Log for #openttd on 21st August 2018:
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06:03:22  <Alberth> moin
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08:51:23  <Samu> is there a way to get the refit cost of a vehicle if I have the vehicle?
08:51:30  <Samu> if I don't have*
08:52:23  <Samu> more precisely, refit cost of an engine
08:52:35  <Samu> to cargo x
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08:59:12  <Wolf01> Moin
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09:31:05  <DorpsGek_II> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] vulvulune commented on issue #6887: Add layer showing boundaries for local authorities
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10:02:02  <Alberth> moin
10:03:05  <Alberth> Samu: I don't know, is there a call to obtain refit cost at all?
10:05:13  <Alberth> ie usually you can play the 'reverse information' game here. you need information X, so find all calls that provide X. These calls need other information Y. If you have Y, you're done, else, find all calls that provide Y. These calls need other information Z. If you have Z, ...
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10:33:18  <planetmaker> hm
10:33:26  <planetmaker> hi :)
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10:46:56  <Alberth> hi hi
10:47:31  <Alberth> openttdcoop is very persistent in keeping its users here :p
10:48:28  <peter1138> @seen yexo
10:48:28  <DorpsGek> peter1138: yexo was last seen in #openttd 5 years, 37 weeks, 5 days, 21 hours, 31 minutes, and 57 seconds ago: <Yexo> <NGC3982> The station glitches are CHIPS related. I adressed it to Andy the other day, and it seems like it's b0rked in some way. <- it's still in the issue tracker for CHIPS, but I haven't had time to look at it yet
10:56:49  <planetmaker> very persistent, yes :P
10:57:19  <planetmaker> yexo vanished rather abruptly.
10:57:52  <planetmaker> I wonder whether I should weed-out the irc users :)
10:58:00  <Wolf01> How could we tell if that's just his ghost?
10:58:50  <planetmaker> I can tell by checking connections to the bouncer :P got a ghost-buster there :D
10:59:11  <LordAro> Nov 29th 2012
10:59:14  <LordAro> a thursday
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11:16:10  <planetmaker> ye ol' times :)
11:19:49  <Alberth> :)
11:21:11  <LordAro> i've been through uni and a year of work since then
11:23:23  <Eddi|zuHause> feels like i haven't done anything since then
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11:42:52  <peter1138> Double trouble.
11:43:20  <Wolf01> Team rocket
11:43:29  <Wolf01> (he is the cat)
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14:08:28  <Samu> the more I look, the more I want to edit
14:08:32  <Samu> damn me
14:08:40  <Alberth> :)
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14:09:33  <Samu> i made the airport component to build from intercontinental to heliport
14:09:54  <Samu> it can become too slow in the later years
14:10:26  <Samu> when more airport types are available, because it checks if it can build one from all available
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14:10:42  <Alberth> nice
14:11:11  <Alberth> hopefully excluding the airports that are not compatible with the aircraft that you have?
14:11:58  <Samu> it can pair an intercontinental with a heliport
14:12:13  <Samu> ah, aircraft
14:12:25  <Samu> yes, it builds the correct aircraft
14:12:33  <Samu> in this example, it would get helicopters
14:12:38  <Alberth> spiffy
14:13:32  <Samu> there is a weird issue with HeliStation
14:13:41  <Samu> the top tile is an Hangar
14:14:08  <Samu> when i want to give orders to the aircraft to go to the station, it goes to hangar instead, i had to make a workaround
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14:14:58  <Samu> local order_1 = AIAirport.IsHangarTile(tile_1) ? AIMap.GetTileIndex(AIMap.GetTileX(tile_1), AIMap.GetTileY(tile_1) + 1) : tile_1;
14:14:59  <Alberth> hmm, pseudo-smart software eh
14:15:22  <Samu> this works
14:16:05  <Alberth> sort-of, (x, y+1) might not exist
14:16:27  <Alberth> not in the default airports, but in the general case
14:16:30  <Samu> with the current airports available, it exists
14:16:36  <Samu> yeah, i see what you mean
14:16:50  <nielsm> what if it's a 1x1 heliport
14:17:00  <Samu> doesn't have hangar
14:17:11  <nielsm> oh didn't read the full convo
14:17:29  <Alberth> or you can, but without roof, fly-in depot :p
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14:23:12  <Samu> I reworked the entire radius to search for a suitable tile to place an airport around a town
14:23:35  <Samu> i reused LuDiAI's estimateRectangle thing
14:23:56  <Samu> and then added my own coding to suit it for the various airport sizes
14:23:58  <Alberth> nice
14:24:17  <Samu> wrightai was a permanent 30 radius
14:24:42  <Samu> now it's kinda dependant on town size+airport size+ catchment
14:24:56  <Samu> im kinda proud of it, it works well
14:26:34  <Alberth> sounds like a major improvement indeed
14:30:05  <Samu> for the road vehicle part, I'm not too happy
14:30:09  <Samu> my changes didn't help much
14:30:43  <Samu> i even prevented station spreading, making it perform worse
14:30:46  <Samu> heh
14:31:23  <Samu> kinda expected, but, even with it allowed, it ain't better nor worse the way it was in the original
14:31:43  <Alberth> it happens, it is always complicated to foresee what the effect is precisely
14:33:01  <Alberth> it's mostly a sign you don't quite understand the real core of the problem yet
14:33:10  <planetmaker> hm, umpdated AIs? :)
14:33:16  <Alberth> more work needs to be done
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14:51:48  <Samu> is it "a hangar" or "an hangar"?
