Log for #openttd on 22nd July 2018:
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07:50:09  <andythenorth> o/
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08:04:36  <Wolf01> o/
08:05:46  <Wolf01> Lets see if I get headache from boredom even today
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10:04:31  <andythenorth_> hmm
10:08:39  <Alberth> o/_
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10:19:40  <peter1138> Hmm, so when I build, the basesets change.
10:20:08  <peter1138> Is there some step missing with the translator commits?
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10:25:09  <liste> LordAro CompuDesktop liste Maarten UncleCJ Sylf Osai V453000 TinoDidriksen APTX| argoneus Sacro gelignite Mek ccfreak2k LANJesus _dp_ Arveen Westie pixeldanger[m] WWacko1976-work Hirundo Antheus Lejving_ heffer Thedarkb SpComb HerzogDeXtEr
10:25:09  <liste> blathijs tokai|noir johnwhitlow[m] TrueBrain juzza1 greeter Mazur Progman andythenorth_ angguss[m] HeyCitizen Webster sim-al2 Laedek Wacko1976 fonsinchen swedneck[m] Hazzard vlanik2[m] Smedles Eddi|zuHause quiznilo Wolf01 DorpsGek Exec rocky113844
10:25:09  <liste> Agiri[m] Yexo tyteen4a03 triolus[m] cute[m] orudge grossing synchris rocky1138 urdh Afdal Alkel_U3 ^Spike^ sla_ro|master Thedarkb-X40 Rubidium michi_cc hrmny reldred berndj avdg Flygon Alberth mindlesstux techmagus Taede Ammler debdog nauticalnexus
10:25:09  <liste> OsteHovel nielsm KouDy Mahjong murr4y Extrems IgnoredAmbience Afshaal mikegrb keoz planetmaker Heiki tneo gas1[m] dihedral peter11382018-07-22T11:20:16  <frosch123> someone wants to read 55GB of supybot logs?
11:22:59  <frosch123> oops, gone
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11:35:44  <TrueBrain> took them 14 minutes this time? Omg
11:36:02  <TrueBrain> frosch123: why +R the channel? :)
11:36:55  <frosch123> in the past years spammers were always here on sundays
11:37:15  <frosch123> it's just easier to block everyone until kids are in bed
11:37:47  <TrueBrain> meh; happened now .. twice in 5 months, that a spammers get through? Both times OFTC took actions in a short window of time :)
11:37:56  <TrueBrain> just don't forget to remove +R when the sunday is over I guess :P
11:38:18  <TrueBrain> michi_cc: your comit message is a lie, I now notice :D
11:38:26  <TrueBrain> owh well :P
11:38:39  <TrueBrain> happy the PR is in there :D
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11:58:58  <Alberth> o/
12:11:56  <berndj> i really hate local authorities sometimes
12:12:44  <berndj> if i don't do blitzkrieg station building then they never let me help them. then instead i grow the surrounding towns that aren't idiots until it suffocates them
12:14:56  <Eddi|zuHause> i generally place a few bus stops first
12:15:21  <Eddi|zuHause> then the station itself, and then the tracks
12:15:41  <berndj> yeah, it seems you really have to get going really quickly without giving them time to dislike you
12:17:09  <nielsm> build a serviced bus route first to give a steady source of positive thoughts
12:17:22  <nielsm> then build railway station with minimum destruction
12:17:35  <nielsm> then landscape and bulldoze the rails to it
12:17:57  <berndj> what's the radius of dislike btw? i've noticed sometimes i just have a line passing through the general vicinity of a town, without any stations, and then that town hates me forever
12:18:32  <berndj> is it the terrain modifications that matter? or just the building of tracks, or what is it that starts their hate clock ticking?
12:18:39  <nielsm> I'm not sure what exactly defines it, but if you use the query tool it always lists "local authority" which can be "none"
12:18:59  <nielsm> it's mainly destruction of trees, buildings and city-owned roads
12:19:06  <frosch123> it depends on number of houses
12:19:22  <frosch123> which is a stat that is not directly visible
12:19:24  <berndj> damn bunnyhuggers
12:19:42  <nielsm> afaik landscape itself does not cause negative reputation
12:19:51  <Eddi|zuHause> you can also change the sensitivity of the authorities
12:26:41  <peter1138> nielsm, did you consider measuring AI time?
