Log for #openttd on 7th September 2018:
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00:01:48  <Samu_> for (local tile = 0; tile <= AIMap.GetMapSize(); tile++) {
00:01:52  <Samu_> how bad would this be?
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00:12:54  <Samu_> real bad
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01:07:46  <Samu_> takes 60 days to iterate the whole map on very fast/250k ops
01:08:26  <Samu_> 60 days to build an airport route in a 4k map isn't that bad, but requiring very fast/250k ops is bad :(
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01:09:54  <Samu_> testing with defaults
01:10:18  <Samu_> if i get more than 200 days, then it sucks
01:10:35  <Samu_> need another method
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08:23:28  <andythenorth> moin
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10:01:43  <Samu> hi
10:02:29  <Samu>
10:02:37  <Samu> found 2 ways to do the thing
10:02:49  <Samu> method 2 is highly innacurate :(
10:02:54  <Samu> but much faster
10:04:13  <Samu> method 1 is ultra mega super slow in 4k maps
10:04:31  <Samu> but 100% accurate
10:04:34  <Samu> what can I do?
10:07:08  <peter1138> How inaccurate?
10:07:24  <Samu> there could be some potential towns missing
10:08:03  <peter1138> What does closestTowns contain?
10:08:47  <Samu> closestsTowns starts equal to town_list, so they're basically all available towns
10:09:29  <peter1138> I'd've thought you would be building a list UP instead of copying a whole list and removing each item.
10:10:01  <Samu> okay, I lie, they're not really all avaiable towns
10:10:07  <Samu> sec, phone
10:11:42  <Samu> back
10:12:22  <Samu> they're all the towns that have not been used yet, without an airport yet
10:12:51  <Samu> they're also towns that haven't been tried recently in the last batch of 10 failed searchs
10:13:53  <peter1138> So what makes it inaccurate?
10:14:05  <Samu> it's the center tile of the town
10:14:13  <Samu> it only looks for that tile
10:14:23  <Samu> doesn't search its surroundings
10:15:24  <Samu> there could be a potential tile a bit away from  the center tile  that could accept an airport
10:16:43  <Samu> it can exclude some towns based on the center tile alone
10:17:23  <Samu> have you seen yesterday screenshot?
10:17:54  <Samu> easier to explain if I look at it
10:18:22  <Samu> ah, here
10:18:29  <Samu> all that white ring
10:18:39  <Samu> is how method 1 searchs
10:18:59  <Samu> method 2 only searches the center tile of a town
10:20:02  <Samu> center tile of towns that are in the periphery of the ring wouldn't be chosen
10:20:21  <peter1138> So what?
10:21:12  <Samu> well, imagine 4k maps, the huge size of the ring and you can imagine the amount of towns that could it be missing
10:21:50  <Samu> that screenshot is of a 512*512 map
10:22:39  <Samu> an example is tonnley, if you can spot it
10:22:44  <Samu> it's just a few tiles away from the ring
10:23:10  <Samu> an airport could be potentially placed in part of the town
10:23:18  <Samu> the part located north, inside the ring
10:23:25  <Samu> and yet, method 2 didn't include it
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10:26:36  <Samu> or froning*something, or penbourne, or past the ring, like frunley at the top right
10:28:16  <peter1138> Why would the first method include it?
10:28:41  <Samu> because it's 100% accurate
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10:29:38  <Samu> or am i seeing things wrong?
10:29:43  <peter1138> How?
10:30:02  <Samu> no, im correct
10:30:42  <peter1138> First you build a circle of possible tiles. Then you loop through each town and test if your tile list contains the location of a town.
10:30:47  <peter1138> Method 1 ^
10:31:22  <peter1138> Method 2: you loop through each town and determine if the distance is permitted.
10:31:27  <Samu> so im doing it wrong
10:32:12  <Samu> looks like im doing it wrong for method 1, that's not what I intended :|
10:32:24  <peter1138> that's what you wrote..
10:32:32  <peter1138> What did you... think... you'd written?
10:32:37  <user_666> I used the content commands to download a scenario to my server, how am I supposed to proceed now? it downloaded a .tar that i can see via ftp but not via rcon ls in the content_downloaded directory
10:33:42  <Samu> damn, let me see what I can do
10:35:46  <peter1138> No seriously,  what did you think you'd written?
