Log for #openttd on 10th June 2018:
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05:04:02  <themanhimself> is anyone willing to play a game with me?
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06:28:45  <andythenorth> o/
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06:44:58  <Alberth> o/
06:52:29  <themanhimself> o/
06:53:08  <themanhimself> actually can high fives be three way?
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07:54:59  <nielsm> morning, too
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09:06:04  <nielsm> which is better?
09:06:06  <nielsm>
09:06:11  <nielsm>
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09:08:33  <Wolf01> o/
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09:41:49  <LordAro> nielsm: probably 2
09:41:53  <LordAro> mo
09:41:55  <LordAro> imo*
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09:47:39  <Wolf01> Mmmh why they do this... Updating a purchased route, I have a pro account do download at max speed etc, limit of 200MB/day -> broken route because I hit the limit
09:53:36  <nielsm> is DOS still a fully supported platform?
09:54:16  <nielsm> I think there are a few platforms that lack a GetTime() implementation to get milliseconds (or greater) precision timestamps
09:54:46  <LordAro> DOS doesn't have networking
09:54:50  <LordAro> beyond that...
09:54:57  <LordAro> oh, and no one's tried in months :p
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09:55:21  <nielsm> does a C++11 compiler even exist that can target DOS?
09:56:06  <nielsm> oh
09:56:10  <LordAro> mingw in theory
09:56:20  <nielsm> allegro_v.cpp line 464, there's the GetTime() for DOS too
09:56:51  <nielsm> should move it to a separate source file really
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11:59:45  <nielsm> scenario editor really needs a button to toggle "city" status of towns imo
12:05:33  <Wolf01> Scenario editor needs to be ported to 2018
12:06:43  <nielsm> and also a better tree brush and landscaping brushes
12:09:06  <Wolf01> I was working on those, bud andythenorth distracted me :P
12:09:09  <Wolf01> *but
12:09:20  <andythenorth> oops
12:10:34  <Wolf01> <- nielsm, you might want to try this
12:12:07  <Wolf01> andythenorth: did you see the new lego big train (moc)?
12:12:29  <Wolf01>
12:12:59  <andythenorth> yes
12:13:01  <andythenorth> impressive
12:13:16  <andythenorth> not really my kind of thing, but lot of work there
12:14:51  <Wolf01> I can't understand if the wheels flange piece is custom or what piece is
12:16:48  <andythenorth> he says it's lego only
12:17:37  <Wolf01> Yeah, but I don't recognize it
12:21:13  <andythenorth> me neither
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14:23:57  <FLHerne> Wolf01: Is it something like this?
14:24:30  <FLHerne> No, much bigger
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15:00:10  <m1cr0man> Hello. Is there a way to change the cost of placing rails either via an addon or the game settings? I want to try a different train set than UKRS2 but I want to keep the much more expensive rails
15:03:20  <nielsm> there is the BaseCosts Mod 5.0, it lets you adjust the cost factor of everything individually
15:03:29  <m1cr0man> perfect, thanks :)
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15:18:13  <andythenorth> hmm
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15:44:33  <nielsm> I was just reminded that C++11 has std::chrono in, and it might actually be the best approach to all fine time measuring needs... is it okay to use? :)
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16:04:30  <planetmaker_> @logs
16:04:30  <DorpsGek> planetmaker_:
16:04:35  <planetmaker_> hi hi
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16:15:13  <Alberth> o/
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18:16:14  <ANIKHTOS> hello all
18:16:15  <Alberth> o/
18:24:29  <ANIKHTOS> i will try to write soem code albarth
18:24:52  <ANIKHTOS> but c++ is the first time i see thelanguage i used visual basic in the past
18:24:57  <ANIKHTOS> and all seems a bit strange
18:24:58  <Alberth> nice, what part are you thinking to extend?
