Log for #openttd on 4th August 2018:
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06:05:37  <Alberth> o/
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06:21:52  <Alberth> o/
06:24:24  <andythenorth> moin
06:27:20  <andythenorth> 65% complete
06:32:14  <Alberth> \o/
06:34:30  <LordAro> o\
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06:56:24  <TrueBrain> tempted to just merge #6868 .. over a week, and seems nobody cares about bugs in OpenTTD :P
07:01:13  <TrueBrain> no longer sure what to think of the "forest" patch
07:01:26  <TrueBrain> hard to see if things get better or worse :D
07:07:55  <TrueBrain> wow .. github scans requirements.txt too, and warn about issues
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07:09:17  <TrueBrain> hello andythenorth :)
07:09:24  <andythenorth> yo TrueBrain
07:09:36  <TrueBrain> how are you doing? :D
07:09:45  <andythenorth> bonza
07:09:46  <andythenorth> you?
07:09:52  <TrueBrain> bonsaitree! :D
07:09:58  <TrueBrain> finally getting a bit used to the heat ..
07:10:05  <TrueBrain> hopefully I can be productive today :P
07:10:27  <andythenorth> \o/
07:10:42  <andythenorth> so many great commits to trunk
07:10:48  <andythenorth> already done
07:10:57  <andythenorth> #MOGA
07:11:05  <andythenorth> I'll make us baseball caps
07:11:11  <andythenorth> Make OpenTTD Great Again
07:11:14  <TrueBrain> hahahahaha :D
07:11:46  <andythenorth> "it's tremendous, I think you're really going to love it"
07:12:04  <TrueBrain> "It is THE BESTEST Open Source Project"
07:12:11  <TrueBrain> wait, Open Source Project is too long to remember
07:12:38  <andythenorth> fake news
07:14:30  <andythenorth> 134 closed PRs now
07:16:13  <Alberth> but people continue making new ones :p
07:18:18  <TrueBrain> massive amounts of emails in my mailbox because I authorized pyup into OpenTTD :P
07:19:54  <TrueBrain> damn, they did that awesome
07:20:04  <TrueBrain> they create PRs with everything needed to get them working
07:20:31  <Alberth> :)
07:20:48  <TrueBrain>
07:20:51  <TrueBrain> that is why I love automation
07:21:47  <Markk> Hello everyone, a quick question. When creating orders for trains, is it possible to change the "Unload all" button that as default creates the "Unload and take cargo" order. I would like it to be  "Unload and leave empty" as default, is that possible?
07:24:17  <Alberth> you cannot change the default order easily, unless "easy" includes changing source and recompiling
07:24:33  <Markk> Ah, I was afraid it was something like that.
07:24:44  <Alberth> not sure why this is a big problem, you know about cloning orders?
07:24:56  <Alberth> or for that matter, cargodist?
07:25:02  <Markk> No, it's not really, just wanted to check.
07:25:31  <Markk> Yep, I'm cloning all of them, but it would save some time to just have to press one button instead of three :)
07:26:49  <Alberth> for trains going to the same destination, I often clone even when the source station is different
07:27:04  <Markk> Same here
07:27:07  <andythenorth> curious, why does it need to unload?
07:27:26  <andythenorth> I never have any use for unload, except testing newgrf cargo sprites
07:27:35  <Markk> I leave a sticky window open with the same type of train, when building feeder systems
07:27:57  <andythenorth> if it's feeder, just use 'transfer' which defaults to 'leave empty'
07:28:02  <Markk> andythenorth: It's mostly an OCD, which comes from sometime using the same station for unloading and loading.
07:28:02  <Alberth> without cargod-dist I assume?
07:28:08  <andythenorth> if you're using cdist, just use 'no loading'
07:28:35  <Markk> Yes, when using transfer it's leaving empty as standard.
07:28:59  <Markk> I'm not using anything else than the standard OpenTTD, but with my own settings
07:29:40  <Markk> I'm just a casual player and has played OpenTTD since 2005, so not really advanced, I just find this game really relaxing
07:30:34  <Markk> My OCD can get really calm from building an efficient and beautiful system :)
07:32:38  <Alberth> yep, you can watch for hours how trains move :)
07:33:32  <andythenorth> hmm
07:33:35  <andythenorth> supply wagons
07:33:46  <andythenorth> probably need tractors and stuff as loads
07:33:48  <Markk> Yeah, really nice when you have built a nice system, that can run by itself without much micro-managing and just follow them around :)
07:33:52  <Alberth> big supply?
07:34:16  <andythenorth> tractors tend not to be symmetrical, and my cargo processors demands symmetry
07:36:57  <Alberth> transformer is symmetrical
07:37:02  <andythenorth> this is true
07:37:11  <andythenorth> also tarpaulins and crates make nice loads :P
07:37:32  <andythenorth> I can teach the cargo processor asymmetry, I'd just rather avoid it right now
07:37:59  <Alberth> ah, that would be the proper solution :p
07:38:10  <andythenorth> 'later'
07:38:20  <TrueBrain> wait ... who here is making proper solutions?!
07:38:30  <TrueBrain> what can I do to avoid that?
07:38:54  <Alberth> stay busy!  :)
07:39:18  <andythenorth>
07:39:30  <Alberth> pyup isn't helping there, I think :p
07:39:31  <andythenorth> that's just the piece cargos part of the processor ^ :P
07:40:05  <andythenorth> 110 lines to save drawing stuff on flat wagons
07:40:41  <andythenorth> a lot of it is just declarative crap for bounding boxes :D
07:40:49  <Alberth> hmm, it could use some 'empty line' instances here and there
07:41:59  <andythenorth> it could also be split into multiple functions
07:42:09  <andythenorth> but eh, abstraction is not always more readable
07:43:54  <Alberth> but basically, you're using the same cargo sprite for -> and <- views ?
