Log for #openttd on 20th August 2018:
Times are UTC Toggle Colours
00:00:01  *** HerzogDeXtEr has quit IRC
00:27:05  *** KouDy has joined #openttd
00:31:33  *** KouDy has quit IRC
00:45:14  *** glx has quit IRC
00:50:05  *** KouDy has joined #openttd
00:53:41  *** Samu has quit IRC
01:11:56  <Eddi|zuHause> Wait For Money?
01:17:24  *** Thedarkb2-T60 has quit IRC
01:31:10  *** KouDy has quit IRC
01:59:15  *** OsteHovel has quit IRC
02:00:54  *** OsteHovel has joined #openttd
02:11:55  *** OsteHovel has quit IRC
02:13:37  *** OsteHovel has joined #openttd
02:35:34  *** Flygon has joined #openttd
03:50:43  *** KouDy has joined #openttd
04:05:10  *** haudrauf has quit IRC
04:06:16  *** haudrauf has joined #openttd
04:18:17  *** Supercheese has quit IRC
04:45:34  *** snail_UES_ has quit IRC
05:00:21  *** agentw4b__ has quit IRC
05:07:29  *** Wacko1976 has joined #openttd
05:29:16  *** Alberth has joined #openttd
05:29:16  *** ChanServ sets mode: +o Alberth
05:42:19  *** KouDy has quit IRC
06:07:20  *** keoz has joined #openttd
06:39:58  *** milek7 has joined #openttd
06:42:55  *** milek7_ has quit IRC
06:43:25  *** sla_ro|master has joined #openttd
06:43:35  *** KouDy has joined #openttd
07:27:52  *** WWacko1976-work has joined #openttd
07:35:07  *** sla_ro|master has quit IRC
07:39:24  *** Alberth has quit IRC
07:43:32  *** Samu has joined #openttd
07:43:37  <Samu> hi
07:44:45  <Samu> what does rawin and rawget do?
07:46:49  <Samu> and rawget
08:57:40  *** Wolf01 has joined #openttd
08:58:27  <Wolf01> Moin
09:05:23  <Samu> hi
09:37:20  *** keoz has quit IRC
09:49:50  *** OsteHovel has quit IRC
09:51:31  *** OsteHovel has joined #openttd
09:57:16  <Samu> can someone explain me this
09:57:22  <Samu> rawget and rawset
09:57:24  *** eirc has quit IRC
09:57:48  <Samu> 	this.distance_of_route.rawset(vehicle, AIMap.DistanceManhattan(tile_1, tile_2));
09:58:18  <Samu> and then somewhere else in the code
09:58:19  <Samu> 		local dist = this.distance_of_route.rawget(v);
09:59:23  <Samu> does that mean dist will be executing AIMap.DistanceManhattan(tile_1, tile_2)
09:59:34  <Samu> or does it get the value that was previously stored?
10:03:41  *** eirc has joined #openttd
10:04:58  *** eirc has quit IRC
10:05:18  *** eirc has joined #openttd
10:16:49  <Samu> "without employing delegation" - what does this mean?
10:17:31  <peter1138> What it says.
10:19:28  <Samu> explain me plz
10:21:14  <Samu> local dist = this.distance_of_route.rawget(v);
10:21:47  <Samu> local real_dist = AIMap.DistanceManhattan(order1_location, order2_location);
10:21:56  <Samu> assert(real_dist == dist);
10:22:05  <Samu> it never triggered
10:22:09  <Samu> why?
10:22:41  <Samu> i fail to understand what rawget and rawset is doing
10:22:42  <peter1138> I'd guess that real_dist and dist are not equal.
10:22:59  <Samu> they've been always equal
10:23:21  <Samu> sometimes it doesn't make sense that they're equal
10:23:27  <Samu> and yet, they are
10:38:05  *** Wacko1976 has quit IRC
11:19:00  *** eirc has quit IRC
11:19:15  *** eirc has joined #openttd
11:41:52  <Samu> ok, i'm about to finish these fixes
11:42:05  <Samu> the road component became a bit worse, for some reason :(
11:42:15  <Samu> but the air component became better
11:43:05  <Samu> i changed the way it evaluates towns for deploying bus or mail services
11:43:29  <Samu> instead of looking at town population, it looks at passenger or mail production
11:43:55  <Samu> apparently, this makes it do worse :(
11:44:04  <Samu> i expected the opposite
11:47:16  *** KouDy has quit IRC
12:39:37  *** eirc has quit IRC
12:48:55  *** eirc has joined #openttd
12:50:49  *** Wacko1976 has joined #openttd
12:55:28  *** snail_UES_ has joined #openttd
13:05:58  *** snail_UES_ has quit IRC
13:14:24  *** eirc has quit IRC
13:14:38  *** eirc has joined #openttd
13:15:29  *** Borg has joined #openttd
13:15:33  <Borg> heeeelp
13:15:38  <Borg> I have weird PF issue again
13:15:48  <Borg> anyone?
