Log for #openttd on 9th April 2018:
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01:38:35  <LANJesus> what is the date epoch for ottd?
01:38:57  <LANJesus> 1/1/1 BC?
02:00:02  <Eddi|zuHause> i think it's year 0 based
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02:48:43  <LANJesus> there is no year 0
02:48:45  <LANJesus> hence 1BC
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06:26:49  <andythenorth> moin
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06:34:55  <peter1138>
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06:35:08  <peter1138> You know a system is fucked when the API to get version inormation changes...
06:36:35  <andythenorth> it's Apple innit
06:37:22  <__ln__> peter1138: afaik it has changed in the win32 api also.
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06:42:05  <peter1138> __ln__, as I said... :)
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07:08:01  <Pikka> o/
07:11:13  <andythenorth> lo Pikka
07:11:16  <andythenorth> is it yet?
07:11:33  <Pikka> approx
07:11:58  <andythenorth>
07:12:03  <andythenorth> it's very brake vans
07:13:23  <Pikka> mmm brake vans
07:17:39  <Pikka> oh dear
07:17:54  <Pikka> my AI immediately fell victim to BAD FEATURES
07:18:29  <Pikka> it thought the Shoebox would be the cheapest loco to run, but it isn't without wires.
07:19:09  <andythenorth> ha ha
07:19:20  <andythenorth> sorry
07:20:16  <andythenorth> not sure what to do about that :)
07:21:03  <Pikka> not much I guess... it'll cope :P
07:21:13  <andythenorth> does this actually do anything?
07:21:25  <andythenorth> and why are newgrf authors able to troll the AI? o_O
07:21:41  <Pikka> oh yes, I meant to mention that
07:21:56  <Pikka> it doesn't do anything for vehicles any more, but for stations it still does
07:22:11  <andythenorth> shame the vehicles don't do anything
07:22:11  <Pikka> so you should add it to CHIPS :P
07:22:13  <andythenorth> it could lulz
07:22:26  <Pikka> well, it's up to the AI now to choose the vehicles
07:22:36  <andythenorth> probably for the best :P
07:22:48  <andythenorth> CHIPs is in a funny place
07:22:51  <andythenorth> I can add tiles to it
07:22:59  <andythenorth> but everything else is WTF :)
07:23:15  <andythenorth> yexo wrote it to learn about stations
07:23:21  <andythenorth> so it exercises the full GRM spec
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07:23:38  <Pikka> oh
07:23:42  <Pikka> newchips then? :P
07:23:49  <andythenorth> nml stations :P
07:24:30  <andythenorth> can your AI understand wagon speed limits? o_O
07:24:40  <Pikka> yes
07:24:57  <Pikka> but it doesn't care much about them, it's happy to build slow trains
07:25:12  * andythenorth should try it
07:25:22  * Pikka will send an update
07:25:30  <andythenorth> ok
07:25:31  <Pikka> I think I'm done tinkering with it now
07:25:37  <andythenorth> I should give it to child #1 to test
07:25:46  <andythenorth> he has been testing Convoy and so on
07:25:47  <Pikka> 1 sec
07:25:50  <andythenorth> with running commentary
07:26:02  <andythenorth> I should give him twitch
07:26:12  <andythenorth> he could be the next Stampy
07:27:28  <Pikka> there
07:27:57  <Pikka> run it with the default industries if you want to see trains, FIRS really confuses it :P
07:29:05  <andythenorth> ok :P
07:29:07  <andythenorth> such FIRS
07:29:08  <andythenorth> BAD
07:34:37  <andythenorth> ha I left busy bee in the game
07:34:44  <andythenorth> AI probably can't do goals? o_O
07:36:12  <Pikka> not deliberately, no.
07:36:32  <TrueBrain> LordAro: possibly talk it over if PSP should still be a target that should be supported? :)
07:36:47  <TrueBrain> it was fun to add, but useful? :D
07:40:41  <andythenorth> PSP
07:40:45  <andythenorth> so much promise
07:40:54  <andythenorth> I think I gave mine away in the end
07:40:58  <andythenorth> it was so nearly awesome
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07:44:22  <andythenorth> well it's quite Civil eh
07:48:10  <andythenorth> seems it's doing goals by accident
07:53:18  <andythenorth> well Pikka
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07:53:31  <andythenorth> I wouldn't make those train choices, but it's making money :)
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07:54:25  <Pikka> lol
07:54:33  <Pikka> it has a minimum standard
07:54:38  <Pikka> which is 40mph and 250hp
07:54:50  <Pikka> and then it just picks the loco with the lowest running cost
07:55:06  <Pikka> or which appears to have the lowest running cost ;)
07:55:19  <andythenorth> it's choosing the 'correct' wagons
07:55:35  <andythenorth> I think that's because the grf author made correct choices about default cargos :P
07:55:49  <Pikka> yes :P
07:56:07  <andythenorth> vehicle default cargo cascades in Horse 2
07:56:12  <andythenorth> depending on what's available
07:57:49  <andythenorth> this one's interesting
07:59:02  <Pikka> for "piece good" cargos it buys random wagons :)
07:59:52  <andythenorth> spiffy
07:59:58  <Pikka> for liquid and bulk, it buys the highest capacity native wagon, or if no native wagons the highest capacity refittable
08:00:00  <andythenorth> go on...teach it integer train lengths :D
08:00:11  <andythenorth> it's only maths
08:00:50  <peter1138> Good morning.
08:01:01  <Pikka> most train grfs don't have multiple wagon lengths so you can make integer train lengths, though :P
08:01:36  <andythenorth> 'prefer integer' :P
08:01:41  <peter1138> I should play a game at some point...
08:01:57  <andythenorth> it's over-rated
08:02:00  <andythenorth> let the AI do it
08:02:15  <peter1138> Ah, ok.
08:02:22  <andythenorth> we played an MP game once
08:02:23  <andythenorth> I remember
08:02:27  <andythenorth> I made a castle
08:02:42  <peter1138> I miss when UKRS was current :P
08:02:59  <Pikka> yuk
08:03:34  <andythenorth> I am just remaking it
08:03:38  <andythenorth> only with too many wagons
08:04:02  <andythenorth> then I'll remake NARS
08:04:25  <andythenorth> then I have to 2x zoom all things
08:12:51  <andythenorth> hmm
08:13:31  <LordAro> TrueBrain: i'm pretty sure the "freebsd c compiler..." bit isn't relevant these days anyway
08:16:06  <andythenorth> Pikka: so I was going to make Horse-NARS use bigger sprites
08:16:10  <andythenorth> because realisms
08:16:15  <andythenorth>
08:16:40  <andythenorth> but P1JK scale regrets?
