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Btw can you add new buildings to the game perhaps Better Skyscrapers and more modern buildings." <- lol 14:36:04 <nielsm> is that someone on tt-forums? 14:36:14 <frosch123> no, e-mail to info@ 14:36:23 <nielsm> :D 14:37:08 <nielsm> not much to say other than, yes it is in fact based on a 25 year old game 14:40:49 <Samu> frosch123: can you talk to me? 14:41:36 <Eddi|zuHause> reply: "do you even NewGRF?" 14:41:53 <Arveen> so ... are you going to ? :D 14:42:55 <Eddi|zuHause> "Dear Sir or Ma'am, opposing to all the other '90s-lookalike-games nowadays, this game actually IS from the '90s" 14:42:59 <Samu> frosch123: i made a 2nd commit there https://github.com/OpenTTD/OpenTTD/pull/6932 14:44:00 <Samu> I feel disconnected 14:46:09 <peter1138> s/opposing/compared/ 14:58:21 *** Wormnest has quit IRC 15:15:10 *** WWacko1976-work has quit IRC 15:41:14 *** Fahrradkette has joined #openttd 15:41:26 <Fahrradkette> greetings everybody 15:43:28 *** Gustavo6056 has joined #openttd 15:44:11 <Fahrradkette> I'm playing a FIRS game and like to balance engi/farm supplies among stations. (multiple supplier, multiple consumer) would that be possible using timetables? 15:50:38 *** Gustavo6046 has quit IRC 15:50:38 *** Gustavo6056 is now known as Gustavo6046 16:03:12 *** Thedarkb has joined #openttd 16:11:46 *** Gustavo6056 has joined #openttd 16:13:24 *** Thedarkb has quit IRC 16:15:54 *** Thedarkb has joined #openttd 16:16:43 *** Gustavo6- has joined #openttd 16:17:46 *** Progman has joined #openttd 16:19:11 *** Gustavo6046 has quit IRC 16:19:11 *** Gustavo6- is now known as Gustavo6046 16:21:41 *** Gustavo6056 has quit IRC 16:41:33 *** glx has joined #openttd 16:41:33 *** ChanServ sets mode: +v glx 16:57:25 *** matt21347 has quit IRC 16:57:47 *** matt21347 has joined #openttd 17:01:12 <nielsm> Fahrradkette theoretically it would be, yes 17:02:49 <Fahrradkette> nielsm: does that imply it's not practical? :) 17:03:05 <nielsm> easiest way to timetable it would likely be having a single, shared route that visits all destinations, in an A-B-A-C-A-D-A-E etc. manner, and have a fleet of vehicles running that route 17:03:09 <nielsm> I think 17:04:02 <nielsm> in practice timetables in OTTD tend to break when confronted with varying presence of cargo to load, and other traffic ;) 17:04:47 <nielsm> and keeping a fleet running to a shared timetable synced with approximately equal distance between them often falls apart 17:04:59 <Fahrradkette> so the "auto" button doesn't mean "spread all the trains on that route (i.e. the set of trains having an order shared)? 17:05:01 <nielsm> in particular, make sure you play with breakdowns disabled 17:05:31 <nielsm> the "auto" button just measures the time it takes to complete the route, and sets that as the timetable 17:05:51 <Fahrradkette> oh 17:06:07 <nielsm> then you have to ctrl-click the "set start time" button to distribute the timetable start time for all vehicles sharing the orders 17:07:01 <Fahrradkette> does it matter where the vehicles are at the time i ctrl+click [set start time]? 17:07:27 <nielsm> honestly, I think the timetable UI is bad, confusing, and does nothing to make it easy to operate 17:07:52 <nielsm> not really, no, they'll just hang out on their next stop until it's their timetables departure 17:07:56 <Fahrradkette> does OTTD have some lua/python3 scripting? 17:08:04 <nielsm> no, nothing 17:08:22 <LordAro> well, not directly 17:08:30 <nielsm> there are AI and GameScript, which use Squirrel language 17:08:50 <nielsm> but those are for programming AI opponents and scenarios 17:09:17 <Fahrradkette> so not to be leveraged to extending the usability? 17:09:57 <Fahrradkette> I.e. dynamic eval 17:10:15 <Fahrradkette> and possibly UI primitives exposed 17:10:42 <nielsm> nope 17:10:47 <Fahrradkette> qq 17:14:36 <Fahrradkette> so the most straight forward way to have a "spread vehicles in route"-feature is to write it in c++ and build it myself? 