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00:04:35 *** HerzogDeXtEr has quit IRC 00:22:47 *** Flygon has joined #openttd 00:42:26 *** FLHerne has quit IRC 00:52:51 *** debdog has quit IRC 00:59:05 *** debdog has joined #openttd 01:09:06 *** Thedarkb-X40 has quit IRC 01:26:24 *** WWacko1976-work has joined #openttd 02:08:56 *** glx has quit IRC 02:15:25 *** Pikka has joined #openttd 02:24:28 *** muffindrake1 has joined #openttd 02:26:21 *** muffindrake has quit IRC 02:52:14 *** snail_UES_ has joined #openttd 04:43:31 *** snail_UES_ has quit IRC 05:31:33 *** ToffeeYogurtPots has joined #openttd 05:37:12 *** Cubey has quit IRC 05:42:42 *** andythenorth has joined #openttd 05:43:41 <andythenorth> o/ 06:27:59 *** Wacko1976 has quit IRC 06:53:52 *** WWacko1976-work has quit IRC 07:00:19 *** TheMask96- has joined #openttd 07:04:07 *** WWacko1976-work has joined #openttd 07:07:20 *** TheMask96 has quit IRC 07:21:29 *** ToffeeYogurtPots has quit IRC 07:28:14 *** andythenorth has quit IRC 07:54:17 <Arveen> happy Friday the 13th everyone 08:01:51 *** andythenorth has joined #openttd 08:05:12 <Pikka> o/ 08:05:37 <andythenorth> lo Pikka 08:05:42 <Pikka> lo! 08:05:51 <andythenorth> I closed some of your issues :) 08:05:55 <andythenorth> you are now issue free :) 08:06:10 <Pikka> says you 08:06:16 <Pikka> what issues did I have? 08:06:25 <andythenorth> https://github.com/OpenTTD/OpenTTD/issues/4799 08:07:15 <Pikka> oh dear 08:07:30 <andythenorth> https://github.com/OpenTTD/OpenTTD/issues/5471 08:08:06 <Pikka> yes 08:08:39 <andythenorth> there are also a bunch of newgrf ponies 08:08:46 <andythenorth> from George and Michael 08:08:55 <andythenorth> which I don't know whether to close or not 08:09:04 <andythenorth> fact is, opening a ticket doesn't get the feature added 08:10:39 <Pikka> true so 08:11:25 <__ln__> speaking of inflation, does it still work the way that if i choose to start my game in e.g. 2050, all vehicles cost a billion but the the initial loan is still £10k? (and maximum loan is barely enough to buy one vehicle) 08:11:51 <Pikka> I don't think it ever worked that way 08:12:12 <Pikka> unless you're playing with a newgrf that makes vehicles cost a billion in 2050 08:12:13 <__ln__> i do think it worked somewhat that way 08:12:43 <__ln__> and obviously i didn't mean a literal billion, but "a lot" compared to how much money you can loan. 08:12:48 <Pikka> inflation starts from the year you start the game. if you start in 2050 the initial loan won't be inflated, but neither will the vehicle costs 08:13:41 <__ln__> gotta check how it works when i get home 08:32:13 <andythenorth> https://github.com/OpenTTD/OpenTTD/issues/5996 08:32:48 <andythenorth> ^ I kind of agree with that, but eh, unix shell doesn't provide confirmation of changes 08:32:52 <andythenorth> 'worse is better' 08:33:09 <andythenorth> 'reload_newgrfs' -> "15 newgrfs have been reloaded" 08:33:14 <andythenorth> seems redundant really 08:38:17 <peter1138> Should reply with failure if not successful 08:39:01 <peter1138> set without a parameter should be invalid 08:39:12 <peter1138> should be get parameter for that 08:39:22 <peter1138> mind you it's not an api is it 08:40:39 <andythenorth> keep or close? 08:40:51 *** roidal has joined #openttd 08:42:49 <planetmaker> oh, we have all issues imported from flyspray. That's great :) 08:44:45 <peter1138> planetmaker, yes! 08:44:50 <peter1138> and the repo! 08:45:05 <peter1138> welcome ;p 08:45:19 <peter1138> Of course, andythenorth's been closing them willynilly ;) 08:45:40 <andythenorth> Truebrain too :P 08:48:41 <andythenorth> peter1138: enhanced bouys? o_O Or just better docks? https://github.com/OpenTTD/OpenTTD/issues/4792 08:48:44 <andythenorth> docks on water :P 09:11:14 <andythenorth> if I click 'go to depot' could a train re-evaluate its path? https://github.com/OpenTTD/OpenTTD/issues/3000 09:11:34 <andythenorth> I work around that behaviour with signal placement, but it's annoying ^ 09:12:08 <andythenorth> manually reversing the train causes a path evaluation obvs. 09:12:22 <LordAro> at what point do you just close all of them? :p 09:14:16 <andythenorth> when they're done 09:14:19 <andythenorth> or invalid 09:16:03 <andythenorth> I think there are about 100 which are legit *and* somebody might actually do them 09:19:08 <peter1138> andythenorth, just better docks. Buoys as docks is stupid. 09:19:26 <andythenorth> I think so 09:19:41 <peter1138> Point #3 is interesting though. 09:19:56 <andythenorth> Yes 09:20:00 <andythenorth> but docks also 09:20:03 <andythenorth> 1 tile docks 09:20:08 <peter1138> Sure. 09:20:14 <andythenorth> build on water, anywhere 09:20:24 <andythenorth> no sprites 09:20:30 <andythenorth> no newgrf spec needed 09:20:31 <peter1138> Anywhere... hmm, not quite. 09:20:35 <andythenorth> well 09:20:44 <andythenorth> not on water that has other things on it 09:21:05 <andythenorth> hmm 09:21:10 <andythenorth> actually my idea is terrible 09:21:14 <peter1138> I think a dock needs to be next to land. Enforcing that with just a single tile is tricky. 09:21:26 <peter1138> And it needs to be visible. 09:21:34 <andythenorth> I think it would be nice to build docks at sea, for fishing grounds and so on 09:21:40 <andythenorth> or it might just be tedious :P 09:21:44 <peter1138> Don't fishing grounds have built in docks? 09:21:54 <andythenorth> they do, but they suck 09:21:57 <andythenorth> heliport 09:22:04 <peter1138> Heliport? 09:22:11 <andythenorth> https://github.com/OpenTTD/OpenTTD/issues/5682 09:22:54 <andythenorth> helicopter fishing bothers people 09:23:13 <peter1138> So a fishing grounds can have helicopters "landing" there? 09:23:13 <peter1138> o_O 09:23:21 <andythenorth> yes 09:23:24 <andythenorth> it's the spec 09:23:35 <peter1138> Fix the spec. 09:23:41 <andythenorth> also accepts passengers by default 09:23:47 <andythenorth> so I can deliver pax to fishing ground 09:23:56 <andythenorth> like in places where they kill political prisoners that way 09:24:06 <andythenorth> charming 09:24:27 <andythenorth> just let player build the station I think 09:24:31 <peter1138> Do they just use the 18h tile and get the same behaviour? 09:24:38 <andythenorth> yes 09:24:47 <andythenorth> steel mill doesn't have built in stations eh 09:24:47 <peter1138> I guess fixing the spec won't fix the existing newgrfs. 09:24:48 <peter1138> Hmm 09:24:59 <andythenorth> I like 1 tile docks, built on water 09:25:12 <andythenorth> but then...how does newbie player get harbour graphics? 09:25:18 <andythenorth> it's logical, but stupid also 09:26:03 <peter1138> Fix the spec to allow fishing grounds etc to not have a helipad/passenger bullshit 09:26:10 <peter1138> Then get the newgrfs fixed eventually. 09:27:10 <andythenorth> there's something where having a station shared between all companies messes up cdist too 09:27:13 <andythenorth> I'll look 09:28:05 <peter1138> Probably. 09:28:13 <andythenorth> can't find it :P 09:28:45 <peter1138> That's "relatively" "simple", "just" tag cargo chains with company id in stations. 09:28:50 <peter1138> Disallows cargo sharing then. 09:29:03 <peter1138> Ish. 09:29:22 <peter1138> Dunno how you'd treat cargo production. 09:29:46 <peter1138> I guess station rating is per-station as well, not per company @ station. 09:29:58 <peter1138> So oilrigs are broken already :D 09:30:34 <andythenorth> somewhat 09:30:37 <andythenorth> it's all terrible :) 09:30:40 <andythenorth> and yet it's fun 09:31:46 <andythenorth> __ln__: is this still? https://github.com/OpenTTD/OpenTTD/issues/4449 09:34:21 <__ln__> andythenorth: unless the patch by minexew has been applied since, i assume it still is. though i haven't tried ottd in a while, especially not in fullscreen. 09:35:16 <andythenorth> thanks 09:36:31 <__ln__> i could look at it this weekend, and see if i could improve the two points i brought up myself 09:37:26 <andythenorth> :) 09:41:19 *** arahael has joined #openttd 09:41:44 <arahael> What are some good rail designs I should look at? I have a really, really long two-way track... And I have traffic jams. :( 09:42:12 <arahael> I'm thinking of making four-track tracks, with the inner two bi-directional, rather than the classic two-track tracks. 09:42:43 <andythenorth> I like one-track-per-train :D 09:42:48 <andythenorth> works really well 09:42:54 <andythenorth> quite a lot of space needed :P 09:42:59 <arahael> What's the fun in that? ;) 09:43:17 <arahael> I'm trying to make *every* coal station service the one station. 09:43:23 <andythenorth> fair 09:44:01 <andythenorth> https://wiki.openttdcoop.org/Main_Page 09:44:16 <arahael> I forget how big I made it... I think it's 1024x1024, but I've only worked the one edge. 09:44:22 <arahael> Thanks, will check that out! 09:44:40 <andythenorth> can get lost in there :) 09:48:35 <arahael> Yeah, I'm looking for the track designs. :) 09:50:15 <Eddi|zuHause> <andythenorth> there's something where having a station shared between all companies messes up cdist too <-- cdist should have no problem with shared stations. just transfer payment is broken 09:51:33 <arahael> Only one company in this came. :) 09:51:35 <arahael> *game 09:51:47 <arahael> My big problem is that the simple two-line track just jams. 09:51:50 <arahael> Frequently. 09:52:22 <arahael> So the trains are always stopping.... Then they get to *half* their max speed before they stop again. 09:56:08 <peter1138> Is it worth redirecting https://bugs.openttd.org/task/XXXX to https://github.com/OpenTTD/OpenTTD/issues/XXXX? 09:57:06 *** FLHerne has joined #openttd 10:00:11 <Eddi|zuHause> might need an alternate way to read the archived flyspray then? 10:01:52 * andythenorth biab 10:01:54 *** andythenorth has quit IRC 10:10:58 <peter1138> Eddi|zuHause, isn't everything (in the openttd project) migrated? 10:11:11 <peter1138> I guess it is easier to read, but. 10:11:32 <Eddi|zuHause> dunno 10:20:19 *** andythenorth has joined #openttd 10:23:46 * arahael wonders if a 100% rating is possible (for cargo, at a train station) 10:24:53 <Eddi|zuHause> temporary with advertising 10:25:21 <arahael> I ignore the towns entirely in this game. 10:25:33 <arahael> Can I make trains unload faster? 10:25:49 <Eddi|zuHause> no 10:26:28 <andythenorth> you can with newgrf 10:26:37 <andythenorth> but it's not just click a button :) 10:28:35 <arahael> I was hoping that there was something in the game that let me. :) Like perhaps, shorter trains. 10:29:09 <arahael> With this particular line, my absolute bottleneck is the unloading speed. 10:29:21 <andythenorth> what's your drop off station look like? o_O 10:29:25 <arahael> (Only one track in the station - it's a 7-track station, but I can only reserve one) 10:29:27 <Eddi|zuHause> as long as the train is not longer than the platform, train length has no influence 10:29:56 <arahael> andythenorth: The tracks fan out and fan in. 10:30:03 <arahael> (For the most part) 10:30:05 <andythenorth> is it ro-ro? 10:30:11 <arahael> What's that? 10:30:51 <Eddi|zuHause> arahael: before you're thinking about quad-tracking your line, you should think about optimizing your station. a single track can easily fill 3 platforms 10:31:35 <arahael> Eddi|zuHause: Yeah, this close to the station I have a naive quad-tracked line. Fans out to 6 platforms. 10:31:38 <Eddi|zuHause> sometimes even more 10:31:52 <andythenorth> https://wiki.openttd.org/Railway_station#Ro-Ro 10:31:54 <arahael> Perhaps I should add more tracks to the station, I'm not in classic TTD anymore. 10:32:07 <Eddi|zuHause> depending on how fast your trains accelerate out of the station 10:32:18 <arahael> Ah, yes, it's a ro-ro station. 10:32:49 <arahael> Hang on, let me make a screenshot. 10:33:33 <arahael> https://www.dropbox.com/s/9943ingyt9zqsp9/Screenshot%202018-04-13%2020.32.51.png?dl=0 10:34:18 <arahael> Sorry, let me try again, without the stupid finance. :) 10:35:03 <arahael> https://www.dropbox.com/s/ippebk1n4nafvj2/Screenshot%202018-04-13%2020.34.48.png?dl=0 <-- Much better. 10:35:37 <Eddi|zuHause> that depot and tight curves are surely a bottleneck 10:36:07 <arahael> Which one? 10:36:16 <arahael> I didn't realise the curves were that tight? 10:36:22 <Eddi|zuHause> all of them 10:36:43 <Eddi|zuHause> do you have original or realistic acceleration? 10:36:56 *** debdog has quit IRC 10:37:04 <arahael> I haven't changed it, so probably original? 