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00:00:25 <glx> yeah a conflict with mingw32 api 00:00:47 <glx> In file included from D:/developpement/GitHub/OpenTTD/src/os/windows/win32.cpp:23: 00:00:47 <glx> D:/developpement/GitHub/OpenTTD/src/fios.h:197:20: error: 'SORT_ASCENDING' conflicts with a previous declaration 00:00:47 <glx> SORT_ASCENDING = 0, 00:00:47 <glx> ^ 00:00:47 <glx> In file included from H:/msys64/mingw64/x86_64-w64-mingw32/include/shlobj.h:124, 00:00:49 <glx> from D:/developpement/GitHub/OpenTTD/src/os/windows/win32.cpp:20: 00:00:49 <glx> H:/msys64/mingw64/x86_64-w64-mingw32/include/shobjidl.h:6411:5: note: previous declaration 'tagSORTDIRECTION SORT_ASCENDING' 00:00:51 <glx> SORT_ASCENDING = 1 00:00:51 <glx> ^~~~~~~~~~~~~~ 00:01:09 <glx> and the same with SORT_DESCENDING 00:01:47 <LordAro> heh 00:02:18 <LordAro> OTTD_SORT_ASCENDING ? 00:19:13 *** gnu_jj has joined #openttd 00:21:48 *** gnu_jj_ has joined #openttd 00:22:22 *** nielsm has quit IRC 00:25:01 *** gnu_jj_ has quit IRC 00:27:42 *** gnu_jj_ has joined #openttd 00:29:03 *** gnu_jj has quit IRC 01:45:35 <DorpsGek_II> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] glx22 opened pull request #6987: Fix: [Win32] WIN32 may not be defined, always prefer the compiler pre… https://git.io/fp9vd 01:49:09 *** Flygon has joined #openttd 01:55:53 <Eddi|zuHause> error: 'SORT_ASCENDING' conflicts with a previous declaration <- yay for namespaces? :p 01:56:45 <Eddi|zuHause> or just #undef it :p 03:16:48 *** llugo has quit IRC 03:16:48 *** lugo has quit IRC 03:37:21 *** HerzogDeXtEr has quit IRC 04:07:02 *** wodencafe has quit IRC 04:34:19 *** Gustavo6046 has quit IRC 04:40:50 *** glx has quit IRC 06:27:09 *** gnu_jj_ has quit IRC 06:30:08 *** gnu_jj has joined #openttd 06:57:28 *** sla_ro|master has joined #openttd 07:01:13 *** synchris has joined #openttd 07:07:54 *** ZehMatt has quit IRC 07:19:36 *** snail_UES_ has quit IRC 07:53:56 *** andythenorth has joined #openttd 08:22:47 *** nielsm has joined #openttd 08:36:41 <andythenorth> moin 08:39:42 <nielsm> lo 08:40:36 *** APTX_ has joined #openttd 08:41:04 *** APTX| has quit IRC 09:03:09 *** APTX_ has quit IRC 09:03:46 *** APTX_ has joined #openttd 09:05:42 *** APTX_ has quit IRC 09:05:58 *** APTX_ has joined #openttd 09:09:31 *** APTX_ has quit IRC 09:11:05 *** Progman has joined #openttd 09:40:30 *** gnu_jj has quit IRC 09:41:50 *** gnu_jj has joined #openttd 09:41:53 *** gelignite has joined #openttd 09:42:54 *** APTX_ has joined #openttd 09:49:36 *** andythenorth has quit IRC 10:05:04 *** APTX| has joined #openttd 10:05:24 *** APTX_ has quit IRC 10:21:15 *** chomwitt has joined #openttd 10:24:02 *** iSoSyS has joined #openttd 10:24:32 *** Progman has quit IRC 10:43:43 *** frosch123 has joined #openttd 10:54:08 <planetmaker> o/ 11:12:13 *** gnu_jj has quit IRC 11:13:31 *** Wacko1976 has joined #openttd 11:13:53 *** gnu_jj has joined #openttd 11:17:06 *** gnu_jj has quit IRC 11:17:15 *** gnu_jj has joined #openttd 11:27:34 *** APTX| has quit IRC 11:31:18 *** iSoSyS has quit IRC 11:31:20 *** APTX_ has joined #openttd 11:47:24 *** gnu_jj_ has joined #openttd 11:50:49 *** gnu_jj has quit IRC 11:55:21 *** lugo has joined #openttd 11:55:28 *** llugo has joined #openttd 11:58:19 *** Wacko1976 has quit IRC 12:12:43 *** iSoSyS has joined #openttd 12:16:00 *** andythenorth has joined #openttd 12:26:39 *** APTX_ has quit IRC 12:26:46 *** Wolf01 has joined #openttd 12:26:52 <Wolf01> o/ 12:27:15 *** APTX_ has joined #openttd 12:30:42 *** Wolf01 is now known as Guest5148 12:30:44 *** Wolf01 has joined #openttd 12:33:45 *** Maarten has quit IRC 12:33:50 *** Maarten has joined #openttd 12:34:43 <andythenorth> maybe Horse has too many trains? 12:34:55 <andythenorth> why does no-one ever make smaller newgrfs? 12:34:56 <Eddi|zuHause> too many, too few, everything? 