Log for #openttd on 17th April 2018:
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06:20:47  <peter1138> andythenorth, I found out why that group livery patch never got anywhere. It doesn't contain any UI.
06:23:58  <andythenorth> make it random
06:24:08  <andythenorth> :P
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06:27:43  <peter1138> Hah
06:29:31  <peter1138> Ooh I made it crash.
06:32:26  <andythenorth> probably don't ship it yet
06:35:30  <peter1138>
06:37:18  <peter1138> No checkbox!
06:47:12  <andythenorth> peter1138: so much better
06:47:32  <andythenorth> that's a nice grf too
06:47:56  <andythenorth> maybe grfs should be able to register liveries :P
06:48:03  <andythenorth> action 14 or so
06:48:30  <andythenorth> just a constant inside the grf, defining groups that colours can be applied to
06:48:47  <andythenorth> action 0 prop on the vehicle for the group
06:51:22  <andythenorth> then add a cb for it, and vehicles start changing against player wishes :P
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08:17:58  <andythenorth> Pikka o/
08:22:28  <andythenorth> such realistic RES livery
08:22:34  <andythenorth> but it's only 1CC
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08:50:11  <peter1138> Well, newgrfs can already override the player's colours.
08:50:37  <andythenorth> they can
08:50:40  <andythenorth> I don't
08:50:47  <peter1138> But anyway!
08:51:02  <andythenorth> less checkboxes
08:51:04  <peter1138> I need to figure out where to put the group livery selector.
08:51:19  <andythenorth> oops I crashed openttd again
08:51:30  <andythenorth> it really hates the grf changing on disk under it
08:51:57  <peter1138> The change above also has a side effect: you can change just one of the 2cc colours and the other can still follow the default colour.
08:52:03  <peter1138> Which I consider a bonus.
08:52:25  <Pikka> o/
08:53:03  <Pikka> such postal
08:54:22  <peter1138> Such what?
08:54:37  <Pikka> RES liveries
08:54:42  <peter1138> Such nice.
08:55:00  <peter1138> Should I split "freight" into steam/diesel/electric like the rest.
08:55:14  <andythenorth> peter1138: I thought about this sort of thing
08:55:18  <andythenorth> for 'where'
08:55:31  <peter1138> That's what I was thinking.
08:55:33  <andythenorth> the freight / mail / pax handling is just weird anyway
08:55:38  <andythenorth> I'd leave the split alone for now
08:55:45  <peter1138> It is.
08:55:49  <peter1138> Need an icon! Oh no!
08:55:54  <andythenorth> I'm hoping groups kind of replaces the split
08:56:03  <andythenorth> especially because sub-groups
08:56:18  <andythenorth> oh god, do the CC choices have acquisition from parent?
08:56:20  <peter1138> Well I don't think we'll strip it out, but yeah.
08:56:31  <peter1138> Hmm?
08:56:46  <andythenorth> if I have a nested group, are the defaults from the parent?
08:56:47  <peter1138> What do you mean?
08:56:49  <andythenorth> or global default?
08:57:13  <peter1138> Erm, it'll be from the standard livery schemes.
08:57:21  <andythenorth> ok no acquisition
08:57:38  <peter1138> So group -> livery scheme -> default.
08:57:47  <andythenorth> k
08:57:49  <andythenorth> simples
08:57:56  <peter1138> I didn't consider inheritance, probably didn't exist when I originally wrote the patch.
08:57:57  <andythenorth> isn't there a paint icon somewhere?
08:57:59  * andythenorth looks
08:58:29  <peter1138> Why does the ID icon miss the bottom row of the train?
08:59:28  <andythenorth> because obiwan paste
08:59:30  <andythenorth> I guess
08:59:34  <peter1138> :S
08:59:35  <andythenorth> PR :P
09:00:09  <peter1138> Go for it.
09:00:39  <andythenorth> looking for paint palette currently
09:00:53  <peter1138> 16 colour palette :D
09:01:56  <peter1138> < Use the !Paint icon! ;)
09:02:44  <andythenorth> kind of had that in mind
09:03:16  <andythenorth> with or without the vehicle type included?
09:08:51  <peter1138>
09:08:55  <peter1138> There's always that palette ;)
09:09:07  <peter1138> I guess with matches, but then you need lots of icons for no reason?
09:09:17  <andythenorth> v2 :P
09:09:20  <peter1138> Why isn't it just an overlay?
09:09:43  <andythenorth> we need icon composition :P
09:10:19  <peter1138>
09:10:21  <peter1138> Mmm
09:17:38  <andythenorth> peter1138:
09:17:41  <andythenorth> 178
09:17:47  <andythenorth> it's bad, but something to work with
09:18:02  <andythenorth> A3000!
09:18:10  <andythenorth> and it's RAM chips that worked loose
09:18:14  <andythenorth> its *
09:18:41  <peter1138> Why is 177 overflowing?
09:18:46  <andythenorth> dunno
09:18:50  <andythenorth> in retrospect pling[name] was weird about RISC OS
09:19:03  <andythenorth> do you really need to know it's executable that way? :P
09:19:15  <peter1138> :D
09:19:23  <andythenorth> looks like ! to me
09:19:30  <andythenorth> "not Boot"
09:19:34  <peter1138> 124-127 are all misaligned...
09:19:39  <peter1138> Should be easy to fix.
09:20:00  <peter1138> Move each up a line and steal the bottom row from the others.
09:20:10  <andythenorth> yup
09:20:23  <peter1138> I can do that!
09:20:26  <andythenorth> biab, jobs
09:20:31  <peter1138> Yeah, indeed.
