Log for #openttd on 4th June 2018:
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08:49:48  <peter1138> Ah, so, Microsoft Github.
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08:51:48  <peter1138> lol
08:53:18  <Eddi|zuHause> that is surely going to convince anybody...
08:53:28  <peter1138> ikr
08:54:33  <Eddi|zuHause> you know what would be a great idea? migrating away from github :p
09:13:00  <Flygon> Eddi|zuHause: I mean...
09:13:12  <Flygon> gitlab's apparently struggling with the mass migration atm. :P
09:13:28  <Flygon> Difficulty level is if Microsoft somehow figures out how to buy gitlab. :V
09:13:56  <Eddi|zuHause> "Links antäuschen und rechts schießen"
09:14:37  <Eddi|zuHause> (i'm convinced there's an english equivalent of football metaphors like that)
09:14:59  <Flygon> Well, I know what what you typed wasn't "They shot an own goal".
09:15:01  <Flygon> :P
09:15:34  <Eddi|zuHause> no, it's making the opponent think you're shooting with the left foot, and then do it with the right one
09:16:01  <Flygon> Oh!
09:16:03  <Flygon> Uh...
09:16:09  <Flygon> ...
09:16:12  <Flygon> A Feint?
09:16:55  <Eddi|zuHause> possibly
09:29:14  <Flygon> Yeah, I don't know the phrase either.
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09:49:30  <LordAro> Eddi|zuHause: hey, i suggested gitlab from the start :p
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13:11:47  <peter1138> Hmm, I wonder if a whole ton of newgrf properties/callbacks should actually only ever be performed on vehicle creation.
13:15:59  <LordAro>
13:38:12  <peter1138> Indeed.
13:38:17  <peter1138> Doesn't concern me.
13:38:38  <Eddi|zuHause> peter1138: that needs a more powerful purchase window
13:40:09  <peter1138> True.
13:40:53  <peter1138> Or properties could get "set" when changing the consist (in the depot)
13:41:10  <peter1138> So, er, when they get split by shunting, because that's the thread I was looking at, nothing changes.
13:41:17  <peter1138> But, uh... Hmmm.
13:41:48  <peter1138> I should work on the promised patches before I get distracted :S
13:42:19  <LordAro> ha
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13:55:17  <andythenorth> ha ha, it is quite neat to watch :)
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13:58:02  <m3henry> Yeah, I do like that a lot
13:58:27  <V453000> :0 Microsoft to rule them all
14:01:53  <peter1138> Whatever happened to running sounds...
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14:02:04  <Eddi|zuHause> aw damn, the tiny-insects-that-crawl-into-monitors season has begun, and i can't have any open windows anymore
14:02:20  <Eddi|zuHause> peter1138: pikka decided they were a BAD FEATURE and removed them
14:02:24  <peter1138> :(
14:02:27  <peter1138> I miss them.
14:02:39  <Eddi|zuHause> i didn't understand the reasoning either
14:02:50  <peter1138> Perhaps we should've had separate volume controls for different things, like other games...
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14:04:47  <Eddi|zuHause> what? modern UI?
14:05:27  <andythenorth> volume per train? o_O
14:05:47  <peter1138> Don't be silly.
14:06:21  <peter1138> Master, UI, ambient, running?
14:06:23  <Eddi|zuHause> volume per levelcrossing
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14:06:41  <peter1138> HONK! HONK! volume
14:06:56  <Eddi|zuHause> *dingdingding*
14:10:52  <andythenorth> new menu for choosing the sound effect, per vehicle
14:11:01  <andythenorth> or via ctrl-click :P
14:11:34  <andythenorth> oh dear
14:11:42  <andythenorth> and we only just switched to GitHub too :(
14:11:44  <m3henry> tracker style interface for configuring sounds
14:11:53  <andythenorth> now where will we move to?
14:12:29  <m3henry> As I understand it, you have the rsources for self-hosting
14:12:37  <m3henry> resources*
14:12:42  <andythenorth> nope
14:13:28  <Eddi|zuHause> err, the move to github was partly because of getting away from self-hosting
14:14:42  <m3henry> Well bitbucket is popular
14:14:48  <andythenorth> no free git
14:15:17  <andythenorth> or if there is, I couldn't find it :)
14:18:08  <LordAro> gitlab is nice
14:18:14  <LordAro> as i said from the start :p
14:18:57  <m3henry> At work we intended to host a GitLab server, but never got around to it. I personally hosted Gogs
14:20:06  <andythenorth> LordAro: can you find the gitlab 'Community' edition on their site?