08:17:16  <Pikka> drawing smaller was a silly idea, for sure. drawing bigger you start running into issues with tunnels and bridges and general over-chibiness?
08:17:50  <Pikka> I'd stick to the standard sprite size
08:18:12  <andythenorth> also more copy paste
08:18:23  <andythenorth> drawing 180 wagons...1px taller
08:18:27  <andythenorth> blah blah
08:18:43  <Pikka> yes
08:20:53  <peter1138> Load average: 22.76, 14.21, 7.44
08:21:01  <peter1138> Hmm :S
08:21:31  <andythenorth> I need an AI feature
08:21:39  <andythenorth> don't use trains with unfinished sprites
08:27:08  * Pikka dinner
08:27:12  <Pikka> then 47s
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08:40:21  <Eddi|zuHause> andythenorth: there's AI uaage bits, but i don't know if the AIs will actually adhere to them
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09:23:00  <andythenorth> bbl
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12:17:31  <samu> hi
12:17:59  <samu> nice fixes for 1.8.0
12:18:03  <samu> ty
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12:31:40  <andythenorth> samu: we moved to github btw
12:32:41  <__ln__> "For tracking our bugs we are using a bug tracker called Flyspray." says readme at
12:33:23  <andythenorth> yes there is some work to do
12:33:45  <andythenorth> __ln__: add an issue :)
12:34:54  <__ln__> chicken and egg problem, can't add an issue to flyspray because it's read-only.
12:35:50  <andythenorth> such problems
12:35:57  * andythenorth can think of no solution
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13:01:51  <Samu> wow
13:02:27  <Samu> i need a new account to report bugs?
13:02:29  <Samu> :(
13:05:28  <LordAro> yeah, but you can learn how to do git properly now ;)
13:05:44  <LordAro> incidentally, has there been an announcement anywhere?
13:24:09  <andythenorth> nope
13:24:29  <andythenorth> and some contributors are quitting also
13:24:40  <andythenorth> unfortunate
13:24:41  * andythenorth biab
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13:33:25  <LordAro> just looked at the forum a bit
13:33:36  <LordAro> yeah, *really* needs some sort of announcement, with explanations and such like
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13:51:34  <Alberth> o/
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15:09:36  <Alberth> o/ andy
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15:11:05  <TrueBrain> w00p! I am baccckkkkk
15:11:12  <Alberth> \o/
15:11:21  <TrueBrain> upgraded my IRC client .. not sure I like it ... it seems to have lost a few options :P
15:11:25  <TrueBrain> owh well
15:11:49  <TrueBrain> today I was reminded why forums in general are toxic; I understand the point they wanted to make, but this is not the way to do it :D (so much passive aggrasive statements in a single post ...)
15:11:57  <Alberth> advances in tech usually drops the more techy features :p
15:13:39  <TrueBrain> yippie, I can visit again from this machine :D (certificate issues)
15:16:12  <Alberth> I assume it means something else than "with a browser" :)
15:16:38  <TrueBrain> no, my browser was of such age, it didnt support the TLS used for
15:16:46  <Alberth> :O
15:17:01  <TrueBrain> (it was running wheezy ....)
15:17:25  <Alberth> very stable :p
15:18:34  <TrueBrain> if it aint broken
15:18:58  <TrueBrain> now to upgrade my switch
15:20:40  <andythenorth> TrueBrain: I didn't say too much in my replies
15:20:52  <andythenorth> I feel the pain of those who were told to do everything the wrong way with hg queues
15:21:03  <andythenorth> I tried that and failed, it's insane hard
15:21:34  <TrueBrain> what amazes me about those post ... who "forced" them in hg queues .. and why do they blame OpenTTD in general for that
15:21:36  <TrueBrain> feels a bit off
15:21:41  <andythenorth> nah it's just lacking perspective
15:21:49  <andythenorth> I nearly quit after NML was introduced
15:22:15  <andythenorth> I wrote all of FIRS in NFO (with help), then it was ported to NML without a lot of consultation with me
15:22:23  <andythenorth> and I couldn't get the tools working, so I nearly quit
15:22:31  <andythenorth> but eh
15:22:45  <andythenorth> I didn't :P
15:23:17  <Alberth> /me is happy you're still here
15:23:30  <TrueBrain> I second that Alberth :)
15:23:34  <andythenorth> lol
15:23:44  <andythenorth> stats show this is mostly a channel of me talking to me
15:23:47  <andythenorth> so what is 'here' :P
15:23:51  <Pikka> o/
15:23:56  <andythenorth> oh Pikka bob
15:23:57  <Pikka> gnight :P
15:23:58  <TrueBrain> what surprised me most .. since when is IRC not the primary way of communication? When did that change?
15:24:00  <andythenorth> bye bob
15:24:05  <Pikka> bbl
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15:24:19  <andythenorth> I used to think forums were main way until I discovered irc
15:24:32  <andythenorth> I was quite hostile to irc, I thought it was msn web-chat bollocks
15:24:40  <andythenorth> people doing sexy chat and role play stuff
15:24:41  <TrueBrain> I don't remember anything else .. tt-forums was just a side-branch of communication to me :)
15:24:52  <TrueBrain> both are true :D
15:24:56  <andythenorth> we got it at work, so I joined #openttd channel too
15:25:04  <andythenorth> light dawned
15:25:10  <Alberth> TB lives in irc :)
15:25:16  <andythenorth> TB is a bot right?
15:25:41  <TrueBrain> yup
15:25:45  <Alberth> it has a domain now, it must get money from somewhere
15:26:01  <TrueBrain> either way, I do thing a bit more communication can be good, but that is up to frosch123
15:26:14  <TrueBrain> I think he really wants to make a drastical change
15:26:18  <TrueBrain> which I can only applaud
15:26:50  <Alberth> it's drastic indeed, never seen it done in other projects
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15:27:05  <TrueBrain> Python? :P
15:27:09  <TrueBrain> GCC?