07:44:22  <andythenorth> yes
07:44:31  <Alberth> (just random guessing, code is too complicated to understand that fast)
07:44:33  <andythenorth> I can extend it in future, it's trivial-ish
07:44:48  <andythenorth> I can set an asymmetry boolean
07:45:00  <andythenorth> and then conditionally slice out 4 or 8 sprites as needed
07:45:05  <andythenorth> just faff
07:45:24  <Alberth> I would probably have implemented asymmetry at first, and detect lack of sprites or such, and fallback
07:46:01  <andythenorth> that might work too
07:46:18  <TrueBrain> I am looking for a name to describe a service .. it gets events from what is happening, and it can poll a system to check what is configured ..
07:46:29  <TrueBrain> 'status' feels weird ..
07:46:37  <TrueBrain> 'events' is too generic
07:46:44  <Alberth> what does it do?
07:46:57  <andythenorth> is it a monitor daemon?
07:46:59  <TrueBrain> it digests the information, in the most generic sense
07:47:03  <TrueBrain> monitor, hmm, that works
07:47:05  <Alberth> right now, it sounds like a data collector
07:47:16  <andythenorth> it's a subscribed monitor?
07:47:23  <andythenorth> or a scheduled monitor?
07:47:25  <Alberth> tracker
07:47:31  <TrueBrain> its not only a data collector, as it can also poll the system
07:47:39  <TrueBrain> tracker is also nice
07:47:49  <andythenorth> watcher
07:48:07  <TrueBrain> hmm .. even beter ..
07:48:16  <TrueBrain> at least, so much better than my 'status' :D
07:49:46  <andythenorth> hmm, when I look in the graphics processor....I find I shouldn't
07:50:07  <Alberth> yes
07:50:30  <Alberth> add pixels instead
07:50:38  <andythenorth> it's basically automating what I would manually do in photoshop
07:51:01  <andythenorth> so it's long, and not actually very complex
07:51:04  <andythenorth> just very verbose
07:51:15  <Alberth> doing it manually is too much work by definition
07:51:50  <andythenorth> it has that air of "surely this should all just be a few functions with parameters"
07:51:55  <andythenorth> but I don't think that would work
07:54:53  <andythenorth> hmm
07:55:06  <andythenorth> supply car loads are also date-dependent :P
07:55:15  <andythenorth> tractors in 1900 are not like tractors in 1990
07:55:15  <Alberth> :o
07:55:24  <andythenorth> something to consider eh
07:56:23  <Alberth> somewhat
07:59:05  <Alberth> you don't make several wagon generations?
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08:01:17  <Wolf01> o/
08:02:21  <Alberth> o/
08:02:58  <andythenorth> 6 wagon generations
08:03:08  <andythenorth> they'd need different input cargo sprites
08:03:29  <andythenorth> suggests a dedicated processor for these wagons
08:03:30  <Wolf01> Opened the Bugatti box, my friend was giggling like a girl
08:05:50  <Alberth> having lots of fun thus :)
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08:07:19  <Alberth> refactor the "position sprite and copy it into place" out the existing one?
08:07:51  <andythenorth> maybe yes
08:07:55  <andythenorth> seems like a generic method
08:10:29  <Wolf01> <- python
08:12:11  <Alberth> I could probably write that book :)
08:12:17  <Wolf01> :D
08:14:08  <andythenorth> oof
08:14:17  <andythenorth> there are a lot lines in this file
08:14:19  <Alberth> there isn't much Python specific there, it's all low-level OS, accessed from Python
08:14:27  <andythenorth> I don't usually leave commented code behind
08:14:34  <andythenorth> but they are essential for debugging
08:14:48  <Alberth> yeah, I do tend to leave debugging lines in the code
08:15:18  <Alberth> at least in Python
08:15:33  <andythenorth> I could delete them and reinsert later
08:15:45  <andythenorth> but even figuring out where to reinsert is work :P
08:15:47  <Alberth> Otherwise I just write them at exactly the same place at a later time :p
08:16:41  <Alberth> but I do update comment lines too when changing code
08:22:23  * andythenorth puts supplies graphics in brain for later
08:22:32  <andythenorth> sometimes problems aren't solved by working on them
08:25:08  <Alberth> indeed
08:25:31  <TrueBrain> meh; travis doesnt want to work it seems :(
08:25:37  <Alberth> it doesn't work for problems like wanting more tea, however
08:25:41  <TrueBrain> LordAro: I have a review job in DorpsGek-github for you! :P (or anyone else)
08:26:37  <Wolf01> <andythenorth> but they are essential for debugging <- I'm commenting a lot of code because I can't even understand what it does on the software I work on
08:28:49  <andythenorth> :P
08:29:05  <Alberth> ha :)
08:29:12  <andythenorth> do the tests still pass after you commented it? o_O
08:30:54  <Wolf01> I hate when the boss/analyst says "I want a form which does the preview of the services bills" where services are something you must bill after the use, as you can't know how much of them you use, but you can see the history and try to create some data from it
08:32:02  <andythenorth> I probably shouldn't eh
08:33:48  <Wolf01> Why not? 128/8 :P
08:34:52  <andythenorth> I was considering buying it
08:34:54  <andythenorth> :P
08:35:08  <Wolf01> :D
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08:42:36  <Wolf01> V453000: research queue, if it seem useful in late game, why not make it a research for late game?
08:46:12  <andythenorth> errr
08:46:35  <andythenorth> are supplies wagons a valid use for cargo subtypes?
08:46:43  <andythenorth> engineering supplies (trucks)
08:46:53  <andythenorth> engineering supplies (diggers)
08:47:05  <andythenorth> or should it just be random
08:47:53  <nielsm> imo random
08:48:17  <Wolf01> +1
08:48:44  <andythenorth> and should the vehicles be flippable?
