Log for #openttd on 29th September 2018:
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00:13:13  <Samu> uploaded v5 :)
00:15:34  <Samu> if I get a crash now, I'll be mad
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06:43:22  <andythenorth> moin
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07:51:16  <andythenorth> so when did TE get nerfed?
07:51:55  <andythenorth> @calc 221/225
07:51:56  <DorpsGek> andythenorth: 0.982222222222
07:52:39  <andythenorth> the TE shown in buy menu is not the same as TE when engine is built
07:52:50  <Eddi|zuHause> nobody changed TE in ages
07:53:14  <Eddi|zuHause> SI units?
07:54:27  <andythenorth>
07:54:27  <Eddi|zuHause> when designing CETS i had this odd feeling that it applied factor of 10 and 9.81 in random places that didn't quite feel consistent
07:54:37  <andythenorth> it's reproducible with default trains
07:54:44  <andythenorth> 1.8.0-RC1 doesn't do it
07:54:49  <andythenorth> self-compiled master does
07:55:47  <andythenorth> and 9.81 looks about right for the factor
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08:01:22  <Eddi|zuHause> so, what happens if you change the display units?
08:02:16  <Eddi|zuHause> also, who invented the word "nerfed"?
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08:39:58  <Wolf01> So, if you want me to fix things guide me on how to set up this thing :P
08:42:25  <Wolf01> 1) How to get a working NRT repo updated to the latest NRT changes (I might get peter's patch to work, I don't know why it doesn't work)
08:42:25  <Wolf01> 2) The exact commands to sync it with trunk (I'm REALLY lost here)
08:43:01  <nielsm> start by cloning the main ottd repository
08:43:19  <nielsm> then add the forked repos containing the PR branch as a remote
08:43:37  <Wolf01> I already have that, the problem is: I'll need sub-branches for NRT, is that possible?
08:43:38  <nielsm> fetch that remote, and checkout the PR branch from it
08:44:05  <nielsm> and with that done, you can rebase the NRT changes onto the current master head
08:44:25  <nielsm> is what I would do
08:47:56  <nielsm> iirc the sequence would be like this:
08:48:17  <LordAro> subbranches are just branches taken from another branch
08:48:28  <LordAro> they're not really a thing :)
08:48:36  <Wolf01> So he had nrt-block too
08:48:41  <LordAro> (given subbranches are just branches)
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08:49:14  <andythenorth> bbl
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09:05:35  <Wolf01> wolfolo@Wolf01:~/Progetti/OpenTTD/andythenorth-nrt-block$ git checkout andy/nrt-block
09:05:35  <Wolf01> error: pathspec 'andy/nrt-block' did not match any file(s) known to git.
09:05:38  <Wolf01> :S
09:06:10  <Wolf01> I added the remote succesfully
09:07:38  <Wolf01> wolfolo@Wolf01:~/Progetti/OpenTTD/andythenorth-nrt-block$ git remote -v
09:07:39  <Wolf01> andy (fetch)
09:07:39  <Wolf01> andy (push)
09:07:39  <Wolf01> origin (fetch)
09:07:39  <Wolf01> origin (push)
09:07:51  <michi_cc> git fetch andy
09:08:43  <Wolf01> Good
09:09:16  <Wolf01> Let's see if compiles
09:19:13  <Wolf01> Mmmh, still same error as peter's one, it doesn't load any newgrf
09:19:24  <Wolf01> Not even the bananas ones
09:19:46  <Wolf01> "matching file not found"
09:21:09  <Wolf01> I put them in the bin folder like all the other repos, and the cfg too
09:27:00  <Wolf01> IIRC this was the reason I stopped trying
09:36:28  <Eddi|zuHause> did you cd into the bin folder?
09:37:08  <Wolf01> I'm running it from VS
09:37:12  <Wolf01> Like... always
09:38:13  <Eddi|zuHause> and master works that way?
09:38:23  <Wolf01> Didn't try
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09:54:44  <Wolf01> Mmmh, trunk seems fine
09:55:30  <Eddi|zuHause> i think the error message is spurious, and results from a previous error that was hidden/ignored
09:56:20  <Wolf01> Something fishy changed
09:56:29  <andythenorth> Eddi|zuHause: changing the TE units, the discrepancy is still present
09:57:52  <Eddi|zuHause> andythenorth: so either one place forgot to apply the 9.81 factor or the other place applied it twice
09:58:08  <andythenorth> I can go through commits and try to isolate it
09:58:20  <Eddi|zuHause> that might help
09:58:21  <andythenorth> is there *any* chance it's compile specific?
09:58:28  <Eddi|zuHause> unlikely
09:58:30  <andythenorth> can anyone else repro it?
