Log for #openttd on 24th December 2018:
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00:00:17  <_dp_> planetmaker, yeah, sounds fine too
00:00:18  <planetmaker> like grf v8 allows to use 32bpp. And easier composing of sprites, access to some callbacks which the old version doesn't allow
00:00:43  <planetmaker> but that was introduced due to necessity as those extensions required incompatible changes
00:00:45  <_dp_> planetmaker, after all it usually exotic theoretic possibilites that block features not something newgrfs actually do
00:01:03  <planetmaker> yeah. Mostly true
00:01:15  <Zuu_> nielsm: One thing I have in my plie of patches that never got completed is interactive story book elements. Think input fields and buttons or even a form.
00:01:32  <nielsm> Zuu_ exactly something like that :)
00:01:44  <planetmaker> Honestly, I think the complete extension system of OpenTTD is borked. Not for bad reasons. But for historical reasons. It lacks a uniform design
00:02:34  <nielsm> Zuu_, in part for this thing I never got very far with:
00:02:37  <planetmaker> But to completely rework that... dunno whether that's feasible at all
00:03:05  <nielsm> ah you already posted in the thread :)
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00:03:10  <planetmaker> haha, the 1st reply is by Zu u :P
00:03:45  <Zuu_> :-)
00:04:18  <nielsm> one of the features I wanted for it was marking industries as "keep in stasis until someone services it"
00:04:49  <planetmaker> that needs... integration with NewGRF, *I think*
00:04:53  <nielsm> (i.e. an industry that doesn't increase or decrease production, or close, until someone starts using it)
00:04:58  <planetmaker> though I never really understood why
00:05:20  <planetmaker> probably because the prod. callback can return sth like 'close this industry'
00:05:23  <_dp_> yeah, I did a whole thing that detects industry closure and instantly rebuilds it in place xD
00:05:39  <nielsm> couldn't you just not query the industry for anything at all if it's marked as "frozen"?
00:06:02  <nielsm> never call any cb's or otherwise
00:06:04  <planetmaker> I'd recon one could
00:06:17  <planetmaker> but... dunno
00:06:53  <nielsm> trouble is if you want to change production
00:07:18  <nielsm> would probably need a new cb (or new flag for existing cb) for indicating "gs wants you to change production"
00:08:26  <_dp_> and instant change if there is no one listening to it
00:08:32  <_dp_> coz fuck newgrfs :d
00:08:50  <nielsm> (the GS would send off a message and never know if it succeeded)
00:09:16  <nielsm> (but should have a way of knowing if the industry is capable of changing production levels)
00:09:40  <nielsm> (is anyone taking notes on all this?)
00:09:48  <_dp_> doesn't it already have a way to check production?
00:09:53  <nielsm> I'm getting really tired, should say gn
00:10:31  <nielsm> yeah, gn
00:10:56  <_dp_> gn :)
00:12:34  <planetmaker> an industry cannot have no production callback
00:13:05  <planetmaker> either it defines its own. Or if not, the default CB for the industry of its type is used
00:13:09  <planetmaker> but there always is one
00:13:21  <Zuu_> Hmm src/script/api/ still seem to call svn to set eol style on files.
00:14:06  <planetmaker> hehe. "a bit" outdated
00:15:51  <planetmaker> but I should also say 'good night'. So... good night :)
00:16:07  <Zuu_> Good night
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00:39:10  <Samu> I'm down to 1 command
00:52:23  * Zuu_ managed to remember enough C++ to create an API AIController.GetGameScriptShortName().
00:52:36  <Zuu_> Not sure if it makes sense though.
00:54:35  <Zuu_> I'm poundering adding a new AI-read-only field on goals that GS can set.
00:55:33  <Zuu_> Would handle most GS -> AI info needs. Maybe with an AI event when this data changes.
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01:02:23  <Zuu_> But then the city builders will request a similar thing on town requirements, so perhaps a generic data board is still better or message queue. But the later need to have messages persisted in save game. And then you probably have to implement it for all events which is nice but a much larger task.
01:03:49  <Zuu_> And all type of event based communication have the problem that if the AI saves just after it has read the event and OpenTTD destroys it from the save, but before the AI has processed the meaning of it, then there is a loss. So there is a need for re-sending and ping-ponging data.
