Log for #openttd on 3rd October 2018:
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13:28:42  <Samu> no offense to 7zip, but winrar has a better integration with windows explorer
13:32:33  <Samu> speaking of winrar, let me install sublime merge
13:34:04  <Samu> LordAro: Sublime Merge or Sublimerge? there's a slight difference
13:34:12  <Samu>
13:34:22  <Samu>
13:36:16  <Samu> just want to make sure I'm installing the right one
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14:36:38  <LordAro> Samu: sublimemerge
14:37:05  <LordAro> (the other looks like a plugin for sublime text)
14:44:13  <Samu> installed
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14:53:53  <Samu> wow, this is a big mess for me
14:54:19  <Samu>
14:54:37  <Samu> it's showing me stuff that's already implemented :(
14:55:03  <Samu> so many lines
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14:57:26  <Samu> trees, branches
14:57:32  <Samu> hard to follow
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14:58:53  <Samu> the translations are always getting in the way
15:08:22  <Samu> --------------------------- Sublime Merge --------------------------- D:\OpenTTD\OpenTTD svn-trunk doesn't look like a git repository --------------------------- OK    ---------------------------
15:08:56  <Samu> uhm, i forgot why I wanted sublime merge
15:10:20  <Samu> where does it open svn patches?
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15:46:35  <LordAro> Samu: the idea was to enable you to rebase/amend without a commandline
15:46:45  <LordAro> and yes, an svn checkout is not a git repo
15:47:11  <Samu> ahh, you're right
15:47:15  <Samu> I remember
15:47:32  <Samu> yeah, maybe next time I have a rebase/amend problem
15:47:39  <Samu> will try use it
15:49:18  <LordAro> :)
15:49:45  <Samu> perhaps I have one now
15:50:03  <Samu> your compilers don't like that I don't use parentheses
15:50:47  <Samu> visual studio here doesn't complain about it, I couldn't guess
15:50:56  <Samu> does it need solving?
15:52:16  <Samu>
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15:56:59  <nielsm> it's only warnings, but yes you should address those and add the parentheses to make the evaluation order explicit
15:58:07  <nielsm> the reason it's a warning is that most people can never remember whether || or && has the higher precedence so it's a risk of mistakes leaving out the parentheses
15:59:10  <Samu> do i use rebase?
15:59:37  <nielsm> it's okay to add another commit on top to fix that
15:59:56  <nielsm> like, "Fix: compiler warnings"
16:00:02  <Samu> oh, ok
16:00:06  <nielsm> we can squash it all when merging into master
16:01:13  <Samu> I also forgot about a variable not being used further down in that log
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16:10:03  <Samu> if (v->current_order.IsType(OT_GOTO_STATION) || 					(v->current_order.IsType(OT_GOTO_DEPOT) && v->current_order.GetDepotActionType() != ODATFB_NEAREST_DEPOT)) {
16:10:09  <Samu> like this?
16:12:07  <nielsm> looks right
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16:23:23  <Samu> alright, let's see what the compiler dudes say now
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17:09:22  <Samu>
17:09:26  <Samu> it liked it
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18:01:20  <andythenorth> but is cat?
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18:48:42  <andythenorth> oof
19:01:44  <andythenorth> eh, we have sprite layers now right?
19:01:58  <Wolf01> Are you ready to abuse it?
19:02:40  <andythenorth> trying to decide how to composite pantographs onto electric trains
19:02:51  <andythenorth> obviously I could just draw them into the sprite :P
19:05:00  <Eddi|zuHause> then what did we implement composite sprites for?
19:06:10  <andythenorth> my thinking too
19:06:45  <andythenorth> so I could (a) draw them (b) composite them into my sprites programmatically with PIL (c) use sprite layers
19:07:12  <andythenorth> if (b) I would use magic pixels to locate the pantographs
19:07:27  <andythenorth> I prefer (c) in this case, for reasons
19:09:10  <andythenorth> but I have to feed offsets to nml for the pantograph position, which is tedious to do manually
19:09:24  <andythenorth> so I wondered about generating those from the position of magic pixels :P
19:11:02  <andythenorth> how many layers do I get?