18:25:13  <ANIKHTOS> the day length lol
18:25:26  <Alberth> haha, version  N+1  :)
18:25:51  <ANIKHTOS> well i am stil confused readign the code
18:26:02  <ANIKHTOS> i get the functiosn  but nto get them fully
18:26:14  <Alberth> you may want to read some patches, and try to compile them, and play with them to get an idea of how they look and feel
18:26:51  <Alberth> that's normal, it's 300+K lines of code, not something you can understand in a few weeks
18:27:11  <ANIKHTOS> 	/* check if we entered a new month? */ 	bool new_month = ymd.month != _cur_month;
18:27:19  <ANIKHTOS> id do not get hwo it works lol
18:27:30  <Alberth> :o
18:27:53  <ANIKHTOS> i got the increase fo ticks
18:27:58  <ANIKHTOS> the chekc of fractiont o new day
18:28:02  <ANIKHTOS> the increase fo day
18:28:11  <ANIKHTOS> and in new month i do nto get it
18:28:25  <Alberth> not that difficult,  _cur_month is likely the current month we saw last, and  ymd.month the "real" new month
18:28:57  <ANIKHTOS> well it seems i feel to grasp the ymd
18:29:17  <ANIKHTOS> fell =fell
18:29:23  <ANIKHTOS> fail
18:29:54  <Alberth> so if (ymd.motn != _cur_month), you have a new month
18:30:16  <Alberth> sorry, my network connection tends to die every now and then
18:30:52  <ANIKHTOS> i have plan soem code so far
18:30:57  <ANIKHTOS> but stuck in new month
18:31:21  <nielsm> that line compares ymd.month with _cur_month and sets new_month to true if they're different, false if they're equal
18:32:15  <ANIKHTOS> thanks nielsm
18:32:16  <Alberth> ymd is a variable of type YearMonthDay, defined at line 103 of date_type.h
18:32:38  <ANIKHTOS> i am changing date.cpp
18:33:26  <Alberth> no idea what's in it, but it sounds like a useful file to modifiy :)
18:33:50  <ANIKHTOS> there is all i want to change
18:33:59  <Alberth> how convenient :)
18:34:06  <ANIKHTOS> the increasement in day month year and the call outs for dailly motnhly yearly cahnges
18:34:34  <ANIKHTOS> the trick is i do nto want to break compatibility and rewrite everythign lol
18:35:16  <Alberth> at that point better start openttd2  :)
18:35:36  <ANIKHTOS> i will nto break comaptibility
18:35:47  <ANIKHTOS> i jsut need soem better understadign of c++
18:35:48  <Alberth> sounds like the better plan to me :)
18:36:08  <Alberth> I'd say spend a few weeks learning c++
18:36:28  <ANIKHTOS> sugest a godo readign material??
18:37:16  <nielsm> I haven't seen any recommendations of any online courses, all recommendations I see are for "real" books
18:37:56  <nielsm> can't get around the fact that C++ is a very complex language
18:38:32  <ANIKHTOS> well so far i understand some code
18:38:37  <ANIKHTOS> and some is still headache
18:39:53  <Alberth> that's a normal state of mind for something so big and complicated as openttd source code
18:40:21  <ANIKHTOS> lol i only see 314 lines
18:40:30  <ANIKHTOS> and i have problem
18:41:20  <ANIKHTOS> the code is always brek into small files?? or there is a big file with all the code??
18:41:30  <Alberth> you're fighting 3 things currently, learning c++, understanding the code, changing the code for something that several others failed to get working
18:41:58  <nielsm> the code is split into multiple files since there's so much of it
18:42:06  <ANIKHTOS> soem call outs from this date.cpp are for functions in another files but it wll be pain int he ass to fidn where exactt hey are to see what they do
18:43:02  <ANIKHTOS> i think it is too much split
18:43:13  <ANIKHTOS> why we have so many date files?/ and not 1 huge??
18:43:17  <Alberth> grep is your friend, or an IDE that understands C++ code
18:43:33  <nielsm> are you on windows or something else?
18:43:39  <ANIKHTOS> windows
18:43:48  <nielsm> what are you using for editor/compiler/IDE?
18:43:53  <nielsm> visual studio or something else?
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18:44:26  <ANIKHTOS> have nto download anything yet
18:44:36  <Alberth> there is more structure in the files than you think
18:44:37  <nielsm> visual studio has a lot of good tools to help navigating the code
18:45:17  <ANIKHTOS> well i ahve a problem of space iam not in home , my laptop is full so i need a programm that will take the niniest space to install
18:45:25  <ANIKHTOS> and i mean the tiniest i ahve 500mb free
18:45:42  <Alberth> date_type.h defines the date data types, date_func.h declares the functions used at other places, should implement the functions in date_func.h
18:46:04  <nielsm> if you have that little space you're in bad luck
18:46:16  <nielsm> it takes almost 400 MB of space for me to just compile openttd
18:46:31  <Alberth> *gui* stuff is for the window system, probably just displaying the date or so
18:46:38  <nielsm> that's not including the multiple GB taken by visual studio installation
18:46:44  <ANIKHTOS> i have a ramdrive of 2 gb
18:46:46  <Alberth> and the git repo
18:47:05  <ANIKHTOS> so i can have free temp space of 2.5gb free but not for storage more for workign space
18:48:05  <Alberth> one source set + repo + build in it, is near 850MB
18:48:36  <ANIKHTOS> i can find the work space
18:48:36  <Alberth> not doing really much
18:49:26  <Alberth> everything openttd-develop is 19G, but that has a lot of history and experiments
18:50:28  <ANIKHTOS> ouch lot of space
18:50:40  <nielsm> really, get 10 GB free harddisk space before you get started
18:51:01  <ANIKHTOS> if i was hoem i could but since i am on travel
18:51:06  <ANIKHTOS> thats nto an option for now
18:51:50  <ANIKHTOS> okey when i fidn the free space
18:52:00  <ANIKHTOS> what free programs i can use??
