Log for #openttd on 14th April 2018:
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03:09:55  <arahael> No more openttd for a week. :(  Getting the screen of my laptop repaired.
03:10:44  <arahael> peter1138: I browse without javascript too on my iPad2.
03:11:16  <arahael> Eddi|zuHause: Tip: Sometimes "reader mode" can show you the content even if it's "blank".
03:12:34  <Eddi|zuHause> what's a "reader mode"?
03:14:14  <arahael> Eddi|zuHause: A special mode some browsers have - firefox and safari both have it. If the web page is compatible (Most article-based pages are), then it'll strip *all* the page presentation and just give you the text, along with relevant images,in a very easy to read format.
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06:18:53  <andythenorth> o/
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06:26:24  <Pikka> o/
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06:27:45  <andythenorth> lo Pikka
06:28:00  <andythenorth> is recolour sprites a thing?
06:28:13  <andythenorth> or shall I just paint the pixels I need?
06:29:36  <Pikka> it can be a thing, I did it for UKRS2... but painting is easier.
06:29:55  * Pikka bbs
06:33:59  <peter1138> RECOLOUR IT
06:34:28  <peter1138> Left you a slew of TODOs andythenorth ;p
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06:35:21  <andythenorth> I saw :D
06:35:34  <peter1138> There's more, to do with AIs.
06:35:35  <andythenorth> and Wolf has gone Lego-ing
06:35:40  <andythenorth> such larks
06:36:33  <andythenorth> so what's the go?  Rebase the fork?  Or use your giant patch?
06:45:44  <peter1138> I'm looking through my giant patch at the moment.
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07:18:20  <andythenorth> oops
07:18:23  <andythenorth> hacked a GS in place
07:18:27  <andythenorth> crazy talk
07:18:41  <andythenorth> better than hitting 'newgame' until I get 3 random cargos I like :P
07:25:38  <peter1138> :p
07:27:04  <andythenorth> I could do it properly and a UI to choose cargos eh
07:27:10  <andythenorth> but I want to play ottd
07:27:30  <peter1138> Play? What is this?
07:30:13  <andythenorth> I know
07:31:16  <andythenorth> oops, ran out money
07:36:40  <peter1138> Ctrl-alt-c
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07:39:54  <andythenorth> 'cheating'
07:40:35  <Pikka> lies
07:41:45  <andythenorth> Pikka: played any FIRS ever? o_O
07:41:57  <Pikka> sure
07:42:21  <Pikka> plenty
07:42:52  <andythenorth> Steeltown?
07:44:17  <Pikka> nope, don't think I had a current enough version until recently
07:44:46  <andythenorth> is different
07:45:49  <Pikka> oui
07:46:07  <Pikka> I'll have to try it. could do a multiplayer game again?
07:46:31  <andythenorth> I can later in the week
07:46:34  <andythenorth> ping here is bad
07:46:49  <andythenorth> there would be a lot of 'paused for andy to reconnect'
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08:17:21  <__ln__> who would like to tell me what are _wnd.width_org and .height_org for in win32_v.cpp?
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08:25:17  <__ln__> if i remove them and replace each occurrence with just .width and .height, apparently nothing changes in behaviour.
08:35:12  <LordAro> they appear to have been there since r1
08:49:00  <__ln__> i also wonder what 'bck' in _bck_resolution stands for. 'backup'?
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09:03:09  <LordAro> __ln__: looks like its only use is when maximising the window, so i'd guess so
09:12:06  <__ln__> thanks for your support :|
09:21:53  <LordAro> yw
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09:29:36  <TrueBrain> still no response from GitHub .. last time they were rapid with a response .. guess I either did it wrong (as you don't get confermation in email) or it was a really difficult question
09:29:41  <TrueBrain> AWS also never replied ........
09:30:06  <andythenorth> moin TrueBrain
09:31:25  <TrueBrain> morning :)
09:32:15  <andythenorth> so what today?
09:32:43  <andythenorth> these 19 from FS?
09:34:12  <TrueBrain> few things I like to do ... indeed, FS issues, OSX CI, Mingw CI, revamp CI to report better, look at cmake, slap LordAro for (see bootstrap! :P), slap andythenorth for making a PR of the issue I assigned to him
09:34:14  <TrueBrain> so many choices
09:34:34  <andythenorth> I am playing OpenTTD
09:34:36  <LordAro> i'm sensing a theme
09:35:09  <TrueBrain> but indeed, lets first finish tickets .. I was at page 7 of 10, so ..
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09:39:23  <TrueBrain> andythenorth: so you understood #5654 .. can you explain me what he meant? :D
09:40:03  <andythenorth> let's see
09:40:56  <andythenorth> seems I thought it was bug...feature request
09:40:59  <andythenorth> whatever that means
09:41:00  <andythenorth>  :P
09:41:19  <TrueBrain> I dont understand what he is talking about
09:41:28  <andythenorth> so, e.g. Operating Profit
09:41:32  <andythenorth> in game with > 1 company
09:41:33  <TrueBrain> I think, but this is reaching, that something is not reset on starting a new game?
09:41:44  <andythenorth> ok
09:41:47  <andythenorth> so no screenshot
09:41:48  <andythenorth> no save
09:41:51  <andythenorth> no repro step
09:41:58  <andythenorth> why spend my life reproing? :)
09:41:58  <TrueBrain> yes; but dont care
09:42:05  <TrueBrain> I am trying to undestand a user
09:42:09  <TrueBrain> which is the first thing we should always do :)
09:42:28  <andythenorth> ugh you pulled the argument I can't argue against :x
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09:42:50  <TrueBrain> I am not asking to argue against me; I asked if you understood the user :D :)
09:42:55  <andythenorth> you must have read an agile book
09:43:20  <andythenorth> so the charts, operating profit etc, there is an option to toggle companies on and off
09:43:42  <andythenorth> I think he's suggesting the toggle state per company is persisted in openttd, rather than the save
09:44:02  <andythenorth> I thought of way to test, hang on
09:44:10  <TrueBrain> no, the other way around :D Just reproduced it :D
09:44:18  <TrueBrain> but he jumps to a solution, instead of the problem :)
09:44:22  <TrueBrain> so, when you deselect a company
09:44:29  <TrueBrain> and create a new game, or load a save game, or what ever
09:44:31  <TrueBrain> it remembers it
09:44:42  <TrueBrain> so you start a new game with your own company deselected :D
09:44:43  <andythenorth> seems to
09:44:51  <TrueBrain> storing it in the save seems silly
09:44:58  <TrueBrain> just reset on load/new game, I guess
09:45:17  <andythenorth> I can confirm the report
09:45:27  <andythenorth> at least for op. profit graph
09:45:50  <andythenorth> it could cause failure demand I guess, user might wonder why their company is not shown
09:46:39  <TrueBrain> put steps to reproduce down :)
09:47:08  <andythenorth> I screenshot
09:47:30  <TrueBrain> you go girl!
09:50:15  <andythenorth> I am going to make a TrueBrain filter for irc
09:50:46  <LordAro> /ignore TrueBrain
09:50:57  <TrueBrain> its what I always do
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09:57:55  <andythenorth> TrueBrain: so where's my assigned issue? o_O
09:58:25  <TrueBrain> in your mailbox? Or search for it :)
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09:58:54  <TrueBrain> (Assignee -> Me)
09:59:01  <andythenorth> found it
09:59:05  <andythenorth> weird I don't get notified
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10:05:52  <TrueBrain> I am creating a new ticket :( Saddddd
10:06:11  <andythenorth> I am dumb
10:06:22  <andythenorth> I can't see how to update my github fork of OpenTTD
10:06:27  <andythenorth> I guess google knows
10:06:54  <TrueBrain> git remote add upstream
10:06:57  <TrueBrain> git fetch upstream
10:06:57  <andythenorth> oh I just do remotes
10:07:00  <TrueBrain> git rebase upstream/master
10:07:06  <andythenorth> I assumed there was a better way
10:07:17  <michi_cc> TrueBrain: I think the (only) GitHub project is mislabelled. Pango can't replace ICU because as far as I can see it doesn't do collation or sorting. What it does is layout (which what was removed from ICU), but the engine itself is HarfBuzz which removes the need for Cairo, GLib etc.
10:07:54  <TrueBrain> michi_cc: talk to LordAro, as I just repeated what he told me :D
10:07:58  <LordAro> *frosch
10:08:03  <TrueBrain> I have no knowledge of ICU or Pango :)
10:08:14  <LordAro> but yeah, it was only intended to replace the layout stuff, sorting stays as ICU
10:08:23  <TrueBrain> people lie to me :(
10:08:27  <LordAro> (as the layout stuff has been deprecated and removed from ICU)
10:08:40  <michi_cc> Then you really only want HarfBuzz, as Pango is a complete text rendering engine down to the pixels.
10:08:42  <LordAro> i've been looking at pango all morning, and it is exceptionally lacking in documentation
10:09:05  <TrueBrain> because if ICU changes, a few tickets should be prioritized differently :)
10:09:16  <michi_cc> There's a drop-in ICU layout replacement:
10:09:17  <LordAro> and yeah, with all the extra stuff it pulls in, (cairo, glib, etc) i think some more minimal alternative might be better
10:10:02  <LordAro> michi_cc: interesting
10:10:13  <LordAro> feel like it'd be "better" to do it properly though
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10:10:58  <TrueBrain> michi_cc: I made changes :)
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10:12:01  <LordAro> is as far as i've got anyway
10:13:07  <andythenorth> so to do a PR, for a docs change, do I need to branch in my fork?
10:13:10  <andythenorth> or push on master?
10:13:12  <andythenorth> (docs only)
10:13:36  <TrueBrain> no, to a branch
10:13:36  <LordAro> andythenorth: for a change you don't expect to last very long, it's probably fine to use master
10:13:43  <TrueBrain> as soon as you psuh, GitHub helps you with the rest
10:13:47  <LordAro> as far as git/GH is concerned, it's just another branch
10:13:48  <TrueBrain> NO LordAro NO
10:13:53  <TrueBrain> NEVER use master in your fork :)
10:13:56  <LordAro> but it's good to keep them synced
10:14:00  <michi_cc> LordAro: Yeah, but the lib is probably a good way to see how functionality maps.
