Log for #openttd on 11th November 2018:
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07:16:31  <Alberth> moin
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08:15:35  <nielsm> morn
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09:01:09  <andythenorth> moin
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09:09:34  <Wolf01> o/
09:28:18  <nielsm> morning andythenorth
09:28:29  <nielsm> playing a bit with horse 2
09:28:36  <nielsm>  <- alignment issue
09:35:33  <nielsm> also looks wrong:
09:40:15  <nielsm> same when it's actually running
09:41:39  <nielsm> braf too:
09:42:55  <nielsm> (big bertha is correct when running eastwards)
09:43:05  <nielsm> (and braf correct westwards)
09:43:38  <nielsm> hmm no braf actually has some overlap when running westwards
09:44:31  <nielsm> depending on sprite sorting randomness:
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09:44:57  <nielsm> (this is with the old sprite sorter, not the optimised one)
09:45:57  <nielsm> hopper cars look like they're derailed running northwest:
09:54:05  <andythenorth> nielsm: I can save you a bit of time, all the steam engines are unfinished :)
09:54:18  <andythenorth> but the wagon alignment bug looks legit
09:54:20  <nielsm> bah
09:54:36  <andythenorth> sorry :)
09:54:53  <andythenorth> sprites are 80% complete
09:55:07  <andythenorth> all cargos, capacities, power, weights etc are believed complete
09:55:14  <andythenorth> run costs are done
09:55:27  <nielsm> purchase costs seem very low
09:55:28  <andythenorth> buy costs are 'done' but I think they have odd scaling
09:55:45  <andythenorth> they scale horribly high for later diesel / electric engines
09:55:54  <andythenorth> I think I need to raise floor and compress ceiling
09:55:59  <nielsm> I'd expect some 20-30% more at least for the early ones
09:56:19  <andythenorth> ok that's useful
09:56:27  <andythenorth> seems you can make the cost back in a couple of journeys
09:56:54  <nielsm> hmm, are metro trains finished?
09:56:59  <andythenorth> it's quite tricky scaling 'game start' costs
09:57:17  <andythenorth> metro train sprites are done
09:57:55  * andythenorth learning how fireworks work
09:57:57  <nielsm> a serpentine+longwater combined train seemed to jump a pixel down when it turned around at a station
09:58:08  <nielsm> ne-sw direction
09:58:33  <andythenorth> my quest for the correct offsets continues :)
09:58:51  <nielsm> yep def. jumps up/down when turning around
09:58:54  <andythenorth> I am going to make some fake vehicles with alignment markers and fix them all, again
10:00:21  * andythenorth wonders if the game could have handled default offsets better for each lenght
10:00:38  <andythenorth> there are established dimensions for vehicles :P
10:04:05  <nielsm> luxury passenger car (120 km/h) looks a bit down:
10:05:12  <nielsm> same in other direction:
10:06:46  <andythenorth> it should be a consistent bug for all 8/8 vehicles
10:07:00  <andythenorth> all the offsets are global constants
10:07:14  <andythenorth> but it is also possible that a sprite is obiwan in the spritesheet
10:08:31  <andythenorth> thanks also
10:08:36  * andythenorth BBL
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10:09:11  <Wolf01> He must have mispelled "tanks" :P
10:09:45  <nielsm> :D
10:29:35  <nielsm> I just want everyone to take a while to appreciate this town's name and location:
10:30:08  <Wolf01> :D
10:39:00  <TrueBrain> hmm .. what is a good name for the main website ... '' feels weird
10:39:04  <TrueBrain> (the repository name)
10:39:47  <nielsm> "website"?
10:39:57  <TrueBrain> guess there could be several websites
10:39:58  <nielsm> "public_web"?