12:35:22 <Eddi|zuHause> i don't think there's a "just the right amount" 12:35:47 *** Guest5148 has quit IRC 12:36:45 *** HerzogDeXtEr has joined #openttd 12:43:30 <andythenorth> :) 12:43:51 <andythenorth> I am +1 12:44:04 <andythenorth> Horse is 'too big' for current game because town density is very low 12:44:23 <andythenorth> so pax trains that are small / high density are irrelevant :) 12:44:30 <andythenorth> meanwhile I wish I could figure out how to unbreak supplies 12:46:19 <planetmaker> <Eddi|zuHause> i don't think there's a "just the right amount" <-- yep, exactly 12:46:57 <planetmaker> "too big" is relative, though. People can filter vehicles... so... not sure it can be 'too big'. It's mostly the one-time effort to setup filters 12:47:40 <nielsm> ehh, there isn't real filters is there? as in "don't show me trains with less than 1000 hp" etc 12:48:11 <nielsm> just hiding individual models 12:48:20 <andythenorth> I've been wondering about filters 12:48:34 <andythenorth> I have grouped engines into classes, which I could expose to a property 12:48:45 <andythenorth> but then...other newgrfs :P 12:49:26 <nielsm> also I've mentioned this before, but having "introductory new technology premium" on (some) vehicle prices, e.g. when the first really fast passenger train is introduced it starts insanely expensive, but the price actually falls over time as the technology enters real mass manufacture 12:49:48 <nielsm> that could help make more variety more viable, I think 12:50:14 <andythenorth> fairly certain that can be done in newgrf 12:50:40 <andythenorth> it would be better to have some kind of tech tree 12:51:09 <andythenorth> so technology can be early stage / mature / legacy 12:51:23 *** Wacko1976 has joined #openttd 12:52:11 <nielsm> yes so maintenance costs of steam engines go through the roof as the world moves on 12:52:53 <andythenorth> that's modelled by reliability in current game 12:53:08 <andythenorth> but reliability is irrelevant because breakdowns have to be off 12:53:22 <nielsm> (it annoys me playing multiplayer where some insist on having "vehicles never expire" on, combined with no breakdowns, just so they can keep having steam running around everywhere in 2020) 12:53:30 <andythenorth> * accuracy: breakdowns have to be off if you use road vehicles 12:54:14 <andythenorth> one day I'll find a savegame which shows why breakdowns are broken :P 12:54:25 <andythenorth> also I'll figure out why cdist is broken 12:54:34 * andythenorth been saying that for years 12:54:41 <nielsm> breakdowns as implemented, both "normal" and "reduced", are unfun to play with 12:55:00 <nielsm> bullshit difficulty 12:55:02 <andythenorth> well 12:55:19 <andythenorth> for trains they're trivial to avoid, you just force servicing with signals 12:55:35 <andythenorth> for RVs they're stupid, because RVs can't find a depot without explicit orders 12:55:51 <andythenorth> and explicit orders for servicing is boring 12:56:05 *** sim-al2 has quit IRC 12:56:21 <andythenorth> also trains can't find a depot if their PBS reservation takes them past it 12:56:35 <andythenorth> they don't trigger a re-route when service is needed (or forced by player) 12:57:41 <nielsm> afaik the problem is that the pathfinder doesn't have a way to search for a route while ignoring the train's own reservation, but taking every other reservation into account 12:57:53 <nielsm> haven't looked at it really, just imagining things 12:58:08 <andythenorth> makes sense 12:58:36 <andythenorth> so the 2020 thing, you'd rather there was no steam, or you'd rather there was a better way to scale vehicle dates? o_O 12:58:49 <nielsm> so you'd have to cancel the reservation to pathfind, but then things might change in front of the train during that 12:59:16 <nielsm> I'd rather that players were punished for using out of date vehicles even with