18:52:12  <nielsm> I recommend visual studio 2017 community edition
18:52:24  <ANIKHTOS> its free??
18:52:25  <nielsm> yes
18:52:46  <ANIKHTOS> so strange to hear the words visual studio and free at same sentence
18:53:10  <nielsm> they've had the community edition for free for many years now
18:53:25  <nielsm> it has all the pro features, you're just not allowed to use it for paid work
18:55:42  <Wolf01> <nielsm> it has all the pro features <- nope
18:56:10  <ANIKHTOS> is there a zip of all the files of ottd??
18:56:18  <ANIKHTOS> or i will have to downlaod 1 by 1??
18:56:23  <Wolf01> Git
18:56:47  <Wolf01> The client is even integrated into VS
18:57:16  <Alberth> github allows download of a zip, but you're far better off by cloning the git repository
18:57:49  <nielsm> if you aren't used to working with version control (or just git for that matter) that's another hurdle too...
18:57:53  <nielsm> it's not easy :(
18:57:53  <Alberth> openttd is a moving target, and git can integrate changes with your modifications for you
18:57:56  <andythenorth> we all start somewhere eh :P
18:58:00  <nielsm> yeah
18:58:08  <andythenorth> but this is learning to swim by jumping off cliff into water
18:58:24  <andythenorth> C++, git, editor, compiling, openttd
18:58:27  <ANIKHTOS> not a problem
18:58:30  <Wolf01> andythenorth: may be this?
18:58:31  <ANIKHTOS> i will die young
18:58:37  <andythenorth> glory
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18:58:56  <Alberth> yep, learning c++ first, adding some git for fun and profit, then try to hack openttd
18:59:20  <ANIKHTOS> well alberth that woudl a normal person do
18:59:22  <andythenorth> Wolf01: could be, did you count the studs? o_O
18:59:23  <ANIKHTOS> but i am a bit odd
18:59:34  <andythenorth> Wolf01: looks very plausible
18:59:36  <ANIKHTOS> so i will hack ottd while learnign c int he process of hacking
18:59:37  <ANIKHTOS> lol
18:59:57  <andythenorth> if you learn git basics fast, you will have a better time
19:00:04  <andythenorth> and be less frustrated
19:00:11  <andythenorth> :)
19:00:13  <Alberth> and move faster forward
19:00:30  <glx> rule one: rebasing is better than merge
19:00:39  <andythenorth> glx: that is highly subjective by project
19:00:47  <andythenorth> rebasing is 'banned' where I work
19:00:50  <ANIKHTOS> okey what is git??
19:00:53  <nielsm> IMO first steps would be 1) install VS2017  2) clone openttd repository  3) get it to compile and work  4) try to make some basic changes and get them to compile
19:01:07  <glx> andythenorth: but you are many to work on the same branch I guess
19:01:18  <andythenorth> ANIKHTOS: you want direct explanation, or "it's like xyz" explanation?
19:01:32  <Alberth>  <- ANIKHTOS:  git
19:01:33  <ANIKHTOS> is it a programm?/
19:01:35  <andythenorth> glx: we make individual feature branches
19:01:43  <andythenorth> ANIKHTOS: it's a program
19:01:51  <Alberth> and a life-style :p
19:01:53  <andythenorth> do you use anything like dropbox?
19:02:08  <Alberth> and a religion :p
19:02:26  <nielsm> it's a directed acyclic graph
19:02:38  <ANIKHTOS> git is linux kernel ??