08:48:57  <andythenorth> flip is quite a lot of work to support
08:49:09  <andythenorth> but it's also copy-paste at this point :P
08:57:59  <Wolf01> :O
08:58:31  <andythenorth> eh not bad
08:58:41  <andythenorth> for 6/8 wide
08:58:41  <Wolf01> Even the logo is brick built
08:58:53  <Wolf01> 6 wide
08:59:17  <Wolf01> I've seen some 7 wide which are really perfect
09:03:19  <andythenorth> is it annoying when wagon capacities increase for new generations?
09:03:30  <andythenorth> messes with total route capacity
09:03:42  <Wolf01> It is annoying to have new generations
09:03:53  <Wolf01> I want an infinite steam era
09:05:42  <andythenorth> idea
09:05:53  <andythenorth> I'm offering 6 generations
09:06:32  <andythenorth> parameters (6 of them) to set the intro year for each generation?
09:06:45  <andythenorth> ugly UI, but valuable?
09:07:09  <Wolf01> Yeah, 1850-3000, 3001, 3002, 3003, 3004, 3005
09:07:14  <andythenorth> hmm
09:07:22  <andythenorth> dunno if action 14 supports it
09:07:29  <andythenorth> I'd need a default value
09:07:47  <Alberth> gives people choice when to play
09:08:01  <andythenorth> the default value might change per roster
09:08:04  <andythenorth> is the challenge
09:08:05  <Alberth> intro year 1800 + n*10  :)
09:08:33  <andythenorth> maybe just a scaling parameter then?
09:08:41  <andythenorth> generations are spaced ~30 years
09:08:53  <Alberth> would work too
09:09:55  <Alberth> ha, disable new generations when you don't have servicing :p
09:10:14  <andythenorth> :P
09:10:50  <andythenorth> parameter: "Generations: all | 1 | 2 | 3 | 4 | 5 | 6"
09:10:52  <andythenorth> :P
09:11:26  <andythenorth> sometimes I think a tech tree would be useful
09:11:30  <andythenorth> 'epoch'
09:11:38  <nielsm> "all vehicles", "just the ones you'd be using at end game""
09:11:40  <andythenorth> GS controllable
09:12:20  <andythenorth> offering new vehicles is an interesting reward for goal completion
09:12:30  <Alberth> indeed it is
09:12:35  <andythenorth> but GS cannot reliably do that per-vehicle (no knowledge of newgrf contents)
09:12:48  <andythenorth> so set a hard goal, and unlock next generation of vehicles
09:12:53  <Alberth> can't talk to newgrf :(
09:12:59  <andythenorth> I think it would be quite a straightforward gameplay style
09:13:09  <andythenorth> "Complete 6 hard challenges to unlock all vehicles"
09:13:17  <andythenorth> "Then you win"
09:13:30  <andythenorth> Oh a boss level challenge #7 also
09:13:31  <nielsm> well what would a GS-NewGRF interface look like, something message passing based I assume?
09:13:43  <andythenorth> nielsm: I would think cruder than that
09:13:56  <andythenorth> something more like a 'current technology epoch'
09:14:10  <andythenorth> and then have newgrf vehicles define what epoch they belong to
09:14:33  <andythenorth> this also then meets the major use-case for daylenght
09:14:35  <nielsm> hmm that could also be used for newgrf houses to change town looks etc
09:14:38  <andythenorth> yes
09:14:46  <andythenorth> and for industry waves
09:14:55  <andythenorth> currently, it's pointless evolving industries over time
09:14:57  <Alberth> basically you can ask pre-defined questions, I think
09:15:08  <andythenorth> it just breaks the game to use date restrictions on industry
09:15:44  <nielsm> absolutely
09:15:59  <andythenorth> intro dates could be set as offsets from epoch  (for vehicles, industries, houses)
09:16:02  <nielsm> players (i.e. me) want to play around and perfect a setup and then go ahead
09:16:18  <nielsm> not be forced into something upsetting things
09:16:23  <andythenorth> bonus: forums can spend ages arguing about some stupid epoch scheme
09:16:34  <andythenorth> actually, there would be 2 competing ones
09:16:44  <andythenorth> and someone annoying would rage quit
09:16:49  <andythenorth> so community renewal too :D
09:17:34  <andythenorth> I've never written a spec because I never figured out how many epochs there should be
09:18:06  <andythenorth> my sets focus on 1860-2050
09:18:19  <andythenorth> but it seems valid to start at 0 and run to max game date
09:18:52  <andythenorth> so actually it's a really *hard* problem :D
09:19:42  <andythenorth> arbitrary tech levels, 0-255? o_O
09:20:19  <nielsm> but then you can't have a tech tree??
09:20:39  <andythenorth> it's a challenge eh :)
09:20:46  <andythenorth> it's fine if someone just decides
09:20:55  <andythenorth> but how to decide? o_O
09:21:39  <andythenorth> what would default epochs be if there was no GS controlling it?
09:22:30  <Alberth> every 25-ish years
09:23:11  <andythenorth> and the baseline year?
09:23:18  <Alberth> or "intro dates"
09:23:51  <andythenorth>
09:24:11  <nielsm> yeah I think it'd be better to have "no epochs" if there is no GS
09:24:47  <Alberth> define start of new epoch as intro of a vehicle
09:24:53  <nielsm> otoh, what happens if you use a non-epoch-supporting grf with a epoch-requiring GS?
09:24:55  <andythenorth> ok, so then it falls back to vehicle intro date nielsm? o_O
09:25:08  <Alberth> you can't agree on a year, as it differs from country to country
09:25:15  <andythenorth> we could reverse-calculate epoch based on intro date tbh
09:25:22  <andythenorth> then re-space the tech tree
09:25:34  <andythenorth> it's just a transform eh
09:25:42  <Alberth> epochs don't need to be all the same length
09:26:01  <andythenorth> I think if they're GS controlled, then varying the length is a positive
09:26:12  <andythenorth> ok so this would be progressive enhancement on top of intro dates
09:26:25  <Alberth> definitely, GS would control progress :)
09:26:36  <andythenorth> and newgrf spec wouldn't even need changed
09:26:38  <nielsm> maybe the other way around, let GS query all defined vehicle types and if any single vehicle type does not support epochs it can disable itself
09:26:48  <nielsm> or maybe even let the GS control introduction of epoch-less vehicles?