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19:36:56  <andythenorth> 4 apparently
19:37:07  <andythenorth> I'm already using one for rear lights
19:37:11  <andythenorth> 2 left :P
19:37:19  <andythenorth> how many pantographs do trains have?
19:43:09  <Heiki> depends on the train, 2 is probably most common for single-unit locomotives
19:46:46  <nielsm> yeah locos tend to have 2 pantographs, when it's the half-pantograph type they're usually mirrored, and apparently which one is used can depend on both direction of travel and type or load or perhaps consist max speed
19:47:05  <nielsm> and some locos might use both pantographs when pulling heavy loads
19:48:35  <Heiki> using more than 1 pantograph is common with lower voltages such as 1.5 or 3 kilovolts
19:48:51  <nielsm> for EMUs there aren't any clear rules but I don't think you have EMUs in horse?
19:49:40  <andythenorth> I do have some
19:49:53  <andythenorth> so do I commit the 2 spare layers to pantographs?
19:49:58  <andythenorth> what else might I want them for?
19:50:09  <nielsm> I remember driving one advanced loco in train simulator where the manual said you should raise both pantographs for goods trains, that was on german main line
19:50:44  <nielsm> nah I'd just use a single layer and have 4 variations of the pantograph sprite
19:50:52  <nielsm> (both down, first up, second up, both up)
19:51:04  <andythenorth> different engines have different spacing between the two
19:51:14  <andythenorth> so I need two layers
19:51:38  <nielsm> how many variations of that do you possibly have?
19:51:39  <andythenorth> there are alternatives where I generate spritesheets for the pantogrpahs
19:51:42  <nielsm> two or three?
19:52:53  <andythenorth> three in the current version of Horse
19:53:55  <andythenorth> it's only barely worth automating this at all
19:54:02  <andythenorth> I could just paste them in the spritesheet
19:54:50  <andythenorth> but I have 13 engines, and only two actual types of pantograph
19:55:07  <andythenorth> "don't repeat yourself" applies in spades
19:56:13  <nielsm> the good thing about hobby projects is you can spend as much time as you like doing things "the right way"!
19:57:45  <andythenorth> so
19:57:55  <andythenorth> I can use magic pixels in the engine spritesheet
19:58:12  <andythenorth> to locate the pantographs, which are then composited into a new spritesheet
19:58:29  <andythenorth> including various up/down positions
19:58:46  <andythenorth> which are then used by a single sprite layer in game, separate from the base engine sprite
19:59:12  <andythenorth> it sounds complex, but is actually the cleanest solution resp. NML templates and spritesheet layouts
19:59:27  <andythenorth> and is still better than manual placement
20:00:36  <andythenorth> oof, debugging sprite layer placement is tedious, have to actually run OpenTTD
20:01:03  <andythenorth> but I can also pre-generate what the composited result would be, and inspect that in the spritesheet, just for debugging
20:01:09  <andythenorth> graphics processing is the most fun
20:04:13  <andythenorth> ok, samu can have the channel back now :P
20:04:53  <Eddi|zuHause> andythenorth: typical rules for pantographs: 1) engines tend to have 2 pantographs, sometimes more for multi-power engines. 2) as long as both pantographs apply to the same power system, the second one (in travel direction) is raised. 2a) if two engines are in a train, and each one needs a pantograph raised, the two most distant from each other are raised (again, permitting compatible power systems)
20:06:03  <andythenorth> Eddi|zuHause: so I should also do consist-dependent pantograph combinations? o_O
20:06:05  <Eddi|zuHause> the distance between the two raised pantographs directly applies a speed limit, to suppress induced mechanical fluctuations in the wire
20:06:24  <andythenorth> I think we can skip the speed limit
20:06:27  <Eddi|zuHause> andythenorth: probably TMWFTLB
20:06:36  <andythenorth> worryingly, I already have a lot of consist dependent code :P
20:06:44  <andythenorth> and I can generate all combinations of up/down
20:06:56  <andythenorth> if you gave me the ruleset, I probably would implement
20:07:05  <andythenorth> even though it's silly overkill
20:07:44  <andythenorth> what if there are 3 engines?
20:07:58  <Eddi|zuHause> you lost.