19:02:45  <andythenorth> any excuse to say DAG nielsm :)
19:02:49  <LordAro> andythenorth: bad
19:02:53  <andythenorth> I feel 10% smarter when I can say DAG
19:02:56  <Alberth> it was developed by the authors of the linux kernel
19:03:23  <Alberth> but it's generic, and used for many other progjects
19:03:35  <Alberth> in fact, it's the defacto standard VCS
19:03:40  <nielsm> git is a program for managing source code for programs
19:03:51  <nielsm> to keep track of who changed what, when
19:03:57  <Alberth> why
19:04:07  <nielsm> and make sure multiple people can work on the same project at the same time
19:05:06  <ANIKHTOS> okey a programm that helps many peopel work at same  programm to develop
19:05:42  <Alberth> yes
19:05:51  <ANIKHTOS> great
19:05:57  <ANIKHTOS> we are goign somewhere now
19:06:06  <ANIKHTOS> when you say clone you mean download every single file??
19:06:18  <ANIKHTOS> or there is somewhere i a link tto downalod all in 1 go??
19:06:19  <nielsm> "git clone" is a command that downloads everything
19:06:31  <Alberth> every single change of every file ever done in the past 10+ years
19:06:37  <nielsm> a copy of all the current files, and also the data to be able to turn back history and see how all of the files looked in the past
19:06:57  <Alberth> and yes, "git clone" does that all in one command
19:07:02  <ANIKHTOS> and that is 19gb
19:07:11  <ANIKHTOS> ouch
19:07:13  <Alberth> no, about 800
19:07:16  <Alberth> MB
19:07:38  <ANIKHTOS> is there a free git programm for windowns??
19:07:57  <andythenorth> add 'learning shell' to ANIKHTOS list :)
19:08:23  <ANIKHTOS> lol andy add!!!!!!!!!!!! no no thank you
19:08:33  <Alberth> several git clients exist for windows
19:09:11  <Alberth> but I don't know, as I use the plain git command-line (ie the "shell" as andy puts it)
19:09:27  <ANIKHTOS> you use linux??
19:09:36  <nielsm> I think visual studio includes a basic git client
19:09:40  <Wolf01> <Wolf01> The client is even integrated into VS <-
19:09:49  <nielsm> you can also use github's client
19:10:03  <Alberth> yep, I use Linux
19:10:08  <glx> there's git for windows too
19:10:25  <nielsm> yeah msys git
19:11:00  <glx> I use github desktop and git for windows
19:11:19  <glx> and msvc too
19:11:58  <ANIKHTOS>
19:12:03  <ANIKHTOS> this oen will do??
19:12:24  <LordAro> probably better to install msys2, then install git from within it
19:12:26  <glx>
19:12:30  <glx> I use this
19:12:36  <Alberth> just try it, if it doesn't work for you, find another (btter) one
19:13:02  <Alberth> repeat until you run out of programs, or you find a working tool for you
19:13:03  <glx> and there's a nice extension for powershell too
19:14:39  <ANIKHTOS> i can not unzip it
19:14:40  <ANIKHTOS> lol
19:14:49  <ANIKHTOS> damn windown 7
19:15:36  <andythenorth> should I buy this tank?
19:16:04  <Alberth> as long as it's virtual money, sure
19:16:11  <glx>
19:16:29  <__ln__> it's probably not real, it looks rendered.
19:16:35  <Alberth> unless you're buying real metal, in which case you need a big parking spot for it
19:18:17  <andythenorth> it's real money :P
19:18:55  <ANIKHTOS> its so sad when you want to learn somethign but you need to learn so many other thigns first before to learn that
19:19:29  <andythenorth> yak shaving
19:19:30  <andythenorth>
19:20:20  <Alberth> :D
19:20:52  <Alberth> I think it's a great thing, so many new things to explore, and play with!
19:21:07  <ANIKHTOS> yes i am playing 3 different solutions
19:21:45  <ANIKHTOS> i think i am in he mode to overcomplicate thign snow
19:23:37  <ANIKHTOS> okey 1 question the game time more or less  does everythign in days??
19:23:45  <Alberth> don't try to do everything at the same time, it's just too much to grasp all without getting totally confused
19:23:59  <ANIKHTOS> i see the engines are set on days
19:24:05  <ANIKHTOS> the date is set on days
19:24:32  <Alberth> most stuff runs in terms of days
19:24:46  <Alberth> except for animations mostly
19:24:59  <ANIKHTOS> apart animation
19:25:12  <ANIKHTOS> is anything that will check ticks??
19:25:56  <Alberth> I don't know, never looked into how time works in openttd
19:26:25  <ANIKHTOS> the montly update for industry prodction
19:26:49  <ANIKHTOS> is done every new month?? or every 30 days from the date you start the game??