13:16:06  <LordAro> was it ever proved to be a PF issue, rather than a signalling issue?
13:17:14  <Borg> it is PF... it preffers path, that imo should be used as last resort
13:17:59  <Borg> ha! but fixed it
13:18:17  <Borg> weird to me.. but adding one way block signals fixed it
13:18:20  <Borg> wanna screenshot?
13:18:29  <LordAro> no, i want to continue to guess wildly
13:18:35  <Borg> ;)
13:19:49  <Samu> borg, are you creating an ai'
13:19:51  <Samu> ?
13:20:09  <Borg> Samu: no, just playing game
13:20:23  <Samu> oh
13:20:32  <Borg> LordAro:
13:21:05  <Borg> when I remove those 2 block signals on main path, trains somehow prefer to go via depot.. but it should be used only for train maintenance (goto depot on maint)
13:21:40  <Borg> adding them, fixed problem...
13:22:17  <Borg> not sure way tho.. since green lights does not count as negative penalty.
13:22:41  <LordAro> that'll probably be it
13:22:49  <LordAro> it gets them closer to the station
13:23:24  <Borg> well.. but there is no direct route.. they need to go thro depot
13:23:30  <Borg> and depot should be penalized?
13:23:40  <LordAro> depots are penalised, iirc
13:23:47  <Borg> yeah.. there is YAPF setting
13:23:57  <Borg> so.. wth there still goes via that route..
13:24:12  <Borg> yapf.rail_depot_reverse_penalty = 5000
13:24:18  <LordAro> but seriously, YAPF has been part of the game for over a decade with no significant issues - you've got signalling issues, not PF bugs
13:24:55  <Borg> yapf.maximum_go_to_depot_penalty = 2000
13:25:09  <Borg> LordAro: can u explain me then where the issue is in?
13:26:11  *** Thedarkb2-T60 has joined #openttd
13:28:08  <eirc> they have orders for that station?
13:28:18  <Borg> yes.. 3 orders
13:28:26  <Borg> total
13:28:39  <Borg> 1) goto that station (full load any)
13:28:45  <Borg> 2) goto to other station
13:28:50  <Borg> 3) goto to depot (maintenance)
13:29:05  <eirc> there's a way out of the station on the other side?
13:29:16  <eirc> towards the other station?
13:29:22  <Borg> erm
13:29:25  <Borg> let me do bigger screenshot
13:30:37  <Borg>
13:31:18  <Borg> so.. this is illogical to me.. except when depot penalty is not calculated..
13:32:20  <eirc> there are trains waiting on the signals in front?
13:32:33  <eirc> when the train makes the wrong decision
13:32:54  <eirc> if those are occupied then all that's left is the depot
13:32:59  <Borg> then the train makes wrong decision.. one track is occupied at station.. left one
13:33:06  <Borg> not really
13:33:31  <Borg> depot penalty is so big. it should not be choosed.. they should go straight.. as it happen when those block signals are there
13:33:45  <Borg> definitly.. something fishy is happening
13:33:55  <Borg> let me remove block signals.. and observe
13:34:26  <Borg> tada.. and he goes to the depot.. WHY WHYYYYYYYY
13:34:45  <eirc> there's no train waiting in the bays in front right?
13:35:01  <eirc> or just exiting maybe a part of it is blocking
13:35:56  <Borg> exit is never blocked. for now
13:36:00  <Borg> minimal traffic
13:36:54  <Borg> NOW!
13:37:02  <Borg> I will post extra screenshot
13:37:06  <eirc> if you have a train exiting but not full exited it's still blocking
13:37:15  <Borg> how it should work.. but w/o that extra signals
13:38:48  <Borg> LordAro:
13:38:52  <Borg> woops
13:38:57  <Borg>
13:39:06  <Borg> anyway.. this is how it should work....
13:39:36  <Borg> when those 2 block signals are there.. trains basicaly will always choose right patch.  and even when its totaly blocked.. they will just wait on that PBS..
