Log for #openttd on 15th July 2018:
Times are UTC Toggle Colours
00:00:07  *** synchris has quit IRC
00:21:42  *** Thedarkb has joined #openttd
01:05:26  *** Flygon has joined #openttd
02:10:36  *** muffindrake1 has joined #openttd
02:12:30  *** muffindrake has quit IRC
02:21:15  *** HerzogDeXtEr has quit IRC
02:24:12  *** muffindrake1 has quit IRC
02:27:24  *** muffindrake has joined #openttd
02:39:11  *** glx has quit IRC
03:36:06  *** sim-al2 is now known as Guest1158
03:36:08  *** sim-al2 has joined #openttd
03:40:20  *** sim-al2 has quit IRC
03:41:25  *** Guest1158 has quit IRC
04:13:16  *** Supercheese has joined #openttd
04:18:40  *** sim-al2 has joined #openttd
05:30:36  *** Alberth has joined #openttd
05:30:36  *** ChanServ sets mode: +o Alberth
05:30:43  <Alberth> moin
05:54:32  *** andythenorth has joined #openttd
06:09:12  *** KouDy has quit IRC
06:13:23  *** sla_ro|master has joined #openttd
06:16:42  *** Wacko1976_ has quit IRC
06:17:16  *** nielsm has joined #openttd
06:19:54  *** KouDy has joined #openttd
06:20:20  <andythenorth> moin
06:24:07  *** Wacko1976 has joined #openttd
06:26:18  *** rocky113844 has quit IRC
06:34:06  <Alberth> moin
06:45:14  *** snail_UES_ has quit IRC
06:57:46  <andythenorth> Alberth: somewhat
06:57:53  <andythenorth> I'm still splitting out the town cargos
06:58:13  <andythenorth> ideas welcome, I'd rather load it up with too much stuff, then delete some
07:00:56  <Alberth> Warf looks a little lonely :)
07:01:13  <andythenorth> it is
07:01:28  <andythenorth> town industries particularly welcome
07:01:33  <andythenorth> it's a random set of cargos :P
07:01:48  <andythenorth> considering: restaurant, supermarket, department store
07:02:07  <andythenorth> cargos yet to add: furniture, edible oil, some split of goods
07:02:31  <Alberth> Stockyard would need some livestock areas?
07:02:59  <andythenorth> in the sprite?
07:05:09  <Alberth> yes
07:05:23  <andythenorth> yes, I want to redraw it
07:05:31  <andythenorth> it's one monolothic sprite currently
07:05:36  <andythenorth> been on my list for ages :)
07:06:11  <Alberth> bakery seems off-scale wrt to its input, if a bakery is a shop in the city
07:06:34  <andythenorth> the town industries are all just clones of shop currently
07:06:38  <Alberth> could have industrial bakery, and ship food, I guess
07:06:46  <andythenorth> I wondered if food needs to stay
07:06:51  <andythenorth> hotel is weird now
07:06:56  <andythenorth> food is gone
07:07:02  <andythenorth> but not enough inputs for all the types
07:07:14  <Alberth> could have a cake-shop
07:07:27  <andythenorth> fruit + sugar + flour
07:07:32  <andythenorth> or dairy + sugar + flour
07:08:02  <andythenorth> also, I suppose if I add illegal drugs, my kids can't play it :P
07:08:04  <Alberth> (the current bakery), and add bread or so with industrial bakery, although it would make cookies too
07:08:11  <andythenorth> cookie factory
07:08:42  <Alberth> sounds like a fun cargo :p
07:08:51  <Alberth> more toy-land
07:08:54  <andythenorth> I wondered about butchers being deli
07:08:58  <andythenorth> meat + dairy
07:09:00  <andythenorth> dunno how that works
07:09:09  <andythenorth> this is approximately austria-germany-poland
07:09:39  <Alberth> butcher would be fine imho
07:09:48  <andythenorth> slight change, I dropped sulphur
07:09:53  *** Wolf01 has joined #openttd
07:10:15  <andythenorth> potatoes + edible oil -> chip shop?
07:10:37  <Wolf01> Potatoes + diesel = ?
07:10:47  <Alberth> dairy products might include meat though, maybe that's what you meant?
07:10:48  <Wolf01> Oh it's not alchemy
07:10:52  <Alberth> ho Wolf01
07:10:56  <Wolf01> o/
07:10:57  <Alberth> *hi
07:11:06  <andythenorth> Alberth: I was thinking have butchers accept dairy
07:11:07  <andythenorth> maybe
07:11:18  <andythenorth> in UK now butchers sell cheese often
07:11:23  <Wolf01> Mmmmh... alchemy chain
07:11:33  <andythenorth> mmm
07:11:40  <Alberth> here they might accept livestock
07:11:42  <andythenorth> salt could go to food processing plants also
07:11:49  <andythenorth> live chickens?
07:12:08  <andythenorth> I don't think butchers recieve trainloads of salt, so I'll probly ignore that
07:12:14  <Alberth> cows mostly I think, since I live in cow country :p
07:12:17  <Wolf01> Monkey + tool = monkey wrench
07:12:21  <andythenorth> spice?
07:12:29  <andythenorth> imported pepper and stuff
07:12:38  <andythenorth> Wolf01:
07:13:06  <andythenorth> compare :P
07:13:06  <Alberth> spice seems big enough in variety
07:13:07  <Wolf01> Ha!