10:37:20 <arahael> I basically downloaded openttd, and got to playing. :) 10:38:36 <Eddi|zuHause> i suggest realistic, original has this annoying habit that every tiny 1 tile climb slows down your trains massively. but with realistic you really need to look at your curve radius 10:38:55 <arahael> Hmm, interesting. 10:39:14 <arahael> Looks like the default setting is realistic, afterall. 10:39:16 <Eddi|zuHause> where a "curve" is anything where your train turns more than once in the same direction 10:39:30 <arahael> And what's a "tight" curve? 10:39:48 *** debdog has joined #openttd 10:39:50 <arahael> Eg, \/ would be a tight curve, but \_/ is not? 10:40:03 <Eddi|zuHause> a "tight" curve is anything where your train slows down below its top speed 10:40:20 <Eddi|zuHause> could be \_/, could be \___/ or even more 10:41:01 <arahael> At what point would it start to slow down? 10:41:26 <Eddi|zuHause> there's a table in the code that maps distance between curve pieces to speed limits 10:42:19 <Eddi|zuHause> i don't have it memorized, and it's different for trains and maglev 10:42:36 <arahael> I just tested that out.. Made one of those curves far bigger - it makes a big difference. 10:44:41 <arahael> I think I'm going to play with that, focusing on getting the train the **** out of the station. 10:52:37 <andythenorth> hmm 10:52:43 <andythenorth> flashing rear light for trains 10:53:02 <andythenorth> can't use the red on-off palette cycle for crossings 10:53:07 <andythenorth> shame 10:53:22 <andythenorth> can I detect if 'full animation' is off ? 10:53:58 <andythenorth> looks like display_options ANIMATION 10:55:02 <arahael> Eddi|zuHause: How's this one? https://www.dropbox.com/s/7u7idw2vmb1fxpf/Screenshot%202018-04-13%2020.54.02.png?dl=0 10:55:29 <arahael> I guess I now need to optimise the loading a bit more. 10:55:59 <arahael> But it's keeping up with demand anyway, now. 10:56:03 <Eddi|zuHause> that looks fine, but now i would move the station away from the border and extend the other side too 10:57:04 <arahael> How many tiles should I shift it? 10:57:39 <Eddi|zuHause> and add more tracks while at it 10:58:04 <arahael> It's not really the bottlenck. 10:58:13 <arahael> The bottlenck is my network jamming. 11:00:48 <arahael> I've connected every coal station on this side (edge, really) of the map: https://www.dropbox.com/s/lonbq0g7vum7i27/Screenshot%202018-04-13%2020.59.47.png?dl=0 11:01:29 <Eddi|zuHause> i would definitely remove the S-curve from the entry 11:01:52 <Eddi|zuHause> i.e move the bridges to the left, and the station to the right, until it's straight 11:02:22 <arahael> How many tiles of the power station do I need to cover? 11:02:35 <arahael> Just the one? 11:02:42 <Eddi|zuHause> use the ? tool to find out which tiles accept coal 11:03:24 <Eddi|zuHause> you need to cover one tile that accepts coal 11:03:47 <arahael> So just one tile in the power station? (The ? tool doesn't really seem to show anything useful?) 11:04:05 <Eddi|zuHause> some tiles don't accept coal 11:04:30 <arahael> Ah, I see! 11:04:41 <arahael> The dialogue changes completely. 11:05:04 <arahael> Most of the tiles didn't accept coal, so I assumed that was the regular dialog. :) 11:05:27 <arahael> Looks like I can shift it by 5. 11:05:39 <Eddi|zuHause> some industries are a bit weird that way 11:05:51 <Eddi|zuHause> it's even worse for oil refineries 11:06:27 <Eddi|zuHause> because there's only like 2 tiles in that giant industry that actually accept oil 11:14:53 <andythenorth> can I use a remap sprite in a layer to knock out a colour? 11:15:06 <andythenorth> e.g. one of the pinks like 226? 11:15:18 <andythenorth> I want to use false colour to aid drawing, then remove it 11:15:51 <Eddi|zuHause> yes, that should work 11:16:03 <andythenorth> I can do it in PIL trivially, but eh 11:16:40 <Eddi|zuHause> well, i don't know about layers, but in general, i did successfully remap a magic pink to a real colour before 11:18:00 <andythenorth> https://newgrf-specs.tt-wiki.net/wiki/NML:Vehicles#Composing_vehicles_from_multiple_sprites 11:18:06 <andythenorth> I need to pass a specific palette 11:18:09 <andythenorth> hmm 11:18:21 <andythenorth> I can do this in PIL in 3-4 lines 11:18:27 <andythenorth> but then I don't learn much 11:19:04 <Eddi|zuHause> well, yes, nmlc will reject pngs with wrong palette 11:19:30 <andythenorth> nah I mean in the switch expression 11:19:34 <andythenorth> there's an option to remap there 11:20:12 <andythenorth> not sure how palettes are defined 11:20:14 <arahael> Eddi|zuHause: https://www.dropbox.com/s/2gex9ndw8glctie/Screenshot%202018-04-13%2021.19.42.png?dl=0 It's quite a bit better, actually. 11:21:51 <andythenorth> arahael: it's much less fun, but boats have infinite capacity :D 11:22:03 <andythenorth> until you run out of CPU power :P 11:22:54 <arahael> Heh, yeah: They can even overlap each other, I know - but I don't do non-fun. :) 11:23:43 <Eddi|zuHause> arahael: alright, as next optimisation step, i would consider removing the X-crossings between parallel tracks. the game is not good with balancing choices between tracks, so they do more harm than good usually 11:24:05 <arahael> Oh, wow. 11:24:21 <arahael> Are there any alternatives, or just flat out remove them? 11:24:37 *** Flygon has quit IRC 11:25:05 <Eddi|zuHause> arahael: if you have a quad main track, you should allow the trains to make a choice when entering the main line, but once they made this choice, they should commit to it 11:25:42 <arahael> My bright idea was that in the event of a jam, they could switch to the free track. :( 11:26:23 <Eddi|zuHause> yeah, but like people weaving through traffic, that might look like they get through faster, but they cause ripple effects in the traffic that slows it down for everyone 11:26:53 <arahael> *sigh*. 11:28:02 <arahael> So how would I get them to commit to the right track to start with? Remember, this track goes all the way along the edge. (Not quad all the way out... Only the tiny bit nearest the station is quad, at the moment) 11:28:06 <Eddi|zuHause> managing this kind of flexible traffic correctly is really hard 11:29:14 <arahael> It just jammed again, though on the quad track, it's fairly obvious why it jams. Resolving the jam on the much longer dual-track is much harder: https://www.dropbox.com/s/8k4lpbrr5qivx85/Screenshot%202018-04-13%2021.28.28.png?dl=0 11:29:44 <arahael> You'll see how I've got the inner tracks fully bi-directional, and the other-track strictly in their direction? 11:29:55 <arahael> I was hoping that design might work. 11:30:50 <Eddi|zuHause> investigating jams is tricky, because you might need to look at the last train that got through to isolate the cause of the jam 11:32:18 <Eddi|zuHause> but like i said, X-crossings mostly do more harm than good. and bi-directional pieces of track are even worse 11:32:43 <arahael> I'll have to remove them, then. Is there still value in doing quad tracks? 11:32:53 <Eddi|zuHause> yes 11:33:53 <arahael> Awesome - I'll get right onto that, then! 11:34:09 <arahael> Just gotta sort out this other nearby station, the coal output has become massive. 11:35:01 <Eddi|zuHause> the important bit about the design of a quad-track mainline is that you must make sure that trains never ever stop on the main line 11:35:33 <Eddi|zuHause> so you need to look at things like priority signals when merging branch lines into the main line 11:36:22 <Eddi|zuHause> and when the pickup station on a branch line is full, you need to have enough space that trains can queue up outside of the main line 11:37:01 *** roidal_ has joined #openttd 11:37:12 <arahael> I've never really played with priority signals. 11:37:23 <arahael> Is there a good discussion about them? 11:37:43 <Eddi|zuHause> mind you, i would never play like this :) 11:38:34 <arahael> Heh, naturally. :) 11:38:41 <arahael> You're a one-track-per-train guy, yes? 11:38:47 <Eddi|zuHause> no 11:39:20 <arahael> What's your thing? 11:40:32 <Eddi|zuHause> my maps look something like this http://users.informatik.uni-halle.de/~krause/Loisachkirchen%20Transport,%205.%20Nov%201988.png 11:41:30 <arahael> The previous game I played... Was 10 years ago. :) 11:41:43 <arahael> Your map is quite a bit smaller. :) 11:42:27 <Eddi|zuHause> yes, that is a bit unusual for me, but at that time, i needed a map size that i could fill relatively quickly 11:42:31 <arahael> Ah, so you're more into connecting the industries. 11:42:48 <Eddi|zuHause> that game was 90% passengers 11:42:57 <arahael> I wanted to do that... But given the size of the map, and I was just really tired, so I was thinking: "Lets do the coal. Just the coal..." 11:43:03 <arahael> Passengers are remarkably easy. 11:43:12 <arahael> But you end up having to do city design. 11:43:20 <arahael> Which is just an irritation, for me. 11:43:55 *** roidal has quit IRC 11:43:58 <Eddi|zuHause> that game was to test a variant of a cargo destinations patch 11:44:14 <arahael> No idea what that is! :) 11:45:41 <Eddi|zuHause> it makes cargo have an opinion of where it wants to go, instead of the player deciding where to pick it up and drop it off 11:45:59 <arahael> Oh, that would be fun. 11:46:23 <arahael> And realistic. 11:46:33 <andythenorth> nice map Eddi|zuHause 11:46:34 <Eddi|zuHause> the game now includes "cargo distribution" which does that in a sense, but it only considers connections that you actually deliver to 11:46:46 <andythenorth> I don't have the patience for so many bus routes 11:47:24 <Eddi|zuHause> the patch that i tested there went a step further, and considered all possible destinations on the map 11:47:48 <Eddi|zuHause> so if there were two power stations, and you only connected one of them to your network, you would only get half the coal 11:48:35 <arahael> I wonder which is more realistic. 11:49:05 <Eddi|zuHause> which is a nice idea, but it caused all sorts of followup problems like industries closing because their transport rating is too low 11:49:23 <peter1138> Hm, so. 11:49:25 <Eddi|zuHause> and it had performance issues 11:49:38 <peter1138> Github is evil. 11:49:50 <peter1138> Now what? 11:49:52 <Eddi|zuHause> is there a mercurialhub? 11:50:07 <peter1138> I suspect it's the hub part that matters ;p 11:50:15 * arahael is now wondering how best to do intersections at a quad track. 11:50:43 <arahael> Eddi|zuHause: Perhaps the price you get for the cargo could be multiplied by the desirability of that destination, or osmething? 11:50:55 <peter1138> Path signals. Tracks crossing tracks. 11:51:00 <andythenorth> it is evil 11:51:15 <arahael> peter1138: Yes... I figured path signals woudl be involved. :) 11:51:16 <andythenorth> and maintaining our own poor clone of it is evil 11:51:21 <andythenorth> and the internet, broadly, is evil 11:51:39 <peter1138> Yeah, it took me ages to get gitea working properly, still having issues :S 11:51:53 <arahael> peter1138: What's the issue with github, incidentially? 11:52:09 <peter1138> Their ToS/privacy policy upsets some people. 11:52:14 <andythenorth> easy to track individual contributors 11:52:22 <andythenorth> no segmented identity 11:52:51 <arahael> peter1138: Meh, that's part and parcel of being free, I would say? 11:53:05 <andythenorth> aggregated networks are very hostile to people who need to keep parts of their lives separate 11:53:28 <Eddi|zuHause> arahael: price changes like that don't make a lot of sense. you're being paid for transporting. you're not buying the coal at the mine and selling it at the power station 11:54:23 <andythenorth> but github won, so eh 11:54:29 <arahael> Eddi|zuHause: That's a fairly good point. 11:54:42 <arahael> andythenorth: Oh, it's aggregated now? 11:54:57 <andythenorth> your public profile lists all projects you contributed to, afaik 11:55:05 <arahael> Ah, yeah. 11:55:07 <andythenorth> and you are only allowed one username 11:55:08 <peter1138> Yeah, even if it's just a bug report. 11:55:23 <andythenorth> so there are 10 different reasons why that might be bad for some people 11:55:54 <arahael> I did notice that, which annoyed me at the time but I didn't have the energy to care much. 11:56:25 <andythenorth> it's kind of limiting if any of the following apply: 11:56:41 <andythenorth> - it's an infosec attack vector 11:56:53 <andythenorth> - you have to keep paid work and hobby work separate 11:57:02 <andythenorth> - you contribute to politically sensitive projects 11:57:38 <andythenorth> - your contributions could reveal things you want to keep secret, e.g. health status, gender, sexuality, other protected characteristics 11:57:43 <arahael> Luckily, for me, we have our *own* github for work. But I still have the organisation show up on github. :( 11:57:47 <Eddi|zuHause> so you're actively trying to talk me out of creating a github account now? 11:57:48 <andythenorth> - your contributions could make you a target for persistent trolls 11:58:31 <andythenorth> it's basically fine if you're in a group with relatively more privilege, or you just don't give a fuck 11:58:58 <andythenorth> and tech is mostly built by those with relatively more privilege 11:59:08 <arahael> I fully agree. 