14:51:53  <Samu> my english
14:52:30  <Wolf01> N in front of vocals, H is not
14:56:00  <sparch_> wel
14:56:02  <sparch_> well
14:56:06  <sparch_> it may be not
14:56:37  <sparch_> some vocals have r sound like: a university
14:56:58  <sparch_> you right a university and not an university
14:57:10  <sparch_> *write
15:00:27  <andythenorth> direct reduced iron?
15:00:33  <andythenorth> tyres?
15:00:48  <andythenorth> coke oven offgas?
15:00:58  <andythenorth> tar?
15:01:14  * andythenorth rekking Steeltown
15:03:10  <Alberth> you already have a tyre plant :p
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15:04:56  <Alberth> copper looks weird in there
15:06:31  <Alberth> oh, already gone, nvm
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15:13:09  <andythenorth> yes
15:14:00  <andythenorth> I simplified vehicle chain inputs last year
15:14:07  <andythenorth> can’t remember why
15:14:33  <andythenorth> but ‘vehicle parts’ is limiting for cargo sprites
15:15:25  <Alberth> copper looks weird too
15:16:10  <Alberth> I wonder if you a copper chain would work, likely with an opt-out, so you don't need to build two full industry chains
15:16:44  <Alberth> *adding a copper chain
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15:23:20  <Eddi|zuHause> <sparch_> you right a university and not an university <-- that's because english writing is not phonetic. "university" is WRITTEN with a vowel at the start, but it actually does not start with a vowel SOUND
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15:26:11  <Eddi|zuHause> the reverse is also true, like french words which start with a written (but silent) h will shorten their article as if the word starts with a vowel, like "l'hôpital"
15:27:00  <andythenorth> so Tar cargo
15:27:17  <andythenorth> from Coke Oven
15:27:22  <andythenorth> but to where?
15:28:08  <Eddi|zuHause> dinosaur factory
15:28:19  <Eddi|zuHause> *fossil
15:30:27  <andythenorth> ooh
15:30:36  <andythenorth> tarpit
15:30:42  <andythenorth> supply dinosaurs
15:30:52  <andythenorth> produce fossils
15:31:10  <andythenorth> processing time 25m years
15:31:21  <andythenorth> daylength patch? o_O
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15:33:05  <Alberth> make an aircraft rather than a car :p
15:33:41  <andythenorth> aircraft parts are visually interesting cargo
15:33:58  <Alberth> and a PITA to draw :p
15:34:49  <Eddi|zuHause> need a beluga plane to carry aircraft parts
15:35:42  <andythenorth> oof
15:35:58  <andythenorth> how did Pinterest scam google images so well
15:36:06  <andythenorth> it’s a plague
15:36:48  <andythenorth> all the search results are pinterest, but behind a scamwall
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15:43:11  <sparch_> Eddi|zuHause, awesome thank you
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15:47:03  <peter1138> andythenorth, yeah, it's sad eh?
15:48:08  <Wolf01> I put -pinterest in searches
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15:48:31  <Eddi|zuHause> i don't even know what a pinterest is. i don't think i actually ever encountered it
15:49:06  <Alberth> Eddi: nah, aircraft is too big if you need a beluga
15:49:28  <LordAro> maybe it needs a belugas instead
15:49:44  <peter1138> :D
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15:51:49  <andythenorth> oof phone irc I give up :p
15:51:59  <andythenorth> it’s remarkably bad
15:53:20  <andythenorth> did anyone finish NRT yet? :p
15:57:42  <Wolf01> I should un-lazy me
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15:59:41  <andythenorth> rekking steeltown is really hard :(
16:00:06  <andythenorth> it’s very lacking in weak spots to poke at
16:00:39  <andythenorth> flawed things are easier to mess with :|
16:05:49  <Alberth> so, don't fix it :p
16:06:56  <andythenorth> i am concluding same thing
16:07:22  <andythenorth> steeltown is my favourite economy so far eh
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16:18:13  <Samu> if I limit the game to 50 airplanes, a crashed aircraft prevents me from buying another
16:18:20  <Samu> it would be the 51
16:18:37  <Samu> how do I deal with this
16:18:48  <Samu> i feel like not dealing with it at all
16:20:45  <Alberth> crashed airplane disappears by itself, doesn't it?