20:08:30  <Eddi|zuHause> in most (european) cases, the 3rd engine is at the end of the train, though
20:09:01  <Eddi|zuHause> and this basically only applies to freight trains, which need support going uphill, so speed isn't the main concern there
20:09:39  <andythenorth>
20:09:40  <andythenorth> Sq
20:09:57  <Eddi|zuHause> that link is broken
20:10:05  <andythenorth> 4? o_O
20:10:11  <andythenorth> that link is awful, sorry
20:10:15  <andythenorth> they really shouldn't
20:10:24  <andythenorth> ridiculous token length
20:11:30  <andythenorth> hmm
20:11:34  <Eddi|zuHause> in that last picture you see that the last engine has the last pantograph raised, the others the first
20:11:50  <andythenorth> and if the player flips the engine, should the pantograph flip, or stay in technically correct position?
20:12:46  <Eddi|zuHause> actual driving direction is important
20:13:11  <Eddi|zuHause> also, keep in mind that shunting may actually make it into the game, which will basically destroy all your consist code
20:16:15  <andythenorth> I will deal with that if it occurs
20:16:34  <andythenorth> it will have some 'interesting' side effects
20:17:35  <andythenorth> I could always respond sensibly
20:17:53  <andythenorth> maybe delete all my tt-forum posts, then start a simutrans account, then delete all those
20:18:09  <andythenorth> or I could maybe decide to try and get bananas taken down with a DMCA notice
20:18:52  <andythenorth> it's kind of hard to think how to top previous rage quits :P
20:19:27  <Eddi|zuHause> you mean simuscape?
20:19:42  <Eddi|zuHause> i barely remember more than 3 ragequits
20:21:00  <andythenorth> I did mean simuscape, oops
20:21:28  <andythenorth> ok so 4 spriterows
20:21:38  <andythenorth> all up, all down, A up B down, A down, B up
20:22:00  <andythenorth> if the engine breaks down, should I lower the pantographs? :P
20:23:31  <Eddi|zuHause> mind you, the "only second pantograph" rule applies to modern engines, historical engines of the early generations had both pantographs raised at all times
20:23:41  <andythenorth> yes
20:23:46  <andythenorth> I am going to accomodate that
20:23:52  <Eddi|zuHause> there contact-redundancy had a bigger importance than speed
20:24:29  <Eddi|zuHause> until they invented better pantographs and spring systems and stuff
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20:32:48  <nielsm> also, I am not sure why, but the single electric passenger loco running in denmark atm, in push-pull operation with control car on the other end, when it's turning around at the end of line, the pantographs are both down while the drives moves to the other cab
20:33:14  <nielsm> probably not anything to work in :P
20:33:45  <nielsm> well, maybe... if it's possible to set a trigger on "waiting for load and still not fully loaded"
20:33:56  <nielsm> (or "waiting on timetable)
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20:46:54  <nielsm> thinking about it, it's probably just because they'll be switching pantograph anyway, so may as well make the procedure to always lower it when leaving a cab, and raise the correct one when entering the other cab
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20:55:30  <Wolf01> 'night
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21:32:08  <LordAro> hmm
21:32:12  <LordAro> needs reviews
21:32:47  <LordAro> codewise most of Samu's stuff looks fine, but i don't know enough about most of the code to know if it's the correct solution, or what is desired
21:51:28  <sushibear> You know what? OTTD is a roguelikelike. Like dwarf fortress :)
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22:00:56  <peter1138> LordAro, seems half of them even he doesn't know what it does :p
22:01:57  <LordAro> well, at least one
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22:23:50  <Samu> hi LordAro, I'm looking at it
22:27:22  <Samu> brb creating savegame
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22:42:51  <Samu> hmm about the interactive rebase
22:43:00  <Samu> gonna try use the new program
22:44:13  <LordAro> good luck!
22:44:24  <LordAro> i can't help you with it :p
22:44:31  <LordAro> well, probably
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23:08:07  <Samu> only have Rebase branch
23:08:19  <Samu> oh well, let's try screw things up
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23:10:55  <Samu> uh that's it, panic mode, I don't understand what's happening in the background
23:13:04  <LordAro> hmm, probably want to go back to git bash then
23:13:18  <LordAro> (can't offer any more help tonight, sleep time)
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