13:39:45  <Borg> unless.. train needs maintenance.. it will go to depot
13:40:00  <eirc> in this last screenshot if you didnt have the extra signals both bays would be full
13:40:01  <Borg> now, if anyone can explain me.. why this dont happen when I remove those 2 block signals
13:40:18  <eirc> so train would only have the depot available
13:40:21  <Borg> eirc: I can bring more trains there.. everything will work still
13:40:27  <Borg> wait.. I will post 3th screenshot
13:40:37  <eirc> if you stop two trains behind those two
13:40:44  <eirc> and bring a 5th it will go to depot
13:40:58  <eirc> unless you make even more waiting bays
13:41:00  <Borg> lets see
13:41:05  <Borg> I guess probably he will not
13:41:29  <DorpsGek_II> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] YodasWs opened issue #6887: Add layer showing boundaries for local authorities
13:41:33  <Borg> NOPE.. he didnt go to depot :D as expected
13:41:34  <eirc> try this
13:41:38  <Borg> watch screenshot
13:42:02  <eirc> try removing ALL trains from the waiting bays
13:42:08  <eirc> and get a new train in
13:42:23  <Borg>
13:42:45  <Borg> when all bays at station and waiting tracks are clear.. train will go ok
13:42:57  <Borg> but as FAR as left station bay is occupied.. he goes via depot :/
13:43:32  <Borg> eirc: last screenshot.. train waiting there is AS expected.. because cost to depot is way too high..
13:43:38  <Borg> he should wait at PBS and bleed ;)
13:43:49  <Borg> now.. why this happens only. when I have those damn 2 block signals at waiting tracks
13:43:56  <Borg> once I remove them.. everything collapses ;/
13:45:41  <eirc> hmm here's an idea
13:45:58  <Borg> eirc: got 1.7.2 by chance? I can spawn server
13:45:58  <eirc> the depot seems to only be connected to the right station platform
13:46:05  <eirc> i'm at work :P
13:46:08  <Borg> this will be 10000 times easier to observe and debug
13:46:15  <eirc> try connecting it to the left one too
13:46:41  <Borg> eirc: hmm but I want it that way.. train from depot should not be on priority too much
13:47:02  <Borg> but lets see what it will change
13:47:48  <Borg> eirc: nothing changed
13:48:17  <Borg> when I only removed last block signal... those bastards started to go via depot
13:48:35  <Eddi|zuHause> Borg: did you change the penalties from the ingame console, or in the config file?
13:49:03  <Borg> Eddi|zuHause: yes, I have them slighty adjusted. true
13:49:27  <Borg> yapf.rail_look_ahead_signal_p0 = 500
13:49:27  <Borg> yapf.rail_look_ahead_signal_p1 = -100
13:49:28  <Borg> yapf.rail_look_ahead_signal_p2 = 0
13:49:36  <Eddi|zuHause> Borg: we need all of them
13:49:49  <eirc> depot = -1000 hahahaha
13:49:52  <Eddi|zuHause> Borg: that lookahead does not work with path signal
13:49:53  <Borg> yapf.rail_look_ahead_max_signals = 5
13:50:13  <Borg> eirc: hmm?
13:50:16  <Eddi|zuHause> Borg: the lookahead is meant to be a load balancing measure for block signals
13:51:08  <Eddi|zuHause> Borg: with path signals, the balancing is achieved with the path reservation penalty
13:51:22  <Borg> hmm, okey, lets remove block signal close to depot
13:52:12  <Borg> okey.. that fixed problem indeed
13:52:21  <Borg> now everything works as expected..
13:52:22  <Eddi|zuHause> (note that the path reservation penalty is also applied with block signals, as every train will reserve the tiles it stands on)
13:53:05  <Borg> but now.. I can scale up depot entry :/
13:53:10  <Borg> I cant I mean
13:53:28  <Eddi|zuHause> Borg: the penalties are hidden for a reason, because changing them will cause any number of weird side effects like this
13:54:04  <Borg> I think they arent that for now.. I just make curve a bit more aggresive.. you 100% sure that bringing them to default will fixe the issue?
13:54:08  <Borg> AFAIK p2=5
13:54:10  <Eddi|zuHause> Borg: you need to learn how the penalties are calculated, and how they are added up in each path
13:54:13  <Borg> thats defult
13:54:27  <Borg> well I did RTFS
13:54:32  <Borg> and I hope I understand that...
13:54:47  <Borg> I dont get why depot penalty = 2000 still does not overweight the path
13:54:49  <LordAro> defaults haven't been changed in over a decade
13:54:53  <LordAro> no one else complains :p
13:54:58  <Eddi|zuHause> Borg: you need to first be sure what you are actually trying to achieve
13:55:11  <Borg> LordAro: yeah, noone else means.. openttdcoop guys doing weird paths...
13:55:32  <LordAro> no, it really means no one else
13:55:39  <Borg> Eddi|zuHause: okey, I want this: 2 main tracks should be used always... depot track should be used ONLY for maintenance trains
13:56:02  <Borg> Eddi|zuHause: this works fine now.. when there is no block signals and no signals near depot..