10:14:01  <TrueBrain> BAD LordAro :)
10:14:18  <LordAro> TrueBrain: go on then, why does it matter :p
10:14:24  <TrueBrain> your PR, when accepted in upstream master, will have another hash; in result, you NEED to do a force push on your master if you resync
10:14:31  <TrueBrain> really bad practice :)
10:14:41  <LordAro> yeah, but it's *your* master
10:14:44  <LordAro> it's irrelevant
10:14:45  <TrueBrain> always make a branch; it is cheap, doesnt cost you anything, etc
10:15:04  <TrueBrain> do what you like in your fork; please don't teach others to do that :) Gives you a lot of more explaining to do :)
10:15:30  <TrueBrain> so andythenorth, git branch -b docs_name_whatever
10:15:32  <TrueBrain> git push
10:15:36  <TrueBrain> (git will help you with the rest)
10:17:12  <TrueBrain> andythenorth: #5198 , can you explain this to me in plain english? (if you understand it :D)
10:20:23  <andythenorth> TrueBrain: nope
10:20:34  <andythenorth> I don't understand timetables
10:20:40  <andythenorth> they have a terrible UI
10:20:43  <andythenorth> and they don't actually work
10:20:54  <TrueBrain> right
10:20:55  <andythenorth> but still...billions of feature requests
10:21:07  <andythenorth> one big ticket: timetables are broken
10:21:32  <andythenorth> sorry, timetables piss me off :)
10:21:32  <LordAro> convince ic111 to redo their timetables branch
10:21:34  <LordAro> :p
10:21:35  <andythenorth> not being helpful
10:21:48  <TrueBrain> very helpful, closed the ticket :)
10:22:06  <andythenorth> I don't think anybody understands them
10:22:18  <andythenorth> the whole idea of changing vehicle speed to hit the timetable is voodoo
10:23:00  <TrueBrain> lol @ screenshot of #4540
10:23:02  <TrueBrain> I was like .. how bad can it be
10:24:00  <andythenorth> ha ha
10:24:30  <andythenorth> don't use conditional orders :D
10:25:42  <frosch123> so, when listing rev hashes in the commit message: how long should it be? i use rev-parse --short which gives different lengths for whatever, truebrain said 7 in #6711. does this even need to be defined, or do we allow whatever?
10:25:44  <andythenorth> have we got any ticket number format / bot?
10:25:53  <andythenorth> oh frosch123 has same q
10:26:00  <andythenorth> synchronous :P
10:26:17  <TrueBrain> frosch123: funny addition, if you click Squash, GitHub makes it 7 for you :)
10:26:30  <andythenorth> well frosch means hashes, but eh
10:26:35  <andythenorth> standard commit formats?
10:26:36  <TrueBrain> (and I just said GitHub makes it 7! I have no other opinion on the matter)
10:26:53  <andythenorth> we used to have "FS#6114" or so in commits?
10:27:15  <andythenorth> (#6114) ?
10:27:22  <LordAro> wait, when did frosch123 get here
10:27:59  <andythenorth> 10:57am innit
10:28:39  <TrueBrain> poor LordAro, feels offguard :D
10:28:44  <andythenorth> let's see how wrong I can get a PR :P
10:28:54  <frosch123> andythenorth: yes, we have a fixed format for issue numbers, we even have a bot which enforces them
10:29:10  <frosch123> andythenorth:
10:29:16  <TrueBrain> frosch123: we should check the hash exists I guess in the commit-checker btw ..
10:29:23  <TrueBrain> might avoid pointing to a fix in your own branch or something
10:29:26  <andythenorth> oops
10:29:29  <andythenorth> Docs not Doc
10:29:33  <andythenorth> in my commit
10:29:44  <TrueBrain> git rebase -i upstream/master
10:29:48  <TrueBrain> change 'pick' in reword!
10:29:52  <TrueBrain> (or just git commit --amend)
10:29:58  <TrueBrain> :D
10:30:03  <andythenorth> I prefer amend :P
10:30:20  <frosch123> TrueBrain: does that work with your shallow clones on jenkins?
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10:30:56  <TrueBrain> frosch123: currently they are not shallow :)
10:31:02  <TrueBrain> and I think that remains that way
10:31:07  <TrueBrain> I just do have to cache it, I noticed :P
10:31:20  <TrueBrain> andythenorth: 241, and I reached the last ticket
10:31:39  <andythenorth> let's see what I did wrong
10:31:44  <TrueBrain> 3 bug tickets left I didnt dare touching ..
10:32:10  <TrueBrain> andythenorth: please rebase, instead of merges :)
10:32:25  <TrueBrain> and how did you get twice the same commit in there?
10:32:28  <TrueBrain> that is not amending :)
10:32:37  <andythenorth> well
10:32:41  <TrueBrain> lol; sorry, but what did you do?! :D
10:32:41  <andythenorth> that is good q
10:32:53  <TrueBrain> I really have no clue how you did this :D
10:33:06  <andythenorth> I suspect our work git workflow is a lot looser
10:33:19  <TrueBrain> no ... I somewhat doubt that :)
10:33:24  <andythenorth> what's in my gitconfig I wonder
10:33:25  <TrueBrain> you have your own commit twice in there :)
10:33:46  <TrueBrain> and you merged your own branch in your own branch
10:34:09  <andythenorth> not explicitly
10:34:45  <TrueBrain> the merge is of both those commits
10:34:54  <andythenorth> I am reading my shell
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10:35:09  <andythenorth> the merge comes on pull
10:35:23  <andythenorth> because I have an amended local commit, I assume
10:35:37  <andythenorth> there's no 'git merge'
10:35:37  <TrueBrain> owh, so you pushed your branch
10:35:40  <andythenorth> yes
10:35:41  <TrueBrain> did an amend
10:35:44  <andythenorth> yes
10:35:47  <andythenorth> and then it has to merge
10:35:48  <TrueBrain> then pulled your own branch from remote
10:35:54  <TrueBrain> well, no, but I understand where it went wrong :)
10:36:00  <andythenorth> I can not do that
10:36:06  <TrueBrain> what you normally do after an amend, is a force push
10:36:07  <andythenorth> I'm just 5 years habit of doing that :P
10:36:13  <andythenorth> oh force push is banned at work :P
10:36:14  <TrueBrain> not a pull :)
10:36:15  <andythenorth> ok
10:36:17  <TrueBrain> yes, for good reason
10:36:20  <andythenorth> yes
10:36:23  <TrueBrain> but if you ban force push, you ban amand too
10:36:31  <TrueBrain> those two go side-by-side
10:36:39  <TrueBrain> amand .. lol
10:36:40  <TrueBrain> amend
10:36:48  <andythenorth> but if I didn't push, amend is fine? o_O
10:37:05  <TrueBrain> on GitHub, if you didn't make a Pull Request, force pushes are fine
10:37:09  <TrueBrain> after that it seems to break Github :D
10:37:11  <andythenorth> hmm
10:37:22  <TrueBrain> as long as you stay in your own fork, everything is fine, basically :P
10:37:22  <andythenorth> ok it's a brave new world
10:38:07  <andythenorth> so how to unfuck it?
10:38:15  <andythenorth> I can just make a new branch TBH
10:38:45  <TrueBrain> if you run:
10:38:49  <TrueBrain> git rebase -i upstream/master
10:38:52  <TrueBrain> you see both of your commits
10:38:56  <TrueBrain> remove the one with a broken commit message
10:39:06  <TrueBrain> (depending on your editor, there is a way to remove whole lines)
10:39:11  <TrueBrain> save and exit the editor
10:39:13  <TrueBrain> git push -f
10:40:22  <TrueBrain> (or make a new branch and cherry-pick your commit, or just make a new branch and do it again :P)
10:40:31  <andythenorth> let's learn how to rebase
10:40:33  <andythenorth> I want 'drop'
10:41:08  <TrueBrain> I like how verbose interactive rebasing is :)
10:42:13  <TrueBrain> frosch123: what is your opinion about #6597, #6590 and #6521. Do you think any of those are going to be picked up in the next year or so, and are they truly worth fixing?
10:43:22  <frosch123> 6597 is mb not understanding the specs
10:43:42  <TrueBrain> so we can close it?
10:43:45  <frosch123> yes
10:44:09  <TrueBrain> done
10:44:18  <frosch123> 6590 is valid, possibly "good first issue". reasoning: it works like this for plain rail, and is good. stations differ for no reason
10:44:36  <TrueBrain> done
10:44:56  <frosch123> 6521 is again bs
10:45:06  <frosch123> mb failing at basic logic
10:45:52  <TrueBrain> but I cannot reply that :)
10:45:59  <TrueBrain> and I dont understand most of what is writtenthere :P
10:47:01  <TrueBrain> frosch123: would you mind leaving your reasoning in that ticket and closing it up?
10:47:21  <andythenorth> I'm confused by that ticket
10:47:26  <andythenorth> but I have same cargo refits in Sam
10:47:29  <andythenorth> they work
10:47:47  <andythenorth> also the ticket starts talking about A and takes a massive left turn into B and C
10:47:53  <TrueBrain> yes
10:47:56  <TrueBrain> that really did not help
10:48:22  <frosch123> commented and closed
10:48:25  <TrueBrain> okay ... so many labels .. do we want to keep labels on closed tickets, or do we not care ..
10:48:28  <TrueBrain> thank you frosch123!
10:48:42  <TrueBrain> that only leaves hidden PRs in the issues .. rest is either closed or classified :D
10:49:55  <TrueBrain> keeping labels for historical reasons seems weird I guess
10:50:42  <TrueBrain> owh, I forgot lunch! bbl :)
10:51:04  <frosch123> burned pizza :p
10:52:53  <andythenorth> TrueBrain: I wanted to get rid of a few labels, not all
10:52:58  <andythenorth> 'script' is not useful
10:53:02  <andythenorth> and people have used it wrong a lot
10:53:13  <andythenorth> also less fucked up
10:54:12  <frosch123> "core" is useless, category was obligatory on fs
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10:54:24  <frosch123> "build system" is useless. everyone able to report that, would make a pr
10:55:03  <frosch123> most of the old features are probably useless
10:55:32  <frosch123> probably "NewGRF" is enough instead of "NewXX"
10:56:09  <andythenorth> I wondered
10:56:21  <andythenorth> 'timetables' and 'vehicles'?
10:56:25  <andythenorth> 'vehicles' and 'newgrf'
10:56:27  <andythenorth> o_O
10:56:32  <andythenorth> might be fine
10:57:19  <frosch123> so, imho delete: articulated, autoreplace, brdige, build system, clone vehicles, core, electrified rails, newcargos, newindustries, newobject, newstations, script, tgp, trams, vehicles
10:57:50  <frosch123> possibly also merge "noai" and "goal/game script" into one
10:57:54  <frosch123> not sure about the name
10:58:34  <andythenorth> there was 'script'
10:58:41  <andythenorth> was/is, but I found it confusing
10:58:43  <frosch123> yes, but too unspecific
10:58:46  <andythenorth> people are using it for random crap
10:58:48  <frosch123> there is also console :)
11:01:47  <andythenorth> ugh typo
11:02:04  <andythenorth> most ridiculous docs update ever
11:11:29  <frosch123> cleaned up some of the labels, merging various ones into one, deleting those with only "random" task assigned to them
11:11:38  <frosch123> i am unsure about all the labels for close reasons
11:11:52  <frosch123> maybe TrueBrain has an opinon on them
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11:26:18  <andythenorth> 239 issues
11:26:23  <andythenorth> can't see how to get any more out
11:26:39  <andythenorth> other than solving them, or invalidating after investigation
11:26:52  <frosch123> turn all "build system" ones into PRs :)
11:27:02  <andythenorth> :P
11:27:09  <andythenorth> ok so what next TrueBrain?
