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00:07:48 *** rocky1138 has joined #openttd 00:15:10 *** ArtemVorotnikov[m] has joined #openttd 00:16:49 *** ArtemVorotnikov[m] is now known as vorot93 00:17:02 <vorot93> hello 00:26:01 <vorot93> I've started skimming through the code and what strikes me is how modern C++ features and stdlib are underused. For instance, an otherwise simple `GRFText` class which is full of custom allocation code for dealing with underlying `char[]`. Is there a particular reason for this except for the code having been written in pre-modern C++ era? 00:31:38 *** chomwitt has quit IRC 00:36:10 <Eddi|zuHause> mostly it's because the code is old 00:57:58 <vorot93> (also the fact that a class is both declared and defined in .cpp) 00:59:49 *** KouDy has joined #openttd 01:03:57 *** ToBeFree has joined #openttd 01:45:18 *** ToBeFree has quit IRC 02:04:45 *** glx has quit IRC 02:32:23 *** Thedarkb-X40 has joined #openttd 02:36:37 *** Thedarkb1-X40 has quit IRC 02:43:24 *** muffindrake3 has joined #openttd 02:45:14 *** muffindrake2 has quit IRC 02:49:47 *** Flygon has joined #openttd 03:40:01 *** KouDy has quit IRC 04:25:35 *** KouDy has joined #openttd 04:52:12 <Eddi|zuHause> @calc 18*600 04:52:12 <DorpsGek> Eddi|zuHause: 10800 05:15:17 *** sla_ro|master has joined #openttd 05:22:47 *** Wacko1976 has joined #openttd 05:35:34 *** Cubey has quit IRC 05:51:17 *** Wacko1976 has quit IRC 06:19:57 *** KouDy has quit IRC 06:21:04 *** KouDy has joined #openttd 06:27:16 *** Pikka has joined #openttd 06:28:26 *** andythenorth has joined #openttd 06:28:35 <andythenorth> o/ 06:29:37 <Pikka> o/ 06:30:00 <peter1138> hi 06:30:44 <Pikka> bonjour 06:35:00 * Pikka -> shoppe, bbl 06:35:03 *** Pikka has quit IRC 06:37:10 *** nielsm has joined #openttd 06:40:11 *** sla_ro|master2 has joined #openttd 06:42:48 *** sla_ro|master has quit IRC 06:50:50 *** HerzogDeXtEr has joined #openttd 07:21:27 *** andythenorth has quit IRC 07:54:52 *** Progman has joined #openttd 07:55:48 *** Pikka has joined #openttd 07:56:43 *** gelignite has joined #openttd 07:59:42 *** Wolf01 has joined #openttd 07:59:46 <Wolf01> Moin 08:02:13 <Pikka> V453000, https://github.com/OpenTTD/OpenTTD/issues/5877 08:02:55 <Pikka> "when the train stops at a signal, something is happening, but the running cost is weirdly blinking between smoe two values" 08:04:23 <Pikka> but who uses non-path signals anyway? ;) 08:05:26 <nielsm> standard block signals sort-of make sense to use along a line without junctions? and just use path signals when you have splits 08:05:41 <nielsm> at least I've seen claims that using path signals for that uses more cpu 08:06:08 <nielsm> (which matters if you're on a server on a cheap shared hosting) 08:07:39 <LordAro> well they're definitely "more expensive" 08:07:58 <LordAro> but i've never seen any actual evidence that they're a significant factor 08:08:05 *** Fuco has joined #openttd 08:09:36 *** Maraxus has joined #openttd 08:20:13 *** Maraxus has quit IRC 08:23:21 *** Gja has joined #openttd 09:10:51 *** Wacko1976 has joined #openttd 09:16:14 <Eddi|zuHause> i don't think that claim has ever been conclusively proven 09:30:45 *** Wormnest has joined #openttd 09:59:47 *** Progman has quit IRC 10:00:04 *** andythenorth_ has joined #openttd 10:00:30 <andythenorth_> o/ 10:01:21 <Wolf01> o/ 10:02:03 *** chomwitt has joined #openttd 10:02:23 <andythenorth_> sunny 10:12:55 *** andythenorth_ has quit IRC 10:16:48 *** andythenorth_ has joined #openttd 10:19:22 <Pikka> not that sunny, then? 10:19:47 *** andythenorth_ has quit IRC 11:08:49 <Pikka> it's not sunny here but 11:08:52 *** Pikka has quit IRC 11:12:18 <nielsm> https://github.com/OpenTTD/OpenTTD/issues/6685 <- this was merged and can be closed 11:16:51 <michi_cc> Hmm, slight bummer with low-level DirectMusic... Feeding raw MIDI was actually easier than expected (except some tiny hickups with stopping), but the whole point would be to allow the DMusic synth to be used. 11:17:46 <michi_cc> And that synth is a DLS synth which needs a DLS download. And the DLS loading code is not part of the low-level stuff, which means a custom DLS file parser. Joy. 11:18:21 <nielsm> :D 11:18:40 <nielsm> I think you still wouldn't get the reverb effects either 11:19:00 <nielsm> I think you need to manually insert and control some effect DMOs in the sound path for those 11:19:47 <michi_cc> Otherwise, the raw DirectMusic API is probably the superior MIDI API as it works with timestamped midi messages. 