Log for #openttd on 1st May 2018:
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05:56:37  <Eddi|zuHause> what's the git equivalent of "hg pull -u"?
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08:13:47  <Pikka> shhh
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08:21:29  <Pikka> gadzooks!
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08:31:34  <Wolf01> Moin
08:31:52  <peter1138> Hello
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08:40:07  <Wolf01> o/
08:40:13  <andythenorth> hi Wolf01
08:40:39  <Wolf01> Eh, lego arctic stuff is nice, your son is right, you must buy it :P
08:41:36  <andythenorth> not showed him yet
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10:07:15  <peter1138> Buy it. For me.
10:18:55  <peter1138> Hmm, silly spec, refer to a 4-byte header, to encode the message length.
10:19:17  <peter1138> But actually the length is 'encoded' as a text string, so "0020" would be a 20 character message.
10:19:39  <peter1138> It is technically 4 bytes, but...
10:20:18  <peter1138> Anyone actually use mouse-wheel map scrolling?
10:23:26  <nielsm> maybe someone who's actually using a trackpad would
10:23:44  <nielsm> I can imagine two-finder scrolling on a trackpad making sense for it
10:23:48  <nielsm> two-finger*
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10:24:35  <peter1138> andythenorth would know
10:25:04  <andythenorth> I turned on trackpad scroll yesterday
10:25:06  <andythenorth> it's great
10:25:09  <peter1138> Hmm, shame my Mac died, mind you it wouldn't be running the current version anyway.
10:25:13  <andythenorth> I couldn't use it before beacuse broken
10:25:59  <peter1138> How does it work? Two fingers?
10:26:01  <andythenorth> yes
10:26:04  <andythenorth> left and right
10:26:28  <peter1138> Err
10:26:47  <andythenorth> (it scrolls left and right)
10:26:53  <andythenorth> and up and down
10:27:00  * andythenorth should type better
10:27:10  <andythenorth> or not irc and RL talk
10:31:46  <peter1138> Oh right.
10:31:51  <peter1138> Hmm
10:31:52  <peter1138> Well
10:32:30  <peter1138> Does it work with scrollbars too?
10:32:39  <andythenorth> in-game, yes
10:32:49  <andythenorth> it works with anything that would respond to mousewheel scroll
10:32:55  <peter1138> Hmm, do we have horizontal scrollbars?
10:33:05  <peter1138> Think so :p
10:33:09  <andythenorth> and on OS X you can shift-mousewheel for horizontal scroll, which it simulates
10:33:23  <peter1138> Hmm
10:33:35  <peter1138> See, the issue is this feature is only supported for OS X.
10:33:40  <peter1138> Which seems nuts.
10:33:55  <peter1138> So I've got it sort of working on Windows, but I can't really compare how it works.
10:34:20  <peter1138> Plus I've only got a mouse, with the awkward push the scrollwheel left/right action, which is shitty.
10:37:27  <andythenorth> I can see the problem
10:37:40  <andythenorth> can't think of any suggestions though :P
10:37:53  <peter1138> Actually, I'm dumb. I have a laptop.
10:37:56  <peter1138> Oh, but it runs Linux.
10:38:26  <peter1138> Also kinda old, so may not understand 2 fingers anyway.
10:39:01  <andythenorth> had a Sony years ago with some magic bit of trackpad that was the scroll track
10:39:07  <andythenorth> nice theory
10:39:36  <peter1138> Yeah, annoying.
10:40:01  <peter1138> I had one machine where it behaved differently depending on the driver, which sort of makes sense.
10:40:22  <peter1138> Hmm, Logitech stopped selling their standalone trackpad.
10:41:05  <peter1138> T650.
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11:22:16  <peter1138> Hmm, seems it was non-standard anyway, so anything that may work wouldn't mean much :p
11:29:54  <peter1138> Hmm, could do it with SDL as well. Scroll-left and -right are mapped to buttons there.
11:33:08  <andythenorth> o_O
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11:34:37  <peter1138> Not quite the same thing, I'm sure :p
11:39:29  <nielsm> someone will complain that scrolling will be in steps and not smooth, or similar
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11:58:34  <Wolf01> andythenorth: ship
12:12:07  <Eddi|zuHause> what would you use that for, in terms of gameplay?
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12:15:44  <V453000> FOR SHIPPING
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12:28:29  <andythenorth> Wolf01: supplies ship
12:28:35  <andythenorth> not in Sam yet :P
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15:48:02  <Pikka> andythenorth, otoh:
15:48:57  <andythenorth> Pikka: also cute
15:49:11  <andythenorth> also brake vans on pax trains? o_O
15:50:34  <Pikka> only under exceptional circumstances :)
15:51:20  <Pikka> did you see one?