07:13:29  <Wolf01> A bit more readable
07:13:39  <Alberth> less extreme :p
07:13:54  <Wolf01> Good choice with the grocer's shop
07:14:01  <andythenorth> it's quite extreme
07:14:04  <andythenorth> because on smaller maps
07:14:10  <andythenorth> the game struggles to build the industries :P
07:14:42  <Wolf01> Eh, I play mainly 64
07:14:52  <andythenorth> on 256x512 it's building ~1 of each
07:14:55  <andythenorth> so potentially have to transport across whole map between each
07:14:56  <Wolf01> 64*1024
07:15:37  <Wolf01> It would be cool if the industries can be somewhat in order, so I can start from one end
07:16:23  <Wolf01> Maybe even distinct chains in different parts of the map
07:16:32  <andythenorth> that could be done
07:16:39  <andythenorth> better with GS, but not current GS
07:16:47  <andythenorth> hmm
07:16:56  <andythenorth> so I only have about 50% of the new town industries
07:17:01  <andythenorth> but they're not getting well placed
07:17:07  *** Wacko1976 has quit IRC
07:17:43  <andythenorth> most towns lack most of the shops
07:17:53  <andythenorth> so it's not so much 'city chaos' as 'this town accepts nothing'
07:18:01  <Wolf01> Put a weight for the quantity of industries? Could be useful to have a lot of tertiary industries and fewer primary/secondary
07:18:37  <andythenorth> I can control probability
07:18:51  <andythenorth> but it's relatively limited, and easy to get unintended consequences
07:18:54  <Wolf01> The "number of industries" setting need to be tuned better considering the type of industries and map area
07:19:16  <andythenorth> what's long needed is some better control over creation
07:19:23  <andythenorth> placement can be absolutely controlled
07:19:30  <andythenorth> but not the choice of where to try placing :P
07:19:39  <Wolf01> Or make scenarios, I would like to make a scenario with firs when firs will be finished
07:20:07  <Alberth> no electronic devices?
07:20:38  <Wolf01> Could a scenario contain a GS? It would be a good thing to have a scenario with specific goals
07:20:39  <Alberth> refridgerators, freezers, and tvs?
07:21:02  <andythenorth> household appliances
07:21:10  <andythenorth> steel + plastic + copper
07:21:13  <Alberth> Wolf01: Likely it can, the tutorial has something like that
07:21:54  <andythenorth> my main challenge here is balancing the heavy industry cargos and the town cargos eh
07:22:23  <Alberth> yeah, new version seems to me more 'heavy'
07:22:48  <andythenorth> I could take some detail out of the chemicals chain
07:22:51  <andythenorth> but I like it :P
07:23:01  *** Supercheese has quit IRC
07:23:15  <andythenorth> v3 extreme, everything is over-connected
07:23:37  <Alberth> wouldn't that be more simple?
07:24:06  <andythenorth> it's simpler in some ways, more chance of a supplier + accepter being nearby
07:24:06  <Alberth> less connections would be more difficult, I think
07:24:16  <andythenorth> but cargos are over-demanded, so that's frustrating
07:24:52  <Alberth> clearly a bakery could produce a 3,000 tonnes of bread / month :p
07:24:56  <andythenorth> easy
07:25:06  <andythenorth> bread is quite light though eh
07:25:34  <andythenorth> so goods needs unpicked
07:25:36  <Alberth> I believe 3,000 bread / month
07:25:52  <andythenorth> household chemicals, household appliances
07:26:04  <andythenorth> furniture
07:26:17  <andythenorth> that puts it at 45 cargos total so far
07:26:34  <Alberth> 19 left :p
07:26:39  <andythenorth> I am aiming for 48 :)
07:26:42  <andythenorth> oh paper too
07:27:01  <andythenorth> then building materials needs unpicked maybe
07:27:02  <andythenorth> not sure
07:27:09  <andythenorth> might be fine as a composite
07:27:17  <Alberth> I think it is
07:27:20  <andythenorth> other than 'builders yard' where can building materials go?
07:27:28  <andythenorth> 'construction site' doesn't work
07:27:33  <Alberth> DIY shops :p
07:27:39  <andythenorth> hardware store, already in :)
07:28:20  <andythenorth> I think cement can be dropped back into building materials
07:28:21  <Alberth> construction site as house?
07:28:51  <Alberth> would be nice if you can limit its life time then
07:29:58  <andythenorth> there's no automobile chain here currently
07:30:04  <andythenorth> it's been requested multiple times
07:30:11  <andythenorth> but I don't want it here, so eh :P
07:30:11  <Wolf01> Add more cargos accepted by buildings without making them industries?
07:30:19  <andythenorth> Wolf01: considering it
07:30:33  <andythenorth> but then I have to make a house set separately
07:30:42  <andythenorth> and there's no way to enforce loading it
07:31:27  <Wolf01> If you load it you make use of it, if you don't nothing changes
07:31:48  <Wolf01> And if you load it without firs you can use it with other available cargos
07:32:16  *** synchris has joined #openttd
07:32:36  <Wolf01> Maybe on firs you can detect if it's loaded and enable/disable specific town industries
07:33:56  <andythenorth> can we fund individual houses yet?
07:34:01  <Alberth> I agree automobile chain would not fit here
07:34:56  <Wolf01> <andythenorth> can we fund individual houses yet? <- no, and it would be like a gread addition
07:36:39  <andythenorth> no cement, simpler again
07:37:12  <andythenorth> so do we package milk in aluminium cans?
07:37:20  <andythenorth> something is not right with packaging
07:37:41  <Wolf01> Paper or glass
07:39:17  <andythenorth>  I wonder if packaging is interesting at all
07:39:29  <andythenorth> kind of tedious
07:40:13  <Wolf01> Ha, acs121 throwing knowledge all around :P
07:41:07  <andythenorth> one of the several reasons I quit forums
07:41:27  <Wolf01> Oh you ragequit too?
07:41:32  <andythenorth> yes
07:41:37  <Wolf01> Did you delete all your posts?