10:36:26  <Samu> that the closest town to that tile was belonging to the town_list
10:37:14  <Samu> GetClosestTown(tile
10:37:26  <Samu> sec, let me edit
10:37:33  <peter1138> Samu, don't use that.
10:38:06  <user_666> anyone? even worse is when i manually put .scn files on the server, i don't see them via rcon ls, so i cant start a scenario
10:40:47  <peter1138> Samu, if you do, restrict it to only ROAD or TOWN tiles. Otherwise, *each call* of that method will loop every single town again.
10:41:24  <Samu>  //		    if (!tileList.HasItem(AITown.GetLocation(AITile.GestClosestTown(tile)))) {
10:41:28  <Samu> hmm
10:43:15  <Samu> Gest* lol
10:43:52  <Samu> looks like I need an extra list?
10:43:55  <Samu> oh man
10:46:40  <Samu> gonna build up the list of towns instead of tearing it down, it seems
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10:53:56  <Samu>
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10:54:21  <Samu> if i can't use GetClosestTown, then .... hmm m:(
10:56:00  <Samu> oh
10:56:25  <Samu> better
10:56:51  <Samu> actually no, i fail
10:56:52  <Samu> grr
10:57:48  <Samu> the index tile does not exist, hahaha i'm so terrible
11:02:48  <Samu>
11:02:53  <Samu> there, now it is running
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11:06:32  <Samu> nevermind, the index town does not exist, why am I so terrible :(
11:07:51  <Samu> closestTownscopy.AddItem(closest_town, tile);
11:08:01  <Samu> fixed* only needed 5 tries
11:10:19  <Samu> testing how terribly slow it is right now
11:10:21  <Samu> brb
11:10:33  <Samu> slower than yesterday
11:13:06  <Samu>
11:13:14  <Samu> on a 4k map with 250k ops/very fast
11:13:59  <Samu> but with the defaults of 10k ops/medium, it won't do anything for years
11:18:03  <Samu> okay, so i can't iterate the whole map, and then i can't use GetClosestTown
11:18:17  <Samu> method 1 = rip
11:18:25  <Samu> how to improve method 2 ?
11:21:50  <Samu> this screenshot shows how many towns are found when using both methods
11:21:51  <Samu>
11:22:38  <Samu> finally exposed the innacuracy problem of method 2
11:23:40  <Samu> @calc 180 / 227
11:23:40  <DorpsGek> Samu: 0.79295154185
11:23:52  <Samu> only accounts for 79% of towns
11:26:12  <Samu> btw there is a huge stall when GetClosestTown is executed
11:26:23  <Samu> can barely move the mouse
11:26:51  <peter1138> 11:40 <@peter1138> Samu, if you do, restrict it to only ROAD or TOWN tiles. Otherwise, *each call* of that method will loop every single town again.
11:27:17  <peter1138> I wasn't joking.
11:27:41  <Samu> well, but... method 1 is to be eliminated
11:28:04  <Samu> unless you know of a better way to iterate the full map
11:29:47  <peter1138> Avoid it.
11:30:07  <peter1138> You don't need to iterate the full map anyway.
11:40:56  <Samu> well, i'm going to use method 2 for the time being
11:41:10  <Samu> until I figure out a way to improve it
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11:52:18  <Samu> At least I learned a new thing
11:52:23  <Samu> GetClosestTown is evil
11:52:42  <Samu> i've used it in a few places
11:54:10  <peter1138> Not evil, just brute force. It's okay on a town tile, that's about it.
