Times are UTC Toggle Colours
00:10:07 *** rocky11384497 has joined #openttd 00:11:50 *** Thedarkb-T60 has quit IRC 00:15:25 *** snail_UES_ has joined #openttd 00:53:48 *** HerzogDeXtEr has quit IRC 00:58:03 *** Supercheese has quit IRC 01:22:13 *** WWacko1976-work has joined #openttd 01:22:25 *** Flygon has joined #openttd 02:35:13 *** snail_UES_ has quit IRC 03:12:48 *** haudrauf has quit IRC 03:17:01 *** haudrauf has joined #openttd 03:33:41 *** Wacko1976 has quit IRC 03:42:36 *** Supercheese has joined #openttd 04:08:00 *** ToBeFree has quit IRC 04:28:42 *** glx has quit IRC 05:14:45 *** sla_ro|master has joined #openttd 06:00:19 *** sim-al2 has joined #openttd 06:40:21 *** sim-al2 has quit IRC 07:11:45 *** sla_ro|master has quit IRC 07:25:53 *** Supercheese has quit IRC 07:26:14 *** Supercheese has joined #openttd 07:37:46 *** Supercheese has quit IRC 07:42:18 *** triolus has joined #openttd 07:52:49 *** Progman has joined #openttd 08:08:03 *** gelignite has joined #openttd 08:53:57 *** andythenorth has joined #openttd 09:01:53 *** andythenorth has left #openttd 10:20:30 *** Mazur has quit IRC 10:26:54 *** HerzogDeXtEr has joined #openttd 10:29:42 *** Mazur has joined #openttd 10:41:59 *** Mazur has quit IRC 10:43:07 *** Wacko1976 has joined #openttd 10:50:48 *** Mazur has joined #openttd 11:14:28 *** Mazur has quit IRC 11:23:32 *** Mazur has joined #openttd 12:51:03 *** gelignite has quit IRC 12:51:20 *** Stimrol has quit IRC 12:56:03 *** Samu has joined #openttd 12:59:49 *** snail_UES_ has joined #openttd 13:00:33 *** Stimrol has joined #openttd 13:08:20 *** snail_UES_ has quit IRC 13:28:42 <Samu> no offense to 7zip, but winrar has a better integration with windows explorer 13:32:33 <Samu> speaking of winrar, let me install sublime merge 13:34:04 <Samu> LordAro: Sublime Merge or Sublimerge? there's a slight difference 13:34:12 <Samu> https://www.sublimemerge.com/ 13:34:22 <Samu> https://www.sublimerge.com/ 13:36:16 <Samu> just want to make sure I'm installing the right one 13:48:04 *** Wacko1976_ has joined #openttd 13:54:54 *** Wacko1976 has quit IRC 14:19:07 *** gelignite has joined #openttd 14:22:05 *** techmagus has quit IRC 14:27:08 *** wodencafe has quit IRC 14:28:22 *** sla_ro|master has joined #openttd 14:29:51 *** wodencafe has joined #openttd 14:36:38 <LordAro> Samu: sublimemerge 14:37:05 <LordAro> (the other looks like a plugin for sublime text) 14:44:13 <Samu> installed 14:52:48 *** Wormnest has joined #openttd 14:53:53 <Samu> wow, this is a big mess for me 14:54:19 <Samu> https://imgur.com/EwMQErn 14:54:37 <Samu> it's showing me stuff that's already implemented :( 14:55:03 <Samu> so many lines 14:55:58 *** nielsm has joined #openttd 14:57:26 <Samu> trees, branches 14:57:32 <Samu> hard to follow 14:58:35 *** Flygon has quit IRC 14:58:53 <Samu> the translations are always getting in the way 15:08:22 <Samu> --------------------------- Sublime Merge --------------------------- D:\OpenTTD\OpenTTD svn-trunk doesn't look like a git repository --------------------------- OK --------------------------- 15:08:56 <Samu> uhm, i forgot why I wanted sublime merge 15:10:20 <Samu> where does it open svn patches? 15:35:08 *** glx has joined #openttd 15:35:08 *** ChanServ sets mode: +v glx 15:35:33 *** WWacko1976-work has quit IRC 15:46:35 <LordAro> Samu: the idea was to enable you to rebase/amend without a commandline 15:46:45 <LordAro> and yes, an svn checkout is not a git repo 15:47:11 <Samu> ahh, you're right 15:47:15 <Samu> I remember 15:47:32 <Samu> yeah, maybe next time I have a rebase/amend problem 15:47:39 <Samu> will try use it 15:49:18 <LordAro> :) 15:49:45 <Samu> perhaps I have one now 15:50:03 <Samu> your compilers don't like that I don't use parentheses 15:50:47 <Samu> visual studio here doesn't complain about it, I couldn't guess 15:50:56 <Samu> does it need solving? 15:52:16 <Samu> https://farm.openttd.org/jenkins/blue/organizations/jenkins/OpenTTD%2FOpenTTD/detail/PR-6925/9/pipeline#step-108-log-185 15:55:01 *** techmagus has joined #openttd 15:56:59 <nielsm> it's only warnings, but yes you should address those and add the parentheses to make the evaluation order explicit 15:58:07 <nielsm> the reason it's a warning is that most people can never remember whether || or && has the higher precedence so it's a risk of mistakes leaving out the parentheses 15:59:10 <Samu> do i use rebase? 