15:27:36  <TrueBrain> Python took months of planning
15:27:38  <TrueBrain> monthssss
15:27:53  <Alberth> :O
15:28:06  <TrueBrain> Python migrated from their own hosted stuff to GitHub a bit ago
15:28:18  <TrueBrain> GCC simply said: make a fork that is more popular, and we call that GCC
15:28:32  <Alberth> oh, I mean allowing multiple openttds, each different
15:28:48  <TrueBrain> we just did what Python and GCC did at once :P
15:29:46  <TrueBrain> but yeah .. the infrastructure is now there for people to make popular forks
15:30:05  <TrueBrain> at least people can no longer hide behind: DEVS ARE MEAN AND DONT ACCEPT MY PATCH
15:30:28  <TrueBrain> means I can finally make my head-to-head to way I want it >:@ (goes all evil)
15:30:51  <TrueBrain> I had some technical drawings for an MMO OpenTTD somewhere ..
15:30:57  <Alberth> like we would stop you :p
15:31:20  <TrueBrain> of all the things, that never happened :D
15:31:44  <TrueBrain> I am a bit sad though about the OpenTTD community .. a lot of talk, very little doing
15:33:35  <TrueBrain> hmm .. I kinda want to rename to
15:34:04  <TrueBrain> too invisible that it is read-only ..
15:34:21  <TrueBrain> owh, and Alberth, you happen to know if there is eintsgit (I have an eintssvn)
15:35:48  <Alberth> that's code written by frosch, I have never even seen those scripts
15:35:56  <TrueBrain> so I will bug him :D
15:36:46  <Alberth> but likely, it doesn't exist, as neither openttd nor devzone used git
15:37:00  <Alberth> unless he wrote it recently
15:37:00  <TrueBrain> I thought someone said 2 projects used git?
15:37:16  <TrueBrain> well, something for frosch123 to figure out :)
15:37:31  <TrueBrain> otherwise I can use the svn of GitHub :D
15:37:46  <Alberth> you can use git at devzone, don't know if anyone does, but 2 sounds feasible
15:38:12  <TrueBrain> documentation suggests commit also work over svn to GitHub
15:38:14  <Alberth> it likely doesn't actually do much in terms of the VCS
15:38:17  <TrueBrain> might be the easy solution :D
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15:38:55  <Alberth> history is somewhat screwed there, in terms of svn
15:39:35  <Alberth> I read once what it does, and it didn't sound very useful from svn perspective :)
15:39:56  <TrueBrain> but if I can pick up new commits and send an update, it should be enough, not ?D:
15:40:39  <Alberth> yeah, it might be sufficient, you never want to look through history
15:40:59  <TrueBrain> it actually works
15:41:10  <TrueBrain> so those who really want to keep using Subversion .. can :P
15:41:16  <TrueBrain> and with that, anyone who wants to use Mercurial, can :P
15:41:18  <Alberth> problem solved !
15:41:47  <Alberth> nah, I tried mercurial as frontend to git, it is very break-ish
15:41:56  <TrueBrain> no, as frontend to svn! :D
15:42:01  <TrueBrain> it still sucks balls
15:42:03  <TrueBrain> but ... :P
15:42:25  <TrueBrain> (is Mercurial still being developed?)
15:42:43  <Alberth> no idea, but likely it is
15:42:49  <TrueBrain> its funny to me .. I setup a mirror for hg and git back in those days, as I really couldnt tell who would win ... git had Linux .. hg had Windows ..
15:43:03  <TrueBrain> now years later there is a clear winner ..
15:43:15  <TrueBrain> BitBucket still supports both
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15:43:16  <Alberth> guthub is a big factor
15:43:22  <TrueBrain> GitHub was a HUGE push
15:43:30  <TrueBrain> git taking Windows users seriously too
15:43:35  <Alberth> and git has a simple one way to use it
15:43:44  <TrueBrain> unless you hit reflog :D
15:43:50  <TrueBrain> but yeah :)
15:43:54  <Alberth> while hg allows more freedom
15:44:07  <TrueBrain> hg queues are awesome
15:44:09  <Alberth> but freedom is not what most users want
15:44:13  <TrueBrain> rebasing is still a bit more iffy
15:44:23  <TrueBrain> less verbose
15:44:41  <Alberth> much more strict, and complicated than queues
15:44:52  <Alberth> git threw out the option to change the diff
15:44:56  <TrueBrain> in a queue you can just manually edit shit :D
15:45:11  <TrueBrain> now I have to rebase against something, with -i, and change a patch
15:45:16  <TrueBrain> I so often fuck this up :D
15:45:28  <TrueBrain> what I do wrong most of the time, is that I 'git rebase -i' to a patch
15:45:32  <TrueBrain> fix something
15:45:35  <TrueBrain> continue
15:45:36  <TrueBrain> it break
15:45:38  <TrueBrain> I fix it
15:45:45  <Alberth> git is quite complicated beyond simple "add more commits"
15:45:46  <TrueBrain> and than .... 'git commit --amend'
15:45:48  <TrueBrain> :(
15:45:58  <TrueBrain> I still HATE that it allows me to amend while in a rebase
15:46:11  <TrueBrain> so often I squashed 2 commits together with this ...
15:46:21  <TrueBrain> but yeah .. for just: fix stuff, add it, commit it
15:46:25  <TrueBrain> it is awesome :)
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15:46:37  <TrueBrain> I really like how people keep looking for better workflows on GitHub etc
15:46:40  <Alberth> but hardly you need git for that
15:46:54  <Alberth> anything vcs does that
15:46:58  <TrueBrain> what I like most, is that andythenorth is jealous he didnt say anything for so long, and his streak is coming to an end :P
15:47:03  <TrueBrain> yup
15:47:12  <TrueBrain> git is just available, more than anything :)
15:47:41  <TrueBrain> my <tab> key finally works through this vnc server :D No longe typing out names :D \o/
15:47:52  <Alberth> now it needs to be less technically correct, and more user-friendly
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15:48:01  <TrueBrain> talking about frosch123
15:48:01  <Alberth> hola
15:48:03  <TrueBrain> HELLO! :)
15:48:17  <Alberth> ^ he's back :)
15:48:46  <TrueBrain> frosch123: question for you .. I can link eints to the svn of GitHub .. that .. seems to work. Low effort, but risky. Or do you have a git variant for eintssvn for me? :)
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15:55:52  <frosch123> i have a git variant for devzone
15:55:59  <frosch123> anyway, it should only need replacing a few lines
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16:02:00  <TrueBrain> if you could cook that up for me somewhere this week orso, that would be perfect :D
16:02:02  <TrueBrain> tnx :D
16:04:20  <frosch123> Alberth: and yes, devzone has full support for git
16:04:26  <frosch123> both in eints and in compile farm
16:05:05  <peter1138> evening
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16:05:18  <Alberth> evenink
16:05:47  <Alberth> nice!