11:20:14 <nielsm> hm well winmm also has the midiStreamOut API which takes timestamped messages 11:20:24 <nielsm> but the docs for it confused me 11:20:41 <nielsm> so was easier to use the direct 11:21:15 <michi_cc> nielsm: Nope, that seems to be the synth itself. You can use the low-level API and only the high-level DLS reader and get the same sound. It's just not part of 64-bit windows or the current SDK headers. 11:21:45 <nielsm> but I think it's better to just make an open source softsynth work properly on windows 11:22:04 <nielsm> since MS is still marking all of dmusic as deprecated and threatening with removing it 11:24:44 <michi_cc> Yeah, but it can't be that deprecated. DirectMusic was initially not implemented at all for 64-bit, but MS then later added parts of with Windows 7. You wouldn't do that just for fun. 11:29:32 *** Wacko1976 has quit IRC 11:29:37 *** chomwitt has quit IRC 11:35:43 *** andythenorth has joined #openttd 11:38:30 <nielsm> for gloating, here's how the music sounds on a real roland soundcanvas: http://0x0.st/s1dv.MP3 11:38:41 <nielsm> (SC-55st) 11:42:28 <nielsm> the drums are cleaner and the slapped bass better defined than the MS synth DLS recordings, but mostly the effects on the MS synth are actually excessive IMO 11:42:46 <nielsm> so no need to be that much up in arms over it ;) 11:45:14 <nielsm> also the theme: http://0x0.st/s1dY.MP3 11:45:50 <andythenorth> I love it when people obsess over details :) 11:46:35 *** iSoSyS has joined #openttd 11:47:07 *** Stimrol has quit IRC 11:47:09 <nielsm> nobody who isn't obsessive over details would still bother with TT :) 11:50:34 *** Stimrol has joined #openttd 11:52:10 *** KouDy has quit IRC 12:07:00 *** sla_ro|master2 has quit IRC 12:07:01 *** KouDy has joined #openttd 12:16:34 *** chomwitt has joined #openttd 12:38:35 <Eddi|zuHause> midi sounded really awesome on my SoundBlaster AWE32 back then 12:38:39 *** gelignite has quit IRC 12:39:24 <Eddi|zuHause> unfortunately i have no computer where it fits in anymore 12:39:54 <Eddi|zuHause> i don't suppose there's PCI-E to ISA adapters? 12:39:58 <Eddi|zuHause> :p 12:41:21 <peter1138> Progress, eh? 12:42:18 <peter1138> Back in the day you'd have multiple audio channels for mixing, wavetable synth, OPL FM synth, digital effects... 12:42:38 <peter1138> Now they just expect the CPU to do it all. 12:43:00 <Eddi|zuHause> back in the day you'd have to manually fiddle with IRQ settings 12:57:02 *** kais58_ has quit IRC 13:03:49 *** Gja has quit IRC 13:08:25 *** Gja has joined #openttd 13:37:52 <andythenorth> Wolf01: rebase NRT? o_O 13:38:03 <andythenorth> or one giant patch? 13:38:51 <Wolf01> New repo + one giant patch could help to clean up things 13:39:49 <andythenorth> have you got a new Openttd/Wolf? 13:40:31 <Wolf01> Yes, but I rebased every branch I had 13:41:57 <Wolf01> I was working on a new repo for NRT to make it like in 2-3 distinct commits, so it could be merged to master in different steps 13:42:05 <andythenorth> so I'll leave this in place https://github.com/andythenorth/NotRoadTypes 13:42:13 <andythenorth> would be stupid to delete that :) 13:42:26 <Wolf01> You could rename it NRT-depr 13:42:32 <andythenorth> ok 13:42:41 <andythenorth> well I'll at least add notes 13:46:02 *** frosch123 has joined #openttd 13:49:47 <Wolf01> Quak 13:50:27 <Wolf01> So, I think it's time to have a breakfast... I ate too much yesterday and only now I can feel again I'm hungry 13:52:10 <frosch123> moi 13:53:53 <andythenorth> @calc (119/2)/24 13:53:53 <DorpsGek> andythenorth: 2.47916666667 13:53:57 <andythenorth> hmm 13:54:10 <andythenorth> I can draw 2 trains per hour, Horse will take time :P 14:04:30 <peter1138> Is that including \ | and / views? :p 14:04:53 <peter1138> Plus doubling up for assymmetric wagons. 