12:28:39  <nielsm> yeah did consider
12:28:59  <nielsm> but ai and gs are both bounded on number of VM ticks each game tick, right?
12:30:24  <TrueBrain> people that make a detailed bug report, and fix it themself .. what is becoming of this world!
12:30:29  <TrueBrain> *denies PR purely for this* :P
12:30:51  <TrueBrain> nielsm: yes; but 1 VM tick is not a preset amount of time :)
12:30:58  <TrueBrain> (it is 1 instruction, which can vary)
12:31:43  <TrueBrain> and the amount of ticks is pretty arbitrary :D
12:31:53  <TrueBrain> I believe I just picked a number .. any that sounded reasonable :P
12:32:04  <nielsm> :D
12:35:24  <peter1138> Presumably AIs don't use ALL the ticks available every time?
12:35:31  <peter1138> Or do they? I dunno.
12:35:53  <frosch123> any command suspends them
12:36:21  <peter1138> *nod*
12:36:23  <frosch123> so, they only reach the max ops, if they never build anything
12:36:49  <peter1138> And I assume 7 AIs will use more time than 1 AI.
12:42:20  <Eddi|zuHause> knowing the AI time might help in picking a better VM tick limit
12:50:02  <andythenorth> hi
12:51:30  <andythenorth> anything I can do to help this?
12:51:31  <andythenorth>
12:51:43  <andythenorth> currently I am using JGR's patch, applied locally
12:58:32  <peter1138> cherry-pick + make PR ?
13:09:49  <andythenorth>
13:27:50  <Flygon> <Eddi|zuHause> i generally place a few bus stops first
13:28:02  <Flygon> I always build a Tram network in a town but it's so time consuming. :D
13:28:23  <Flygon> And even worse I like to name the Tram stations realistic names because I like to work on IRL scenarios. :D
13:28:29  <Eddi|zuHause> well, whether i place bus or tram depends on the mood of the day, i guess
13:28:39  <Flygon> But I always wind up with towns growing very fast because...uhm....
13:28:43  <Flygon> They have a reason to grow fast.
13:29:06  <Flygon> So by the time I actually finish the Trainline, they end up far bigger than the Trainline was built for.
13:29:15  <Eddi|zuHause> yes, you should not place the stops and forget about putting the station :p
13:29:41  <Flygon> ...hopefully JGR allowing nerfing town growth makes this more manageable. I've only just started using the patchpack.
13:29:46  <Flygon> Oh, no. I place the station.
13:30:01  <Flygon> I'm just too lazy to make temporary terminuses. :P
13:30:02  <andythenorth> is it nap time?
13:30:17  <Flygon> It's almost Adult Swim time in Australia. :3
13:30:33  <Flygon> whoo aqua team hunger force
13:31:11  <Flygon> I'm seriously loving the timepatch though. It makes 4k*4k scenarios bearable.
13:31:22  <Flygon> Rather than getting just 20% of the map done by the time it's 2050.
13:31:35  <LordAro> andythenorth: no you need to fix the PR :p
13:32:17  <andythenorth> so I need to rewrite the commit message?
13:32:51  <LordAro> yeah
13:32:58  <andythenorth> how do I keep JGR as author?
13:33:17  <LordAro> i think author will stay...
13:33:22  <LordAro> if not, ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
13:33:34  <LordAro> it's a 2 line patch, i'm sure JGR won't mind
13:33:45  <andythenorth> I try just --amend first
13:33:59  <Alberth> add  (jgr)   at the end of the commit
13:34:07  <Alberth> +message
13:35:14  <andythenorth> nope
13:35:18  <andythenorth> now I have 3 commits :(
13:35:20  <andythenorth> this is not good
13:35:28  <andythenorth>
13:35:42  <andythenorth> --amend causes a merge
13:36:16  <Alberth> ??
