made bolder to distract from the iffy nose shape.
08:21:37  <andythenorth> well it has a nice face
08:22:07  <andythenorth> in the – view, I'd reduce the windscreen rake
08:22:15  <andythenorth> make it more flat, and step in a bit from the nose
08:22:32  <andythenorth> it's not the actual shape, but it's how the shape looks imho
08:22:42  <Pikka> yes, it's been tricky to get that right
08:23:00  <Pikka> it doesn't look quite so pronounced when it's not against a bright white background though :)
08:25:58  <andythenorth>
08:26:03  <andythenorth> hax
08:26:11  <andythenorth> looks live a 50 though
08:26:25  <andythenorth> should be a 50 anyway, more vroom
08:26:47  * andythenorth will stop advising on engines :)
08:27:03  <Pikka> vroom vroom
08:27:09  <andythenorth> make it a bo-bo 47
08:28:55  <andythenorth> I really liked Vs trains
08:29:24  <Pikka> quite the extra zoom level
08:29:36  <andythenorth> that I could leave
08:29:40  <andythenorth> but the chibi
08:30:04  <andythenorth> do it a bit fake, and let the BORTS 2 guys repaint it to realism
08:30:22  <andythenorth> actually BORTS 2 will probably change name
08:30:22  <Pikka> BORTS3
08:30:31  <andythenorth> TROBS
08:30:49  <andythenorth> so all this magic consist stuff
08:30:53  <andythenorth> I'd better do it
08:31:00  <andythenorth> you've done it before pikka
08:31:05  <andythenorth> is it just a *lot* of switches?
08:31:10  <Pikka> and I'll do it again, probably.
08:31:12  <Pikka> not that many?
08:46:05  <andythenorth> probably not
08:46:53  <andythenorth> check consist cargo, check position in consist, check engine, check flipped var
08:52:19  <Pikka> mmm
08:52:30  <Pikka> well, if you're going to have that many variations, you'll need that many switches :P
08:55:29  <andythenorth> this
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09:39:57  <andythenorth> Pikka: ever used CB36 train prop 25?
09:40:31  <andythenorth>
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10:14:25  <andythenorth> nbm
10:29:28  <Pikka> ya
10:30:02  <Pikka> cb25 is the gold standard of BAD FEATURES
10:30:39  <andythenorth> can't fugure out how I'd actually make use of it
10:31:06  <Pikka> generational upgrades on one ID :P
10:31:32  <Pikka> HEP, multi-mode electrics, that sort of thing. All the basics.
10:31:47  <andythenorth> how do you set the bits?
10:31:58  <Pikka> oh
10:32:12  <andythenorth> handle cb36, check prop 25, return something?
10:32:26  <Pikka> I was just thinking about cb36... yes, property 25
10:32:29  <Pikka> not hugely useful :P
10:32:45  <Pikka> I'm sure I've used it for some things though
10:32:58  <Pikka> prop 25 rings a bell
10:33:22  <andythenorth> I found a way that didn't need it
10:34:01  <Pikka> mmm
10:34:24  <andythenorth> probly much more use when one doesn't have a templated grf compile :P
10:34:32  <andythenorth> then can leave props behind on engines
10:35:06  * Pikka shrugs
10:35:17  <Pikka> engines with props
10:35:33  <andythenorth> zellepins :(
10:36:24  <Pikka> bigzellepins
10:36:33  <andythenorth> zellepin mus
10:36:35  <Pikka> 4 tiles long
10:37:31  <andythenorth> hover zellepins :(
10:38:49  <Pikka> what's wrong with them?
10:39:03  <andythenorth> the joke is to predictable :)
10:39:19  <andythenorth> the zellepins are fine
10:42:41  <Pikka> zellepins do as zellepins be
10:44:35  <andythenorth> coaches match engine now
10:44:46  <andythenorth> and can still be flipped for alternate livery
10:48:20  <Pikka> o/
10:48:57  <andythenorth> mail cars are kind of sucky sprites
10:49:05  <andythenorth> still haven't found a nice style
10:50:07  <Pikka> I think you need fewer windows/doors
10:50:28  <Pikka> blank sides look like mail, lots of windows and doors look like a compartment car
10:52:20  <andythenorth> slab sides then
10:52:26  <andythenorth> one big black open door? :P
10:52:56  <Pikka> do you have a pic of the current ones?
10:53:08  <andythenorth> 2 mins
10:54:46  <andythenorth>
10:55:11  <andythenorth> ideally I need a style I can apply to trucks too :P
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11:01:41  <Pikka> yeah... I'd reduce them to 2 doors with one window, maybe? and/or no windows in the doors?
