Log for #openttd on 23rd April 2018:
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06:02:37  <andythenorth> hi
06:06:50  <gooble> how are you?
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06:09:23  <peter1138> Erm
06:11:18  <peter1138> So this graphical issue I have, is there in master, but not too bad.
06:11:53  <peter1138> But I was trying this de-couple patch, and it's much worse there, precisely because it updates more often and therefore there's less time for the screen to "settle"
06:13:16  <andythenorth> :|
06:15:37  <gooble> can you make a network tycoon mod?
06:15:56  <gooble> you could probablly sell it on steam
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06:22:20  <andythenorth> Pikka: I sacked the 60
06:22:20  <andythenorth>
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07:14:52  <Pikka> hmmm
07:15:46  <Pikka> I did the opposite, moved the 59 back to the 66 to make room for the 60 :P but we'll see what happens when I get there
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07:42:06  <V453000> morening
07:42:14  <V453000> how much is more?
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07:58:07  <andythenorth> the 60 is dull :)
07:58:31  <andythenorth> Pikka: so shall I do a 57, or re-engine a 50?
07:58:36  <andythenorth> Thunder Hoover
08:01:41  <andythenorth> or
08:02:58  <V453000> dam
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09:00:03  <gooble> this game isnt even 3d
09:02:29  <LordAro> it took you 3 hours to work that out?
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09:08:39  <V453000> it looks perfectly 3D to me
09:08:41  <V453000> what are you talking about
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09:16:07  <Pikka> andythenorth, ew, western :)
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09:24:48  <andythenorth> ew :P
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09:53:40  <andythenorth> Pikka: so shall I just crack and draw a 57 then? :P
09:53:47  <andythenorth> it's getting quite realisms, this set
09:58:48  <andythenorth> I could do a 67, but...ayuck
09:59:35  <peter1138> Do a group livery
09:59:40  <peter1138> Oh, that's my task.
10:00:22  <andythenorth> is it fun?
10:00:55  <peter1138> Great.
10:08:35  <SpComb> do an unrealistic toyland set instead
10:09:07  <Eddi|zuHause> do a realistic toyland set!
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10:12:18  <V453000> is unrealistic temperate set an option?
10:18:25  <andythenorth> yes
10:19:14  <andythenorth> meh, just boring
10:19:47  <andythenorth> and this one is ugly
10:22:57  <andythenorth> at least this one has big grilles and stuff
10:24:58  <gooble> who needs driverless cars when you have one of these?
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10:58:16  <andythenorth> did a train
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11:14:10  <FLHerne> What's the stubby centre-pantograph loco?
11:15:25  <FLHerne> White top stripe on the IC stock looks funny to me
11:15:47  <FLHerne> (but I guess it would blend into the roof otherwise?)
11:24:10  <andythenorth> the stubby loco is fake
11:24:18  <andythenorth> it's a class 73/74 blend
11:25:06  <andythenorth> I wonder about losing the realistic intercity livery
11:25:10  <andythenorth> all the others are 2CC
11:25:28  <andythenorth> there are no IC engines to match, I tried, it looks weird
11:26:09  <andythenorth>
11:26:57  <andythenorth> the grey lacks definition too
12:08:32  <Pikka> yarp
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12:19:46  <peter1138> It's not 32bpp 2x, is it, see.
12:20:04  <andythenorth> nope
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12:36:42  * andythenorth sacks not-quite-Intercity livery
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13:04:14  <andythenorth> lawks
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13:25:48  <peter1138> Where's your Patreon then?
13:28:15  <andythenorth> dunno if I'd like it
13:28:18  <andythenorth> it would be like having customers
13:28:19  <andythenorth> eh
13:30:08  <SpComb> it does hurt a little to see patreon updates trying to explain why they haven't worked on some specific patreon project
13:30:50  <SpComb> although that's someone explicitly trying to go full-time on patreon donations
13:33:58  <andythenorth> things fall apart
13:53:10  <V453000> customers = enemy
13:55:17  <andythenorth> not proper customers
13:55:26  <andythenorth> under-paying customers = enemy
13:58:22  <V453000> that's a fair point
13:58:29  <V453000> but not having any "customers" is freeing
14:00:34  <SpComb> is not having any money also freeing? :P
14:00:36  <andythenorth> I have 1 customer :P
14:00:42  <andythenorth> for OTTD
14:00:48  <SpComb> yourself?