19:26:53  <Alberth> I think I know around 30-40%, have some ideas about 40%, and no clue whatsoever on the remaining parts :)
19:27:15  <ANIKHTOS> well thats  more than me
19:27:17  <ANIKHTOS> :-)
19:27:23  <Alberth> industry production at least is monthly
19:27:43  <ANIKHTOS> i knwo its montly but when it reset
19:27:45  <Alberth> you haven't looked at openttd code for 7 years yet :)
19:27:48  <ANIKHTOS> at 1st of every month??
19:28:16  <ANIKHTOS> well i kow it existed for a decade
19:28:20  <ANIKHTOS> that count?? :p
19:28:42  <Alberth> there is probably more running on a monthly rhytm
19:29:04  <ANIKHTOS> there is a new month call
19:29:15  <ANIKHTOS> that call many fucntions
19:29:25  <Alberth> to know, find the relevant variables, and see how they are used
19:30:30  <ANIKHTOS> #include "stdafx.h" #include "network/network.h" #include "network/network_func.h" #include "currency.h" #include "window_func.h" #include "settings_type.h" #include "date_func.h" #include "vehicle_base.h" #include "rail_gui.h" #include "linkgraph/linkgraph.h" #include "saveload/saveload.h"  #include "safeguards.h"
19:30:45  <ANIKHTOS> this are all the files that are connected with functiosn with thsi one??
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19:32:12  <ANIKHTOS> IndustryMonthlyLoop() where i will find this function??
19:32:22  <nielsm> .h and .hpp files are "headers", they declare data types and functions
19:32:27  <andythenorth> you need a way to search all files in src
19:32:31  <andythenorth> my text editor does it
19:32:35  <andythenorth> so I search for function names
19:32:38  <nielsm> and .cpp files actually contain the implementing code
19:33:00  <nielsm> (which is not entirely correct with C++ templates and inline functions in classes and more)
19:34:38  <ANIKHTOS> your text editor search multiple files??
19:34:59  <nielsm> yes
19:35:19  <nielsm> in visual studio I'd right click the function name and run "find all references"
19:35:34  <nielsm> it'll find all places that name is used, either called or defined
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19:38:28  <ANIKHTOS> i iwll create a frankestein in the end of code
19:39:36  <nielsm> everyone learns best from mistakes :)
19:39:43  <Alberth> a proper C++ IDE allows jumping to the functions directly
19:40:20  <Alberth> really, invest the time to learn visual studio and c++
19:40:46  <ANIKHTOS> i am learnign c++ slowly
19:40:50  <ANIKHTOS> i see the syntax
19:40:58  <ANIKHTOS> and then search for what it means
19:41:11  <ANIKHTOS> and slowly i learn C++
19:41:14  <ANIKHTOS> leanr if statement
19:41:16  <ANIKHTOS> if else
19:41:18  <ANIKHTOS> switch
19:41:21  <LANJesus> in VS can't you also just ctrl+click the method/function names?
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21:22:09  <ANIKHTOS> in the if statement lets say i say if a<5and a=5 what happens then?
21:23:57  <FLHerne> Then it'll never be true
21:24:10  <FLHerne> Same as `if (false) {}`
21:24:42  <FLHerne> (unless `a` is some function call that has side-effects)
21:26:23  <ANIKHTOS> well a is a counter
21:26:53  <ANIKHTOS> to it will run as long as a<5 and when a=5 it will not
21:27:01  <ANIKHTOS> thank you
21:27:17  <FLHerne> Um, sorry
21:27:28  <FLHerne> I misread your question
21:27:59  <FLHerne> But coincidentally, my answer was about right anyway :P
21:28:30  <FLHerne> The common way to do that is usually a for- or while-loop
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21:29:02  <FLHerne> `for (int a = 0; a < 5; ++a) { <do thing with a> }`
21:29:19  <ANIKHTOS> different langiuage handle the <> different when comes to equal
21:29:32  <FLHerne> Hm?
21:29:47  <FLHerne> I don't think I've ever seen a language where < means <=
21:30:00  <FLHerne> (in C++, <= means 'less than or equal')
21:30:41  <ANIKHTOS> i am askign to be in safe side
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21:31:30  <ANIKHTOS> well i think the if in this case i want to use is better
21:31:40  <ANIKHTOS> it will do nothign until it reach the desired value
21:31:57  <ANIKHTOS> where it will reset
21:36:11  <andythenorth> night
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21:56:31  <Wolf01> 'night
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