breakdowns off 12:59:55 <nielsm> maybe even something simple like maintenance costs is scaled by the inverse of reliability 13:00:09 <nielsm> (for some appropriate inverse) 13:00:22 <andythenorth> pikka scaled running costs 13:00:26 <andythenorth> by date 13:03:07 * andythenorth still wonders about a parameter for scaling intro dates 13:03:24 <Eddi|zuHause> isn't that what inflation was meant to do? 13:03:30 <nielsm> also you know what, I've realised what part of my issue with the town passenger generation patch is 13:03:55 <nielsm> it's that passenger generation doesn't depend on how many places you can go 13:04:17 <nielsm> I should get more passengers if I can take them to more places 13:05:12 <nielsm> of course, that would mean passengers need to have a destination in mind before they pick a station to start at 13:05:34 <nielsm> completely destroying the premise of cdist 13:06:05 <nielsm> (that's how simutrans and transport fever work) 13:06:26 *** APTX_ has quit IRC 13:06:30 *** APTX_ has joined #openttd 13:06:46 <nielsm> also, passengers should always pay per leg individually, instead of for the entire trip at the end 13:06:55 <andythenorth> cdest :P 13:06:59 <andythenorth> yacd :P 13:07:28 <andythenorth> michi_cc can explain why yacd failed on performance issues :) 13:07:28 <Wolf01> Agreed 13:07:32 <nielsm> I wasn't around when those were being tested 13:07:44 <andythenorth> I played yacd completely for about a year 13:07:45 <nielsm> so know nothing about them expect they existed 13:07:47 <andythenorth> it was great 13:08:00 <andythenorth> everything had a destination 13:08:00 *** APTX_ has quit IRC 13:08:11 *** APTX_ has joined #openttd 13:08:17 <andythenorth> and the destinations were really appropriately scaled 13:08:59 <andythenorth> cdist is ok, and fonso gave a lot of help and bug fixes for me 13:09:17 <andythenorth> but cdist I have to adapt play style a lot, just to get the benefit of automated transfers 13:09:21 <andythenorth> which is all cdist is 13:10:07 <nielsm> cdist models "something", it just doesn't model how things actually move 13:10:16 <nielsm> especially not passengers 13:11:27 * andythenorth wonders if 'no loading' could be made a default on orders :P 13:11:35 <andythenorth> it's tedious setting it for every destination station 13:11:57 <nielsm> hm I suppose the issue with having passengers paying per leg is intentionally setting up infinite loops generating money for moving passengers nowhere in particular 13:12:15 <nielsm> but then you'd just have to qualify those payments on playing with cdist and not using forced unload 13:14:20 *** Gameinsky has joined #openttd 13:15:22 <nielsm> if "manual" setting in cdist meant that you could actually manually specify a distribution scheme (e.g. a flag on timetable per cargo type, "this cargo type is unloadedd as much as possible as early as possible" or "this cargo type is evenly distributed among all accepting stations on the rest of the list") 13:15:25 <nielsm> that would also be nice 13:16:12 <nielsm> or maybe rather per station that receives the goods from production, you can choose per cargo produced whether it's arbitrary distribution or pre-determined destinations production 13:16:37 <nielsm> possibly even choose which destinations are allowed by an inclusion or exclusion list 13:17:11 *** APTX_ has quit IRC 13:17:50 <nielsm> I think that might actually be the sanest approach, add a button next to produced cargoes in the station window, where you can set distribution settings for that cargo from that station 13:19:23 <andythenorth> nielsm: o_O 13:19:29 <andythenorth> or on the shared order group? 