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09:58:57  <peter1138> Simutrans has underground and elevated lines? Hmm...
09:59:59  * peter1138 ponders a large-scale game mode.
10:00:44  <peter1138> pax production reduced, town radii increased, station capture area increased
10:02:22  <FLHerne> Other than the capture area, that just sounds like normal late-game OTTD :P
10:04:27  <peter1138> Yeah, most of that might be possible with just newgrfs.
10:05:05  <peter1138> Actually pikka had a town grf that increased sprawl and reduced population.
10:05:14  <peter1138> The scrabble one :D
10:06:16  <FLHerne> Mine went from to
10:06:24  <FLHerne> And yes, I use that :-)
10:07:26  <FLHerne> It's grown a whole metro network in the last picture, but hard to see
10:08:13  <FLHerne> Like this
10:08:41  <FLHerne> Actually, I think that was with JGRPP's passenger-growth-multiplier set to negative, too
10:08:50  <FLHerne> Otherwise it just becomes totally unmanageable
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13:32:46  <andythenorth> but
13:35:34  <peter1138> No buts!
13:41:42  <Eddi|zuHause> no butts?
13:42:17  <V453000> ass
13:44:11  <andythenorth> putting forums people on ignore is confusing
13:44:24  <andythenorth> then I see one side of the arguments they inevitably cause
13:44:29  <andythenorth> and have no idea what started it :P
13:45:57  <V453000> :D
13:46:39  <peter1138> Oh?
13:46:40  <V453000> so today I had a look, it seems that after 6 months of releasing BRIX 0.0.2 I have 5 replies in the tt-forum thread.
13:46:44  <V453000> Do people give a fuck? :D
13:47:36  <andythenorth> I do
13:47:45  <andythenorth> but no need to talk in forums all day about it
13:48:03  <V453000> point
13:48:05  <andythenorth> mostly when I release a grf I get...crickets
13:48:39  <andythenorth> if it was a grf of realistic vehicles in realistic liveries
13:48:42  <andythenorth> not quite well drawn
13:48:47  <andythenorth> and lacking any gameplay balance
13:48:54  <andythenorth> then I would get 47 bazillion replies
13:48:58  <andythenorth> and a medal
13:49:37  <V453000> yes :)
13:49:51  <andythenorth> e.g. original HEQS :P
13:49:55  <andythenorth> such many pages of love
13:50:04  <andythenorth> Road crickets
13:50:18  <Eddi|zuHause> <andythenorth> putting forums people on ignore is confusing <-- yeah, it's pretty pointless
13:50:52  <andythenorth> I'll just wait it out until someone cracks and tells acs121 to stop doing it
13:51:06  <V453000> XD
13:51:10  <Eddi|zuHause> V453000: you only hear from people when things go wrong
13:51:26  <andythenorth> ^ truism
13:51:27  <V453000> haha :D another way to look at it
13:53:33  <V453000> so I make worst train set ever, people lose their shit?
13:53:42  <andythenorth> only if realism
13:53:42  <V453000> iz plan?
13:53:45  <V453000> oh
13:53:53  <andythenorth> do poll 'what is your favourite train'
13:53:56  <andythenorth> profit
13:54:17  <andythenorth> I have idea btw
13:54:51  <V453000> wot idea
13:55:21  <andythenorth> so I've been doing this
13:55:34  <andythenorth> vehicle has 2 liveries, and swaps if flipped in depot
13:55:52  <andythenorth> but also....seems CC is exposed as to grfs as a var...
13:56:03  <andythenorth> so I could do 32 liveries per vehicle :P
13:56:10  <andythenorth> and they change according to CC setting
13:56:12  <V453000> :0
13:56:30  <andythenorth> or if it's combinatorial, 512 liveries
13:56:35  <andythenorth> is that enough? o_O
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13:56:44  <V453000> ah so if you ctrl+clikc the vehicle in the depot, it changes livery?
13:57:12  <andythenorth> yes
13:57:19  <andythenorth> doesn't work for articulated :P
13:57:47  <V453000> I guess. :D
13:57:54  <V453000> but yeah, that's a nice idea
13:58:12  <andythenorth> might be terrible :P
13:59:39  <andythenorth> it could have really complicated instructions
13:59:57  <peter1138> Well, 16*16 is 256, not 512. But.
13:59:59  <andythenorth> to get livery xx set CC1 red and CC2 cream, then flip the vehicle and attach to engine A
14:00:02  <peter1138> Still enough.
14:00:10  <andythenorth> peter1138: 2x liveries, using flip
14:00:12  <peter1138> Oh, you include flipping.
14:00:14  <V453000> ._.
14:00:16  <peter1138> Urgh.
14:00:22  <andythenorth> also engine-specific liveries :P
14:00:30  <peter1138> Definitely file this under BAD FEATURE.
14:00:42  <andythenorth> and soon...per group option :P
14:00:45  <peter1138> You know we have 65k vehicle slots now...
14:00:50  <andythenorth> this is what BROS is for right?
14:00:52  <andythenorth> or BORTS
14:00:54  <peter1138> Just make each livery a separate vehicle :D
14:00:57  <andythenorth> or whatever it's called now
14:01:05  <peter1138> s/vehicle/vehicle type/
14:01:16  <peter1138> Whatever the nomenclature is.
14:01:21  <andythenorth> thing
14:01:55  <andythenorth> V453000:  we need an icon btw
14:02:02  <V453000> ?