11:59:10 <andythenorth> so all is for the best in this the best of all possible worlds 11:59:44 <andythenorth> ultimately it's a train game, we're not trying to save the world, so tradeoffs eh 11:59:50 <arahael> I'm part of a (very small) minority, but sadly, such that it feels like I really should be more politically active, yet I don't want to worry too much about how it migh taffect work. Blegh. 12:00:37 *** Flygon has joined #openttd 12:01:07 <andythenorth> social networks are good at limiting political activism only to those with strong views 12:01:18 <andythenorth> they remove any middle ground where consensus could be built 12:01:21 <arahael> I have strong - but very contrary views. :( 12:01:35 <andythenorth> I think social networks are a fairly toxic development 12:01:39 <andythenorth> watching Zuck was interesting 12:01:41 <arahael> They are, yes. 12:02:42 <arahael> Zuck is privilaged as all heck. 12:03:00 <arahael> Luckily, in some ways, so am I. (I have a job, a reliable income, etcetera) 12:03:12 <arahael> Within my minority, that's unusual. 12:03:39 <arahael> (I'm deaf, btw) 12:07:54 * arahael imagines a pin drop. 12:08:39 <andythenorth> born deaf or lost hearing during life? 12:09:12 <Eddi|zuHause> luckily, you don't need hearing in IRC :p 12:10:11 <Eddi|zuHause> i'm starting to think my choice of cheap-o-free mail provider was terrible 12:10:23 <Eddi|zuHause> it doesn't let me send a mail to 40+ recipients at a time 12:10:54 <arahael> andythenorth: I was 1 year old, raised "oral", but now sign. 12:11:28 <andythenorth> Eddi|zuHause: gmail? o_O 12:11:38 <andythenorth> obvs. google get all your stuff 12:11:51 <Eddi|zuHause> not an idea i'm too fancy of 12:12:29 <arahael> andythenorth: Google has it anyway. 12:12:49 <arahael> I use fastmail, but I hear protonmail's good for privacy. 12:13:18 <arahael> So I have a tri-rail track... TWo going one way, one going the other. (Soon to be a quad-rail track). However... 12:13:31 <arahael> Almost every train is using only one of the two incoming tracks. :( 12:13:47 <arahael> I'd say 1 in... 7? Uses the other rail. 12:14:37 <Eddi|zuHause> with two parallel tracks, you need to balance the pathfinder penalties 12:14:45 <arahael> Of course, that 1/7 is fast. 12:14:49 <arahael> Eddi|zuHause: How do I do that? 12:15:12 <Eddi|zuHause> make sure both tracks are roughly the same length, amount of curves, crossings, etc. 12:15:28 <arahael> Hmm, interesting. 12:16:28 <Eddi|zuHause> if they are roughly equal, you now can optimise your merge intersections so trains distribute themselves equally, depending on where the current reservations/red signals are 12:16:59 <Eddi|zuHause> that's where the priority signals come into play 12:17:17 <Eddi|zuHause> so the merging train won't cut off a train on the main line, and choose the other track 12:18:20 <arahael> https://www.dropbox.com/s/r4x64ar32murn5u/Screenshot%202018-04-13%2022.17.53.png?dl=0 :( 12:18:25 <Eddi|zuHause> if you have long signal distance, priority signals are actually not that difficult to do 12:18:57 <arahael> Back in two secs... Gotta go snort some water. 12:20:04 <Eddi|zuHause> i'm having a bit of trouble identifying which side of the track your trains go on 12:23:05 *** [1]sim-al2 has joined #openttd 12:23:06 *** colde_ has joined #openttd 12:23:34 <arahael> Left. 12:23:35 <arahael> I'm Australian. :) 12:23:35 <arahael> So I have two tracks going to the left, and one to the right. 12:23:35 *** sim-al2 has quit IRC 12:23:35 *** colde has quit IRC 12:23:35 *** [1]sim-al2 is now known as sim-al2 12:23:35 *** colde_ is now known as colde 12:27:59 *** TheMask96- has quit IRC 12:28:35 <andythenorth> so a random switch seems to wipe out graphics layers 12:28:45 <andythenorth> wondering if it clears a register somehow 12:30:17 <Eddi|zuHause> arahael: this is a simple priority signal with roughly even choice between tracks https://ibin.co/3yF3ONBJU5Vi.png 12:30:29 *** arahael has quit IRC 12:30:29 *** greeter has quit IRC 12:30:29 *** nauticalnexus has quit IRC 12:30:40 *** TheMask96 has joined #openttd 12:31:00 <Eddi|zuHause> uhm... 12:31:48 *** greeter has joined #openttd 12:31:48 *** arahael has joined #openttd 12:31:48 *** nauticalnexus has joined #openttd 12:32:13 <arahael> Just my luck - that was a netsplit. 12:32:24 <arahael> What did I last say? 12:33:56 <andythenorth> does FORWARD_SELF(0) thrash register 0x100? 12:33:58 <andythenorth> o_O 12:34:27 <arahael> In any case, Eddi|zuHause - my *miniscule* change of moving a signal closer ot the intersection right at the station fixed the weights up. 12:34:29 <arahael> So it's all good. 12:35:00 <arahael> Thanks so much for all your help! :) I have to get to bed about now... 12:35:02 <andythenorth> yeah 12:35:11 <andythenorth> type 84 thrashes register 100 :( https://newgrf-specs.tt-wiki.net/wiki/RandomAction2#count 12:35:17 <andythenorth> that's...annoying 12:36:33 <andythenorth> that means some multi-part vehicles can never have random sprites with layers 12:37:51 <Eddi|zuHause> arahael: my last line before you quit was: this is a simple priority signal with roughly even choice between tracks https://ibin.co/3yF3ONBJU5Vi.png 12:38:10 <arahael> I didn't catch that one. 12:38:12 <arahael> Thanks. 12:38:17 <Eddi|zuHause> before that you were saying you're australian 12:39:38 <arahael> Ah, you lost everything I said, then! Summary: I had two tracks going to the left, one to the right: But adding *one* signal right near the station fixed the weights up completely perfectly. :( 12:40:10 <andythenorth> so why does FORWARD_SELF(1) not trash 0x100? 12:40:30 <arahael> Eddi|zuHause: I don't understand how that 3yF3ONBJU5Vi.png works. 12:41:01 <arahael> I have to get to bed now, though, so perhaps I'll ask again or will do some reading later. 12:41:02 <Eddi|zuHause> arahael: so, trains on the main line come from the bottom right and go to the top left 12:41:25 <Eddi|zuHause> arahael: they treat the exit signal like a normal signal, nothing changes for them 12:41:56 <Eddi|zuHause> arahael: but a train approaching the exit signal on the main line will change that combo signal on the branch line to red, so no train can come there and cut it off 12:42:06 <andythenorth> maybe I have to wait for frosch 12:42:08 <peter1138> andythenorth, use a different register? 12:42:33 <arahael> Eddi|zuHause: Hmm, I think I'll have to study that and give it a play tomorrow. Thanks again for your time! 12:42:33 <Eddi|zuHause> arahael: if both main lines are blocked by approaching or leaving trains, the combo signals both are red, and the entry signal turns red as well, so a train will wait there until one of the sides opens up 12:42:54 <andythenorth> peter1138: spec says 0x100 https://newgrf-specs.tt-wiki.net/wiki/NML:Vehicles#Composing_vehicles_from_multiple_sprites 12:43:04 <arahael> Eddi|zuHause: G'night! 12:45:25 <andythenorth> real proper spec https://newgrf-specs.tt-wiki.net/wiki/Action2/Vehicles#Composing_vehicles_from_multiple_sprites 12:46:27 <andythenorth> I reckon I just don't set count 0 for type 84 random varact2 12:46:32 <andythenorth> problem goes away 12:46:53 *** Wacko1976 has joined #openttd 12:49:36 <andythenorth> yup 12:54:54 *** Wacko1976 has quit IRC 12:57:50 *** snail_UES_ has joined #openttd 12:58:08 <Pikka> andy: don't you need it set to 0? 13:00:45 <andythenorth> I do if I want to read 0x100 13:01:04 <andythenorth> but doing that is a BAD IDEA if I want to use spritelayers 13:01:14 <andythenorth> register collision 13:01:46 <Eddi|zuHause> https://newgrf-specs.tt-wiki.net/wiki/RandomAction2 <-- according to this, FORWARD_SELF(0) reads register 0x100 13:01:49 <andythenorth> yes 13:01:56 <andythenorth> that's why I can't set 0 there 13:02:11 <andythenorth> on the plus side pikka bob, rear lights via layers 13:02:15 <andythenorth> works 13:02:24 <Pikka> o/ 13:02:44 <Eddi|zuHause> andythenorth: then what is the actual problem? 13:03:07 *** snail_UES_ has quit IRC 13:03:07 <andythenorth> the actual problem is incorrectly trying to use 0x100 in two places in the same chain 13:03:20 <andythenorth> the actual solution is trivial, because one of the uses is accidental 13:03:21 <Eddi|zuHause> that's ok, if you do it in the right order 13:03:58 <Pikka> oh, right. if it's non-0 it doesn't read the register 13:04:30 <andythenorth> it's not clear here that FORWARD_SELF(0) reads the register https://newgrf-specs.tt-wiki.net/wiki/NML:Random_switch 13:04:40 <andythenorth> eh 13:04:44 * andythenorth could fix, but chores 13:05:08 <Pikka> yar, makes sense now 13:05:54 <Eddi|zuHause> andythenorth: ah, so you set FORWARD_SELF(0) in the expectation that would read the current vehicle, which just happened to work because 0x100 happened to be 0 all the time 13:06:19 <andythenorth> yes 13:06:32 <andythenorth> docs aren't quite comprehensive enough 13:06:47 <andythenorth> the footnote suggests all values are valid also 13:07:48 <Eddi|zuHause> yeah, i'm expecting it tries to constantify them, and if that fails, stores the result in 0x100 13:08:19 <andythenorth> ...which would nicely clear 0x100 13:08:20 <andythenorth> :) 13:12:09 * andythenorth updated docs 13:13:08 <Eddi|zuHause> probably not the correct way to document it 13:14:28 <andythenorth> probably not, but eh 13:14:41 <andythenorth> dishwasher won't unload itself, and no-one else will document it :P 13:18:29 <Eddi|zuHause> is that clear? https://newgrf-specs.tt-wiki.net/wiki/NML:Random_switch 13:20:06 <andythenorth> yes 13:20:09 <andythenorth> thanks 13:21:15 <Eddi|zuHause> i'm not 100% that's what it does though 13:21:49 <Eddi|zuHause> there's some strange "1 <= random_switch.type_count.value <= 15" test that i'm not sure what it's intended for 13:23:15 <Eddi|zuHause> so if i read it correctly, if it's a constant and that constant is between 1 and 15, it doesn't use 0x100 13:23:21 <Eddi|zuHause> otherwise it overwrites 0x100 13:25:20 <andythenorth> that would make sense somewhat 13:25:39 <Eddi|zuHause> updated 13:26:00 <Eddi|zuHause> i think 1..15 is the range that the NFO expression can handle directly as constants 13:26:41 <Eddi|zuHause> in any case, using a register is a side effect that better be documented correctly :) 13:28:22 <andythenorth> yes that's clear 13:28:26 <andythenorth> thanks 13:30:00 <andythenorth> biab 13:30:00 *** andythenorth has left #openttd 13:34:13 *** supermop_work has joined #openttd 13:36:19 *** sla_ro|master has joined #openttd 13:45:50 <peter1138> Hmm 13:51:56 <supermop_work> yo 13:52:23 *** Alberth has joined #openttd 13:52:23 *** ChanServ sets mode: +o Alberth 14:00:06 *** sim-al2 has quit IRC 14:00:43 *** synchris has joined #openttd 14:12:04 <Pikka> yoyo 14:22:09 <Alberth> o/ 14:49:05 *** Wormnest has joined #openttd 14:56:23 *** Gja has joined #openttd 15:16:07 *** frosch123 has joined #openttd 15:22:35 <supermop_work> this elevator vendor i am working with is named 'rusty doom' 15:24:52 <peter1138> Promising. 15:29:35 *** Thedarkb has joined #openttd 15:42:04 *** Thedarkb has quit IRC 15:43:49 *** Flygon has quit IRC 16:11:05 *** Maarten has quit IRC 16:12:16 *** Maarten has joined #openttd 16:30:00 *** Cubey has joined #openttd 16:40:09 *** glx has joined #openttd 16:40:09 *** ChanServ sets mode: +v glx 16:52:46 *** Progman has joined #openttd 16:53:12 * peter1138 ponders 16:55:40 *** HerzogDeXtEr has joined #openttd 16:55:51 <peter1138> Wonder where to start on NRT. 16:55:55 *** andythenorth has joined #openttd 16:56:33 <peter1138> andythenorth will know 16:56:39 <andythenorth> probably 16:56:50 <andythenorth> TrueBrain: 280 16:57:34 <peter1138> This is messy :( 16:57:43 <andythenorth> peter1138: TB said 'just" do this https://github.com/andythenorth/NotRoadTypes/issues/22#issuecomment-379849291 16:58:02 <peter1138> Perhaps but the history is messy 16:58:14 <andythenorth> we want cleaner commits? 16:58:17 <andythenorth> fewer 'sync' 17:00:13 <peter1138> Fewer unrelated commits. 17:00:28 <peter1138> Fewer fixing of previous commits. 