09:26:55  <andythenorth> I think the latter
09:27:15  <andythenorth> just run over all the intro dates and assign them to lists of vehicles per epoch
09:27:43  <andythenorth> all old grfs are immediately compatible
09:28:12  * andythenorth going out for a few hours :)
09:28:13  <andythenorth> BBL
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09:30:11  <k-man> how do i enable the big graphics?
09:30:25  <nielsm> use a different baseset
09:30:37  <planetmaker> moin
09:30:50  <planetmaker> k-man, what is "big graphics" to you? You mean to zoom-in?
09:31:19  <planetmaker> that should be possible simply via mouse. If you want more detailed graphics (and not just enlarged), yes, might need to use different graphics set(s)
09:33:35  <k-man> i mean the OpenGFX BigGUI
09:34:07  <planetmaker> That's a NewGRF you need to enable
09:34:19  <TrueBrain> @mode -R
09:34:19  *** DorpsGek sets mode: -R 
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09:34:54  <TrueBrain> @mode +R
09:34:54  *** DorpsGek sets mode: +R 
09:35:00  <DorpsGek_II> Push to TrueBrain/Testing:testing (5190894) by TrueBrain:
09:35:00  <DorpsGek_II>   - More testing
09:35:04  <TrueBrain> taking opinions now
09:35:17  <planetmaker> take mine :P
09:35:42  <TrueBrain> is an URL useful?
09:36:22  <Wolf01> Mmmh
09:36:24  <planetmaker> where / for what?
09:36:38  <planetmaker> commits? Yes
09:36:57  <TrueBrain> what does it look like DorpsGek_II just said planetmaker? Connect the dotsssssss :D
09:37:22  <LordAro> TrueBrain: :o
09:37:42  <LordAro> (also bots should use NOTICE ;) )
09:37:50  <TrueBrain> why?
09:37:58  <TrueBrain> channel notices are really really REALLY annoying
09:38:18  <TrueBrain> (think they are even disabled?)
09:38:30  <LordAro> there's something in the spec - automated messages are supposed to be NOTICE
09:38:33  <k-man> planetmaker, sorry, i can't remmeber how to enable it
09:38:40  <LordAro> prevents bot loops
09:38:52  <planetmaker> k-man,
09:40:08  <Alberth> one of the more used links :)
09:40:31  <TrueBrain> LordAro: I know of none bot that does that; as a NOTICE is often handled by clients as a global broadcast .. which is very annoying
09:40:37  <planetmaker> opengfx+biggui's own readme should point to that... but doesn't
09:40:58  <LordAro> only by bad clients...
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09:41:39  <nielsm> I just tried using aBase for a bit, while it's fine that it has larghe icons by default, it works poorly with gui zoom factor, since that also scales the already large icons :(
09:42:04  <TrueBrain> LordAro: yeah ... just a simple google shows projects that tried NOTICE for .. 5 minutes, rolling back immediatly after :)
09:42:06  <TrueBrain> lets not do that
09:42:15  <TrueBrain> hmm, URL is tricky, as URL to what ..
09:42:31  <TrueBrain> if there is 1 commit, sure
09:42:35  <TrueBrain> but if it was a PR with multiple
09:42:37  <TrueBrain> hmm
09:42:40  <nielsm> link the PR?
09:42:43  <planetmaker> the latest git
09:42:43  <nielsm> if possible
09:42:46  <TrueBrain> is the source always a PR
09:42:53  <TrueBrain> it SHOULD, but ... :D
09:42:54  <LordAro> i can't say i've ever seen such an issue with notices
09:42:56  <LordAro> but sure, whatever
09:43:00  <k-man> but how do i turn on the biggui? i selected it in the newGRF settings page, but the graphics are still small
09:43:15  <TrueBrain> owh, even the GitHub IRC client doesn't do URLs for pushes :D
09:44:01  <TrueBrain> owh, there is a comparing URL
09:44:03  <TrueBrain> that works
09:44:50  <planetmaker> indeed I really like URLs in the commit notice. It's a BIG convenience thing
09:45:09  *** DorpsGek_II has quit IRC
09:45:13  <TrueBrain> @mode -R
09:45:13  *** DorpsGek sets mode: -R 
09:45:16  <planetmaker> I'm curious as to what is new. I want to look at it. Why have us jump, go all manual and find it? :)
09:45:16  *** DorpsGek_II has joined #openttd
09:45:19  <TrueBrain> @mode +R
09:45:19  *** DorpsGek sets mode: +R 
09:45:37  <TrueBrain> planetmaker: I never said I wont do an URL? Why jump to that conclusion? :D I am asking for input :)
09:45:38  <LordAro> could probably try keeping +R off now
09:45:44  <DorpsGek_II> [TrueBrain/Testing] Push to testing (5190894) by TrueBrain:
09:45:44  <DorpsGek_II>   - More testing
09:45:44  <DorpsGek_II>
09:45:58  <LordAro> 3 lines per commit seems a bit much
09:46:06  <TrueBrain> why?
09:46:09  <planetmaker> TrueBrain, I'm just saying GitHub bot does it wrong ;)
09:46:17  <TrueBrain> planetmaker: ah; sorry, that was a bit unclear to me :D
09:46:26  <TrueBrain> now help me do it better :P
09:46:50  <planetmaker> I think 2 lines would be enough. But I don't see how to squeeze the info into 3 lines :D
09:46:59  <planetmaker> the links are so lengthy :D
09:46:59  <TrueBrain> lines are just that, lines :D
09:47:06  <planetmaker> yeah
09:47:20  <LordAro> is there not a shorter url you can use?
09:47:23  <TrueBrain> yeah, github uses shortned URLs, but I find that often counter-productive
09:47:34  <planetmaker> why?