10:00:32  <Eddi|zuHause> seems to also appear here
10:00:40  <Eddi|zuHause> with whatever i compiled last
10:01:38  <andythenorth> well it's not in 1.8.0-RC1
10:02:31  <Eddi|zuHause> great, then you have a start for a bisection
10:02:51  <andythenorth> I am limited because I can only compile with LordAro's branch
10:03:03  <andythenorth> I'd have to backport patches to trunk to compile it
10:03:15  <andythenorth> currently reading commits looking for anything obvious
10:03:28  <Eddi|zuHause> but that's only a makefile patch?
10:03:38  <Eddi|zuHause> can just apply that to whatever you check out
10:03:49  <andythenorth> yes, it's just a configure patch
10:04:07  <andythenorth> I would probably test this one first :P
10:04:08  <andythenorth>
10:05:01  <Eddi|zuHause> right, that points to version 1 of the error (forgot change in other place)
10:07:19  <Wolf01> BTW, I think is there something fishy on my OTTD repo, even VS can't find includes but it loads them
10:07:34  <Wolf01> Maybe it's because I'm using WSL
10:08:11  <Eddi|zuHause> can't help you with that
10:08:27  <Eddi|zuHause> case sensitive? symlink?
10:08:52  <Wolf01> Probably
10:09:32  <andythenorth> so TE is correct in both cases for rev preceeding cad47bbefe5007a4d6c4e02b2cbc6f69484475f7
10:09:37  <andythenorth>
10:09:47  <Eddi|zuHause> no
10:09:56  <Eddi|zuHause> it's consistent, but not correct :p
10:10:00  <andythenorth> oh yes
10:10:12  <andythenorth> TE is consistently wrong in both places for that rev :P
10:10:29  <Eddi|zuHause> just look for the buy menu calculation, and apply the 10->9.8 factor change there too
10:11:02  <Eddi|zuHause> possibly refactor it so both use the same global constant
10:13:55  <andythenorth> I was hoping I could file a ticket and peter1138 would fix it :P
10:17:07  <andythenorth>
10:17:14  <Wolf01> I'll try cloning direclty from andy's with VS
10:20:28  <Eddi|zuHause> andythenorth: "uint Engine::GetDisplayMaxTractiveEffort() const" in src/engine.cpp
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10:21:44  * andythenorth testing
10:21:52  <Eddi|zuHause> andythenorth: the "10*..." must be changed into "9800* ... /1000" or something like that
10:22:10  <andythenorth> 9.8 will have integer maths problems?
10:22:14  <Eddi|zuHause> yes
10:22:48  <Eddi|zuHause> ... and then the 9800 moved to some header file as a constant
10:23:02  <andythenorth> above my pay grade :P
10:23:19  <andythenorth> but function is the cause and fix of the issue
10:27:25  <andythenorth> Eddi|zuHause: you could get a checkout and write a patch? o_O
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10:31:47  <Eddi|zuHause> ... below my paygrade :p
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10:33:29  <Wolf01> Ok, cloning with VS worked
10:33:36  <Wolf01> So there's something fishy with WSL
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10:46:22  <Wolf01> So, I cloned andy's repo and compiled nrt-block and IT WORKS. Now, I need to get those nasty conflicts fixed, how should I proceed?
10:48:13  <nielsm> one way to make conflict resolution easier is to rebase onto the new head in smaller steps
10:48:32  <nielsm> e.g. rebase 10 revisions of master forward at a time
10:48:45  <nielsm> (or fewer in case there are lots of big changes getting merged)
10:49:17  <nielsm> you'd need to rebase onto revision hashes instead of named branches/tags in that case
10:50:02  <nielsm> or well, you could actually go ahead and mark your intended rebase targets with branch or tag names
10:50:28  <nielsm> to make them easier to identify, stick to a plan, and keep track of progress
10:50:52  <Wolf01> Wow...
10:52:13  <Eddi|zuHause> <-- for #6920
10:52:32  <Wolf01> Mmmh, Cannot rebase: you have unstaged changes.. I don't
10:52:40  <nielsm> ask "git status"
10:52:55  <Wolf01> Oh fuck, it tracks changing of branch as changes
10:53:19  <nielsm> hm it shouldn't
10:54:04  <Wolf01> Nothing that a hard reset can't resolve
10:56:03  <Wolf01> Meh, I did the opposite, I'm removing NRT from trunk
11:22:12  <Eddi|zuHause> ok, i bit the dust and created a stupid github account
11:22:29  <Wolf01> :D
11:22:32  <Eddi|zuHause> anyone want to walk me through what to do to make a pull request?
11:22:50  <nielsm> fork openttd to your own account
11:23:02  <nielsm> pull from your own fork into your local repos
11:23:03  <Wolf01> Ahahaha, I don't know either... or at least I do because I used them for merges
11:23:12  <nielsm> push your own branch to your own forked repos
11:23:30  <nielsm> go to github website on your own repos or main repos, it'll show a suggestion to create at PR from your branch
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11:28:36  <Eddi|zuHause> that is so very incomplete description...