13:36:22  <peter1138> How do you manage to break git every time?
13:36:26  <andythenorth> practice
13:36:46  <andythenorth> also someone might have configure my git in a non-standard way a long time ago
13:36:48  <andythenorth> not sure
13:37:01  <peter1138> Likely, --amend does not merge.
13:37:15  <andythenorth> but when I push after the amend, there are upstream changes
13:37:18  <peter1138> And cherry-pick keeps the author by default anyway.
13:37:44  <andythenorth> "hint: 'git pull ...') before pushing again."
13:37:48  <andythenorth> then I pull
13:37:56  <andythenorth> then git auto-merges on pull
13:37:59  <andythenorth> then there are 3 commits
13:38:23  <peter1138> Don't pull.
13:38:27  <andythenorth> eh?
13:38:32  <andythenorth> but git says I have to :P
13:38:42  <andythenorth> is this force push again?
13:38:42  <peter1138> No, it suggests you might want to. But you don't.
13:39:33  <peter1138> git reset HEAD~1
13:39:35  <peter1138> git checkout .
13:39:48  <peter1138> git push <your origin> 6773 -f
13:40:09  <LordAro> when you rewrite history, you want to force push
13:40:14  <andythenorth> ugh
13:40:19  <andythenorth> I just can't get used to that
13:40:20  <LordAro> (rewrite history == --amend or rebase)
13:40:32  <andythenorth> ok I deleted the branch
13:40:47  <LordAro> lol
13:44:16  <peter1138> Argh, yet another dead PR :(
13:44:28  <LordAro> bad andythenorth
13:44:43  <andythenorth> I stick to pixels
13:45:11  <LordAro> fwiw, you didn't delete the branch :p
13:45:14  <LordAro> it's still on your remote
13:45:48  <LordAro> peter1138's still got commit rights on your fork, right? :p
13:46:34  <andythenorth> ok it's gone
13:46:43  <LordAro> boooo
13:46:54  <andythenorth> I'll do it again later
13:47:04  <andythenorth> I'll go read the rebase -i docs again
13:47:08  <andythenorth> I hate doing rebase
13:47:27  <andythenorth> I don't understand it, and I have to use nano in shell for it
13:47:31  <peter1138> You didn't need to rebase.
13:47:31  <andythenorth> I hate shell editors
13:47:38  <peter1138> Just a cherry-pick.
13:47:57  <andythenorth> but I have to rewrite the commit
13:48:00  <peter1138> Why?
13:48:08  <LordAro> the message is "wrong"
13:48:11  <andythenorth> it fails the checks
13:48:12  <peter1138> git rebase -i master
13:48:16  <peter1138> Easy.
13:48:36  <andythenorth> this would be way easier if jgrpp was a fork of openttd
13:48:39  <andythenorth> :|
13:48:50  <andythenorth> probably way way too late for that
13:48:55  <peter1138> That's irrelevant. cherry-pick just works.
13:51:49  <andythenorth> so cp, amend, push -f
13:52:07  <peter1138> just a push
13:52:12  <andythenorth> that won't work
13:52:17  <andythenorth> I tried that already, the PR is rejected
13:52:24  <peter1138> you only need push -f because you'd already pushed earlier
13:52:30  <peter1138> ah you didn't close the branch, just the PR?
13:52:34  <peter1138> why close the PR? o_O
13:52:40  <andythenorth> I deleted the branch
13:52:48  <andythenorth> because it's fucked
13:52:48  <peter1138> ...