13:19:37 <andythenorth> 'routes' 13:20:30 *** APTX_ has joined #openttd 13:22:04 *** APTX_ has quit IRC 13:22:14 *** APTX_ has joined #openttd 13:28:08 <michi_cc> nielsm: Grab a binary from http://bundles.openttdcoop.org/yacd/ and see how you like it :) Infos on required settings at https://www.tt-forums.net/viewtopic.php?f=33&t=54253 13:29:14 <michi_cc> YACD is nice but needs lots of CPU power. Unfortunately, threading it is hard(tm), quite in contrast to the abstract cdist flow graph updates. 13:34:19 <andythenorth> YACD causes some awesome pax networks to get built 13:35:35 <nielsm> https://0x0.st/sD_m.png 13:35:41 <nielsm> there's a concept 13:36:16 <andythenorth> it's plausible 13:37:22 <nielsm> and maybe having an "eyedropper" tool for adding stations instead of typing in names ;) 13:37:30 <nielsm> (similar to building orders lists) 13:38:36 <andythenorth> I used to think this would be horrible micro-management 13:38:41 <andythenorth> but if the defaults are good... 13:39:14 <nielsm> like, if a grf could specify that certain cargo types prefer cdist... 13:39:22 <andythenorth> my objections to cdist are individually minor 13:39:32 <andythenorth> - have to use 'no loading' order to prevent backrouting 13:39:35 <nielsm> or maybe making "supplies" an actual separate cargo class 13:39:37 <andythenorth> - pax is a mess 13:39:46 <andythenorth> - no incentive to connect pax or mail networks 13:40:05 <andythenorth> - have to use one station per destination as pickup from industries 13:40:33 <andythenorth> the automated transfer part is pretty good 13:42:57 <andythenorth> the last one is the worst, having to use one station per destination 13:44:15 <nielsm> not sure I understand what you mean 13:44:35 <nielsm> the destination is a station and not a building? 13:45:01 <nielsm> i.e. it should be able to route to any station that services the building, not just one particular station 13:47:14 *** APTX_ has quit IRC 13:48:21 <andythenorth> if a pickup station has one established route, and a second is added 13:48:28 *** Wacko1976 has quit IRC 13:48:31 <andythenorth> it takes 3-6 months for cargo to be allocated to the second route 13:48:59 <andythenorth> adding a third or fourth route often seems to fail completely 13:49:04 <nielsm> also not very related, I just felt like I had to share a picture of this thing I've had open for several days now: https://0x0.st/sD_e.png 13:49:25 <andythenorth> I've tried fonso's tips for forcing a re-calculation, e.g. running trains empty to the destination etc 13:50:08 <andythenorth> this can be avoided by simply building a new unconnected station 13:52:00 <andythenorth> means I end up with a lot of stations around some industries 13:52:02 *** Wacko1976 has joined #openttd 13:52:28 <andythenorth> spreadsheet has a lot of 0s nielsm o_O 13:52:29 <andythenorth> what is it? 13:52:54 <nielsm> it's a simulation of yet another potential way to generate town cargo 13:53:30 <nielsm> zeroes are when column A value < row 1 value 13:53:39 <nielsm> and otherwise it's the column B value 13:53:45 <andythenorth> what are the factors? o_O 13:54:00 <nielsm> the sum in row 2 is the sum of all the values below 13:54:57 <nielsm> column A and B are generated in python as: 13:54:57 <nielsm> collections.Counter((random.randrange(1,257)*random.randrange(1,257)//256 for i in range(1000000))) 13:56:15 <andythenorth> so is each subequent row a dice roll for pax generation? 14:01:20 <nielsm> I suppose it was just an experiment with a way to generate a sqrt() shaped distribution 14:01:29 <nielsm> which might or might not be a good idea 14:23:06 *** Flygon has quit IRC 14:27:04 *** glx has joined #openttd 14:27:04 *** ChanServ sets mode: +v glx 14:34:26 <andythenorth> hmm 14:34:33 <andythenorth> would be really nice to finish nml industries 14:34:56 *** APTX_ has joined #openttd 14:51:52 *** iSoSyS has quit IRC 15:16:21 *** synchris_ has joined #openttd 15:17:33 *** synchris has quit IRC 15:23:38 *** Gustavo6046 has joined #openttd 15:24:39 *** Wormnest has joined #openttd 15:27:25 <glx> ok with