09:47:40  <TrueBrain> I am very scared to click them :D
09:47:46  <TrueBrain> you have no clue what the destination is!
09:48:01  <LordAro> only if it's a random link shortener
09:48:14  <LordAro> iirc github has something like
09:48:21  <LordAro> which seems pretty obvious
09:48:54  <LordAro> (i.e. random users cannot create urls for that domain)
09:49:09  <TrueBrain> yes you can; it is just always a URL
09:49:15  <planetmaker> seems to be as short as it gets
09:49:23  <TrueBrain> you can remove most of the hash
09:49:30  <TrueBrain> you need .. I think .. 11?
09:49:40  <LordAro> 6 or 7, iirc
09:49:52  <planetmaker> needs to stay unique
09:49:53  <TrueBrain> owh, 12
09:50:04  <TrueBrain> the chance of it not being unique is very very slim :)
09:50:14  <TrueBrain> you can see it with the compare URL :)
09:50:28  <LordAro> depends how many commits you have :p
09:50:36  <TrueBrain> no?
09:50:57  <TrueBrain> anyway, making shorten URLs is annoying as fuck .. not sure if it adds ..
09:51:13  <TrueBrain> (to get the URL, I need to make additional roundtrips)
09:51:26  <planetmaker> TrueBrain, why do you have *compare* in the link while I end up with *commit* when I seek a certain revision?
09:51:48  <TrueBrain> planetmaker: sorry, what do you mean?
09:52:19  <planetmaker>
09:52:27  <planetmaker>
09:52:44  <TrueBrain> a push event can contain multiple commits
09:52:50  <TrueBrain> a link for each commit might be a bit overdoing it
09:53:02  <TrueBrain> so github supplies a single URL that contains all the commits of that push
09:53:12  <planetmaker> Of course. Only one link. More is spam
09:53:18  <planetmaker> ah, ok. hm
09:53:26  <TrueBrain> we can say, of course, that if there is only 1 commit to link the commit
09:53:30  <TrueBrain> and if there are more, to use the compare
09:55:10  <TrueBrain> okay, added that in
09:55:18  <TrueBrain> best of both worlds \o/
09:55:47  <TrueBrain> LordAro: btw, to come back to collisions: the CHANCE on a collision is the same, no matter how many commits. The LIKELYHOOD increases.
09:55:56  <TrueBrain> you always have 1/6th chance you roll 6
09:56:00  <TrueBrain> no matter how many times you roll
09:56:38  <TrueBrain> (well, assuming it is a fair dice, ofc :D)
09:56:55  <TrueBrain> "Push to", sounds weird .. but it no longer is "commit"
09:57:26  <LordAro> TrueBrain: yeah, i misspoke. this was what i was thinking of though
09:59:18  <TrueBrain> github is weird .. even a sha has of 4 chars it accepts :P
09:59:35  <LordAro> if it's not ambiguous, why not?
10:00:06  <TrueBrain> if it is ambiguous, it shows 404 :D
10:00:08  <TrueBrain> haha
10:00:09  <TrueBrain> that is cheap
10:01:00  <planetmaker> that's fair dice :)
10:02:02  <TrueBrain> I wonder if I should color the message
10:02:09  <TrueBrain> not a big fan myself
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10:03:13  <TrueBrain> @mode -R
10:03:13  *** DorpsGek sets mode: -R 
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10:03:22  <DorpsGek_II> [TrueBrain/Testing] Push to testing (5190894a857e) by TrueBrain:
10:03:22  <DorpsGek_II>   - More testing (Patric Stout)
10:03:22  <DorpsGek_II>
10:03:30  <TrueBrain> meh, full name .. that is annoying
10:03:49  <TrueBrain> easy fix
10:03:59  <TrueBrain> it now shows who pushed it (a dev), after 'by'
10:04:03  <TrueBrain> and per commit who the author was
10:04:32  <TrueBrain> is that any better?
10:07:11  <LordAro> is the hash on the first line useful? it's duplicated in the url
10:07:33  <TrueBrain> ack
10:08:51  <k-man> hmmm, still the opengfx_biggui doesn't work for me
10:09:00  <k-man> i've modified the config
10:09:10  <k-man> still doesn't show the bigger size graphics
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10:11:50  <DorpsGek_II> [TrueBrain/Testing] Push to testing by TrueBrain:
10:13:04  *** DorpsGek_II has quit IRC
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10:13:10  <DorpsGek_II> [TrueBrain/Testing] Push to testing by TrueBrain:
10:13:10  <DorpsGek_II>   - More testing (by TrueBrain)
10:13:10  <DorpsGek_II>
10:13:30  <TrueBrain> right, that should do for now .. lets make this into a production-like state :)
10:13:34  *** DorpsGek_II has quit IRC
10:13:37  <TrueBrain> @mode +R
10:13:37  *** DorpsGek sets mode: +R 
10:14:32  <TrueBrain> and why is Travis not working :(
10:14:58  <TrueBrain> it reads: "booting" ....
10:15:17  <LordAro> what are you using travis for?
10:15:43  <LordAro> it sometimes takes a while to start up, depending on contention, how long have you been waiting for?
10:15:57  <TrueBrain> 3 hours
10:16:02  <TrueBrain> you think that is reasonable?
10:16:06  <LordAro> nope
10:16:07  <TrueBrain> (if only I was new to this stuff :P)
10:16:07  <LordAro> :p
10:21:46  <TrueBrain> status of travis clearly shows an issue ... more and more jobs are queued :P
10:24:26  <TrueBrain> LordAro: if you are bored, or just want to be nice, there are PRs in DorpsGek-github and DorpsGek-irc on OpenTTD space; I could really use some feedback
10:25:46  <TrueBrain> and the temperature in this room is too high to be functional for much longer .. ugh :P
10:26:41  <TrueBrain> LordAro: PS: the only thing "wrong" in the PRs, is that it doesn't use .dorpsgek.yml yet to know in which channel to tell about pushes etc
10:26:53  <TrueBrain> I still have to think about how to fix that .. I think I do need a shared library after all ..