11:01:45  <andythenorth> NARS 2 is more slab side
11:03:13  <Pikka> the totally-unprototypical ones I've drawn in 32bpp are just MK1s with two half-width windows instead of 4 full windows... I think it gets the point across.
11:03:36  <Pikka> windows=passengers, at TTD scale
11:06:19  <andythenorth> I will do similar
11:06:23  <andythenorth> thx
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11:37:29  <andythenorth> newgrf wiki cert expired
11:37:36  <andythenorth> chrome is quite strict about it :P
11:40:26  <andythenorth> also tt-forums
11:40:30  <andythenorth> orudge: ^
11:43:02  <LordAro> good ol' shortterm letsencrypt certs
11:43:12  <LordAro> bet it's renewing them but not restarting the webserver
11:45:49  <andythenorth> just restart the webserver every 5 minutes :P
11:45:54  <andythenorth> optimised
11:46:01  <LordAro> heh
11:55:18  <andythenorth> ugh
11:55:23  <andythenorth> how to var 42 in nml?
11:56:02  <andythenorth> I can't get most_common_refit to do what I expect
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12:00:32  <Pikka> I don't know, certificate errors :)
12:00:57  <andythenorth> I added an exception :P
12:01:01  <andythenorth> I had to use firefox
12:01:28  <Pikka> "This site uses HTTP Strict Transport Security (HSTS) to specify that Firefox may only connect to it securely. As a result, it is not possible to add an exception for this certificate."
12:01:57  <andythenorth> how strict
12:02:15  <Pikka> schoolmarmish
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12:03:22  <andythenorth> kind of hoped this would work
12:03:36  <andythenorth> but it might need bitmask stuff
12:04:26  <Pikka> hang on, what are you trying to do?
12:05:10  <andythenorth> get the most common class in the consist
12:05:43  <andythenorth> but hang on, is that what var 42 does?
12:05:56  <andythenorth> nfo docs say it's the cargo type not class
12:07:13  <Pikka> I have NML docs but I still can't see the tt-wiki
12:07:19  * andythenorth tests 
12:08:36  <Pikka> 42 is cargo classes, yes
12:09:07  <andythenorth> cc 	the most common cargo type (from the column for type A)
12:09:56  <Pikka> for "column for type A" read "cargo translation table" IIRC
12:10:35  <andythenorth> maybe the error is elsewhere
12:10:38  * andythenorth tests
12:11:05  <Pikka> it might be that that bit of 42 isn't mapped to NML, because no-one ever figured anyone would need it :P
12:11:33  <andythenorth> mayeb :)
12:11:43  <andythenorth> but also my other switches aren't doing what I expect
12:11:48  <andythenorth> so I'll fix that first
12:11:51  <Pikka> cargo_classes_in_consist and most_common_refit are both bits of var 42?
12:13:23  <andythenorth> I think so
12:13:27  <andythenorth> I'll read nml src
12:13:59  <andythenorth>     'most_common_refit'                : {'var': 0x42, 'start': 16, 'size':  8},
12:14:15  <andythenorth> 8 bits at a 16 bit offset
12:14:20  <andythenorth> so cc
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12:17:53  <andythenorth> iz puzzle
12:18:01  <andythenorth> but my graphics chain works
12:18:05  <Pikka> hmm
12:18:12  <andythenorth> just can't trigger it on MAIL or CC_MAIL
12:18:19  <Pikka> yes, it should work in that case. Unless your train isn't actually mostly cc_mail :P
12:19:10  <andythenorth> or it should be label
12:19:15  <andythenorth> not class
12:19:38  <Pikka> oh
12:19:41  <Pikka> yes, should be a cargo
12:19:47  <andythenorth> nml docs might be wrong
12:19:53  <andythenorth> but I can't get it to work anyway
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12:22:56  <andythenorth>
12:24:39  <andythenorth> var 42 I can inspect in game
12:24:49  <andythenorth> it's 00 if the train is mostly pax, and 02 if mostly mail
12:24:52  <andythenorth> which matches the CTT
12:24:58  <Pikka> yar
12:25:24  <Pikka> unless column A is untranslated
12:25:31  <andythenorth> hmm
12:25:52  <Pikka> I don't remember why there was even a column A and column B, I think one ended up being translated to the CTT and one didn't.