07:41:40  <andythenorth> nope
07:41:42  <Wolf01> :P
07:41:47  <andythenorth> Michael sniped one time too many
07:41:56  <andythenorth> I can't be arsed
07:42:21  <andythenorth> I do think forums are pretty toxic now
07:42:41  <andythenorth> I should stop donating eh
07:43:04  *** RafiX2 is now known as RafiX
07:47:07  <andythenorth> anyone want to do the FIRS release announcements? o_O
07:47:21  <andythenorth> it's just a copy-paste from changelog to forum :P
07:47:33  <Wolf01> Ha... nope, YOU do it :P
07:47:57  *** gelignite has joined #openttd
07:47:57  <Wolf01> Limit yourself to only make release announcements and don't reply
07:47:58  <andythenorth> maybe new will handle it
07:52:58  <Wolf01> MMMMMMMMMMMMMmmmmmmmmhh NRT with 2 tram types in a single tile
07:53:15  <Wolf01> Bad wolf, bad wolf
07:54:47  <andythenorth> 'fancy goods'
07:54:55  <andythenorth> 'curiosities'
07:54:59  <andythenorth> 'baubles'
07:55:01  * andythenorth has ideas :P
07:55:38  <Alberth> needful things :p
07:55:43  <andythenorth> hmmm
07:55:47  <Alberth> may end badly though :p
07:55:51  <andythenorth> 'essential luxuries'
07:55:59  <andythenorth> also we don't have 'nightsoil' cargo :P
07:56:15  <andythenorth>
07:56:53  <Alberth> no waste cargo?  has been requested as well :)
07:57:45  <andythenorth> I tried waste
07:57:48  <andythenorth> didn't work at the time
07:57:51  <andythenorth> could restore it
07:58:11  <Alberth> likely it doesn't work indeed, not much you can do with it
07:58:34  <andythenorth> waste -> furnace
07:58:34  <Alberth> mostly sorting it, and then dispatch to various recycle things
07:58:48  <andythenorth> recyclables is there already, I replaced waste with it
07:59:05  <Alberth> so you covered it mostly already
07:59:20  <andythenorth> mostly :)
08:00:25  <Wolf01> Make waste pits, with a stockpile and don't use it, so when full you need to find another industry :P
08:00:40  <andythenorth> hmm
08:00:47  <andythenorth> this is close to needing a play test
08:00:59  <andythenorth> can't decide how long chains should be
08:01:36  <andythenorth> Steeltown is quite brutal, 6 steps to get final cargo out of chain
08:01:53  <andythenorth> and every step is about 75% efficient at best
08:02:08  <andythenorth> so the amount of raw input required is huge
08:02:21  <andythenorth> I don't want that here :P
08:04:30  *** stefino has joined #openttd
08:06:04  <Wolf01> I was reading the shunting topic, I think there is one big thing missing: consists
08:09:22  <stefino> hello all. Is "game tick" constantly long or not? I read that it takes +- 30ms but in case of sound events it looks that it isn't constant. If I have 16tick long sound event (stop vehicle), 16*0,030=0,48s - it would give constant sound track - theoretical. In game it isn't constant.
08:10:00  <nielsm> yes the 30 ms is at "ideal standard speed"
08:10:10  <nielsm> a tick is not a real-time thing but a simulation thing
08:10:31  <nielsm> if the computer is slow ticks can take longer than 30 ms to process and so the game will run slower than real time
08:10:38  <stefino> okay but it has tobe constantly long
08:10:54  <nielsm> there isn't any good way to synchronize a long-running sound to on-screen actions
08:11:23  <nielsm> (also what if the player pauses the game right as the sound has started playing? it keeps playing while nothing is being simulated)
08:12:27  <stefino> no, I don't need to synchonize sound with graphics. I need to make perfect sound loop. First loop ends, second starts.
08:13:07  <nielsm> yeah that's not possible at all
08:14:26  <nielsm> additionally, if the player turns on fast-forward mode you can get ticks taking as little as 2 or 1 ms
08:15:03  <stefino> mmm, that's bad  :/
08:15:17  <nielsm> the sound mixer would need a way to mark a sound as looping so the sound subsystem itself could handle it, but then you run into issues with how to stop it, and the limited number of channels
08:15:41  <stefino> it is funny that there is a possibility to make stopped or running sound events but it is unreal to do it :D
08:16:26  <stefino> doa perfect sound loop
08:21:06  *** Progman has joined #openttd
08:34:08  <andythenorth> potatos
08:34:13  <andythenorth> SPUD or TATO for the label?
08:34:16  <andythenorth> I ruled out CHIP
08:39:12  <Alberth> POTA ?
08:39:20  <nielsm> TATR
08:39:49  <Alberth> RXQW
08:41:57  <andythenorth> POTA is potash already
08:56:29  <andythenorth> but is it extreme? o_O
08:58:07  <Wolf01> It is BIG for sure
08:59:09  <andythenorth> it's less and less connected
08:59:12  <andythenorth> which might be fine
08:59:40  <nielsm> metal workshop/metal fabrication plant -> industrial waste -> recycling depot
09:01:03  <nielsm> hm no make that machine shop -> small output of scrap metal
09:03:28  <nielsm> recycling plant -> scrap plastic -> plastics plant ?
09:05:39  <nielsm> also imo the plastics plant should make raw plastic which can then be processed further at other specialized industries
09:09:32  <andythenorth> yeah
09:09:35  <andythenorth> I wondered
09:09:39  <andythenorth> now I've dropped packaging
09:09:58  <andythenorth> I could restore packaging and have a packaging factory also
09:10:09  <andythenorth> ok
09:10:19  <andythenorth> more ideas welcome, most won't fly but eh
09:12:50  *** stefino has quit IRC
09:13:51  <nielsm> is there a way for an industry to check if another industry of some type is nearby and so if it has a certain level of production/input?