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10:32:42  <planetmaker> k-man, you need to close OpenTTD. Then edit the config file accordingly. Then restart OpenTTD
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10:33:22  <madmax28> Hello :) How come fast-forward with tab doesn't work with my debug build?
10:33:41  <nielsm> in debug builds it's shift and not tab, for some reason
10:33:59  <nielsm> and also, debug builds tend to be seriously slow and fast forward often has little to no effect ;)
10:34:06  <planetmaker> ^^
10:34:40  <madmax28> I see, well it's still useful for debugging
10:35:18  <madmax28> I'm a new player, and I struggled *a lot* with timetabling...
10:35:34  <planetmaker> so do experienced players :)
10:35:56  <madmax28> I found out that if a timetable is not fully timetabled, and you use ctrl-click trying to timetable shared order vehicles, it will fail silently
10:36:39  <madmax28> In timetable_cmd.cpp there is a check for that case, where it tries to return an error in that case
10:37:09  <madmax28> But that check is never triggered, because timetable_gui.cpp also performs the check and simply removes the ctrl-click bit
10:37:38  <planetmaker> as you describe it, it sounds like a bug :)
10:38:00  <madmax28> I removed that but in timetable_gui.cpp. Now an error is generated in that case. Is this something people might want to get merged?
10:38:04  <madmax28> that bit*
10:41:00  <planetmaker> I think it might make sense to inform the user that an action has no or not the intended consequence.
10:50:41  <k-man> planetmaker, i did, several times
10:54:17  <planetmaker> did you edit the correct config file? OpenTTD can and does read from several locations... if you edited the one not being used... it would not have any effect
11:00:53  <k-man> planetmaker, i think its the correct one, as when i re-examine the file, the setting gets a long number prepended to it
11:01:19  <k-man> like: 52577801|20B5D8122F2B4AD74ADDA30E44BA8233|opengfx_biggui-2.0.0/ogfx-biggui.grf = 1
11:02:53  <planetmaker> opengfx_biggui-2.0.0/ogfx-biggui.grf = 1
11:02:59  <planetmaker> should suffice?
11:03:15  <k-man> yeah, openttd, prepends that number infront if it after i run it
11:03:21  <planetmaker> ah, ok
11:03:26  <planetmaker> then it should be ok
11:03:32  <planetmaker> and the one being used
11:03:38  <k-man> hmmm
11:03:55  <k-man> can i get openttd to give more debugging output?
11:05:07  <k-man> in game options, it says OpenGFX is the base graphics set.
11:05:07  <planetmaker> -d grf=9 will spam you :)
11:05:09  <k-man> is that corrct?
11:05:19  <planetmaker> dunno whether it's correct. Probably
11:05:32  <planetmaker> but doesn't matter really for the newgrf usage
11:05:57  <k-man> dbg: [grf] GRFInfo: Loaded GRFv7 set 52577801 - OpenGFX BigGUI 2.0.0 (palette: DOS, version: 19)
11:06:13  <planetmaker> btw, opengfx+biggui, does NOT enlarge the buttons on the start screen. For those you need to edit the font size
11:06:13  <k-man> seems like its loaded
11:06:22  <k-man> oh
11:06:26  <planetmaker> you need to actually load a savegame to see an enlargement
11:06:39  <k-man> ok
11:06:56  <planetmaker> so maybe enlarge the used font sizes, too :D
11:07:10  <planetmaker> which means you'll need to choose a font, too
11:07:42  <k-man> hmm, no, the buttons are all still small
11:07:58  <k-man> i had it working before on a build of openttd from source. but i wanted to drop back to released version
11:08:37  <planetmaker> should still be correct for showing how to change font and size
11:09:51  <k-man> yeah, i read that
11:10:01  <k-man> and made the font changes
11:12:08  <k-man> ok, i increased font sizes, that part is working
11:12:31  <k-man> oh, i found it
11:12:38  <k-man> you have to go to game settings/ interface size
11:12:40  <k-man> and change that
11:16:06  <k-man> thanks for your help planetmaker
11:51:20  <k-man> how do i place signals all the way along the line?
11:52:39  <peter1138> Click and drag.
11:55:47  <k-man> i thought there was a way to place signals along the whole path
11:55:51  <k-man> automatically
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12:18:37  <k-man> ctrl+click and drag seems to do it
12:25:26  <planetmaker> k-man, make use of the tooltips by hovering the mouse over buttons :) They often explain the button's normal function as well as in conjuction with ctrl
12:28:23  <peter1138> Does it need ctrl? Hmm.
12:32:35  <planetmaker> might. I think w/o ctrl it drags along the strech you dragged. with ctrl to the next junction
12:34:30  <peter1138> Ah
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12:59:37  <Alberth> o/
13:00:14  <Wolf01> o/
13:03:06  <nielsm> annoying you can't report a forum topic for spam without opening it
13:03:30  <nielsm> I don't want to open it and risk hitting their embedded images
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13:10:12  <andythenorth> o/
13:10:55  <Wolf01> o/
13:11:27  <andythenorth> I have done responsible parenting
13:11:31  <andythenorth> now I must to draw pixels
13:14:20  <andythenorth> looks like supplies cargo is solved
13:14:43  <andythenorth> this one might clip bridges
13:15:36  <Wolf01> :P
13:26:03  <Alberth> more likely bridges clip the cargo :p
13:27:11  <Alberth> ie something's got to move, and it aint the bridge
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13:35:16  <peter1138> Bridges aren't high enough? Just like TTD?
13:54:42  <andythenorth> is it coffee time?
13:57:34  <Alberth> looks like it is
13:58:06  <andythenorth> must be
13:58:24  * andythenorth needs coffee to write graphics pipelines
14:08:03  <Wolf01> I had my coffee and I only want to sleep
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15:44:18  <Afdal> Why'd this change to a registered nicks only channel :'(
15:45:51  <andythenorth> spam
15:46:36  <Afdal> Anyone without making me go dig into my old newgrf modding
15:46:49  <Afdal> could someone tell me what the maximum power is that a train engine can have?