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11:30:54  <nielsm> step 1: fork
11:31:07  <Eddi|zuHause> i did that
11:31:25  <nielsm> clone your own:
11:31:39  <nielsm> or add it as a remote on an existing clone
11:31:52  <Eddi|zuHause> that last one i need
11:32:17  <Wolf01> Mmmh, rebase for me is mythical stuff, couldn't I do it with merge instead? :D
11:32:18  <nielsm> git remote add eddi
11:32:31  <nielsm> then push your branch to your own remote:
11:32:54  <nielsm> git push -u eddi mybranch
11:33:27  <nielsm> the -u sets your own remote as the default upstream push target
11:33:39  <nielsm> so you afterwards just can 'git push' with no further parameters
11:37:30  <Eddi|zuHause> so, i pushed... how do i proceed now?
11:37:37  <nielsm> gi back to the website
11:37:42  <nielsm> on your own fork
11:37:55  <nielsm> it should show a bar suggesting you make a PR
11:38:40  <Eddi|zuHause> not seeing anything
11:40:11  <LordAro> osht, eddi on gh
11:40:14  <Eddi|zuHause> i see it got my new branch
11:40:20  <Eddi|zuHause> but not any changes...?
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11:41:00  <Eddi|zuHause> uh even worse, it made the commit to master, not the branch i created
11:41:17  <Eddi|zuHause> and of course it didn't push that
11:41:22  <Eddi|zuHause> when i pushed the branch
11:43:15  <Wolf01> andythenorth: I only get 1 conflict on npf.cpp is that right?
11:43:45  <andythenorth> Wolf01: against upstream master?
11:43:49  <Wolf01> Yes
11:43:52  <andythenorth> I will get a checkout and try
11:43:57  <andythenorth> hmm what does GH say :P
11:44:01  * andythenorth looks
11:45:19  <Eddi|zuHause> so i hope that worked
11:46:47  <Wolf01> Also only a single if condition was slightly changed and caused a conflict
11:46:49  <Eddi|zuHause> ugh, it barfs on the commit message... so how do i rewrite that?
11:47:09  <andythenorth> Wolf01: these are mine
11:47:21  <andythenorth> Eddi|zuHause: sometimes git commit --amend is safe
11:47:29  <andythenorth> but probably you have to rebase -i :|
11:47:32  <andythenorth> then force push
11:47:56  <andythenorth> I can't advise, I have to look up how to do it every time
11:49:30  <Eddi|zuHause> also, why is my avatar a red creeper?
11:49:49  <andythenorth> Wolf01: to answer the original q, I only get one conflict within npf.cpp
11:49:56  <andythenorth> but there are the others of course :)
11:56:00  <Eddi|zuHause> so... regression test must update
11:56:16  <Wolf01> Mmmh, I think my remote didn't fetch the correct stuff, I got stuff from 3 months ago
11:56:57  <Wolf01> Because I had a rogue ( in opf_ship.cpp and that was part of a commit 3 months ago
11:57:36  <andythenorth> is it setup as it says in CONTRIBUTING.MD?
11:57:39  <andythenorth> o_O
11:59:20  <Wolf01> No, it's the automatic rebase which breaks stuff
11:59:24  <Wolf01> Fuck
11:59:55  <Wolf01> It seem like it isn't able to replay all the commits
12:00:07  <andythenorth> :|
12:00:38  <Wolf01> I don't have other options
12:00:56  <Wolf01> I should do it from CLI, but it seem to break the repo
12:01:49  <Wolf01> Merge instead works and shows the right conflicts, but you said merge is evil
12:05:05  <Eddi|zuHause> seems i also broke TE calculation for RV
12:05:08  <Eddi|zuHause> not sure why
12:06:15  <andythenorth> Wolf01: I don't know if merge is evil
12:06:20  <Eddi|zuHause> ah, found it
12:06:26  <andythenorth> I just follow instructions in CONTRIBUTING.MD
12:06:34  <andythenorth> then I don't get sadface from other people
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12:12:00  <Wolf01> I think it's the case to move roadtypes to m8...
12:13:50  <Eddi|zuHause> was it a bad idea to force update the pr while it was still building?
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12:15:03  <andythenorth> Eddi|zuHause: 'probably fine'
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12:27:33  <Eddi|zuHause> "ModuleNotFoundError: No module named 'Image'" what am i missing? i have pillow installed, i think
12:28:46  <Eddi|zuHause> ah, only for python2, not python3
12:31:47  <Eddi|zuHause> "grfcodec: error while loading shared libraries: cannot open shared object file: No such file or directory" great... next?
12:33:29  <andythenorth> never seen that :o
12:34:04  <andythenorth> what OS?
12:34:10  <Eddi|zuHause> means my grfcodec was built for an older os
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12:37:03  <Wolf01> Ok, need to review a bit the documentation but the code should be ok
12:37:44  <Eddi|zuHause> > make
12:37:45  <Eddi|zuHause> make: *** Keine Regel vorhanden, um das Ziel „/usr/include/libpng12/png.h“,
12:37:47  <Eddi|zuHause>   benötigt von „objs/pngsprit.o“, zu erstellen.  Schluss.