14:08:30 <andythenorth> it's including all of that 14:09:30 <andythenorth> it also includes all of the time restarting openttd :) 14:09:40 <andythenorth> and rebuilding my lost saves 14:21:27 *** iSoSyS has quit IRC 14:26:12 *** dusan has joined #openttd 14:31:33 *** Wacko1976 has joined #openttd 14:42:56 <Eddi|zuHause> why restart? isn't it enough to reload_newgrfs? 14:46:44 <andythenorth> it crashes a lot 14:46:49 <andythenorth> either cleanly, or not 14:47:15 <andythenorth> ottd really hates the grf changing on disk under it 14:48:28 <Eddi|zuHause> yeah, if you let the game unpaused while you change it. 14:48:55 <Eddi|zuHause> but if you reload_newgrf, and didn't change any vehicle lengths or whatnot, it should work 14:50:08 <Eddi|zuHause> (that implies a few assumptions like stable vehicle IDs between compiles) 14:50:52 <Eddi|zuHause> but that should cover all your drawing concerns 14:55:05 <LordAro> feel like it should be able to cope a bit better than hard crashing anyway 14:57:20 <frosch123> nml unlinks the file, before writing the new grf 14:57:38 <frosch123> so unless andy has a custom cp/install in place, i have no idea why ottd should crash 14:57:40 <dusan> testing 123 14:58:48 <andythenorth> I have a make install target 14:59:00 <frosch123> then i would blame it on that one :) 14:59:01 <andythenorth> which might be exactly the cause 14:59:16 <andythenorth> it crashes hard, even sometimes when the change is just a pixel 14:59:41 <dusan> what are you guys upto 15:00:12 <andythenorth> frosch123: is there a better way? o_O http://dev.openttdcoop.org/projects/iron-horse/repository/entry/Makefile#L114 15:00:46 <frosch123> andythenorth: try adding "--remove-destination" to the cp 15:00:54 <frosch123> but no idea how standard that is 15:00:57 <frosch123> it may be a gnu extension 15:01:05 * andythenorth reading about it 15:02:10 *** dusan has quit IRC 15:02:45 <Eddi|zuHause> andythenorth: i just have a symlink to my development file 15:03:08 <andythenorth> seems --remove-destination isn't in macOS cp 15:03:25 <Eddi|zuHause> then add "rm $destination" 15:03:39 <andythenorth> there's a -f 15:03:44 <andythenorth> might not be what I want 15:03:45 <Eddi|zuHause> that sounds wrong 15:04:03 <Eddi|zuHause> that's probably "ignore readonly" and stuff 15:05:53 <andythenorth> so what's the underlying reason to rm first? 15:06:01 <andythenorth> I don't like cargo culting stuff :) 15:06:21 <frosch123> the difference is between replacing the file with a new one 15:06:39 <frosch123> or replacnig the content of the file 15:06:41 <andythenorth> is someone about to say 'inode'? o_O 15:06:42 <Eddi|zuHause> openttd will not try to read the changed file, but will retain a (hidden) link to the old file, while you write the new file 15:07:06 <Eddi|zuHause> the old file will be deleted when openttd drops the file handle (on "reload_newgrf") or close 15:07:43 <andythenorth> ok 15:07:45 <Eddi|zuHause> i wasn't going to, the concept of inode is even another level deeper 15:07:58 <andythenorth> we have similar issues with web apps on production servers 15:08:02 *** Borg has joined #openttd 15:08:09 <andythenorth> they don't always release a file cleanly, with varying results 15:09:06 <Eddi|zuHause> well, you could have all sorts of fractal problems there :p 15:10:34 <andythenorth> occasionally a file looks released, but some process is still writing to it, so the disk fills 15:11:08 <Eddi|zuHause> you know about "lsof"? 