16:20:53  <Samu> yes
16:21:13  <Samu> but i am catching the event while the aircraft is in crashed state
16:21:23  <Samu> i can't create the replacement :(
16:21:29  <Alberth> ah
16:21:55  <Alberth> why not count non-crashed aircraft regularly, once a crash happened?
16:22:21  <acklen> or queue the replacement task until the plane is cleared
16:22:22  <Alberth> or maybe simply always do that
16:23:37  <Alberth> or store the crashed plane, like acklen says, and then regularly try to build a new aircraft until it works
16:23:51  <Alberth> or until after some X months
16:24:49  <Alberth> if you automatically adjust number of planes on a route, it will happen automagically without you doing anything special, I would think
16:25:38  <Samu> it kinda does that already, but it prioritizes stations with the largest amount of cargo waiting
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16:25:46  <Samu> might not be a direct replacement
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16:30:52  <Alberth> doesn't sound like a bad solution given the small amount of work you have to do :)
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16:39:18  <Wolf01> BBl
16:47:35  <Samu> dayum, starting a game in 2040, it takes toooo long to find a suitable location for an airport :(
16:47:58  <Samu> have to think
16:48:04  <Samu> how would I improve this
16:48:22  <Samu> maybe I could look at town noise
16:50:03  <Samu> too slow for my liking, it's been 10 years and still no airport
16:51:21  <Alberth> start with bigger towns
16:52:04  <Alberth> or towns that are quite flat
16:52:48  <Alberth> or find open space first perhaps?
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16:56:05  <Samu> i think the order I'm checking this matter
16:57:21  <Samu> i'm testing if i can build an intercontinental airport first, it tests in all towns from a to z if it can be placed. if it can't, then it next tests intercontinental, starting again from a to z
16:57:31  <Samu> i think the order has to be improved
16:57:56  <Samu> it keeps testing for every airport tile, repeating a to z
16:58:06  <Samu> erm, airport type*
16:59:01  <Samu> i think i want to get the town a first, then test the 9 different airport types in it
16:59:09  <Samu> town 'a'
17:00:07  <Samu> it went from testing 1 type of airport into 9
17:00:14  <Samu> that's what's increasing the time
17:01:25  <Samu> maybe i'll keep the best 10 towns
17:01:37  <Samu> then it doesn't really have to search them all
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17:01:49  <Samu> yeah, less towns to search
17:02:42  <Samu> but i still wanted to let it try the lesser towns
17:02:49  <Samu> hmm :(
17:03:06  <Borg> *snort*
17:07:37  <Alberth> try the smaller airport first, if that doesn't fit, no need to test anything after that
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17:10:09  <Alberth> seems to work doesn't it ?
17:10:29  <Samu> heh, that would be mass heliports
17:10:55  * happpy slaps Borg around a bit with a large fishbot
17:10:59  <Alberth> why?  just because the heliport fits doesn't mean you can't try other airports too
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17:11:38  <Samu> the current way I've coded this, if it starts with heliports, the chances of it being built is likely 100%
17:11:43  <happpy> Sorry rone butern  borg
17:12:37  <Samu> i start with the biggest noisy airport and go all the way down to the lowest noisy airport
17:13:04  <Samu> so maybe i should filter out towns that don't match the noise of the airport type i'm currently testing
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17:13:30  <Borg> happpy: huh?