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16:06:06  <supermop_work> yo
16:07:22  <andythenorth> TrueBrain: yeah, your count of uninterrupted consecutive lines is pretty impressive :)
16:07:22  <andythenorth> I kind of stop at 5 or 7
16:07:22  <andythenorth> when it's obvious it's me talking to me
16:07:34  <TrueBrain> I dont have that filter
16:07:47  <andythenorth> TrueBrain yeah, your count of uninterrupted consecutive lines is pretty impressive :)
16:07:47  <andythenorth> I kind of stop at 5 or 7
16:07:49  <TrueBrain> I am oblivious to the fact nobody wants to read me talk :D
16:08:12  <andythenorth> oh my client is repeating
16:08:12  <andythenorth> :D
16:08:36  <TrueBrain> or is it ....
16:08:59  <peter1138> My spacebar is sticking :(
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16:11:44  <andythenorth> I found the relevant thread btw
16:11:53  <andythenorth> don't read first two pages, it's just forum BS
16:11:59  <andythenorth> but the gold is all in pages 3 and 4
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16:17:01  <TrueBrain> funny how the same ideas have been around for months; any patchpack could have done it
16:17:04  <TrueBrain> yet nobody moves :)
16:17:38  <TrueBrain> sadly, this is a common thread not only in OpenTTD .. lot of talk, little action :)
16:17:49  <TrueBrain> that is why I like to just do shit :D
16:17:51  <TrueBrain> anyway, food
16:20:48  <andythenorth> also now it's getting done too
16:20:57  <andythenorth> winner winner, chicken dinner
16:28:49  <frosch123> hmm, i can't tell whether github does not display tabs properly or whether half of michi's patches are indented differently
16:29:33  <peter1138> :p
16:29:52  <peter1138> Hmm, it looked okay to me.
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16:32:24  <peter1138> So after that power blip in the datacentre, my irssi tabs are all out of whack :p
16:32:38  <peter1138> At least this one is in the right place.
16:32:47  <peter1138> (esc-2)
16:34:24  <frosch123> i looked at the raw diff
16:34:27  <frosch123> 3 lines used spaces
16:34:39  <peter1138> Oh. Hmm.
16:36:07  <LordAro> the thing is, people *were* told to use hg queues as a way of splitting up large patches into smaller changes - for ease of reviewing was the justification. i doubt they were mentioned without git, but queues were certsinly marketed as the simpler option (not taking sides here!)
16:36:53  * andythenorth making
16:36:59  <andythenorth> yup
16:37:09  <andythenorth> and queues sucked :D
16:37:19  <peter1138> frosch123, yeah, the OS X ones are not right.
16:37:24  <frosch123> i still have some queues, only moved some to git
16:37:29  <andythenorth> it was plain to me that I wasn't going to try NRT with hg queues
16:37:48  <LordAro> fwiw, i think the hard "split into logical changes" thing should be dropped, it's "too hard" for most people to do sanely (although reordering and commit messages is fine and expected still, imo)
16:37:51  <Alberth> git and rebasing came later than queues
16:38:41  <peter1138> I tend to start doing logical changes, and then find I need to fix an unrelated bug to continue on some more changes.
16:38:47  <andythenorth> +1
16:38:53  <andythenorth> all day long
16:39:05  <LordAro> +1
16:39:09  <andythenorth> we have rules at work (I am responsible for some of them)
16:39:23  <andythenorth> branch per isolated feature
16:39:29  <peter1138> Often the way a bug is fixed differs between your branch and master.
16:39:37  <andythenorth> so I then have 10 branches, and all of them are merged into each other
16:39:39  <andythenorth> zero diff
16:39:46  <andythenorth> but the bureacracy is correct
16:39:56  <andythenorth> even if the engineering is bollocks :P
16:40:10  <peter1138> Once merged you don't need them any more.
16:40:37  <andythenorth> nah I mean concurrently
16:40:52  <andythenorth> commit, switch, merge, switch, merge, switch, merge
16:40:54  <andythenorth> etc
16:41:05  <andythenorth> because 1 branch per ticket
16:41:18  <andythenorth> so I do a task like 'upgrade the entire UI library'
16:41:26  <andythenorth> with 1 ticket page of an app
16:41:30  <Alberth> I would really like a stack of patches, like queues, in git
16:41:47  <andythenorth> cascading branches
16:41:53  <Alberth> yes
16:42:00  <LordAro> incidentally, github solves nothing about "devs are mean and don't accept my patch" - devs still need to review and merge the PRs
16:42:02  <frosch123> Alberth: stash doesn't do it?
16:42:33  <Alberth> stash is not all available together afaik
16:42:40  <Alberth> ie hg qpush -a
16:42:44  <andythenorth> LordAro: correct
16:42:46  <LordAro> stash + branches covers everything mq did, imo
16:43:12  <andythenorth> LordAro: 'devs are mean' is probably perennial, there are those who do, and those who complain, and those who can do politics and those who can't
16:43:25  <LordAro> hehe
16:43:29  <andythenorth> but at least our toolchain won't be hostile any more :)
16:43:44  <Alberth> ha! :D
16:43:45  <andythenorth> and I won't be scared our infra might die leaving us shafted
16:43:52  <LordAro> or limited build system
16:44:04  <andythenorth> I am still scared of devzone and bundles dying
16:44:04  <LordAro> (when does first c++11 feature happen? ^^)
16:44:05  <andythenorth> but eh
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16:45:21  <LordAro> no risk of that any time soon, imo
16:45:36  <LordAro> maybe someone should set up a GH devzone organisation ;)
16:46:55  <andythenorth> frosch123: I am unsure, does bundles actually have git support?
16:48:11  <frosch123> andythenorth: syke-rail is an example
16:48:22  <frosch123> there was a second one, but that was the first one
16:49:25  <peter1138> Well, a branch is basically a stack of patches.