10:40:04  <nielsm> "mainweb"
10:40:10  <TrueBrain> web_www
10:40:18  <TrueBrain> web_main
10:40:29  <TrueBrain> guess you also get stuff like a part that handles the downloads
10:40:47  <TrueBrain> ottd_content is part of that .. so guess that could also just be its name
10:41:12  <TrueBrain> meh, 'website' will do for now
10:41:54  <nielsm> UK Town Set also has an issue with buildings available early on:
10:44:24  <Wolf01> Lol, I'm again with the phone line out of service
10:44:43  <Wolf01> They have serious problems, really
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12:21:54  <andythenorth> o
12:23:54  <TrueBrain> hi andythenorth
12:23:59  <TrueBrain> I renamed the repo to OpenTTD-website
12:24:03  <TrueBrain> I got annoyed by the name
12:24:10  <andythenorth> good
12:24:13  <andythenorth> it was annoying me too
12:25:08  <Xaroth> and I thought I was the only one with OCD.
12:25:34  <andythenorth> did you check everywhere Xaroth?
12:25:42  <andythenorth> are you sure you checked properly?
12:25:44  <andythenorth> check again :P
12:25:55  <Xaroth> Clearly I did not
12:28:17  <andythenorth> TrueBrain: I will try and get some commits for website soon
12:28:35  <andythenorth> I have no spare time to focus on anything last few days :P
12:30:21  <TrueBrain> no worries
12:30:36  <TrueBrain> I am trying to understand kubernetes
12:30:39  <TrueBrain> which is ...... a lot to take in
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12:53:00  <TrueBrain>
12:53:08  <TrueBrain> automatically generated valid TLS certificates \o/
12:54:36  <frosch123> less automatic dns :p
12:54:48  <TrueBrain> frosch123: sorry?
12:55:11  <TrueBrain> btw, does anyone mind if I drop HTTP support? HTTPS only?
12:55:26  <frosch123> i cannot resolve the hostname
12:56:45  <TrueBrain> hostname is propegated correctly throughout the world ... I have no clue why it wouldnt for you?
12:56:47  <frosch123> eddi is the only one using weird browsers, and he's not here
12:57:23  <frosch123> everyone else should be fine with http
12:57:25  <frosch123> +s
12:57:39  <TrueBrain> the world is deprecating http, so .. I guess we should too
12:57:45  <TrueBrain> does leave an issue in the OpenTTD client :P
12:57:49  <TrueBrain> but we will tackle that when-ever :)
12:59:02  <TrueBrain> frosch123: can you use 'dig' or something to see why your DNS is failing on you?
13:02:42  <frosch123> <- can you read that?
13:03:29  <TrueBrain> can you do a dig on ?
13:03:53  <frosch123> it works now
13:04:05  <frosch123> took some time somewhere
13:04:10  <TrueBrain> ah, the slave NS isnt replicated correctly
13:04:12  <TrueBrain> that is bad
13:08:16  <TrueBrain> hmm, seems that has been broken for a few months; tnx for noticing frosch123 :D
13:11:06  <TrueBrain> secondary DNS changed the IP with which they initiate a transfer ... and didnt tell me about it :P
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13:39:10  <TrueBrain> I like DigitalOcean more and more, the more I use it
13:39:22  <TrueBrain> their simplicity in interface/services is a welcome surprise
13:42:18  <andythenorth> we can afford it, yes?
13:42:31  <TrueBrain> that does appear to be the case
13:42:36  <TrueBrain> slowly building up to see where we end up
13:43:04  <andythenorth> money never seems to be the issue
13:43:14  <andythenorth> but I think we could raise more donations than we do (I assume)
13:43:31  <TrueBrain> we havent actively run for donations in years :P
13:43:42  <TrueBrain> but still people really enjoy donating, which is a good thing
13:43:46  <TrueBrain> people always surprise me :)
13:45:03  <TrueBrain> some things I do not understand .. you can get a Space, which is, from my understanding, a CDN
13:45:11  <TrueBrain> costs 5 dollar for 1TB bandwidth
13:45:17  <SpComb> just make the suggestions forum pay-to-post
13:45:21  <TrueBrain> it costs 0.01 dollar per GB overusage
13:45:37  <TrueBrain> you can buy multiple spaces, and the bandwidth is shared
13:45:51  <TrueBrain> so ... buying 2 spaces gives me 2 TB for 10 dollar .. while it costs 10 dollar for 1 TB if you pay the overusage
13:45:53  <TrueBrain> weird
13:46:02  <TrueBrain> SpComb: lolz :)
13:46:53  <frosch123> TrueBrain: why weird?