11:27:15  <andythenorth> some kind of priority?
11:27:22  <andythenorth> label?
11:27:23  <andythenorth> 'top 100' project?
11:35:15  <TrueBrain> so yeah, labels .. do we care about closed issues?
11:35:36  <TrueBrain> as if we remove a label, it is also "removed" on closed issues (you cannot search on them anymore)
11:35:44  <TrueBrain> seems weird to have that as reason to not remove it, I guess
11:37:03  <TrueBrain> frosch123: how did you merge labels?
11:37:17  <TrueBrain> ah, manual :D
11:38:02  <andythenorth> I am not massively interested in preserving label history
11:38:08  <andythenorth> it's ephemeral imho
11:38:21  <TrueBrain> in that case, let me try something .. curious if this works ..
11:38:24  <andythenorth> make it do what we need for any moment in time
11:38:33  <frosch123> TrueBrain: filter issue for label, select all, mass apply new label, delete old label
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11:39:03  <TrueBrain> frosch123: ah! That would have worked too .. smart :D
11:39:11  <TrueBrain> I now just removed a bunch of labels with no good reason what so ever :P
11:39:14  <TrueBrain> (only on closed tickets)
11:39:17  <frosch123> i only did it on open ones the first time though :p
11:39:26  <frosch123> for gs/ai i also applied it to closed ones
11:39:40  <TrueBrain> 4492 closed tickets
11:39:45  <TrueBrain> yeah ... that is going to take too long
11:40:03  <TrueBrain> (I want to remove "bug from FlySpray")
11:40:04  <andythenorth> so the 'from Flyspray' labels look like they're no longer needed?
11:40:06  <TrueBrain> guess I just remove it :P
11:40:14  <TrueBrain> plop
11:40:15  <TrueBrain> gone
11:40:44  <frosch123> what about duplicate, external, invalid, knownissue, wonfix and worksforme?
11:40:48  <frosch123> they are close reasons
11:40:59  <TrueBrain> yeah .. github tends to do that
11:41:04  <frosch123> but would you apply any of them when closing? :p
11:41:05  <TrueBrain> I dont really see any point in it tbh
11:41:15  <TrueBrain> get ride of them already :P
11:41:19  <LordAro> iirc GH has a "duplicate" link helper nowadays
11:42:18  <TrueBrain> I really wonder if labels like Network, and Pathfinder are of any use
11:42:20  <TrueBrain> but we will see
11:42:36  <andythenorth> it's all project management theatre
11:42:55  <andythenorth> at work, we mostly have 'now', 'backlog', 'not this year'
11:43:00  <TrueBrain> I do like "Interface" as in general different people do Interface vs other things
11:43:01  <andythenorth> and sometimes tags so we can filter
11:43:14  <frosch123> TrueBrain: imho yes. fixing them requires special knowledge, and the tasks in those categories use the label correctly
11:43:15  <TrueBrain> priority and severity
11:43:22  <TrueBrain> frosch123: fair enough
11:43:45  <andythenorth> get rid of the close reasons?
11:43:51  <frosch123> rule of thumb: labels make sense when people are able to apply them correctly :)
11:43:56  <andythenorth> yes
11:44:09  <TrueBrain> andythenorth:  I assumed frosch123 was removing them already :P
11:44:22  <frosch123> priority and severity sound useless to me
11:44:30  <frosch123> does anyone look for that?
11:44:30  <TrueBrain> minor vs critical can be very useful
11:44:38  <TrueBrain> as a new release should have no critical
11:44:44  <TrueBrain> just helps managing milestones
11:44:49  <TrueBrain> but we will see over time
11:45:14  <TrueBrain> okay, I gave all categories the same color
11:46:02  <frosch123> 19 labels? where did they all go?
11:46:08  <TrueBrain> in the bin
11:46:16  <frosch123> :p
11:46:55  <TrueBrain> 46 good-first-issues
11:46:57  <TrueBrain> not bad
11:47:28  <TrueBrain> and a big variation
11:47:59  <TrueBrain> 35 that needs triage
11:48:02  <TrueBrain> and a shitload of patches
11:49:43  <TrueBrain> what shall we do first ..
11:49:57  * frosch123 does
11:50:01  <TrueBrain> sweet
11:50:22  <LordAro> will translators be able to push directly to the repo?
11:50:33  <TrueBrain> do you want to accept a PR every night?
11:50:52  <LordAro> hence the question :p
11:52:14  <TrueBrain> so 39 issues to close before weekend ends ..
11:54:46  <TrueBrain> #4684 .. is that something we want?
11:55:03  <TrueBrain> as you can also go the other way, that shift never executes anything
11:56:24  <andythenorth> ok /me BBL
11:56:30  <andythenorth> maybe it's 200 when I return :D
11:56:34  <TrueBrain> lol
11:56:39  <andythenorth> lol innit
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12:36:12  <TrueBrain> weird .. I just forced pushed to my branch, and the PR updated correctly
12:36:23  <TrueBrain> frosch123: to what did you force push your updated PR?
12:37:02  <TrueBrain> and can you try rebasing and pushing again? (to your own fork)
12:45:24  <frosch123> rebased and pushed, jenkins job is queued
12:45:28  <frosch123> let's see
12:45:42  <TrueBrain> nope, didnt change anything
12:45:45  <TrueBrain> weird it worked for me
12:45:51  <TrueBrain> I dont see what would be different
12:46:55  <frosch123> well, apparently we were not the only ones with that issue, so maybe it gets fixed next week
12:47:13  <TrueBrain> I just wonder how what I do and what you do differ ..
12:47:18  <TrueBrain> or if it is RNG
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12:47:36  <frosch123> TrueBrain: i pushed while jenkins was still building
12:47:41  <frosch123> yesterday
12:47:47  <TrueBrain> doesnt matter; jenkins only pulls it at the start
12:47:50  <TrueBrain> than never again
12:47:59  <frosch123> but github did not receive a result from the check yet
12:48:21  <TrueBrain> I really hope that doesnt matter at all, as those are separate
12:48:28  <TrueBrain> it is the git informing of the wrong data
12:48:32  <TrueBrain> status of commits are tracked outside of git
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12:48:46  <TrueBrain> but we also had a PR with the same issue, where Jenkins was already finished
12:48:51  <TrueBrain> so that seems to be completely unrelated
12:49:00  <TrueBrain> if not, GH has some serious issues :D
12:49:25  <frosch123> it broke on their 10th aniversary
12:49:43  <frosch123> must be related :)
12:53:45  <TrueBrain> I hate that you cannot see tweets and responses on twitter without an account
12:53:47  <TrueBrain> which I refuse
12:57:06  <LordAro> huh?
12:58:31  <TrueBrain> good conversation, tnx :)
12:59:07  <frosch123> that changed last year
12:59:13  <frosch123> was possible before
12:59:25  <TrueBrain> yup; I really hate this attitude more and more companies have
12:59:33  <TrueBrain> gating information
12:59:35  <TrueBrain> ugh
13:00:34  <LordAro> nope, don't understand, you can see tweets and responses fine when not logged in
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13:02:41  <frosch123> LordAro: <- click "Tweets &  replies" at the top
13:03:52  <frosch123> haha, people thanking for "bugs" fixed, which probably never were bugs :)
13:03:59  <LordAro> interesting
13:04:06  <LordAro> well, you can still look at individual tweets fine
13:04:54  <peter1138> Hmm.
13:05:01  <peter1138> I have an account, and I can't click on Tweets & Replies.
13:05:32  <peter1138> But only on OpenTTDnews. I can for other tweet users.
13:09:26  <TrueBrain> I find it weird that not many more projects have issues with forced pushes tbh ..
13:10:03  <peter1138> Maybe they don't do it?
13:10:11  <TrueBrain> googling for github is annoying, with so many unrelated hits ..
13:12:17  <frosch123> i test-pushed an additional commit to the branch, let's see what happens when not-force pushing for once
13:13:18  <TrueBrain> that did work
13:13:38  <TrueBrain> and if you now remove it again? :D
13:13:46  <frosch123> i'll wait until jenkins is done and then force-push a removal :)
13:14:10  <TrueBrain> I can help speeding up that process
13:14:42  <TrueBrain> there you go
13:16:42  <frosch123> nope
13:17:00  <TrueBrain> that worked :o
13:17:14  <frosch123> hmm, did you trigger it again?
13:17:17  <TrueBrain> no
13:17:43  <TrueBrain> it takes a few seconds for Jenkins to say it is working on it, and your hash already had a failed result on it
13:17:48  <TrueBrain> (but that was because it could not find the hash)
13:17:59  <TrueBrain> but I now see the correct ref in my local git checkout
13:18:18  <TrueBrain> so it really is a GitHub issue
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13:27:21  <frosch123> pff, my eints test svn is too old, it does not know the certs to pull
13:28:11  <frosch123> s/svn/vm/
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14:22:02  <peter1138> Right, well, that's me and the bike cleaned off.
14:29:53  <TrueBrain> you got to love that the only way I can test Jenkinsfiles, is by simply pushing them ... :(
14:39:29  <peter1138> It works in a PR, no?
14:50:16  <LordAro> ah, the fun of setting up/changing a CI environment
14:52:06  <TrueBrain> "fun" he said
14:53:15  <TrueBrain> writing a language that is poorly designed .. "fun"
14:53:45  <peter1138> Designed?
14:53:48  <peter1138> Heh
14:56:55  <LordAro> :p
14:57:43  <TrueBrain> finally this seems valid groovy .. now lets see if it also does what I hope it does :D
15:10:36  <TrueBrain> sorry for the spam LordAro :P
15:14:25  <peter1138> Hmm, should I do this indirect railtypes thing?
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15:17:36  <andythenorth> o/
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15:19:47  <LordAro> TrueBrain: so spam, interestingly
15:19:53  <LordAro> no*
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15:20:56  <TrueBrain> hmm, been pushing to that PR like a mofo
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15:22:23  <peter1138> Hmm, should I have a beer?
15:22:35  <andythenorth> the sun is out
15:22:41  <peter1138> It is, but I am no longer.
15:22:48  <andythenorth> I would if I didn't have to drive
15:22:58  <andythenorth> 1st sun in 6 months
15:23:13  <peter1138> There was a bit last week!
15:23:16  <peter1138> Not as much though.
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15:23:28  <andythenorth> peter1138 I had my actual coat off
15:23:32  <andythenorth> I left my hat in the van
15:23:36  <andythenorth> it must be summer already
15:23:38  <peter1138> I had my legs out!