16:50:32  <andythenorth> I think I would like to stop using hg if possible
16:50:49  <andythenorth> I don't hate hg, but I use two VCS daily, and I'd rather use one
16:50:56  <Alberth> until you decide to change stuff in the middle, where you then get caught in a rebase, and the needs to apply everything
16:51:27  <frosch123> wait a little, i currently can't tell whether devzone would be replaced by farm and eints working directly on github
16:52:15  <Alberth> which is a mess if the top-patches become obsolete to the point of not applying sanely, but you want to keep them for reference
16:52:30  <LordAro> andythenorth: i use svn at work, i'm constantly trying to do "git di" or "git st -q"
16:52:51  <Alberth> alias git svn
16:53:08  <frosch123> LordAro: same for me, but i have the opposite result
16:53:17  <andythenorth> frosch123: a few days ago, before you joined channel TB persuaded me I should learn docker
16:53:51  <frosch123> andythenorth: i also did, since then i am frustrated that it is not used at work :p
16:54:12  <Alberth> :p
16:54:12  <andythenorth> I need to learn it for work
16:54:20  <andythenorth> and if it's good we switch to it
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16:55:49  <frosch123> so, how do i configure git to default-pull from OpenTTD/OpenTTD, but default push to frosch123/OpenTTD?
16:56:41  <andythenorth> I also want to see if pipenv is useful, and maybe package nml with it
16:56:42  <andythenorth>
16:56:44  <frosch123> hmm, or do i configure github to default pull from ottd to me?
16:57:03  <andythenorth> dunno :)
16:57:18  <andythenorth> alias to update the remote? :P
16:58:20  <LordAro> frosch123: git remote --help
16:58:32  <LordAro> i have an orgin and a fork remotr, usually
16:58:47  <LordAro> pretty sure you can remove push for a particular remotr
16:59:01  <andythenorth> I have NRT set up with ottd as a remote
16:59:08  <andythenorth> there might be better ways
17:00:30  <andythenorth> if $anyone finds docs that need updating...
17:00:34  <frosch123> yes, i have multiple remotes
17:00:39  <andythenorth> or just fix them, and cut out project management :P
17:00:45  <frosch123> i am just too lazy to always type which
17:00:57  <andythenorth> alias git pull
17:01:56  *** Wolf01 has joined #openttd
17:02:16  <andythenorth> lo Wolf01
17:02:28  <Wolf01> o/
17:03:23  <LordAro> and #6697 needs closing as workingasintended
17:03:31  <LordAro> no stagnation!
17:04:52  <andythenorth> do I have rights yet?
17:04:53  <andythenorth> o_O
17:05:03  <andythenorth> says TrueBrain is the only person on the project afaict
17:05:16  <frosch123> yes, tb is the only public member
17:05:17  <LordAro> only public person on the project
17:05:25  <frosch123> no idea whether he just forgot :)
17:05:34  <LordAro> no real reason why anyone should hide it
17:05:44  <andythenorth>
17:05:55  <LordAro> also that reason
17:05:57  <frosch123> LordAro: i have followers on github, they scare me :)
17:06:07  <frosch123> well, not as scary as my twitter followers
17:06:10  <LordAro> haha
17:06:11  <andythenorth> oh where did I fork NRT from :o
17:06:23  <andythenorth> maybe I *didn't get it from git.openttd
17:07:14  <andythenorth> can't tell, github confuses me :)
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17:08:41  <Wolf01> "I'm thanking each day i'm playing with ratt you, Andythenorth, Eddi and Alberth for continuing this fantastic work. Really." <- I'm tempted to reply "and frosch? He did most of it"... people always forget about frogs :(
17:09:28  <frosch123> it's fine, at least they don't annoy then :)
17:09:59  <andythenorth> silent contributor
17:10:10  <andythenorth> I am just the front man
17:11:06  <Wolf01> You make the grfs, without you (and supermop) NRT wouldn't be here
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17:11:21  <Wolf01> Also you insisted :P
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17:18:26  <Wolf01> BTW, andythenorth, your opinion for bus-only roads?
17:20:26  <supermop_work> brt guideways
17:21:49  <andythenorth> 'meh' :)
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17:22:18  <supermop_work> seems easy to do in nrt already, no?
17:23:19  <Wolf01> Maybe some little changes to pathfinding
17:23:37  <Wolf01> Shit s.Berliner III trolled me again
17:24:05  <supermop_work> just need the rv set to co-conspire with the road set
17:24:19  <Wolf01> I hate when fictional engines come up when you are making a seriouss research
17:24:49  <andythenorth> :P
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17:36:01  <peter1138> LordAro, well... should it be reoffered? I don't think so.
17:36:48  <peter1138> Is NRT here?
17:38:02  <andythenorth> it's here
17:38:02  <andythenorth>
17:38:15  <andythenorth> it needs rebased, and the merge conflicts fixed
17:38:18  <andythenorth> it's probably done
17:39:25  <andythenorth> probably lacks AI and GS support, but eh
17:40:48  <Wolf01> Not so lacking... samu and others tried it and seem to work, almost
17:41:22  <peter1138> What is RATT?
17:41:27  <andythenorth> merge it to master, let it run for next 11 months
17:41:39  <andythenorth> RATT is NRT
17:41:42  <andythenorth> it's the branch name
17:41:49  <peter1138> Ah
17:42:17  <Wolf01> RATT is the public name, NRT is the project name :P
17:42:21  <peter1138> So I'm in branch "road-and-tram-types" and I see sync with RATT. Syncing with itself?
17:42:37  <Wolf01> Probably XD
17:42:46  * Wolf01 <- Dinner
17:43:39  <andythenorth> that's just an odd commit message I think
17:44:07  <TrueBrain> frosch123: I am more surprised the rest of you are hiding
17:44:14  <TrueBrain> why not make it public you are part of OpenTTD? :)
17:44:31  <peter1138> It defaults to private, and nobody else bothered to change it?
17:48:20  <TrueBrain> andythenorth: you indeed didnt fork it via GitHub :D Silly goose
17:48:26  <andythenorth> oops
17:48:57  <andythenorth> ancient history now :P
17:49:11  <andythenorth> apply it as one big diff? :P
17:49:19  <andythenorth> commit: one big patch
17:49:27  <TrueBrain> ... lol
17:49:35  <TrueBrain> let me check what mess you made :)
17:49:44  <TrueBrain> I could figure out Wolf01's mess :P
17:49:47  <TrueBrain> <3
17:50:23  <TrueBrain> wow, lot of commits
17:50:31  <peter1138> Problem is the merges when changes get lost in them.
