Log for #openttd on 6th December 2018:
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08:46:26  <orudge> <-- official version of OpenTTD in the Windows Store (although it's x64 only at present, not x86 or ARM as it says)
09:01:06  <SpComb> good thing that it has (official) in the title to differentiate it from all the non-official ones
09:02:32  <SpComb> is still selling for 
09:05:21  <SpComb>
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09:16:38  <orudge> SpComb: yes, unfortunately there's nothing we can do about that it seems
09:16:52  <orudge> I have e-mailed the 'author' of that but no response
09:24:54  <LordAro> what was the reason microsoft wouldn't remove it?
09:25:56  <orudge> "Without an official government trademark registration, we can't adequately assess your trademark rights. "
09:26:02  <orudge> "We recommend you contact trademark counsel for more information or reach out to the content creator directly."
09:26:21  <orudge> Since OpenTTD is GPL, they can sell it
09:28:21  <LordAro> yeah...
09:28:27  <LordAro> how very boring
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09:51:04  <planetmaker> what burocratic effort is it to setup an OpenTTD foundation?
09:51:41  <planetmaker> and what cost is a trademark registration?
09:52:43  <planetmaker> and Microsoft of course is a ... whimp. Of course they could. It's their store and they can do and cease doing whatever they want. They just don't want
09:52:57  <orudge> Probably a reasonable effort (depends where you do it, I suppose), and in the hundreds of pounds/euros range I think
09:53:10  <planetmaker> not worth it, I guess
10:54:53  * Sacro trademarks orudge 
10:58:49  * orudge copyrights Sacro
11:20:01  <Sacro> :o
11:20:18  <Sacro> But when I have kids, they'll be infringing copyright
11:21:59  <orudge> Could be an authorised reproduction
11:22:04  <orudge> You'll need to check the licence agreement
11:23:49  <peter1138> orudge, cool that it is on there now :D
11:24:27  <peter1138> Searching for "OpenTTD" doesn't return it, though :(
11:24:40  <orudge> No
11:25:00  <orudge> I initially published it as 'secret' so I could make sure it actually works!
11:25:04  <orudge>
11:25:11  <orudge> I've submitted an update now which should make it public
11:25:14  <peter1138> Ah, ok.
11:25:18  <orudge> and also adds back in an x86 version if anybody still uses that
11:25:43  <peter1138> integrated mouse
11:25:44  <peter1138> Hmm
11:26:18  <peter1138> Ooh I have a Windows 10 laptop here...
11:27:01  <SpComb> I could try playing it instead of Transport Fever - last beta patch game crashed when autosaving and I lost 10min of work, stopped playing that game
11:27:52  <orudge> I am still slowly attempting to work on a UWP version (which would allow deployment on ARM, Xbox, tablets, etc, although whether it would play nicely there is another matter!) - looking at sticking in DirectWrite for font stuff instead of freetype (based on michi_cc's Win32-based PR), and Direct2D instead of GDI, because there is no GDI.
11:30:01  <peter1138> Mmm, replacing GDI with DirectSomething is probably a good idea anyway.
11:30:04  <peter1138> GDI is well obsolete :p
11:30:27  <orudge> It's somewhat of a learning project for me, but time is as ever the challenge
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18:17:15  <Wolf01> o/
18:17:46  <Wolf01> So, lifechat 3000 headphones work flawlessly with my phone, good to know
18:58:08  <michi_cc> orudge: You do know about ?
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19:55:15  <andythenorth> o/
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20:03:09  <PNDA> Hi, is this a good place to talk about NML?
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20:06:16  <andythenorth> it's the best
20:06:23  <andythenorth> well, maybe
20:06:54  <PNDA> Ok, because I am trying to maybe integrate Stations into NML. I have got a few problems with that. Currently with defining the name of a station
20:07:11  <andythenorth> stations o_O
20:07:15  <andythenorth> interesting move :)
20:07:18  <PNDA> O_o
20:07:47  <PNDA> well, for one string in a item property, it outputs a sprite 6 and sprite 7, and sprite 6 is not understandable
20:08:15  <PNDA> it gives it 2 FF and a \wx0000 and a \wxC500
20:08:27  <andythenorth> have you got a fork?
20:08:36  <andythenorth> NML moved to github recently
20:08:54  <PNDA> Yes, I do
20:09:17  <andythenorth> ok so answers here can be slow :)
20:09:28  <andythenorth> stations were left out of nml because they're a PITA
20:09:34  <andythenorth> but it is a wanted feature
20:10:39  <PNDA> It is very wanted, I have tried using m4NFO, and its really strange to use. NFO is just nothing for me with these Bytes
20:11:45  <nielsm> if what you have is a PITA, consider making kebab
20:11:48  <nielsm> or maybe falafel
20:11:54  <nielsm> I'm not sure where I'm going with this
20:13:23  <andythenorth> :P
20:13:38  <andythenorth> PNDA you probably need frosch or pl*netmaker
20:13:47  <andythenorth> not many other people can comment on nml internals currently
20:13:55  <andythenorth> I can do basic maintenance, but not extend stations :P
20:14:08  <PNDA> Have you ever used NFO?