12:26:10  <andythenorth> or nml is broken
12:26:18  <Pikka> mail should be 2 regardless
12:26:20  <Pikka> possibly :P
12:34:40  <andythenorth> think I have a fix
12:34:44  <andythenorth>
12:35:15  <andythenorth> offset should be 8, not 16, afaict
12:38:21  <Pikka> sounds plausible
12:40:40  <andythenorth>
12:40:45  <andythenorth> ok more madness now
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12:57:03  <andythenorth> Pikka: armoured livery? o_O
12:57:12  <Pikka> nah
12:58:11  <andythenorth> fair
12:58:18  <andythenorth> I'm running out of places to put pixels
13:00:47  <andythenorth>
13:01:32  <Pikka> snazzy
13:03:26  <andythenorth> now I just need to do position-in-consist variations
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13:14:29  <supermop_work> yo
13:17:09  <Pikka> yoyo
13:17:53  <supermop_work> how are the pixels
13:19:27  <Pikka> fighting with AI at the moment, otherwise well
13:27:54  <andythenorth> supermop_work:
13:28:11  <andythenorth> mail cars check most common cargo
13:31:44  <Pikka> orudge rebooted the server :)
13:32:01  <Pikka> fresh horses
13:32:51  <andythenorth> such horse
13:33:50  <Pikka> Eddi|zuHause, no it doesn't obey that setting... still builds light signals before the date
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13:39:35  <andythenorth> so should mail cars get any position-based variants?
13:39:41  <andythenorth> they already come in 3 lengths
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13:42:38  <andythenorth> but there are different flavours of mail car
13:44:18  <Pikka> obviously they should, then
13:44:37  <andythenorth> obvs :P
13:44:50  <andythenorth> so a version with no doors?
13:45:52  <andythenorth> probs
13:47:56  <Pikka> oui
13:49:45  <andythenorth> ok so every pax mail consist gets: first | default | middle-ish | default | last
13:49:56  <andythenorth> and if it's less than 5 cars, dunno :P
13:50:36  <andythenorth> but fixed rules will get done much sooner :)
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13:54:07  <supermop_work> nice
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14:07:49  <Thedarkb> Trains still pick up passengers on implicit orders, right?
14:10:55  <Pikka> yes
14:11:04  <Pikka> maybe
14:11:30  <Pikka> if you have cargodist on, possibly not
14:13:17  <Thedarkb> Oh
14:13:23  <Thedarkb> That explains a lot
14:36:11  <Pikka> afaia most people always use explicit non-stop orders
14:36:32  <SpComb> cargodist and non-non-stop isn't a good idea
14:37:13  <andythenorth> also no-loading is required for freight
14:37:19  <SpComb> iirc, although I can't immediately remember why, cargodist doesn't actually use the vehicle orders, does it?
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15:00:47  <_3298> i think we have a problem, a spammer found the bugtracker
15:01:11  <_3298> can someone with the proper permissions clean it up?
15:02:59  <_3298> this is the spam comment i'm talking about:
15:08:20  <andythenorth> I have some edit rights, but I don't see an option to remove that attachment
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15:18:59  <_3298> andy, the comment text has been copied from another comment further up, so we lose nothing by deleting the entire comment (if possible)
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15:28:31  <andythenorth> nah I don't have rights
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15:42:06  * Pikka ->
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16:44:48  <andythenorth> quak
16:46:20  <frosch123> moi
16:46:22  <frosch123>
16:46:46  <andythenorth> oh you beat me :P
16:46:51  <andythenorth> I didn't want to jump straight in with that :P
16:47:17  <frosch123> i don't come into chat unprepared :p
16:49:39  <andythenorth> do we care about existing grfs?
16:49:42  <andythenorth> they don't work anyway
16:49:46  <andythenorth> so changing name is fine
16:50:56  <frosch123> _3298: done
16:51:10  <frosch123> andythenorth: yes, my thought. noone uses is
16:52:47  <andythenorth> so commit patch, fix docs, done?
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17:41:54  <andythenorth> frosch123: tests passed locally, I push?
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17:42:15  <frosch123> please go ahead
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17:45:49  <DorpsGek> Commit by translators :: r28004 trunk/src/lang/belarusian.txt (2018-04-06 19:45:38 +0200 )
17:45:50  <DorpsGek> -Update from Eints:
17:45:51  <DorpsGek> belarusian: 42 changes by KorneySan
17:46:03  <TrueBrain> frosch123: shall I do my thing first thing tomorrow or so?
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17:46:26  <andythenorth> I was going to update docs
17:46:30  <andythenorth> but again I can't get in wiki
17:46:48  <TrueBrain> poor you
17:47:12  <TrueBrain> sounds like you are sad about it :(
17:47:38  <TrueBrain> ugh, the automated build of is really no good
17:47:39  <andythenorth> every time I have to use the password reset
17:47:52  <andythenorth> presumably LDAP is just fucked?