13:46:59  <frosch123> it would be weird the other way around
13:47:17  <TrueBrain> what is weird about it, that it appears that if you buy 2 Spaces, you get 2TB in total
13:47:19  <TrueBrain> not per Space
13:47:55  <frosch123> so bandwidth is cheaper when you buy it in advance (not knowing whether you will need it all), compared to buying it when needed
13:48:05  <andythenorth> futures vs spot
13:48:16  <TrueBrain> okay, but why can I not buy it upfront in a single space
13:48:23  <TrueBrain> why do I need to buy an unused second?
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13:52:34  <SpComb> I'm trying to modernize our Jenkins at work, but the multibranch pipelines still leave a lot to be desired
13:52:56  <TrueBrain> Jenkins is getting really behind
13:52:59  <TrueBrain> it is really annoying
13:53:48  <frosch123> "behind" compared to what? to hudson, or what is the new kid on the block?
13:53:59  <SpComb> something like GitHub checks support for Jenkins doesn't sound like it's going to ever happen, considering how problematic the maintenance of even existing GitHub-related Jenkins plugins is
13:54:30  <TrueBrain> hudson is the old kid on the block frosch123 ;)
13:54:48  <TrueBrain> I was horrified by the GitHub plugins :P I ran away quickly
13:54:57  <SpComb> well, they do work
13:55:03  <TrueBrain> frosch123: cloud solutions (so if you dont want to be onpremise) are so much better, and there are tons of them
13:55:17  <TrueBrain> and slowly you see onpremise solutions poping up
13:55:31  <frosch123> yes, i live in a world where everyone switched from hudson to jenkins. but in my world people also use svn :)
13:55:39  <TrueBrain> Jenkins did publish 2 months ago or something that they are going to change gears, to allow new development .. but I wonder if they can catch up tbh
13:55:55  <TrueBrain> if you just look at what GitHub Actions is going to be
13:56:01  <TrueBrain> you won't need a Jenkins anymore
13:56:08  <TrueBrain> GitLab CI, similar story
13:56:15  <TrueBrain> (GitLab CI is REALLY awesome btw)
13:56:26  <TrueBrain> and Jenkins Pipelines are kinda the worst thing ever
13:56:35  <TrueBrain> it already supports 2 languages, and a third is in the making
13:56:53  <SpComb> first I hear of GitHub actions
13:57:06  <TrueBrain> I am very annoyed it is not released yet :P
13:57:40  <frosch123> never pre-order video games :p
14:00:17  <SpComb> my current gripe with jenkins multibranch pipelines: it never cleans up the workspaces
14:16:36  <TrueBrain> okay .. so depoying to staging works .. now I just need to add the glue that does this on GitHub commit :D
15:38:30  <TrueBrain> one downside of wanting to run a 'staging', that it doubles your operation costs, give or take :P
15:38:57  <TrueBrain> guess 'staging' will be more of a 'dev' :)
15:54:18  <LordAro> TrueBrain: anything exciting happening?
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15:56:28  <andythenorth> well
15:58:05  <TrueBrain> LordAro: read up, I would say :P Depends on your definition on "exciting"
15:58:12  <TrueBrain> still waiting for your feedback on the hackmd url btw :P :P
16:01:58  <LordAro> oh yes, i still have that tab open
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16:18:22  <peter1138> How can a utility to write disk images to a memory card run to 62MB?
16:19:05  <LordAro> is it written in JS?
16:21:43  <peter1138> Likely.