09:14:14  <nielsm> could maybe be interesting if keeping a power plant supplied allowed manufacturing nearby to benefit
09:16:08  <andythenorth> it can check for existence
09:16:09  <nielsm> also can an industry check the size of its associated town (or how much population is within some radius of it)? because recycling depot should really have output depending on the population it supports
09:16:10  <andythenorth> but not supply
09:16:24  <andythenorth> recycling depot does exactly that ;)
09:16:31  <nielsm> ah cool!
09:17:05  <andythenorth> there was a spec for town registers for a while
09:17:07  <nielsm> the documentation should probably say so somewhere
09:17:09  <andythenorth> not sure if it was implemented
09:17:18  <andythenorth> but electricity is best handled by writing to a town register
09:17:23  <andythenorth> power supply 0-16
09:17:30  <andythenorth> then let industry read that
09:20:01  <andythenorth> hmm
09:20:20  <andythenorth> without packaging, the aggriculture chains are very one dimensionals
09:21:16  <nielsm> aluminium + fruit -> cannery
09:21:48  <andythenorth> something like that
09:23:39  <andythenorth> ok BBL
09:23:41  *** andythenorth has quit IRC
09:24:24  <TrueBrain> omg, a spammer on github ... did not expect that! :P
09:42:04  *** Wormnest has joined #openttd
09:42:18  *** Wacko1976 has joined #openttd
09:46:41  *** frosch123 has joined #openttd
09:48:59  *** andythenorth_ has joined #openttd
09:49:24  <andythenorth_> nielsm so fruit + cans = ???? :)
09:49:42  <andythenorth_> food is not in this economy
09:49:48  <nielsm> that's just food
09:49:53  <nielsm> hmm
09:49:59  <nielsm> non-perishable food?
09:50:09  <andythenorth_> canned food?
09:50:32  <nielsm> probably yes
09:50:53  <nielsm> canned food compared to certain other kinds of food can be transported for longer without losing value...
09:51:14  <andythenorth_> +1
09:51:32  <andythenorth_> where do sausages fit in this picture? :p
09:51:50  <nielsm> and then you have surströmming which must be transported for at least 6 months before it has value to deliver!!
09:52:08  <andythenorth_> is that rotten fish?
09:52:12  *** HerzogDeXtEr has joined #openttd
09:52:13  <nielsm> yes
09:52:31  <andythenorth_> Yeah, I might put the fish back in
09:52:35  <Eddi|zuHause> i'm sure that is how they make it, they put it on trucks and drive it around for 6 months
09:52:42  <nielsm> recommended you open the can submerged in a bucket of water, in the middle of a forest, wearing a rebreather
09:53:03  <andythenorth_> I’ve seen the YT videos
09:54:06  <andythenorth_> salt cod?
09:54:21  <andythenorth_> sun-dried tomatos?
09:54:33  <nielsm> well there is the norwegian "linje akvavit", a spirit whose selling point is that the barrels have matured on board a seagoing ship
09:54:36  <Eddi|zuHause> "vegan food"
09:54:58  <andythenorth_> is it weird to not have baked goods?
09:55:09  <andythenorth_> instead bakery is black hole
09:55:39  <Wolf01> If you put bakeries in cities then fine
09:55:42  <andythenorth_> also there are no non-alcoholic drinks
09:56:32  <Eddi|zuHause> water+sugar=soda
09:57:15  <Eddi|zuHause> (+some really minor additives so they can call it "orange")
09:57:19  <andythenorth_> chlorine + soda ash -> waterworks
09:57:27  <Wolf01> And carbonation
09:57:37  <andythenorth_> industrial gases?
09:57:43  <andythenorth_> cryo plant?
09:57:45  <Wolf01> Pollution
09:57:53  <Wolf01> And biters attacks
09:57:57  <Wolf01> Ops wrong game :P
09:58:00  <andythenorth_> sewage -> waterworks
09:58:13  <andythenorth_> pollution is original sim city
09:58:23  <andythenorth_> or was that brownouts?
09:59:10  <andythenorth_> not sure any of this works, industries in town don’t work great :D
09:59:31  <andythenorth_> and nobody needs 1k tonnes of yoghurt per month
09:59:36  <nielsm> paper mill -> paper packaging, paper packaging goes to dairy
09:59:48  <nielsm> and butcher's shop
09:59:51  <andythenorth_> tetrapak?
09:59:57  <nielsm> like that yeah
10:00:01  <andythenorth_> cheese paper
10:00:11  <Eddi|zuHause> i'm fairly sure the version of sim city i played had pollution
10:00:35  <andythenorth_> can I abuse tile acceptance?
10:00:39  <nielsm> I think simcity has always had a more or less abstract simulation of pollution
10:00:56  <andythenorth_> to get 12 cargos into 4x4 supermarket?
10:01:09  <andythenorth_> or does that not work right?
10:01:17  <nielsm> even in the original simcity residential was bad too close to industry
10:01:27  <Eddi|zuHause> i think you'll have trouble putting that large of an industry in a town
10:01:48  <Eddi|zuHause> the acceptance will work, but the industry graph will not be correct
10:02:07  <andythenorth_> hmm
10:02:54  <nielsm> glass works -> bottles -> distillery, dairy, cannery
10:03:15  *** sim-al2 is now known as Guest1169
10:03:16  *** sim-al2 has joined #openttd
10:03:17  <andythenorth_> so 48 cargos or 64? o_O
10:03:32  <Wolf01> Go for 64
10:03:46  <Eddi|zuHause> what if it ends up as 53?
10:03:50  <andythenorth_> I think it’s unwise :p
10:03:57  <Wolf01> You want it extreme
10:03:58  <andythenorth_> eddi my bet is 56
10:04:08  <Wolf01> I bet 63
10:04:25  <andythenorth_> FIRS Unplayable
10:05:13  <andythenorth_> so detergent, or household chemicals?