15:24:04  <peter1138> Although they were mostly covered in mud.
15:25:50  <TrueBrain> and the errors Jenkins give are totally useless
15:34:07  <TrueBrain> I fully get why people just start a shells cript in Jenkins ...
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15:38:29  <TrueBrain> finally
15:40:26  <andythenorth> looks like we use a thing called groovy
15:40:35  <andythenorth> and that has logic, that triggers shell scripts
15:40:53  <TrueBrain> yes; that is why groovy is such fail; everyone runs to shell scripts as soon as they possibly can
15:41:25  <TrueBrain> but, the CI now reports in a much nicer way the status to GitHub
15:41:45  <TrueBrain> and it now first runs commit checkers, then clang/gcc on amd64, and only then i386
15:41:58  <TrueBrain> and only after that, when I am done with it, OSX and mingw
15:42:03  <andythenorth> blog post says it's painful eh
15:42:05  <TrueBrain> so the most likely failures are as early as possible
15:42:08  <TrueBrain> reducing waste on CPU
15:43:30  <LordAro> :)
15:44:28  <TrueBrain> still takes horribly long, but that is just OpenTTD :)
15:46:05  <LordAro> needs more cpus
15:46:07  <LordAro> :p
15:47:22  <TrueBrain> what is really bad design, the 'parallel' statement cannot be restricted
15:47:28  <TrueBrain> os it can really kill the machine
15:47:41  <TrueBrain> normally you do node restriction or so, but because of dockers, that is far from easy
15:47:43  <TrueBrain> meh
15:47:48  <TrueBrain> owh well, it is a bit better now at least :)
15:48:08  <TrueBrain> will add some memory to the machine later; might also greatly help :)
15:48:43  <TrueBrain> ccache might also be really worth it ..
15:48:53  <TrueBrain> now first, food and movie :)
15:54:22  <frosch123> last time we named the project in eints "OpenTTD Trunk"... but "OpenTTD master" sounds weird
15:57:07  <andythenorth> it's still trunk no?
15:57:16  <andythenorth> master is just the git name for that branch eh :P
15:57:32  <andythenorth> if we used hg we wouldn't switch the name to 'default'
15:57:37  <andythenorth> that would be daft :)
15:57:40  <frosch123> well, let's keep it at that, less work converting the eints data
15:57:54  <andythenorth> :)
15:58:08  <frosch123> TrueBrain: i pushed, works more or less the same as
15:58:29  <LordAro> could rename the branch to trunk :p
15:58:47  <LordAro> no rules on "master" branch actually being called "master"
15:58:57  <peter1138> No.
16:03:28  <peter1138> Hmm, maybe I should mow the lawn.
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16:12:06  <andythenorth> I'm supposed to be doing yoga to unfuck my back
16:12:15  <andythenorth> but I got distracted playing ottd
16:20:07  <andythenorth> hmm
16:20:12  <andythenorth> someone should make a decent station set
16:25:20  <peter1138> MB did that.
16:25:33  <peter1138> And there's that other one.
16:25:41  <LordAro> is MB the only person who understands grf stations?
16:26:12  <frosch123> i think mart3p did the most advanced stuff
16:26:52  <peter1138> LordAro, nah, I made some too.
16:27:33  <LordAro> i seem to recall the station set Yexo (& andythenorth?) made was for the purposes of working out how to add stations to NML
16:27:40  <LordAro> and then Yexo vanished
16:28:42  <andythenorth> yexo didn't so much vanish, as get a job at Google
16:29:07  <LordAro> oh that's where he went?
16:29:11  <LordAro> figures
16:29:15  <LordAro> @seen Yexo
16:29:15  <DorpsGek> LordAro: Yexo was last seen in #openttd 5 years, 19 weeks, 3 days, 3 hours, 12 minutes, and 43 seconds ago: <Yexo> <NGC3982> The station glitches are CHIPS related. I adressed it to Andy the other day, and it seems like it's b0rked in some way. <- it's still in the issue tracker for CHIPS, but I haven't had time to look at it yet
16:29:22  <LordAro> ah, CHIPS
16:29:23  <LordAro> :)
16:30:16  <andythenorth> it's "fine"
16:30:24  <andythenorth> it just lacks a bbit of pzazz
16:35:50  <andythenorth> NML stations for 2020 release? o_O
16:38:09  <peter1138> What's not understandable about newstations?
16:38:12  <peter1138> newgrf station
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16:39:27  <frosch123> the most silly part is that there are only 4 tile types, when there are 8 possible combinations of flags to assign to them
16:39:49  <frosch123> that makes any high level language beyond arcane
16:43:04  <peter1138> Well, different flags will be either dealt with by callbacks or just different station parts.
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16:46:07  <peter1138> Maybe extend the spec to support industry-tile-like layouts.
16:46:25  <peter1138> NML supports that, right?
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16:47:13  <frosch123> yes, but the most weird aspect is still the track/non-track, pylon/no-pylon, wire/no-wire part
16:47:37  <frosch123> every tilespec can pick 4 of them
16:52:49  <peter1138> In ttdpatch world, non-track were always separate parts.
16:53:34  <peter1138> But we could extend from 4 tiles to something else.
16:53:57  <frosch123> hmm, there are no grfs which combine track and non-track in the same part?
16:54:18  <frosch123> hmm, maybe that is a useful thing to enforce in nml then
16:54:32  <peter1138> Doesn't it support callbacks to effectively have more than 4(8) layouts?
16:54:53  <frosch123> no, you can have many spritelayouts, but only 4 tile layouts
16:55:23  <frosch123> and tile layout only affects the 3 things above, and some "tile layout of adjacent tile" var
16:55:27  <frosch123> (iirc)
16:55:43  <peter1138> CB 14
16:55:53  <peter1138> "You can use this to have more than 4 different sprite sets to choose from."
16:55:53  <frosch123> that's why i would like to completely hide the existence of tile layouts
16:56:18  <frosch123> CB 14 is sprite layout
16:56:26  <frosch123> cb 24 is tile layout
16:56:39  <frosch123> cb 24 is called on constructon and stored in map
16:56:43  <peter1138> Yes
16:56:43  <frosch123> cb 14 is called when drawing
16:56:50  <peter1138> Yup
16:56:55  <frosch123> cb 24 decides non-track, wires, pylons
16:57:00  <frosch123> cb 14 decides rest
16:57:06  <peter1138> Right.
16:57:28  <frosch123> i would like to hide the existence of cb24 :p
16:58:39  <frosch123> i..e. nml should not have a decide-tilelayout callback, but a decide wires/pylon callback
16:58:51  <frosch123> while track/non-track is fixed
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17:01:49  <andythenorth> meh
17:01:59  <frosch123> yoga?
17:01:59  <andythenorth> I posted about stations, but logs show it didn't arrive :P
17:02:44  <andythenorth> "their action 2, 3 chain doesn't work like industries"
17:02:54  <andythenorth> "but eh, it's just weird, not broken"
17:03:21  <frosch123> the a123 thing is a marginal difference imo
17:05:53  <andythenorth> well
17:06:12  <andythenorth> I just find it bizarre that the spritelayout is in the action 0
17:06:13  <andythenorth>
17:06:28  <andythenorth> I guess it is what it is
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17:21:05  <peter1138> I imagine if it was developed now it'd be the same as the others.
17:22:35  <andythenorth> nml could hide it away
17:22:44  <andythenorth> although that's a bit weird if you're me
17:23:05  <andythenorth> I often use the nfo docs to write nml :P
17:26:36  <Eddi|zuHause> if we were to revise station spec, i'd suggest splitting non-track from railway stations
17:26:52  <Eddi|zuHause> so you have something resemling an object, but it affects station catchment
17:27:21  <Eddi|zuHause> (and allow for the possibility to affect more than that, like base station rating or rating decay)
17:28:42  <peter1138> Yeah but no, we'd like to keep compatible.
17:28:52  <peter1138> Well, I would.
17:29:03  <Eddi|zuHause> sure, keep the old spec, but make it deprecated
17:29:16  <peter1138> Also, docks.
17:29:26  <Eddi|zuHause> grand unified station spec
17:29:41  <peter1138> Or disjointed.
17:29:50  <peter1138> Airport Tiles are already separate.
17:30:23  <peter1138> See, s/Airport Tiles/Station Tiles/ maybe...
17:31:01  <Eddi|zuHause> i imagine things like "livestock pen: subtract 30 days from 'last visited' time for livestock rating calculation"
17:31:51  <Eddi|zuHause> or 10*(2.5 days), or whatever unit we have there
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17:31:54  <peter1138> Nothing much seems to be airport specific in them. Hmm.
17:31:58  <peter1138> At least, spec-wise.
17:32:26  <peter1138> Well, other than Airports are their own grf type.
17:32:43  <peter1138> feature, I mean.
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17:33:40  <andythenorth> station objects
17:33:44  <andythenorth> station tiles
17:33:53  <andythenorth> any-vehicle-station-tiles
17:33:55  * andythenorth words
17:34:09  <peter1138> Ish.
17:34:10  <Eddi|zuHause> *cough*statemachines*cough*
17:34:15  <peter1138> Road vehicles may need... yeah that.
17:34:28  <peter1138> Also! Diagonal stations!
17:34:32  <peter1138> That was a very old patch :p
17:34:40  <Eddi|zuHause> well those would be trivial if you had statemachines
17:35:31  <Eddi|zuHause> imagine the possibilities, you could have a hopper loading station that loads hoppers one-by-one and sends the train one vehicle forward each time
17:35:58  <peter1138> Oh please.
17:36:26  <andythenorth> :|
17:36:36  <andythenorth> I don't know if it's genius or the worst thing ever :P
17:36:49  <andythenorth> I can watch hopper trains load on YT though :P
17:36:51  <andythenorth> and even have
17:41:13  <peter1138> I'm not sure a single-tile state machine will enable that :p
17:42:57  <andythenorth> sad times
17:43:03  <andythenorth> let's delete the repo :)
17:43:06  <andythenorth> or not
17:46:44  <Eddi|zuHause> well, if you take airports as a base, you probably need a statemachine for a (rectangular?) set of tiles
17:47:27  <Eddi|zuHause> but if you want to extend that to train stations, you need the ability for two state machines to connect to each other to form one platform state machine
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18:11:14  <TrueBrain> glx: we found out that if you push a fake commit to your branch, and push that; then remove the fake commit, and force push that, the PR unlocks :)
18:11:22  <TrueBrain> ("fake" commit is just anything)
18:11:30  <TrueBrain> just as long as it is a new commit
18:11:34  <TrueBrain> guess even an empty commit would do :)
18:12:26  <TrueBrain> WTB: Jenkinsfile reviewer :)
18:13:58  <TrueBrain> frosch123: lol; I merged 2 commits quickly; now the commit-checker failed on the first I merged, as it is not up-ot-date :D (as the second was already on top of it :D)
18:14:05  <TrueBrain> that is funny :D
18:15:04  <frosch123> so you are done with jenkins?