14:02:53  <andythenorth> icon for changing CC per vehicle group
14:03:14  <andythenorth> I did a temporary one here
14:03:25  <V453000> WTF is this
14:03:28  <V453000> :D
14:03:29  <andythenorth> or 178 here
14:03:32  <V453000> oh CC per vehicle group
14:03:34  <V453000> ooooooooo
14:03:35  <andythenorth> yeah
14:03:42  <andythenorth> super for coop play
14:03:57  <V453000> 178 looks decent?
14:04:10  <andythenorth> quite bad
14:04:21  <andythenorth> I didn't try arranging colours nicely, just started in top left
14:04:37  <andythenorth> needs some kind of dither fade on it too
14:05:04  <peter1138> andythenorth wants groups to have a use.
14:05:10  <andythenorth>
14:05:16  <peter1138> Never mind organising vehicles and routes, it's just about colours ;-)
14:05:18  <andythenorth> dithered
14:05:25  <andythenorth> it's mostly about auto-replace TBH
14:05:58  <V453000> colouring trains per group is super awesome
14:06:02  <peter1138> Should be some order handling as well, isn't there?
14:06:03  <V453000> +666
14:06:16  <V453000> well you can add trains with shared orders to the group
14:06:16  <peter1138> < tweaked livery UI
14:06:34  <peter1138> I'd like "set all vehicles to the same shared order list"
14:06:34  <andythenorth> peter1138 you can make a group from shared orders if you know the magic key modifier
14:06:35  <V453000> what's different? checkboxes missing?
14:06:46  <andythenorth> but you can't make a group from vehicles at a station
14:06:52  <andythenorth> which would be useful often
14:07:03  <V453000> ^
14:07:10  <V453000> that would be quite nice too
14:08:11  <peter1138> "Put ungrouped vehicles in this list into a group" sort thing
14:08:12  <andythenorth> this might be better with 'make group' too
14:08:18  <peter1138> ctrl-click -> -ungrouped
14:08:46  <andythenorth> I guess then the group GUI has to be opened and selected and stuff
14:08:48  <andythenorth> or not
14:08:56  <andythenorth> how to name the group, etc
14:08:58  <andythenorth> faff
14:09:03  <peter1138> Groups have a default name.
14:09:20  <peter1138> A shitty one, but it's something.
14:09:30  <andythenorth> 'new group'
14:09:33  <andythenorth> or 'add to group'
14:09:33  <andythenorth> ?
14:09:35  <andythenorth> or both?
14:09:37  <andythenorth> too much UI :P
14:09:50  <peter1138> Well
14:10:02  <peter1138> Let's do none of it. It's too much UI.
14:10:19  <peter1138> V453000, yeah, no checkboxes, "default" option in drop down list instead.
14:10:37  <andythenorth> total winner
14:10:49  <V453000> default = colour of company I guess
14:10:55  <peter1138> yes, could be better wording.
14:11:10  <V453000> sense makes it
14:11:13  <V453000> like I
14:11:15  <peter1138> "Company primary colour" is a bit long :p
14:11:18  <V453000> yeah
14:11:24  <peter1138> could be "inherit"
14:11:29  <V453000> CC1 CC2
14:11:37  <V453000> see wiki for explanation
14:11:39  <V453000> :D
14:11:50  <V453000> Default sounds ok
14:11:56  <andythenorth> damn you V453000
14:12:04  <andythenorth> I am playing synthwave again
14:12:12  <V453000> :d
14:12:18  <andythenorth> so melodic
14:12:21  <andythenorth> very chords
14:13:26  <peter1138> Ah, purple and cyan. Very CGA colour-scheme.
14:13:34  <andythenorth> seems nice
14:13:41  <andythenorth> many fine BBC games used those colours
14:13:57  <peter1138>
14:14:43  <peter1138> Hmm, group liveries and... rgb colours :p
14:14:44  <andythenorth> ah pengo
14:15:28  <andythenorth> check out the opening screen, most awesome graphics for time
14:15:29  <andythenorth>
14:15:34  <andythenorth> ah the author posted on YT too
14:15:39  <peter1138> Pengo on the PC used the other scheme, red, green and yellow.
14:15:54  <andythenorth> that ice crack animation is amazing
14:15:58  <peter1138> Yeah
14:16:06  <peter1138> That's not an animation, it's just drawing it.
14:16:18  <andythenorth> dunnio
14:16:24  <andythenorth> it's a moving drawing :P
14:16:33  <andythenorth> I see your point :P
14:16:48  <andythenorth> "All the code was written in 6502 assembler. If I left the code for more than a week than I couldn't understand what I'd written and had to start again. Several games got abandoned like that."
14:16:50  <andythenorth> funny
14:17:28  <andythenorth> paperboy, classic limited colours
14:17:29  <peter1138> :D
14:17:42  <andythenorth> "I had a patch for that"
14:17:46  <andythenorth> "in 6502 assembler"
14:17:47  <peter1138> AndyWilliams aye
14:18:01  <peter1138> Airwolf
14:18:21  <andythenorth> hmm
14:18:46  <andythenorth> at work we have "I fixed it, but in my python egg cache"
14:18:49  <andythenorth> which is same thing
14:20:24  <peter1138>
14:21:36  <andythenorth> classic
14:21:41  <andythenorth> such company colours
14:23:02  <andythenorth> bbls
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14:26:21  <Alberth> o/
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14:52:30  <Alberth> o/
14:54:22  <andythenorth> hi Alberth
14:54:25  <andythenorth> Pikka bob
14:54:26  <Pikka> o/
14:55:28  <andythenorth> Pikka: train 89 has CCTs in it
14:55:43  <andythenorth> should I do fake ones for 1990 and 2020?