13:56:16  <Eddi|zuHause> Borg: still, we need ALL your penalties
13:56:32  <Borg> BUT.. when I want to scale up depot service path.. I will add extra tracks and block signals.. and this will collapse unless I add block signals on main track too
13:57:09  *** keoz has joined #openttd
13:57:49  <Borg> Eddi|zuHause:
13:58:10  <Borg> so it seems I need to learn how to use block signals workarounds
13:58:26  <Borg> its ok.. I can pair block + pbs
14:00:08  <Eddi|zuHause> yapf.rail_firstred_exit_penalty = 0 <-- why?
14:00:49  <Borg> I dont remember.. its ooold config...
14:00:53  <Borg> what I should put here?
14:01:45  *** wodencafe has quit IRC
14:02:11  <Wolf01> We need a configurator for that stuff, I always broke things more than fixed every time I changed the values a bit
14:02:14  <Eddi|zuHause> should be 10000 i think
14:02:30  <Eddi|zuHause> the lastred also
14:02:45  <Eddi|zuHause> lastred_exit i mean
14:02:49  <Borg> Wolf01: well, I adjusted it long time ago.. and it worked very well..
14:03:00  <Borg> but.. stuff seems got broken abit w/ PBS
14:03:03  <Borg> w/ I love :)
14:03:05  <LordAro> Wolf01: "delete all pathfinder settings"
14:03:07  <LordAro> done.
14:03:20  <Wolf01> That's what I did every time
14:03:23  <Borg> Eddi|zuHause: okey, lets adjust that and see what happens
14:03:43  <Eddi|zuHause> anyway, a really awfully long time ago i put my depot penalty at 50000
14:03:59  <Eddi|zuHause> Borg: those two penalties probably don't affect your case
14:04:25  <Borg> yep.. it seems it dont
14:04:29  <Borg> lets wait for few trains tho
14:04:34  <Borg> first one already went to depot
14:04:48  <Borg> another one too
14:05:01  <Eddi|zuHause> Borg: you have a bunch of 0s around, that should never be done
14:05:11  <Eddi|zuHause> put it at 100 to negate the effect
14:05:18  <Borg> why? its ok.. because cost+=
14:05:26  <Borg> no.. 100 does NOT negate the efect
14:05:29  <Borg> 0 does
14:05:29  <Eddi|zuHause> 100 is one default tile
14:05:58  <Borg> but signal is not default tile
14:06:01  <Eddi|zuHause> yapf.rail_crossing_penalty = 0 <-- this means a road crossing has LESS penalty than a default tile
14:06:17  <Borg> Eddi|zuHause: this settings work very well..
14:06:28  <Borg> I had balance issues when I had road crossing on one of paths
14:06:35  <Eddi|zuHause> it's still not relevant to your case here, but it shows how careless you are with the settings
14:06:38  <Borg> and trains preffered the one w/o road corssing.. making jams
14:06:50  <Borg> please.. im not careless..
14:07:00  <Borg> Ive do extensive testings to understand the problem
14:07:04  <Borg> and 100 didnt worked..
14:07:06  <Borg> 0 worked
14:07:21  <eirc> presignals would work too ;)
14:07:39  <Borg> I stopped using presignals.. once I learned how PBS cool is
14:07:46  <Borg> I only use PBS + block signals
14:08:03  <Borg> and 95% of time PBS works damn amazing (after some tuning)
14:08:13  <Borg> when it does NOT work.. I rtfs +  test.. and it works
14:08:19  <Borg> this case is beyond my understand..
14:08:27  <Borg> depot penalty is high.. 2000
14:08:36  <Borg> path should not be chosed because even jammed track is cheaper
14:08:54  <Borg> and it works correct only when I have block signals before PBS on main track
14:09:21  <Borg> OpenTTD definitly lack of penalty signals..
14:09:33  <Eddi|zuHause> your huge station incurs a high base penalty, which might throw off the pathfinder
14:09:36  <Borg> I wonder why its not there yet
14:09:49  <Borg> Eddi|zuHause: even if.. its symmetrical for all tracks..
14:10:01  <Borg> and its not huge :) just 14 tiles.. max here
14:10:04  <Borg> I never build biggers
14:10:12  <Borg> but I like those 26 + 2 locos trains :D
14:10:30  <Borg> but not yet.. its too early.. waiting for SH'40'
14:10:36  <Borg> and bigger production
14:11:02  <Borg> okey, so no real explaination?
14:11:21  <Eddi|zuHause> nothing obvious
14:11:35  <Eddi|zuHause> next step would be to look at the actual calculated penalty
14:11:43  <Borg> yeah.. that would be neat
14:11:44  <Eddi|zuHause> not sure how to access that
14:11:46  <Borg> is there a way?