17:01:05 <peter1138> What is a RoadTypeIdentifier? 17:01:36 <frosch123> a tuple of baseroadtype and roadsubtype or so 17:02:17 <frosch123> base being road/tram, subtype being the index in the pool 17:07:36 <peter1138> It's very... organic. 17:08:31 <andythenorth> you could refactor, we have grfs to test with 17:08:34 <andythenorth> and expected behaviour 17:08:39 <peter1138> *nod* 17:08:44 <andythenorth> no unit tests afaik :P 17:08:54 <peter1138> That's normal for ottd :D 17:09:25 <Eddi|zuHause> unit tests are tricky to build for a program that was never desinged with "units" in mind 17:09:42 <andythenorth> well we could have functional tests :P 17:09:50 <andythenorth> I don't fancy writing them though 17:10:05 <andythenorth> I considered if I should write tests for FIRS 17:10:19 <andythenorth> as I am fixing a total clown shoes mistake in the last release :P 17:11:04 <peter1138> I might just go out on the bicycle instead. 17:11:26 <andythenorth> :P 17:13:23 <andythenorth> hmm Jenkins is angry about FIRS 17:13:27 <andythenorth> is my release bad? o_O 17:13:34 <andythenorth> https://jenkins.openttdcoop.org/job/firs/ 17:13:55 <andythenorth> oh I broke hg 17:14:19 <peter1138> Connection refused. 17:14:40 <Eddi|zuHause> 17:07:54 [workspace] $ hg pull --rev default 17:14:42 <Eddi|zuHause> 17:07:54 abort: error: Connection refused 17:14:47 <peter1138> Switch it to git. 17:15:12 <andythenorth> it's tempting 17:15:14 <frosch123> retry :) 17:15:16 <Eddi|zuHause> who is maintaining coop servers right now anyway? 17:15:21 <andythenorth> probably frosch123 17:15:25 <andythenorth> I feel bad 17:15:39 <frosch123> anyway, daily restart cron is still not enough for kallithea 17:15:42 <frosch123> oom all day 17:15:47 <andythenorth> but I am not to be trusted with SSH :P 17:16:38 <Eddi|zuHause> frosch123: sounds like a piece of infrastructure that should be ripped out and replaced with something different 17:16:47 <andythenorth> github :P 17:16:52 <andythenorth> for better or worse 17:17:16 <frosch123> Eddi|zuHause: good idea, please file a PR for https://jenkins.openttdcoop.org/job/OpenTTD/ 17:17:54 <andythenorth> hmm Jenkins refusing my auth creds 17:17:57 <andythenorth> the auth system hates me 17:18:05 <andythenorth> nvm it's building 17:18:13 <Eddi|zuHause> frosch123: i don't understand 17:18:52 <frosch123> Eddi|zuHause: 1. you want more tests, 2. we have a github project for testbuilds of ottd, 3. there was a project on devzone to test various build configurations 17:19:21 <frosch123> 4. if you have time for whining you also have time for that 17:19:48 <TrueBrain> frosch123: you dont even sort on static vs non-static? 17:19:58 <TrueBrain> *bit shocked* :D 17:20:00 <Eddi|zuHause> the problem isn't really the amount of time i have 17:20:03 <TrueBrain> andythenorth: tnx for the spam :D Nice work :) 17:20:20 <andythenorth> who is writing the CONTRIBUTING.md then? 17:20:27 <andythenorth> I have some stuff for it 17:20:41 <frosch123> TrueBrain: the variables are grouped logically, sorting them by external/internal linkage would make the code worse imho 17:20:55 <andythenorth> "We close issues to keep focus, too many issues is overwhelming" 17:21:02 <TrueBrain> frosch123: I cannot believe _ means global 17:21:10 <TrueBrain> that is ... so anti-any-other-pattern-I-know :D 17:21:11 <andythenorth> "A closed issue can be re-opened if you make a good case" 17:21:41 <frosch123> TrueBrain: i think the normal pattern is "never prefix stuff with _, it is reserved for OS and compiler internals" 17:22:02 <TrueBrain> in languages like Python it means private/protected 17:22:04 <TrueBrain> but yeah .. 17:22:27 <TrueBrain> and sorting static vs non-static can really help .. there is normally a huge difference between your publicAPI and your internals 17:22:34 <Eddi|zuHause> does python actually enforce that or is that just a convention? 17:22:36 <TrueBrain> but .. yeah .. I should have checked the coding style before blabbing :D 17:22:40 <TrueBrain> Eddi|zuHause: convention 17:22:53 <frosch123> TrueBrain: i think you are talking about static/non-static in class scope 17:23:05 *** Wolf01 has joined #openttd 17:23:13 <frosch123> i think "static" has 4 meanings in c++14 17:23:13 <Wolf01> Moin 17:23:29 <TrueBrain> frosch123: .... static in my book means: only in this scope (when outside a class etc) 17:23:49 <TrueBrain> so no other cpp file can use it 17:23:57 <TrueBrain> ("private" to that file) 17:24:02 <TrueBrain> ran out of other ways to describe what it does in C :D 17:24:21 <TrueBrain> I know little about C++ ... :( 17:24:53 <frosch123> yes, in source file scope "static" is similar to "private" in classes :) 17:25:16 <TrueBrain> so now you have 2 local variables, 1 global, and 1 local again 17:25:21 <TrueBrain> I would at least assume that had to be grouped 17:25:28 <TrueBrain> so it is more clear what is kept local, and what can be picked up global 17:25:34 <frosch123> they are grouped by meaning, not by access class 17:25:56 <TrueBrain> okay; good to know :) 17:26:12 <frosch123> i also do not sort variables by "int first, then pointers" :p 17:26:14 <TrueBrain> still cannot believe _ means global :P 17:26:26 <Eddi|zuHause> i vaguely remember some language where "static" meant "this variable retains its value through multiple function calls" 17:26:36 <TrueBrain> sorting rule is easy .. alphabet! Done :) 17:26:44 <andythenorth> ok let's get to 200 now 17:26:49 <Wolf01> Eddi|zuHause: yes, php, java, c# 17:26:57 <__ln__> Eddi|zuHause: did the name of that language begin with 'C'? 17:27:24 <TrueBrain> frosch123: I am still surprised :D But I will get over it :) Tnx! 17:27:48 <Eddi|zuHause> __ln__: i'm switching between languages often enough that i cannot associate language features with language names anymore 17:27:58 <frosch123> http://en.cppreference.com/w/cpp/keyword/static <- well, only 3, it felt like there was a 4th 17:28:47 <TrueBrain> yeah, so it is what I asusmed it was, even in C++ 17:29:11 <TrueBrain> it just reads so annoying ... I really learnt to love the visual game you can do with programming languages :) 17:29:16 <TrueBrain> owh well :) Coding style is coding style 17:29:28 <TrueBrain> *mutters something about _ for global ... * 17:29:43 <peter1138> We've always used _ for global. 17:29:49 <Eddi|zuHause> TrueBrain: that one is easy to solve, remove all global variables 17:29:55 <TrueBrain> Eddi|zuHause: go for it 17:30:12 <andythenorth> refactoring is easy when we have so many tests 17:30:16 <andythenorth> oh wait :P 17:30:36 <TrueBrain> I do remember in 2004 there was a lot of debate about anythin in the freaking coding style 17:30:41 <Wolf01> <Eddi|zuHause> TrueBrain: that one is easy to solve, remove all global variables <- I already did it for some 17:30:42 <TrueBrain> that was very painful 17:30:57 <TrueBrain> especially the * placement 17:31:08 <peter1138> Haha, I was just going to comment about that. 17:31:17 <peter1138> One person want it the wrong way. 17:31:27 <peter1138> +ed 17:31:37 <TrueBrain> that person wanted a lot of things against everyone else tbfh 17:31:52 <Eddi|zuHause> i have a name popping up in my head 17:31:56 <frosch123> Stroustrup? 17:32:01 <TrueBrain> but okay .. the project did get a lot better with an established coding style 17:32:07 <TrueBrain> 4 letters 17:32:07 <Eddi|zuHause> not that one 17:32:18 <glx> starting with t 17:32:21 <TrueBrain> if we talk about anything that was annoying in the old days 17:32:23 <TrueBrain> 4 letters 17:32:24 <peter1138> Good movie. 17:32:28 <TrueBrain> yes 17:32:30 <peter1138> So... 17:33:17 <peter1138> I wonder if I should look at the final NRT changes, and then split it up logically. 17:33:48 <TrueBrain> still not over _ .. lol :D Sorry, just a bit flabbergasted 17:33:49 <__ln__> there was one good thing about that though... we immediately got to know what is not funny, and when a discussion has ended. 17:34:32 <peter1138> "Codechange: rogue blank line" 17:34:39 <peter1138> So not even a code change. 17:34:48 *** andythenorth has quit IRC 17:35:05 *** Pikka has quit IRC 17:35:06 *** andythenorth has joined #openttd 17:35:11 <andythenorth> so only 50 'enhancements from flyspray' left TrueBrain 17:35:15 <andythenorth> https://github.com/OpenTTD/OpenTTD/labels/enhancement%20from%20FlySpray 17:35:19 <TrueBrain> nice work there 17:35:23 <Eddi|zuHause> this peer dude seems active again 17:35:29 <andythenorth> the AI and GS, I can't comment so much 17:35:41 <andythenorth> the newgrf, it's just doing hard politics :( 17:36:09 <glx> I tried to fix my PR but it didn't end well 17:36:19 <andythenorth> quite a few about hotkeys https://github.com/OpenTTD/OpenTTD/issues?utf8=%E2%9C%93&q=is%3Aopen+hotkeys 17:37:03 <TrueBrain> glx: I have asked GitHub what is going on, because for some reason after a force push, GitHub is not doing what it says it should be doing 17:37:08 <andythenorth> frosch123: would this be blocked by 'station areas are nonsense' https://github.com/OpenTTD/OpenTTD/issues/2683? o_O 17:37:12 <andythenorth> or am I spreading FUD? 17:37:19 <TrueBrain> but they havent responded yet 17:37:46 <glx> TrueBrain: yes because force push is the usual way to update PR as google told me 17:37:54 <TrueBrain> yup 17:38:05 <TrueBrain> and I think it is really a bug on their side 17:38:26 <TrueBrain> but I use a plugin many others also use, and didnt change this part 17:38:31 <frosch123> andythenorth: my todo list has the item "add option to make catchment area logical, default it to on and hide it in expert/arcane settings" 17:38:38 <Eddi|zuHause> andythenorth: it's easily solved by having a switch delivery/pickup 17:38:43 <glx> on the web side it's correct, but I can't get the PR in github desktop 17:39:13 <frosch123> glx: can you extend your kick script for "easy solved"? 17:39:26 <glx> it shows the old commits instead 17:39:32 <TrueBrain> glx: yup; CI has the same issue 17:41:48 <andythenorth> I assumed JGR would have station coverage, but no 17:41:51 <andythenorth> surprised by that 17:42:04 <frosch123> juanjo may have it 17:42:12 <frosch123> at least i think we talked about it 5 years ago :p 17:42:41 <TrueBrain> glx: only workaround I have found, is the create a new PR :P 17:42:46 <TrueBrain> I really have no clue why it does this 17:42:52 <Eddi|zuHause> well, mathematically speaking, area for pickup is union[each station tile](extend(tile, catchment radius)), whereas area for delivery is extend(enclosing rectangle(all station tiles), catchment radius) 17:42:57 <andythenorth> oh JGR has some kind of zoning 17:43:04 <andythenorth> but I tried to figure it out before 17:43:06 <andythenorth> and couldn't 17:43:23 <Eddi|zuHause> yeah, the zoning patch exists 17:44:26 <Eddi|zuHause> i think it does something slightly different, though 17:44:38 <TrueBrain> andythenorth: can we close 6607? 17:45:09 <andythenorth> TrueBrain: these are the ones where I don't want to touch the politics tbh 17:45:27 <andythenorth> some of Michael and George's requests seem pretty reasonable 17:45:37 <andythenorth> but they're very out of any loop that would get them done 17:45:37 <TrueBrain> lot of requests seem reasonable 17:45:48 <TrueBrain> but ..... keeping them around is not helping either 17:45:51 <andythenorth> no 17:46:03 <TrueBrain> so, will it be implemented in the next year? :D 17:46:05 <andythenorth> no 17:46:09 <andythenorth> I can't do it 17:46:12 <andythenorth> and nobody else wants to 17:46:24 <Eddi|zuHause> we could also unify the two areas, by storing the area as rectangle in the station list, and upon move_to_station call we go through the list of stations and pick one that the house/industry is in, instead of looking in a tileloop around the house/industry 17:46:47 <andythenorth> JGR does have station catchment shown 17:46:49 <andythenorth> so it's done 17:46:53 <TrueBrain> andythenorth: ugh, I see your issue, reading the ticket better 17:46:56 <Eddi|zuHause> that will result in stations getting cargo that previously didn't 17:47:22 <andythenorth> Michael makes requests that I think are totally reasonable 17:47:31 <andythenorth> but he won't get them because he pissed you all off 17:47:38 <andythenorth> so it's a dead ticket 17:48:11 <TrueBrain> 6607 seems like a trivial one for someone new to learn NewGRF, I guess 17:48:58 <TrueBrain> *reads frosch123 commit messages* *reads the code* *puzzled* *head hurts* *Why are you doing this to me* 17:49:17 <andythenorth> I closed https://github.com/OpenTTD/OpenTTD/issues/2683 17:49:20 <TrueBrain> ah, there is another branch check lower 17:49:22 <TrueBrain> lol 17:49:57 <LordAro> frosch123: you could remove the trailing ; as well :p 17:50:07 <andythenorth> this sounds really bad to me, because my judgement is off :P https://github.com/OpenTTD/OpenTTD/issues/3003 17:50:17 <andythenorth> I always freak out about errors :P 17:50:19 <frosch123> hmm true 17:50:26 <TrueBrain> lol 17:51:27 <frosch123> hmm, repushed before jenkins was done 17:51:32 <frosch123> i am sure this breaks stuff :p 17:51:53 <TrueBrain> Jenkins can handle that fine :) 17:52:00 <glx> if you forced everything will break ;) 17:52:18 <frosch123> i did :) 17:52:26 <TrueBrain> you did before without issue 17:52:28 <frosch123> but yes, could also have been a case for squasing 17:52:28 <TrueBrain> its a bit weird 17:53:01 <Eddi|zuHause> so when can we expect DorpsGek to announce merges here? 17:53:22 <TrueBrain> go to #openttd.notice 17:53:33 <Eddi|zuHause> that was not the question 17:53:37 <LordAro> ^^ 17:53:39 <TrueBrain> but an answer nevertheless 17:54:23 <peter1138> You can go your own waaaaaaaaaaaay 17:54:31 <glx> DorpsGek doesn't announce things in .notice anyway 17:54:38 <Eddi|zuHause> i was expectin that in #openttd.notice you wanted to run tests how spammy/reliable it is, and then reenable it here 17:55:15 <TrueBrain> and frosch123's PR now also broke 17:55:20 <TrueBrain> seriously ... what .. the .. fuck ... 