17:47:55  <andythenorth> does it ever work?
17:48:13  <TrueBrain> I have no clue what you are talking about, as you never explained your problem to me, so any guess is as good as the next for me :)
17:48:57  <andythenorth>
17:49:07  <TrueBrain> ah ... nevermind :P
17:49:09  <andythenorth> doesn't recognise my creds
17:49:13  <TrueBrain> not in my domain of control :D
17:49:18  <andythenorth> :P
17:49:30  <andythenorth> as long as password reset keeps working, the world will keep spinning
17:52:52  <frosch123> TrueBrain: move fs?
17:53:39  <TrueBrain> yes
17:53:41  <TrueBrain> and gh
17:54:22  <frosch123> when you move svn we need to shut down eints for some time
17:54:24  <TrueBrain> means tomorrow around .. 10-ish, I put FS in readonly
17:54:30  <TrueBrain> good point
17:54:43  <TrueBrain> can eints work with git btw?
17:54:56  <frosch123> it does on devzone for like 2 projects
17:55:01  <TrueBrain> good
17:55:13  <frosch123> but irrc we used different scripts for ottd
17:55:20  <TrueBrain> so my idea would be to migrate FS, takes ~5 hours, then move svn
17:55:30  <TrueBrain> then we fiddle with everything till it is happy again :P
17:55:41  <frosch123> ok, so everything at once :)
17:55:49  <TrueBrain> if you have a better idea :D
17:55:58  <TrueBrain> FS without SVN feels a bit lame :)
17:57:24  <andythenorth> devzone has git projects :o
17:57:34  <andythenorth> also I did the nml docs :)
17:58:12  <TrueBrain> frosch123: I am in the final round of testing the Bamboo <-> GH link; it will be Linux-only for now
17:58:19  <TrueBrain> but we can expand that pretty rapidly
17:58:40  <andythenorth> \o/
17:58:43  <andythenorth> future arrives fast :)
17:58:57  <andythenorth> ottd is very fun again
17:58:59  <frosch123> sounds nice
17:59:02  <andythenorth> I have totally stopped playing tanks
17:59:06  <TrueBrain> lol
17:59:19  <andythenorth> it's more fun when there's big infra change
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17:59:44  <TrueBrain> so tomorrow will be moving day I guess
17:59:54  <TrueBrain> frosch123: do you want to write a post? or email to devs about it?
18:00:14  <frosch123> i want to replace the bug tracker links in the last news
18:00:48  <frosch123> otherwise a news post about the new repository and some rebase-c&p commands when the repo is done
18:01:03  <frosch123> people with svn write access will figure it out :p
18:01:10  <TrueBrain> we need a PR dude to handle this stuff .. wait  ... that was what planetmaker was for :P
18:01:18  <TrueBrain> you are the boss :)
18:01:32  <frosch123> by elimination
18:01:36  <frosch123> :p
18:01:52  <TrueBrain> any way to the top is a good way :P
18:03:28  <TrueBrain> I am tempted to start the migration now, but the FS move takes for-ever :(
18:03:39  <TrueBrain> silly limitations
18:04:27  <frosch123> well, earlier we had to delete a spam post on fs
18:04:44  <TrueBrain> getting an account and posting there takes such effort
18:04:44  <frosch123> so maybe move it now before they post 1000 things over night :p
18:04:48  <andythenorth> just lock it
18:04:59  <andythenorth> "omg what if someone can't report a bug" :)
18:05:12  <TrueBrain> well, not the worst idea ... I can start the migration just before bedtime
18:05:27  <frosch123> oh, btw, did we figure out the place to upload .dmp to?
18:05:35  <TrueBrain> I did not
18:06:03  <TrueBrain> did we try uploading it to github issue? (they allow some uploads)
18:06:50  <frosch123> well, if people zip it
18:11:09  <TrueBrain> okay .. so I told to build some Dockerfiles for me
18:11:12  <TrueBrain> then I hit cancel
18:11:15  <TrueBrain> removed the repository
18:11:19  <TrueBrain> created a new under the same name
18:11:24  <TrueBrain> and .... the builds are still being added
18:11:26  <TrueBrain> .... lol?
18:14:56  <Thedarkb> Does the sailing ship NewGRF work with FIRS?
18:15:03  <andythenorth> dunno :)
18:15:04  <andythenorth> try it
18:15:19  <TrueBrain> that is too easy
18:15:51  <Thedarkb> Trying it now.
18:22:54  <Eddi|zuHause> hm... something i came across today: does windows not allow flipping left/right on stereo speakers?