14:55:49  <andythenorth> IRL not a thing
14:56:57  <Pikka> hmmm
14:57:09  <Pikka> maybe? or just leave the old ones to continue on?
14:57:47  <andythenorth> maybe
15:00:45  <andythenorth> let's see
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15:07:45  <andythenorth> hmm
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15:26:04  <andythenorth> ` or something
15:28:05  <andythenorth> bbl
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15:58:57  <peter1138> Who are these people who worry about what their company manager face looks like?
15:59:11  <peter1138> If it's tedius to setup, why bother... :p
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16:03:44  <Eddi|zuHause> didn't we have a company preset patch once?
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16:27:48  <peter1138> So... evening.
16:40:39  <peter1138> Hmm, bin/baseset is ignored in .gitignore, but openttd.grf within it is showing as modified.
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16:41:51  <peter1138> As a dev, do I have to do a PR or can I just commit to master?
16:42:19  <glx> PR
16:44:08  <LordAro> peter1138: i imagine you *can* commit to master
16:44:16  <LordAro> but TrueBrain will shout at you
16:44:34  <glx> I think the commits are rejected
16:44:56  <LordAro> well translators can commit directly, and i don't think github lets you restrict it per user..
16:45:32  <glx> translators is a special case
16:45:35  <peter1138> Lack of granular authorisation is a bit weird.
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16:49:20  <peter1138> Icon 177 is a bit suspicious. Some kind of parcel poking out the side of it.
16:58:26  <peter1138> s/Icon/Sprite/
16:59:01  <peter1138> This jenkins is so slow :p
16:59:30  <peter1138> Yay, passed. Obviously, there was no code change.
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17:06:29  <glx> reviewing bin changes is less easy than reviewing a diff :)
17:07:36  <peter1138> Aye, especially before I edited the comment to say which sprites had changed!
17:07:56  <glx> yes it helped :)
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17:14:16  <Wolf01> o/
17:14:35  <peter1138> Hmm, TrueBrain does something to get the PR number in the commit.
17:18:02  <TrueBrain> Squash :)
17:18:32  <TrueBrain> LordAro: you are wrong btw :)
17:18:35  <glx> ha yes squash adds the number, rebase doesn't
17:20:02  <peter1138> TrueBrain, about which bit?
17:20:19  <TrueBrain> [18:44] <LordAro> well translators can commit directly, and i don't think github lets you restrict it per user..
17:20:24  <TrueBrain> it is a lie :)
17:20:36  <glx> translators is not a real user ;)
17:20:42  <TrueBrain> that is a lie too :)
17:20:54  <glx> not even a member of the organisation
17:20:54  <TrueBrain> DorpsGek has a full account; and he pushes the commit
17:21:13  <TrueBrain> (in git, you can push anything; you can fill a PR with random names, and if you accept it, that is in git; the name in git is meaningless)
17:21:20  <glx> but indeed owners have all rights
17:21:32  <TrueBrain> all restrictions in GitHub are not per git author or anything
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17:25:44  <peter1138> TrueBrain, but he's right about the shouting at us? :p
17:26:24  <TrueBrain> peter1138: you cannot push directly to master
17:26:28  <TrueBrain> you have to go through a PR
17:26:46  <TrueBrain> so there is no need for any shouting :)
17:26:50  <peter1138> Aww
17:27:39  <peter1138> How's it going with the nightlies?
17:28:07  <TrueBrain> people keep bugging me :P
17:28:25  <peter1138> Meanies.
17:28:53  <peter1138> I'm not bugging, just asking!
17:29:34  <peter1138> Bah, annoying that mouse-warp doesn't work in a Hyper-V VM :(
17:29:45  <TrueBrain> closing tickets that wont be implemented any time soon anywayyyyyyyy
17:29:57  <TrueBrain> and now I have to install a new Docker slave :)
17:31:10  <peter1138> Maybe I should have a native Linux machine instead.
17:33:06  <TrueBrain> and I should pick up Ansible ..
17:33:25  <TrueBrain> peter1138: did you check #6726 ?
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17:33:52  <peter1138> Yes, seems to do what it says on the tin.
17:34:24  <TrueBrain> so time to learn yourself how to squash a commit? :D
17:34:31  <peter1138>
17:34:51  <peter1138> So it is apparently not supported but seems to work :p
17:35:08  <TrueBrain> :)
17:35:22  <TrueBrain> unexpected features :D
17:36:10  <peter1138> Squash and merge eh?
17:36:25  <TrueBrain> or rebase
17:36:27  <TrueBrain> depends on who you ask here :)
17:37:57  <peter1138> Well, it contains edits, logically if it was a standalone patch we'd only apply the end result.
17:38:21  <TrueBrain> I think squash is best here
17:38:26  <TrueBrain> as I dont care about 2 commits in master :)
17:42:18  <TrueBrain> gratz!
17:42:20  <peter1138> str... ...ings YEAH.
17:51:50  <peter1138> Pull requests: 0
17:52:39  <LordAro> wow, project so dead
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17:54:14  <TrueBrain> and only 234 tickets, pfft
17:54:28  <TrueBrain> and new tickets are immediatly closed with: sure, show us a PR!
17:54:42  <TrueBrain> they want ME TO DO ALL THE WORK
17:54:50  <peter1138> :D
17:55:01  <_dp_> cool, time to add another PR xD
17:55:07  <TrueBrain> you go girl!
17:57:04  <peter1138> Having a i7 8700K certainly makes compilation less painful.
17:57:37  * peter1138 times a make clean, make
17:58:15  <TrueBrain> recent ... 2012 ... (BSD and SVN move)
17:58:17  <peter1138> 40 seconds, seems ok.