15:59:37 <nielsm> it's okay to add another commit on top to fix that 15:59:56 <nielsm> like, "Fix: compiler warnings" 16:00:02 <Samu> oh, ok 16:00:06 <nielsm> we can squash it all when merging into master 16:01:13 <Samu> I also forgot about a variable not being used further down in that log 16:07:01 *** Mahjong has quit IRC 16:10:03 <Samu> if (v->current_order.IsType(OT_GOTO_STATION) || (v->current_order.IsType(OT_GOTO_DEPOT) && v->current_order.GetDepotActionType() != ODATFB_NEAREST_DEPOT)) { 16:10:09 <Samu> like this? 16:12:07 <nielsm> looks right 16:20:16 *** wodencafe has quit IRC 16:23:23 <Samu> alright, let's see what the compiler dudes say now 16:29:47 *** Thedarkb-T60 has joined #openttd 16:38:50 *** TheMask96 has quit IRC 16:39:53 *** TheMask96 has joined #openttd 16:40:39 *** Thedarkb-T60 has quit IRC 16:54:55 *** Mahjong has joined #openttd 16:54:57 *** Wolf01 has joined #openttd 17:09:22 <Samu> https://farm.openttd.org/jenkins/blue/organizations/jenkins/OpenTTD%2FOpenTTD/detail/PR-6925/10/pipeline#step-108-log-185 17:09:26 <Samu> it liked it 17:35:46 *** Gja has joined #openttd 17:43:13 *** andythenorth has joined #openttd 17:55:53 *** wodencafe has joined #openttd 18:01:20 <andythenorth> but is cat? 18:02:20 *** cboyd_ has joined #openttd 18:05:56 *** wodencafe has quit IRC 18:29:13 *** Gja has quit IRC 18:48:42 <andythenorth> oof 19:01:44 <andythenorth> eh, we have sprite layers now right? 19:01:58 <Wolf01> Are you ready to abuse it? 19:02:40 <andythenorth> trying to decide how to composite pantographs onto electric trains 19:02:51 <andythenorth> obviously I could just draw them into the sprite :P 19:05:00 <Eddi|zuHause> then what did we implement composite sprites for? 19:06:10 <andythenorth> my thinking too 19:06:45 <andythenorth> so I could (a) draw them (b) composite them into my sprites programmatically with PIL (c) use sprite layers 19:07:12 <andythenorth> if (b) I would use magic pixels to locate the pantographs 19:07:27 <andythenorth> I prefer (c) in this case, for reasons 19:09:10 <andythenorth> but I have to feed offsets to nml for the pantograph position, which is tedious to do manually 19:09:24 <andythenorth> so I wondered about generating those from the position of magic pixels :P 19:11:02 <andythenorth> how many layers do I get? 19:35:05 *** Thedarkb-T60 has joined #openttd 19:36:56 <andythenorth> 4 apparently 19:37:07 <andythenorth> I'm already using one for rear lights 19:37:11 <andythenorth> 2 left :P 19:37:19 <andythenorth> how many pantographs do trains have? 19:43:09 <Heiki> depends on the train, 2 is probably most common for single-unit locomotives 19:46:46 <nielsm> yeah locos tend to have 2 pantographs, when it's the half-pantograph type they're usually mirrored, and apparently which one is used can depend on both direction of travel and type or load or perhaps consist max speed 19:47:05 <nielsm> and some locos might use both pantographs when pulling heavy loads 19:48:35 <Heiki> using more than 1 pantograph is common with lower voltages such as 1.5 or 3 kilovolts 19:48:51 <nielsm> for EMUs there aren't any clear rules but I don't think you have EMUs in horse? 19:49:40 <andythenorth> I do have some 19:49:53 <andythenorth> so do I commit the 2 spare layers to pantographs? 19:49:58 <andythenorth> what else might I want them for? 19:50:09 <nielsm> I remember driving one advanced loco in train simulator where the manual said you should raise both pantographs for goods trains, that was on german main line 19:50:44 <nielsm> nah I'd just use a single layer and have 4 variations of the pantograph sprite 19:50:52 <nielsm> (both down, first up, second up, both up) 19:51:04 <andythenorth> different engines have different spacing between the two 19:51:14 <andythenorth> so I need two layers 19:51:38 <nielsm> how many variations of that do you possibly have? 19:51:39 <andythenorth> there are alternatives where I generate spritesheets for the pantogrpahs 19:51:42 <nielsm> two or three? 