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15:52:09  <madmax28> Hmm, when i configure OpenTTD with --enable-debug=3 (to turn off optimizations), the game won't run from gdb.. Any ideas why?
15:52:25  <madmax28> Or is it just taking ages? :)
16:03:49  <LordAro> madmax28: it's just taking ages :)
16:03:56  <LordAro> debug builds are *big*
16:04:57  <madmax28> LordAro: Then printf debugging will have to do ;)
16:05:32  <LordAro> although i wouldn't expect it to take >5mins
16:05:56  <madmax28> Hacking OpenTTD is fun! :) What do you think about this idea?:
16:06:18  <Alberth> tracing arbitrary access to a variable may be slow
16:14:02  <Afdal> It's 65,535 hp isn't it...
16:20:02  <peter1138> Yeah, I dunno why it takes so long with enable-debug=3 and gdb.
16:20:14  <peter1138> About a couple of minutes to start on my i7-8700k...
16:20:34  <peter1138> Once it's started it's fine. Debug sluggish but not unusable.
16:33:07  <andythenorth> meh
16:33:10  <andythenorth> hot here
16:39:29  <TrueBrain> so with all the spam, when are we moving to Slack? :P
16:39:34  <TrueBrain> or Discord?
16:40:23  <andythenorth> there's no spam on slack? :o
16:40:28  <andythenorth> is it magic?
16:40:51  <TrueBrain> because you need to register an account, I would assume they can mitigate that easier
16:40:59  <TrueBrain> but, it is an assumption :D
16:45:14  <Afdal> Discord = datamining central
16:45:20  <Afdal> How about we move to Matrix
16:49:12  <LordAro> pretty sure you can try removing +R now
16:51:10  <TrueBrain> you can always try ;)
16:51:24  <LordAro> no, i can't :p
16:51:34  <TrueBrain> you can TRY
16:51:38  <TrueBrain> :D
16:51:41  <LordAro> :P
16:59:44  <TrueBrain> yippie, my bot now listens to .dorpsgek.yml to see where it should announce stuff
16:59:47  <TrueBrain> that I like a lot more :D
17:08:52  <TrueBrain> and yippie, travis is back on its feet!
17:14:40  <TrueBrain> this made me giggle: Fix Dutch language! THE DUTCH LANGUAGE IS UNFIXABLE! :D
17:16:16  <Afdal>
17:16:41  <TrueBrain> LordAro: with what can I bribe you to look at my changes? :D
17:17:05  <LordAro> TrueBrain: an extra few hours in the day?
17:17:14  <TrueBrain> I was afraid of that :P
17:17:29  <TrueBrain> we need more (active) Python people :D
17:18:09  <andythenorth> :P
17:18:16  <Afdal> oh wait Dutch is different from Danish?
17:18:18  <andythenorth> I nominate.....Alberth?
17:18:20  <andythenorth> :P
17:18:21  <Afdal> I never knew this...
17:18:30  <TrueBrain> Alberth is not here!
17:18:34  <TrueBrain> owh, he is
17:18:37  <TrueBrain> hihi :D
17:18:50  <TrueBrain> for some reason I did not see that when I looked at the nicklist :( SORRY!!!
17:19:54  <Alberth> mostly just lurking, hacking python to understand grf
17:19:58  <LordAro> Afdal:
17:20:51  <TrueBrain> today I saw a movie about RCT (the first version) .. it made me giggle how much it looked like TT :)
17:20:56  <TrueBrain> totally forgot about that
17:20:59  <Alberth> it misses frisian as not-dutch :)
17:22:59  <Afdal> lol at Denmark
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17:25:59  <TrueBrain> hmm, weird, your approval ( LordAro ) is not sufficient for me to submit it .. nowhere I see an option that the approval has to be of a dedicated group or something
17:26:01  <TrueBrain> bit weird
17:26:09  <PT_> Hello there :)
17:26:51  <TrueBrain> LordAro: funny, you first had to be a collaberator :D
17:26:53  <TrueBrain> PT_: hi
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17:28:01  <LordAro> TrueBrain: haha
17:28:54  <PT_> Do Github notifications get posted here?
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17:30:43  <TrueBrain> they do in #openttd.notice (for now)
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18:40:18  <TrueBrain> @mode -R
18:40:18  *** DorpsGek sets mode: -R 
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18:48:58  <TrueBrain> okay, DorpsGek updates deployed .. now lets enable it :)
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18:51:00  <DorpsGek_II> [OpenTTD/DorpsGek-github] Push to master by TrueBrain:
18:51:00  <DorpsGek_II>   - Add: notify IRC about pushes to this repository (by TrueBrain)
18:51:00  <DorpsGek_II>
18:51:21  <TrueBrain> I like the host DorpsGek_II has :D
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18:55:30  <TrueBrain> Pull Request support is relative easy now, but one step at the time :)
18:57:02  <DorpsGek_II> [OpenTTD/DorpsGek-irc] Push to master by TrueBrain:
18:57:02  <DorpsGek_II>   - Add: notify IRC about pushes to this repository (by TrueBrain)
18:57:02  <DorpsGek_II>
18:57:05  <Xaroth>, lolz
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18:59:28  <TrueBrain> okay, PR for OpenTTD is also there; that just needs approval
18:59:41  *** _23321 has joined #openttd
18:59:58  <Eddi|zuHause2> TrueBrain: can you have DorpsGek_II msg DorpsGek and he repeats the message here, instead of constantly joining and leaving?