14:12:00  <Eddi|zuHause> there might be pathfinder debug values
14:12:34  <Borg> hmm
14:12:55  <Borg> yeah, I tried it once.. so its best to build test track w/ few trains only
14:13:13  <Borg> because its hard to correlate output w/ particual train in particual moment
14:13:35  <Borg> BUT... at least now I have workaround.. that at least I partialy understand
14:13:54  <Borg> once there is at least one block signal on balance path, look ahead kicks in..
14:14:33  <Borg> now I have PBS + block signal right before PBS.. everything works smoothly
14:15:03  <Borg> addint more block signals on main track doesnt break anything too.. make traffic more smooth.. leaving maintenance track for depot route only
14:21:40  <eirc> btw you could also decouple the station and the depot so you don't have to do all that weirdness
14:21:56  <eirc> have the line to the depot start and end earlier
14:22:31  <Borg> eirc: but its harder to manage..
14:22:44  <Borg> now I just clone train.. and let it go
14:22:44  <eirc> is it though?
14:23:04  <Borg> w/ that setup, I need to choose w/ depot to use? to balance them?
14:23:15  <eirc> you can have it some place before the station but not mixed with the entrances
14:23:36  <Borg> ahh.. yeah.. in middle..
14:24:17  <Eddi|zuHause> Borg: you can set a waypoint, and trigger a "go to nearest depot" instead of "go to specific depot"
14:24:42  <Borg> Eddi|zuHause: no no.. thats too risky
14:24:53  <Borg> I play using getto junctions
14:25:03  <Borg> I heavly reuse and rebuild tracks once game progresses..
14:25:18  <Borg> trains need to get exacly where they need..
14:25:21  <Eddi|zuHause> how is that relevant?
14:25:40  <Borg> well if trains will go to some depot no in his default path. I will get jams..
14:25:49  <Eddi|zuHause> you ensure you know where the trains are by sending them to the waypoint
14:26:11  <Borg> I didnt use waypoints from looong time.. YAPF does decent job at path finding
14:26:19  <Eddi|zuHause> the "go to nearest depot" will adhere to the maximum penalty, so it won't pick one across the map
14:26:19  <Borg> I just dont way trains go where they shouldnt go.. :)
14:26:32  <Borg> yeah.. but when u have centralized stations
14:26:41  <Borg> it could be triggered in baaad place
14:26:45  *** wodencafe has joined #openttd
14:26:56  <Eddi|zuHause> no, it will be triggered exactly at the waypoint
14:27:02  <Eddi|zuHause> that's why you have the waypoint
14:27:09  <Borg> ahh..
14:27:55  <Borg> hmm Ill think about improvemnt.. for now at least.. there is workaround that makes me happy
14:28:01  <Borg> lets see how things will look at 2000+ year..
14:28:17  <Eddi|zuHause> 1: goto waypoint, 2: if need servicing, go to nearest depot, 3: goto station [...]
14:28:24  <Borg> yep..
14:29:27  <Eddi|zuHause> i think you need to leave some small distance between the waypoint and the split, so the train doesn't reserve a path past the split before deciding to go to the depot
14:29:48  <Borg> yeah.. I always do so..
14:30:06  <Eddi|zuHause> because then it cannot undo the reservation
14:30:09  *** Thedarkb2-T60 has quit IRC
14:30:23  <Eddi|zuHause> so it won't find the depot, as it would have to make a complete roundtrip
14:30:26  <Eddi|zuHause> and that is too far
14:30:27  <Borg> yeah. undo reservation ;P thats why im playing 1.7.2 now :)
14:30:54  <Eddi|zuHause> i don't think reservation changed in 1.8.0
14:34:21  <Borg> there is bug.. when u stop train.. it doesnt cancel reservation
14:34:33  <Borg> in 1.7.2 its correct
14:34:46  <Eddi|zuHause> are you sure?
14:35:08  <Eddi|zuHause> i'd say the cancelling is the bug
14:35:13  <Borg> lets try it
14:35:25  <Borg> why? when u stop train.. manual.. full stop
14:35:31  <Borg> it should damn cancel everything
14:35:38  <Eddi|zuHause> no
14:35:55  <Borg> yes.
14:36:00  <Borg> it makes weird bugs
14:36:10  <Borg> in 1.8.0 I couldnt send train to depot manually
14:36:11  <Eddi|zuHause> it would cause a random other train to start up if you cancel the reservation
14:36:13  <Borg> to take it off from track
14:36:30  <Borg> because I stopped him.. ordered to go to depot.. and he said he could not find the path
14:36:33  <Eddi|zuHause> try reversing the train to cancel the reservation
14:36:53  <Borg> Eddi|zuHause: and it should go and start up.. its all fine
14:36:58  <Borg> we have signals to do protection
14:37:10  <Borg> I had that discuss here month ago..