13:52:52  <peter1138> so you don't need to push -f
13:53:02  <andythenorth> but I can push if the commit is amended
13:53:05  <andythenorth> can't
13:53:07  <peter1138> you can
13:53:11  * andythenorth doesn't understand tbh
13:53:14  <andythenorth> but I'll try
13:53:16  <peter1138> you can't push if you have ALREADY pushed
13:54:50  <LordAro> regardless you should be able to recreate the branch and reuse the PR
13:54:59  <andythenorth> hang on
13:55:10  <LordAro> hahaha
13:55:15  <LordAro> or not
13:55:20  <andythenorth> almost lulz
13:55:25  <andythenorth> as long as it gets done.... :P
14:15:29  <andythenorth> so now someone just needs to merge it? o_O
14:17:56  <michi_cc> peter1138: I would've reformulated that commit message to actually be a Fix #6773:
14:26:46  <peter1138> "oh well"
14:27:04  <peter1138> It's still a code change :p
14:27:22  <peter1138> It still closes the issue.
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14:39:54  <andythenorth> thx
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15:05:51  <andythenorth> do we think 2 industry output cargos is design or accident? o_O
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15:10:01  <andythenorth> and is 'glue and paint' a valid cargo? :P
15:12:17  <nielsm> two output cargos is design
15:12:35  <nielsm> the original game has two industries with two output cargos, farms and oil rigs
15:13:58  <andythenorth> yes
15:14:34  <Alberth> name it "glued paint"  :p
15:15:01  <andythenorth> 'paint and finishes'? o_O
15:15:08  <andythenorth> I did have 'adhesives' which is quite neat
15:15:09  <nielsm> pigmented glue
15:15:16  <andythenorth> but I can only find one destination for 'adhesives'
15:15:28  <Alberth> not sure why you need glue for painting though
15:15:42  <Alberth> aka "sticky"
15:15:49  <andythenorth> they use similar polymer inputs
15:15:51  <andythenorth> in some cases
15:16:10  <Alberth> house decorating supplies
15:16:38  <andythenorth> I was thinking more for tractors
15:16:41  <Alberth> especially needed for fast growing cities
15:27:15  <Eddi|zuHause> andythenorth: i tried to explain this earlier, but my understanding of paint is that you don't put the polymers in them, but the polymerisation happens upon drying the paint after applying it, and is what makes the paint stick. i'm assuming the same thing happens with glues
15:28:17  <Eddi|zuHause> andythenorth: so you put a "binding agent" in the paint, that is responsible for this polymerisation
15:28:31  <Eddi|zuHause> andythenorth: often that is "casein" (the main component of cheese)
15:28:39  <Eddi|zuHause> but there are also synthetic alternatives
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15:33:34  <andythenorth> ok thx
15:34:05  <andythenorth>
15:34:10  <andythenorth> might be over-provided on food
15:34:12  <andythenorth> dunno
15:34:31  <andythenorth> plastic needs more destinations
15:34:35  <andythenorth> paper does nothing :P
15:34:57  <andythenorth> timber yard needs creosote or something
15:35:41  <Eddi|zuHause> paper goes to printing works (town industry) or packaging facility?
15:35:54  <Eddi|zuHause> packaging facility also accepts plastic
15:36:16  <peter1138> Sugar and Sugar Beet... hmm.
15:36:25  <peter1138> *potatoes
15:36:27  <andythenorth> don't mention the war
15:36:40  <andythenorth> printing works needs ink or dye?
15:36:53  <Eddi|zuHause> ink
15:36:59  <peter1138> Some of these cargo types are oddly specific
15:37:18  <peter1138> And then you've got Goods :p
15:37:29  <Eddi|zuHause> depending on what they print, they might use dye-based ink or pigment-based ink
15:37:29  <peter1138> Beans? Hmm
15:37:31  <andythenorth> Goods needs splitting
15:37:44  <andythenorth> Beans I am maybe about to remove
15:37:50  <andythenorth> I thought it was funny to have baked bean factory
15:37:54  <andythenorth> not sure it is
15:37:59  <peter1138> "traktor plant"?
15:38:03  <peter1138> Traktor?
15:38:11  <andythenorth> Russian Tractor
15:38:12  <Eddi|zuHause> remove goods completely, and add some more specific new consumer goods?
15:38:15  <andythenorth> yes
15:38:26  <andythenorth> domestic appliances, household chemicals
15:38:33  <andythenorth> already split furniture and textiles
15:38:35  <andythenorth> toys?