10:05:20  *** Guest1169 has quit IRC
10:05:50  <andythenorth_> also, medicines, as low weight, high value?
10:06:38  <andythenorth_> glue? from stockyard?
10:07:08  <andythenorth_> toys?
10:07:14  <nielsm> household chemicals is better imo
10:07:16  <Eddi|zuHause> is that actually how that is produced, or just a meme you tell children when they ask where horses go?
10:07:16  <andythenorth_> lego factory
10:07:23  <Wolf01> ^
10:07:33  <nielsm> modern glue is mostly synthetic
10:07:40  <nielsm> polymer based
10:07:45  <andythenorth_> glue is/was often rendered from gelatine
10:07:57  <andythenorth_> sweet factory?
10:08:05  <Eddi|zuHause> gummy bears
10:08:20  <andythenorth_> hah hah I can do something here for toyland fans :)
10:08:31  <Wolf01> Put amusement parks
10:08:44  *** andythen_ has joined #openttd
10:08:46  <Wolf01> With water slides when near of the coasts
10:08:53  <andythen_> big chunk of toyland
10:09:11  <andythen_> cola, batteries, plastic, toys, sugar
10:09:32  <Wolf01> But less toyish
10:09:36  <nielsm> but without the battery farms and sugar mines
10:10:51  <Wolf01> *Industry graph explodes*
10:11:17  <andythen_> tesla are building battery farms, no?
10:11:27  <Wolf01> It's a factory
10:11:44  <nielsm> I don't think the batteries literally grow from the ground :)
10:11:51  <andythen_> are batteries a good cargo?
10:11:59  <nielsm> too specific imo
10:12:01  <Wolf01> But you can make salt and lithium farms
10:12:33  <andythen_> salt is already in....
10:12:46  <Wolf01> Lithium then
10:12:51  <andythen_> lithium is mined?
10:13:02  <Wolf01> Extracted from ponds
10:13:06  <andythen_> electronics factory
10:14:06  <andythen_> but the big question
10:14:15  <andythen_> tractor plant, or not?
10:14:28  <andythen_> try saying it in Russian accent also
10:14:29  <Wolf01> FMSP?
10:14:33  <andythen_> tractor plant
10:14:49  <Wolf01> In mother russia the tractors make you
10:14:52  <andythen_> traktor
10:15:00  <andythen_> currently in
10:15:09  <andythen_> but only accepts steel
10:15:23  <andythen_> vpts, as import?
10:15:26  <Eddi|zuHause> in the 1930s, germany sent "tractor parts" into the soviet union
10:16:03  <Eddi|zuHause> when assembled, those became tanks, that were used to train the german army without technically violating the versailles treaty
10:16:09  <andythen_> lol
10:16:15  <andythen_> etc
10:16:22  *** andythenorth_ has quit IRC
10:16:35  <andythen_> FIRS used to have ‘parts’
10:16:53  <andythen_> maybe it’s time to restore it :p
10:17:06  <Eddi|zuHause> parts of what?
10:17:19  <andythen_> exactly :p
10:17:20  <Alberth> firs?
10:17:21  <Wolf01> Parts.
10:17:28  <andythen_> it didn’t work
10:17:40  <andythen_> but I need conponents now for traktors
10:17:54  <Alberth> every citizen a tractor?
10:17:55  <Eddi|zuHause> so "machine parts"
10:18:02  <andythen_> yes
10:18:05  <Wolf01> Lego parts?
10:18:16  <andythen_> there isn’t room to produce them in detail
10:18:22  <Wolf01> :(
10:18:25  <andythen_> can be imported
10:18:35  <Wolf01> Make a lego economy
10:18:36  <Eddi|zuHause> 3D-printed?
10:18:50  <andythen_> Traktor Plant
10:19:01  <Wolf01> With 62 types of parts (other cargos are chemicals and plastic)
10:19:26  <Eddi|zuHause> Wolf01: that's almost as bad as the minecraft economy :p
10:19:33  <Wolf01> :D
10:20:07  <Wolf01> Skeleton spawner -> arrows, bones -> bone meal -> crops
10:20:18  *** tokai has joined #openttd
10:20:18  *** ChanServ sets mode: +v tokai
10:20:20  <andythen_>  red traktors
10:20:29  <andythen_> blue traktora
10:20:37  <andythen_> green traktors
10:21:11  <Wolf01> Tokens to build and run things, like mashinky
10:21:14  <Eddi|zuHause> do they correspond with the food you can harvest with them?
10:21:14  <andythen_> fmsp from fishing harbour (bone meal)
10:23:52  <andythen_> cows need red tractors eddi
10:24:17  <andythen_> the farms are colour coded already :)
10:25:48  <Wolf01> I always thought that tractors were coloured by brand
10:26:29  <andythen_> that too
10:27:04  *** tokai|noir has quit IRC
10:32:51  *** Thedarkb has quit IRC
10:34:02  <Eddi|zuHause> the red tractor is obviously the fastest
10:34:48  *** andythen_ has quit IRC
10:35:53  *** andythenorth_ has joined #openttd
10:38:20  *** andythenorth_ has joined #openttd
10:38:34  <andythenorth_> hmm I am at Tesco
10:38:46  <andythenorth_> we need 2048 cargos
10:39:04  <Wolf01> Oh, looking for inspiration?