some changes compilation is ok using with mingw-w64 but fails to link https://paste.openttdcoop.org/pz59hzdzl 15:28:29 <glx> unless I build without freetype 15:38:59 <michi_cc> Seeing that libharfbuzz isn't linked by us, I'd guess there's some stuff-up on the lib side. 15:39:19 <glx> it comes with freetype package 15:40:14 <LordAro> glx: istr having the same issues last time i tried to compile on mingw 15:40:56 <LordAro> https://wiki.openttd.org/Compiling_on_Windows_using_MSYS2 ah, i even put it on the wiki! 15:41:31 <LordAro> not that the error seems all that relevant here 15:44:17 *** iSoSyS has joined #openttd 15:49:50 *** gelignite has quit IRC 15:53:42 <glx> probably because https://github.com/harfbuzz/harfbuzz/commit/7919033ce8f6fd32b2dd980ad0aa59c7149a4827 present since harfbuzz 1.7.7 15:55:36 <andythenorth> I am seeing white flashes / glitches on mac OS 15:55:45 <andythenorth> occasional, very short, not quite full screen 15:55:56 <andythenorth> on head of master 15:55:58 <andythenorth> just me? 15:57:20 <LordAro> glx: that's... weird 15:59:15 <glx> so should be in mingw package since jun 7 with 1.8.0 15:59:36 <glx> before it was still 1.7.5 16:00:38 <LordAro> i don't understand why they would define those functions like that 16:00:45 <LordAro> how would that ever work? 16:01:04 <glx> especially in a lib 16:01:09 <glx> that's stupid for me 16:02:11 <LordAro> i'm not seeing any raised issues about it, weirdly 16:02:30 <glx> I think it works in shared lib, but it's completly wrong for a static one 16:02:33 <LordAro> is it because it's compiled statically, i wonder? 16:02:36 <LordAro> yeah 16:02:36 *** Eddi|zuHause has quit IRC 16:03:02 *** Wormnest has quit IRC 16:03:04 *** Eddi|zuHause has joined #openttd 16:03:46 <glx> even memory checkers don't do it that way IIRC 16:04:03 <glx> and they hijack all these calls 16:14:44 <glx> strange, yesterday I tried removing -lstdc++ or adding -Wl,--allow-multiple-definition, linking was ok but running crashed, today it works 16:17:41 <glx> but some characters look ugly compared to the msvc build 16:17:53 <LordAro> heh 16:18:10 <glx> using the same openttd.cfg 16:28:14 *** tokai has joined #openttd 16:28:15 *** ChanServ sets mode: +v tokai 16:28:37 <andythenorth> Eddi|zuHause: are you playing WoT Blitz? 16:28:49 <andythenorth> someone in my game had your nick :P 16:35:03 *** tokai|noir has quit IRC 16:52:22 <glx> tried non static builds, compiles fine, same ugly characters 16:52:44 <glx> something is clearly wrong in mingw-w64 freetype build 16:55:11 <michi_cc> glx: Try with https://github.com/OpenTTD/OpenTTD/pull/6980 :) You might have to fix some WIN32's though. 16:55:39 *** Wacko1976 has quit IRC 17:07:32 *** APTX| has joined #openttd 17:07:56 *** APTX_ has quit IRC 17:10:26 *** gelignite has joined #openttd 17:35:50 *** iSoSyS has quit IRC 17:38:35 <glx> with msvc I see no differences in drawing, waiting for mingw-w64 build (it's slow) 17:39:41 <glx> and of course I use --without-freetype ;) 18:02:59 *** Progman has joined #openttd 18:05:19 <glx> michi_cc: with your work mingw-w64 looks better 18:10:32 *** snail_UES_ has joined #openttd 18:16:37 *** Wacko1976 has joined #openttd 18:26:21 <Wolf01> <andythenorth> someone in my game had your nick :P <- and killed you with no mercy? 18:33:34 *** iSoSyS has joined #openttd 18:39:25 *** iSoSyS has quit IRC 19:18:35 *** APTX| has quit IRC 19:19:19 *** APTX_ has joined #openttd 19:21:56 <Eddi|zuHause> andythenorth: wasn't me 19:34:42 *** APTX| has joined #openttd 19:34:44 *** APTX_ has quit IRC 19:42:27 *** APTX_ has joined #openttd 19:42:49 *** APTX| has quit IRC 19:44:11 <Wolf01> There's one frosch right now in destiny too :P 19:49:22 <Eddi|zuHause> but there must have been at least another 122 frosches before him 19:54:23 <Wolf01> Also wolves and Eddis :P 20:44:51 *** gelignite has quit IRC 20:53:12 <andythenorth> hmm 20:53:44 <andythenorth> how about flagging one train in a group as 'all other trains should match this' 20:53:45 <andythenorth> ?? 