15:52:36  <andythenorth> pink train 2
15:52:45  <andythenorth> also I really like the trains they're building
15:54:32  <Pikka> :D
15:54:47  <andythenorth> they make correct choices so far
15:58:07  <Pikka> and a lot of passenger trains for an AI that doesn't build passenger trains yet :)
16:01:56  <andythenorth> ha
16:02:13  <andythenorth> it's got full-load and no-load orders :P
16:02:26  <andythenorth> makes money though
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16:06:42  <Pikka> normally, it only transports cargos to industries which produce food, goods or nothing. But when it's building a second line into a terminus, it considers all cargos that the station accepts, instead of just what the "target" industry accepts. So you get emergent behaviour, like collecting passengers from FIRS hotels. :)
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16:07:16  <andythenorth> tidy
16:09:06  <Pikka> as for the brake vans, its definition is a wagon which carries nothing, and can go as fast as the wagons. So if the brakevan has a lower maximum speed than the passenger cars, it shouldn't build it.
16:10:48  <Alberth> a non-braking brakevan :)
16:19:40  <andythenorth> brakevan has no speed limit
16:19:42  <andythenorth> because reasons
16:20:02  <Pikka> yarr
16:20:17  <Pikka> of course, when it builds "real" passenger trains, no brakevans :) but that can wait
16:20:20  <andythenorth> well emergent behaviour is fun
16:20:32  <andythenorth> glad I didn't start an AI :P
16:20:38  <andythenorth> I'd be completely lost to the world
16:28:57  <Pikka> it's quite a rabbit hole
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16:53:32  <frosch123> <- done with barfing, now finally some coding
16:54:18  <frosch123> TrueBrain: feel free to throw GDPR at it :)
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17:07:15  <nielsm> time to put the CI to work again
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17:14:59  <nielsm> just replaced the HEPA filter in my air cleaner, the old filter felt much heavier than the new so I weighed them
17:15:22  <nielsm> appears the old filter had collected about 100 grams of tine particles over the past year
17:16:08  <nielsm> I'm glad I have that running, after getting that number
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18:07:11  <andythenorth> well
18:09:25  <Wolf01> yes
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18:39:42  <michi_cc> nielsm: Got an access violation at win32_m.cpp:89 (midiOutLongMsg) on the first TransmitSysexConst in Start
18:40:10  <nielsm> huh
18:40:37  <nielsm> what os and midi driver?
18:41:03  <nielsm> also debug or release build?
18:41:33  <TrueBrain> lol @ frosch123 .. you had some fun writing that, didn't you?
18:42:53  <frosch123> i used it to add details to the table layout :)
18:42:57  <TrueBrain> frosch123: I can already tell you has to be changed in the Delete category: no, anominized only
18:43:46  <michi_cc> nielsm: Debug, VS2017, Win10, 64-bit
18:43:48  <TrueBrain> which can exist next to "invisible" btw
18:44:29  <nielsm> I have no idea how it should be able to fail, that part
18:45:37  <TrueBrain> frosch123: I would rename 'pending' into 'draft', as pending sounds like some system is stillw orking on it
18:46:03  <nielsm> actually, let me see if I can make a 64 bit build myself
18:46:15  <frosch123> TrueBrain: is the username so special? we have to keep account names to make banning effective, so how much more value is there in usernames?
18:46:16  <nielsm> last I tried that the compiler crashed with an internal error
18:46:19  <michi_cc> nielsm: I would suggest re-reading the docs for midiOutPrepareHeader, especially the part about what to set before calling it (and not after).
18:46:19  <TrueBrain> frosch123: and will read it in more detail in the weekend; but your promise made me giggle :D
18:46:19  <nielsm> (VS2015)
18:46:34  <frosch123> TrueBrain: :p
18:46:36  <TrueBrain> frosch123: != Person.username :)
18:46:50  <TrueBrain> we also track peoples real name, in general
18:46:50  <frosch123> well, it's not supposed to be a real name
18:47:02  <TrueBrain> our other systems do, hence the jump there
18:47:27  <TrueBrain> there is also an idoligy behind that: if you are asked for your real name and username, you are much less likely to use your real name in your username, by accident etc
18:48:06  <TrueBrain> possibly nice to make 'show my real name' / 'show my nickname'
18:48:19  <TrueBrain> but okay, if you meant username/nickname, sure
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18:48:55  <nielsm> michi_cc oh I see
18:49:05  <michi_cc> nielsm: I.e. if I modify TransmitSysex accordingly, it doesn't crash :)
18:49:47  <nielsm> I guess it's a difference in 32 bit and 64 bit mmsystem
18:50:00  <nielsm> with 32 bit being more lax
18:52:43  <TrueBrain> frosch123: come to think of it, even for nicknames I think it would be nice .. storing that for ever seems silly
18:52:53  <TrueBrain> and how would it make banning any more or less effective
18:52:54  <TrueBrain> ?