17:15:22 <nielsm> it already exists 17:15:35 <nielsm> it just has annoying UI 17:16:15 <nielsm> and well, it can't make vehicles skip orders for the initial vehicle distribution 17:17:44 <Fahrradkette> but after some ingame years it eventually works reliably (even with network congestion and breakdowns)? 17:18:47 <nielsm> if you build enough slack into the timetable to allow for breakdowns and servicing, it might be able to work somewhat reliably 17:19:47 <nielsm> but honestly, it can be difficult to get a pair of buses running between two stops to not bunch of 17:19:55 <nielsm> bunch up* 17:22:10 <Fahrradkette> my concern is about the FIRS engi/farm supplies, they should arrive within 3 months of each others 17:22:50 <frosch123> my strategy is to have smaller vehicles arrive more often 17:23:07 <frosch123> so, no big load every 3 months, but smaller loads every 10 days or so 17:23:14 <nielsm> yeah my best success has been just having a fleet of small road vehicles running constantly 17:23:34 <frosch123> it's easier to distribute cargo evenly then, no vehicle takes all/has to wait for full load etc 17:24:09 <nielsm> another alternative is to attemp making the pickup trains also carry a single car of supplies back, but it's not entirely reliable 17:24:12 <Fahrradkette> so no full load order? 17:24:33 <frosch123> no, the priority is even and continuous supply 17:24:41 <frosch123> efficiency does not matter 17:25:23 <nielsm> you also shouldn't use full load orders together with timetables 17:25:48 <nielsm> better to timetable enough time for a vehicle to get "sufficient" load in average supply conditions 17:25:58 <frosch123> you can make good use of time tables if you only set loading times, no travel times 17:26:29 <Fahrradkette> ca I set a "wait for 1st of month" condition in time tables? 17:26:35 <frosch123> "load for 3 days" is an intermediate option between "load " and "full load" 17:27:12 <nielsm> afaik a vehicle will always load as much cargo as available, even if it means it has to stay longer than timetabled at a stop 17:27:25 <Fahrradkette> or like wait for next "month % 4 == 0" ? 17:27:48 <nielsm> but you can "load for 10 days" to pick up as much cargo as is supplied during 10 days, if the supply is uneven and too little is waiting at the station 17:27:53 *** andythenorth has joined #openttd 17:27:56 <andythenorth> o/ 17:28:41 <nielsm> no, timetables only allow for "stay at station for X days" and "spend X days on travel and if you arrive earlier, wait at station to make up for it" 17:28:56 <nielsm> you can't make date-based rules 17:30:24 <Fahrradkette> what if the vehicle is delayed? will it just skim off of the next time waiting? 17:30:52 <frosch123> yes 17:30:53 <nielsm> it always stays at least the timetabled number of days at a station, afaik 17:30:58 <nielsm> or, hm? 17:31:23 <nielsm> well, it never leaves a station without being either full or there being no more cargo waiting 17:31:29 <frosch123> if a vehicle is late, it tries to leave as early as possible 17:31:47 <frosch123> it won't abort unloading/loading waiting cargo though 17:31:54 <andythenorth> oof timetables :P 17:31:55 <Fahrradkette> so if I planned the whole trip it could end up date-based? (providing enough leeway at the loading station) 17:32:11 <frosch123> you can make your timetable take 30 days 17:32:21 <nielsm> yes if you set up a timetable that runs exactly 60 days you have effectively a two-month basis 17:32:34 *** matt21347 has quit IRC 17:32:43 <frosch123> or if you switch to ticks, you can also make it about 30.4375 days 17:32:44 <andythenorth> things andythenorth never understood in OpenTTD: timetables, conditional orders 17:33:08 <Fahrradkette> oh there are conditional orders? 