18:23:04  <Eddi|zuHause> or is that just incredibly hidden?
18:23:14  <TrueBrain> I just always connect my boxes correctly
18:23:48  <TrueBrain>
18:23:49  <TrueBrain> :D
18:23:50  <Eddi|zuHause> that's not really the point ;)
18:24:36  <Eddi|zuHause> it's an issue with cable lengths. because the computer stands on the left, if the powered speaker were on the left instead of right, it would allow better placement
18:29:36  <frosch123> just sit on the other side of the table
18:32:07  * andythenorth sends Eddi 2m of cable from Amazon :P
18:34:37  <andythenorth> so how do I check vehicle is 'middle' of consist?
18:34:50  <TrueBrain> funny ... Bamboo gives me XSRF check failed on some API endpoints (not all), while XSRF is disabled in the config
18:34:51  <TrueBrain> go figure
18:34:54  <andythenorth> I can think of bad ways to do it, but there's probably a neat one line with modulo
18:35:29  <frosch123> position_in_consist - position_in_consist_from_back
18:35:55  <frosch123> s
18:37:30  <andythenorth>
18:37:35  <andythenorth> apparently
18:39:18  <Eddi|zuHause> Pikka (who is not here): with that the AI should now always build semaphores (untested)
18:39:20  <andythenorth> how do I find the number of engines?
18:39:39  <andythenorth> I want to set a sprite for first pax coach
18:39:46  <andythenorth> hmm, assumptions that won't hold reliably :P
18:40:12  <Eddi|zuHause> andythenorth: that will probably never work right
18:40:16  <andythenorth> nope
18:40:22  <Eddi|zuHause> except in the most trivial cases
18:40:23  <andythenorth> not even if I go mad with 0x61
18:40:34  <andythenorth> how about 'first of this ID' then?
18:40:36  <andythenorth> :P
18:40:47  <TrueBrain> XSRF fails because it sees http instead of https ... euh ... lol ?
18:40:58  <Eddi|zuHause> use position in chain?
18:41:03  <andythenorth> or 0x61 to check preceeding vehicle is not same refit?
18:41:09  <andythenorth> BAD FEATURES
18:41:10  <Thedarkb> What's the join timeout option called?
18:41:30  <Thedarkb> in the cfg
18:43:18  <Eddi|zuHause> you can call var 0x61 after pushing var 41 to the 60+ parameter register
18:43:45  <Eddi|zuHause> that should give you information about the first vehicle in the ID chain
18:43:58  <Eddi|zuHause> possibly negative 41
18:44:29  <Eddi|zuHause> not sure if that is what you asked for
18:45:03  <andythenorth> nah me neither :)
18:45:46  <andythenorth> I think some bad features are better abandoned before they're implemented
18:46:29  <frosch123> andythenorth: use position_in_vehid_chain
18:46:45  <andythenorth> yes
18:46:57  <frosch123> easy to check for first vehicle in sequence of identical ones
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18:48:03  <Eddi|zuHause> that won't, however do anything for "give me a list of all vehicles refitted to <X>" type of problems
18:49:16  <andythenorth> I want first and last pax vehicles, specifically
18:49:26  <andythenorth> not sure this is wise
18:50:43  <Eddi|zuHause> but, do you want to identify whether the current vehicle is the first or last. or do you want to access information from those vehicles anywhere in the chain?
18:51:46  <andythenorth> I want to identify if current vehicle is first or last with pax refit
18:52:19  <LordAro> TrueBrain: migration hype
18:52:30  <andythenorth> I'm now 60% certain I shouldn't want to do this :P
18:53:13  <Thedarkb> You know the "your computer is too slow for the server" message?
18:53:20  <Thedarkb> How do I increase the timeout?
18:53:33  <Eddi|zuHause> andythenorth: suggestion: a) scrap the refit part. have always known for any ID whether it's passenger or not passenger, b) use var 60
18:53:44  <Thedarkb> It's my server, I should obviously be able to play on it.
18:54:48  <andythenorth> I could do it with ID yes
18:54:57  <andythenorth> that's not a bad idea
18:55:04  <Eddi|zuHause> if sum (var60 for any ID that is passenger) from PARENT is the same as sum (var60 for any ID that is passenger), then it's the first vehicle
18:55:14  <Eddi|zuHause> if sum is 1, it's the last
18:55:55  <Thedarkb> Fixed.
18:56:51  <frosch123> how did you apply a time limit to a velocity?