15:11:21 *** Thedarkb has joined #openttd 15:11:23 <Eddi|zuHause> might help debugging that problem 15:11:43 <andythenorth> I only have to witness it being solved :) 15:11:55 <andythenorth> other people know about lsof 15:12:10 *** synchris has joined #openttd 15:15:44 <andythenorth> I've made that change in makefiles ,thanks 15:22:31 <andythenorth> should help a lot 15:55:02 <andythenorth> @calc 16/3 15:55:02 <DorpsGek> andythenorth: 5.33333333333 16:01:10 *** nahkiss has quit IRC 16:01:17 *** nahkiss has joined #openttd 16:02:56 *** andythenorth has quit IRC 16:29:17 *** Guest1915 has joined #openttd 16:29:19 <Guest1915> hi 16:29:22 <Guest1915> who ruined this game? 16:29:32 <Guest1915> by ruined, I mean, implemented terraforming limits 16:29:53 <Guest1915> how do I turn this bs off? 16:30:04 <LordAro> it's been there for at least 5 years 16:30:17 <LordAro> and pretty sure there's a setting anyway 16:30:19 <Guest1915> strange because I haven't noticed in 2015 16:30:37 *** Gja has quit IRC 16:30:37 <Guest1915> I typed in "terraforming" in settings search and it's not popping up 16:31:31 <nielsm> what kind of limits? 16:31:36 *** Gja has joined #openttd 16:31:48 <Guest1915> <Guest1915> by ruined, I mean, implemented terraforming limits 16:31:55 <Guest1915> I can't level a mountain 16:31:58 <nielsm> I've never bumped into anything limiting how much landscaping I can do 16:32:38 <LordAro> yeah, looks like it's not in the gui 16:33:00 <LordAro> terraform_frame_burst 16:33:07 <LordAro> alternatively, just wait a bit 16:33:26 <LordAro> or do it in smaller chunks 16:34:34 <Guest1915> https://i.imgur.com/eNSD10j.png 16:34:47 <Guest1915> I can't wait 543980 years before I make 1 train line, cmon :/ 16:35:05 <nielsm> then change the limit in the config file 16:35:25 <nielsm> I think it's a setting to limit griefing potential in multiplayer games, mainly? 16:36:01 <Guest1915> this is ridiculous 16:36:40 <Guest1915> terraform_per_64k_frames, is that it? 16:36:49 <LordAro> probably 16:36:57 <LordAro> or just wait 64k frames :p 16:37:01 <Guest1915> :| 16:37:05 <Guest1915> I will set this to -1 16:37:08 <Guest1915> and after I'm done 16:37:10 <nielsm> 64k frames is how much... 16:37:15 <Guest1915> I will write a patch set that removes this bs 16:37:16 <LordAro> @calc 64000/74 16:37:16 <DorpsGek> LordAro: 864.864864865 16:37:24 <LordAro> that many seconds 16:37:29 <LordAro> Guest1915: yoi're being silly 16:37:33 <LordAro> and overly agressive 16:37:43 <Guest1915> ;-; 16:38:01 <Guest1915> sorry if I came up rough, but this is majorly griefing my openttd experience 16:38:19 <Guest1915> rest asured the patch will be just for myself 16:38:36 <LordAro> why on earth do you need a patch then? 16:38:41 <LordAro> it's got a config setting 16:38:49 <LordAro> surely that is simpler 16:40:59 <LordAro> not sure i've ever actually seen anyone (who wasn't griefing) hit that limit before anyway 16:41:46 <Guest1915> me trying to level a mountain just so I can establish a maglev that doesn't have to ride up and down has hit that limit 16:43:32 <LordAro> doesn't look like a huge mountain, i wonder if that setting hadn't been set to a lower value than default 16:43:34 <nielsm> (not like the maglev train would actually be slowed by the presence of the mountain) 16:43:52 <LordAro> ^ unless original acceleration model 16:44:49 <Guest1915> I am on the original accel model 16:45:16 <LordAro> i see 16:46:18 <nielsm> anyway, as far as I can tell, the terraform_frame_burst setting in the cfg file controls how many tiles-permitted-to-modify you get per tick 16:47:30 <nielsm> but just be aware that internally it's handled as an uint32 and for some reason values are shiftes 16 bits left 16:48:18 <LordAro> Rubidium was original implementer, iirc 16:49:14 <nielsm> introduced between version 1.0 and 1.1 16:49:37 *** Guest1915 has quit IRC 16:50:20 <Rubidium> nielsm: easy, values are 'per 64k ticks', so shift back by 16 bits and you got the value per tick 16:50:38 <Rubidium> after all 64k (in this