12:37:57  <Eddi|zuHause> why would it try libpng12 when i have libpng16?
12:39:22  <Eddi|zuHause> > libpng-config --cflags
12:39:23  <Eddi|zuHause> -I/usr/include/libpng16
12:40:49  <Eddi|zuHause> seems i needed a make clean
12:42:07  <Eddi|zuHause> src/pseudo.cpp:719:100: error: no match for ‘operator<’ (operand types are ‘std::_Bind_helper<false, long unsigned int (std::vector<std::__cxx11::basic_string<char>, std::allocator<std::__cxx11::basic_string<char> > >::*)() const noexcept, const boost::lambda::lambda_functor<boost::lambda::placeholder<1> >&>::type {aka std::_Bind<long unsigned int (std::vector<std::__cxx11::basic_string<char>, std::allocator<std::__cxx11::basic_
12:42:09  <Eddi|zuHause> string<char> > >::*(boost::lambda::lambda_functor<boost::lambda::placeholder<1> >))() const noexcept>}’ and ‘std::_Bind_helper<false, long unsigned int (std::vector<std::__cxx11::basic_string<char>, std::allocator<std::__cxx11::basic_string<char> > >::*)() const noexcept, const boost::lambda::lambda_functor<boost::lambda::placeholder<2> >&>::type {aka std::_Bind<long unsigned int (std::vector<std::__cxx11::basic_string<char>, std::
12:42:10  <Eddi|zuHause> allocator<std::__cxx11::basic_string<char> > >::*(boost::lambda::lambda_functor<boost::lambda::placeholder<2> >))() const noexcept>}’)
12:42:12  <Eddi|zuHause>    uint columns = (uint)max_element(sections.begin(),sections.end(), bind(&vector<string>::size,_1) < bind(&vector<string>::size,_2))->size();
12:42:13  <Eddi|zuHause> uhm what?
12:42:32  <Eddi|zuHause> anyone built grfcodec lately?
12:43:58  * andythenorth tries
12:44:26  <Wolf01> <- andythenorth
12:44:32  <andythenorth> Eddi|zuHause: sorry, grfcodec builds for me :(
12:44:40  <andythenorth> rev 994
12:45:01  <andythenorth> Wolf01: o_O
12:45:07  <Wolf01> Now I'll go back to do nothing for 6 months
12:45:28  <Eddi|zuHause> maybe i should try updating first :p
12:45:42  <Wolf01> This stuff of getting things done with git gave me a headache
12:46:06  <Eddi|zuHause> loads of warnings still, but it builds
12:46:29  <michi_cc> andythenorth: Is PR#9620 doing what you expect?
12:48:26  <michi_cc> 6920 of course :)
12:48:45  <andythenorth> haven't tested it yet :)
12:48:59  <andythenorth> switching between too many repos right now :P
12:54:26  <Eddi|zuHause> ok, so how do i suppress this "libpng warning: iCCP: known incorrect sRGB profile"?
12:56:35  <andythenorth> you can't :(
12:56:41  <andythenorth> you can strip the sRGB profiles
12:56:45  <andythenorth> but they come back
12:58:08  <Eddi|zuHause> i think my makefile is broken
13:05:48  <Eddi|zuHause> "UNIX2DOS_FLAGS ?= $(shell [ -n $(UNIX2DOS) ] && $(UNIX2DOS) -q --version 2>/dev/null && echo "-q" || echo "")" <-- how did this ever work?
13:07:29  <andythenorth> well did it? o_O
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13:08:42  <Eddi|zuHause> i'm not even sure what it's meant to do... it tries to call "unix2dos -q", and hopes that doesn't actually output a thing?
13:09:01  <andythenorth> is this the old coop makefile? o_O
13:09:05  <Eddi|zuHause> yes
13:09:26  <andythenorth> iirc, pm decided that was too complex
13:09:29  <Eddi|zuHause> i was trying to update CETS with new TE calculation
13:09:55  <andythenorth> CC=clang CXX=clang++ CXXFLAGS=-std=c++11 LDFLAGS="-liconv" ./configure
13:09:58  <andythenorth>
13:09:58  <Eddi|zuHause> anyway, adding >/dev/null there works
13:10:00  <andythenorth> wrong paste
13:10:19  <Eddi|zuHause> not quite that bad :p
13:13:03  <Eddi|zuHause> i'm assuming coop build process is still broken?