17:55:36 <LordAro> which GH plugin are you using? 17:55:39 <glx> it's clearly a github bug 17:55:43 <TrueBrain> not relevant 17:55:48 <TrueBrain> the bug is in the GitHub repo itself 17:56:02 <LordAro> oh right 17:56:03 <LordAro> yeah 17:56:11 <LordAro> did you get a response from GH? 17:56:12 <glx> because the display on the site is correct 17:56:15 <TrueBrain> refs/pull/<id>/head reports wrong hash 17:56:30 <TrueBrain> no reply yet .. 17:56:50 <TrueBrain> this is just bloody annoying 17:56:57 <TrueBrain> but cant find anyone else complaining about it 17:56:59 <Eddi|zuHause> i see, the transition goes smoothly :) 17:57:12 <peter1138> It was working, right? 17:57:13 *** Gja has quit IRC 17:58:36 <Eddi|zuHause> depends on your definition of "it", "was" and "working", i suppose 17:59:10 <glx> indeed github desktop still shows the old version in PR 17:59:29 <TrueBrain> even their own client is fail .. well, I hope they can find what is causing it 17:59:38 <LordAro> TrueBrain: https://issues.jenkins-ci.org/browse/JENKINS-50755 ? 17:59:51 <LordAro> not helpful, but shows someone else having the problem 18:00:39 <TrueBrain> indeed, not alone :) 18:00:57 <glx> and confirms our idea ;) 18:01:12 <TrueBrain> it also seems to be recent 18:01:16 <TrueBrain> it started yesterday or so 18:01:35 <TrueBrain> as before that we did a few rebases just fine 18:01:41 <andythenorth> now we learn about problems caused by our host :) 18:01:54 <frosch123> move to gitlab! :p 18:02:05 <TrueBrain> yes! Lets move for every bug we find to another! 18:02:08 <andythenorth> host our own! 18:02:09 <TrueBrain> in no time we will be using notepad! 18:02:11 <Eddi|zuHause> are those the evil ones? 18:02:25 <LordAro> pretty sure github are the evil ones 18:02:36 <andythenorth> this is a totally valid bug, but there's no solution https://github.com/OpenTTD/OpenTTD/issues/4076 18:02:40 <andythenorth> negative has to be red 18:02:51 <andythenorth> it's completely illegible, but it has to be red 18:03:42 <TrueBrain> doesnt github have an issue tracker or something ? 18:03:51 <LordAro> andythenorth: lighter grey? 18:04:04 <andythenorth> that would require the entire UI to be refactored 18:04:14 <LordAro> true 18:04:43 <Eddi|zuHause> andythenorth: maybe something can be done with shadow colour? 18:04:53 <Eddi|zuHause> andythenorth: or a setting like for the map colours? 18:04:54 <andythenorth> I tried it a black shadow 18:04:59 <andythenorth> it's moderately better 18:05:09 <andythenorth> interestingly the various charts disagree about negative 18:05:20 <andythenorth> some have black y axis -ve labels 18:05:21 <andythenorth> some have red 18:05:26 <andythenorth> finance window is black 18:05:55 <Eddi|zuHause> that's probably a missing {COLOR} in some STR_WHATEVER? 18:06:16 <Eddi|zuHause> or different string code used? 18:06:17 *** supermop_work has quit IRC 18:07:14 <andythenorth> adding a black shadow is the fastest solution https://github.com/OpenTTD/OpenTTD/issues/4076#issuecomment-381217332 18:07:52 <TrueBrain> okay, #6584 is very cryptic ... is the issue here that in the german version the top line below the image is missing? 18:08:06 <Wolf01> Eddi|zuHause: did the fix for yesterday work? The train depot list stuff 18:08:33 <andythenorth> the g is truncated in last line TrueBrain 18:08:40 <TrueBrain> ah 18:08:43 <andythenorth> as though it's not given enough space or so 18:08:47 <TrueBrain> but there isa also les sinformation in that window!! 18:08:49 <andythenorth> I don't know the UI box model 18:08:53 <TrueBrain> the cost is not there 18:08:57 <andythenorth> but that would be overflow hidden 18:09:19 <TrueBrain> and weight 18:10:06 <andythenorth> it's a bug 18:10:15 <TrueBrain> how weird! 18:10:20 <andythenorth> but how and where, dunno :P 18:10:21 <TrueBrain> but I like he complains about the letter at the end :D 18:11:23 <TrueBrain> I like how for many things adf88 has a patch uploaded 18:11:42 <andythenorth> he does 18:11:45 <Eddi|zuHause> Wolf01: well, the initial "dirty" fix "worked", but the "proper" fix didn't work out 18:12:48 <TrueBrain> andythenorth: possible we need priorty labels of some sorts .. lot of projects have that .. for example, #6582 is a bug, but .. meh; not that imprtant. Yet others are important 18:12:50 <TrueBrain> not sure 18:13:08 <andythenorth> I would wait a bit 18:13:20 <andythenorth> I agree basically, but there are other ways to skin that cat 18:13:43 <TrueBrain> minor / critical 18:13:47 <TrueBrain> but more flavours of the same :D 18:14:25 <TrueBrain> #6581 .. another one .. sure, it would be nice .. but .. priority-wise it is somewhere down there 18:14:30 <TrueBrain> yet it sounds minor to fix 18:16:43 <TrueBrain> I love your comment on #6558 andythenorth :D 18:16:46 <TrueBrain> it is very descriptive :) 18:17:04 <TrueBrain> (the last one) 18:17:09 <andythenorth> is video 18:17:10 <andythenorth> eh 18:17:17 <TrueBrain> last one is emptytyyyyyyyy 18:17:26 <andythenorth> lawks 18:17:36 <andythenorth> oh I couldn't delete in FS 18:17:51 <andythenorth> I probably fat fingered a comment, and couldn't remove it 18:17:53 <TrueBrain> I like the movie :) 18:17:58 *** andythenorth has quit IRC 18:18:36 *** andythenorth has joined #openttd 18:19:53 <TrueBrain> #6548 suggests there was a change upstream that made neither of the 3 work? 18:21:39 <LordAro> andythenorth: how's that move to github announcement coming along? 18:21:50 <TrueBrain> LordAro: how is CONTRIBUTIONS.md coming along? 18:21:52 <TrueBrain> :D 18:22:12 *** muffindrake1 has quit IRC 18:22:30 <LordAro> curl https://wiki.openttd.org/Coding_Style > CONTRIBUTING.md 18:22:38 <TrueBrain> not really, but a start 18:22:52 <LordAro> :p 18:23:39 *** andythenorth has quit IRC 18:24:48 *** andythenorth has joined #openttd 18:26:44 <Eddi|zuHause> so... i just totally necro-ed a topic 18:28:48 <Eddi|zuHause> <TrueBrain> minor / critical <-- todo/urgent? 18:30:33 *** Stimrol has joined #openttd 18:30:37 *** muffindrake has joined #openttd 18:30:55 <Eddi|zuHause> maybe we could classify them into estimates of how much work it would be? <10loc, <100loc, major refactoring, complete redesign? 18:33:52 <Wolf01> Fucks given? 18:34:12 <Eddi|zuHause> that sounds more like voting :p 18:36:10 <Eddi|zuHause> frosch123: so the problem with https://jenkins.openttdcoop.org/job/OpenTTD/ is that it was not reconfigured to pull from the new repo? 18:37:53 <andythenorth> I would not bother with prio. currently 18:37:56 <andythenorth> it's either getting done, or not 18:38:00 <andythenorth> there's no customer 18:38:10 <andythenorth> management don't need a report :P 18:38:42 * frosch123 assigns 90% of human resources to pango :p 18:38:55 *** muffindrake has quit IRC 18:39:02 <Eddi|zuHause> andythenorth: but if you had some kind of hierarchy you could avoid reading the same 200 issues over and over each time you make a review? 18:39:28 <andythenorth> I think it's easier to just close most of them 18:39:29 <andythenorth> but yes 18:39:45 *** roidal_ has quit IRC 18:39:52 <andythenorth> at work I have a redmine milestone for 'not now' 18:40:03 <andythenorth> and anything that's valid but not urgent goes in it 18:40:04 <LordAro> we have a milestone "Later" 18:40:06 <andythenorth> then we ignore it 18:40:08 *** muffindrake has joined #openttd 18:40:15 <frosch123> so, which docs should be on wiki, and which on github? 18:40:17 <andythenorth> there's always other high prio. things to do 18:40:27 <andythenorth> CONTRIBUTING.md 18:40:29 <frosch123> coding style vs contributning etc? 18:40:41 <andythenorth> code style benefits little from being in wiki 18:40:46 <LordAro> frosch123: given we have an actual wiki, i wouldn't bother using GH wiki 18:40:57 <andythenorth> if you have power to enforce code style, you have power to commit 18:41:09 <frosch123> yes, but should contributing contain anything, or links to wiki? 18:41:14 <Eddi|zuHause> andythenorth: you might want to consider doing a thing from the not-now package even though there's higher priority stuff going on, one per day 18:41:24 <LordAro> some sort of cut down version of the wiki page, probably 18:41:26 <andythenorth> Eddi|zuHause: plausible yes 18:41:32 <LordAro> and also explaining rebasing and where issues are 18:41:38 <andythenorth> I would link the wiki to GH 18:41:40 *** supermop_work has joined #openttd 18:41:42 <andythenorth> rather than vice versa 18:41:53 <andythenorth> might be taste though, I find the wiki hard to read 18:41:57 <andythenorth> YMMV 18:42:36 <andythenorth> I also always systematically distrust wikis 18:42:39 <andythenorth> because wiki 18:43:14 <Eddi|zuHause> so, i now have successfully made a local clone of openttd 18:43:20 <andythenorth> \o/ 18:43:39 <Eddi|zuHause> in a directory called "trunk"... :p 18:45:47 <andythenorth> not sure I understand this one https://github.com/OpenTTD/OpenTTD/issues/5678 18:48:00 <Eddi|zuHause> andythenorth: something like "if you switch from population to name, also switch from descending to ascending" 18:49:13 <andythenorth> oh so it specifies a sort order per field 18:49:14 <andythenorth> ok 18:49:17 <Eddi|zuHause> not sure, however, whether that is just a "fix MY usecase" change, or if it's a change beneficial to the general public 18:49:19 <andythenorth> [shrug] 18:49:44 <andythenorth> all UI stuff with binary choices, unless there's an obvious 'better', don't touch it 18:49:57 <andythenorth> changing it for 1 patcher might piss off 999 players 18:50:15 <andythenorth> it's taste, not aesthetics 18:51:32 <Alberth> I initially implemented it inconsistent, as it made the most sense, but it was changed to something consistent later 18:52:31 <andythenorth> :) 18:53:10 <Alberth> names alphabetically starting at A, population starting with the highest value 18:53:13 <peter1138> So many commits. 18:53:17 <andythenorth> frosch123: shall we just declare subtypes 'not getting fixed'? https://github.com/OpenTTD/OpenTTD/issues/3764 18:53:23 <andythenorth> and https://github.com/OpenTTD/OpenTTD/issues/5631 18:53:25 <peter1138> I really should've gone out on the bicycle. I could've been back by now. 18:53:34 <andythenorth> they are total heart sink when I read 'livery' issues 18:53:36 <peter1138> (If I'd've liked a short ride) 18:53:45 <andythenorth> still light here peter1138 :P 18:53:50 <andythenorth> and not even very cold 18:53:53 <peter1138> Didn't I have a patch for subtypes for somethin? 18:54:05 <andythenorth> probably lost 18:54:12 <peter1138> No, I have a backup. 18:54:12 <andythenorth> subtypes are a raging disaster 18:54:21 <andythenorth> they should be sacked, but eh 18:54:34 <peter1138> They were fine but we extended things in a different direction. 