18:15:14  <TrueBrain> yup
18:15:15  <frosch123> i did not know whether you needed that pr just for testing
18:15:26  <TrueBrain> owh, no, it is done :) Check the CI details :)
18:15:30  <TrueBrain> arent they a lot better now? :)
18:15:42  <frosch123> yes, read them earlier
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18:16:02  <TrueBrain> wauw, someone did the README :)
18:16:17  <Eddi|zuHause> "WTB" stands for "Weird TrueBrain"?
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18:20:06  <TrueBrain> tnx frosch123 :)
18:22:36  <Gagarin228> Hey, guys. I have original Transport Tycoon game (NOT Deluxe) and I want attach graphics from there to OpenTTD. So, I have files TREND.GRF, TRHCOM.GRF and other, is it possible to load it as game graphic set?
18:23:06  <frosch123> no
18:23:14  <Gagarin228> Because OpenTTD "DOS graphic set" is from Deluxe.
18:23:21  <Gagarin228> No any ways?
18:23:27  <frosch123> deluxe has a lot more graphics
18:23:39  <frosch123> you can load original savegames, but you can only use deluxe graphics
18:23:42  <Gagarin228> It is another graphic.
18:23:55  <Eddi|zuHause> Gagarin228: there is a "original conversion set" that tries to incorporate some original graphics
18:24:05  <Eddi|zuHause> Gagarin228: but you still need a standard base set
18:24:21  <Gagarin228> Well. Maybe it is possible in old OTTD versions?
18:24:27  <Eddi|zuHause> no
18:25:01  <Gagarin228> Thanks.
18:25:55  <andythenorth> my OpenTTD cursor keeps locking to left-side of screen
18:25:57  <andythenorth> until I click
18:25:59  <andythenorth> weird eh
18:26:24  <TrueBrain> andythenorth: 235 .. best I can do for today :) :D
18:26:29  <andythenorth> winner
18:26:39  <andythenorth> some actually need fixed eh :)
18:26:50  <TrueBrain> there are a few easy ones
18:27:01  <TrueBrain> but .. it seems it really needs work from there on out :)
18:28:19  <andythenorth> cut out 50 as a targert
18:28:24  <andythenorth> target *
18:28:36  <andythenorth> make a 1.9.x release from it
18:28:46  <andythenorth> or 1.8.x or whatever we're on
18:28:48  <TrueBrain> setting milestones is not a bad idea tbh :)
18:28:50  * andythenorth loses count
18:29:06  <andythenorth> dunno if devs here like milestone thinking, it's a bit like being project managed
18:29:19  <andythenorth> but for FIRS I have a burn-down list for each release
18:29:20  <Eddi|zuHause> bugs go into 1.8.x, features go into 1.9.0
18:29:26  <andythenorth> fair point
18:29:35  <TrueBrain> its just nice to agree on what things you want to fix for the next release :)
18:29:50  <andythenorth> yair
18:29:56  <andythenorth> and maybe group things
18:30:05  <andythenorth> instead of random stuff here and htere
18:30:12  <Eddi|zuHause> people will come at you with "but you promised this would be in release <X>" when you didn't do a thing
18:30:24  <TrueBrain> anyone who says that, send them to me
18:30:31  <TrueBrain> I will show them what I think of that attitude
18:30:40  <andythenorth> paying customers can do that
18:30:55  <TrueBrain> what was the quote .. "I will pay you back the money you paid us for doing this release"
18:31:00  <andythenorth> pretty much
18:31:08  <andythenorth> I return 100% of fee to unsatisfied customers
18:31:08  <TrueBrain> then I will get a stick
18:31:14  <andythenorth> no quibble
18:31:14  <TrueBrain> and see how far I can stick it up .. wait .. wrong story-book
18:31:24  <andythenorth> actually providing any warranty, even money back
18:31:33  <andythenorth> probably violates wording of standard GPL
18:31:52  <andythenorth> hmm
18:31:57  <TrueBrain> I am a really big fan of Agile. I really like the rush of getting stuff done. The commitment really motivates
18:32:01  <andythenorth> +1
18:32:26  <andythenorth> also I have 12 wagons that can carry copper in this grf
18:32:30  <andythenorth> but I want more :P
18:32:40  <TrueBrain> do you also have tin?
18:32:48  <TrueBrain> then I can make brass out of it!
18:33:32  <andythenorth> not in this economy
18:33:34  <andythenorth> it's zinc
18:33:37  <andythenorth> I had tin, but removed it
18:33:48  <TrueBrain> no minecraft fan? Awh :(
18:36:09  <TrueBrain> ccache (faster CI), OSX Docker, vpkg or cmake .. what to do first ..
18:36:27  <LordAro> we've already broken OSX once :)
18:36:37  <TrueBrain> OSX will be a cross-compiler
18:36:41  <TrueBrain> that error would not have been picked up
18:36:45  <LordAro> ah
18:37:01  <Eddi|zuHause> is tin in minecraft nowadays?
18:37:31  <Eddi|zuHause> i only played ancient versions, i think
18:39:50  <LordAro> not without mods
18:40:16  <TrueBrain> owh, I can also look into eints.. guess that is more important
18:40:21  <TrueBrain> but that requires braincells
18:40:23  <TrueBrain> ugh
18:40:53  <andythenorth> I seem to need 3 different kinds of metal wagon :P
18:40:56  <andythenorth> maybe 4
18:40:58  <andythenorth> bit weird
18:47:26  <TrueBrain> right .. this Jenkins job is done, but is not finishing
18:47:28  <TrueBrain> how annoying
18:48:38  <TrueBrain> it didnt see a docker finished
18:48:39  <TrueBrain> oef
18:49:02  <TrueBrain> lets upgrade some things, and try again
18:49:28  <Gagarin228> Well. I think it is possible to port TT graphics from DOS version to set for OTTD, but only manually and by skilled people. This is result after I chose TT’s GRF files in OTTD:
18:50:44  <LordAro> i'm honestly surprised it got as far as that
18:51:13  <Gagarin228> I hope, parts of understandable graphics is from old GRF-file, not glitched from another files.
18:51:26  <Gagarin228> Just tried XD
18:51:58  <andythenorth> @calc 136 / 235
18:51:58  <DorpsGek> andythenorth: 0.578723404255
18:52:05  <andythenorth> 57% of issues are bugs :)
18:52:10  <LordAro> the point remains though, that you're missing plenty of actual graphics
18:52:12  <andythenorth>
18:53:54  <TrueBrain> right ... CF has more memory, and upgraded Jenkins .. lucky enough, that is trivial :D
18:54:10  <TrueBrain> (shutdown, docker pull jenkins/jenkins, ./run_jenkins) :D
18:55:13  <Gagarin228> It is possible to load saved game from TT for DOS, but it looks differently, so I thought about it.
18:56:54  <frosch123> yes, you can load them. it converts everything to the closest match
18:56:56  <Eddi|zuHause> Gagarin228: have you looked at ?
18:59:25  <andythenorth> 'squash the bugs' milestone? o_O
18:59:30  <andythenorth> not glamorous, but healthy
18:59:49  <TrueBrain> andythenorth: lets give it some room to breath :)
19:00:17  <TrueBrain> yippie, made cloning a lot faster :D Jenkins has a solution for that :D (reference clones)
19:00:45  <TrueBrain> that is going to save a lot of bandwidth :)
19:00:54  <LordAro> :)
19:01:23  <TrueBrain> wait, this machine has 8 cores .. why did I only assign 2 ..
19:02:30  <TrueBrain> glx: I cancelled your build btw :)
19:02:36  <TrueBrain> (so dont be surprised it is red now :D)
19:02:38  *** tokai has joined #openttd
19:02:38  *** ChanServ sets mode: +v tokai
19:03:43  <TrueBrain> glx: yup, now we see the right commit again :) It will be build in a jiffy :)
19:04:40  *** Wacko1976 has joined #openttd
19:05:24  <Eddi|zuHause> <something about Giles and Buffy>
19:05:32  <LordAro> TrueBrain: you should make redirect somewhere
19:05:44  <TrueBrain> good point
19:05:45  <Eddi|zuHause> man that was a long time ago
19:06:23  <Eddi|zuHause> TrueBrain: maybe also a ""?
19:06:45  <TrueBrain> why?
19:06:53  <Eddi|zuHause> no idea
19:07:00  <Eddi|zuHause> the link in the topic is a bit long though
19:07:17  <TrueBrain> that is a good enough reason
19:07:52  <TrueBrain> LordAro: a pull request that can be described as: the gift that keeps on giving :)
19:08:27  *** andythenorth has quit IRC
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19:13:27  <TrueBrain> glx: please rebase your PR :)
19:13:42  <TrueBrain> we really have to rethink our current demand of rebased before CI works, but .. it is what it is :(
19:14:03  *** muffindrake1 has joined #openttd
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19:16:06  <frosch123> TrueBrain: should we add an automatic rebase to the ci?
19:16:32  <frosch123> reject if auto-rebase fails
19:16:50  <TrueBrain> I like that idea
19:16:56  <TrueBrain> I really do
19:17:00  <TrueBrain> easy .. efficient
19:17:05  <TrueBrain> let me try that in a bit :)
19:17:20  <TrueBrain> LordAro: redirect in place
19:17:22  <TrueBrain> @op
19:17:23  *** DorpsGek sets mode: +o TrueBrain
19:17:42  *** TrueBrain changes topic to "1.8.0 | Website: * (source: github, translator: translator, server list: servers, wiki: wiki, release info: finger) | Don't ask to ask, just ask | 'Latest' is not a valid version, 'Most recent' neither | English only | Logs: @logs | if this channel is really spammy"
19:17:43  *** TrueBrain sets mode: +l 99
19:17:45  <TrueBrain> @deop
19:17:45  *** DorpsGek sets mode: -o TrueBrain
19:17:47  <TrueBrain> Eddi|zuHause: there you go
19:17:59  <Eddi|zuHause> aye
19:19:54  <Eddi|zuHause> next idea that i'm not sure about: have "" as clone url? might mess up people that try to update their old clones
19:20:08  <frosch123> hmm, what is the fastest way to get to an issue if you have the number?
19:20:12  <Gagarin228> Eddi|zuHause: I checked it… Thank you.
19:20:14  <frosch123> i keep on editing the url myself
19:20:24  <TrueBrain> frosch123: is what I do ..