17:58:32  <peter1138> TrueBrain, ah, I didn't check the facts. Fake news!
17:58:43  <TrueBrain> he posted a new link
17:58:45  <TrueBrain> in which it says 2012 ..
18:00:52  <Maarten> is autopilot still the preferred way of adding custom !commands to a server, or are there other methods these days?
18:04:08  <frosch123> noone uses autopilot
18:04:24  <frosch123> coop uses soap, other people use other stuff
18:07:20  <frosch123> TrueBrain: openbsd is in cvs, with github mirror
18:08:34  <frosch123> but yes, it's weird that someone would pickup svn in 2012
18:11:38  <TrueBrain> its weird to post about it in 2018 :P
18:16:27  <peter1138> I wonder which patch pack has the most comprehensive savegame system.
18:16:36  <TrueBrain> JGR
18:16:43  <peter1138> That's the one I saw, yeah.
18:19:25  <peter1138> Hmm, --enable-debug=3 causes gdb to hang on start up :S
18:19:52  <frosch123> yes, it takes some time since some version
18:20:01  <peter1138> Hmm.
18:20:09  <frosch123> i wasn't aware that it only happens with =3
18:20:19  <peter1138> Trying with 2.
18:20:31  <frosch123> i thought it was busy scanning /usr/include or something
18:20:34  <peter1138> It's fine with 2.
18:21:31  <frosch123> for me it started with stretch, it did not happen in jessie
18:23:12  <LordAro> works fine on arch
18:23:40  <LordAro> oh, you mean when running, don't you?
18:23:45  <LordAro> that hangs
18:23:54  <TrueBrain> lol
18:24:10  <TrueBrain> no no, we are fine, no no, there is no burning house here. Owh, you mean that house with fire coming out of it? Yeah, we screwed :)
18:24:29  <LordAro> well, i figured it did /usr/include scanning on startup
18:25:08  <TrueBrain> wow, compiling OSX is a lot faster on this new box where there isnt a cryptominer running ..... :@
18:25:50  <LordAro> funny that
18:26:20  <LordAro> strace shows last entry "read(15, "7ELF\...."
18:26:36  <TrueBrain> so what is on fd 15?
18:26:44  <LordAro> good question
18:26:54  <LordAro> probably ottd
18:26:55  <LordAro> there it goes
18:27:00  <LordAro> just took a while to read in the binary?
18:31:06  <frosch123> i did not figure out what it was doing, i got used to it :p
18:31:35  <LordAro> it is a 104MB binary
18:31:41  <LordAro> which is a bit silly
18:31:59  <frosch123> it was always that big
18:32:09  <peter1138> Eh, not always :)
18:32:13  <frosch123> maybe older gdb did not read everything on start
18:32:24  <frosch123> peter1138: since 0.5 is always
18:34:01  <peter1138> Took about a minute to start.
18:34:10  <peter1138> And my PC is not slow :(
18:34:19  <frosch123> that's the tar scanning
18:34:26  <frosch123> it's faster the second time when stuff is in cache
18:34:34  <frosch123> also, non-debug build is way faster
18:35:03  <frosch123> find a way to always optimise md5sum.cpp :p
18:35:17  <peter1138> Hmm, I've got 4 tars.
18:35:35  <frosch123> newer gcc have attributes to toggle optimisation within sources
18:35:39  <peter1138> 6 grfs include the baseset.
18:36:28  <frosch123> hmm, actually md5sum is only used in the newgrf scan, still tar scan takes ages for unknown reason
18:36:32  <peter1138> Well, at least my position is correct now, not jumping all over the place.
18:46:50  <V453000> working with x1 is so cute after fucking with x4 for years
18:46:52  <V453000> ._.
18:50:32  <Wolf01> Hello V
18:55:07  <peter1138> What's a reasonable AI for just testing stuff?
18:56:13  <Wolf01> You should ask samu
18:57:04  <frosch123> simpleai probably
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19:22:40  <peter1138> ta
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19:34:06  <TrueBrain> meh; the 10.13 is hard to cross compile
19:34:11  <TrueBrain> osxcross hasnt really been updated in a year or so
19:34:16  <TrueBrain> so it is a bit .. annoying :D
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19:36:05  <andythenorth>  o/
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19:36:16  <frosch123> would you recommend storing files as blobs in postgres, or only storing keys to find raw files on disk?
19:37:19  <frosch123> hmm, probably files on disk are easier for running tool subprocesses and mirroring and stuff
19:37:21  <TrueBrain> never store files in databases, if you dont want to do anything with them except storing :)
19:37:30  <TrueBrain> for that we already have a database .. we call it a filesystem :)
19:37:48  * andythenorth has fear of blobstorage
19:37:48  <TrueBrain> it is the easiest way to keep your database :)
19:37:57  <TrueBrain> if you write BLOB, you are doing it wrong :)
19:38:10  <TrueBrain> so yeah frosch123 .. normally you reference them from the database :)
19:38:14  <TrueBrain> even more if they are immutable
19:38:38  <TrueBrain> personally I tempt to store them based on id of the database, so you get a folder like 1/0/0/10010.tar
19:38:48  <TrueBrain> (100 files per folder)
19:38:58  <TrueBrain> git does it in hex, with 2 char per directory I think
19:39:10  <TrueBrain> (this is just to not kill your filesystem with 100000 files in a folder :D)
19:42:17  <_dp_> just don't run out of inodes ;)
19:44:24  <andythenorth> one day, everything will be better
19:44:50  <frosch123> sounds religious
19:45:43  <TrueBrain> okay, it seems that 10.12 might work, where 10.13 most likely wont ..