instance) == 2**16 16:51:44 <Rubidium> also, with both settings at their maximum value you have to be really really good at your "job" to even trigger it 16:52:43 <LordAro> nielsm: ah, 7 years then :p 17:07:03 <Borg> Orginal accel model?!!! wtf?!! 17:07:10 <Borg> oh he left.. 17:07:17 <Borg> probably some noob.. 17:07:19 <Borg> ignore him 17:07:20 <Borg> ;) 17:18:45 *** Flygon has quit IRC 17:45:11 *** Borg has quit IRC 17:48:40 <peter1138> How dare you ruin the game! 18:04:43 *** Progman has joined #openttd 18:08:06 *** andythenorth has joined #openttd 18:15:36 <Eddi|zuHause> yeah, how dare you ruin the game retroactively 7 years ago, and nobody, even him, noticed 18:22:19 <andythenorth> if you like Pearl Jam https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pfQnUI3AGO8 18:22:22 <andythenorth> otherwise ignore :P 18:28:35 <peter1138> Shows you how much I play the game, cos I've never seen it. 18:28:44 <peter1138> Mind you I don't flatten mountains. 18:29:23 <andythenorth> me neither 18:29:34 <andythenorth> and I play maybe 10 games per year 18:31:00 <LordAro> wow, 10 18:35:50 <andythenorth> loads eh 19:10:32 * andythenorth wonders how long narrow gauge wagons should be 19:10:35 <andythenorth> in /8 units 19:10:56 <andythenorth> 'small' standard gauge are 4/8 19:13:33 <V453000> 666 19:14:15 <andythenorth> @666/8 * 16 19:14:45 <andythenorth> probably not good in corners though 19:17:42 *** snail_UES_ has quit IRC 19:29:43 *** sla_ro|master has joined #openttd 19:32:15 *** synchris has quit IRC 19:32:53 *** gelignite has joined #openttd 19:42:27 *** chomwitt has quit IRC 19:46:49 <andythenorth> 3/8 is kind of nice 19:46:55 <andythenorth> but doesn't make nice integer lengths 19:47:07 *** Thedarkb-X40 has quit IRC 19:50:18 <V453000> well then I guess if NG has to be smaller, 3/8 it iz 19:50:30 <V453000> that's crazy small though, make sure you start with \ / :P 19:50:55 <andythenorth> 2/8 is even worse 19:51:03 <andythenorth> 4/8 winner 19:51:07 <frosch123> make wagons with 3 articualted parts 19:51:15 <frosch123> than fake the 9/8 into 8/8 19:51:28 <andythenorth> might be valid 19:51:34 <V453000> :D 19:51:35 <andythenorth> because capacity per wagon is so low 19:54:05 <andythenorth> http://www.rmweb.co.uk/community/uploads/monthly_10_2016/post-6750-0-11662200-1475498066.jpg 19:58:56 <andythenorth> 10t per wagon eh 19:59:12 <V453000> well that's 30t 8/8 20:00:04 <andythenorth> yair 20:01:14 <V453000> "standard" :P 20:04:06 *** nielsm has quit IRC 20:09:33 *** Pikka has joined #openttd 20:12:36 <Pikka> very 20:14:16 <V453000> Pikka: moar trainz? :) 20:14:37 <Pikka> many 20:14:52 <V453000> such 20:14:56 <Pikka> if I can stop fiddling with the AI for ten minutes 20:16:16 <andythenorth> is it done yet? o_O 20:16:19 <V453000> :D that's also good 20:17:24 *** glx has joined #openttd 20:17:24 *** ChanServ sets mode: +v glx 20:18:07 *** Gja has quit IRC 20:19:36 *** Gja has joined #openttd 20:25:13 *** Gja has quit IRC 20:30:48 *** frosch123 has quit IRC 20:40:56 <andythenorth> meh 20:44:15 <peter1138> hem 20:44:59 <Pikka> yoyo 20:49:57 <andythenorth> 3/8 then? :( 20:56:51 *** Cubey has joined #openttd 20:57:23 <Pikka> that's pretty tiny 21:07:24 *** sla_ro|master has quit IRC 21:14:05 <Wolf01> 'night 21:14:08 *** Wolf01 has quit IRC 21:14:22 <andythenorth> it's also untidy :P 21:22:36 *** gelignite has quit IRC 21:30:21 <Pikka> 4/8 makes better integer trains? :P 21:31:20 <andythenorth> yes 21:31:25 <andythenorth> I just need to draw better 21:31:31 <andythenorth> so it looks nice 21:31:38 * andythenorth working on it 21:33:56 *** HerzogDeXtEr has quit IRC 21:42:32 *** Stimrol has quit IRC 21:46:13 *** andythenorth has quit IRC 21:57:38 *** Progman has quit IRC 22:04:31 *** snail_UES_ has joined #openttd 22:14:29 *** kais58 has joined #openttd 22:25:17 *** Thedarkb has quit IRC 22:28:13 <Pikka> hmm, AI can't buy tiles? 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