10:40:19  <andythenorth_> :p
10:49:27  *** andythenorth_ has quit IRC
10:50:16  *** andythenorth_ has joined #openttd
10:51:29  <andythenorth_> about 25% of shop is canned or bottled
10:54:34  *** andythenorth_ has quit IRC
11:11:07  *** andythenorth_ has joined #openttd
11:11:13  <andythenorth_> jam
11:11:41  <nielsm> I'd argue jam falls under "cannery" goods
11:13:08  <nielsm> prepare fruit/vegetables, do some kind of cooking/heat treatment, put into sealed vessels ready for retail
11:13:16  *** Thedarkb has joined #openttd
11:16:37  *** andythenorth_ has quit IRC
11:18:56  <Wolf01> ha... even more ram
11:21:39  *** Thedarkb has quit IRC
11:21:54  *** andythenorth_ has joined #openttd
11:22:26  <Alberth> :)
11:24:55  *** andythenorth_ has quit IRC
11:25:11  *** KouDy has quit IRC
11:31:06  *** KouDy has joined #openttd
11:47:23  <TrueBrain> closing tickets like there is no tomorrow!
11:47:29  <TrueBrain> 2 tickets about BaNaNaS in 1 day \o/ :D
11:49:11  <planetmaker> o/
11:49:18  <planetmaker> <3 your closing reply, TB :)
11:51:31  <TrueBrain> :)
11:53:12  *** Gja has joined #openttd
11:56:06  <Eddi|zuHause> man, i made this crazy complicated contraption in spacechem, but i need to exactly flip it, to use the other input :/
11:56:32  *** sla_ro|master has quit IRC
11:59:22  <Eddi|zuHause> ah, i think i don't need to do that after all
12:00:14  <Eddi|zuHause> now, i got laser and rocket fuel working, just the steering left
12:11:29  *** andythenorth has joined #openttd
12:18:19  *** Thedarkb has joined #openttd
12:47:26  *** Thedarkb has quit IRC
12:49:08  *** Cthulhux has joined #openttd
13:04:59  <Eddi|zuHause> bah, i need to get the ratios better... per 2 rocket explosives i need 15 rocket fuel. per 2 rocket explosives i get 4 rocket fuel as byproduct. per 1 laser charge i get 9 rocket explosives (and thus 18 rocket fuel) as byproduct, plus another 6 rocket fuel
13:05:19  <Eddi|zuHause> thus i get a surplus of rocket explosives, and my storage runs full halfway through
13:06:50  <Eddi|zuHause> i need 2:15 but i have 9:24
13:07:17  *** Thedarkb has joined #openttd
13:07:28  <Eddi|zuHause> and i can't put another storage anywhere
13:08:05  *** sla_ro|master has joined #openttd
13:08:10  *** roidal has joined #openttd
13:09:48  <Eddi|zuHause> i think i need to use the laser as waste disposal for the surplus explosives
13:10:53  <Eddi|zuHause> which means i need another reactor, which i can't have
13:11:17  *** RosaElefant has joined #openttd
13:15:13  *** Cthulhux has quit IRC
13:17:09  <andythenorth> hmm
13:17:14  <andythenorth> rocket fuel in FIRS Extreme
13:18:57  *** Thedarkb has quit IRC
13:27:12  <Eddi|zuHause> now i don't think i get enough reactor outputs :/
13:34:54  *** Wacko1976 has quit IRC
13:40:27  <Eddi|zuHause> i need to completely trash this attempt :/
13:40:48  <Eddi|zuHause> and i thought i was so close :/
13:40:58  <Wolf01> I found it difficult even to finish the tutorial
13:41:17  <Eddi|zuHause> this is the last level :/
13:41:37  <Eddi|zuHause> the tutorial was fine
13:41:53  <Eddi|zuHause> i first ran into trouble by the time they introduced fusion
13:42:00  <Eddi|zuHause> and then polymers
13:42:18  <Eddi|zuHause> and then it went into "completely insane" mode :p
13:43:21  <Alberth> spacenomy
13:45:23  <Eddi|zuHause> and then it introduces a new control node that you facepalm as "well, i could have used that _last_ level"
14:13:48  *** _aD_ has joined #openttd
14:41:20  *** sim-al2 has quit IRC
14:42:22  <Eddi|zuHause> so, i'm now at 6 rocket explosives per 1 laser charge
14:42:39  *** Thedarkb has joined #openttd
14:43:29  <Eddi|zuHause> now i need a reaction that collects surplus elements, until a laser charge is available to dispose of them
14:49:51  <SpComb> almost sounds as if you were talking about factorio, but no
14:50:03  <Eddi|zuHause> worse :p
14:50:35  <Eddi|zuHause> imagine factorio, but you are limited to an 8x10 map
14:53:33  <Wolf01> Now I understand why I only played the tutorial last time :P
14:56:21  <andythenorth> why coffee in FIRS, but not tea?
14:57:51  *** KouDy has quit IRC
15:03:17  <Wolf01> Good question
15:07:37  *** gelignite has quit IRC
15:14:31  *** Wacko1976 has joined #openttd
15:15:20  <andythenorth> another way to think about this, which town cargos would look good?
15:15:21  <andythenorth>
15:15:57  <andythenorth> currently food is piece, refrigerated, and goes in box trucks or fridge trucks
15:16:16  <andythenorth> now there are 6 cargos that go in box trucks or fridge trucks
15:36:04  *** snail_UES_ has joined #openttd
16:09:46  *** KouDy has joined #openttd
16:16:33  *** KouDy has quit IRC
16:24:29  *** gelignite has joined #openttd
16:31:16  *** Alkel_U3 has joined #openttd
16:32:50  <Alkel_U3> Hello. What the heck happened 2:09 GMT today?
16:40:09  <peter1138> I don't know, what the heck did happen at 2:09 GMT today?
16:42:13  <Wolf01> Did 2:09 GMT happen?