17:52:25  <peter1138> Last merged with r27974 - c46e470
17:52:31  <TrueBrain> 229 patches
17:52:33  <TrueBrain> oef
17:52:53  <TrueBrain> and doesnt apply clean on the head of your own master branch
17:53:32  <peter1138> o_O
17:54:31  <andythenorth> it has 2 merge conflicts
17:54:44  <andythenorth> one needs openttd grf sprites manually merged
17:54:52  <andythenorth> the other is savegame stuff I don't understand :P
17:54:58  <TrueBrain> ghehe
17:55:23  <peter1138> 11518 lines, 557608 characters for the full diff, heh
17:55:27  <TrueBrain> I guess it depends a bit how you want to go forward with this .. indeed as you say commit it as a single patch
17:55:31  <TrueBrain> or do you want to keep this history
17:55:52  <TrueBrain> main issue seems to be that it has merges from several branches
17:57:34  <TrueBrain> 241 non-merge commits
17:57:35  <TrueBrain> hot damn
17:57:48  <TrueBrain> owh, sometimes called sync
17:57:52  <TrueBrain> so that 229 patches is accurate
17:58:01  <TrueBrain> 100 merge commits
17:58:12  <LANJesus> got around to rebasing
17:58:20  <frosch123> i believe there are several experimental things which got reverted again
17:58:23  <LANJesus> peggin my CPU.
17:58:40  <peter1138> I don't think keeping the full history is useful
17:58:40  <TrueBrain> frosch123: that makes it even harder :D
17:58:59  <TrueBrain> I now remember why I rarely merge :D
17:59:13  <frosch123> problem was likely that only master is built on the farm :p
17:59:21  <frosch123> so everything must be in master
17:59:33  <frosch123> well, not "master", but that one branch
17:59:44  <peter1138> rebase apparently makes it harder to share
18:00:06  <andythenorth> we might also have different setups
18:00:10  <peter1138> which is sort of true if it's just random people working it
18:00:24  <TrueBrain> there is a point where there are 23 branches next to eachother
18:00:28  <TrueBrain> which are merged over 12 commits
18:00:59  <TrueBrain> running 'tig' on that branch is briljant
18:01:37  <andythenorth> does github have a tree view like bitbucket?
18:01:39  <andythenorth> I can't find it
18:01:47  <TrueBrain> no clue; locally I use 'tig' for it
18:02:12  <TrueBrain> in the end the branches are merged properly
18:02:18  <TrueBrain> but in between there are times that it is a bit iffy :D
18:02:31  <peter1138> Revert "Merge GUI"
18:02:35  <peter1138> Yeah
18:02:38  <TrueBrain> so rebasing will be very difficult
18:02:56  <TrueBrain> and manually fixing 229 patches is a bit much
18:02:59  <andythenorth> we had multiple branches in two forks
18:03:04  <peter1138> Cherry pick!
18:03:09  <andythenorth> I think this is how most devlolopers are going to do it :P
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18:03:44  <peter1138> Normally you don't change the base that everybody is working off
18:03:49  <TrueBrain> I honestly dont have a good suggestion for this
18:04:01  <peter1138> Rewrite!
18:04:08  <peter1138> Now you know what you're doing...
18:04:17  <TrueBrain> not relevant peter1138. If they want to continue on the new git, that is easy as pie
18:04:18  <peter1138> Split it up in to logical ... wait, that sounds familiar.
18:04:23  <TrueBrain> just takes some CPU time for git to figure it out
18:04:27  <TrueBrain> but that is simple
18:04:31  <TrueBrain> it is just a bloody mess
18:04:35  <TrueBrain> (their branch)
18:04:38  <TrueBrain> no matter how you slice it
18:05:05  <peter1138> master will get there eventually ;D
18:05:32  <peter1138> Let's go back to svn hah
18:07:32  <andythenorth> history is over-rated, everything has a hash
18:07:36  <andythenorth> don't worry about it :P
18:07:52  <TrueBrain> doesnt happen often that I am unsure how to resolve a git mess properly :D
18:08:03  <andythenorth> hmm tig is colourful
18:08:19  <andythenorth> what are the 'sync' commits? :)
18:08:35  <peter1138> That's what I asked.
18:08:40  <TrueBrain> they have 2 parents; so merges
18:08:42  <andythenorth> and why are there so many merge commits? o_O
18:08:44  <peter1138> so I did a big diff
18:08:51  <peter1138> checked out the same version, applied
18:08:52  <TrueBrain> andythenorth: 100 out of the 329 :)
18:09:06  <peter1138> only the pngs conflict, which is fair enough
18:09:16  <andythenorth> yair, someone added airport sprites :)
18:09:22  <andythenorth> just need to move the light-rail icon
18:09:39  * andythenorth lost in tig
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18:09:46  <TrueBrain> without some manual effort I am unsure you can make a clean PR out of this :(
18:10:07  <andythenorth> well gotta break some eggs to learn :)
18:10:16  <frosch123> andythenorth: it's not airport sprites, it's gui sprtes with firecycle
18:10:22  <TrueBrain> don't have 5 merge commits after each ohter? :D
18:10:44  <TrueBrain> with the same right parent .. also interesting
18:10:57  <andythenorth> isn't that just Wolf's editor doing something?
18:11:18  <TrueBrain> especially because they are clean merges
18:11:27  <TrueBrain> it merges a merge :D
18:11:32  <TrueBrain> that explains :)
18:11:48  <TrueBrain> the moment you find out that the left and right parent of the merge are both merges :D
18:12:04  <TrueBrain> haha, and the next level also has merges :D
18:12:18  <andythenorth> 2017-08-04 21:46 is interesting
18:12:19  <frosch123> that's why noone told andy that devzone also supports git :p
18:12:19  <TrueBrain> and one more level :D
18:12:21  <TrueBrain> this is fun :D
18:12:37  <TrueBrain> awh, there it stops
18:12:39  <andythenorth> hth did I merge 7 branches like that?
18:12:41  <TrueBrain> 4 deep merges :D
18:12:49  <TrueBrain> no, there is another name there
18:13:03  <andythenorth> 9 times I merged trunk in?