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19:00:23  <TrueBrain> no
19:00:34  <TrueBrain> (well, that was an easy question/answer) :D
19:00:43  <Eddi|zuHause2> not a particularly satisfying one :p
19:00:56  <Eddi|zuHause2> i can't imagine that being difficult
19:01:01  *** Eddi|zuHause2 is now known as Eddi|zuHause
19:01:22  <TrueBrain> a lot of people imagine a lot of things; yet nobody is willing to help me out *shrug*
19:01:29  <TrueBrain> but your solution is also based on faulty information :)
19:01:40  <TrueBrain> so you might be surprised how it really works, versus how you assumed it does :D
19:01:48  <Eddi|zuHause> that might be
19:02:07  <Eddi|zuHause> but at this pace, we're not converging on a common understanding of the problem :p
19:02:38  <TrueBrain> I just adjusted to the normal standards of this channel :P
19:02:48  <TrueBrain> anyway, DorpsGek_II is linked to a CD
19:02:52  <TrueBrain> so when ever you merge something in master
19:02:57  <TrueBrain> it ends up, for now, directly in production
19:03:10  <TrueBrain> so as soon as it was done reporting he himself got changed, he was restarted with the latest code :P
19:03:14  <TrueBrain> (hence him leaving)
19:03:22  <Xaroth> deploying straight to production, because who needs acceptance tests :D
19:03:23  <TrueBrain> he wont join back unless he has something to say .. he is lazy like that
19:03:38  <TrueBrain> Xaroth: welcome to the list of dickheads :)
19:03:46  <Xaroth> You had that one coming!
19:03:52  <Eddi|zuHause> plenty of those going around :p
19:04:03  <TrueBrain> yeah .. a bit the common problem in OpenTTD .. a lot of "you had that coming", very little "let me help you"
19:04:36  *** nielsm has joined #openttd
19:05:34  <Xaroth> Tell you what; remind me when I'm back from the UK next week and I'll dedicate some time in assisting with whatever needs assistance at that point.
19:05:51  <TrueBrain> I would like an icecream :)
19:06:16  <Eddi|zuHause> i have one of those, should i mail it to you?
19:06:19  <Xaroth> If you didn't live so far away, and I wasn't so bloody lazy, I would have driven to a McDonalds close to your house and bring you a McFlurry.
19:06:26  <TrueBrain> <3
19:08:48  <TrueBrain> Eddi|zuHause: was that answer btw more stisfying? :D
19:10:02  *** andythenorth_ has joined #openttd
19:10:27  <Eddi|zuHause> a bit
19:11:25  <TrueBrain> I guess it is better than not :D
19:11:58  <TrueBrain> I want to try to move BaNaNaS to GCP CDN .. but not sure how to start :D
19:15:12  <TrueBrain> and I am really surprised how easy kubernetes is once you have it setup .. so smoottthhhhh
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19:22:53  <LordAro> TrueBrain: what was result of talks with GCP?
19:23:14  <TrueBrain> last talk we had was 2 weeks ago; heard nothing so far
19:23:19  <TrueBrain> assume it is somewhere in their pipeline
19:23:26  <TrueBrain> will drop them a message next week to see how it is going
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19:24:58  <TrueBrain> but we have the free trial for now, so that is a good moment to test how stuff works
19:25:05  <LordAro> :)
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19:35:01  <andythenorth> so how to partial load something like a bulldozer? :P
19:35:07  <andythenorth> it's indivisible cargo
19:42:47  <Eddi|zuHause> so i'm gone for a few days and andy descended into brand new holes of madness?
19:43:37  <TrueBrain> andythenorth: so you cannot partial load it/ :D
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19:47:58  <andythenorth> Eddi|zuHause: it's an old old problem
19:48:06  <andythenorth> same issue with something vanilla, like a steel coil
19:48:14  <andythenorth> if there's only 1, what's the 'loading' state :P
19:48:32  <Eddi|zuHause> how is that a problem?
19:48:35  <TrueBrain> you can only also load 1?
19:48:38  <nielsm> maybe have those cargos produced in small unit counts but weigh a lot and pay a lot on delivery?
19:48:51  <Eddi|zuHause> you either show one or you don't
19:49:29  <peter1138> andythenorth, loading equipment
19:49:29  <TrueBrain> so you want to show the progress how far that loading of 1 is :D
19:50:07  <andythenorth> oof
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19:50:39  <andythenorth> so we're filing it under non-problem
19:52:31  <TrueBrain> so we give 3 solutions, and you dismiss the problem .. that is not nice! :P
19:52:55  <andythenorth> I went with eddi's solution
19:53:06  <andythenorth> eddi has to be right sometimes
19:53:14  <TrueBrain> BUT WHY THIS TIME! :'(
19:53:16  <TrueBrain> :D
19:53:17  <TrueBrain> <3
19:53:31  <andythenorth> least work
19:53:43  <andythenorth> all I have to do is adjust my brain :D
19:53:50  <TrueBrain> expensive
19:53:52  <TrueBrain> :D
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20:02:08  <Eddi|zuHause> that is surprisingly difficult sometimes :p
20:02:44  <Eddi|zuHause> now, there's a dead person in my paradox plaza...
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20:24:06  <andythenorth> hmm
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20:26:41  <peter1138> hmm
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20:43:58  <DorpsGek_II> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] Push to master by TrueBrain:
20:43:58  <DorpsGek_II>   - Add: notify IRC about pushes to this repository (by TrueBrain)
20:43:58  <DorpsGek_II>
20:45:00  <TrueBrain> still not happy with the first line .. "TrueBrain pushed N commits to master"
20:45:01  <TrueBrain> might be better
20:45:06  <TrueBrain> something to sleep on
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21:28:58  <Wolf01> 'night
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22:04:48  <k-man> how do i find a factory on my map?
22:05:24  <Eddi|zuHause> a specific one?
22:05:40  <Eddi|zuHause> there's the industry list, if you click the industry button at the top
22:06:01  <Eddi|zuHause> and on the map, you can switch to industry view, and enable/disable each kind of industry by clicking on it
22:06:09  <k-man> ah
22:06:11  <k-man> thanks
22:07:06  <Eddi|zuHause> particularly useful there is "blinking" by clicking on it repeatedly
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