18:57:26  <Eddi|zuHause> andythenorth: mind you that this is probably a computationally expensive operation
18:57:51  <andythenorth> :)
18:58:55  <andythenorth> shame there's no var equivalent to position_in_vehid_chain, but spanning gaps (non-consecutive) :)
18:59:14  <Eddi|zuHause> andythenorth: also, i found the "user-defined bits" (again). it's the "uu" part of var42
18:59:28  <andythenorth> yes :)
18:59:37  <andythenorth> and we just added it to nml :P
18:59:44  <andythenorth> I am studiously ignoring it
18:59:57  <frosch123> good choice
18:59:58  <andythenorth> I can't see how it could be used for anything wise
19:00:13  <frosch123> i think it is useful for start/stop realism bs
19:00:21  <frosch123> but likely not useful for graphics
19:00:33  <Eddi|zuHause> i guess the intention was something like "needs a brake van" or "heating type <x>"
19:00:43  <andythenorth> ha
19:00:45  <andythenorth> I could use num_vehs_in_vehid_chain
19:01:15  <andythenorth> there are some sprites that make sense to show for first / last vehicle in a chain IFF it's reasonably long
19:01:16  <Eddi|zuHause> andythenorth: like above, var60 for PARENT vs. var60 for SELF?
19:01:47  <andythenorth> if first in consecutive chain, and chain > 5, then show special sprite
19:02:14  <Eddi|zuHause> well, length of the chain is just position from start+position from end?
19:02:55  <Eddi|zuHause> so if start==0 and end > 5?
19:04:30  <Eddi|zuHause> my old idea for the user bits was something like "train has a dining car"
19:05:06  <Eddi|zuHause> like, all dining cars would set the same bit, and then the train can check without knowing all IDs of dining cars
19:05:07  <andythenorth> that is one of the things I am doing
19:05:12  <andythenorth> yes
19:05:16  <andythenorth> but I can do that in the compile
19:05:18  <andythenorth> so eh :)
19:05:35  <TrueBrain> I am getting so fed up by Bamboo .. endless bugs and wrong information ..
19:05:44  <TrueBrain> it tries to execute a job on a slave that cannot handle the task defined
19:05:46  <TrueBrain> ... no shit
19:05:52  <TrueBrain> it is not in the capability table
19:05:52  <Eddi|zuHause> TrueBrain: sounds like a typical day
19:06:09  <frosch123> would jenkins have the necessary stuff?
19:06:15  <TrueBrain> it would, I guess
19:06:18  <TrueBrain> it has problems too
19:06:23  <TrueBrain> but at least there you can hack the shit out of it
19:06:41  <LordAro> doit :>
19:06:42  <andythenorth> jenkins keeps on trucking
19:06:51  <TrueBrain> yeah, I might try it out soon-ish
19:06:57  <TrueBrain> but for now I just want to get the migration done :)
19:07:05  <LordAro> it's gotten marginally fancy with the pipeline stuff
19:07:12  <andythenorth> works quite well
19:07:16  <LordAro> and the blue ocean interface is very shiny
19:07:18  <andythenorth> we use it for tests, not CI
19:07:20  <TrueBrain> most people I know that know Jenkins, do not want to use pipelines :D
19:07:35  <andythenorth> pipelines were a win for us
19:07:43  <andythenorth> we can run multiple parts of a job sanely
19:07:47  <andythenorth> and split them over AWS too
19:08:03  <TrueBrain> AWS still didnt reply to me questions .. hmmm
19:08:15  <LordAro> :(
19:08:17  <andythenorth> AWS have people? :o
19:08:35  <andythenorth> I can't imagine Bezos wanting to pay to provide customer service
19:08:36  <Eddi|zuHause> maybe you should repeat the question louder and more slowly?
19:09:02  <TrueBrain> okay, enough of this nonesense .. installing Jenkins ...
19:09:12  <frosch123> a co worker advised me to call 24 hour hotlines between 1am and 6am, when they have time for you
19:09:33  <TrueBrain> I am not interested in talking to a heavily breathing woman :P
19:09:37  *** Gja has quit IRC
19:09:39  <TrueBrain> owh, not those hotlines? :P
19:10:00  <frosch123> it even was the amazon hotline
19:10:03  <frosch123> but not aws
19:10:07  <Eddi|zuHause> i don't think i actually ever tried calling any such hotline
19:10:32  <TrueBrain> I once had to pick up a NOC number ... not funny how many people call for nothing that important :(
19:12:06  <TrueBrain> owh, we once had Jenkins installed on this machine
19:12:07  <TrueBrain> funny
19:12:17  <TrueBrain> 2011 :D
19:12:47  <frosch123> i think there was also something called buildbot
19:12:50  <frosch123> never heard of it again
19:12:58  <TrueBrain> we tried that a blue monday
19:13:01  <andythenorth> we tried buildbot
19:13:03  <TrueBrain> we even run our own farm code for a while
19:13:04  <andythenorth> it was bad
19:13:06  <andythenorth> or we were
19:13:21  <peter1138> I've got a Jenkins install
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19:16:15  <peter1138> Oops that hot sauce was rather hot
19:17:22  * andythenorth makes trains
19:18:42  <Eddi|zuHause> why the hell did i agree to meeting at 9AM on a saturday?