18:54:43 <andythenorth> I find them a bit depressing :D 18:54:51 <andythenorth> they don't work as expected 18:54:57 <andythenorth> they don't work with auto-replace 18:55:02 <andythenorth> they don't work with auto-refit 18:55:11 <peter1138> Which ttdpatch didn't have. 18:55:14 <andythenorth> they aren't liveries, but they're described as such 18:55:41 <andythenorth> oh so we built a roundhole for a perfectly good square peg? o_O 18:56:02 <peter1138> :D 18:56:05 <andythenorth> shoulda just done 'livery labels' 18:56:07 <andythenorth> imagine the fun 18:56:11 <andythenorth> days of wiki drama 18:56:25 <andythenorth> BNSF will overlap with something no doubt 18:56:42 <peter1138> Basically there's no point to them now that we have unlimited* vehicle types. 18:56:55 <andythenorth> I use them for cargo capacity refits on ships 18:57:12 <andythenorth> they're a bit broken, but it's the least worst way to vary capacity by +/-10% 18:57:37 <andythenorth> let's do livery labels :) 18:57:47 <andythenorth> and a UI where livery can be set per vehicle 18:58:08 <Eddi|zuHause> speaking of "unlimited*" vehicle types, the vehicle list needs a text filter :p 18:58:18 <peter1138> I welcome your patch. 18:58:25 <Eddi|zuHause> i noticed that yesterday while scrolling through the CETS vehicle list :p 18:58:28 <peter1138> Or rather, I welcome your PR. 18:58:44 <peter1138> Or feature request on github :D 18:58:45 <andythenorth> PR is something quite different in my house 18:58:52 <andythenorth> I am married to a doctor 18:58:59 <andythenorth> it involves gloves 18:59:26 <frosch123> are you the training subject? 18:59:32 <andythenorth> nope 18:59:38 <frosch123> lucky :) 19:00:48 <andythenorth> can we reduce some more of the Very Important 276 open issues :P 19:00:50 <peter1138> I reckon for roadtypes we should first add a load of hardcoded types to the game... 19:00:51 <andythenorth> before adding more 19:00:56 <peter1138> Then bodge newgrf stuff on later 19:01:02 <peter1138> Bit like airports 19:01:15 <andythenorth> HWY? 19:01:17 <LordAro> because that worked out so well :p 19:01:49 <Eddi|zuHause> peter1138: we haven't even managed to put trams into the default vehicle set 19:04:23 *** andythenorth has quit IRC 19:04:40 *** andythenorth has joined #openttd 19:04:53 <Wolf01> Stop making peer reset your connection 19:06:38 <peter1138> :p 19:06:46 <peter1138> But really 19:07:14 <peter1138> merge, merge, sync, sync, merge , merge, change, merge, sync, fix, fix, merge, comment, merge, merge 19:07:30 <Wolf01> Sorry about that :( 19:07:38 <LordAro> sounds like a rebase will go most of the way to fixing it :p 19:07:45 <Eddi|zuHause> peter1138: problem with that line of thought is that the more you add to the default game, the more difficult you make it for NewGRF authors to remove default stuff and replace it with their own ideas 19:07:52 <peter1138> Oh, that "fix, fix" was the same commit but with different hashes in different branches 19:08:05 <peter1138> Eddi|zuHause, sorry, should I have used /s ? 19:08:49 <Eddi|zuHause> no, it's fine, i just wanted to clarify that :p 19:09:03 <andythenorth> not sure what this even merges https://github.com/andythenorth/NotRoadTypes/commit/a2196a74edb39f62dd7398fd3131e8eb49bebea0 19:09:30 <peter1138> heh 19:09:59 <peter1138> Maybe I should've kept that single-commit version and broken it up. 19:10:21 <peter1138> I used to rewrite all my patches several times. 19:10:36 <Eddi|zuHause> ... and then still not commit them :p 19:10:39 <peter1138> That too. 19:10:49 <peter1138> Once the goal is complete it's easier to see what needs to be changed;. 19:11:04 <Eddi|zuHause> yeah that is pretty normal 19:11:27 <Eddi|zuHause> once you know what you're actually trying to do, you can start over and do it properly 19:11:35 <peter1138> Exactly. 19:11:48 <peter1138> Only issue is I'm not familiar with this code. 19:13:01 <peter1138> Oh, I did keep the diff. Hmm. 19:13:38 <andythenorth> TrueBrain: want to do the NoAI ones? o_O https://github.com/OpenTTD/OpenTTD/issues?utf8=%E2%9C%93&q=is%3Aopen+label%3ANoAI+label%3A%22enhancement+from+FlySpray%22+ 19:14:02 <TrueBrain> andythenorth: I amgoing through al the pages currently 19:14:04 <TrueBrain> I am at page 4 19:15:10 <Eddi|zuHause> andythenorth: there's one missing there, pikka wanted to place semaphore signals 19:15:20 <andythenorth> 'all open' TrueBrain? 19:15:26 <TrueBrain> yes 19:15:33 <andythenorth> k 19:15:42 <TrueBrain> minus the patches 19:15:47 <TrueBrain> I really need to sit down for patches 19:16:01 <Eddi|zuHause> you do this now standing up? :p 19:16:20 <andythenorth> I was :P 19:16:35 <andythenorth> am I missing the 'next issue' link in Github? 19:16:52 *** triolus has joined #openttd 19:17:01 *** sla_ro|master has quit IRC 19:18:26 <triolus> hello. I'm looking to start a new openttd game and would like to go for a more 'model train' appearance rather than massive junctions/networks. I've never used newgrfs, so could you recommend some that would suit what I'm going for? 19:18:26 <TrueBrain> #6501 ... sounds that works as intended .. need to check code :( 19:19:59 <andythenorth> it's another potato / potato issue 19:20:03 <andythenorth> and it's minor 19:20:12 <andythenorth> and conditional orders don't really work anyway 19:20:26 <andythenorth> changing that will just produce another ticket 'change it back' 19:21:14 <supermop_work> triolus: what region do you wish to model 19:21:40 <Eddi|zuHause> triolus: large map with sparse towns/industries (so you have space for nice layouts), pick a region/country and there's probably a NewGRF vehicle set for that 19:22:10 <Eddi|zuHause> triolus: also things you might want to consider are a patchpack with "daylength" option, and industry sets 19:23:06 <Eddi|zuHause> fill all remaining slots with station and eyecandy object sets :) 19:24:20 <triolus> I'm going with the sub artic, so the PNW would be nice. Canada maybe 19:24:40 <Eddi|zuHause> then NARS is probably for you 19:24:55 <Alberth> play 64x64 no room for anything massive 19:26:00 <Alberth> the screenshot forum is full with grf lists, have a browse there 19:26:01 <Eddi|zuHause> Alberth: "you have this 2x3m room, now build a nice H0 gauge layout"? 19:26:22 <andythenorth> get NARS 2 19:26:23 <Alberth> better make it road only :p 19:26:56 <Alberth> I once played firs at 64x64, it was packed with industry, no room for rails :p 19:26:57 * andythenorth waits for TrueBrain to get to 6416 19:27:00 <triolus> the NARS trains look nice. kinda what I'm going for. what would be good for stations, objects, and road vehicles? 19:27:34 <triolus> nm, it has a road vehicle one =) awesome 19:27:55 <Eddi|zuHause> also pick a ship and plane set :) 19:28:14 <andythenorth> triolus: industrial stations 19:28:17 <andythenorth> (ISR) 19:28:46 <Eddi|zuHause> i use ISR for industries, NewStations for passengers 19:28:59 <Eddi|zuHause> Chips might also be useful, if you use FIRS as industry set 19:29:03 <triolus> yea, ships are important. gonna do a 55-60% water map to get nice islands 19:29:36 <andythenorth> there are no good ship sets 19:29:45 <andythenorth> I'm working on that :P 19:30:33 <Eddi|zuHause> there's also a "North American City Set" for houses, but i'm not sure how good that really is 19:30:33 <Wolf01> We should really make andythenorth a curator, review grf lists, and a "download this preset" in game 19:30:43 <andythenorth> ugh no 19:30:52 <LordAro> haha 19:30:56 <andythenorth> that's a horrible idea 19:30:56 <Eddi|zuHause> that sounds like a terrible idea :p 19:31:02 <andythenorth> what eddi said 19:31:30 <andythenorth> if I liked grfs, I wouldn't be making my own 19:32:00 <Eddi|zuHause> "here we have this person who can't make up his mind and decides the opposite every few days, let's make him the authority on what is good" 19:32:09 <Wolf01> Yes 19:32:22 <supermop_work> andythenorth's curated grf set for 2018 (contains 0 grfs) 19:32:52 <supermop_work> do you still have your tuk tuk? 19:32:53 <andythenorth> Eddi|zuHause: or we could do what most other authors do 19:32:58 <andythenorth> and ship the first lame idea they have :P 19:33:04 <andythenorth> then stick rigidly to it 19:33:10 <triolus> how is FISH? 19:33:15 <andythenorth> supermop_work: kinda, but not in my posession directly 19:33:21 <andythenorth> triolus: rubbish :) 19:33:40 <triolus> andythenorth: lol 19:33:47 <andythenorth> Squid is a bit better 19:33:56 <supermop_work> i am trying to get my company to buy an old citroen corrugated van 19:33:58 <andythenorth> Michael's NewShips is nice, but not very big set 19:34:11 <andythenorth> supermop_work: the silver ones? 19:34:17 <supermop_work> for marketing/pop up food truck use 19:34:19 <andythenorth> they usually get turned into artisan food trucks 19:34:20 <andythenorth> yes 19:34:29 <andythenorth> those and three-wheelers 19:34:32 <supermop_work> yeah, not sure if we'd paint or wrap it 19:34:49 <supermop_work> three wheelers are tougher here 19:35:00 <andythenorth> there is some US company makes utility three wheelers 19:35:02 <supermop_work> hard to convince whatever state that they are legal 19:35:04 <andythenorth> more common than I expected 19:35:08 <TrueBrain> enhancement requests which only state a solution .. *close* 19:35:10 <andythenorth> I saw a Bajaj in Austin 19:35:14 <andythenorth> I'll find a picture 19:35:17 <supermop_work> the little piaggi ones are very rare here 19:35:20 <Wolf01> I'm trying to convince my boss to hire an osteopath/psychologist/lawyer 19:35:40 <supermop_work> they are usually just decorative garage queens, not street registered 19:36:04 <supermop_work> i want a tiny korean clone of tiny japanese truck 19:36:07 <Wolf01> We have any sort of problem on my company 19:36:11 <supermop_work> but too small for food 19:36:19 <Eddi|zuHause> have a picture? i'm having a hard time imagining what you're talking about 19:36:58 <peter1138> /home/petern/Projects/OpenTTD/src/station_cmd.cpp:2954:12: warning: variable ‘catenary_bits’ set but not used [-Wunused-but-set-variable] 19:37:01 <peter1138> Hmm :S 19:37:29 <andythenorth> supermop_work: https://www.flickr.com/photos/andythenorth/40541800215/ and https://www.flickr.com/photos/andythenorth/40541799625/in/photostream/ 19:37:40 <andythenorth> it's a 4-stroke petrol, not as powerful or large as mine 19:37:44 <andythenorth> Austin TX 19:37:51 <TrueBrain> andythenorth: #6416 was easy 19:38:10 <andythenorth> I wrote an essay 19:38:19 <triolus> so I'm also gonna take aviator aircraft, unless someone knows better. 19:38:19 <TrueBrain> I ignored it 19:40:37 <andythenorth> supermop_work: Cushman Haulster https://hiveminer.com/Tags/cushman%2Cnypd 19:41:12 <supermop_work> nice 19:41:34 <supermop_work> ive seen some people withsurplus ex-police meter maids 19:45:28 <andythenorth> 269 19:45:33 *** Alberth has left #openttd 19:45:35 <andythenorth> 100 less then 24 hours ago 19:45:53 <TrueBrain> #6398 is tricky .. really a bug, really no simple solution 19:46:10 <TrueBrain> do we keep bugs around that have as resolution: when-ever-bananas-is-rewritten 19:46:58 <TrueBrain> andythenorth: I asked you a question in that ticket :D I really do not know .. 19:47:40 <andythenorth> TrueBrain: which ticket? o_O 19:48:01 <TrueBrain> the one I linked you in, and talked about 1 minute before I wrote that? :P 19:48:06 * peter1138 tests is compiles 19:48:09 <peter1138> *it 19:49:05 <andythenorth> closed it TrueBrain 19:49:14 <peter1138> Ah, same error with plain NRT. 19:49:36 * peter1138 rebases, foolishly. 19:50:35 <peter1138> Oh, it hangs :p 19:52:14 <andythenorth> TrueBrain: ok I read some more bugs, it might be time to hide some away in 'not now' project? 19:52:31 *** Thedarkb has joined #openttd 19:52:41 <andythenorth> that might equal 'closed' in reality, but eh, it seems neater 19:53:21 <TrueBrain> example? 19:53:50 <andythenorth> https://github.com/OpenTTD/OpenTTD/issues/6167 19:53:58 <andythenorth> https://github.com/OpenTTD/OpenTTD/issues/6219 19:54:05 <andythenorth> yeah they're bugs 19:54:12 <andythenorth> but literally no kittens die 19:54:20 <andythenorth> there's quality, and then there's quality 19:54:47 <andythenorth> maybe call a project "No Dead Kittens" 19:55:14 <TrueBrain> 6167 sounds like a simple fix, but it is gold plating 19:55:24 <TrueBrain> still, hiding them away is not helping either 19:55:35 <TrueBrain> (as hiding is the same as closing) 19:55:42 <andythenorth> so let's close some 19:55:45 <TrueBrain> but it is why I mentioned a label for priority (or severity maybe) 19:55:46 <andythenorth> (some more) 19:55:55 <TrueBrain> lets not close for the fact of closing please 19:56:04 <TrueBrain> like 6167, I see no reason to close it 19:56:08 <andythenorth> well the main thing is to be able to focus, so maybe it is a label 19:56:11 <TrueBrain> just I would love to mark it as: minor 19:56:24 <TrueBrain> but as you said earlier .. lets do priority later :) 19:56:38 <andythenorth> ok 19:56:41 <andythenorth> onwards 19:57:41 <TrueBrain> and I was serious yesterdy: lets not second guess eachother; if I or you marked it as: keep (by removing the "from Flyspray"), lets not revisit it and challenge it again :) We have too many to look through ;) 19:57:43 <andythenorth> this is surely nonsense? 