13:13:21  <andythenorth> not last time I checked
13:13:25  <andythenorth> frosch fixed it
13:13:31  <andythenorth>
13:13:40  <andythenorth> CETS is broken though :)
13:14:43  <Eddi|zuHause> yeah, last time i checked it's trying to use regular nml instead of eddi-nml like it's supposed to
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13:15:55  <Eddi|zuHause> 13:12:46 [NML] src/headers.nfo
13:15:57  <Eddi|zuHause> 13:12:49 Usage: nmlc [options] <filename>
13:16:02  <Eddi|zuHause> that doesn't sound right
13:17:12  <Eddi|zuHause> 13:12:49 nmlc: error: no such option: --verbosity
13:17:16  <Eddi|zuHause> uh why?
13:18:26  <Eddi|zuHause> 13:12:35 + make NML=/var/lib/jenkins/bin/repos/nml-eddi/nmlc
13:18:33  <Eddi|zuHause> so nml should be the correct one now
13:18:44  <Eddi|zuHause> but why is it different than my local build?
13:20:02  <Eddi|zuHause>   --verbosity=<level>   Set the verbosity level for informational output.
13:20:04  <Eddi|zuHause>                         [default: 3, max: 4]
13:20:35  <Eddi|zuHause> makefile is trying to set --verbosity=1
13:23:12  <Eddi|zuHause> <-- uhm, why the fuck is it trying to execute "wine pythonw.exe"?
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13:26:20  <andythenorth> michi_cc: updated, wfm
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13:28:08  <Eddi|zuHause> can i trigger a rebuild without pushing anything?
13:30:08  <andythenorth> you can if you're logged into jenkins
13:30:15  <andythenorth> however the login appears to be broken
13:30:15  <andythenorth> so eh
13:31:01  <Eddi|zuHause> do i have a login there?
13:31:30  <andythenorth> it's supposed to be same as devzone
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13:31:53  <Eddi|zuHause> well that didn't work...
13:32:07  <Eddi|zuHause> and i checked on devzone
13:33:53  <andythenorth> could ask ^Spike^
13:34:16  <andythenorth> I am logged into devzone fine, but jenkins says my creds are invalid
13:37:29  * andythenorth biab
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14:20:26  <Samu> heh, a slower pathfinder has immediate drawbacks
14:20:43  <Samu> the ai used to be at the top :(
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14:41:29  <Eddi|zuHause> all these new gdpr questions makes it even more impossible to browse random websites without javascript :/
14:44:42  <andythenorth> :x
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14:50:06  <Eddi|zuHause> hm, so life is strange:before the storm came out on linux a few weeks ago, but that means it lost my savegame from the windows version i played before
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14:57:53  <Samu> I feel like doing an AI competition
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14:58:25  <Samu> for 1.8.0, unless you have planned a 1.8.1 in sight
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14:58:51  <Samu> then i'll wait
14:59:10  <nielsm> I don't think there's any changes suitable for a 1.8.1 that can't wait until a 1.9
14:59:22  <nielsm> of what's currently in
15:01:10  <Samu> i'd like to invite someone else to give me an openttd config for the competition
15:01:17  <Samu> instead of being me
15:02:20  <Samu> i'm a bit biased
15:02:40  <andythenorth> nielsm: well we need newgrf docks for 1.9 :P
15:02:44  <Samu> like, i've never use newgrfs
15:02:48  * andythenorth just mentions it
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15:05:53  <Eddi|zuHause> so... savegame copied
15:08:09  <Samu> unsure about doing 100 year long competitions
15:08:36  <Samu> my system hasn't been stable, wouldn't like to risk it
15:08:51  <Samu> these past few days it's been doing alright, though, heh...
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15:17:07  <andythenorth> mmm
15:17:23  <andythenorth> seems that Iron Horse engines were very finely balanced wrt TE :P
15:17:29  <andythenorth> now they are all a bit nerfed
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15:44:12  <snail_UES_> anyone would care to add translations to the French NG set?
15:44:25  <snail_UES_> it’s complete and I’m planning to release it in the next few weeks...
15:44:37  <andythenorth> complete :o
15:44:38  <andythenorth> :)
15:44:48  <andythenorth> that's a big result snail_UES_
15:44:50  <andythenorth> it has been years :)
15:44:54  <snail_UES_> haha yeah
15:45:11  <snail_UES_> I started using m4nfo in around 2010...
15:45:26  <snail_UES_> been drawing since 2005 :D
15:46:13  <snail_UES_> so far I’ve only got French and Italian, plus a few strings in German and Dutch …
15:46:22  <snail_UES_> anything more would be much appreciated ;)
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15:51:40  <Eddi|zuHause> andythenorth: nothing you couldn't fix with a simple factor over all vehicles
15:53:30  <andythenorth> I'm not sure if it's set wide
15:54:03  <andythenorth> the later generation wagons are each 1-2t heavier than when I first balanced the set
15:54:09  <andythenorth> and have 2-4t more cargo
15:54:19  <andythenorth> and for 10-20 wagons I think it makes just enough difference
16:04:16  <Eddi|zuHause> well, what you call "nerf" is just a linear factor, it can be offset by the inverse factor
16:07:11  <Eddi|zuHause> snail_UES_: thought about using eints for translations? (no idea if there is anyone around that could set that up, though. probably needs some adaptation for m4nfo as well)
16:07:40  <snail_UES_> yes, I don’t know how to make it work with m4nfo
16:07:57  <snail_UES_> so I’m just writing a TXT file and asking some good soul to translate it for me :)
16:08:29  <Eddi|zuHause> i can't imagine it being too complicated to adapt eints to your file format, or the other way around...