14:20:16  <andythenorth> it's referenced as free for open source, but I can't find the plan
14:20:41  <andythenorth> peter1138: I'll try building this later
14:20:46  <andythenorth> ping me if I forget :P
14:21:44  <peter1138> github is nice.
14:22:04  <peter1138> Don't have any issue with the news myself.
14:22:29  <andythenorth> tbh, microsoft are currently tyhe
14:22:33  <andythenorth> the winning tech company
14:23:01  <Eddi|zuHause> it's fine, while they are still in "embrace" mode
14:23:03  <andythenorth> Apple have stacked it into the cliff, Google is Evil, and Amazon is Amazon
14:23:28  <Eddi|zuHause> but it definitely won't stay this way
14:23:58  <Eddi|zuHause> if trump doesn't burn everything down, microsoft will in 5 years...
14:24:13  <LordAro> andythenorth: ?
14:24:28  <andythenorth> nah, that's not SaaS
14:24:47  <LordAro> oh, you mean the site itself
14:25:10  <andythenorth> gitlab SaaS looks commercial
14:25:21  <andythenorth> the free version is relatively limited (fair enough)
14:25:43  <LordAro> wait, what do you mean?
14:25:49  <LordAro> ?
14:26:15  <andythenorth>
14:26:48  <LordAro> yeah, see above
14:27:51  <m3henry> Would you intend to move the building in to the CI?
14:28:10  <peter1138> gitlab smells.
14:28:19  * andythenorth is confused
14:29:21  * LordAro is confused about andythenorth's confusion
14:30:23  <andythenorth> is there a way to have a free license for an organisation on gitlab>
14:30:25  <andythenorth> ?
14:30:50  <LordAro> isn't it just the same as github? you create one
14:30:59  <m3henry> What about GNU Savannah?
14:31:10  <peter1138> All the plans mention DevOps. Are they all hipsters?
14:31:15  <LordAro> yes
14:31:19  <LordAro> m3henry: booooo
14:31:34  <peter1138> github is fine, it's not going anywhere yet :p
14:31:47  <LordAro> also that
14:32:11  <andythenorth> I just think we'll have more 'github is evil' rage quits from potential contributors
14:32:16  <andythenorth> more than we already had
14:32:20  <peter1138> Fuck them.
14:32:26  <andythenorth> neatly put
14:32:36  <andythenorth> ok moving on
14:33:15  <Eddi|zuHause> tbh, i haven't seen any evidence that the other "cloud" storages are any less evil
14:33:42  <andythenorth> Eddi|zuHause: we're supposed to host our own, in a bedrom, on ADSl
14:33:47  <andythenorth> because that's provably not evil
14:33:55  <andythenorth> right
14:34:28  <andythenorth> and we should build our own hardware too
14:34:46  <andythenorth> because government opens hardware shipments of servers and networking gear
14:34:50  <andythenorth> and inserts invisible malware
14:35:02  <Eddi|zuHause> that is definitely a thing that actually happened :p
14:35:05  <andythenorth> it is
14:35:06  <andythenorth> yes
14:35:59  <andythenorth> unrelated, there is a great write up of Stuxnet recently
14:36:05  <Eddi|zuHause> but it's not the primary reason why "closed" hardware is a bad idea
14:36:32  <andythenorth> oh here we go
14:36:49  <andythenorth> it's very interesting
14:37:25  <Eddi|zuHause> i'm half sure i heard a talk about that
14:38:26  <andythenorth> BBL
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15:05:27  <m3henry> G'day
15:05:59  <Alberth> we switch to github, en promotly microsoft caquires github????!!!
15:06:05  <Alberth> *acquires
15:06:24  <Alberth> and  *promptly
15:06:40  <m3henry> and *then ?
15:07:03  <peter1138> We were obviously the deciding factor, yes.
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15:28:48  <FLHerne> Hm
15:29:08  <FLHerne> As pointed out by someone on Reddit, there are no Debian Stretch builds
15:29:15  <FLHerne> Probably should be
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16:03:20  <LordAro> FLHerne: there's no nightly at all at the moment
16:03:24  <LordAro> nightlies*
16:03:38  <LordAro> ubuntu builds are similarly broken due to the ICU issue
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16:56:19  <peter1138> Yeah, we don't have *any* builds at the moment :p
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16:58:23  <andythenorth> maybe that's a thing :P
17:01:11  <andythenorth> Eddi|zuHause: is the idea something like: sandbox sub-consists, don't let newgrf read vars outside them?
17:02:18  <Eddi|zuHause> something like that, yes
17:04:41  <andythenorth> no more liveries based on lead engine eh :)
17:04:52  <andythenorth> or would we just sandbox cb36 & friends?