11:58:37  <Samu> tileList.Valuate(AITile.GetClosestTown);
11:58:38  <Samu> keks
11:58:41  <Samu> oh god
11:59:06  <Samu> at least now I know the source of the slowdowns
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12:01:31  <Samu> hmm this valuator
12:01:42  <Samu> if i don't use it, i'm going to start placing airports in the wrong towns
12:02:08  <Samu> and those asserts will trigger
12:02:10  <Samu> bah
12:02:13  <Samu> what can I do
12:04:46  <Samu> if there are 2 towns near each other
12:05:51  <Samu> and I am looking to place it in town x, it could sometimes find town y to be a better spot for the airport, the valuator is used to ensure I always put the airport it town x
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14:11:10  <Samu> we got a problem :(
14:11:12  <Samu> I
14:11:55  <Samu> due to the order of things being shited around, i can't keep track of tried towns as easily :(
14:12:01  <Samu> shifted*
14:12:57  <Samu> how do I solve this
14:15:50  <Samu> I used to have: for town A to Z { for airporttype 1 to 9 } }
14:16:05  <Samu> now I got for airporttype 1 to 9 { for town A to Z } }
14:16:44  <Samu> can't just add a town to  triedtown list as I used to
14:16:47  <Samu> halp
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14:20:22  <Samu> must think
14:25:24  <Samu> pff, how am I gonna guess ahead of time :(
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14:34:55  <Samu> got to revert
14:35:17  <Samu> for town A to Z { for airportype 1 to 9 } } is still the better order
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14:53:00  <Alberth> o/
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15:53:30  <Samu> according to NoNoCAB, there really are 12544 towns in a 4k map
15:53:49  <Samu> and 20498 industries
15:55:40  <Alberth> good luck connecting them all
15:57:01  <Samu> it is averaging 9 days for each time it succeeds building an airport route in a 4k map now
15:57:11  <Samu> for the small airport
15:57:18  <Samu> haven't tested larger airports yet
15:59:40  <Samu> dont think it's possible
15:59:44  <Samu> only 5k vehicles
16:00:10  <Samu> 1 vehicle per 2 towns that's 10k towns
16:00:37  <Samu> unless i tell it to go to 3 different towns
16:00:58  <Alberth> yeah, you need to make longer lines so trains serve more cities
16:02:01  <Samu> NoNoCAB has the strongest start no matter what I do :p
16:03:01  <Alberth> limit connection to a small part of the map?
16:04:41  <Samu> i'm also doing a different test, each ai starts with 100 million £
16:05:14  <Samu> my current implementation starts the strongest, hmm so the search is fast
16:05:18  <Alberth> :o   I wish I had such an amount money :)
16:05:43  <Samu> the management of the first routes is the issue
16:05:47  <Alberth> quickly change it to euros before the brexit :)
16:05:49  <Samu> they're probably not the best
16:06:15  <Samu> well, I dont use full loads
16:06:18  <Samu> i dont use services
16:06:27  <Samu> yeah, that kind of things actually help
16:07:20  <Samu> it's just go to station a or b, load/unload if available
16:07:32  <Samu> and i let it do the servicing on its own
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16:44:54  <andythenorth> oops
16:44:57  <andythenorth> I read forums :|
16:50:17  <andythenorth> acs121 continues to spread misinformation :P
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16:56:09  <Alberth> yep
16:56:40  <Alberth> hi hi btw
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16:57:06  <peter1138> Oh?
16:57:08  <Samu> Wormnest: your NoNoCAB is really strong with aircraft early game
16:57:11  <peter1138> Cos I don't read it.
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16:59:00  <andythenorth> it doesn't matter, forums are over :)
16:59:08  <Wormnest> That´s nice Samu :)
16:59:11  <andythenorth> just need somewhere else to announce newgrf updates now :P
16:59:21  <andythenorth> do I have to crack and get a reddit account?
17:00:22  <Samu> well at least my ai has one advantage over the others I'm testing
17:00:29  <Samu> it plans the fastest
17:00:57  <Samu> but not the most profitable way
17:01:11  <Samu> that goes to NoNoCAB he's just the king, leaves everyone else in the dust
17:02:35  <Samu> Admiral AI is half of NoNOCAB
17:02:53  <Samu> and my AI is 3rd at 1/3 of Admiral AI
17:03:10  <Samu> that makes it 1/6 or NoNoCAB?
17:03:58  <Samu> i thought AIAI was strong
17:04:17  <Samu> at least in my previous tests it came out first
17:04:24  <Samu> must be strongest later on
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17:04:30  <Samu> it's weak at the start
17:09:49  * andythenorth tests
17:10:41  <andythenorth> oof can't compile
17:14:33  <andythenorth> also
17:14:39  <andythenorth> who fixed FFWD on mac os?
17:14:41  <andythenorth> :P
17:18:11  <andythenorth> eh the frame rate window exists now :D
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17:21:27  <andythenorth> peter1138: fancy having an opinion on this?
17:21:43  <andythenorth> I think it's better than trunk 'improved' trees which spams them everywhere
17:21:50  <andythenorth> but I'm not convinced it's better enough
17:22:08  <andythenorth> and I think, on ffwd, that trees still disappear over time
17:25:23  <DorpsGek_II> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] andythenorth commented on pull request #6848: Feature : New Trees Placement Algorithm "Forest".