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17:36:11  <andythenorth> well
17:39:50  <andythenorth> I have drawn no pixels and written no code
17:43:37  <Xaroth> peter1138: 62MB sounds small if it's a JS lib.
17:44:04  <andythenorth> when did JS get filesystem IO? :P
17:44:06  * andythenorth missed a memo
17:44:20  <Xaroth> node?
17:44:23  <andythenorth> I assume node or something
17:44:38  <Xaroth> but js' packaging system is notoriously bloat
17:44:55  <andythenorth> unlike anyone else's :)
17:45:17  <Xaroth> there's bloat and there's js :P
17:47:26  <LordAro> it's interesting how all languages with "good" package systems tend towards bloat
17:47:34  <LordAro> rust is one i noticed recently
17:47:53  <TrueBrain> those with bad package systems too, no worries :D
17:48:22  <LordAro> people are less likely to depending on unnecessary libraries if it's difficult to add a dependency :p
17:48:43  <Xaroth> it also depends on the quality of your stdlib
17:48:44  <LordAro> s/depending/depend/
17:48:48  <LordAro> also that
17:49:05  <TrueBrain> does it? really?
17:49:24  <TrueBrain> isn't the bloat propotional to the popularity?
17:49:59  <LordAro> i don't see issues with C++ & Java
17:50:04  <TrueBrain> and isn't it simply a given? The more people work on shit, the more shit you get?
17:50:06  <LordAro> not that i have much experience with the latter
17:50:09  <TrueBrain> you don't with Java? Lolz :D
17:50:16  <TrueBrain> try .. the Spring framework
17:50:18  <TrueBrain> enjoy your bloat :D
17:50:29  <Xaroth> well
17:50:35  <Xaroth> Java is pretty much bloat by its core
17:50:37  <LordAro> individual libraries are bloated, sure
17:50:44  <Xaroth> so relatively there's not much bloat in java :P
17:50:44  <TrueBrain> the dep-tree too, no worries :)
17:50:45  <LordAro> i'm referring to the number of dependencies
17:50:49  <LordAro> fair
17:50:59  <TrueBrain> so I am scared to shit because of vspkg :)
17:51:01  <TrueBrain> vcpkg?
17:51:04  <TrueBrain> vcpkg!
17:51:06  <TrueBrain> I am very happy with it :)
17:51:12  <TrueBrain> but ..... here comes the dep-hell :D
17:52:47  <Xaroth> here's one for js
17:52:48  <Xaroth>
17:52:57  <Xaroth> simple operation, left-padding stuff
17:53:04  <Xaroth> ... it has a dependency, to repeat a string.
17:53:09  <LordAro> that's not leftpad...
17:57:30  <TrueBrain>
17:57:36  <TrueBrain> that ... works :o
17:57:59  <Xaroth> nice
17:58:15  <TrueBrain> that means I now only have to glue GitHub to that, somehow
18:05:19  <LordAro> shiny
18:18:29  <planetmaker> o/
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19:01:52  <TrueBrain> so I can make a Docker which manages the k8s from a pod inside the k8s .. well, that will be fun to do :D
19:29:40  <andythenorth> seems to have a chicken-egg problem
19:32:11  <TrueBrain> yup :) Means you have to do something manually once :)
19:32:13  <TrueBrain> which is good
19:43:54  <TrueBrain> okay, k8s is cool :D
19:45:27  <andythenorth> good
19:45:56  <andythenorth> if I put kids to bed, maybe I can get jekyll to build an ottd page with static asset paths fixed
19:57:13  <andythenorth> hmm got a jekyll layout
19:57:20  <andythenorth> winning
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20:06:50  <andythenorth> TrueBrain: are we still supporting rss feeds?
20:08:17  <andythenorth> and shall I convert the css to SASS
20:08:18  <andythenorth> nope :P
20:08:20  <andythenorth> I shan't
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20:12:38  <andythenorth> TrueBrain: can I commit into master of website repo?