19:52:53 <andythenorth> three in the current version of Horse 19:53:55 <andythenorth> it's only barely worth automating this at all 19:54:02 <andythenorth> I could just paste them in the spritesheet 19:54:50 <andythenorth> but I have 13 engines, and only two actual types of pantograph 19:55:07 <andythenorth> "don't repeat yourself" applies in spades 19:56:13 <nielsm> the good thing about hobby projects is you can spend as much time as you like doing things "the right way"! 19:57:45 <andythenorth> so 19:57:55 <andythenorth> I can use magic pixels in the engine spritesheet 19:58:12 <andythenorth> to locate the pantographs, which are then composited into a new spritesheet 19:58:29 <andythenorth> including various up/down positions 19:58:46 <andythenorth> which are then used by a single sprite layer in game, separate from the base engine sprite 19:59:12 <andythenorth> it sounds complex, but is actually the cleanest solution resp. NML templates and spritesheet layouts 19:59:27 <andythenorth> and is still better than manual placement 20:00:36 <andythenorth> oof, debugging sprite layer placement is tedious, have to actually run OpenTTD 20:01:03 <andythenorth> but I can also pre-generate what the composited result would be, and inspect that in the spritesheet, just for debugging 20:01:09 <andythenorth> graphics processing is the most fun 20:04:13 <andythenorth> ok, samu can have the channel back now :P 20:04:53 <Eddi|zuHause> andythenorth: typical rules for pantographs: 1) engines tend to have 2 pantographs, sometimes more for multi-power engines. 2) as long as both pantographs apply to the same power system, the second one (in travel direction) is raised. 2a) if two engines are in a train, and each one needs a pantograph raised, the two most distant from each other are raised (again, permitting compatible power systems) 20:06:03 <andythenorth> Eddi|zuHause: so I should also do consist-dependent pantograph combinations? o_O 20:06:05 <Eddi|zuHause> the distance between the two raised pantographs directly applies a speed limit, to suppress induced mechanical fluctuations in the wire 20:06:24 <andythenorth> I think we can skip the speed limit 20:06:27 <Eddi|zuHause> andythenorth: probably TMWFTLB 20:06:36 <andythenorth> worryingly, I already have a lot of consist dependent code :P 20:06:44 <andythenorth> and I can generate all combinations of up/down 20:06:56 <andythenorth> if you gave me the ruleset, I probably would implement 20:07:05 <andythenorth> even though it's silly overkill 20:07:44 <andythenorth> what if there are 3 engines? 20:07:58 <Eddi|zuHause> you lost. 20:08:30 <Eddi|zuHause> in most (european) cases, the 3rd engine is at the end of the train, though 20:09:01 <Eddi|zuHause> and this basically only applies to freight trains, which need support going uphill, so speed isn't the main concern there 20:09:39 <andythenorth> https://www.flickr.com/photos/50604235@N05/20158791552/in/photolist-ShuHWy-SMoZko-dse9kr-whFVtC-VH1e4u-RMG8h9-dvcbuq-wHn5pA-T2Cg54-nHg5yE-fLCJSW-eHcW3N-qzM7HZ-WZbXPg-Huq8Gh-bwnSEb-22nCuVX-6HAemd-YrWtKu-dVTf4w-dRus6h-pkoyfd-ZAkxJp-eg7vi-j818bm-WjV7aw-hKGs7E-227pJZs-7gvZFs-9DagHR-dEMCd8-7WtcAo-ZJebzW-93TgF2-Wo47Ms-K8kQsr-VGeoz3-D9XvWs-CueQYp-29upRxu-rmmh1j-nygsyv-aAEMXX-bU6H1V-cgL797-zWmbLz-vneGz6-xCmz8h-qhj9sj-f66 20:09:40 <andythenorth> Sq 20:09:57 <Eddi|zuHause> that link is broken 20:10:05 <andythenorth> 4? o_O https://www.flickr.com/photos/jvanst/38797580484/ 20:10:11 <andythenorth> that link is awful, sorry 20:10:15 <andythenorth> they really shouldn't 20:10:24 <andythenorth> ridiculous token length 20:11:30 <andythenorth> hmm 20:11:34 <Eddi|zuHause> in that last picture you see that the last engine has the last pantograph raised, the others the first 20:11:50 <andythenorth> and if the player flips the engine, should the pantograph flip, or stay in technically correct position? 