14:00:55  <andythenorth> yair
14:01:00  <andythenorth> hmm will this pixel trickery work
14:02:37  <andythenorth> nope
14:02:39  <andythenorth> crashed OTTD
14:03:59  <V453000> andythenorth: ?
14:04:17  <andythenorth> oh dear
14:04:58  * andythenorth now doing pixel evil
14:05:05  <andythenorth> based on knowing when purple looks like black
14:05:39  <V453000> :0
14:05:45  <V453000> that does sound pretty evil
14:05:59  <V453000> I'm trying to figure out the maximum box size for non-glitching trains
14:06:09  <andythenorth> 32
14:06:16  <V453000> is it?
14:06:19  * andythenorth has no idea
14:06:24  <andythenorth> sorry
14:06:28  <V453000> well the thing is that the diagonal height matters
14:07:00  <V453000> specifically talking about the glitch in tunnels when the vehicle is so large that you can see it on the tile behind the tunnel before it disappears in the tunnel
14:07:41  <V453000> because I have this design
14:07:57  <V453000> and I think it's basically at the maximum of not clipping
14:08:30  <V453000> the issue is, that since the shape is skewed like /\, I'm not sure how do I get a long connecting train out of this
14:08:39  <V453000> like a passenger/slug train which looks interconnected
14:08:54  <V453000> same time though I kind of like this /\ thing
14:09:22  <V453000> but I might have to abandon the idea of interconnected trains for it ... unless the interconnecting part is drawn on the front, which let's see how it looks but :0
14:10:18  <andythenorth> you mean overlapping interconnected?
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14:11:12  <V453000> interconnecting like a slug
14:11:24  <V453000> simply wagons which fit into each other pefectly in the length so they form a long thing
14:11:34  <V453000> typically used in passenger wagons
14:13:03  <V453000> I guess hiding the part into the other sprite at the front could work
14:13:06  <V453000> but :0
14:22:39  <V453000>
14:22:43  <V453000> iz plan
14:23:03  <V453000> curves might look wtf but they already do ...
14:23:31  <V453000> Can you think of something that the orange part would glitch with?
14:24:51  <andythenorth> tunnels I guess
14:24:54  <andythenorth> BIAB :)
14:25:02  <V453000> hm
14:25:05  <V453000> will just have to test
14:25:07  <V453000> cya
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14:38:02  <RAMOSPE> HI
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15:00:11  <supermop_work> yo
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15:15:18  <peter1138> zomg, factorio went up in price
15:20:55  <andythenorth> V isn't cheap eh
15:23:30  <peter1138> innit
15:24:16  <andythenorth> need some 2CC for this badger
15:24:34  <andythenorth> stripes or something
15:26:07  <peter1138> Can I play it yet?
15:26:29  <andythenorth> if you like – view yes
15:26:35  <andythenorth> it lacks \ / views
15:26:38  <peter1138> o_O
15:26:51  <andythenorth>
15:27:02  <andythenorth> I've played a few games with it
15:27:25  <peter1138> I guess I need to implement those diagonal stations again.
15:27:49  <andythenorth> :P
15:27:59  <andythenorth> I am relying on not seeing those for loading states :P
15:28:07  <andythenorth> don't have to draw them properly in \ /
15:28:09  <peter1138> Diagonal bridges...
15:28:33  <andythenorth> FWIW, the aggregate of forum and wiki and FS suggestions
15:28:43  <andythenorth> is the same as what one 8 year old can generate in a weekend
15:28:53  <andythenorth> so we don't need player suggestions
15:28:56  <andythenorth> just an 8 year old
15:29:25  <andythenorth> he's playing iOS Transport Tycoon now
15:31:01  <andythenorth> 'mostly OpenTTD is better'
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16:37:41  <peter1138> Hi
16:37:44  <peter1138> Where was I?
16:40:05  <andythenorth> made a film about that once
16:40:11  <andythenorth> drove a car into the sea
16:40:23  <andythenorth> interruptions
16:40:25  <peter1138> Oh.
16:41:10  <Eddi|zuHause> like those TV educational safety programs?