19:20:42  <TrueBrain> Eddi|zuHause: you can clone I think
19:20:44  <Gagarin228> I have graphic conversion for save and save, but can’t use this newrgf in my save
19:20:46  <TrueBrain> as it redirects to github :D
19:20:57  <TrueBrain> just the old URL doesnt work
19:21:00  <TrueBrain> and that is intentional
19:21:20  <TrueBrain> if/when andy is done writing an article for the frontpage, svn:// is also going to be unavailable
19:21:25  <TrueBrain> (will be svn://
19:21:34  <Eddi|zuHause> alright
19:21:34  <TrueBrain> as otherwise a large portion of people will never notice this :)
19:21:41  <TrueBrain> (upstream maintainers, mostly)
19:22:08  <Gagarin228> Is it possible to change NewGRF for saved game? Or in game.
19:22:32  <Eddi|zuHause> TrueBrain: are there fancy "moved permanently" errors you can give out for people trying to access it?
19:23:09  <TrueBrain> as far as I am aware, subversion has no MOTD
19:23:18  <frosch123> he, jenkins also counts the queuing time to the duration... that's why the builds take so differently long
19:23:32  <TrueBrain> frosch123: yes .. it is annoying me :P
19:23:40  <LordAro> svn handles a 301 by telling you about it, rather than following the redirect
19:23:41  <TrueBrain> glx: that didnt go well ..
19:23:43  <LordAro> so people will notice
19:23:46  <TrueBrain> no clue what happened
19:24:02  <TrueBrain> LordAro: 301 over svn protocol?
19:24:03  <glx> I almost broke my local repo ;)
19:24:05  <TrueBrain> what are you smoking? :D
19:24:21  <LordAro> TrueBrain: ...shh
19:24:23  <TrueBrain> :D
19:24:35  <TrueBrain> glx: its really weird honestly .. github should do this for you
19:27:18  <TrueBrain> frosch123: reason it does that (the duration), is because the master is available, the job starts .. then it needs a slave .. and that is blocked :)
19:29:32  <glx> svn was way easier for me :)
19:29:54  <TrueBrain> centralized linear histories always are
19:30:20  <LordAro> it should be simpler than it is currently being
19:30:34  <TrueBrain> with my latest commit, rebasing is no longer a requirement
19:30:38  <TrueBrain> guess that helps
19:31:43  <LordAro> TrueBrain: i don't fully understand the point of doing that, can you explain?
19:31:55  <TrueBrain> what part exactly?
19:31:58  <TrueBrain> rebasing in the CI?
19:32:00  <LordAro> yeah
19:32:11  <TrueBrain> when we are going to merge, we either rebase or squash, so on top
19:32:21  <TrueBrain> the biggest worry we have, that a PR is stale, but no merge conflict
19:32:23  <TrueBrain> so both options work
19:32:34  <TrueBrain> but requiring that PRs are fresh, turns out to be annoying as fuck
19:32:42  <TrueBrain> so there has to be a bit of middleground
19:32:46  <LordAro> ah, i see
19:32:47  <TrueBrain> now we rebase on CI
19:32:58  <TrueBrain> so his result holds true for that current master and the content of the PR
19:33:05  <TrueBrain> even if the PR was a few days old
19:33:15  <TrueBrain> of course if master moves forward, PRs CI result invalidates
19:33:16  <LordAro> makes sense, although it might be unclear to people exactly why their PR fails when running tests on their branch themselves works fine
19:33:25  <TrueBrain> for that you have links :)
19:33:29  <TrueBrain> you can click on a CI failure
19:34:36  <TrueBrain> but of course it is up to the devs to instruct PR-authors how to proceed
19:34:45  <TrueBrain> just a simple: can you please rebase to the latest master, goes a long way :)
19:36:11  <LordAro> yeah, but the rebase can work fine, but still result in a build failure
19:36:16  <TrueBrain> yup
19:36:23  <LordAro> which could be unclear as to the reasons why
19:36:25  <TrueBrain> there is no perfect solution :)
19:36:36  <TrueBrain> but I rather know if I approve something, it will work in master
19:36:50  <TrueBrain> than not have a confused PR author from time to time, and break master more often :)
19:37:11  <TrueBrain> as the current: fail if the PR is not up-to-date, also turns out to be really annoying :)
19:37:44  <glx> even worse if you just rebased before doing the PR ;)
19:38:19  <TrueBrain> ugh .. we need more build nodes :D
19:38:42  <glx> still queued
19:38:54  <TrueBrain> 15  minutes per CI check :)
19:39:13  <glx> and not yet checking MSVC
19:39:30  <TrueBrain> ugh ... indeed
19:39:59  <TrueBrain> I wonder how to add ccache .. having the cache survive is a bit tricky
19:47:33  <Gagarin228> TTO Conversion v1.4.1 working. But it doesn’t much at all, only replaces little of tiles. Anyway I’m already tired for this today. Here is how looks graphics in TT for DOS and (below) "DOS graphic" in OTTD v1.8.0:
19:47:49  <glx> at least CI works this time
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20:06:41  <TrueBrain> tnx glx :) Now lets try if my Jenkins-fix works :D (my PR is no longer up-to-date :D)
20:08:13  <frosch123> 5 succesful checks :)
20:10:43  <frosch123> does git rebase return a negative status  on conflicts?
20:10:52  <TrueBrain> I hoped so :D
20:10:53  <TrueBrain> didnt check
20:10:55  <TrueBrain> good question
20:10:58  <TrueBrain> lets find out :D
20:12:03  <frosch123> docs only mention status in case of interactive rebase
20:12:10  <TrueBrain> return code 128
20:14:17  <frosch123> hmm, it only says "required" on the first check
20:14:28  <TrueBrain> yup
20:14:36  <TrueBrain> if he is green, they all are
20:14:57  <TrueBrain> (and if one is red, he is too)
20:15:47  <frosch123> ok, i thought that part was only the clone
20:16:01  <TrueBrain> no; the jenkins entry is the total job that runs
20:16:07  <TrueBrain> I cannot disable or manipulate it :D
20:16:14  <TrueBrain> so I just extended on it, and from there, added a few others
20:16:24  <TrueBrain> it is only meant to easier spot what went wrong
20:31:21  <frosch123> @op
20:31:21  *** DorpsGek sets mode: +o frosch123
20:31:47  *** frosch123 sets mode: -l 
20:32:08  <frosch123> since when has the channel limit only two digits?
20:32:57  <glx> last bot invasion maybe
20:32:59  <LordAro> but there are 127 people here?
20:33:11  <frosch123> i set it to 150 after the last bots
20:33:12  <glx> or the previous one
20:33:18  <frosch123> now it suddenly was 99, and i cannot set it higher
20:33:53  *** andythenorth has joined #openttd
20:33:57  <andythenorth> boom
20:35:01  <frosch123> i guess you cannot reduce the number of people in this channel like you reduced the number of open issues :p
20:35:28  <andythenorth> enforced #openttd break :P
20:35:37  <peter1138> Hmm
20:36:23  <andythenorth> exercise bike lacks a beer holder
20:36:27  <andythenorth> they should remedy that
20:37:17  <LordAro> haha
20:37:25  <peter1138> So I did my exercise today.
20:37:41  <peter1138> And then I went to a bloody all-you-can-eat Chinese buffet restaurant...
20:38:37  <frosch123> was everything fried, or was it a real chinese place?
20:38:42  <andythenorth> oops
20:39:14  <peter1138> Fried? No, not everything.
20:42:02  <andythenorth> @seen pikka
20:42:02  <DorpsGek> andythenorth: pikka was last seen in #openttd 12 hours, 55 minutes, and 55 seconds ago: <Pikka> I'll have to try it. could do a multiplayer game again?
20:43:48  <TrueBrain> frosch123: weird .. it was 120 last time I changed the topic
20:44:02  <TrueBrain> euh .. not 120 .. well, above 100
20:44:07  <TrueBrain> as it made me laugh we still had a limit
20:44:27  *** ToffeeYogurtPots has quit IRC
20:44:31  <TrueBrain> [21:17] *** You set the channel limit to 99 nicks.(I18N_PLURAL_ARGUMENT_MISSING)
20:44:35  <TrueBrain> ah ... so I did it with changing the topic
20:44:39  <frosch123> i set it permanently when this channel performed worst on oftc :)
20:44:45  *** ToffeeYogurtPots has joined #openttd
20:45:04  <frosch123> one time >1000 bots joined
20:45:05  <TrueBrain> andythenorth: how is the announcement going? :)
20:45:17  <frosch123> ottd was 1st channel on oftc :)
20:45:24  <andythenorth> I was considering closing the paste tab I have open :P
20:45:30  <andythenorth> are comms over-rated?
20:45:56  <TrueBrain> frosch123: w00p!
20:46:02  <TrueBrain> why are we not moving to Slack or something? :)
20:46:04  <TrueBrain> Discord? :P
20:46:10  <TrueBrain> I dislike Discord with many people
20:46:12  <TrueBrain> makes my head spin
20:46:25  <frosch123> how many are many?
20:46:31  <TrueBrain> right, left a pro-GDPR post on the forums :D
20:46:34  <TrueBrain> 10+
20:46:43  <TrueBrain> here 1 line of text is 1 line of text
20:46:48  <TrueBrain> on Discord it has this whole bla around it
20:47:02  <TrueBrain> 2 lines + a <hr>
20:47:11  <Eddi|zuHause> we should move to freenode!
20:47:17  <TrueBrain> fuck freenode
20:47:32  <TrueBrain> for the shit they pulled, I never forgive them I guess :D
20:47:33  <TrueBrain> not bitter
20:47:48  <glx> I'm on freenode, it's a pain to manage channels
20:48:09  <andythenorth> armchair GDPR stuff eh?
20:48:17  <TrueBrain> armchair?
20:48:50  <frosch123> how about eddi moves to freenode? :p
20:48:53  *** sla_ro|master has quit IRC
20:49:03  <TrueBrain> frosch123: only if mb goes with him :D
20:49:10  * andythenorth wants an armchair exercise bike
20:49:29  <peter1138> I have a recumbent exercise bike, it's pretty similar.
20:49:34  <frosch123> get a pedel-powered irc chat device
20:49:45  <TrueBrain> and I got cookies
20:50:06  <peter1138> No you don't, I ate them.
20:50:13  <TrueBrain> so I went to
20:50:14  <TrueBrain> got plenty moe
20:50:16  <TrueBrain> more
20:50:23  <frosch123> you buy cookies at amazon?
20:50:28  <andythenorth>
20:50:32  <Eddi|zuHause> better than "I 'ate them"
20:50:39  <andythenorth> not quite a haiku
20:50:43  <andythenorth> I can't hailku
20:50:53  <TrueBrain> frosch123: nope, THEY ARE FREE
20:50:56  <TrueBrain> (even if you dont want to)
20:51:02  <andythenorth> peter1138: is it actually any good, recumbent?