19:45:53  <andythenorth> 10.13 is the plague
19:45:57  <TrueBrain> why?
19:46:02  <andythenorth> you can log in as 'root' and no password
19:46:16  <andythenorth> and it has cursor artefacts in openttd
19:46:24  <andythenorth> child #1 has 10.13
19:46:27  <andythenorth> I have 10.12
19:46:34  <TrueBrain> I was hoping to use the 10.13 SDK to compile
19:46:41  <TrueBrain> as that gives broader support
19:46:48  <andythenorth> it's "probably fine"
19:47:01  <andythenorth> I don't know what SDK I'm linked against when I compile
19:47:12  <andythenorth> but I keep XCode up to date
19:47:49  <TrueBrain> 10.12 will work
19:47:55  <TrueBrain> but in my experience it is better to have newer
19:49:43  <TrueBrain> so okay, downloading XCode 8.3.3 .. ugh
19:50:04  <andythenorth> yay peter fixed the icons
19:50:07  <andythenorth> thanks
19:50:16  <peter1138> To be contrary, I have some files stored in pgsql.
19:53:03  <peter1138> However it is quite a specific environment.
19:55:13  <frosch123> yes, at work they are stored as blob, so you can transfer the database and have everything
19:57:23  <TrueBrain> hmm, from my understanding, 10.12 doesnt support x17, 10.13 does
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20:03:08  <TrueBrain> I wish extracting xcode was faster .. meant I would have looked through the other variants to see when they switched to v3 of tbd ..
20:03:31  <andythenorth> need help? o_O
20:04:05  <andythenorth> although...I have been drinking :P
20:04:39  <TrueBrain> first reports about this i see are from this month
20:04:48  <TrueBrain> and there was a new xcode end of last month
20:04:54  <TrueBrain> so POSSIBLY they changed something there :P
20:06:41  <TrueBrain> andythenorth: I want to know the first line of the libSystem.B.tbd in Xcode xip files :D
20:07:25  *** agentw4b has joined #openttd
20:07:37  * andythenorth googles how to find that
20:08:49  <TrueBrain> no worries :)
20:08:57  <TrueBrain> 8.3.3 is v2, 9.3 is v3
20:09:03  <TrueBrain> just 3 more versions to check :)
20:09:07  <andythenorth>
20:09:25  <TrueBrain> which XCode?
20:09:51  <andythenorth> Version 9.2 (9C40b)
20:09:57  <TrueBrain> that is good news
20:10:01  <TrueBrain> extracting that as we speak :)
20:10:09  <andythenorth> want me to rent us a mac?
20:10:14  <TrueBrain> nope
20:10:16  <andythenorth> k
20:10:26  <andythenorth> easy not to
20:10:31  <andythenorth> zero effort
20:10:36  <TrueBrain> possibly I should upgrade my clang :)
20:10:44  <TrueBrain> just no clue which version OSX is running
20:10:55  <TrueBrain> couldnt match their version :)
20:11:11  <glx> <TrueBrain> so POSSIBLY they changed something there :P <-- they always change something
20:11:25  <TrueBrain> just didnt expect such a change from 9.2 to 9.3 in xcode
20:11:28  <TrueBrain> both are 10.13
20:12:16  <andythenorth> apple is currently clown shoes
20:12:23  <andythenorth> except where they're awesome
20:12:27  <andythenorth> it's very hit and miss
20:12:40  <andythenorth> the awesome is really awesome, and the bad is so bad
20:13:21  <TrueBrain> okay, confirmed Xcode 9.2 should work
20:13:48  <andythenorth> soon macs will need to start playing 'keep the faith' at startup, like they used to in 1994
20:17:18  <TrueBrain> okay, this at least explains the reports that people had it working on 10,13 :D
20:20:38  <LordAro> 10.13 (assuming that's High Sierra) apparently managed to entirely break their authentication backend in various separate ways
20:20:53  <_dp_> pff, github doesn't allow attaching bz2 archives :/
20:21:51  <andythenorth> github bans .diff and .patch too
20:21:53  <andythenorth> weird
20:22:02  <TrueBrain> yeah, still something we have to solve
20:22:05  <TrueBrain> also for crash.dmps
20:22:14  <TrueBrain> I still consider a way to upload it from the client directly
20:22:17  <TrueBrain> in the crash dialog :)
20:23:00  <andythenorth> hmm
20:23:11  <andythenorth> should I remove all articulated vehicles from Horse?
20:23:17  <andythenorth> to allow livery flipping?
20:23:54  <andythenorth> [articulated vehicles can't be flipped for....reasons]
20:23:55  <TrueBrain> I seriously have no clue what you just said :D That is awesome :D
20:24:08  <andythenorth> TrueBrain: how many years since you played ottd? o_O
20:24:12  <TrueBrain> the individual words arent the issue .. but the sentences in total ... like you talk a different language to me :D
20:24:22  <TrueBrain> I never touched NewGRFs :)
20:24:26  <andythenorth> innit
20:24:33  <andythenorth> whole world
20:25:00  <andythenorth> peter1138: so when can I test a livery branch in your fork? :D
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20:26:29  <frosch123> TrueBrain: andy joined the folks of abusing the spec in ways never intended or even imagined. usual grf stuff :)
20:26:48  <TrueBrain> I would like to act surprised
20:26:49  <TrueBrain> but really
20:26:51  <TrueBrain> I am not
20:26:52  <TrueBrain> :D
20:27:17  <andythenorth> cows
20:27:20  <andythenorth> jumping
20:27:43  <andythenorth> oh and 2 clicks away me
20:27:52  <andythenorth> sometimes the internet is fun
20:28:24  <andythenorth> I play a game 'how far from a news story to one of our customers'
20:28:30  * andythenorth digressing
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20:30:27  <andythenorth> frosch123: think we could flip articulated consists in depot? o_O
20:31:11  <_dp_> ok, let's continue with this one :)
20:31:13  <frosch123> how about mousewheel to rotate subtypes? :p
20:32:16  <andythenorth> frosch123: not a bad idea :P
20:32:40  <andythenorth> flipping articulated means steam engines could run backwards
20:32:42  <andythenorth> it's legit :)
20:33:17  <TrueBrain> right .. 10.13 is running again ...
