Log for #openttd on 14th November 2018:
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15:26:19  <planetmaker> quiet days are quiet :)
15:26:35  <nielsm> very
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15:27:58  <Alberth> hellos
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15:39:31  <LordAro> LOUD NOISES
15:42:42  <Alberth> please be careful
15:43:16  <peter1138> Hi.
15:43:50  <LordAro> ᴸᴼᵁᴰ ᴺᴼᴵˢᴱˢ
15:44:06  <LordAro> also o/
15:44:39  <Alberth> something may have fallen behind that door you just closed :)
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15:54:39  <peter1138> MTB night tonight.
15:55:08  <peter1138> Should I faff about putting a new tyre + sealant on, or leave that til after the ride...
15:56:24  <peter1138> Hmm, should give it a go, won't take too long to switch back to tube if needed.
15:58:59  <peter1138> 900 gram tyre, imagine that on a road bike :p
16:08:11  <LordAro> hehe
16:09:24  <peter1138> Mind you, Marathon Plus are pretty heavy for road at 750g for 28c.
16:10:05  <peter1138> 's what I have on my commuter bike.
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16:55:50  <nielsm> luaduck can you fix your client?
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16:57:51  <luaduck> nielsm: my bad
16:57:56  <luaduck> znc got very sad with me
16:58:10  <luaduck> should stfu now
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17:59:19  <nielsm> hm, do that stream thing again today?
18:08:17  <Xaroth> I'd join if there were a client
18:12:28  <nielsm> win64 good?
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18:17:46  <andythenorth> o/
18:18:01  <nielsm> evening
18:20:01  <nielsm> Xaroth: I may try setting up port forwarding, in that case here's the client I'm using:
18:29:11  <andythenorth> nielsm: still streaming? o_O
18:29:31  <nielsm> continuing in a bit yes
18:34:56  <nielsm>
18:37:56  <andythenorth> I should fix some sprites
18:37:58  <andythenorth> maybe I will later
18:40:24  <nielsm> tonight the music is performed by a vintage roland sound canvas sc-55st !!
18:40:41  <nielsm> recorded live via line-in
18:47:53  <peter1138> Well, definitely don't have enough time to change that tyre...
18:55:08  <DorpsGek_II> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] ThePNDA commented on issue #6967: BaNaNaS: Unhandled exception when uploading new
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19:08:01  <nielsm> the original graphics statue looks like a spider...
19:29:31  <andythenorth> oof
19:29:42  <andythenorth> when I see a tool and don't understand why
19:29:53  <nielsm> ?
19:30:01  <andythenorth> can anyone explain what exactly this is, and what engineering problem it solves?
19:30:02  <andythenorth>
19:30:13  <andythenorth> apparently it's huge and everyone important is using it
19:30:27  <andythenorth> speaking as someone who sells a niche SaaS product, I don't understand this one :P
19:30:27  <nielsm> experimenting with webservice calls
19:30:48  <nielsm> and debugging your own things
19:30:50  <nielsm> presumably
19:30:58  <nielsm> instead of writing curl commandlines
19:31:20  <andythenorth> I can't tell if it's an IDE, or a programming language
19:31:26  <LordAro> CaaS
19:31:29  <LordAro> curl as a service
19:31:48  <andythenorth> :P
19:32:19  <LordAro> i can almost guarantee that's what it's actually doing
19:32:21  <andythenorth> smells of magic bullet to me
19:32:54  <andythenorth>
19:33:26  <LordAro> i like their "native apps"
19:33:43  <LordAro> the download is a suspicious 65MB
19:34:38  <nielsm> it's an OS with bundled web request feature
19:35:26  <andythenorth> it was used for a support issue by a SaaS company we use
19:35:27  <DorpsGek_II> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] George-VB commented on issue #6907: Cargo capacity should be recalculated on TRIGGER_VEHICLE_NEW_LOAD
19:35:29  <andythenorth> which makes total sense
19:35:48  <LordAro> naturally
19:35:50  <andythenorth> it hit an API endpoint with a test
19:36:00  <andythenorth> I can see the value there
19:36:40  <andythenorth> oh
19:36:50  <andythenorth> what's today's reason that George can't have a pony?
19:37:11  <andythenorth> and what's that odd mixed train nielsm? :D
19:37:18  <nielsm> goods
19:37:44  <andythenorth> your train layouts are about the same as mine, and nothing like coop :)
19:38:56  <nielsm> I try to mix and match what I see in real world railroads and what makes sense from a game perspective
19:39:25  <nielsm> neither minmaxing nor realismfreak
19:40:14  <nielsm> also I should try to set up a timetable for this passenger line...
19:41:16  * andythenorth doesn't understand timetables
19:41:27  <andythenorth> they have been explained to me many times
19:41:34  <andythenorth> but due to some persistent PEBKAC
19:41:40  <andythenorth> they don't work in my games
19:42:02  <andythenorth> I don't see the point in knowing how early or late a vehicle is, it does nothing for my gameplay fun :P
19:42:21  <nielsm> I use them when it can help separate vehicles out
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19:42:36  <nielsm> or abuse them to wait a bit but not for full load
19:42:40  <LordAro> has only served to group things together for me
19:42:55  <andythenorth> I use 'wait for x' at station
19:42:57  * nielsm broadcasts some bird
19:43:00  <andythenorth> because there's no partial load
19:43:11  <andythenorth> oh yes bird
19:43:12  <andythenorth> that's nice
19:43:17  <LordAro> bird
19:43:19  <andythenorth> is it soothing to live with?