14:37:16  <Borg> and ppl agreed its bug in 1.8.0
14:37:26  <Borg> I have have screenshot
14:37:40  <Borg>
14:38:01  <Borg> watch the stopped train and path reservation..
14:38:23  <Borg> I rolled back to 1.7.2 because it pissed me off a lot
14:40:21  <Borg> but it might be same in 1.7.2
14:40:24  <Borg> lets try it
14:41:30  <lethosor> Samu: not sure if you figured out rawget/set, but explains delegation. From what I understand, rawget looks in just the table itself and nowhere else.
14:42:27  <Borg> okey.. its same in 1.7.2 too
14:42:29  <Borg> DOH
14:42:30  <Borg> :>
14:42:32  <Borg> BUG immo
14:42:57  <Eddi|zuHause> it might be annoying behaviour, but it's definitely not a bug
14:43:06  <Borg> okey, so stopped train should not cancel reservation maybe.. but once u click go to depot.. it should recalc maybe
14:43:08  <Eddi|zuHause> because the feature works exactly as it was designed
14:43:28  <Eddi|zuHause> that's not a bug, that's a feature request
14:44:00  <Borg> so I can go back to 1.8.0 :)
14:44:12  <Borg> as I changed depot layouting.. seems im not affected that much :)
14:44:38  <Eddi|zuHause> anyway, place the signal as close to the depot split as possible, and the situation should rarely come up
14:44:46  <Borg> yep
14:44:49  <Eddi|zuHause> and if it comes up, hit the reverse button
14:49:49  *** Thedarkb2-T60 has joined #openttd
14:53:37  *** agentw4b__ has joined #openttd
15:02:04  *** gelignite has joined #openttd
15:03:51  <Samu> AITile::IsBuildableRectangle this function doesn't do what I think it does
15:04:58  <Samu> I need to look for another function
15:11:52  <Samu> I have a rectangle with the top tile coordinates 94, 94 and bottom tile coordinates 106, 106
15:13:11  <Samu> I want to expand it with the coverage area of 4 tiles of an airport of size 4, 3
15:16:03  <Samu> I want top coordinates to become 91, 92 and the bottom coordinates to stay the same 106, 106
15:16:40  *** Thedarkb2-T60 has quit IRC
15:16:52  <Samu> hmm how am I gonna do this
15:17:40  *** nielsm has joined #openttd
15:17:52  <nielsm> hi
15:17:58  <Samu> hi
15:19:43  <Samu> if i place the airport sized 4x3 at tile 91, 92, the tile 94, 94 will contain the bottom tile of the airport
15:19:51  <Samu> tier 91,92
15:19:56  <Samu> tile 94,94
15:20:44  <Samu> if i place the airport sized 4x3 at tile 106,106, that tile is the top tile of the airport
15:21:00  <Samu> now how to account the coverage area into this
15:24:03  <Samu> it's just a +4 +4
15:25:29  <Samu> tile 110,110 and tile 87, 88
15:28:25  *** Thedarkb2-T60 has joined #openttd
15:31:19  *** agentw4b__ has quit IRC
15:32:10  *** synchris has joined #openttd
15:38:23  *** acklen has joined #openttd
15:48:32  *** Progman has joined #openttd
15:52:41  *** roidal has joined #openttd
16:04:33  *** andythenorth_ has joined #openttd
16:05:43  <andythenorth_> o/
16:05:48  <nielsm> hi andythenorth_
16:13:44  *** andythenorth_ has quit IRC
16:14:00  *** wodencafe has quit IRC
16:15:52  *** wodencafe has joined #openttd
16:17:59  *** frosch123 has joined #openttd
16:19:05  *** KouDy has joined #openttd
16:26:30  *** KouDy has quit IRC
16:28:01  <TrueBrain> FLHerne: tnx for the highlight :)
16:28:35  <TrueBrain> seems to be a local issue, so unless I receive another ping, going to completely ignore it :D (but a ping is important; as 1 ping is noise, 2 pings is weird, 3 pings is an issue :P)
16:54:27  *** Flygon has quit IRC
16:57:02  *** andythenorth_ has joined #openttd
16:59:45  *** vlanik2[m] has quit IRC
16:59:47  *** cute[m] has quit IRC
16:59:47  *** UncleCJ has quit IRC
17:00:06  *** andythenorth_ has quit IRC
17:00:49  *** andythenorth_ has joined #openttd
17:01:01  <andythenorth_> phone irc is lame
17:01:10  <andythenorth_> won’t hold a connection
17:09:14  *** andythenorth_ has quit IRC
17:11:27  *** andythenorth_ has joined #openttd
17:12:50  *** Andythenorthqwe has joined #openttd
17:12:57  <Andythenorthqwe> Web irc?