17:33:10 <frosch123> to approximate month lengths and leap days 17:33:12 <nielsm> conditional orders I've never used, timetables is something I use sparingly :P 17:33:48 <Fahrradkette> how elaborate is it? (Can I calculate the mandelbrot set)? 17:34:09 <frosch123> no, it's for vehicle sorting 17:34:15 <frosch123> by speed etc 17:34:25 <frosch123> if you run different vehicles with shared orders or so 17:34:40 <frosch123> some people use it for servicing 17:35:08 <Fahrradkette> so it's for signals? 17:35:16 <Fahrradkette> i.e. bypass express lanes 17:35:18 <frosch123> Fahrradkette: it's "conditional orders", not "turing orders" 17:35:43 * Fahrradkette was hoping for a functional language 17:35:52 <frosch123> i think noone really knows what conditional orders are for :p 17:37:37 <frosch123> https://wiki.openttd.org/Conditional_Orders 17:37:48 <frosch123> i think most use-cases are about detours to depots 17:38:10 <andythenorth> nielsm: I use timetables, in lieu of 'load until at least x% full' :) 17:38:18 <LordAro> you can construct logic gates out of signals, i don't know about orders :p 17:38:20 <andythenorth> which is the one conditional order that would actually be useful, instead of all the BS ones 17:38:39 <andythenorth> conditional orders solve a problem no-one has 17:39:15 <nielsm> andythenorth ditto 17:39:38 <andythenorth> I use timetables for 'wait for x days' 17:39:41 <andythenorth> when loading 17:39:45 <nielsm> or "load X units of cargo and absolutely no more" 17:39:57 <nielsm> as well as a corresponding "unload X units" order 17:42:25 <andythenorth> 'unload exactly', 'unload at least' 17:42:42 <andythenorth> X units is problematic with (1) varying vehicle capacity (2) varying cargo unit suffixes 17:42:46 <nielsm> "unload at least", what if it doesn't have that much??? 17:42:47 <andythenorth> but % works 17:42:58 <andythenorth> 'unload up to' 17:43:03 <andythenorth> 'load at least' 17:43:40 <nielsm> that's % of total capacity then, presumably 17:44:08 <andythenorth> probably 17:44:16 <andythenorth> and then is it specified per cargo? 17:44:25 <Fahrradkette> thanks for the tipps guys, conditional orders seem to be helpful in a FIRS game imho 17:44:40 <andythenorth> I think alberth looked at it, and decided it's a rework of orders that's needed, not a new order type 17:44:47 <andythenorth> but then that's almost impossible to do, so eh 17:44:49 <nielsm> per cargo would make a single order line use arbitrary amounts of storage 17:45:02 <nielsm> allowing multiple order lines for a single stop might be better 17:45:49 <andythenorth> it's one of the few features I'd like to see added tbh, outside of newgrf spec stuff 17:45:54 <andythenorth> mostly I'd prefer removing features :P 17:46:21 <nielsm> "stop at station X" "and unload 20% of supplies capacity" "and load 50% of coal capacity" 17:46:38 *** TheMask96 has quit IRC 17:46:42 <andythenorth> so an order can have sub-orders? 17:46:47 <nielsm> pretty much 17:46:53 * andythenorth wonders what cdist will do with it :) 17:47:02 <nielsm> also make refit orders sub-orders 17:47:04 <andythenorth> I guess cdist just sees a fraction of the cargo move 17:47:15 <nielsm> go home and cry 17:47:27 <nielsm> yeah, less capacity available? 17:48:21 <nielsm> if a train carrying up to 200 tons of coal is told to load 50% of capacity, it only has 100 units capacity from that stop 17:50:11 *** Thedarkb-T60 has joined #openttd 17:50:43 *** TheMask96 has joined #openttd 17:51:12 <andythenorth> cdist doesn't measure actual capacity iirc, except in the case of two equivalent routes 17:51:23 <andythenorth> I wrote it down somewhere, fonso explained it to me 17:54:03 * LordAro doesn't understand cdist 17:54:37 <nielsm> it does something and then sometimes cargo stays on the train or decides to not ride 17:55:58 <frosch123> btw. recently i got confused that you cannot scroll the map with wasd 17:56:13 <frosch123> the two other games i play regulary do that 17:56:23 <LordAro> do those keys do anything else? 17:56:38 <frosch123> they map to random hotkeys dependin gon which window is open 17:56:47 <frosch123> i guess "d" is build depot or something 17:56:57 <LordAro> mm, probably not feasible to use wasd to scroll map then 17:57:27 <nielsm> D is destroy iirc 17:58:54 <nielsm> potential feature: multiple keyboard maps included by default, and switchable 17:59:14 <nielsm> "traditional" and "modern", and then maybe space for downloadable ones? 17:59:29 <nielsm> (I forget, does customization already exist?) 18:00:53 <frosch123> nielsm: yes, i remapped D and other stuff 18:01:00 <DorpsGek_II> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] LordAro dismissed a review for pull request #6932: Change: Gradually slow down aircraft speed on breakdown https://git.io/fxsPV 18:01:05 <frosch123> destroy is rarely needed 18:01:22 <frosch123> usually ctrl-remove is good enough 18:06:41 <andythenorth> I use A and D a lot :D 18:19:04 *** Thedarkb has quit IRC 18:19:34 *** Thedarkb-T60 has quit IRC 18:28:40 *** Wolf01 has joined #openttd 18:29:19 <Wolf01> o/ 18:29:23 *** Fahrradkette has quit IRC 18:31:34 <Wolf01> Fine, internet works... now I'm under attack... 18:34:40 <frosch123> by neapolitan hackers? 18:35:20 <Wolf01> Nah, it seem like a portscan from mozilla developers 18:37:33 <Heiki> they’re integrating OpenTTD into Firefox 18:38:07 <Wolf01> https://news.slashdot.org/story/18/10/12/1237249/firefox-removes-core-product-support-for-rssatom-feeds HA! another reason to stay with 58 18:38:37 <Wolf01> I have like 80 rss bookmarks 18:39:53 <Eddi|zuHause> <nielsm> not really, no, they'll just hang out on their next stop until it's their timetables departure <-- i think it's worse than that. they all ignore the timetable until they arrive at the first station in the list, then they clog that up for the later ones that intended to go first 18:42:53 <nielsm> hm you might be right 18:43:08 <nielsm> the timetable distribution feature could be improved a lot in general 18:43:23 <andythenorth> there's a distribution feature? 18:43:26 <andythenorth> I never got it to work 18:43:30 <andythenorth> it's a myth :P 18:43:36 <nielsm> it kinda works but it's so annoying 18:44:51 <LordAro> wasn't there a decent looking patch (queue) a few months back that rewrote it? was it ic111 or whatever their nick was? 18:45:20 <Eddi|zuHause> by "recent" you mean in development since 5 years ago? 18:46:32 <Eddi|zuHause> or did you mean that one? https://www.tt-forums.net/viewtopic.php?p=1207342#p1207342 18:46:33 <LordAro> yes 18:46:45 <LordAro> no, not that onr 18:48:36 <andythenorth> does it just remove timetables? o_O 18:50:52 <Eddi|zuHause> there have been a few timetable rewrites over time, but you probably meant this one? https://www.tt-forums.net/viewtopic.php?p=1058369#p1058369 19:03:49 *** sla_ro|master has quit IRC 19:07:33 *** Thedarkb-T60 has joined #openttd 19:34:43 *** Gustavo6046 has quit IRC 19:41:36 *** Wacko1976 has joined #openttd 20:08:59 *** matt21347 has joined #openttd 20:11:03 *** wodencafe has quit IRC 20:14:52 *** wodencafe has joined #openttd 20:18:57 *** Gustavo6046 has joined #openttd 20:29:26 *** Thedarkb has joined #openttd 20:30:58 *** nielsm has quit IRC 20:39:42 *** wodencafe has quit IRC 20:40:22 *** wodencafe has joined #openttd 20:47:47 *** matt21347 has quit IRC 20:59:51 *** sim-al2 has joined #openttd 21:04:51 *** andythenorth has left #openttd 21:08:30 *** frosch123 has quit IRC 21:33:04 *** wodencafe has quit IRC 21:33:29 *** Progman has quit IRC 21:47:15 *** wodencafe has joined #openttd 22:06:41 *** Wolf01 has quit IRC 22:33:06 *** HerzogDeXtEr has quit IRC 23:42:24 *** Wacko1976 has quit IRC