20:51:06  <TrueBrain> lol @ andythenorth
20:51:12  <andythenorth> I sometimes bust my back on an upright back
20:51:16  <andythenorth> bike *
20:51:32  <frosch123> oh, you meant to cookies without sugar and fat
20:51:37  <peter1138> Dunno, I've never done a long ride on a recumbent.
20:51:45  <andythenorth> I ride 10km max in one go
20:51:52  <andythenorth> but I want to do more
20:51:54  *** snail_UES_ has quit IRC
20:52:04  <peter1138> Well I've done longer than that on it.
20:52:08  <andythenorth> everything goes fine, then 'ping' in my back and sciatica for 3 days
20:52:34  <Eddi|zuHause> andythenorth: the announcement should probably adress some of the things mentioned in the forum, like how the development process is now going to be handled, how to make pull requests, how to continue to use hg for local develipment, how to communicate with the devs and stuff
20:52:37  <andythenorth> it would be funny to put in 50km a day
20:52:48  <andythenorth> Eddi|zuHause: that's
20:53:05  <peter1138> I did 60km today.
20:53:05  <andythenorth> and mostly tbh I don't care about that stuff, so I'm wrong person to write it
20:53:13  <Eddi|zuHause> andythenorth: that's fine, but it should also be in the announcement
20:53:23  <TrueBrain> so finish :D
20:53:25  <LordAro> peter1138: i walked to the shops today and thought that i should've gone riding todya
20:53:32  <andythenorth> let's bikeshed where the words should be
20:53:35  <andythenorth> before there are words :)
20:53:39  <LordAro> hopefully it's as nice weather tomorrow
20:53:47  <andythenorth> legitimate use of bikeshedding here
20:53:56  <LordAro> ha
20:54:00  <peter1138> Yeah, I intend to go tomorrow, after that big fat chinese :(
20:54:11  <andythenorth> I've seen people use 'bikeshedding' to try and avoid sweating details
20:54:14  <Eddi|zuHause> andythenorth: you just want a reason to get out of writing it in the first place :p
20:54:21  <andythenorth> I wrote two already
20:54:27  <andythenorth> nobody thought they were good
20:54:31  <peter1138> I am bikeshedding my bikeshed.
20:54:36  <andythenorth> you should
20:54:39  <andythenorth> what colour?
20:54:53  <LordAro> blue
20:55:30  <frosch123> TrueBrain: why does 6718 fail with "not on top of master"?
20:55:43  <frosch123> oh wait... i know
20:55:54  <frosch123> it's too old to have the jenkinsfile with the rebase :)
20:55:59  <TrueBrain> yes
20:56:05  <TrueBrain> he needs to rebase before he no longer has to rebase :)
20:56:06  <frosch123> this is so weird :)
20:56:31  <TrueBrain> andythenorth / LordAro: but I could really use a .. we keep talking about it, but it would be really nice
20:57:00  <frosch123> didn't someone post an example from some other project two days ago?
20:57:08  <andythenorth> I did
20:57:10  <TrueBrain> and then it stopped :(
20:57:11  <andythenorth> Bootstrap
20:57:27  <andythenorth>
21:00:31  <LordAro> i think some combination of that and a summary of Coding Style wiki page (at least the commit messages section - that's going to be the most common problem i think) would do great
21:00:58  <frosch123> i feel like that page is too long
21:01:09  <frosch123> it should contain links to other pages to split it up
21:02:22  <andythenorth> it's somewhat a github suggestion
21:02:38  <LordAro> frosch123: hence "summary"
21:02:57  <andythenorth> one long is kind of suggested
21:03:00  <andythenorth> we don't have to comply
21:03:00  <LordAro> i agree, the whole doc should be shorter than bootstrap's, imo
21:03:42  <andythenorth> oh yeah we can cut 50%
21:03:54  <andythenorth> etherpad would be nice for this :P
21:04:07  <andythenorth> we don't have one do we? o_O
21:04:27  <Eddi|zuHause> well, of course nobody will read it. but we need it to point people to when they are wrong
21:04:35  <andythenorth> that's what policy is for
21:04:36  <LordAro> andythenorth:
21:04:36  <andythenorth> always
21:05:00  <andythenorth> we could put it in a PR :P
21:05:04  <andythenorth> and then all bikeshed lines
21:05:18  <andythenorth> let's list sections to delete....
21:05:33  <andythenorth> - Reporting upstream browser bugs
21:05:40  <Eddi|zuHause> there should be no section 4.2
21:05:40  <andythenorth> - Issues bots
21:05:54  <Eddi|zuHause> because that conflicts with the most referenced readme section :p
21:06:24  <frosch123> "4.2. if you were sent to section 4.2, then 4.2 in  [[this document]] was meant"
21:06:56  <andythenorth> where is code style living?
21:07:13  <frosch123>
21:07:24  <frosch123> and it's way too long to put into CONTRIBUTING
21:07:31  <andythenorth> ok
21:07:49  <Eddi|zuHause> there used t be an ancient "development blackbook" section of the wiki, that was marked as outdated right from the beginning
21:07:53  <andythenorth> dunno what my hatred for mediawiki styles is :)
21:08:00  <frosch123> probably there should be links to "code style", "documentation style"; "commit message style" and "client-side commit hook"
21:08:00  <andythenorth> maybe it reminds me of old plone
21:09:12  <Eddi|zuHause> maybe mediawiki is your equivalent to brusselssprouts? :p
21:09:38  <andythenorth> maybe
21:09:47  <andythenorth> bikeshedding again :)
21:10:22  * andythenorth tries reducing Bootstrap
21:11:12  <andythenorth> we can steal Bootstrap's, yes?
21:11:14  <andythenorth> it's MIT
21:12:07  <TrueBrain> just mention it etc
21:16:27  <peter1138> Failed to get repository: database is locked
21:16:29  <peter1138> Hmm :/
21:19:27  <andythenorth> first draft
21:19:33  <andythenorth> just a cut of stuff we don't need
21:19:40  <andythenorth> could PR it if we want to line-by-line comment :P
21:20:28  <andythenorth> I think it can lose another 30% tbh
21:21:44  <frosch123> i agree on not listing the issue labels
21:22:34  <andythenorth> when you have got to end, I'll revise another draft
21:22:35  <frosch123> "check if the issue has been fixed" should probably mention nightly instead of master
21:23:54  *** agentw4b has quit IRC
21:24:10  <andythenorth> noted
21:25:04  *** synchris has quit IRC
21:26:55  <TrueBrain> "You must select a language other than 'text' for this paste." wtf?
21:27:21  <TrueBrain> why on earth?!
21:27:25  <andythenorth> :P
21:27:38  <frosch123> <- andythenorth: that would be our fork process
21:27:54  <TrueBrain>
21:28:46  <frosch123> wow, when did you write that?
21:29:07  <TrueBrain> fuck kittens:
21:29:20  <TrueBrain> frosch123: in the time between andythenorth showing his poem and now
21:29:46  <TrueBrain>
21:29:48  <TrueBrain> fuck pastebin
21:29:50  <TrueBrain> it is annoying
21:29:56  <frosch123> his -> its
21:30:05  <TrueBrain> which his? :P
21:30:14  <frosch123> openttd is not male
21:30:15  <TrueBrain> okay, we need a beter way to fix my spelling errors :D
21:30:50  <TrueBrain> as I am sure you have many more things to fix frosch123 :D
21:30:56  <TrueBrain> (my grammer is not that good)
21:31:15  <LordAro> grammar
21:31:18  <TrueBrain> :D
21:31:19  <LordAro> :p
21:31:26  <TrueBrain> what is a good online tool for sharing documents that doesnt need downloading?
21:31:54  <LordAro> for collaborative editing? google docs, probably
21:32:03  <LordAro> piratepad is a bit simpler
21:32:45  <TrueBrain>
21:32:50  <TrueBrain> frosch123: feel free to make any changes :)
21:33:58  <TrueBrain> somehow it become tits :D
21:34:32  <frosch123> TrueBrain: somewhere the fs migration should mention that issue numbers were kept
21:34:39  <TrueBrain> good point
21:34:43  <TrueBrain> hmm .. piratepad no workie
21:34:54  <TrueBrain> lost connection :D
21:35:04  <TrueBrain> LordAro: what did you do?! :P
21:35:32  <LordAro> hmm
21:37:08  <LordAro> ok yeah, this sucks
21:37:10  <TrueBrain> ffs ... every time I lose connection when I am typing
21:37:13  <TrueBrain> other suggestions?
21:37:27  <TrueBrain> connection simply goes stale
21:37:49  <LordAro> how about this one? does markdown too
21:38:19  <TrueBrain> lets go for that
21:38:20  <andythenorth> CONTRIBUTING is now shorter again
21:38:21  <andythenorth>
21:38:32  <andythenorth> and I stole some TB words about closing feature requests
21:40:14  <andythenorth> also this is probably a whole extra post some day "This of course means that "official" OpenTTD gets into competition with Patchpacks; and we approve of this. We are fully aware it can lead to a Patchpack being more popular than "official" OpenTTD; and we will be upfront about that."
21:40:14  <__ln__> "We ditched .... I strongy advise ..."
21:40:54  <andythenorth> ^^ enabling patchpacks is a strong argument for keeping core minimal, and continuing to push as much as possible onto content
21:41:02  <andythenorth> but also not making the content APIs batshit crazy
21:43:28  <TrueBrain> added some stuff about VCSes
21:43:29  <Eddi|zuHause> andythenorth: i'd spell it "AIs" instead of "AIS"
21:43:43  <andythenorth> changed
21:44:14  <TrueBrain> who ever added \ before +, I copy/paste this on tt-forums; no need for \ :)
21:44:37  <TrueBrain> or do you suggest I copy/paste the render? :D
21:44:53  <TrueBrain> I like that piratepad showed what was edited :P
21:45:13  <andythenorth> we use etherpad at work for similar thing
21:45:22  <TrueBrain> it needed a download :(
21:45:24  <andythenorth> it's really good for spec, also ops firefighting
21:45:37  <andythenorth> also drafting customer emails
21:47:10  <TrueBrain> sadly, I'm in the line of work where putting anything on any cloud is a big no-no
21:47:13  <TrueBrain> makes these things often a bit harder
21:47:45  <andythenorth> hoped you'd say that
21:47:51  <andythenorth> TrueBrain: we host our own etherpad
21:48:07  <andythenorth> we're very limited on public cloud services we can use
21:48:17  <andythenorth> ISO 27001 innit
21:48:31  <frosch123> TrueBrain: awesome text :)
21:48:37  <Eddi|zuHause> andythenorth: at best, a link to a wiki page tracking "good" feature requests. or simply a link to the forums
21:48:38  <TrueBrain> ty :)
21:49:00  <andythenorth> Eddi|zuHause: that wiki page exists and is rotting horribly :)
21:49:11  <andythenorth> I just wonder if it shold be like known_bugs.txt
21:49:11  <Eddi|zuHause> i would expect so :p
21:49:31  <Eddi|zuHause> andythenorth: possible, but then have it in a separate file
21:49:55  <andythenorth>
21:50:00  <Eddi|zuHause> andythenorth: problem is, it still has to be kept up to date
21:50:14  <andythenorth> it's not hard imho
21:50:20  <Eddi|zuHause> andythenorth: so forum is really probably the only place to go
21:50:23  <andythenorth> it's 5 lines
21:50:26  <andythenorth> - overtaking: no
21:50:30  <andythenorth> - subways: no
21:50:37  <andythenorth> - signals on bridges: no
21:50:41  <andythenorth> - diagonal roads: no
21:50:50  <andythenorth> - tunnels under sea: no
21:50:50  <andythenorth> done
21:50:55  <LordAro> haha
21:51:22  <andythenorth> incidentally the average forum / FS requester overlaps strongly with my 8 year old
21:51:42  <andythenorth> he has many many ideas
21:52:04  <__ln__> win-win-win-win = -2win
21:52:21  <Eddi|zuHause> "The issue tracker is the preferred channel for bug reports, features requests and submitting pull requests, but please respect the following restrictions:" <-- i'd take feature requests out of this sentence
21:52:21  <andythenorth> oh look I edited this sometime
21:52:56  <andythenorth> done Eddi|zuHause
21:52:58  <andythenorth> thanks
21:53:29  <Eddi|zuHause> there should be an explanation what a "pull request" is for people who never heard that word before
21:54:01  <andythenorth> can't they google? o_O
21:54:08  <Eddi|zuHause> no.