19:18:52  <andythenorth> unclear
19:19:00  <TrueBrain> please ask again later
19:19:03  <andythenorth> heuristics failure?
19:19:19  <andythenorth> how BAD should the bad features be?
19:20:12  <andythenorth> first 6 trains are railcars, hauling pax cars
19:20:45  <andythenorth> I *could* make the pax cars look identical to railcar
19:20:48  <andythenorth> but that's confusing
19:21:24  <andythenorth> I *could* knock the yellow ends off the railcars when they are multiple
19:21:28  <andythenorth> that's probably BAD GOOD
19:21:36  *** Supercheese has joined #openttd
19:22:21  <Eddi|zuHause> make the wagons look like railcars? what's next, powered wagons?
19:22:44  <andythenorth> ugh
19:22:46  <andythenorth> don't :P
19:29:04  <TrueBrain> okay, Jenkins installed (via docker)
19:29:13  <TrueBrain> weekly, not the LTS .. I am like that, living on the edge!
19:32:26  <TrueBrain> lol .. first you want to install these 500000000+1 plugins :D
19:32:49  <LordAro> ofc
19:32:54  <frosch123> that's more than years in ottd
19:33:14  <frosch123> can you reduce it to 5000000
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19:37:54  <TrueBrain> ugh, it opens in Dutch .. wtf ...
19:38:14  <TrueBrain> well, partial, anyway
19:41:02  <Eddi|zuHause> i don't think i've seen a program that opens in dutch yet
19:44:34  <TrueBrain> be happy
19:44:38  <TrueBrain> horrible language to read systems in
19:48:26  *** supermop_work has joined #openttd
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19:55:29  <TrueBrain> hmm .. LDAP no workie :(
19:58:58  <TrueBrain> almost locked myself out :D
19:58:59  <TrueBrain> awesome
20:04:31  *** Gja has joined #openttd
20:09:06  <TrueBrain> lol @ Jenkins and GitHub hooks
20:09:11  <TrueBrain> one hook refuses to work with username/password
20:09:13  <TrueBrain> the other with API token
20:09:15  <TrueBrain> ...
20:12:56  *** Montana has quit IRC
20:27:20  <TrueBrain> okay ... GH integration works .. ish
20:29:36  <andythenorth> :)
20:30:26  <TrueBrain> LOL! His build status update triggers .... another build
20:31:12  <TrueBrain> ah, no
20:31:14  <TrueBrain> I was mistaken
20:31:16  <TrueBrain> it was building all tags!
20:35:59  <Thedarkb> Is there a way of unpasswording companies/
20:36:04  <Thedarkb> From the console?
20:38:21  <TrueBrain> now I have to learn how to make Docker jobs in Jenkins .. oh-oh :D
20:43:20  *** supermop_work has quit IRC
20:47:13  <TrueBrain> FlySpray is now read-only
20:48:14  <Eddi|zuHause> Thedarkb: i don't know much about the console, but you can move yourself to a company, and then change the password
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20:52:24  <TrueBrain> frosch123: it is happening! For the next 12 hours or so you won't receive any bugs :D
20:52:53  <LordAro> \o/
20:53:43  <TrueBrain> left a nice message telling people about it, and forced everyone to logout
20:53:49  <TrueBrain> (I changed the session-key-hash :D)
20:54:02  <Supercheese> Flyspray ded, long live Github?
20:54:10  *** supermop_work has joined #openttd
20:54:11  <TrueBrain> FlySpray read-only
20:54:15  <TrueBrain> the rest will come tomorrow
20:54:35  <ST2> ohhhh, the hype ;)
20:55:33  <Thedarkb> dbg: [net] [admin] the admin '' () made an error and has been disconnected. Reason: 'received invalid or unexpected packet'
20:55:34  <Thedarkb> dbg: [net] [admin] '' () has disconnected
20:55:36  <Thedarkb> ???