20:33:25  <andythenorth>
20:35:33  <andythenorth> even big ones
20:35:54  <TrueBrain> _dp_: script_client.hpp, has a doxygen comment c1, c2 and c3
20:36:00  <TrueBrain> that .... is  .. a bit weird :D
20:37:41  <_dp_> TrueBrain, hm, yeah, probably copied from somewhere else xD
20:37:58  <TrueBrain> :D
20:39:58  <frosch123> andythenorth:
20:42:05  <TrueBrain> okay ... PROGRESS! Compiler-rt is building .... *shocked*
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20:44:58  <TrueBrain> so now which OSX to target ... CHOICES!
20:47:11  *** frosch123 has quit IRC
20:48:13  <andythenorth> what has frosch sent me? o_O
20:48:30  <TrueBrain> a unicorn?
20:48:35  <andythenorth> dunno
20:48:35  <LordAro> TrueBrain: all of them!
20:48:46  <TrueBrain> okay, macports is running ...
20:48:48  <TrueBrain> and macports finished
20:48:49  <andythenorth> :o
20:49:46  <TrueBrain> now to test it .. euuuhhhhhh
20:49:53  <andythenorth> send it to me :P
20:50:02  <TrueBrain> no, first need to compile OpenTTD now :)
20:50:06  <_dp_> TrueBrain, fixed :)
20:50:17  <andythenorth> TrueBrain: have you added the coin miner? :|
20:50:23  <TrueBrain> it is back, yes
20:50:37  <andythenorth> I am short of battery, so you won't get many coins
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20:54:49  <TrueBrain> okay ... it is compiling OpenTTD ..
20:54:51  <TrueBrain> with clang even
20:54:57  <TrueBrain> (as I kinda didnt want to install gcc)
20:55:05  <TrueBrain> just wish it auto-detected clang
20:55:10  * TrueBrain looks at LordAro
20:55:43  <LordAro> fixing it properly involves making an already bad function worse
20:55:47  <LordAro> s/properly//
20:55:57  <TrueBrain> so we need to find out if cmake is an option :D
20:56:17  <TrueBrain> okay, lets see if it wants to link ...
20:56:18  <LordAro> fixing it properly is a bit more involved
20:56:23  <LordAro> TrueBrain: eh, i still dunno
20:56:26  <TrueBrain> do we want to support 32bit on OSX?
20:56:44  <TrueBrain> the SDK does contain everything for it
20:56:47  <TrueBrain> but feels like a waste
20:57:26  <andythenorth> I wouldn't
20:57:35  <andythenorth> Apple will kill 32 bit soon
20:57:37  <andythenorth> forcibly
20:58:07  <TrueBrain> okay, errors ..
20:58:13  <TrueBrain> unknown property attribute 'class'
20:58:30  <TrueBrain> NSCharacterSet.h
20:58:42  <TrueBrain> always nice if their own header files fail to compile ...
20:59:57  <andythenorth> oh god I broke everything
21:00:12  <andythenorth> but some users, track record suggests PEBKAC
21:00:41  <andythenorth> 25.9MB save :o
21:01:03  <andythenorth> wtf
21:01:09  <andythenorth> mine are 300KB or so
21:01:17  <andythenorth> has he crafted me a malware?
21:02:27  <andythenorth> hth is this page spawning when chrome has it blocked? :P
21:04:42  <TrueBrain> okay, seems my clang is too old for this crap
21:06:26  <TrueBrain> Obj-C had some additions in 2016
21:06:34  <TrueBrain> so lets try a newer clang I guess
21:06:43  <TrueBrain> debian:sid it is! :)
21:07:02  <LordAro> aaahh
21:09:00  <TrueBrain> 4.7 on sid .. not 6.0 or even 5.0
21:09:05  <TrueBrain> but lets try it :)
21:09:49  <TrueBrain> euh, 4.0
21:09:51  <TrueBrain> lol
21:11:06  <LordAro> is there no llvm ppa/repo you can add?
21:11:17  <LordAro> actually, you're using docker instances, is there not one of those?
21:11:43  <TrueBrain> possibly
21:11:48  <TrueBrain> I try to stick to debian slim images where possible
21:12:05  <TrueBrain> hmm .. it fails to find .. lol
21:12:23  <michi_cc> TrueBrain: The full C++11 OSX libc++ starts with 10.9 I think (10.7/8 are apparently missing something), so I'd chose 10.9 as the min macosx version.
21:12:43  <TrueBrain> thank you :)
21:12:44  <michi_cc> Still using the 10.12 (or 10.13 SDK).
21:12:55  <TrueBrain> ofc
21:13:30  <TrueBrain> okay, why am I missing this so file .. and why can I not install it :@
21:13:48  <michi_cc> After the latest patch round, current (non-C++11 OTTD) will compile and run fine with a clang/min 10.7 build.