20:54:17 <andythenorth> instead of having template trains, and how-to-build-trains-without-a-depot and newgrf cb madness and so on 20:54:28 <andythenorth> worse is better 20:54:33 <frosch123> simutrans routes 20:55:08 <frosch123> anyway, everything breaks with refit orders :) 20:55:09 <andythenorth> are they good? 20:55:29 <frosch123> no idea, i have not touched simutrans in 13 years? 20:57:04 <nielsm> I'm guessing similar to transport fever too, you define a route and then assign trains to that route 20:57:23 <nielsm> and train replacement is also done on a route basis 20:57:25 <frosch123> what's the matching order term for "bridge over everything" 20:57:38 <frosch123> "order anything"? 20:58:14 <nielsm> universal orders? 20:58:33 <frosch123> andythenorth: most games do 1. orders, 2. assign vehicles to orders 20:58:52 <andythenorth> that's very logical 20:58:56 <andythenorth> I like our way :P 20:59:01 <frosch123> ottd and factorio do the reverse: 1. vehicles, 2. assign orders, 3. try to sync orders between vehicles 20:59:33 <frosch123> (for factorio, 3. requires a mod) 20:59:37 <andythenorth> I think we're pretty good 20:59:56 <andythenorth> I only want templates when consist length needs to change 20:59:56 <frosch123> another "bug" factorio copied from ottd :) 20:59:58 <nielsm> railroad tycoon had per-train orders, transport tycoon did roughly the same, simutrans came along and fixed it 21:00:12 <andythenorth> RT3 dispensed with orders 21:00:19 <andythenorth> it had a mad dispatcher system that was amazing 21:00:25 <frosch123> railroad tycoon allowed only like 32 trains or something 21:00:40 <andythenorth> I can make consists shorter, but not longer with rules :P 21:00:40 <nielsm> yeah original RRT was land of limits :) 21:00:48 <andythenorth> 'remove vehicles' is really clever 21:01:01 * andythenorth wonders about silly rule-based auto-replace 21:01:06 <frosch123> oh, right,... there were sequels, never played them, only version 1 21:01:08 <andythenorth> 'replace with 3 of x' 21:01:23 <nielsm> andythenorth that's why I'm suggesting regex for trains 21:01:30 <andythenorth> sed :P 21:01:37 <nielsm> yes 21:01:48 <andythenorth> python list comprehension 21:01:56 <andythenorth> actually that would be fine :P 21:01:59 <andythenorth> code golf 21:02:21 <nielsm> nah actual solution is to merge the shunting patch, then use conditional orders to have trains rebuild themselves 21:02:23 <andythenorth> [b for x in train if x is aj 21:02:37 <andythenorth> nielsm: oof, that might be mornington crescent 21:02:53 <andythenorth> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mornington_Crescent_(game) 21:03:06 <andythenorth> the most complex game to explain to non UK people :P 21:09:04 *** llugo has quit IRC 21:09:04 *** lugo has quit IRC 21:18:48 *** synchris_ has quit IRC 21:19:49 <DorpsGek_II> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] michicc updated pull request #6980: GDI engine for font glyph rendering as a replacement for FreeType https://git.io/fpEtn 21:25:24 *** Gja has joined #openttd 21:28:08 *** Gja has quit IRC 21:40:14 *** frosch123 has quit IRC 21:40:20 <DorpsGek_II> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] ldpl commented on pull request #6986: Allow the center tile to always get a house when playing with 3x3/Better https://git.io/fp92Q 21:46:11 <nielsm> that pretty much shoots down that PR as it is 22:06:24 *** nielsm has quit IRC 22:08:07 *** andythenorth has left #openttd 22:19:00 *** sla_ro|master has quit IRC 22:53:23 *** Wolf01 has quit IRC 23:32:56 *** Flygon has joined #openttd 23:38:20 *** snail_UES_ has quit IRC 23:43:41 *** Progman has quit IRC 23:47:13 *** Wacko1976 has quit IRC