16:44:29  <andythenorth> I think it got missed
16:50:45  *** roidal has quit IRC
16:55:57  <Eddi|zuHause> i don't even know when 2:09GMT was
16:56:03  *** Flygon has quit IRC
16:56:25  <LordAro> pretty sure nothing happened at 0209GMT today
16:56:53  <Eddi|zuHause> i guess that is usually a time where nothing happens anyway
17:10:17  *** Am_ has joined #openttd
17:15:01  *** _aD_ has quit IRC
17:20:12  <snail_UES_> guys, I’m getting a strange bug if I try to start a game with both my trainset and Uwe’s German Road Vehicles set
17:20:24  <snail_UES_> I’m getting an error message such as: “Fatal error : requested GRF ressource not available (sprite 498)”
17:20:52  <snail_UES_> and one of our sets (the one towards the bottom of the newGRF list) gets deactivated
17:21:28  <snail_UES_> I tried running OTTD in debug mode, and I got the following error messages:
17:21:50  <snail_UES_> “ dbg: [grf] [germanrvw.grf:53] ParamSet: GRM: Unable to allocate 1792 sprites; try changing NewGRF order “ <— if I put my trainset first
17:22:09  <snail_UES_> “ dbg: [grf] [fsetw_j.grf:498] ParamSet: GRM: Unable to allocate 8704 sprites; try changing NewGRF order “ <— if I put Uwe’s road vehicle set first
17:22:28  <snail_UES_> I think it’s because we’re both allocating a very large number of recoloring sprites...
17:22:39  <Alberth> sounds likely
17:23:25  <snail_UES_> any ideas on how to fix this? (I mean any idea other than the old “you don’t need all those sprites” story)
17:24:04  <FLHerne> `if (_cur.spriteid + count >= 16384) {` it says
17:24:18  <Eddi|zuHause> snail_UES_: germanrv set reserves a crazy number of sprites for recolouring, i think
17:24:32  <snail_UES_> Eddi|zuHause: yes, and so does mine
17:24:52  <Eddi|zuHause> seems like you hit some kind of limit?
17:24:53  <snail_UES_> but neither of us (and not even the sum) reaches 16,384
17:24:59  <Alberth> Line above says: "Check if the allocated sprites will fit below the original sprite limit "
17:25:44  <frosch123> the baseset sprites also count towards the limit
17:25:55  <frosch123> anyway, 16k recolour sprites is silly
17:26:09  <frosch123> better use multiple stacked sprites with different recolouring
17:26:21  <Eddi|zuHause> limitation disturbs me very sprites...
17:27:47  <Eddi|zuHause> i suppose stacked sprites were not available when snail_UES_ started :p
17:27:57  *** Thedarkb has quit IRC
17:28:17  <snail_UES_> eddi|zuHause: exactly
17:29:06  <snail_UES_> stacked sprites help a lot, but they came into the play fairly recently and I’d have to reprogram large parts of my set to fully use them...
17:29:54  <Eddi|zuHause> should have used a code generator :p
17:30:28  <snail_UES_> it’s not that easy
17:30:41  <frosch123> Eddi|zuHause: the code generator is named "snail" :)
17:30:46  <andythenorth> disable if german RV set is found?
17:31:10  <Eddi|zuHause> andythenorth: no need for that, the error disables it automatically :p
17:31:21  <frosch123> "can't use imperial german vehicles with imperial french trains"?
17:32:40  <andythenorth> is it potatos or potatoes?
17:32:44  <andythenorth>
17:33:01  <Eddi|zuHause> andythenorth: i get the impression that potatoes won
17:33:17  <andythenorth> I have a typo then
17:33:34  <Eddi|zuHause> don't take my word for it, though
17:34:08  <andythenorth> it's potatoes
17:34:21  <andythenorth> and is it a greengrocers or a greengrocer's?
17:34:45  <andythenorth>
17:34:50  <Eddi|zuHause> i've never seen anyone use tht word
17:45:00  <peter1138> They barely exist these days :(
17:45:03  <peter1138> Supermarkets killed 'em
17:45:24  <snail_UES_> there still are farmers’ markets though
17:46:15  <snail_UES_> OMG andythenorth, are you adding new cargoes again? :O
17:47:59  <frosch123> more cargo recolourings?
17:48:44  <snail_UES_> \well at least I’m using stacked sprites for those :p
17:48:54  <snail_UES_> more coding work to support them all...
17:51:42  <andythenorth> snail_UES_: someone increased the cargo limit to 64 :P
17:52:02  <snail_UES_> funny
17:52:06  <snail_UES_> so it’s ok to increase cargo limit...
17:52:14  <snail_UES_> but it’s not ok to increase the railtypes limit :D
18:03:23  *** Supercheese has joined #openttd
18:08:42  <Wolf01> Exactly, the boss here is andythenorth
18:10:56  <snail_UES_> I actually feel this is far from a constructive behavior...
18:11:06  <snail_UES_> IMO that’s why people end up playing with patchpacks
18:12:50  <Wolf01> That's even encouraged
18:15:18  <snail_UES_> yes… that’s why I’m going to recommend JGR’s patchpack to play with my set :p
18:16:06  <Wolf01> Fine, supermop recommends NRT to play with trolleybi :P
18:16:53  <Wolf01> BTW /me -> out
18:17:06  <Alberth> bye W
18:26:04  *** Thedarkb has joined #openttd
18:29:12  <andythenorth> snail_UES_: who says it's not ok to increase the railtype limit? o_O
18:29:34  <andythenorth>
18:30:22  <andythenorth> nobody's approved it mind
18:31:34  <snail_UES_> ok… so what can we do to make this happen?
18:32:16  <andythenorth> my strategy is usually just hope
18:32:19  <andythenorth> and provide humour
18:32:58  <Eddi|zuHause> i'm not sure anybody is helped with british humour
18:33:28  <andythenorth> it helps me
18:38:42  *** KouDy has joined #openttd
18:38:45  <peter1138> Hah
18:38:49  *** smoke_fumus has joined #openttd
18:39:09  <peter1138> Clearly no other dev wants it :p
18:40:50  <snail_UES_> looks like there’s little interest in helping newgrf authors :p
18:47:01  <andythenorth> one day someone will get bored and commit it
18:47:20  <andythenorth> and then we'll have a debate about why it was so much fuss
18:47:22  <andythenorth> but eh :P
18:53:36  <andythenorth> maybe nielsm will review it? :)
18:54:40  <snail_UES_> heh, that would be great...