01:04:46  <Zuu_> While a wall/board where GS can post data is more clearly persisted and the AI can read it whenever it want more or less without synchronization with the GS.
01:05:20  <Zuu_> But well, it is late and christmas so Good night.
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07:13:55  <andythenorth> o/
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09:06:51  <stefino> hi all, we have a problem with MUSA. It gives a socket error - errno 10054 - connection was end by remote host (or somethink like this - I ave it in czech). Any idea what's wrong?
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09:47:56  <nielsm> sigh won't have time to work on anything in nml or fix those build/prospect industry window string bugs, have to leave for family in a few
09:52:47  <planetmaker> merry Christmas everyone :)
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10:05:57  <andythenorth> nielsm: :)
10:06:05  <andythenorth> nml will keep
10:06:08  <Wolf01> o/
10:07:31  <andythenorth> yo
10:08:10  <andythenorth> 88%
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10:36:44  <stefino> hi all, we have a problem with MUSA. It gives a socket error - errno 10054 - connection was end by remote host (or somethink like this - I ave it in czech). Any idea what's wrong?
10:40:12  <nielsm> it can be pretty much anything, a problem with firewalls/routers on your end, some equipment at your ISP failing, or a server problem
10:40:36  <nielsm> and btw the screenshot you posted of the error, it has your password in it so you may want to remove that again (or change your password)
10:43:26  <stefino> yeah I know, forgot to remove it :D But I dont think there are people what wanna to change anything in ma profile the end - it will be their problem in case we will stop produce graphics :D
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10:48:08  <stefino> but thanks for remind :)
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11:18:37  <andythenorth> quak
11:21:45  <andythenorth> 89%
11:22:52  <Eddi|zuHause> you have one day for the other 11%
11:23:54  <andythenorth> or I release at < 100%
11:23:57  <andythenorth> or I remove stuff
11:26:21  <planetmaker> I know a guy who once told me "release early, release often" :)
11:29:12  <planetmaker> anyhow... I'm off for now, too.
11:29:25  <_dp_> microsoft way? it compiles -> sell it
11:32:11  <_dp_> Zuu_, having some way for GS to globally declare goal settings would also benefit patched clients
11:33:09  <_dp_> like right now I'm using newgrf storage for that on our servers and some sketchy GS strings parsing for other servers
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11:35:11  <_dp_> though I'm storing there all the stuff I have not just goal settings
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12:03:32  <andythenorth> Eddi|zuHause: sprites are complete for all vehicles 1950-2000
12:03:34  <andythenorth> release? :P
12:04:06  <Eddi|zuHause> or you do that one day of work and then release? :p
12:05:52  <andythenorth> probs
12:06:04  * andythenorth still has to make some sprites to test vehicle offsets
12:06:09  <andythenorth> offsets are still wrong
12:06:22  <andythenorth> why we don't just patch nml to do the offsets for each length, I don't know :P
12:06:54  <andythenorth> presumably there must be some actually 'correct' values for offsets?
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12:30:41  <Wolf01> So, with the ISP's modem the connection is more stable but I have absolute no control on it, strict NAT and so on, I had to reconnect my modem to play :|
12:31:53  <TrueBrain> if that stefino drops by again, tell him he is not the author of the content, so he can not upload a newer version for it :)
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12:43:45  <Eddi|zuHause> andythenorth: the "correct" way is to make them once for each template and then forget about them?
12:44:07  <andythenorth> well yes
12:44:12  <andythenorth> but every author has to repeat
12:58:49  <andythenorth> front of this in 8bpp pixels is interesting
13:00:13  <peter1138> It'd be disasterous if we implemented support for 32bpp pixels...
13:05:18  <Eddi|zuHause> who would ever want THAT?
13:08:18  <andythenorth> apparently 32bpp FIRS
13:08:32  <andythenorth> not by me though
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13:13:14  <TrueBrain> funny, if you force push a new commit while the Azure CI is running, it will fail when starting a new job .. as it tries to checkout a now invalid ref :D
13:13:17  <TrueBrain> guess that isn't a biggy
13:13:19  <TrueBrain> still funny
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13:13:52  <andythenorth> "force-push considered harmful"
13:14:16  <TrueBrain> yup
13:14:20  <TrueBrain> and rightfully so :)
13:14:21  <orudge> TrueBrain: if you want me to apply for an official Azure DevOps account through the OpenTTD MS account at some point, let me know (or I can give you the login details)
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13:14:40  <TrueBrain> orudge: good you are here, I have two things for you :P
13:14:49  <TrueBrain> that being one of them :D
13:14:55  <orudge> Heh
13:15:11  <TrueBrain> do we have an OpenTTD MS account?