19:57:48 <TrueBrain> (on that note, reopening #6253 :D) 19:58:09 <andythenorth> ok 19:58:49 <TrueBrain> what was nonsense btw? 19:58:54 <andythenorth> https://github.com/OpenTTD/OpenTTD/issues/6046 19:59:08 <andythenorth> "I block my train in with signals, and then it is blocked" 19:59:29 <TrueBrain> signals are the wrong way :) 20:00:35 <LordAro> i think the actual issue is that it stops dead and doesn't (try to) reverse 20:00:49 <TrueBrain> do trains otherwise? 20:00:53 <TrueBrain> and they do after some time, he writes 20:00:54 <andythenorth> I have verified the issue 20:01:01 <peter1138> Depends on the settings. 20:01:09 <andythenorth> what else is supposed to happen? 20:01:12 <TrueBrain> andythenorth: verified what? 20:01:24 <andythenorth> I can stop the train by building 1 way signals over it 20:01:30 <andythenorth> so signals work correctly 20:01:34 <andythenorth> trains work correctly 20:02:28 <Eddi|zuHause> i think it should trigger a "train reverses at end of line" event 20:02:29 <andythenorth> it has to be on signal density 1 to trigger it 20:02:34 <andythenorth> (trigger the stop) 20:02:44 <TrueBrain> owh, no, it is a bug 20:02:48 <TrueBrain> lol 20:02:50 <TrueBrain> this is funny 20:02:52 <TrueBrain> ish 20:03:07 <TrueBrain> make rail, put a one-way signal on it, make train go 20:03:10 <TrueBrain> it will ignore the signal 20:03:52 <Eddi|zuHause> i think it's fine if a train ignores a signal it already passed with the front engine 20:04:01 <peter1138> ^ Yeah 20:04:08 <andythenorth> "https://github.com/OpenTTD/OpenTTD/issues/6046" 20:04:12 <andythenorth> oops bad paste 20:04:13 <TrueBrain> it always ignores it 20:04:15 <andythenorth> " But the problem is that they shouldn't stop in the first place." 20:04:25 <TrueBrain> owh, it depends on the signal type 20:04:26 <TrueBrain> lol 20:04:37 <andythenorth> I don't get it 20:04:37 <andythenorth> trains should *definitely* stop on one-way signals 20:04:38 <andythenorth> they should *not* drive through them 20:04:52 <andythenorth> I don't understand any proposed solution 20:05:09 <TrueBrain> ah, PBS are ignore if they are the wrong way 20:05:14 <TrueBrain> trains do reverse immediatly 20:05:32 <andythenorth> not if you set signal density to 1, or sometimes 2 20:05:43 <andythenorth> they stop, waiting path 20:05:49 <Eddi|zuHause> the bug report says must be at least 2 signals to trigger 20:06:00 <andythenorth> but he doesn't want reverse 20:06:05 <andythenorth> "Besides, current behaviour is not "elegant" ('reverse_at_signals' is just a workaround)." 20:06:11 <andythenorth> so wtf is supposed to happen? 20:06:20 <Eddi|zuHause> "reverse_at_signals" is for waiting too long at red signals 20:06:22 <andythenorth> one way signals only work telepathically? 20:06:23 <TrueBrain> okay, behaviour really is a bit wonky 20:06:37 <andythenorth> it's a bug eh TB? 20:06:38 <Eddi|zuHause> this is "reverses at end of line", which it should do 20:07:06 <TrueBrain> train on track, place one-way far in front of it, when it hits it, it IMMEDIATLY reverses, goes back to depot, won't come out of depot (no free path) 20:07:17 <TrueBrain> train on track, place one way DIRECTLY in front of it, train stops, waiting for path 20:07:36 <peter1138> andythenorth, well reverse is correct. Waiting ages maybe, maybe not. 20:07:40 <TrueBrain> reversing the signals unstucks it 20:08:00 <Eddi|zuHause> so it's a bug in path reservation? 20:08:34 <andythenorth> I've labelled it bug 20:08:45 <TrueBrain> and triage :) 20:08:52 <Eddi|zuHause> i think we once had a bigger discussion about whether back of a one-way signal should be considered "safe waiting location" 20:08:56 <andythenorth> k 20:08:59 <peter1138> dbg: [misc] String too long for destination buffer 20:09:06 <peter1138> How do I get it to tell me what string? 20:09:29 <peter1138> Eddi|zuHause, no it's not. 20:09:32 <TrueBrain> right, page 6 then 20:10:00 <Eddi|zuHause> if it's not, it may cause stuck trains like that 20:10:23 <Eddi|zuHause> because it can't reserve a path it won't move, but because it won't move it can't reach the end of the line to reverse 20:10:34 <peter1138> andythenorth, where do I find an NRT newgrf? 20:10:34 <TrueBrain> wow, #6337 is a stupid bug :p 20:10:54 <andythenorth> peter1138: https://www.tt-forums.net/viewtopic.php?p=1180663#p1180663 20:10:58 *** Wacko1976 has joined #openttd 20:11:31 <peter1138> snow/rainforest was broken ever since TGP 20:11:44 <andythenorth> isn't it 20:11:53 <andythenorth> and tropic map gen 20:11:55 <andythenorth> is awful 20:11:56 <glx> <supermop_work> i am trying to get my company to buy an old citroen corrugated van <-- a type H (also know as TUB here) ? 20:12:10 <peter1138> more height levels just makes the problem more visible 20:12:18 <peter1138> i have some patches somewhere.. ;( 20:12:31 *** Stimrol has quit IRC 20:12:55 <andythenorth> https://www.tt-forums.net/viewtopic.php?f=33&t=74647&p=1165875&hilit=temperate#p1165875 20:13:32 <andythenorth> whatever TGP thinks it's doing in the sub-tropic, it doesn't 20:13:39 <triolus> well, I think these newgrfs will be fun. thanks everyone. I'm gonna try to setup a server with them now =) 20:14:16 <peter1138> andythenorth, is it meant to have toolbar sprites? 20:14:25 <andythenorth> yes, there is one new one 20:14:35 <andythenorth> for light rail construction 20:15:00 <peter1138> Hmm, I have no trams at all. 20:15:23 <TrueBrain> holy moly, if #6230 is really the fix for the problem .. silly little patch :D 20:15:31 <andythenorth> peter1138: sprite 178 or so in openttdgui.png is the sprite 20:15:43 <peter1138> andythenorth, no, i mean hogs 20:15:53 <Wolf01> https://www.tt-forums.net/viewtopic.php?f=26&t=75986&start=40 peter1138 20:15:57 <andythenorth> no trams :o 20:17:43 <TrueBrain> the patch in #6211 feels weird ... it adds new functions, but n othing calls it? 20:18:04 <andythenorth> close it? 20:18:40 <andythenorth> can always re-open later 20:18:41 <peter1138> Hmm, I need more than 4GB RAM in my VM :p 20:18:49 <andythenorth> lots of bugs to triage, let's not add more new ones 20:18:52 <andythenorth> well, except NRT :P 20:19:18 <peter1138> Usual issue of mouse warping not working too, so scrolling is bad. 20:19:46 <TrueBrain> owh, I get what he tried to do .. he only added the command so it could be shown on websites 20:19:49 <TrueBrain> not ingame 20:20:12 <andythenorth> btw I get trams in tip of NRT fork, with Hog 20:20:28 <andythenorth> FWIW : 20:20:29 <andythenorth> :P 20:20:48 <peter1138> I have trams in the vehicle list. 20:20:58 <peter1138> Oh. Right. 20:21:00 <peter1138> Broken tool bar :p 20:21:33 <Wolf01> Good, I fixed that 3 times already 20:21:52 <peter1138> Yeah, it's the pesky openttd.grf 20:22:42 <Eddi|zuHause> doesn't it rebuild openttd.grf automatically? 20:23:06 <LordAro> if grfcodec is available 20:23:26 <TrueBrain> frosch123: do I understand you correctly, and in https://github.com/OpenTTD/OpenTTD/issues/6207 a "closed, works as intended"? 20:23:40 <peter1138> It didn't realise it needed to. 20:23:45 <peter1138> Hmm, so, 5 sprites missing. 20:24:27 <andythenorth> TrueBrain: 6207 is 'working as intended' but I think it shouldn't be silent 20:24:38 <TrueBrain> so the bug is the silent part? 20:24:52 <andythenorth> well 20:25:03 <andythenorth> do you want 400 'failed to renew' red boxes? o_O 20:25:11 <andythenorth> you / me / anyone /s 20:25:15 <Eddi|zuHause> making it non-silent is probably easier than rewriting autorenew 20:25:23 <andythenorth> it could go to news log 20:25:28 <TrueBrain> so on the known-bugs list? 20:25:32 <andythenorth> I think so 20:25:43 <frosch123> TrueBrain: autorenew!=autoreplace 20:25:56 <Eddi|zuHause> also, this is autorenew, there's no real reason why it would need to fail 20:25:57 <frosch123> autoreplace works as intended, autorenew can be improved 20:26:26 <andythenorth> there's a related issue 20:26:48 <andythenorth> related because it's a similar error message needed, not similar cause https://github.com/OpenTTD/OpenTTD/issues/5776 20:26:49 <frosch123> i would keep the issue open 20:27:11 <frosch123> it's a corner case, but there is an obvious fix 20:27:18 <andythenorth> I've linked 6207 and 5776 20:27:27 <andythenorth> I think they need to be open 20:27:30 <frosch123> mark it as "good first issue" :p 20:27:31 <andythenorth> both have caught me out 20:27:43 <andythenorth> I did a whole newgrf with mixed-cargo articulated vehicles 20:27:47 <andythenorth> then found they don't work :P 20:27:50 <TrueBrain> frosch123: go for it :) 20:28:01 <TrueBrain> but please reiterate first what is left of the ticket, as it was non-obvious to me 20:28:12 <frosch123> only thing with the issue is that there are so many bollocks comments, so it is hard to understand :) 20:28:19 <frosch123> ^^ 20:28:45 <andythenorth> we can delete some honestly 20:28:55 <TrueBrain> I did the topic and labels, but I would love a comment from you summarizing it :) Tnx frosch123! 20:29:16 <TrueBrain> I am very tempted to classify #6193 as a security bug 20:29:27 <TrueBrain> I have to look through the code first, but .. I forgot we did that :D 20:29:33 <peter1138> Hmm, it's the new version number that is apparently too long. 20:29:57 <andythenorth> TrueBrain: I wondered about 6193 :D 20:30:33 <TrueBrain> OpenTTD has too many folders to store savegames :P 20:30:41 <TrueBrain> very few games give this flexibility :) 20:30:46 <peter1138> "20180412--g6ac07902M" 20:30:59 <LordAro> peter1138: see open PR 20:31:30 <andythenorth> https://github.com/OpenTTD/OpenTTD/pull/6709 this got merged :) \o/ 20:31:42 <andythenorth> commits that aren't translations or just frosch :D 20:31:55 <andythenorth> 'just frosch' sounds bad :P didn't mean to 20:32:22 <peter1138> LordAro, that doesn't appear to address it being too long? 20:32:30 <LordAro> true 20:32:34 <peter1138> It's also missing my branch. I'm not on master. 20:32:36 <TrueBrain> andythenorth: #6189, that sounds like a bug to me; the patch is in another ticket. Your comment seems in the wrong issue? 20:32:51 <andythenorth> I deny it 20:32:52 <Wolf01> Wow 262 issues, 60 less(fewer?) than yesterday 20:32:52 <andythenorth> all of it 20:32:59 <andythenorth> Wolf01: 100 less 20:33:04 <Wolf01> Really? 20:33:20 <TrueBrain> yeah, reads to me that you flipped your responses :) 20:33:49 <frosch123> https://github.com/OpenTTD/OpenTTD/issues/6207 <- better? 20:33:52 <TrueBrain> your comment confuses me more than the topic :D Lol 20:34:06 <andythenorth> well 20:34:17 <andythenorth> 3298 put his patch for https://github.com/OpenTTD/OpenTTD/issues/6189 on https://github.com/OpenTTD/OpenTTD/issues/6053 20:34:19 <TrueBrain> tnx frosch123 :) 20:34:21 <andythenorth> as part of another patch 20:34:32 <TrueBrain> but I dont see why you suggest closing it, but owh no, leaving it open 20:34:34 <TrueBrain> it is confusing! 20:34:35 <TrueBrain> :D 20:34:36 <peter1138> Ah, cos I'm in the middle of a rebase, most likely. 20:35:04 <andythenorth> TrueBrain: file it under "andy was wrong" 20:35:05 <andythenorth> happens 20:35:12 <TrueBrain> no, I was trying to understand you :) 20:35:17 <andythenorth> so am I :P 20:35:17 <TrueBrain> I assumed you had reasoning behind it :) 20:35:26 <andythenorth> sometimes it's like being a passenger watching :P 20:35:45 <andythenorth> we have accidentally driven 3298 away 20:35:46 <TrueBrain> so, I altered your comment than :) 20:35:58 <andythenorth> so eh, is his patch ticket dead or legit? I'm confused :P 20:36:11 <andythenorth> ok 20:36:14 <andythenorth> solved 20:36:14 <TrueBrain> Reload #6189 :) 20:36:16 *** debdog has quit IRC 20:36:48 <andythenorth> yup 20:37:14 <TrueBrain> its really nice: I think we should close the ticket, I closed the ticket, I left it open, IN A SINGLE SENTENCE :D 20:37:16 <TrueBrain> <3 20:37:22 <Eddi|zuHause> on #6193, it should probably prevented to cd into anything that is none of the Readme section 4.1 paths 20:37:42 *** debdog has joined #openttd 20:37:44 <TrueBrain> Eddi|zuHause: the ticket is the place to leave these comments :) 20:37:56 <peter1138> He'd need a github account though. 