18:55:34  <andythenorth> so new FIRS Extreme snail_UES_
18:55:37  <andythenorth> any requests? o_O
18:55:45  <andythenorth> this is first draft, incomplete
18:55:54  <andythenorth> aim is 'city chaos'
18:56:17  <andythenorth> it seems to be Germany-Poland currently
18:56:17  <Eddi|zuHause> andythenorth: i think the typical request of a vehicle set developer is "ZOMG LEAVE IT ALONE ALREADY!!!!" :p
18:56:18  <snail_UES_> andythenorth: the final list of all cargoes and their classes would help a lot :)
18:56:31  <andythenorth> snail_UES_: funny, but come back in 12 months ;)
18:56:35  <snail_UES_> haha
18:56:46  <snail_UES_> I’m all for supporting it, but it needs to be final...
18:56:53  <andythenorth> any french cargos you can suggest?
18:56:58  <andythenorth> I already added fromage
18:57:01  <snail_UES_> I wouldn’t like to spend time coding cargoes that later disappear
18:57:17  <snail_UES_> yes, cheese can be a subset of dairy products I guess
18:57:25  *** glx has joined #openttd
18:57:25  *** ChanServ sets mode: +v glx
18:57:39  <snail_UES_> fruit should go to a distillery as well I think…?
18:57:47  <andythenorth> it might
18:57:48  <Eddi|zuHause> snail_UES_: giant rolls of cheese on a stake wagon? :p
18:57:53  <andythenorth> I considered tobacco
18:57:55  <andythenorth> also
18:57:56  <andythenorth> but no
18:58:41  <snail_UES_> no vehicles?
18:58:52  <andythenorth> traktors
18:58:54  <Eddi|zuHause> i give tobacco another decade or so and it's banned...
18:59:01  <Eddi|zuHause> maybe two
18:59:05  <Eddi|zuHause> but it's clearly coming
18:59:12  <andythenorth> I think it will just get hard to buy
18:59:21  <snail_UES_> andythenorth: tractors in steeltown, right?
18:59:35  <andythenorth> trucks in steeltown
18:59:52  <snail_UES_> for ECS, I coded “vehicles” as many subtypes, distinguishing 4 different carmakers :p
19:00:16  <snail_UES_> but I won’t be able to use it in FIRS, since vehicles are only trucks or tractors...
19:02:31  <nielsm> andythenorth nah I don't feel confident about anything relating to the map array at all, haven't touched any of those parts of the code yet
19:03:12  <andythenorth> maybe I could do this with my van
19:06:16  *** gelignite2nd has joined #openttd
19:07:39  <snail_UES_> nielsm: but it works in JGR patch.. is this a different implementation?
19:08:37  <nielsm> I have no idea
19:08:51  <peter1138> What works in JGR?
19:08:53  <nielsm> if I've ever used JGRs patch it would be like 5-7 years ago
19:09:03  <snail_UES_> 32 railtypes
19:09:05  <nielsm> don't know if it even existed then
19:09:20  <peter1138> Oh, yes, that's a different implementation.
19:09:43  <peter1138> (One that we rejected, though I had (separately) already done it that way)
19:12:05  <LordAro> what was different about it? why was it rejected?
19:12:52  *** gelignite has quit IRC
19:13:17  <peter1138> It's the one that splits the field up.
19:14:27  <andythenorth> oh the untidy bits version?
19:17:49  <LordAro> ah right
19:33:01  <Eddi|zuHause> i'm not sure how, but i finally managed to finish this crazy game...
19:34:33  <andythenorth> 👻👍
19:35:11  <Eddi|zuHause> yes, two white blocks back to you, sir.
19:48:58  *** synchris has quit IRC
19:51:41  <Alberth> Eddi|zuHause: Translation:
19:53:39  *** sla_ro|master has quit IRC
19:55:23  *** JacobD88 has joined #openttd
19:58:50  *** Alberth has left #openttd
20:05:10  *** frosch123 has quit IRC
20:13:31  *** gelignite2nd has quit IRC
20:22:06  *** Thedarkb has quit IRC
20:33:35  *** Thedarkb has joined #openttd
20:39:14  *** sim-al2 has joined #openttd
20:59:18  *** andythenorth has left #openttd
21:02:00  *** cHawk has joined #openttd
21:17:02  *** Progman has quit IRC
21:19:53  *** Supercheese has quit IRC
21:20:09  *** Supercheese has joined #openttd
21:21:09  *** JacobD88 has quit IRC
21:43:31  *** RafiX has quit IRC
22:00:50  *** snail_UES_ is now known as Guest1209
22:00:50  *** snail_UES_ has joined #openttd
22:04:57  *** cHawk has quit IRC
22:10:52  *** Wacko1976 has quit IRC
22:16:58  *** nielsm has quit IRC
22:18:43  *** HerzogDeXtEr has quit IRC
22:20:07  *** Thedarkb has quit IRC
22:23:01  *** Wormnest has quit IRC
22:43:48  *** Wolf01 has quit IRC
23:02:18  *** KouDy has quit IRC
23:05:17  *** KouDy has joined #openttd
23:15:50  *** KouDy has quit IRC
23:34:48  *** KouDy has joined #openttd
23:43:18  *** sim-al2 has quit IRC
23:44:26  *** Thedarkb-X40 has joined #openttd
23:55:35  *** KouDy has quit IRC
23:58:24  *** _aD_ has joined #openttd

Powered by YARRSTE version: svn-trunk