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17:05:36  <Eddi|zuHause> depends :p
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17:07:04  <andythenorth> gets interesting if consist templates is ever a thing :P
17:07:16  <andythenorth> I am -1 on all the shunting stuff for my games, but it's pretty neat
17:07:53  <Eddi|zuHause> i'm just afraid it won't be nearly as flexible as the feature that exists in my head
17:08:28  <andythenorth> somehow, consists templates are the same thing as shunting :P
17:08:36  <andythenorth> there's just an implementation detail about splitting at stations :P
17:10:09  <andythenorth> peter1138: dunno what I did wrong, but 6803 seems to compile for me
17:10:52  <andythenorth> does this diff look right?
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17:20:52  <Wolf01> o/(
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17:39:41  <andythenorth> hi Wolf01
17:39:46  <andythenorth> and others
17:41:18  <andythenorth> so my concerns here are (1) 64 types is untested (afaik), rest of NRT is pretty well tested (2) do we have to have a bunfight about 'is 64 a good idea' (can we not?)
17:45:32  <Wolf01> The problem is: how 64 types will integrate with BGT?
17:49:38  <andythenorth> wonderfully
17:50:10  <andythenorth> also, with 64 types, can we have non-buildable types, to bridge the compatibility crap? o_O
17:50:44  <Wolf01> That's another story, I already asked that saturday
17:51:51  <Wolf01> so, it's true then
17:53:49  <andythenorth> it's not April 1
17:59:49  <LANJesus> how long until search is powered by bing?
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18:44:28  <peter1138> andythenorth, well, it's a diff, but... contains other stuff.
18:45:05  <peter1138> andythenorth, if you did git diff master, then it would be reverting changes that are in master but not the branch.
18:45:44  <peter1138> BGT?
18:46:47  <Wolf01> ButGroundTypes
18:54:05  <peter1138> Why would it not?
18:54:57  <Wolf01> It shouldn't be a problem
18:55:06  <peter1138> I mean, you're probably right, it's all unlikely to get in
18:55:57  <glx> Wolf01: there's even 2 links to blog posts when you visit github
18:56:38  <Wolf01> Yeah, I noticed them after the usual RSS reading
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18:58:36  <Tony> Anyone online?
18:59:07  <nielsm> yes
19:04:08  <andythenorth> peter1138: well 6803 does compile for me :P I am on OS X 10.12, CF claims to be 10.9
19:04:11  <peter1138> Yes but everyone's too busy moaning about Github
19:04:14  <andythenorth> just wondering if I'm wrong
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19:33:51  <LANJesus> meh stfu about MSFT acquisition. there's nothing you can do except petition them to not be dicks about it
19:34:05  <LANJesus> though if they are dicks, everyone will just flee to gitlab or something
19:39:47  <peter1138> Quite
19:40:56  <nielsm> I think it'll be more interesting how many of the internal developers on github stay
19:41:25  <nielsm> if half the team behind it leaves or are moved elsewhere, that's more likely to cause trouble
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19:52:26  <Neon> Don't know if you can help me with this. We have installed FIRS 3, just started a new server with EXTREME economy and some train trailers appear to be for different cargos. E.g. the oil tanker transports bauxite and the wood truck clay. We only have zbase and FIRS 3 installed. No other mods. Is there a possibility to switch cargo or something?
19:53:18  <Wolf01> You need a trainset compatible with firs
19:53:21  <Wolf01> Blame andythenorth
19:53:28  <ST2> and RV's too
19:54:15  <ST2> shhh, dnt blame andythenorth... or he'll break FIRS again :D
19:54:43  <Neon> Do you happen to know a trainset working with FIRS?
19:54:58  <V453000> NUTS :P
19:54:59  <Wolf01> UKRS
19:55:12  <Neon> Will we have to start a new game?
19:55:17  <Wolf01> Yes
19:55:18  <ST2> standard: OpenGFX+trains - or Iron Horse
19:57:58  <Neon> Can you recommend me one? :P
19:58:22  <Neon> I see that NUTS adds some crazy stuff?!
19:59:14  <V453000> :d
19:59:23  <V453000> NUTS master race
19:59:53  <Wolf01> That is biased :>
20:00:02  <V453000> impossible
20:00:18  <V453000> 100% objective, was on TV verified info
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20:00:51  <Neon> OpenGFX+ is more near to TTD defaults?
20:01:43  <Wolf01> Yes
20:02:04  <andythenorth>  V453000 fake news
20:02:24  <V453000> propaganda 101
20:03:19  <Neon> Thank you for your quick help. I'm happy this channel is still active.