19:43:38  <nielsm> sometimes they don't scream
19:43:43  <andythenorth> I fail at timetable understanding, because physics
19:43:47  <andythenorth> speed = distance / time
19:44:05  <andythenorth> timetables don't make things closer or further away
19:44:08  <andythenorth> they can't change game time
19:44:16  <andythenorth> so they do actually manipulate vehicle speed?
19:44:21  <andythenorth> hax
19:44:37  <nielsm> you can actually set a speed limit in timetables yes
19:44:42  <nielsm> though I never use that
19:44:52  <andythenorth> in my fork they will be deleted
19:44:58  <nielsm> it might make sense if you have a mainline section where some slower trains run
19:45:01  <andythenorth> and replace with a 'wait until condition' met order
19:45:24  <andythenorth> I will also delete all other conditional orders in my fork
19:45:25  <andythenorth> simpler UI
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19:46:18  <nielsm> conditional orders also break cargodist
19:47:08  <andythenorth> my fork never happens :P
19:47:10  <andythenorth> is the problem
19:47:25  <andythenorth> is a fork for life, or just for christmas? :P
19:56:53  <nielsm> see, now I've set up the timetable the trains aren't bunching all together
19:57:08  <nielsm> and thus less risk of the tailing ones running empty
19:57:39  <nielsm> so the stations get more reliable service
19:58:05  * andythenorth looks
19:58:12  <andythenorth> leave timetable window open :)
19:58:30  <nielsm> and travel times are shorter on average, since they aren't waiting on signals for single track sections etc
19:58:40  <andythenorth> I never understand the 'travel for n days' thing
19:58:49  <andythenorth> it's been explained to me at least twice before
19:59:12  <andythenorth> 'travel for 9 days'
19:59:15  <nielsm> if travel takes less than the specified, vehicle becomes early, and will stay for longer at the next timetabled stop
19:59:18  <andythenorth> what happens if it takes 10, or 8?
19:59:32  <nielsm> if travel takes longer vehicle becomes late and will try to make stops shorter
20:00:00  <andythenorth> ok
20:00:03  <nielsm> but a stop never takes less time than required to load/unload everything possible
20:00:13  <andythenorth> I have a really silly irrational reaction to certain kinds of lies in UI
20:00:25  <andythenorth> and that one's a lie that makes me twitch :)
20:00:27  <nielsm> so if there are 200 passengers waiting on the station and the train can pick them all up, it will, even if it means become more late
20:01:02  <nielsm> the trick to making timetables work is building some slack in to the travel and wait times
20:02:07  <andythenorth> if I tell a computer to 'travel for 9 days' I expect it to do exactly that :)
20:02:13  <andythenorth> unless it's a fuzzy command
20:02:27  <andythenorth> this is a rabbit hole :)
20:02:43  <nielsm> "reserve 9 days for travel between these stops"
20:02:46  <nielsm> is the intended meaning
20:03:09  <nielsm> or, "planned arrival for next stop is 9 days after planned departure for previous"
20:03:28  <LordAro> that doesn't fit in the window :p
20:03:33  <nielsm> exactly
20:04:17  * andythenorth wonders what happens if we just added a 'space vehicles out' button :P
20:04:28  <andythenorth> and let the computer do what computers are good at :P
20:04:33  <nielsm> the timetables used by DSB in denmark seem to be planned for 140 km/h average speed, for stock capable of 180 km/h...
20:04:48  <LordAro> andythenorth: i believe that's been attempted several times
20:05:00  <nielsm> ctrl-click "start date" works okay
20:05:04  <LordAro> does ic111's timetable stuff do that?
20:05:12  <nielsm> except for the having to fill in start date yourself part which is annoying
20:05:26  <andythenorth> it doesn't help that I only tried timetables for ships
20:05:30  <andythenorth> where they don't work :P
20:05:55  <zuzak> dumb question, but what's the benefit of using timetables?
20:05:56  <andythenorth> min. separation between vehicle departures would be interesting
20:06:08  <nielsm> zuzak, spacing vehicles out
20:06:12  <LordAro> zuzak: that is where this debate started :p
20:06:20  <andythenorth> zuzak: imho, none because I can't get them to work, but I am the minority
20:06:49  <andythenorth> it would be nice to not have 10 overlapping pax ferries on a route :P
20:07:04  <nielsm> watch my stream and I can show and tell about where I'm using them :P
20:08:24  <nielsm> buses are the best place to try timetables out imo
20:08:50  <nielsm> they bunch of way too easily
20:09:10  <nielsm> and with only a few stops it takes very little time to set up a timetable
20:10:20  <nielsm> the three buses I have on screen right now, without timetable they'd all be bunched up, two of them running mostly empty
20:10:46  <nielsm> so the regular service on all stops helps keep station ratings high
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21:53:26  <andythenorth> bye
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