13:15:22  <orudge> Yep
13:15:31  <orudge> the Windows Store version is published through it
13:15:31  <TrueBrain> what for? :)
13:15:35  <TrueBrain> ah
13:15:44  <TrueBrain> we have a published version on Windows Store?
13:15:48  <orudge> YEP
13:15:48  <TrueBrain> thought you were working on that :P
13:15:51  <orudge> I was
13:15:51  <TrueBrain> since when?
13:15:54  <orudge> A few weeks
13:15:57  <orudge> It's not a UWP app
13:15:59  <orudge> just a desktop app
13:16:05  <orudge> just the official desktop app rebundled basically
13:16:05  <TrueBrain> why isn't this on the frontpage?
13:16:12  <orudge> No idea how to post on the front page :D
13:16:18  <orudge> I maybe knew once upon a time
13:16:34  <orudge> maybe I just need to log n
13:16:34  <TrueBrain> why is there still a 2 euro version on the store ..
13:16:41  <TrueBrain> orudge: poke frosch123 or something :P
13:16:48  <orudge> TrueBrain: We'd need a trademark to get MS to remove it
13:16:52  <orudge> I did contact them about it
13:17:02  <TrueBrain> what a tards
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13:17:11  <TrueBrain> why is the background image this blue? That looks weeeiiirrrrdddd
13:17:38  <orudge> Yeah, that needs a little bit of work
13:17:47  <orudge> plus some more screenshots/videos etc would be nice
13:18:40  <orudge> but it works, x86 and x64 versions both on there
13:18:43  <TrueBrain> orudge: well, if you would be so kind to create a devops space, and assign my email address to the allowed users :)
13:18:57  <orudge> I'm slowly working on bits that should eventually enable a UWP build if we so desire
13:19:10  <TrueBrain> that would be very good :)
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13:20:26  <TrueBrain> right, and let me fix the second question I have for you .. need to prepare stuff for that :)
13:20:39  <orudge> OK
13:20:51  <orudge> I'll probably only be on for another 30 minutes or so, then I must get back to Christmas things :)
13:21:27  <TrueBrain> I cant remember how I created the azure pipelines account, but I am sure you can figure that out yourself :D
13:21:29  <TrueBrain> was easy :P
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13:27:09  <andythenorth> oof
13:27:15  <andythenorth> nobody looks at | views, right? :P
13:29:07  <TrueBrain> argh, greylisting makes this take for everrrrrrrr
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13:30:37  <TrueBrain> orudge: my next question is going to be if you can activate the digitalocean account I am creating ... just ...... it takes for ever to do that :D
13:31:15  <TrueBrain> I click resend, but I dont think it really resends .. so I have to wait for another try of their MTA :(
13:32:01  <orudge> TrueBrain: does that require billing details, I assume? I can do so if/when an e-mail comes through or you send me details; it may be a couple of days before I get a chance if I don't get it shortly though
13:33:00  <TrueBrain> yeah, billing indeed :D
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13:33:11  <TrueBrain> and that is okay ... there is no real rush :D
13:33:18  <TrueBrain> I just wanted to use the oppurtinity :D
13:33:50  <TrueBrain> email is being email
13:35:02  <TrueBrain> they use different sendernames for each mail .. each getting stuck in the greylisting :D Lolz :D
13:39:06  <TrueBrain> tnx a lot orudge :)
13:39:12  <TrueBrain> and already a merry xmas :D
13:39:19  <orudge> And you too :)
13:40:35  <TrueBrain> awh, we get no free credits? Boooeeeee
13:40:58  <orudge> Send them an e-mail maybe
13:41:05  <orudge> I'm sure they used to offer 0 or so
13:41:36  <TrueBrain> I should have used referal
13:41:37  <TrueBrain> dammit :D
13:41:45  <TrueBrain> and on my personal account I just got 0 :P
13:41:47  <orudge>
13:41:53  <TrueBrain> owh well, not the worst thing :)
13:42:11  <TrueBrain> bit silly I forgot referal :(
13:43:25  <TrueBrain> hmm, everything suggests we should receive it indeed :) Owh well, I will figure that out :)
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14:42:10  <TrueBrain> yippie, finally building all the containers on Azure works :D
14:46:14  <andythenorth> \o/
14:46:19  <andythenorth> TrueBrain is santa
14:47:06  <TrueBrain> I hope not
14:47:10  <TrueBrain> would be a bit weird :P
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15:02:11  <TrueBrain> now I need to do the step that might break the current CI :D
15:02:12  <TrueBrain> lets find out!