16:09:18  <snail_UES_> hmm, what kind of file does eints need? is there any documentation?
16:09:36  <Eddi|zuHause> let's start with what kind of file you have?
16:10:06  <snail_UES_> a simple TXT file with text in quotes (“”) in English
16:11:08  <Eddi|zuHause> NML's text file format is fairly close to the openttd format, so you have each line consisting of "STR_IDENTIFIER :sometextthatneedstranslating"
16:11:36  <snail_UES_> without quotes?
16:11:42  <Eddi|zuHause> without quotes
16:11:51  <snail_UES_> STR_0001: this is the first line of text
16:11:55  <snail_UES_> ^^ like this?
16:12:10  <Eddi|zuHause> yeah, just the space between the : and the text would count towards the text
16:12:37  <snail_UES_> STR_0001 :this is the first line of text
16:12:46  <Eddi|zuHause> so usually you would have "STR_WHATEVER[anynumberofspaceshere]:[nospacehere]text"
16:13:17  <Eddi|zuHause> for extra prettyness, the : would be aligned in one column [using fixed-width-text]
16:13:24  <snail_UES_> right...
16:14:21  <snail_UES_> it’d be fairly easy for me to make a file like that. Then I need to set eints up?
16:14:33  <andythenorth> Eddi|zuHause: I've applied a linear factor, per generation :P
16:14:34  <Eddi|zuHause> if all you have is vehicle names, that should be everything you need. if you have more complicated stuff, you need to support string parameters and cases and stuff
16:15:04  <Eddi|zuHause> andythenorth: ok, but that has nothing to do with the alledged "nerf"
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16:16:37  <frosch123> snail_UES_: isr uses eints and some scripts to provide translations for an nfo grf
16:17:28  <snail_UES_> some of my text is a bit complex, although I don’t think I need cases...
16:17:33  <frosch123>
16:18:43  <Eddi|zuHause> i remember in ancient times when i introduced genders into NFO-FIRS
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16:19:25  <snail_UES_> looking at the code now…
16:19:30  <andythenorth> we should switch back to nfo
16:19:32  <andythenorth> I miss it
16:19:40  <Eddi|zuHause> but whatever specials you need, it should be a fairly simple 1:1 conversion
16:19:51  <frosch123> andythenorth: chips :)
16:19:51  <snail_UES_> I’d have to install python :p
16:20:01  <andythenorth> not for nfo
16:20:25  <Eddi|zuHause> i'm pretty sure you could teach m4 to do that :p
16:20:45  <snail_UES_> right...
16:20:58  <Eddi|zuHause> just i have no clue how m4 actually works...
16:21:14  <snail_UES_> creating a file for eints shouldn’t be that hard (I can even do it with excel)
16:21:27  <snail_UES_> I’ll try to figure something out…
16:23:59  <Eddi|zuHause> well, the general idea is to have it done automatically... whatever strings you change will automatically be flagged by eints as "needs new translations", and whenever some translator changes anything, the translation will automatically be built into the grf (e.g. nightly version or next release) without you having to do anything special
16:24:00  <snail_UES_> I have to “apply for a project” in eints translator, right?
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16:24:41  <snail_UES_> right, but what I’ll need as an output will be an actual text file
16:24:46  <snail_UES_> since I don’t work in nml...
16:25:18  <snail_UES_> I was hoping I could create my project on the eints translator, then people would start adding new languages, and I could download text files as a result...
16:25:28  <snail_UES_> and then I’d embed that text in my code
16:26:09  <Eddi|zuHause> you could probably do that. it's just more manual work, and doesn't really simplify any code
16:26:41  <snail_UES_> but I’d guess it simplifies the translators’ life… :p
16:27:13  <snail_UES_> instead of having to manually download and edit a text file from the forum, they would directly translate stuff up there
16:27:59  <Eddi|zuHause> yes
16:28:02  <snail_UES_> oh, but does the final work need to be GPL if you use eints?
16:28:26  <snail_UES_> I can see this in the default text for the application...
16:28:55  <Eddi|zuHause> i don't think so... devzone has some "must be somewhat free license" TOS, but it isn't fixed to GPL
16:29:51  <Eddi|zuHause> i can see someone objecting if you don't want to share your whole code, though
16:30:35  <snail_UES_> ah… so in order to use the eints translator, I need to basically register the whole project there?