17:13:41  <Alberth> you can do both, I think
17:13:55  <Samu> sec, let me get my code
17:14:57  <Samu> heh, it's kinda large
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17:15:34  <Samu> it starts with BuildAirportRoute
17:15:43  <Samu> that code is executed first
17:19:40  <Alberth> I'd suggest to first try to find the set of airports that can be build, and as a second step which one to actually build
17:20:23  <Alberth> the the former can be done faster if you take noise and airport size into account
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17:29:17  <Samu> that stationadjacent code is complicating things
17:29:33  <Samu> hmm
17:29:49  <Samu> maybe not
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17:47:01  <Samu> the adjacent code is forcing me to test twice
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17:47:19  <Samu> 			if (!AIAirport.BuildAirport(tile, airport_type, adjacentStationId) && 			    !AIAirport.BuildAirport(tile, airport_type, AIStation.STATION_NEW)) continue;
17:47:42  <Samu> i guess i can improve a bit
17:48:30  <Alberth> quite, you can add flags whether to test each case
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17:53:52  <Samu> 			if (adjacentStationId != AIStation.STATION_NEW && !AIAirport.BuildAirport(tile, airport_type, adjacentStationId) || 			    !AIAirport.BuildAirport(tile, airport_type, AIStation.STATION_NEW)) continue;
17:54:19  <Samu> this will do it
17:56:45  <Alberth> somewhat simpler
17:58:22  <Samu> wait a minute
17:58:38  <Samu> im trying in a game if i can distant join an airport to a bus station inside the town
17:59:39  <Samu> it seems noise concerns aren't the issue
17:59:42  <Samu> lol
17:59:51  <Samu> i can happily test it once
18:00:38  <Samu> if (!AIAirport.BuildAirport(tile, airport_type, AIStation.STATION_NEW)) continue;
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18:00:52  <Samu> i was worried i couldn't, lol
18:01:19  * andythenorth wonders if there’s a ranked list of cargo transported worldwide
18:01:30  <andythenorth> by volume/weight
18:02:01  <andythenorth> v4 Extreme is not convincing me, it lacks any concept
18:02:33  <Alberth> haha, it must have a justifaction :p
18:02:50  <andythenorth> it needs at least an idea
18:03:01  <Alberth> "I just threw industries on a big heap and this is what came out" :p
18:03:33  <andythenorth> Steeltown is ‘semi-realistic steel industry’ plus ‘many connected industries in small space on map’
18:04:01  <andythenorth> and also ‘cargo input gets horribly reduced in the secondaries’
18:04:15  <andythenorth> so it’s got a theme
18:05:18  <andythenorth> but the graph is such that all the random by products actually feed the main chain, indirectly
18:05:35  <andythenorth> extreme is blah blah
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18:07:36  <andythenorth> so far the concept is
18:08:03  <andythenorth> ‘somewhat Germany and Poland’
18:08:10  <Alberth> I think you're more concerned about it than the players :)
18:08:25  <andythenorth> plus ‘ag chain and industry chain are mostly separate’
18:08:38  <andythenorth> plus ‘most cargos have 2 consumers’
18:08:56  <andythenorth> well, players don’t have to make it :D
18:09:12  <andythenorth> they don’t need a concept :d
18:09:49  <andythenorth> maybe a shower gives the answer, sometimes works :p
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18:28:20  <andythenorth> eh last year I had a prototype ‘Brineland’ economy with salt as major cargo
18:28:36  <andythenorth> which has kind of resurfaced in extreme
18:28:46  <andythenorth> extreme needs a new name :p
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18:33:28  <andythenorth> Wirtschaftswunder?
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18:52:36  <Samu> hmm
18:52:58  <Samu> there should be a CheckFlatnessOfARectangle
18:53:06  <Samu> built in
19:01:26  <Alberth> Industrial kingdom
19:05:01  <Samu> IsBuildableRectangle is not enough
19:05:04  <Samu> plz fix
19:05:06  <Samu> lol
19:05:26  <Samu> doesn't do what I expected it to do
19:07:11  <Samu> looking at openttd code atm
19:07:49  <Samu>  /* static */ bool ScriptTile::IsBuildableRectangle(TileIndex tile, uint width, uint height)
19:07:55  <Samu> this is disappointing :(
19:08:19  <Samu> it doesn't treat the rectangle as an area of tiles
19:08:34  <Samu> doesn't check for flatness allowance
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19:28:03  <Alberth> you can code industries to build on non-flat areas, flatness requirement would lead to false negatives
19:28:52  <Alberth> also stations and airports can be build on non-flat areas, afaik
19:29:15  <Samu> there is a good function in openttd code itself
19:29:38  <Samu> but it was not ported to the script side
19:29:43  <Samu> can't access it
19:30:08  <Samu> the AI can't use it
19:30:16  <Samu> sec
19:30:36  <Samu> CheckFlatArea in station_cmd.cpp if i recall, brb
19:32:14  <Samu> ah
19:32:15  <Samu> CommandCost cost = CheckFlatLand(airport_area, flags);
19:32:32  <Samu> CheckFlatLand, and it does it's magic
19:32:51  <Samu> line 2221
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20:07:16  <andythenorth> “Dusseldorf”
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20:18:20  <planetmaker> * andythenorth [18:01:19] wonders if there’s a ranked list of cargo transported worldwide <-- there is... maybe not world-wide, but the statistics are available at least for each (or most) countries
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20:19:13  <planetmaker> like...
20:19:24  <planetmaker> buh :(
20:19:59  <Eddi|zuHause> yeah, trying to reply to andy is horrible :p
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