20:14:13  <andythenorth> yes
20:14:15  <andythenorth> a lot
20:14:50  <PNDA> 6 * 10	 00 04 \b1 01 FF \wx0000 FF \wxC500
20:14:50  <PNDA> 7 * 16	 04 04 FF 01 \wxC500 "Station_1" 00
20:15:01  <PNDA> That is the Station Code that NML has managed to output
20:15:18  <PNDA> I just wanted to add this
20:17:34  <frosch123> that action 0 makes no sense
20:18:13  <PNDA> Yeah, sprite 6 is currently the only thing really not working. It gives a Fatal Error
20:19:34  <frosch123> what is your actual question?
20:19:49  <PNDA> If anyone here has a Idea why it is causing that issue
20:19:50  <frosch123> the action 4 defines the name for station id 0
20:19:55  <frosch123> what is the action 0 supposed to do?
20:20:22  <frosch123> what is your input nml?
20:20:46  <PNDA> this would be it:
20:21:22  <frosch123> ok, in that case it should not create a aciton 0 at all
20:21:42  <nielsm> if I were to implement NML support for stations I would probably begin with making a prototype that can only produce a limited subset of possible station definitions, but does output valid NFO/GRF
20:21:57  <PNDA> Which is literally what I am trying to do
20:22:12  <nielsm> your action 0 is missiogn prop 8 first of all
20:22:30  <frosch123> let's see how vehicles do it
20:22:45  <PNDA> yes, it should look something like this: 04 04 FF 01 01 C5 "Empty Platform" 00 (As of m4nfo)
20:23:40  <frosch123> that's the action 4
20:23:51  <frosch123> that one is generated correctly by your nml
20:24:05  <PNDA> Well I took the 'name' property from vehicles at first, but when using the same one as with Houses, it works fine, and the action 4 does not give any errors
20:24:14  <PNDA> And yes, I just realised that was the wrong nfo I sent
20:24:46  <PNDA> This is a action0 as of m4nfo: 9 * 14	 00 04 03 01 01 08 "ASDP" 0B  02 11 00
20:25:04  <frosch123> 'name'               : {'num': -1, 'string': None}, <- that's from the nml vehicle code
20:25:54  <frosch123> <- you assigned it property 0xFF
20:25:54  <PNDA> yes, which did not work for 0x04, I edited the one from houses which at the end looks like this: {'size': 2, 'num': 0xFF, 'string': 0xC5}
20:26:11  <frosch123> it needs to be "-1" and no size to not output an action0
20:27:10  <PNDA> Well I can't change it to "-1", that would give out a Internal error
20:27:10  <frosch123> 'station_name': { 'num':-1, 'string': ???},
20:27:17  <frosch123> i am not yet sure how 'string' is used
20:27:38  <frosch123> PNDA: but "-1" is correct :p
20:27:52  <frosch123> everything else causes your problem with the sprite 6
20:27:59  <PNDA> I know, I removed num not size, stupid one
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20:29:30  <frosch123> s/know/figured it out/ ?
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20:35:12  <PNDA> I am sorry for leaving, I have to go now. Goodbye
20:35:25  <orudge> michi_cc: I had forgotten about that, actually. That may work.
20:36:14  <michi_cc> No idea if OpenGL is acceptable for UWP, but it could at least be used as a basis for using DirectX instead.
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20:36:34  <orudge> Hm, seems there is no OpenGL support in UWP
20:36:45  <orudge> but may be of interest anyway
20:37:28  <michi_cc> BTW, anybody wants to write a Linux or OSX video driver for it?
20:38:13  <andythenorth> peter1138 does
20:38:49  <nielsm> I think I've suggested it before, but what about a replacement blitter too that produces a sprite (and other commands) list instead and has the gpu render each sprite as a textured quad
20:39:13  <nielsm> and possibly take advantage of Z buffer as replacement for sprite sorting
20:40:14  <michi_cc> That would be my next step, but replicating everything the current blitters do isn't that simple (i.e. stuff like remapping screen rects).
20:43:46  <nielsm> remapping... as in moved a window since previous frame?
20:43:59  <michi_cc> No, as in applying a colour remap to the screen.
20:44:22  <nielsm> pallette animation?
20:44:41  <nielsm> or recoloring 32 bpp sprites?
20:44:43  <michi_cc> no, mostly the grey newspaper.
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20:44:57  <michi_cc> Palette animation is already in the branch.
20:44:58  <nielsm> hm
20:46:08  <nielsm> newspaper is done as render viewport, then postprocess it to greyscale?
20:46:23  <michi_cc> Yeah.
20:46:54  <nielsm> right, so you'd have to change it to render viewport (with greyscale map) or similar
20:47:16  <frosch123> it's also used for "glass" effects in the regular viewport
20:48:19  <frosch123> anyway, don't 32bpp blitters replace all of that with alpha?
20:48:20  <michi_cc> The main problem with a sprite "blitter" is that everything assumes a persistent screen (including possibly NewGRFs), which is exactly what 3D graphics don't do.
20:49:08  <michi_cc> Conceptually, replicating this with render-to-texture and several framebuffers is possible, it just has to be fast enough to be worthwhile.
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21:29:27  <andythenorth> oof supplies remains frustrating with cdist
21:29:49  <andythenorth> always large quantiities undelivered
21:30:09  <andythenorth> and I can't persuade cdist to route it across many destinations
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