16:41:22  <andythenorth> not quite
16:41:39  <Eddi|zuHause> or... staplerfahrer klaus... :p
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16:51:02  <Wolf01> o/
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16:51:21  <andythenorth> hey Wolf01
16:51:36  <Wolf01> Hey andythenorth
16:52:37  <Thedarkb> I forgot to disable UFOs on my server.
16:52:52  <Thedarkb> I have paid the price.
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16:59:13  <Thedarkb> They just won't stop landing on my line and my line only.
17:00:06  <Eddi|zuHause> they have a tendency to land on the same spot
17:00:06  <Wolf01> It's hardcoded since TTDX, they already knew you back in 1996
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17:00:43  <Eddi|zuHause> it's basically just terrible randomness
17:03:47  <Eddi|zuHause> think of it like this: ask 10 people to think of a random number, and then you try to guess one of the chosen numbers: you pick a random number and count down from there until you guess one of the thought numbers. you're almost certainly hitting the person first who thought of the largest number
17:04:13  <Wolf01> 4, red, hammer
17:16:57  <Wolf01> <- Eddi
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17:17:20  <andythenorth> black roof or CC roof?
17:17:26  <andythenorth> V453000 ^ also others
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17:18:20  <Eddi|zuHause> difficult to say without world context
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17:19:52  <frosch123> too much cc makes everything look the same
17:23:11  <glx> too many pixels, I'd prefer a 1x image :)
17:23:35  <andythenorth> browser zoom? o_O
17:24:36  <glx> black roof looks nice
17:25:21  <Alkel_U3> Wolf01: for a moment I got really excited, thinking it's for C:S
17:26:58  <andythenorth> Eddi|zuHause: good point about context
17:27:11  <andythenorth> both CC the same, the engine is Thunderbird.  It replaces Wizzo
17:27:48  <andythenorth> I try to maintain continuity of colour or shape for engines in the same tech tree
17:28:23  <andythenorth> CC is shinier, but black is the better sprite
17:30:12  * andythenorth tries Mauve and Cream as CC
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18:09:17  <peter1138> Erm
18:15:46  <andythenorth> RGB CC?
18:15:47  <andythenorth> o_O
18:18:01  <vinnie> hello, a question about firs. Awesome grf btw
18:18:49  <vinnie> do primary industries grow like the default set with a random interval, or is the gung-ho the maximum value?
18:19:53  <andythenorth> they don't currently grow without supplies
18:20:18  <andythenorth> v4 _might_ grow like default *in addition* to supplies, but no promises
18:21:07  <vinnie> thank you
18:21:20  <vinnie> if been waiting ingame but i should just connect more then
18:21:46  <andythenorth> yes
18:22:12  <andythenorth> I've tried variations on supplies, but current version seems best
18:22:19  <andythenorth> but sometimes I want random changes as well
18:23:46  <vinnie> no its ok
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18:35:32  <andythenorth> now I have to draw Euro Cheese
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18:53:17  <peter1138> Take Five is impossible to play.
18:54:45  <peter1138> This window resizing lark is winding me up.
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19:01:24  <andythenorth> piece of cheese #1
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19:24:23  <Wolf01> Wow, so new that there's still the plastic cover on the bumpers
19:26:02  <peter1138> Hrmm, this window won't resize ;S
19:29:46  <peter1138> Wolf01, how's the patches :D
19:29:59  <Wolf01> Very WIP
19:30:06  <peter1138> *nod*
19:31:54  <Wolf01> I need to change the command calls from the UI because it passes the wrong values
19:41:12  <peter1138> hm
19:41:30  <peter1138> or convert them in the commands?
19:41:42  <Wolf01> I tried but failed badly
19:42:35  <Wolf01> (UI)RoadType->RoadTypes->(CMD)RoadType->RoadTypeIdentifier...
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19:43:00  <Wolf01> I had problems converting back to RoadType
19:43:35  <Wolf01> Dunno why... it's a flag, 1 or 10... returns always TRAM
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19:45:07  <Wolf01> And only on road stations! In the other places it seem to work
19:52:28  <V453000> andythenorth: I have to say I really like if not all of the sprite is CC
19:53:56  <peter1138> Wolf01, i'm guessing a silly mistake, if that's the only place that's wrong.
19:54:03  <peter1138> point me at the code again?