18:13:17  <TrueBrain> owh, searching for times is annoying :P
18:13:34  <andythenorth> my tig has run out of unique colours
18:13:52  <TrueBrain> yup
18:14:00  <TrueBrain> and no, you merged something that on the left side had a merge
18:14:22  <andythenorth> ok
18:14:44  <TrueBrain> but while you were merging, others merged too :D
18:14:57  <andythenorth> distributed fun :P
18:15:00  <TrueBrain> seems like for ~4 months you only merged into that branch
18:15:05  <andythenorth> yes
18:15:11  <andythenorth> just keeping up with trunk
18:15:22  <TrueBrain> which makes total sense btw
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18:16:35  <peter1138> The savegame conflict is easy to fix.
18:16:49  <peter1138> I'm not sure what's needed for the sprites, though.
18:16:50  <frosch123> TrueBrain: so, would eints directly push OpenTTD/OpenTTD ?
18:17:21  <TrueBrain> frosch123: or you really would like to accept a PR every day?
18:18:01  *** DarkSSHClone has quit IRC
18:18:09  <frosch123> peter1138:  09f41da863c replaced a few sprites, so i guess use the master file and readd the new nrt sprites
18:18:32  <TrueBrain> most patches apply nicely btw
18:20:15  <andythenorth> peter1138: it's just the tram icon at sprite 178
18:21:23  <Wolf01> <TrueBrain> I could figure out Wolf01's mess :P <- :*
18:21:54  <TrueBrain> dont forget to read the line following ;)
18:22:01  <Wolf01> <3
18:23:25  <Wolf01> I would start fresh as a single patch, as master with remotes, branches only for working on features
18:24:55  <Wolf01> Let me check which unpublished branches I have too :D
18:25:42  <peter1138>
18:25:45  <peter1138> 8 years ago...
18:26:03  <peter1138> Er, 5 I mean.
18:26:06  <peter1138> I can Maths.
18:26:19  <andythenorth> it's probably nearly done then
18:26:26  <peter1138> TrueBrain, how I rebase that onto the new master etc?
18:26:36  <Wolf01> Ok, something I could afford to lose, we could move the NRT repo when you want
18:26:41  <peter1138> (leaving that repo read-only, obviously)
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18:27:41  <TrueBrain> okay, andythenorth, it is not that bad
18:27:44  <TrueBrain> what I did is this:
18:28:03  <TrueBrain> git rebase --onto origin/master deprecated/master deprecated/road-and-tram-types
18:28:08  <TrueBrain> of the 229 patches it applies
18:28:10  <TrueBrain> only 20 conflict
18:28:19  <TrueBrain> the harest are the ones with grf/png changes (binaries)
18:28:22  <TrueBrain> ~8 of them
18:28:29  <TrueBrain> 2 were MSVC project changes
18:28:35  <TrueBrain> the rest were conflicts even I could resolve :P
18:28:37  <andythenorth> some of them just needed openttd.grf rebuilt iirc
18:28:51  <TrueBrain> so if someone goes through that slowly, it is done in a few
18:28:58  <TrueBrain> not the fanciest work, but .. it is also not terrible
18:29:17  <TrueBrain> owh, and a dutch.txt conflict and a greek.txt conflict
18:29:49  <TrueBrain> mainly it seems there was a savegame bump and something changes in master related to road vehicles
18:29:54  <TrueBrain> so that gives a bit of conflicting
18:29:56  <peter1138> Ah, that command "worked"
18:30:07  <TrueBrain> so it is not too bad andythenorth :)
18:30:37  <andythenorth> we will try harder next time
18:30:42  <andythenorth> to be bad :)
18:30:45  <andythenorth> give you challenges
18:30:58  <TrueBrain> what is weird, how-ever, that the first commit is now a revert :D
18:30:58  <andythenorth> I will revert some merges
18:31:03  <TrueBrain> something about gui branch
18:31:07  <andythenorth> reverting merges is always fun later
18:31:18  <peter1138> git reset HEAD~1
18:31:21  <peter1138> is how i revert :p
18:31:37  <andythenorth> git revert [merge] is how I do it
18:31:39  <Wolf01> :D
18:31:41  <andythenorth> followed by trip to docs
18:31:48  <andythenorth> to fix what I broke
18:31:49  <TrueBrain> so andythenorth, if you want to make your branch pull-request worthy, that would be my advise to do
18:32:16  <andythenorth> ok thanks :)
18:32:29  <andythenorth> I saved it to the 'finish NRT' ticket
18:33:04  <andythenorth> today is not the day for me to try, for $reasons
18:33:09  <TrueBrain> :)
18:33:26  <TrueBrain> just enjoy the fact knowing it is not helpless
18:35:01  <andythenorth> it's never helpless :)
18:35:17  <andythenorth> we could always have commited the diff from 229 patches, one at a time :P
18:36:12  <TrueBrain> that is what rebasing does :)
18:36:29  <TrueBrain> just with the power of git, and his very good auto-conflict resolving
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18:45:23  <TrueBrain> frosch123: are the indents in michi_cc's patch really wrong, or is it GitHub? I couldnt figure out ..
18:45:31  <TrueBrain> it seems GitHub doesnt really fancy tabs
18:45:47  <LordAro> github does do weird things with tags
18:45:50  <LordAro> tabs*
18:45:54  <peter1138> GitHub is not auto converting from tabs to spaces is it?
18:46:05  <LordAro> if you add .patch to the commit url, you get raw diff
18:47:04  <TrueBrain> ah
18:47:05  <peter1138> There's definitely spaces in that.
18:47:08  <TrueBrain> there indeed I see the indents are wrong
18:47:12  <TrueBrain> that is a bit annoying
18:47:36  <TrueBrain> frosch123: let me rephrase: why didn't the commit-checker pick up that spaces were used instead of tabs? :D
18:49:06  <glx> svn hook refused spaces IIRC
19:04:31  <Wolf01> Was PAX this weekend?
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19:11:42  <frosch123> TrueBrain: we have lots of that in 3rdparty and in some ini files
19:12:02  <frosch123> i could add it, but may make it hard for some files
19:12:46  <LordAro> not difficult to exclude a folder
19:12:55  <LordAro> or certain filetypes
19:14:43  <frosch123> <- those are the files which have some lines with two leading blanks
19:14:56  <frosch123> (one leading blank is common in all doxygen)
19:15:40  <frosch123> possibly we could make the check only for *h,*hpp,*cpp
19:15:59  <frosch123> and not 3rdparty
19:16:15  <frosch123> maybe someone makes a PR :)
19:17:51  <frosch123> <- you just need to comment in that testcase
19:17:56  <frosch123> and then make it work again :p
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19:31:21  <peter1138> Oh god the conflicts.