17:14:19  <Andythenorthqwe> Quite unusable on phone :) Can’t see where I’m typing this :)
17:14:27  *** Andythenorthqwe has quit IRC
17:14:57  <LordAro> lol
17:19:12  <nielsm> reasons to bring a real computer if you're traveling and might want to go on irc
17:19:23  *** Mutter has joined #openttd
17:19:37  <Mutter> Different irc client :p
17:20:44  *** Mutter is now known as andythenorth
17:22:10  <andythenorth> So I am planning to rek FIRS more :)
17:22:21  <Eddi|zuHause> but, does it hold the connection? (i'm assuming the phone goes in some kind of suspend mode which drops connections)
17:22:43  <andythenorth> I think it’s iOS doing exactly that yes
17:23:12  <Eddi|zuHause> other solution would be a "bouncer"
17:23:20  <andythenorth> But trying a new client is some sort of empirical test
17:23:35  *** andythenorth_ has quit IRC
17:23:39  <Eddi|zuHause> means you'll still drop the connection, but the bouncer won't annoy us with your constant leaving and rejoining :p
17:23:55  <andythenorth> Yes there is that
17:24:12  <Eddi|zuHause> (it will also notify you of messages while you were absent)
17:24:18  <andythenorth> So I should drop Supplies from FIRS?
17:24:27  <Eddi|zuHause> from all of FIRS?
17:24:33  <andythenorth> In favour of Realistic input cargos?
17:24:43  <andythenorth> Up to 16 of them
17:25:04  <Eddi|zuHause> i'd say no, but you can diversify it in the more extreme economies
17:25:14  <andythenorth> Tractors -> farms
17:25:38  <nielsm> "this farm goes through fifty tractors a month, what the hell are they doing?!"
17:26:07  <andythenorth> Tractor Parts?
17:26:42  <Eddi|zuHause> engines? tyres? harvesting blades?
17:26:51  <andythenorth> Spanners
17:27:07  <Eddi|zuHause> electronic guidance systems?
17:27:08  <Wolf01> o/
17:27:15  <Eddi|zuHause> gps map data updates?
17:27:19  <Wolf01> "Mutter"
17:28:05  <nielsm> how about animal feed, fertilizer, pesticides
17:28:17  <andythenorth> John Deere DMCA protected software modules
17:28:37  <andythenorth> My rationale might be bogus
17:28:51  <Eddi|zuHause> "Mutter" is a very difficult to google name for an irc client
17:28:51  <andythenorth> I just need something to design on holiday
17:29:23  *** HerzogDeXtEr has joined #openttd
17:29:24  <nielsm> patented genetically modified seed
17:29:27  <andythenorth> OTOH FIRS got started because I was bored on holiday
17:29:38  <Eddi|zuHause> it's like the 6th entry for "mutter chat"
17:30:06  <Wolf01> andythenorth: did you receive the notification about wallyweb issues with catenary?
17:30:14  <Eddi|zuHause> all other google entries are completely unrelated
17:30:42  <Wolf01> I should make him come here to discuss that changes he needs
17:30:45  *** Thedarkb2-T60 has quit IRC
17:30:50  <Wolf01> *those
17:30:55  <andythenorth> Wolf no I missed that :)
17:31:18  <andythenorth> I have blanked NRT from my mind :)
17:31:29  <Eddi|zuHause> Wolf01: rip out the current ridgid catenary drawing code, replace it with something closer to the elrail code, which places individual poles
17:32:11  <Wolf01> Blank tanks and restart brainstorming on what needs to be polished and finished in NRT :P
17:32:13  <andythenorth> Didn’t catenary already get split up?
17:32:13  <Eddi|zuHause> Wolf01: i'd still say that is something completely separate from NRT
17:32:34  <Eddi|zuHause> anyway, gtg
17:32:39  <andythenorth> Tanks is not here on my holiday btw
17:32:39  <Wolf01> Nah, there is the drawing glitch
17:32:56  <Wolf01>
17:33:23  <Eddi|zuHause> problem is the overlapping bounding boxes
17:33:47  <Eddi|zuHause> the game cannot resolve sprite order correctly, because the catenary bounding box is so huge
17:34:18  <Eddi|zuHause> the problem can probably be hidden by reducing the bounding box size
17:34:41  <Eddi|zuHause> but it'll probably resurface at some point in other places, if it's not completely redesigned
17:34:55  <andythenorth> Will that work when people want to abuse catenary?