20:38:14 <Eddi|zuHause> not quite there yet 20:38:29 <TrueBrain> what is the saying .. either put up or shut up? 20:39:40 <TrueBrain> lol @ 6177 .. "very bad" .. "required" .. tempted to close the issue just for that :D 20:41:48 <Wolf01> You could have replied "there are grfs for that" 20:42:01 <TrueBrain> please do add that, if that is the case :) 20:42:25 <peter1138> Hmm, so missing graphics. But there were no conflicts. What do I need to do :p 20:42:42 <peter1138> Wolf01, tell me :D 20:43:07 <Wolf01> Does it work or what? 20:43:27 *** sim-al2 has joined #openttd 20:43:43 <TrueBrain> why did the game get so many buttons .. omg .. 20:43:48 <TrueBrain> so much bloat! 20:43:50 <TrueBrain> :P 20:43:59 <Wolf01> I'm trying to add more! 20:44:43 <Wolf01> Mmmh, I really think I've lost the branch for the new game UI 20:44:50 <Wolf01> The one with tabs 20:45:01 <TrueBrain> I FOUND AN ISSUE WHICH andythenorth CAN MAKE A PULL REQUEST FOR! :D \o/ \o/ 20:45:04 <TrueBrain> that makes me happy :) 20:45:06 <Wolf01> Stupid unpublished branch 20:45:21 <TrueBrain> in git, always push to your fork 20:45:30 <TrueBrain> even if you are not planning to make a pull request out of it 20:45:42 <TrueBrain> if you lost it recently, 'git reflog' can be your friend 20:45:45 <Wolf01> I don't plan to make a PR out of anything I do 20:45:45 <peter1138> Wolf01, oh... yes. It's opengfx actually missing graphics. 20:45:54 <peter1138> Have now installed the correct graphics. 20:46:06 <TrueBrain> reflog shows all your recent actions, and in front the hash to go back to how things were before that action 20:46:10 <TrueBrain> (or after that action?) 20:46:13 <TrueBrain> well, either way :P 20:46:43 <TrueBrain> after the action 20:46:59 <TrueBrain> (in git, nothing is really lost, unless the garbage collector was triggered) 20:47:12 <peter1138> Mm 20:48:11 <peter1138> https://github.com/PeterN/OpenTTD/commits/nrt-block < worst idea ever ;p 20:48:45 <andythenorth> nice 20:49:03 <peter1138> No merging, no fixing intermediate stuff... 20:49:29 <peter1138> Now I need to read through it all and understand how to stage it. 20:50:37 <Eddi|zuHause> split into hunks and then combine hunks as you go? 20:50:43 <TrueBrain> ugh, hotkeys ... what to do with them ... 20:50:50 <andythenorth> make a project? 20:50:58 <andythenorth> make a new issue listing all hotkey ponies? 20:51:00 <peter1138> What's up with hotkeys? 20:51:02 <andythenorth> get LordAro to do it? 20:51:04 <andythenorth> peter1138: 'moar' 20:51:09 <andythenorth> and non-ascii 20:51:15 <TrueBrain> basically, it should be: hotkeys need a revamp 20:51:24 <andythenorth> NotHotKeys 20:51:38 <peter1138> NoHK 20:51:59 <andythenorth> NotHot 20:52:06 <andythenorth> probably easily misunderstood :P 20:52:07 <Eddi|zuHause> ... and a GUI for configuring them 20:52:13 <andythenorth> there is a GUI 20:52:16 <andythenorth> it's my text editor 20:52:31 <Eddi|zuHause> that's far outside any reasonable definition of GUI :p 20:53:06 <TrueBrain> hotkeys for volume .. that is just too silly 20:53:15 <TrueBrain> no, NoHo 20:53:19 <TrueBrain> that is much more in line :) 20:53:32 <andythenorth> also open to misunderstanding 20:53:35 <andythenorth> wilful or otherwise 20:54:58 <andythenorth> I reckon it's hard to get <250 20:57:13 <Eddi|zuHause> not without starting to actually solve any problems :p 20:57:21 <andythenorth> I am about to close as TMWFTLB unless anyone has a cunning plan to solve it https://github.com/OpenTTD/OpenTTD/issues/4365 20:57:53 <peter1138> Let me come up with plan to fix it, in the 2 seconds it'll take you to close it. 20:58:01 <TrueBrain> OpenTTD is in 32bpp by default these days? (for Windows) 20:58:14 <andythenorth> peter1138: I am slow typing today 20:58:16 <peter1138> andythenorth, not, TMWFTLB, imho it just should be random. 20:58:17 <andythenorth> you have 30s 20:58:28 <andythenorth> how do you show layout for random? 20:58:45 <andythenorth> oh you mean "you don't" 20:58:47 <peter1138> No need to. 20:58:49 <andythenorth> +1 21:00:32 <peter1138> RoadNoLevelCrossing() < empty comment 21:00:33 *** Stimrol has joined #openttd 21:03:00 <peter1138> What does that function do? 21:04:05 <frosch123> TrueBrain: the competitive people have various hotkey stuff in their fork 21:04:35 <TrueBrain> but VOLUME? :) 21:04:43 <TrueBrain> that is more for your OS :) 21:04:49 <andythenorth> peter1138: is that the one that forbids level crossings? 21:04:53 <frosch123> TrueBrain: yes, 32bpp is default for win, since win8 or so 21:05:01 <peter1138> Yeah, figured it out. 21:05:02 <TrueBrain> frosch123: cool; closes ticket :) 21:05:26 <frosch123> TrueBrain: nah, not volume, but they have more weird keys and more hotkeys for various building tools 21:05:27 <andythenorth> peter1138: https://wiki.openttd.org/Frosch/NotRoadTypes#Properties_2 21:05:44 <andythenorth> 256 21:05:49 <TrueBrain> that is it, we are done 21:05:51 <TrueBrain> :P 21:05:54 <andythenorth> magic number 21:06:06 <andythenorth> now pick top 100, put em in a project 21:06:10 <andythenorth> 'stuff' 21:06:54 <TrueBrain> awh, 255 :( 21:06:57 <andythenorth> it makes it all a bit project-managed though eh? 21:07:14 <andythenorth> "no this is what management wants you working on, thanks bai" 21:08:04 <Wolf01> Aaaaaand... 'night... I won't be here for the entire weekend (lego stuff) :P 21:08:16 <Eddi|zuHause> i wish i had a GitHub account right now to open a ticket and make TrueBrain happy again :/ 21:08:25 <andythenorth> 255 is a nice number too 21:08:26 *** Wolf01 has quit IRC 21:08:29 <TrueBrain> please, don't create lies Eddi|zuHause 21:08:31 <TrueBrain> :P 21:08:58 <Eddi|zuHause> i thought that is the only thing the internet is good at, create and spread lies? 21:09:37 <TrueBrain> andythenorth: toss a coin please 21:09:43 <andythenorth> heads 21:09:51 <TrueBrain> shit, I had to think about heads or tails before I asked 21:09:55 <TrueBrain> okay, again 21:10:02 <andythenorth> didn't you just 21:10:02 <andythenorth> call 21:10:12 <TrueBrain> yes .. I am weird 21:10:12 <andythenorth> heads again 21:10:17 <TrueBrain> okay, ticket stays open :) 21:10:20 <TrueBrain> (5596) 21:10:20 <andythenorth> this is dead I think https://github.com/OpenTTD/OpenTTD/issues/5934 21:10:42 <TrueBrain> no, it is not; 5596 is silly 21:10:42 <Eddi|zuHause> if you can't think of heads or tails, just throw twice and pick same or different :p 21:11:30 <andythenorth> https://github.com/OpenTTD/OpenTTD/issues/5596 is long closed? o_O 21:11:46 <TrueBrain> 5996 21:11:49 <TrueBrain> I have to learn to read 21:11:50 <TrueBrain> sorry :D 21:12:05 <andythenorth> I am +1 to closing that 21:12:16 <andythenorth> shell doesn't report success, only error 21:12:19 <Eddi|zuHause> low hamming distance, could have happened to anyone :p 21:12:36 <TrueBrain> shell is a very bad example for the audiance, but that was not my reasoning :D 21:12:38 <TrueBrain> but closed it already :) 21:12:44 <andythenorth> next 21:13:37 <TrueBrain> wow, 5934 is tricky 21:14:14 <andythenorth> tarpit 21:14:35 <TrueBrain> problem is a bit, the request seems valid, and then the topic sinks in a technical talk about a single solution 21:14:39 <TrueBrain> that confuses me :D 21:14:57 <andythenorth> not winnable in current form 21:15:05 <andythenorth> nobody's going to pull that and get it done 21:15:22 <andythenorth> also 4 years 21:16:34 <TrueBrain> ugh, okay 21:18:12 <TrueBrain> quiet a few fixes are ready to be applied; just need to be dusted off :) 21:18:38 <TrueBrain> take 5977 21:18:48 <TrueBrain> includes a fix and everything 21:19:02 <andythenorth> yes 21:19:15 <andythenorth> I tested most of 3298's groups fixes 21:19:20 <andythenorth> not sure if I got them all 21:19:25 *** Progman has quit IRC 21:20:00 <TrueBrain> andythenorth: #5958 .. you are good at those OSX shit 21:20:09 <andythenorth> yeah I am he 21:20:12 <andythenorth> the best 21:20:33 <andythenorth> what does it all mean? :o 21:21:02 *** frosch123 has quit IRC 21:23:57 <TrueBrain> CLOSE IT andythenorth! JUST DO IT! :P 21:24:00 <TrueBrain> (old OSX, I guess) 21:24:23 <andythenorth> I don't understand it 21:24:37 <TrueBrain> trackpad doesnt work, stopped reading after that :P 21:24:57 <andythenorth> I think pinch is supposed to work even when mousewheel scrolls 21:24:59 <andythenorth> [shrug] 21:26:14 <andythenorth> closed 21:26:50 <TrueBrain> so 1 more today .. 21:27:12 <andythenorth> 6061 is nice 21:27:28 <andythenorth> keep it, rename it 'town trolls landscape' 21:27:41 <andythenorth> trolling AI needed :P 21:28:42 <TrueBrain> okay, that was weird ... my firealarm went off, but none of the sensors detected an issue 21:28:52 <TrueBrain> they cycled for a few times, and went quiet 21:28:56 <andythenorth> spooky 21:29:12 <andythenorth> magnetic bees nearby? 21:31:02 <peter1138> Herp 21:31:29 <andythenorth> plate tectonics GS idea 21:31:34 <andythenorth> 4096x4096 map 21:31:40 <andythenorth> 64x64 island 21:31:51 <andythenorth> GS moves the island 16 tiles every year 21:32:00 <andythenorth> destroying your stuff 21:32:18 <peter1138> o_O 21:32:58 <andythenorth> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Inverted_World 21:37:35 <TrueBrain> there 21:37:36 <TrueBrain> 250 21:37:56 <TrueBrain> enough for the day 21:37:57 <TrueBrain> night! 21:38:12 <TrueBrain> nice work on issues today andythenorth :) 21:38:19 <andythenorth> 250 :) 21:38:23 <andythenorth> ok winning 21:38:40 <andythenorth> night 21:38:41 *** andythenorth has left #openttd 21:43:44 <triolus> I got my server up and running at eagle.triolus.com:3979 if anyone wants to join 21:46:04 <peter1138> Replocate. 22:01:22 <peter1138> Hmm, roadtype electric? 22:06:17 *** Darkvater has quit IRC 22:13:20 *** Wacko1976 has quit IRC 22:14:14 *** Wormnest has quit IRC 22:14:51 <LordAro> hmm 22:15:04 <LordAro> the disadvantage to pango is that it depends on cairo, which depends on glib 22:15:31 <peter1138> Enjoy 22:16:36 *** Darkvater has joined #openttd 22:16:36 *** ChanServ sets mode: +o Darkvater 22:17:10 <LordAro> it's not a concern as far as the source goes, but i imagine it'll bloat the dependencies a bit 22:17:55 <Eddi|zuHause> peter1138: roadtype electric is for trolleybusses i assume 22:18:40 <Eddi|zuHause> (there's also currently some test tracks where trucks drive with catenary on highways) 22:23:40 <peter1138> LordAro, dependencies == someone else already wrote the code. 22:24:11 <LordAro> yeah, but packaging & distributing dependencies isn't exactly the easiest for C++ stufff 22:24:14 <LordAro> -f 22:26:07 *** DarkSSHClone has joined #openttd 22:26:25 <LordAro> DarkSSHClone: suspicious 22:27:46 *** Darkvater has quit IRC 22:33:36 <Eddi|zuHause> orudge: minor forum annoyance, the "OpenTTD Graphics" link in the OpenTTD section is a "http" link, and my browser always complains about "leaving secure area", however it is immediately replaced with https again 22:35:27 *** supermop_work has quit IRC 22:35:28 <peter1138> The thing warns about insecure content anyway. 22:37:05 <Eddi|zuHause> how do you mean? 22:37:48 <peter1138> Mixed http/https resources. 22:38:17 <Eddi|zuHause> i don't get such messages 22:38:22 *** DarkSSHClone has quit IRC 22:38:29 <Eddi|zuHause> just this one 22:40:42 <peter1138> Ah, it's avatars in my notification popup. 22:41:00 <peter1138> Most are locally hosted but not all. 22:41:21 *** cHawk has quit IRC 22:41:51 <peter1138> Very old version of jquery in use, though. 22:41:53 <Eddi|zuHause> what's a notification popup? 22:42:33 *** cHawk has joined #openttd 22:42:38 *** Darkvater has joined #openttd 22:42:38 *** ChanServ sets mode: +o Darkvater 22:42:50 <Eddi|zuHause> (i browse without javascript) 22:43:27 <peter1138> Bloody hell, is that even possible these days? 22:44:06 <Eddi|zuHause> not really... it's getting worse every time 22:44:41 <Eddi|zuHause> but is it worse than sites nagging you about disabling your adblocker? dunno 22:45:19 <Eddi|zuHause> and it's definitely not worse than fullscreen ads 22:45:45 <Eddi|zuHause> sporadically you get sites that are just blank 22:46:11 <Eddi|zuHause> and for youtube, etc. i use a different browser 22:51:46 *** Darkvater has quit IRC 22:54:07 *** Thedarkb has quit IRC 22:55:46 *** FLHerne has quit IRC 22:56:07 *** FLHerne has joined #openttd 22:58:35 *** Thedarkb has joined #openttd 23:03:29 *** synchris has quit IRC 23:30:34 *** FLHerne has quit IRC 23:46:50 *** Thedarkb-X40 has joined #openttd 23:52:55 *** Thedarkb has quit IRC 23:58:39 *** kimen has joined #openttd