15:05:00  <Samu> where is zuu
15:05:28  <TrueBrain> on earth!
15:05:30  <TrueBrain> did I win?
15:05:32  <Samu> 	function IsCompanyValueGSGame(); 	 	function IsCompanyValueGSInGoalMode(); 	 	function IsCompanyValueGSInRankingMode(); 	 	function GetBestCompanyID(); 	 	function GetBestCompanyValue(); 	 	function GetCurrentTargetValue();
15:05:56  <Samu> which questions should be available to ask?
15:06:32  <andythenorth> TrueBrain: winner is you
15:06:39  * andythenorth back to pixels
15:06:46  <Samu> got those atm
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15:08:59  <TrueBrain> it takes 10 agents to build all the release/CI containers we have in 10 minutes :P
15:09:12  <TrueBrain> took a bit longer when I build them on my own machine :D
15:12:02  <andythenorth> never draw asymmetric trains
15:12:06  <andythenorth> 50% of life wasted
15:12:45  <TrueBrain> aawwwwhhhh
15:12:59  <andythenorth> TrueBrain: how long it used to take?
15:13:07  <TrueBrain> 10 * 10 ? :D
15:13:22  <andythenorth> sounds lame
15:13:27  <andythenorth> faster is better
15:13:41  <TrueBrain> it really is
15:13:51  <TrueBrain> seems you get 10 free agents per project, not per job
15:13:51  <andythenorth> slow CI is for peasants
15:14:01  <TrueBrain> s/job/pipeline
15:14:10  <TrueBrain> so .. do I need to make a project per GitHub project? :P
15:14:18  <TrueBrain> (they suggest to make a Pipeline per github project)
15:14:24  <TrueBrain> I DONT LIKE SHARING
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15:22:50  <andythenorth> ME NEITHER
15:23:02  <andythenorth> I stole your caps
15:26:38  <TrueBrain> :'(
15:35:06  <andythenorth> exactly 52000 sprites in Horse
15:35:10  <andythenorth> what are the chances of that? o_O
15:35:17  <andythenorth> someone do probability? o_O
15:46:07  <TrueBrain> 100%
15:46:09  <TrueBrain> there :P
15:46:27  <TrueBrain>
15:46:29  <TrueBrain> it is getting shape :)
15:47:47  * andythenorth 90% done on Horse sprites
15:48:15  <andythenorth> TrueBrain: did Microsoft learn to design?
15:48:20  <andythenorth> it looks...more than ok :o
15:48:28  <andythenorth> better than Google anyway
15:48:34  <TrueBrain> indeed
15:48:40  <TrueBrain> I was as surprised as you are :D
15:48:50  <TrueBrain> there are a few quirks in the interface, but overall it is very nice
15:49:31  <andythenorth> it's almost like they actually want to win
15:50:13  <TrueBrain> it is almost like they stopped wanting to win, and just want to be part of
15:51:15  <andythenorth> >90% done = release, right? :P
15:51:19  <TrueBrain> yes
15:51:28  * andythenorth completes a few more things
15:51:35  <andythenorth> then it's > 90000%
15:51:38  <TrueBrain> .. what are the odds I can find someone to review around xmas? :D
15:51:57  <andythenorth> depends how many of our introverts are stuck with their families :)
15:52:24  <Samu> help guys, what do you think a function named GetCompanyIDRank(company_id) will do? wondering if it's unclear
15:52:36  <Samu> may need to improve name
16:00:11  <TrueBrain> wow, GitHub shows force pushes now, including the old ref. That is nice
16:02:48  <TrueBrain> andythenorth: I think I will make the 'download' stuff on a very small flask application that only does downloads. That would be sweet, fast, and maintainable :D
16:03:09  <TrueBrain> possibly combined with Spaces from DigitalOcean .. free CDN :) (well, 'free')
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16:04:04  <TrueBrain> either way, time to make myself some epic fooooddddd :D
16:04:08  <Samu>
16:04:15  <Samu> looks good
16:05:25  <Samu> what other questions would be useful to ask?