20:07:28  <Wolf01>
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20:24:31  <andythenorth> V453000: what other colours are valid? o_O
20:24:41  <andythenorth> I keep trying white, because Pikka does, but doesn't work for me
20:25:21  <V453000> Well grayscale is always awesome neutral, esp the middle greys I think, but black and white are awesome too. I find yellow the best "random colour to add to not have a greyscale + CC image"
20:25:44  <V453000> just my opinion but I think that's what many other sprites have
20:25:48  <V453000> like Pikka's :)
20:26:42  <V453000> these are one of the last things I have drawn
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20:27:25  <andythenorth> such yellow :)
20:27:32  <V453000> yar
20:27:35  <andythenorth> I am trying to hold back white for specific classes of vehicle
20:27:50  <andythenorth> there are various colour themes
20:28:54  <V453000> up to you :) I mean, there are reasons why NUTS looks like a parade of random shit instead of looking like a proper set with self-consistent style.
20:29:45  <andythenorth> so my next problem: 4 engines that IRL all look like upside down skips
20:29:52  <andythenorth> just cheese triangles on wheels
20:30:13  <V453000> what :D
20:30:31  * andythenorth wonders if skip translates
20:31:13  <andythenorth>
20:31:22  <andythenorth> now invert it, you get modern train
20:31:41  <andythenorth>
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20:33:29  <andythenorth> at least there are ribs and stuff
20:34:00  <V453000> :D
20:34:08  <V453000> I see
20:34:19  <V453000> I like non-box trains
20:34:33  <V453000> in fact I have been trying to make NUTS trains look like the weirdest shapes before
20:34:48  <andythenorth> Euro trains are all now box, to fit the adverts on
20:34:55  <V453000> in general I learned that most of them don't really work. If it gets too round then it doesn't really look like a train anymore
20:35:14  <V453000> no / \ at the ends?
20:35:16  <andythenorth> well if you push the boundary, you find where the boundary is
20:35:17  <V453000> just | |?
20:35:26  <V453000> pretty much
20:35:27  <andythenorth> no limits exceeded, you don't know the limit
20:35:39  <andythenorth> full wtf mode is only way to find out
20:35:57  <V453000> which is why slugs are so good, no round things but a body which extends instead
20:36:02  <V453000> it's the perfect train candidate
20:36:06  <V453000> snake would work too but eh
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20:36:18  <andythenorth> this is not engine, is work train
20:36:19  <V453000> admittedly I also have a turtle convoy ...
20:36:20  <andythenorth> but shapes
20:37:00  <V453000> what does it do, lay rails?
20:37:04  <V453000> it looks bad ass though, yes
20:37:46  <V453000> honestly, the front can have almost any shape you want
20:38:08  <V453000> but one of the looking good requirements is that the rear links into some kind of a long-y thing
20:38:20  <andythenorth> that's why I dislike cheese trains
20:38:24  <andythenorth> they slope at rear
20:38:33  <V453000> point
20:38:38  <V453000> interesting actually
20:38:54  <V453000> well that's basically what I was talking about with the example earlier
20:38:59  <V453000> with the BRIX-style shape
20:39:12  <andythenorth> not much cheese train here yet
20:39:29  <V453000> I think some degree of cheese is good
20:39:32  <V453000> or can be
20:39:43  <andythenorth> I will have to try one
20:39:45  <V453000> but for example passenger trains = no cheese
20:39:55  <andythenorth> I basically hate slopey stuff in ottd
20:39:57  <V453000> for freight I think it's no problem
20:40:24  <V453000> see how many non slopey trains I have
20:40:36  <peter1138> Wolf01, bujilding
20:41:37  <peter1138> wetrail woo
20:42:24  <Wolf01> V always overdoing :D
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20:43:15  <andythenorth> much trains
20:43:15  <V453000> Wolf01: I'm going to go full retard on the next one
20:43:16  <andythenorth> very pixel
20:43:23  <andythenorth> nyan still best
20:43:29  <peter1138> +if (!rtid.UnpackIfValid(GB(p1, 0, 2)));
20:43:30  <andythenorth> but not original :P
20:43:33  <peter1138> ^ empty if
20:43:46  <peter1138> (not the issue, but still)
20:43:55  <V453000> nyan actually still exists in nuts
20:44:05  <V453000> just not available in any climate :P
20:44:10  <Wolf01> Wow, did I really manage to do that? XD
20:44:10  <V453000> but reverse-compatibility still works
20:44:55  <V453000> Wolf01: wat? :P
20:45:02  <Wolf01> An empty if
20:45:03  <V453000> ah nvm
20:45:45  <V453000> quick check: I can get the vehicle's orientation through some callback, right?