21:54:13  <andythenorth> if they can't, they won't be able to learn C++
21:54:23  <Eddi|zuHause> wrong argument
21:54:32  <andythenorth> provide a better one? o_O
21:54:45  <__ln__> i started learning C++ before google existed
21:55:05  <TrueBrain> andythenorth: I added eggs to my text :D
21:55:18  <andythenorth> is it in forums yet?
21:55:26  <TrueBrain> no
21:55:30  <TrueBrain> still reading it over
21:55:52  <andythenorth> very responsible :)
21:58:07  <TrueBrain> NO STOP THAT
21:58:10  <TrueBrain> ARGH
21:58:13  <LordAro> i know
21:58:13  <TrueBrain> I am guess LordAro
21:58:19  <TrueBrain> stooppppp making it non copy/pastable :)
21:58:28  <LordAro> it's just the one!
21:58:37  <TrueBrain> its enough! :P
21:58:54  <TrueBrain> its not a markup post! :P
21:59:26  <LordAro> not really an issue as such, but the number of ; in it is interesting
21:59:32  <LordAro> native speakers rarely use ; at all
21:59:38  <TrueBrain> I love ;
21:59:44  <TrueBrain> people dont use it enough
21:59:49  <TrueBrain> I cannot use it in Dutch
21:59:54  <LordAro> ^^
21:59:55  <TrueBrain> well, I can, but not really
21:59:59  <TrueBrain> so yeah ... :D
22:00:09  <TrueBrain> in English it doesnt do anything really :)
22:00:44  <Eddi|zuHause> i find myself using , in a lot of places other people would use .
22:01:11  <Eddi|zuHause> sometimes i go back over sentences changing some , into .
22:01:34  <LordAro> i've found myself using far too many , as well
22:01:38  <Eddi|zuHause> i have no real use for ;
22:01:59  <TrueBrain> the use of ,is far more strict than I would like; hence the ; :D
22:02:11  <LordAro> most people would say the opposite :p
22:02:12  <TrueBrain> (a typical case where I could have used it in Dutch .. dammit!)
22:02:33  <frosch123> i approve any excessive use of ;
22:02:36  <TrueBrain> I leave LordAro making tons of grammar fixes for a bit :)
22:03:07  <TrueBrain> let me know when you are done :)
22:03:15  <Eddi|zuHause> i don't really care about other people's rules for , then :p
22:03:39  <TrueBrain> in Dutch the , is even worse. Everything between two ,  you should be able to remove, without the lose of context
22:03:44  <TrueBrain> basically it means you can never use it :P
22:03:52  <TrueBrain> you can only use it to shit on things
22:04:57  <TrueBrain> I do like to use words in these text that are less common
22:05:06  <TrueBrain> I managed to get quiet a few in there
22:05:15  <TrueBrain> most happy with 'ample' in the right context :)
22:05:42  <TrueBrain> I love languages; which is ironic, as I am dyslectic :D
22:09:44  <TrueBrain> 9500 characters .. I might have overdone this :P
22:19:17  <andythenorth> :P
22:19:20  <andythenorth> nah
22:19:26  <andythenorth> mine was less though ;)
22:19:33  <TrueBrain> yours is included! :P
22:20:15  <andythenorth> save chars, remove it :)
22:20:18  <andythenorth> also I bed
22:20:24  <TrueBrain> sleep well
22:20:33  <andythenorth> it will all be done when I wake eh?
22:20:45  <TrueBrain> yes
22:20:53  <andythenorth> awesome
22:20:54  <andythenorth> bye
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22:23:01  <LordAro> TrueBrain: oki, i'm done
22:23:07  <TrueBrain> cool; tnx a lot :D
22:23:14  <LordAro> had a friend who's recently finished their PhD look over it :)
22:23:20  <LordAro> lots of proofreading there
22:23:28  <TrueBrain> lol
22:23:31  <TrueBrain> bit overkill :D
22:28:49  <TrueBrain> how to post on the frontpage ....
22:32:19  <TrueBrain> frosch123: it is done
22:32:50  <LordAro> :o
22:34:35  <TrueBrain> all links work :)
22:35:11  <LordAro> :)
22:35:37  <TrueBrain> achievement unlocked
22:35:45  <TrueBrain> not sure which
22:35:49  <TrueBrain> but I am sure it has to be one
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22:36:22  <frosch123> does twitter audience care?
22:36:26  <TrueBrain> I wonder when/if this will be picked up by news
22:36:31  <TrueBrain> sure, go for it
22:36:35  <Eddi|zuHause> we have a twitter audience?
22:36:37  <frosch123> which news?
22:36:48  <frosch123> dutch tv?
22:36:48  <TrueBrain> any
22:36:53  <TrueBrain> haha, no, not that :D
22:37:10  <TrueBrain> OpenTTD used to be a lot on, popular dutch site
22:37:18  <TrueBrain> always curious if/how fast news travels
22:37:36  <TrueBrain> but haven't seen 1.8 announcement .. so I guess the relation got a bit cold :)
22:37:56  <TrueBrain> owh, I just missed it
22:38:03  <GT> After last Gentoo emerge I cannot connect to any multiservers anymore, could it be because revision is 1.8.0-RC1 and not 1.8.0?
22:38:05  <frosch123> i wore the starcraft and factorio shirts at work, only one guy (different ones) recognised them
22:38:17  <TrueBrain> GT: spot on :)
22:38:25  <TrueBrain> frosch123: wuth?!
22:38:30  <Eddi|zuHause> GT: 1.8.0-RC1 is something very different from 1.8.0
22:38:31  <TrueBrain> you have the wrong type of work :)
22:38:33  <GT> Can I change that rev.
22:38:44  <TrueBrain> 1.8.0-RC1 is, as the name suggests, not the same as 1.8.0
22:38:46  <Eddi|zuHause> GT: only by installing the correct version
22:38:49  <TrueBrain> so changing the rev is not sufficient
22:38:55  <TrueBrain> you have to upgrade to 1.8.0
22:39:17  <TrueBrain> (RC stands for Release Candidate; it is not meant for public release)
22:39:23  <Eddi|zuHause> GT: we check for exact version match for a reason
22:40:02  <GT> Yes, but Gentoo portage does not offer that
22:40:09  <Eddi|zuHause> GT: because even tiny changes (probably) make it incompatible for multiplayer purposes
22:40:16  <TrueBrain> I guess your next visit will be to the Gentoo maintainer chat channel :)
22:40:31  <TrueBrain> (or you can try our generic binaries on the website!)
22:40:41  <TrueBrain> or, of course, compile it yourself... that is what emerge does anyway :D
22:42:07  <GT> Well, I have a parallel version that I svn up to to the nightlies, I suppose compiling 180 should not be more difficult
22:42:34  <frosch123> today is our twitter anniversary
22:42:38  <frosch123> who cares? :p
22:42:40  <TrueBrain> git clone && cd OpenTTD && git checkout release/1.8.0 && ./configure && make
22:42:42  <TrueBrain> or something
22:42:46  <TrueBrain> frosch123: PARTY!!!! :D
22:42:58  <TrueBrain> hmm, maybe better to pick the tag
22:43:03  <TrueBrain> git clone && cd OpenTTD && git checkout tags/1.8.0 && ./configure && make
22:43:19  <LordAro> should just be git checkout 1.8.0
22:43:36  <TrueBrain> testing .......
22:44:04  <TrueBrain> git clone && cd OpenTTD && git checkout 1.8.0 && ./configure && make
22:44:07  <TrueBrain> GT: ^^ :)
22:44:15  <ST2> git clone --branch 1.8.0
22:44:19  <ST2> is that the same?
22:44:31  <TrueBrain> try it out :)
22:44:43  <Eddi|zuHause> git is like "WAAAH YOU HAVE A DETACHED HEAD!!!"
22:44:49  <ST2> I've used it... only asking to confirm xD
22:44:58  <TrueBrain> doesnt that confirm it on its own :D :)
22:45:14  <ST2> check check
22:45:16  <TrueBrain> Eddi|zuHause: that is how I role .. with a detached head :D
22:45:17  <ST2> thx :)
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22:46:24  <Eddi|zuHause> hm, for the past ~whatever years my openttd complains that "weekly" is not a valid value for autosave... i should maybe fix that at some point? :p
22:46:54  <GT> Thanks TB, I'll manage to compile it. But it would not hurt to trigger Gentoo nontheless, seems they only provide test version anyway.
22:47:21  <TrueBrain> sadly we have little influence on what downstream maintainers do :(
22:48:19  <TrueBrain> indeed seems they often don't pick up our stables
22:48:21  <GT> I always have to package.accept_keywords it
22:50:07  <Eddi|zuHause> my openttd checkout names are weird... "cargodist" "cargodist-old" "cargodist-halfold"
22:50:35  <TrueBrain> right, off to bed; night!
22:52:22  <Eddi|zuHause> so, as far as i can tell, the weekly autosave is from a game i played in 2011
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22:53:04  <Eddi|zuHause> (using chillpp)
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23:03:10  *** GT has joined #openttd
23:04:17  *** GT has left #openttd
23:09:19  <frosch123> haha, this time twitter located my login to some 20k inhabitants-town even further away than the usual nuremberg
23:09:27  <frosch123> but at least i learn some geography that way
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