15:38:38  <Eddi|zuHause> electronics, textiles
15:38:39  <peter1138> Like ammonia and lye
15:38:55  <Eddi|zuHause> textile works also accepts paint
15:39:01  <peter1138> Electronics, comes from an industry called "China"
15:39:08  <andythenorth> that's a port then
15:39:21  <andythenorth> Eddi|zuHause: how to produce paint then? o_O
15:39:46  <andythenorth> not sure about potatoes
15:40:01  <Eddi|zuHause> after working at a paint factory for over a year, i still haven't the faintest idea :p
15:40:13  <peter1138> Pigment, binder & solvent. I can google!
15:40:29  <andythenorth> isn't it
15:40:50  <Eddi|zuHause> peter1138: that's what i thought after the first 2 days. but then it got complicated... :p
15:40:50  <peter1138> Add two binders cargo types
15:40:53  <peter1138> One for paint
15:40:57  <peter1138> And one of storing documents
15:41:00  <andythenorth> Binder 1
15:41:02  <andythenorth> Binder 2
15:41:09  <andythenorth> do I have enough cargo slots? o_O
15:41:24  <andythenorth> delete potatos I think
15:41:29  <peter1138> Also add a Binders industry that takes paper and produces documents
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15:41:39  <andythenorth> Dox
15:41:40  <peter1138> I think you should not listen to me.
15:41:40  <Eddi|zuHause> if you delete the potatos, are the potatoes still in?
15:42:21  <andythenorth> not so much
15:42:36  <andythenorth> I can never spell it, which is a bad smell
15:42:44  <andythenorth> peter1138: I think your ideas are great
15:42:48  <andythenorth> do you have a newsletter?
15:42:55  <andythenorth> Spam Mail Plant
15:43:01  <andythenorth> paper, stamps -> mail
15:43:20  <Alberth> printingworks -> letters
15:43:49  <Alberth> press-agency -> news
15:43:51  <Eddi|zuHause> "mail" and "unsolicited mail"?
15:44:14  <Eddi|zuHause> and some houses don't accept "unsolicited mail"?
15:44:17  <andythenorth> 'rumours'
15:44:25  <Alberth> there is non-unsolicited mail?
15:44:33  <peter1138> 'fake news'
15:44:37  <Eddi|zuHause> "news", "fake news" and "counter fake news"?
15:45:11  <andythenorth> potatoes / potatos
15:45:12  <andythenorth> are gone
15:45:31  <andythenorth> 45 cargos
15:45:40  <andythenorth> 3 slots spare, and goods can also be swapped out
15:45:44  <Eddi|zuHause> andythenorth: so first time i clicked on the graph, i can't find ANYTHING that we're talking about
15:45:56  <andythenorth> was it cached?
15:46:10  <Eddi|zuHause> no, i mean it's too hard to read
15:46:17  <andythenorth> oh that :)
15:46:28  <andythenorth> suggestions welcome
15:47:04  <Eddi|zuHause> dunno, bigger font?
15:48:29  <andythenorth> seems graphviz has some options there
15:48:50  <andythenorth> there was a zoom tool, but it's stopped working
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15:49:12  <Eddi|zuHause> zoom tool seems to work here
15:49:34  <andythenorth> really? o_O
15:49:36  <andythenorth> which browser?
15:49:40  <Eddi|zuHause> firefox
15:50:20  <Eddi|zuHause> "60.1.0esr (64-Bit)"
15:50:40  <andythenorth> only slightly older than mine
15:50:57  <andythenorth> oh it's appeared for me in FF now
15:51:02  <andythenorth> it's rather unreliable :)
15:51:54  <andythenorth> so Detergent or Household Chemicals?