20:46:46  <andythenorth> I could do a this thing
20:46:53  <andythenorth> blunt one end, slopey the other
20:47:12  <andythenorth> don't like em though :)
20:47:19  <V453000> andythenorth: you just started a term for me, cheese shape
20:47:44  <V453000> yeah that's what I would expect from a modern loco
20:48:29  <V453000> I find that very TTD AsiaStar / Lev4 / Turner Turbo / ... -like
20:48:39  <V453000> in a good way
20:49:01  * V453000 waits for andythenorth to make steam locos a box
20:49:13  <andythenorth> could be done
20:49:34  <V453000>
20:49:37  <andythenorth> 'cheese slope' is a lego piece
20:49:39  <V453000> this is actually steamer
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20:51:14  <andythenorth> is realism
20:51:24  <V453000> anyway, I can get the vehicle's orientation through some callback, right?
20:51:32  <andythenorth> also
20:51:39  <andythenorth> there is some var for orientation
20:51:45  <andythenorth> Eddi|zuHause uses it in CETS
20:51:55  <V453000> oh yeah
20:51:57  <V453000> great :) thanks
20:52:02  <V453000> I think the concept will work
20:52:20  <V453000> "congratulations, your sprite count just increased"
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21:02:39  <andythenorth> I should do a train grf like I did HEQS
21:02:45  <andythenorth> just draw all my favourite stuff
21:02:56  <andythenorth> ignore gameplay or consistent style
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21:05:57  <peter1138> Wolf01, p2 contains a bitmap, RoadTypeIdentifier::UnpackIfValid treats it as a value
21:07:01  <Wolf01> Yes, I wanted to test the bitmap in UnpackIfValid but I must be retarded as it returned only TRAM
21:07:07  <peter1138> Wolf01, nrt uses RoadTypeIdentifiers, not RoadTypeIdentifier
21:07:53  <peter1138> RoadTypeIdentifier contains one, RoadTypeIdentifiers contains two
21:08:02  <Wolf01> Yup
21:08:08  <peter1138> effectively replacing RoadType and RoadTypes, respectively.
21:08:27  <peter1138> You are shoving a RoadTypes into a RoadType
21:08:52  <Wolf01> A RoadTypes which only contains one RoadType
21:09:36  <V453000> I guess that's pretty much how NUTS was made andy
21:09:46  <Wolf01> The old code checked for "exactly one bit set"
21:09:50  <peter1138> Yes it only contains one, but it's passed as roadtypes
21:10:25  <peter1138> roadtype 0 = road, roadtype 1 = tram. roadtypes 0 = empty, roadtypes 1 = road, roadtypes 2 = tram, roadtypes 3 = road and tram
21:10:57  <peter1138> bit 0 of roadtypes is unset when it is tram
21:11:08  <peter1138> then roadtypes tram becomes roadtype road
21:11:15  <peter1138> and roadtypes road becomes roadtype tram
21:11:57  <Wolf01> Yup
21:12:10  <peter1138> So you know what is wrong now?
21:12:28  <Wolf01> Yes, I did know it before, but I wasn't able to fix that
21:12:37  <peter1138> errrr
21:13:53  <LordAro> yay, first of the completely redundant PRs
21:13:58  <peter1138> Wolf01, solution is to properly convert from roadtypes to rtid. unpackifvalid is the wrong function for that.
21:14:19  <peter1138> Wolf01, OR, just change the callers to send a roadtype instead of roadtypes.
21:14:38  <Wolf01> Yes that's what I wanted to do
21:16:49  <LordAro> michi_cc: not sure i would've accepted a single charcter PR, tbh :p
21:18:35  <michi_cc> What would you've done instead? "Find more typos or else?" or maybe "Thanks but no thanks" :p
21:20:32  <LordAro> one of those :p
21:20:39  <Wolf01> BTW, I think there are a lot of places I still need to convert to rtid, gamescripts, maybe level crossing
21:28:30  <Wolf01> Also 'night
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21:48:23  <andythenorth> V453000: slopey trains are suck
21:48:40  <andythenorth> they look distorted
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