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20:14:30  <nielsm> hell-o again
20:15:17  <andythenorth> hi nielsm :)
20:52:00  <andythenorth> oof
20:52:05  <andythenorth> the website is getting redesigned :P
20:54:07  <LordAro> about time :p
20:56:10  <andythenorth> only to remove stupidity
20:56:23  <andythenorth> what was sensible in 2004 is stupid in 2018 :)
20:56:36  <andythenorth> we have box shadow for starters :P
21:00:45  <LordAro> aye, i've noticed that before
21:02:40  <FLHerne> What do you have againt box-shadow?
21:04:03  <FLHerne> *s
21:04:48  <LordAro> precisely the opposite
21:05:32  <FLHerne> Ah
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21:05:57  <FLHerne> The box-shadow-like effect is implemented using some form of archaic magic?
21:06:34  <LordAro> not sure i'd describe it as magic...
21:07:37  <nielsm> pictures? :D
21:08:15  <LordAro> go look for yourself :p
21:08:26  <LordAro> (yes)
21:09:07  <nielsm> well css background images, at least not tables ;)
21:11:48  <andythenorth> it's fine for the time
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21:16:26  <andythenorth> dunno how to show progress
21:16:46  <andythenorth>
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21:17:06  <andythenorth> needs a jekyll install
21:19:11  <Xaroth> <blink> was at some point also a thing.
21:21:24  <andythenorth> anyone built the website yet then? o_O
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21:29:21  <andythenorth> did we ever find out who our translation manager is?
21:29:24  <andythenorth> and are they are 'he'
21:29:25  <andythenorth> ?
21:34:12  <LordAro> andythenorth: i have built it!
21:34:19  <LordAro> eventually
21:34:25  <LordAro> i'm pretty sure i'm doing ruby wrong
21:34:31  <LordAro> but eh
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21:35:30  <andythenorth> I kep instructions locally
21:35:40  <andythenorth> it wasn't as simple as it should be :P
21:35:59  <LordAro> some insane incantation of gem install & bundle install & bundle exec
21:36:47  <LordAro> oh, and i had to alter _config.yml to exclude my vendor dir
21:36:48  <andythenorth> the bundle doesn't link
21:37:23  <andythenorth> for those playing at home, this reproducibly worked for me
21:37:24  <andythenorth>
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21:40:48  <andythenorth> ok I've converted the majority of pages to Jekyll template
21:40:57  <LordAro> works 5 me
21:40:58  <andythenorth> TrueBrain is ghosting me, so I can't tell him
21:41:07  <LordAro> probably sleeping :p
21:41:24  <andythenorth> TrueBrain never sleeps
21:42:15  <andythenorth> anyway, everything is pushed
21:42:25  <andythenorth> it makes some assumptions about urls and stuff that I'd like to improve
21:42:28  <andythenorth> but eh, websites
21:42:54  <LordAro> add a `--path vendor` to bundle install
21:44:21  <andythenorth> I need to do screenshots next
21:44:33  <andythenorth> jekyll can handle them, but they're pretty meh imho
21:44:46  <LordAro> the nav bar isn't highlighting the current page
21:44:55  <andythenorth> ah
21:44:59  <andythenorth> that will need vars inserted
21:45:06  <andythenorth> or javascript that detects current url :P
21:45:12  <andythenorth> good spot though
21:45:14  <LordAro> the latter, probably :p
21:45:15  <LordAro> er
21:45:16  <LordAro> former
21:45:18  <LordAro> **
21:45:32  <andythenorth> front matter vars
21:45:41  <andythenorth>
21:46:05  <andythenorth> or maybe the templating language can detect current filename, but that's flakey
21:46:17  <LordAro> current title?
21:46:23  <LordAro> i feel like it should be able to
21:47:35  <andythenorth> title seems a better bet than filename
21:47:36  <andythenorth> yes
21:47:46  <andythenorth> I can't be arsed to learn the logic syntax tonight :)
21:47:51  <andythenorth> is nearly bedtime
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22:07:45  <Wolf01> 'night
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