17:32:58  <lethosor> andythenorth: fast forward? There was a PR to decouple simulation from graphics frame rate, but not platform specific
17:33:52  <andythenorth> it's probably some unfathomable combination of new mac + mac OS changes + deps changes + openttd changes
17:34:35  <lethosor> What, fast forward specifically or some compiler issues?
17:35:56  <andythenorth> fast forward being fast again
17:36:19  <andythenorth> 40 years in about 5 mins
17:36:37  <andythenorth> oh it's slowed down now, 3 AIs started
17:36:47  <lethosor> That's almost certainly due to the openttd changes I mentioned
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17:41:33  <Wolf01> o/
17:41:51  <Alberth> o/
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17:44:02  <lethosor> Oops, wasn't merged. Maybe I was thinking of something else
17:45:59  <andythenorth> I might just be imagining it
17:46:03  <andythenorth> I don't have timing data :)
17:46:19  <DorpsGek_II> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] Skymanboy opened pull request #6893: Update a few translation misstakes in german.txt
17:47:21  <DorpsGek_II> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] Skymanboy closed pull request #6893: Update a few translation misstakes in german.txt
17:59:06  <Samu> I wish 4k maps could fast forward faster
17:59:10  <andythenorth> they don't
17:59:16  <andythenorth> because they're too big
17:59:24  <andythenorth> they should just be removed
17:59:34  <Samu> uhm... ok
17:59:43  <Samu> why was it released
18:00:04  <andythenorth> because reasons
18:01:03  <Samu> i suspect this game would run well on an intel processor
18:01:16  <Samu> faster forwards in them
18:03:36  <Samu> Wormnest: what exactly the think faster option
18:03:40  <Samu> in wormAI
18:04:06  <Samu> it will build more stuff in less time?
18:04:20  <Samu> speaking in airport routes
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18:08:11  <Samu> ah, it should have been fast
18:13:04  <LordAro> mistakes in the german? i suspect not :p
18:13:26  <andythenorth> poor deliveroo rider
18:13:33  <andythenorth> curry house is bottom of a hill
18:13:35  <andythenorth> I am top
18:13:54  <peter1138> Christmas shit in the supermarkets already :(
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18:15:12  <andythenorth> 36m elevation difference
18:15:55  <andythenorth> in 0.7 miles
18:16:29  <andythenorth> oh google maps has a height thing now too
18:17:08  <andythenorth> peter1138: is the John Lewis ad on yet? :P
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18:36:07  <LordAro> @calc 0.0223 / 0.7
18:36:07  <DorpsGek> LordAro: 0.0318571428571
18:36:23  <LordAro> 3% hill, i think they'll cope :p
18:37:15  <andythenorth> I cycle it home from work
18:37:17  <andythenorth> it sucks :P
18:37:40  <LordAro> :p
18:38:30  <peter1138> Get fit!
18:43:46  <andythenorth> electric bike
18:43:51  <andythenorth> is the next step
18:43:57  <andythenorth> downtube or hub motor? o_O
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19:11:07  <Samu> yay
19:11:18  <Samu> it finally blooms!
19:11:35  <Samu> NoNoCAB is brown
19:12:27  <Samu> AdmiralAI is green
19:13:35  <Samu> NoNoCAB just manages to do a much better start to enjoy a wealthy advantage in the early years
19:15:08  <Samu> large airports are coming soon
19:15:16  <Samu> things might shift once again
19:16:15  <Samu> Wormnest: NoNoCAB only keeps track of 2000 towns, right?
19:17:22  <Samu> so... uh that seems LuDiAI AfterFix has greater chances to take the lead
19:17:31  <Samu> it handles all 12k
19:17:58  <Samu> we'll see
19:18:22  <Samu> there's also WormAI in the test, but it's currently buried down
19:19:06  <Samu> large airports are coming...
19:21:00  <Samu> NoCAB, the original one, can't start in a 4k map, it makes openttd poof
19:21:09  <Samu> that's why I am not testing it
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19:35:22  <Samu> I hope I don't have to deal with the issue of lost helicopters
19:35:46  <Samu> they're not exactly lost, but they're not being sold when they become old
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19:47:47  <peter1138> andythenorth, legs.
19:48:02  <LordAro> ^
19:48:21  * LordAro judges furiously
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20:28:39  <Wolf01> 'night
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