16:30:58  <Eddi|zuHause> you should probably talk to some actual devzone admin about that
16:32:47  <Eddi|zuHause> snail_UES_: i'm fairly sure it's legal if you add just the translations, but give those a free license like CC-BY(-SA)
16:33:22  <snail_UES_> ok
16:34:07  <snail_UES_> I can add the translators’ names in the credits as well, provided I know who did what
16:34:33  <Eddi|zuHause> nobody can force you to release your whole GRF, and CC-BY(without-SA) allows you to include the translations in your proprietary project
16:34:58  <Eddi|zuHause> there's probably a way to export the names of the translators
16:36:49  <snail_UES_> so the set would be copyrighted and the translations would be under CC-BY standards?
16:37:00  <Eddi|zuHause> yes
16:37:04  <snail_UES_> ok, if that’s acceptable, I’ll apply to eints
16:43:35  <frosch123> the android port also has only translations on devzone
16:44:40  <snail_UES_> thanks… I’ll have to submit the translation file immediately upon applying, right?
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16:47:15  <Eddi|zuHause> not necessarily. i think you apply for a project, which means a (hg or git) repo will be installed, and then you push your file to that repo
16:48:03  <snail_UES_> ok
16:48:10  <Eddi|zuHause> then eints can be set up to generate the translation files
16:48:41  <Eddi|zuHause> and then you can pull from the repo to build the translations into your grf
16:49:51  <Eddi|zuHause> there's some intermediate steps like setting up an ssh key so you can get write access to your repo and stuff
16:52:25  <snail_UES_> ah… I hope I’ll get instructions on how to do that upon applying
16:52:40  <snail_UES_> otherwise it sounds like it’s simpler to just post the text file on the forums :D
16:54:27  <Eddi|zuHause> it's only difficult once :p
16:55:26  <Eddi|zuHause> i think it's worth the effort, though. you get way better and more consistent feedback through eints
16:59:41  <frosch123> most people fail to setup their ssh key
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17:39:11  <Eddi|zuHause>
17:39:33  <andythenorth> trollish
17:41:34  <snail_UES_> bah
17:41:51  <Eddi|zuHause> context where that came up was
17:42:05  <snail_UES_> they said their cheating would destroy the company, 3 years have passed and they’re still #1 :D
17:42:13  <Eddi|zuHause> the idea there being "if tests fail, remove all changes and start from scratch"
17:42:36  <Eddi|zuHause> snail_UES_: problem is that all others also cheated?
17:43:15  <snail_UES_> yeah, good luck finding a company that tells the truth to its customers
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18:06:24  <Samu> looks like i need to install tortoise svn :(
18:08:58  <Samu> does the svn thing still exist for openttd?
18:09:23  <Samu> or am I doomed
18:11:42  <Samu>
18:11:43  <andythenorth> svn is over
18:12:03  <Samu> I hope tortoise svn still works with this
18:13:14  <Samu> yes! it's doing the checkout stuff
18:13:27  <nielsm> github has svn emulation from the git repositories, actually
18:13:47  <nielsm> I've never tried it though
18:14:04  <Samu> holy crap, it's getting every version :(
18:14:09  <Samu> 0.7, 1.0
18:14:12  <Samu> etc...
18:14:22  <Samu> not really what I wanted, but ok
18:17:12  <Samu> 0.3.4 yay
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18:25:15  <LordAro> Samu: you missed out /trunk, didn't you? :p
18:25:28  <LordAro> also, why do you need svn? the releases are still available in git
18:25:43  <LordAro> git checkout v1.8.0 or something
18:25:58  <LordAro> (git tags for a list)
18:29:12  <Samu> i have some svn patches here that I want to apply
18:29:18  <Samu> old work
18:29:38  <Samu> just hoping tortoise svn apply patch still work
18:30:07  <LordAro> it will not
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18:30:16  <LordAro> git apply is a command that exists
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18:30:29  <LordAro> i imagine there's a tortoisegit button to press as will
18:30:32  <LordAro> well*
18:30:44  <Samu> the patch is in svn format :(
18:31:11  <Samu> wondering how am i gonna do this
18:31:22  <LordAro> git can cope with this
18:31:27  <Samu> still downloading everything
18:31:54  <Samu> 1 GB transfered already, lol
18:32:12  <LordAro> "tortoisegit apply patch" was not a hard google
18:32:39  <Samu> tortoisegit apply tortoisesvn patch
18:32:44  <Samu> let me google
18:33:02  <LordAro> Samu: kill it, delete whatever you've already downloaded, and add /trunk to whatever url you checked out
18:33:10  <LordAro> it will be much faster
18:35:24  <Samu> ok, doing 2 checkouts at the same time, just in case
18:35:35  <Samu> is this "trunk" the same as the "master"?
18:37:08  <LordAro> yes
18:37:17  <LordAro> how have you forgotten how svn works already?