15:52:04  <Eddi|zuHause> so, both the dairy and the polymer factory could produce "binding agent", which is input for paint factory
15:52:32  <Eddi|zuHause> simulating natural and synthetic inputs
15:53:08  <andythenorth> if it was straightforward PVA, it could also be glue for furniture factory :P
15:53:31  <andythenorth> nope, different PVA
15:53:35  <andythenorth> discount that
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15:54:23  <Eddi|zuHause> leaves the dissolving agent and the pigments to simulate
15:54:44  <Eddi|zuHause> pigment is very diverse field
15:54:46  <andythenorth> pigments -> dyes?
15:54:50  <andythenorth> already in ECS
15:55:27  <Eddi|zuHause> depending on how fine you want to model is, those are different things
15:56:01  <Eddi|zuHause> "dyes" is usually organic substances that are water-soluable, and "pigments" are inorganic substances that are non-water-soluable (hence the dissolving agent)
15:56:25  <andythenorth> well the maximum detail resolution is '3' :P
15:56:30  <andythenorth> due to input cargos
15:56:35  <andythenorth> and 2 would be better
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15:56:53  <Eddi|zuHause> usually dyes are prone to fading faster than pigments
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16:15:30  <Wolf01> Mmmh, autorejoin failed
16:15:57  <Wolf01> andythenorth: finished the prototype of my brick-wall :P
16:17:03  <andythenorth> pictures
16:17:06  <andythenorth> or didn't happen :)
16:17:37  <Wolf01> this is a brick-wall, I made one like an advertising board
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16:21:26  <Wolf01>!AgUFeOGLNNfVipsuBqauFKv8yaSg9A this is one of the WIP images
16:22:46  <Wolf01> o/ Alberth
16:23:03  <Alberth> o/
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16:58:35  <andythenorth> o/ snail_UES_
16:58:48  <snail_UES_> hi andythenorth
17:01:35  <andythenorth> anyone want to review this? o_O
17:24:28  <andythenorth> hmm
17:24:43  <LordAro> andythenorth: it's a peter1138 patch, i imagine it's fine :p
17:24:49  <andythenorth> gr8 review
17:24:52  <andythenorth> :P
17:24:53  <LordAro> but map array is beyond my ability to review
17:24:56  <andythenorth> put it on the PR :)
17:24:59  <andythenorth> 'probably fine'
17:25:03  <LordAro> :D
17:25:22  <andythenorth> maybe a sock puppet account, peter1139
17:25:55  <andythenorth> so should I go full 64 cargos then?
17:25:59  <andythenorth> my aim was 48
17:26:00  <andythenorth> but eh
17:44:22  <Alberth> last time it was 45 iirc :p
17:45:13  <Alberth> but 64 sounds something you'd expect in extreme :p
17:45:32  <snail_UES_> andythenorth: OMG
17:45:54  <snail_UES_> what I’d love to get from you would be a “final” list of cargoes… no matter how many...
17:45:59  <andythenorth> good luck
17:46:02  <andythenorth> why?
17:46:17  <snail_UES_> so that I can code them on my trainset and support your FIRS
17:46:26  <snail_UES_> how can I do that if they keep changing...?
17:46:39  <andythenorth> you probably can't :)
17:46:44  <andythenorth> but stasis is boring
17:47:37  <andythenorth> Alberth: I really think
17:47:48  <andythenorth> that if I do 64, I'll end up micro-modelling the chemical chain :P
17:47:50  <snail_UES_> I can’t see potatoes on your list there…
17:47:55  <andythenorth> not sure if this is Food Town
17:47:57  <andythenorth> Goods Town
17:48:00  <andythenorth> or Chemical Town
17:48:04  <snail_UES_> I thought we had discussed them a few days ago? did you drop the idea?
17:48:28  <andythenorth> for now
17:48:38  <andythenorth> an economy takes about 1 year to do
17:48:40  <Alberth> goods seems most diverse to me
17:49:11  <andythenorth> if it's Goods Town
17:49:19  <andythenorth> then the focus should be on many intermediate cargos
17:49:26  <snail_UES_> yes I think with 64 cargo types, such a generic cargo as “goods” would make little sense...