18:53:13  <TrueBrain> I think banning should be done on the link to that Person. Which we store, for, say, 3 months
18:53:30  <TrueBrain> (we cannot ban someone for life btw; but that is just the fine-print)
18:53:41  <frosch123> if a person registers with their github account
18:53:49  <frosch123> i want to ban that github account
18:53:57  <frosch123> so i need to store the github login name
18:54:02  <nielsm> let me just try to make a 64 bit build again...
18:54:04  <TrueBrain> so we ban that github account; we can still change into 'banned' :)
18:54:15  <TrueBrain> but we can blacklist the link data
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18:56:12  <TrueBrain> either way, have to read it with more attention to really comment :) Too sleepy tonight for that :)
18:56:30  <frosch123> thanks anyway :)
18:57:20  <michi_cc> frosch123: Any comment on the open review thing (if formatting) at ?
18:58:12  * andythenorth opts out of processing
18:58:54  <frosch123> michi_cc: i would write it on the same line, but i also deliberately ignored that on some other PR, just to not annoy with details :)
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18:59:56  <frosch123> just "\n" without "{" is forbidden
19:00:36  <nielsm> michi_cc I can't reprouce the crash, but I see it's wrong per MSDN so preparing fix :)
19:05:22  <nielsm> anything else?
19:23:42  <michi_cc> nielsm: I can hear music :p
19:24:11  <Pikka> uhoh
19:24:14  <frosch123> call the cops
19:25:03  <nielsm> sounds good?
19:25:04  <nielsm> :)
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19:30:34  <michi_cc> nielsm: It sounds like always (which is good here) on the bog standard windows synth.
19:31:42  <andythenorth> Pikka: these AIs are very civil
19:32:03  <Pikka> is that a good thing?
19:33:18  <andythenorth> yes, but not as a spectator sport
19:33:30  <andythenorth> if they were more aggressive in gameplay it would be boring
19:33:33  <andythenorth> but I am just watching :P
19:33:53  <andythenorth> oh this is like the Godwin rule for UK grfs
19:34:12  <Pikka> :) I was going to say
19:34:14  <nielsm> michi_cc: I suppose the more interesting testing would be whether it also works as well on less powerful machines and on older versions of windows
19:34:28  <nielsm> but I don't really have any setup to test that myself
19:34:54  <nielsm> but I _think_ I've limited API calls to things present back to win95
19:36:25  <nielsm> there, pushed the midiOutPrepareHeader fix
19:36:57  <glx> hard to say as MSDN info about minimum version is not really accurate now
19:37:34  <nielsm> unfortunately yes :(
19:37:54  <michi_cc> Windows 2000 can most of the time be read as Win 9x, too.
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19:38:55  <andythenorth> actually it's a bit less civil about RVs :)
19:39:50  <nielsm> the thing I'm most unsure about re. compatibility might be timeSetEvent with callback function, and second place are the critical section things
19:39:51  <glx> but I think midiOut stuff was already in win9x, for low level access
19:40:07  <nielsm> yes that api dates back to windows 3.0 afaik
19:41:23  <nielsm>  <- this might be useful!
19:41:56  <glx> I had one in VB4 time
19:45:51  <nielsm> I'll download the october 2001 version and install it on my WinMe retro pc
19:46:33  <glx> I'm checking in mingw winapi to see if there are guards around the functions
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19:47:39  <michi_cc> Japanese MSDN says Win95:
19:48:36  <nielsm> cool
19:49:18  <andythenorth> hey look
19:49:26  <andythenorth> somebody did it already :P
19:49:45  <glx> it's crazy how having boost slows the search in files
19:49:47  <Pikka> scuddles, what a surprise
19:50:21  <andythenorth> scuddles is a mystery to me
19:51:06  <Pikka> haven't spoken to him for a while... mostly because I'm never online on steam any more
19:53:57  <glx> nielsm: critical section seems ok too
19:55:34  <andythenorth> shall I tell SYL there's a GT 3 in UKRS 3 o_O
19:55:41  <andythenorth> would be rude not to include it
19:55:57  <Pikka> yuck
19:56:27  <andythenorth> it's not so bad, it's just 'why?'
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21:03:25  <nielsm> in case anyone vetoes my PR for removing the dmusic driver, I have an alternate patch ready that adds reliable volume control to it instead ;)
21:04:59  <nielsm> and now, goodnight
21:05:06  <nielsm> vacation is over for me
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21:43:00  <Wolf01> 'night
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23:44:24  <peter1138> argh
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