20:12:46 <Eddi|zuHause> actual driving direction is important 20:13:11 <Eddi|zuHause> also, keep in mind that shunting may actually make it into the game, which will basically destroy all your consist code 20:16:15 <andythenorth> I will deal with that if it occurs 20:16:34 <andythenorth> it will have some 'interesting' side effects 20:17:35 <andythenorth> I could always respond sensibly 20:17:53 <andythenorth> maybe delete all my tt-forum posts, then start a simutrans account, then delete all those 20:18:09 <andythenorth> or I could maybe decide to try and get bananas taken down with a DMCA notice 20:18:52 <andythenorth> it's kind of hard to think how to top previous rage quits :P 20:19:27 <Eddi|zuHause> you mean simuscape? 20:19:42 <Eddi|zuHause> i barely remember more than 3 ragequits 20:21:00 <andythenorth> I did mean simuscape, oops 20:21:28 <andythenorth> ok so 4 spriterows 20:21:38 <andythenorth> all up, all down, A up B down, A down, B up 20:22:00 <andythenorth> if the engine breaks down, should I lower the pantographs? :P 20:23:31 <Eddi|zuHause> mind you, the "only second pantograph" rule applies to modern engines, historical engines of the early generations had both pantographs raised at all times 20:23:41 <andythenorth> yes 20:23:46 <andythenorth> I am going to accomodate that 20:23:52 <Eddi|zuHause> there contact-redundancy had a bigger importance than speed 20:24:29 <Eddi|zuHause> until they invented better pantographs and spring systems and stuff 20:26:26 *** gelignite has quit IRC 20:32:48 <nielsm> also, I am not sure why, but the single electric passenger loco running in denmark atm, in push-pull operation with control car on the other end, when it's turning around at the end of line, the pantographs are both down while the drives moves to the other cab 20:33:14 <nielsm> probably not anything to work in :P 20:33:45 <nielsm> well, maybe... if it's possible to set a trigger on "waiting for load and still not fully loaded" 20:33:56 <nielsm> (or "waiting on timetable) 20:35:06 *** Wormnest has quit IRC 20:43:42 *** sla_ro|master has quit IRC 20:45:13 *** andythenorth has quit IRC 20:46:54 <nielsm> thinking about it, it's probably just because they'll be switching pantograph anyway, so may as well make the procedure to always lower it when leaving a cab, and raise the correct one when entering the other cab 20:53:35 *** andythenorth has joined #openttd 20:55:16 *** nielsm has quit IRC 20:55:30 <Wolf01> 'night 20:55:40 *** Wolf01 has quit IRC 21:01:01 *** andythenorth has left #openttd 21:11:35 *** rocky11384497 has quit IRC 21:14:58 *** Wormnest has joined #openttd 21:32:08 <LordAro> hmm 21:32:12 <LordAro> needs reviews 21:32:47 <LordAro> codewise most of Samu's stuff looks fine, but i don't know enough about most of the code to know if it's the correct solution, or what is desired 21:51:28 <sushibear> You know what? OTTD is a roguelikelike. Like dwarf fortress :) 21:53:53 *** Wacko1976_ has quit IRC 21:56:05 *** Thedarkb-T60 has quit IRC 22:00:56 <peter1138> LordAro, seems half of them even he doesn't know what it does :p 22:01:57 <LordAro> well, at least one 22:05:30 *** sim-al2 has joined #openttd 22:08:03 *** Wormnest has quit IRC 22:23:03 *** Thedarkb-T60 has joined #openttd 22:23:50 <Samu> hi LordAro, I'm looking at it 22:27:22 <Samu> brb creating savegame 22:30:31 *** sim-al2 has quit IRC 22:42:51 <Samu> hmm about the interactive rebase 22:43:00 <Samu> gonna try use the new program 22:44:13 <LordAro> good luck! 22:44:24 <LordAro> i can't help you with it :p 22:44:31 <LordAro> well, probably 22:58:18 *** tokai|noir has joined #openttd 22:58:18 *** ChanServ sets mode: +v tokai|noir 22:59:22 *** FLHerne has quit IRC 22:59:56 *** FLHerne has joined #openttd 23:05:15 *** tokai has quit IRC 23:08:07 <Samu> only have Rebase branch 23:08:19 <Samu> oh well, let's try screw things up 23:08:23 *** HerzogDeXtEr has quit IRC 23:09:20 *** Progman has quit IRC 23:10:55 <Samu> uh that's it, panic mode, I don't understand what's happening in the background 23:13:04 <LordAro> hmm, probably want to go back to git bash then 23:13:18 <LordAro> (can't offer any more help tonight, sleep time) 23:22:34 *** Thedarkb-T60 has quit IRC 23:23:05 *** Thedarkb-T60 has joined #openttd