17:49:30  <andythenorth> and I don't need to add even more chemical feedstocks :P
17:49:38  <snail_UES_> IMO either we have all “generic” cargoes with subtypes,
17:49:43  <andythenorth> I am kind of stuck in chemical chains right now
17:49:46  <snail_UES_> or we have a long, detailed list of specific cargoes
17:49:51  <andythenorth> snail_UES_: I agree
17:49:52  <snail_UES_> having both in the same schema looks confusing
17:49:54  <andythenorth> except for Supplies
17:49:57  <andythenorth> and Food
17:50:21  <snail_UES_> but even Food… why having “Food” separate from, say, “Beans” or “Potatoes"?
17:50:24  <Alberth> probably everything "at the edge" of the economy
17:50:31  <andythenorth> the problem with splitting food
17:50:34  <snail_UES_> they’re both kinds of food…
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17:50:40  <andythenorth> is that it demands a lot of black hole destination industries
17:50:46  <andythenorth> and there's no reliable way to provide them
17:50:57  <snail_UES_> supermarket, retail market, farmers’ market...
17:51:03  <andythenorth> so actually, most towns *wouldn't* accept, e.g. meat, fish, diairy, meat, bread
17:51:17  <snail_UES_> unless we add specific industries
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17:51:27  <andythenorth> each industry can only accept 3
17:51:39  <andythenorth> and splitting food only makes sense if it's split to at least 6 or 7 cargos
17:52:13  <andythenorth> when I tested it, the chances of getting a destination industry for, e.g. meat, were very low
17:52:27  <snail_UES_> so we could have “bakery store” accepting bread and similar, “farmers’ market” accepting fruit and vegetables, “supermarket” accepting meat, diary, alcohol..
17:52:33  <andythenorth> yes, I did that
17:52:38  <andythenorth> but they don't get built
17:52:45  <andythenorth> it's just how ottd works
17:52:57  <snail_UES_> the issue is that, if they’re houses, they can get built and demolished
17:53:12  <snail_UES_> if they’re industries, we should make sure they’re built in high numbers across the map
17:53:21  <andythenorth> but we can't
17:53:25  <andythenorth> that's not possible
17:53:47  <snail_UES_> then the alternative is to raise the number of accepted cargoes per industry :p
17:54:22  <snail_UES_> “big picture”, I think 64 cargo types can be exciting, but not really implementable if we also have the limit of 3 cargo types per industry
17:54:27  <snail_UES_> both limits should be raised together
17:54:52  <andythenorth> I think it's worth considering
17:55:03  <andythenorth> but it makes economy design rather easy
17:55:07  <andythenorth> not sure it's very interesting then :)
17:56:30  <Wolf01> <snail_UES_> the issue is that, if they’re houses, they can get built and demolished <- that's how GOODs work, just make sure multiple stores will be built
17:56:45  <andythenorth> FIRS could enforce houses
17:56:50  <andythenorth> I wondered about doing that
17:57:10  <andythenorth> so it's Industry & House Set
17:57:14  <andythenorth> needs a new name then
17:57:24  <andythenorth> FISH?
17:57:30  <andythenorth> Full Industry Set Houses
17:57:48  <snail_UES_> I thought Squid had already eaten FISH?
17:58:07  <Wolf01> Nah, you only provide houses useful to the industry chain, not a full set of houses
17:58:18  <Wolf01> Just FIRS is enough
17:58:39  <andythenorth> I think I'd need to control all houses
17:58:45  <andythenorth> otherwise weird side effects
17:58:52  <andythenorth> so I'd disable FIRS against other house sets
17:59:29  <andythenorth> also, so I shouldn't add the following cargos?  Benzene, Propene, Naptha, Ethanol, Bitumen, Acetylene?
17:59:32  <andythenorth> :P
17:59:40  <snail_UES_> :O
17:59:48  <snail_UES_> all of those carried in tank wagons I guess?
17:59:59  <snail_UES_> split from “Chemical Products"?