17:35:19  <Eddi|zuHause> like i said, it will resurface :p
17:35:21  <Wolf01> They are alreading abusing catenary
17:35:27  <Wolf01> *already
17:35:50  <Wolf01>
17:36:02  <andythenorth> Yes that’s what I mean :)
17:36:13  <andythenorth> Is it actually a problem?
17:36:17  <Eddi|zuHause> yes
17:36:24  <Eddi|zuHause> it's definitely a valid problem
17:36:36  <Eddi|zuHause> but i really gtg
17:36:40  <Wolf01> Bye
17:36:44  <Eddi|zuHause> like 10 minutes ago
17:37:57  <Wolf01> Also I think I'll get that ratt roads grf, it looks really valid and complete... but with only 15 roadtypes is limited... that mean I must vote yes for 64 roadtypes :P
17:39:14  *** glx has joined #openttd
17:39:14  *** ChanServ sets mode: +v glx
17:41:13  <andythenorth> So is NRT broken or not? :)
17:41:24  <andythenorth> There was some newgrf cost bug?
17:41:37  <Wolf01> That was a wrong sign in the code
17:42:05  <Wolf01> Because it seem I'm not able to copypaste right
17:42:08  <Wolf01> :P
17:44:36  <andythenorth> Bbl
17:44:39  *** andythenorth has quit IRC
17:57:30  *** gelignite has quit IRC
17:59:17  *** Mutter has joined #openttd
18:01:50  *** Mutter has quit IRC
18:05:38  *** tokai|noir has joined #openttd
18:05:38  *** ChanServ sets mode: +v tokai|noir
18:07:34  *** agentw4b has joined #openttd
18:09:27  *** Mutter has joined #openttd
18:09:53  <Mutter> I could leave FIRS alone
18:10:07  <Mutter> And do a ship set
18:10:41  <Mutter> Or NARS Horse
18:12:24  *** tokai has quit IRC
18:14:04  *** Mutter has quit IRC
18:18:01  <Samu> woah, finding tiles are quick
18:18:28  <Samu> finding a suitable tile to place an airport
18:18:31  <Samu> that is
18:18:46  <Samu> it does not consider that many tiles
18:18:50  <Samu> interesting
18:20:46  <frosch123> nicks are overrated
18:21:20  <Wolf01> I should change mine too, as I don't use this one anymore in other places
18:22:07  <frosch123> you can only do that when you bring another animal as replacement
18:22:38  <Wolf01> A human is enough?
18:23:28  <Wolf01> Too bad it is already used, and I don't want to append another "01" :P
18:40:44  *** roidal has quit IRC
18:42:09  *** Mutter has joined #openttd
18:47:59  *** Mutter has quit IRC
19:02:58  *** KouDy has joined #openttd
19:04:26  *** gelignite has joined #openttd
19:23:59  *** KouDy has quit IRC
19:30:25  *** eirc has quit IRC
19:30:48  *** eirc has joined #openttd
19:32:09  *** Borg has quit IRC
20:09:35  *** KouDy has joined #openttd
20:14:08  *** Thedarkb2-T60 has joined #openttd
20:29:07  *** andythenorth has joined #openttd
20:29:36  <andythenorth> maybe I rek Steeltown
20:29:50  <andythenorth> lots of fun reading to do for that
20:31:12  <andythenorth> is dolomite equivalent to limestone? o_O
20:33:49  *** andythenorth has quit IRC
20:55:59  *** andythenorth has joined #openttd
20:56:43  *** gelignite has quit IRC
20:58:23  *** andythenorth has quit IRC
20:59:29  <Wolf01> 'night
20:59:31  *** Wolf01 has quit IRC
21:08:55  *** frosch123 has quit IRC
21:11:03  <Eddi|zuHause> Human01?
21:14:25  *** synchris has quit IRC
21:17:05  *** Supercheese has joined #openttd
21:49:30  *** KouDy has quit IRC
21:52:59  *** Progman has quit IRC
22:18:52  *** Supercheese has quit IRC
22:22:59  *** sparch has joined #openttd
22:28:00  *** KouDy has joined #openttd
22:46:22  *** KouDy has quit IRC
22:55:59  *** Thedarkb2-T60 has quit IRC
23:05:35  *** KouDy has joined #openttd
23:12:42  *** agentw4b has quit IRC
23:16:15  *** HerzogDeXtEr has quit IRC
23:20:24  *** agentw4b has joined #openttd
23:23:39  *** Wacko1976 has quit IRC
23:36:00  *** keoz has quit IRC

Powered by YARRSTE version: svn-trunk