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20:35:52  <peter1138> Hmm
20:36:16  <peter1138> identifier "SAFEGUARD_DO_NOT_USE_THIS_METHOD" is undefined
20:36:27  <peter1138> I wonder what method that is, though.
20:43:26  <peter1138> calloc
20:44:58  <glx> don't use it :)
20:45:27  <peter1138> I'm not!
20:45:43  <peter1138> I'm trying to compile PR 6798
20:46:03  <peter1138> (Which also doesn't use it, but triggers the error)
20:47:07  <michi_cc> What strange compiler are you using? MSVC 2017 seems fine :)
20:48:29  <glx> 2015 is ok too
20:48:31  <peter1138> I'm using MSVC 2017.
20:49:04  <peter1138> Says it's compiling string.cpp
20:49:12  <peter1138> But doesn't give a line number.
20:49:18  <peter1138> Well, it does.
20:49:26  <peter1138> File xlocale, line 697.
20:49:41  <peter1138> c:\Program Files (x86)\Microsoft Visual Studio17\Community\VC\Tools\MSVC.12.25827\include\xlocale
20:49:44  <peter1138> o_O
20:50:51  <Wolf01> It loaded base libraries?
20:50:54  <Neon> How can we set what kind of cargo the train carriages can carry?
20:51:14  <peter1138> Click on the refit button.
20:51:44  <michi_cc> peter1138: That's not the current toolset, check if you're running version 15.7.3.
20:52:18  <Neon> peter1138: Where is it? :(
20:52:47  <glx> in the vehicle view Neon
20:52:53  <Neon> Got it.
20:53:40  <peter1138> michi_cc, well, okay, I'll update. But it compiles fine before these changes o_O
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21:00:13  <Wolf01> 'night
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21:00:18  <andythenorth> bye
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21:00:26  <michi_cc> peter1138: Dos moving the include from string.cpp:599 to the top help?
21:00:41  <peter1138> Can't test, it's upgrading :p
21:15:53  <peter1138> c:\Program Files (x86)\Microsoft Visual Studio17\Community\VC\Tools\MSVC.14.26428\include\xlocale
21:16:08  <peter1138> Same error, in that version.
21:16:26  <peter1138> Running 15.7.3 now.
21:17:40  <peter1138> Yeah, if the include is before safeguards.h it'll compile.
21:17:44  <peter1138> Which seems right.
21:22:20  <michi_cc> I still have no idea how my Visual Studio compiles it just fine.
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21:24:47  <peter1138> Also I get another error but that's DMUSIC related, not this PR.
21:25:09  <peter1138> And that might be something to do with the useful package.
21:25:22  <peter1138> Severity	Code	Description	Project	File	Line	Suppression State
21:25:22  <peter1138> Warning	C4005	'FACILITY_DIRECTMUSIC': macro redefinition (compiling source file ..\src\music\dmusic.cpp)	openttd	c:\users\peter\source\openttd essentials\shared\include\dmerror.h	12
21:25:31  <peter1138> Ooops, that pasted badly :(
21:25:57  <michi_cc> peter1138: Yeah, it shoul work if you just remove all directmusic files that come from ottd-useful. The rewritten code needs SDK headers only.
21:26:23  <peter1138> It still compiles but yeah
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21:26:38  <peter1138> I figured it was something like that.
21:27:33  <michi_cc> The dmerror.h we ship is some crazy old version. We had an #undef for that macro to remove the warning, but the current SDK dmerror.h does not define the macro, so the #undef causes it to fail.
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21:28:50  <peter1138> I think TrueBrain was working on just not needing that thing
21:34:01  <ST2> daaaamn: peter1138 (#3862/  <<-- that's a really weird ons :D
21:37:20  <peter1138> What's weird?
21:37:33  <ST2> nothing, nothing :D
21:38:20  <peter1138> I don't get to control what weird ass stuff my ISP does for rdns :p
21:38:22  <ST2> I just needed some chats with my friendly search engine :D
21:38:53  <ST2> imo, that's the perfect one - confuses the hell :D
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21:43:07  <peter1138> Well it seems to has valid forward and reverse DNS, but I have no idea why they've done it like that o_O
21:43:15  <peter1138> s/has/have/
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22:18:35  <peter1138> michi_cc, all seems to work. Wonder what TrueBrain makes of it :p
22:19:01  <peter1138> My exe is only 5.5MB now.
22:20:38  <Eddi|zuHause> what? modern games must be at least 60GB and ship a 1.5GB patch every month
22:20:48  <peter1138> ikr
22:21:02  <Eddi|zuHause> at least they don't need a spec
22:21:06  <peter1138> :D
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