18:00:58  <andythenorth> I think they aren't valid
18:03:53  <andythenorth> the puzzle is
18:04:06  <andythenorth> the chlor alkali industry is actually really easy, just split salt
18:04:41  <andythenorth> and then chlorine goes to plastic, and lye goes to paper + detergents
18:04:43  <andythenorth> but the petrochemicals industry is very complex and hard to understand
18:05:50  <andythenorth> and has multiple feedstocks: crude oil, natural gas, syngas from coal, and biomass distilling
18:07:31  <andythenorth> meanwhile, sulphur is the world's most produced industrial chemical
18:07:44  <andythenorth> but is hard to find destinations for, without other petrochemicals to combine it with
18:12:54  <andythenorth> meanwhile the only metal in this economy is steel :P
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19:30:41  <TrueBrain> wow, that patch from peter1138 about increasing railtypes is really hard to review
19:30:48  <TrueBrain> mostly as it is 1 commit with EVERYTHING done :)
19:31:21  <LordAro> not sure you can split it up any further
19:31:32  <TrueBrain> at least the m3 -> m8 in 1 commit would have helped :D
19:32:43  <LordAro> i guess :p
19:33:04  <TrueBrain> do you know why he changed 1 into 1LL?
19:33:10  <TrueBrain> hard time figuring thatone out
19:35:14  <snail_UES_> TrueBrain: thanks for having a look into this… it’d be great if that made it into trunk :)
19:35:43  <TrueBrain> I doubt I can give a sane review atm ... so many changes that I cannot pinpoint ..
19:36:39  <TrueBrain> it really feels it does more than it claims
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19:46:31  <TrueBrain> LordAro: "properly fine" makes me very nervous btw ;)
19:46:40  <TrueBrain> fine if that is by consensus, but to approve a PR for that :D
19:47:09  <TrueBrain> but I cannot believe you had nothing to complain :D Best one for me was: "Invalid railtypes?" (he added the ?)
19:56:12  <TrueBrain> frosch123: I am currently using the labels for PRs .. I hope I can automate DorpsGek to do that soon-ish for us .. but at least I find it more understandable with labels what needs attention and what not
19:56:15  <TrueBrain> don't know about you :)
19:58:33  <TrueBrain> tempted to accept the forest patch ..
19:58:58  <TrueBrain> bit shitty I currently cannot compile OpenTTD
19:59:02  <TrueBrain> where is andy when you need him :D
20:02:18  <TrueBrain> owh well, time to watch some telly :) nn!
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21:35:36  <peter1138> 1LL because 1 << x is 32 bit.
21:40:08  <peter1138> I suppose move then extend can be split up.
21:44:23  <peter1138> thanks for looking at it
21:54:38  <Wolf01> 'night
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22:54:03  <TrueBrain> peter1338: exactly, so why the  LL? INVALID is UINT32_MAX .. p1/p2 too .. 6 bits fits too .. bitshift 25 is fine .. I didnt see why it needs LL? (I am most likely missing something here :D)
22:54:34  <TrueBrain> typing your name right is hard too ... peter1138 .. lol
22:59:40  <Eddi|zuHause> who types names?
22:59:57  <Eddi|zuHause> p[tab]?
23:00:09  <TrueBrain> ah, RailTypes is a bitmask ... got it .. not your patch, but that name is fucked up .. RailType is a value, RailTypes a bit mask .. just to screw with you! Got it now :)
23:00:37  <TrueBrain> nn
23:09:54  <peter1138> I've split it up.
23:10:04  <peter1138> I'm trying to solve the rt << 4 | 7 issue.
23:11:08  <peter1138> It's to spread railtypes out, but the storage is a byte, so << 4 chops the 2 MSB of with 64 types.
23:11:51  <peter1138> rt << 2 | 7 is clearly wrong. rt << 2 | 3 is more reasonable, but messes up any existing newgrf ordering.
23:13:44  <peter1138> Also, the merge detection fails to understand savegame bumps :D
23:14:00  <peter1138> Not sure that's solvable.
23:15:09  <peter1138> Hmm, it is, but where we've put "198" and "199" in saveload.cpp by themselves it should have a description. That'll conflict.

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