19:31:44  <frosch123> rgb patch?
19:31:50  <peter1138> Yes :D
19:31:58  <peter1138> I should drop it anyway, it's not useful.
19:32:07  <LordAro> :o
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19:34:25  <andythenorth> so when do I get issue editing rights TrueBrain? :D
19:34:42  <Wolf01> Don't :D
19:35:19  <andythenorth> there are 382 open
19:35:25  <andythenorth> I reckon I can reduce that
19:35:35  <andythenorth> ~200 would be good
19:35:55  <andythenorth> invalidation is the least-effort way to solve an issue ;)
19:36:21  <Wolf01> 1-5 bugs, ~100 suggestions is about right
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19:41:52  <TrueBrain> andythenorth: frosch123 is in charge .. ask him :)
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19:44:33  <andythenorth> I don't know if frosch123 approves of my work on Flyspray
19:44:38  <andythenorth> I removed about 500 issues :P
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19:45:14  <andythenorth> I think I have the answer :P
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20:05:57  <frosch123> how rude, 20 minutes no internet
20:06:10  <frosch123> i considered reading a book
20:07:47  <frosch123> andythenorth: if someone knows how permissions work on github (i don't), i am fine with you and lord closing tasks :)
20:09:16  <TrueBrain> I think that they can also approve prs in that case .. do we care?
20:12:00  <frosch123> the "team" stuff only talks about cloning and pushing
20:12:08  <frosch123> no mention of issues and pr
20:12:18  <peter1138> Damn, doing a rebase and got one of the previous fixes wrong ;(
20:13:00  <peter1138> I guess... recompile between rebase --continue :p
20:25:37  <TrueBrain> permission table dhows write means also closing issues
20:26:11  <frosch123> the protect branches also allows assigning some teams
20:26:27  <frosch123> but i do not find unambiguous docs
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20:27:15  <andythenorth> I don't want write :P
20:27:18  <TrueBrain> I am sure they will behave ..njust put them in another team :)
20:27:29  <andythenorth> can you ban me with a post-commit hook?
20:27:52  <TrueBrain> we know where they live :p
20:27:55  <peter1138> Heh
20:28:10  <andythenorth> I deliberately got locked out of our production servers at work
20:28:19  <TrueBrain> I prefer post commit punishments
20:28:21  <andythenorth> then I can't be expected to fix things
20:28:30  <andythenorth> which means I won't make Friday mistakes
20:29:03  <andythenorth> I've done dumb stuff even just with fat fingers
20:29:13  <TrueBrain> havent we all
20:29:30  <TrueBrain> part of being iTer
20:29:54  <peter1138> Hmm, weird, network connection dropped. On my LAN :S
20:29:54  <andythenorth> I sank a Landrover and two tractors in quicksand once
20:29:58  <andythenorth> that wasn't ops though :P
20:30:16  <frosch123> how to call the team? "friends"? "cats"? "slaves"? "tributaries"?
20:30:27  <TrueBrain> slaves
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20:30:43  <TrueBrain> cats sounds fine too
20:30:55  <andythenorth> 'editors'
20:31:09  <frosch123> that would even make sense :p
20:31:13  <andythenorth> ha ha can I be a project manager?
20:31:14  <andythenorth> :D
20:31:21  <TrueBrain> ohoh
20:31:29  <andythenorth> the failure of OpenTTD is because it has no project manager, right? o-O
20:31:38  <andythenorth> I remember those threads
20:31:44  <peter1138> Nah, it's because I lost my patches.
20:31:45  <frosch123> there was only one
20:31:48  <peter1138> At least, the ones that finished it.
20:31:59  <frosch123> *one thread
20:32:43  <TrueBrain> lol
20:32:46  <frosch123> andythenorth: github seems to have a manager role, which is not allowed to do anything but view/edit billing information
20:32:49  <TrueBrain> so much drama
20:33:08  <andythenorth> ha
20:33:15  <andythenorth> managers just pay for stuff
20:33:33  <frosch123> <- so weird
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20:33:55  <TrueBrain> what part?
20:34:02  <frosch123> the billing manager column
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20:34:59  <andythenorth> probably so you can let finance in without giving them access to src
20:35:09  <andythenorth> preserves role segregation for ISO
20:35:32  <andythenorth> probably genuinely useful :P
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20:36:00  <TrueBrain> someone gave them enough momey for it
20:36:20  <frosch123> or they needed it themself
20:36:39  <frosch123> but yes, looks somewhat ad-hoc
20:37:27  <andythenorth> I seem to have a zombie process on a BSD-like OS
20:37:28  <andythenorth> wtf
20:37:46  <andythenorth> it's running in the UI, but doesn't show in top
20:39:14  <andythenorth> fuck it restart
20:39:26  <andythenorth> Apple is in a low point of quality again, like 20 years ago
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21:03:14  <Wolf01> Got rid of the zombie?
21:07:49  <andythenorth> shutdown -h now
21:07:58  <andythenorth> nothing else would kill it
21:08:35  <andythenorth> my anti-virus still isn't working, but the zombie is gone
21:09:00  <Wolf01> Ha
21:09:19  <andythenorth> I have to run the AV scan manually :P
21:09:26  <andythenorth> it's scheduling tool won't start
21:17:05  <peter1138> You should run Windows.
21:17:10  <peter1138> Far more reliable.
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21:17:59  <andythenorth> people who've switched say it is
21:18:08  <andythenorth> and a better UI
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21:18:23  <peter1138> Hmm, I got jenkins to run my unit tests automatically finally.
21:18:26  <andythenorth> :)
21:18:47  <peter1138> And half fail because they need extra bits that aren't in the unit test project. Good job.
21:20:14  <peter1138> Hah, there's an MS SQL server connection string in there. That hasn't been used for 4 years.
21:20:37  <andythenorth> door_bbboxes should be door_bboxes
21:20:51  <andythenorth> but on a £2500 Mac laptop, working keys are not a feature
21:20:59  <andythenorth> it's a joke
21:22:49  * andythenorth is now just waiting for a credible alternative to macOS
21:22:57  <andythenorth> then I can switch
21:25:10  <andythenorth> Macs use to cost £1200, and have a working keyboard
21:25:16  * andythenorth should stop whining
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21:49:00  <Wolf01> 'night
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