21:14:37  <TrueBrain> okay, this is very weird .... I have liblzo2-2 install
21:14:42  <TrueBrain> but I have a .a file instead of a .so
21:14:46  <TrueBrain> I have to reinstall it to get it
21:14:53  <TrueBrain> I tihnk the debian:sid-slim is not fully correct :D
21:15:00  <michi_cc> Missing for host or target? Because if your end result depends on a .so, you'll not find many takers :)
21:15:24  <TrueBrain> host
21:15:35  <TrueBrain> really a debian:sid issue
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21:17:40  <TrueBrain> not even a clue where the .a came from .. lol
21:17:54  <peter1138> Hmm, so bootstrap 4 is not compatible with bootstrap 3.
21:19:06  <andythenorth> if we mean the UI framework, then it can be upgraded
21:19:14  <andythenorth> if we mean one of the many other bootstraps, dunno :P
21:19:43  <andythenorth> bootstrap major versions historically aren't compatible
21:20:26  <peter1138> _dp_, imagine the fun with a trolling multiplayer GSViewport.ScrollTo :D
21:21:18  <peter1138> andythenorth, yeah... fortunately my v3 version was a WIP, so now it's just a v4 WIP.
21:21:25  <_dp_> peter1138, servers can have so much fun already, one more function doesn't matter :p
21:21:35  <andythenorth> afaik 3 to 4 is easier than 2 to 3
21:21:43  <andythenorth> I've done 2 to 3 multiple times
21:22:04  <peter1138> Well, my nav bar was gone.
21:22:17  <peter1138> btn-xs gone
21:22:22  <peter1138> table-condensed...
21:22:56  <andythenorth> there's usually a migration guide in bootstrap docs
21:23:03  <andythenorth> I didn't look because it's flexbox native
21:23:09  <andythenorth> and I have to support IE so eh
21:23:13  <LordAro> F
21:23:40  <TrueBrain> clang-6 is in stretch:backports .. that might be worth it I guess
21:24:18  <peter1138> _dp_, style-wise looks fine, but I know nothing about squirrel nor gamescripts.
21:25:27  <peter1138> Hmm, what magic generated that? heh
21:25:44  <andythenorth> sounds like something in my newgrfs :P
21:25:44  <glx> some .in :)
21:25:48  <andythenorth> I have a few of those
21:26:16  <_dp_> peter1138, src/script/api/
21:26:24  <peter1138> See, proper magic.
21:26:44  * LordAro wonders if that can be done with template magic instead
21:26:51  <peter1138> I see it carefully generates the pointless /* $Id$ */ comments...
21:27:42  <TrueBrain> lot of warnings with clang 4 :)
21:27:51  <TrueBrain> well, 1, over and over
21:27:55  <TrueBrain> smallstack something
21:28:05  <LordAro> TrueBrain: that's the clang warning i mentioned :)
21:28:07  <TrueBrain> around the lock
21:28:17  <TrueBrain> so why isnt there a fix yet?! :P
21:28:45  <LordAro> ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
21:29:21  <TrueBrain> lol
21:29:26  <TrueBrain> but I see why you want a compiler-farm
21:29:35  <TrueBrain> with a lot of different compilers telling you where we fucked up :)
21:29:53  <LordAro> :)
21:30:09  <TrueBrain> you do need to state which you want to support first, ofc, but meh :)
21:30:23  <TrueBrain> okay, tomorrow going to try debian:stretch with backports, as I dont like what I am seeing here :D
21:30:30  <TrueBrain> but it is compiling the OSX binary again
21:30:32  <TrueBrain> so meh :)
21:30:39  <TrueBrain> this time without error on the obj files
21:30:52  <glx> _dp_: source.list modified but you forgot projects/generate
21:31:14  <TrueBrain> it even linked :o
21:31:21  <LordAro> TrueBrain: :o
21:31:25  <TrueBrain> 35 MiB
21:31:28  <_dp_> glx, riiight, always forget weird systems exist xD
21:31:40  <TrueBrain> Mach-O 64-bit
21:31:48  <TrueBrain> so ... this seems to work
21:32:00  <glx> at least we have scripts to help
21:32:42  <TrueBrain> some shit to fix, but nothing to crazy .. this targetted 10.13 .. but 10.9 sounds better :D
21:32:47  <TrueBrain> PROGRESS
21:32:49  <TrueBrain> but for now
21:32:50  <TrueBrain> night!
21:32:55  <LordAro> o7
21:33:06  <glx> next step windows ;)
21:34:02  <peter1138> glx, heh, yeah, I remember having to manually update the random project files :)
21:34:10  <Wolf01> 'night
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21:34:45  <glx> peter1138: we have to many project files to do it manually
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21:43:34  <peter1138> These days, yes.
21:48:48  * andythenorth running out of livery variations :P
21:48:50  <andythenorth>
21:49:04  <andythenorth> only so many ways to do horizontal stripes of 1CC / 2CC :P
21:51:57  <peter1138> Problem with bootstrap is it introduces so much presentation detail into the HTML :S
21:52:30  <andythenorth> I stopped worrying about that years ago
21:52:48  <andythenorth> I read a lot of blog posts about people bollocksing on about semantic html
21:53:04  <andythenorth> and then I looked up the actual semantic meaning of <div> and <span>
21:53:11  <andythenorth> and decided the bloggers were a bit thick
21:54:06  <andythenorth> purple train
21:54:24  <andythenorth> probly purple not mauve CC
21:55:02  <peter1138> Will you mirror the text too?
21:55:20  <andythenorth> not so much
21:55:39  <andythenorth> it's nice that they did though
22:01:18  <andythenorth> bed innit
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