18:38:08  <Samu> real nice
18:38:20  <LordAro> i still maintain that you don't need it at all
18:38:56  <Samu> Revision: 24144 Author: translators Date: segunda-feira, 24 de setembro de 2018 18:45:43 Message: Update: Translations from eints spanish (mexican): 2 changes by Absay ---- Modified : /trunk/src/lang/spanish_MX.txt
18:39:17  <andythenorth> oof
18:39:19  <Samu> are we at 24144?
18:39:23  <andythenorth> can we do something interesting? :)
18:39:38  <andythenorth> maybe approve some PRs :P
18:39:41  <Samu> 24th september 2018
18:39:44  <Samu> was the last change?
18:44:31  <Samu> how come i'm deleting 5 GB if I only downloaded 1.3 GB?
18:44:40  <Samu> whatever, doesn't matter
18:45:59  <LordAro> text is very compressible
18:47:39  <andythenorth> hmm
18:54:05  <Samu> oh yeah, it still work! i can now commit to my fork thingy on github
18:54:21  <Samu> brach?
18:55:47  <LordAro> branch on your fork
18:56:21  <snail_UES_> andythenorth: what program do you use to draw your graphics?
18:57:16  <andythenorth> photoshop
18:57:22  <Samu> let me first see what visual studio has to say about my build first
18:57:25  <snail_UES_> ah… does it support palettes?
18:57:28  <andythenorth> yes
18:57:47  <snail_UES_> nice. I’ll have to switch when silly apple bans 32-bit apps :p
18:58:16  <snail_UES_> I’ll probably ask you how to create and use a palette there
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19:00:45  <andythenorth> what are you using snail_UES_ ?
19:01:23  <Samu> yay it still builds!
19:01:28  <Samu> i thought i'd never see this again
19:05:20  <snail_UES_> graphic converter 6
19:05:40  <snail_UES_> it’s an old version, because the newer ones dropped support for palettes years ago
19:08:20  <andythenorth> oh that still exists? o_O
19:08:52  <andythenorth> I tried pixelmator for a bit
19:09:31  <andythenorth> photoshop is ££
19:15:18  <Samu> publishing branch, let's see
19:16:00  <Samu>
19:16:04  <Samu> it werks!
19:17:56  <Samu> Large diffs are not rendered by default. :p
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19:19:27  <andythenorth> hmm
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19:26:24  <andythenorth> one wagon type for each cargo type? o_O
19:26:50  <andythenorth> like original TTD?
19:28:33  <andythenorth> there are only 84 cargos in FIRS :P
19:28:37  <andythenorth> it's probably fine, right?
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19:38:08  <snail_UES_> andythenorth: 84 different types of freigh wagons? :O
19:38:16  <andythenorth> it's an idea
19:38:18  <snail_UES_> maybe with multiple generations?
19:38:26  <andythenorth> with 6 generations
19:38:31  <andythenorth> @calc 84 * 6
19:38:31  <DorpsGek> andythenorth: 504
19:38:36  <andythenorth> and 2 lengths
19:38:39  <andythenorth> 1008
19:38:45  <andythenorth> 'no'?
19:38:49  <snail_UES_> :D
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19:39:31  <snail_UES_> purchase list variants, anyone?...
19:39:58  <Eddi|zuHause> no. that's what we have actual refits for
19:40:07  <Eddi|zuHause> it's like their only reason to exist
19:40:41  <Eddi|zuHause> don't try to hunt for "BAD FEATURES"...
19:41:01  <andythenorth> aren't refits for liveries Eddi|zuHause? :P
19:42:27  <Eddi|zuHause> *mental note*don't get lost in files dated "2002"
19:47:02  <andythenorth> indisuputably useful advice
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22:23:51  <Samu> cpu evaluator crash, the bane of many AIs
22:25:16  <Samu> oh, Delerium are out with a new out
22:25:22  <Samu> - I totally missed it
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22:39:25  <peter1138> A new out?
22:40:14  <Samu> album
22:40:51  <Samu> yeah september 2016... that was 2 years ago already, how did I miss it
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22:45:46  <Samu> it's sad depressing music, nobody likes it, except me
22:46:16  <Samu> used to be worse in the early years
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23:06:56  <peter1138> "Delerium is a Canadian ambient electronic musical duo"
23:07:19  <peter1138> Listens to first track on Mythologie... yeah... no, that's not particularly ambient.
23:08:05  <Samu> - Fix: [Script] Kill scripts, when a non-suspendable valuator call takes way too long [FS#6473] (r27594)
23:08:21  <Samu> great fix :p
23:08:27  <Samu> j/k
23:08:56  <Samu> will never forget though
23:14:14  <peter1138> Well, don't let your valuators take too long.
23:15:24  <Samu> make valuators suspendable would be a better fix :(
23:41:42  <peter1138> Go on then
23:41:51  <peter1138> I suspect you know more about the subject than me :p
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23:47:31  <Samu> ewww, no. that part of the code is too scary to touch
23:48:10  <Samu> it's kind of a bridge-code between squirrel and openttd
23:49:24  <Samu> the coding style is different

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