20:56:16  <Eddi|zuHause> h5xx0r
20:56:24  <Eddi|zuHause> err
20:56:26  <Eddi|zuHause> obiwan
20:57:20  <TrueBrain> awh, a cosmic ray hit your computer? How terrible :D
20:58:00  <ST2> 'received invalid or unexpected packet' <<-- UPS isn't the same nowadays ^^
21:04:29  *** Gja has quit IRC
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21:09:57  <TrueBrain> hmm .. combining a pipeline where the Jenkinsfile is NOT in the scm and GitHub stuff seems to be incompatible :P
21:12:17  <andythenorth> :x
21:12:39  <TrueBrain> simple solution is adding the Jenkinsfile to git :p
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21:18:41  <andythenorth> hmm
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21:27:33  <andythenorth> consist position rules work :D
21:28:13  <supermop_work> nice
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21:30:17  <TrueBrain> meh; a lot of this is automated if the Jenkinsfile is in the repo :p guess that is what we will be doing then or something?
21:32:45  <andythenorth> that's what we do
21:32:47  <andythenorth> at work
21:33:04  <andythenorth> bonus: it means some of the jenkins configuration is in VCS
21:33:13  <andythenorth> and developers can find it, instead of it being hidden magic
21:33:15  <TrueBrain> yeah .. but it picks the Jenkinsfile from the Pull Request
21:33:22  <andythenorth> :|
21:33:29  <TrueBrain> my plan was to whitelist everyone, and use Docker
21:33:36  <TrueBrain> so .. nobody can do nasty things .. well .. not really anyway
21:33:47  <andythenorth> coop bundles does something different
21:33:52  <andythenorth> no jenkins file in newgrf repos
21:33:56  <andythenorth> there's some magic
21:34:05  <TrueBrain> I can do it myself; I did that for Bamboo
21:34:12  <TrueBrain> but I like it if others do my work
21:34:48  <TrueBrain> the other mode this comes with by default, that a developer has to whitelist a person making a PR
21:34:56  <TrueBrain> after that it automatically checks for that person
21:35:25  <andythenorth> no comments on the pink pls
21:35:25  <andythenorth>
21:35:37  <TrueBrain> nice; but that pink ...
21:36:13  <andythenorth> thx TB :)
21:36:18  <TrueBrain> np darling :)
21:37:25  <LordAro> TrueBrain: the whitelist thing doesn't seem unreasonable
21:37:41  <TrueBrain> no, but it is a fake idea of security
21:37:56  <TrueBrain> of course you keep out the people who try this trick to get stuff compiled etc (bitcoin mining)
21:38:08  <TrueBrain> I rather force stuff in Docker :D
21:39:21  <LANJesus> the trick to docker is to go gently
21:39:31  <LANJesus> caress the text files softly
21:39:41  <LANJesus> massage the scripts
21:39:43  <LordAro> true
21:40:02  <Supercheese> o.o
21:40:21  <LANJesus> hmm, this might not be the correct channel. pardon me.
21:41:28  <LordAro> lol
21:42:43  <andythenorth> is bed?
21:42:57  <andythenorth> or moar trains :P
21:43:24  <Eddi|zuHause> can't ever have too many trains
21:44:03  <TrueBrain> yeah, bed time; tomorrow more fiddling with getting a CI running :)
21:44:04  <TrueBrain> nn!
21:44:07  <Supercheese> until they... jam
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22:03:55  <andythenorth> yair
22:03:57  <andythenorth> bed
22:03:57  *** andythenorth has left #openttd
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22:29:43  <andythenorth> how can I check if a consist has an odd number of vehicles?
22:29:52  <andythenorth> something % something
22:32:45  <Eddi|zuHause> you could use %2 or &1
22:33:39  <Eddi|zuHause> or if you're looking for whether you're the at the middle vehicle, use position == position_from_end
22:34:11  <andythenorth> thx
22:48:34  <Thedarkb> What kind of industrial station should I use with scrap metal on FIRS
22:50:08  <andythenorth> CHIPS mud
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23:06:49  <andythenorth> eh no pikka
23:07:23  <andythenorth> nvm
23:07:25  *** andythenorth has quit IRC
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23:40:30  <Pikka> oops
23:45:42  <Eddi|zuHause> Pikka is the new DanMacK?
23:45:54  <Pikka> I hope not
23:46:52  <Eddi|zuHause> it would fit from the timings :p
23:47:45  <Eddi|zuHause> also [06.04.18 20:39] <Eddi|zuHause> Pikka (who is not here): with that the AI should now always build semaphores (untested)
23:50:23  <Pikka> yes... thx
23:59:06  <Pikka> if it's something that needs patching in the API I guess it's a feature request for 1.8.1 then

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