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17:19:27  <frosch123> why did everything on the docker files change? weird eol?
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18:15:59  <TrueBrain> frosch123: not that I am aware; just moving of files mostly
18:16:06  <TrueBrain> possibly git lost track :D
18:16:43  <TrueBrain> so the free trial on DigitalOcean doesnt work for team accounts .. well .. that is just odd
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18:20:42  <glx> hey TrueBrain, vcpkg works well to build 64bit, but fails to link against zlib and freetype in 32bit
18:21:22  <ekcja> Hello may I ask something?
18:21:38  <glx> @topic 3
18:21:38  <DorpsGek> glx: topic [<channel>]
18:21:46  <glx> @topic #openttd 3
18:21:46  <DorpsGek> glx: topic [<channel>]
18:22:07  <glx> well just ask
18:23:02  <glx> @topic get 3
18:23:02  <DorpsGek> glx: Don't ask to ask, just ask
18:23:14  <glx> finally found the command
18:23:24  <ekcja> Why can't I rejoin when I have been kicked?
18:23:28  <ekcja> Is this like a ban or something?
18:23:55  <glx> probably something to ask to the server admin
18:26:28  <TrueBrain> glx: I noticed too yes; haven't looked into it yet ... seems a bit weird
18:26:33  <TrueBrain> any clue what is going on there?
18:26:53  <TrueBrain> are the libs in the correct format etc? (can't test locally .. hard to debug :D)
18:27:07  <glx> other libs work
18:28:27  <TrueBrain> oddddd
18:28:48  <TrueBrain> can you fiddle around with it a bit? Try a new project with only zlib or something?
18:28:51  <TrueBrain> see what is going on?
18:49:42  <Samu> noob question
18:49:51  <Samu> can AIs respond to popup windows?
18:50:05  <Samu> can they click "Continue" or so that the AIs send?
18:50:16  <Samu> erm, GS sends*
18:51:02  <Samu> nevermind, i guess not
18:51:20  <Samu> the GS pauses the game, the AI code doesn't run when game is paused
18:51:56  <Samu> what if the GS didn't pause?
19:00:03  <TrueBrain> glx: do you think we still need mingw support (for win95/win98)? Or did we already drop those targets :P
19:12:08  <TrueBrain> hmm, no notifications of Translation commit? Odd :D
19:12:27  <TrueBrain> right, lets see if the new images still work as expected ....
19:15:02  <TrueBrain> every Saturday at 2200 new images are created for the CF. This means we stay up-to-date with what-ever upstream is doing :)
19:15:17  <TrueBrain> frosch123: ^^ mostly important for you to know too, I guess :)
19:16:49  <frosch123> TrueBrain: there is no compiler for win9x that supports c++11 or newer
19:16:59  <TrueBrain> frosch123: mingw64 doesn't?
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19:17:29  <frosch123> mingw32 compiles for 9x but does not c++11. mingw64 does c++11 but does not 9x
19:17:43  <TrueBrain> so .. I can remove mingw from my list :)
19:17:46  <frosch123> (based on knowledge from last year)
19:17:47  <TrueBrain> easypeazy
19:17:48  <TrueBrain> tnx :)
19:18:06  <TrueBrain> andythenorth: did we want to squash repository into a single commit, or are we fine with all these commits?
19:19:51  <frosch123> TrueBrain: is the 2200 thing about nightlies, or also about the CI for PR?
19:20:12  <TrueBrain> frosch123: every saturday at 2200, all the images for the CF (both the CI and the releases) are rebuild
19:20:20  <frosch123> nice :)
19:20:39  <TrueBrain> yeah .. just one drawback: it can happen, without anyone doing anything, that builds start to fail :)
19:20:51  <TrueBrain> we still want to know that, but it might take a bit of putting 2 and 2 together to figure out why :D
19:21:53  <TrueBrain> next thing on the agenda: port Jenkins to Azure Pipelines
19:21:57  <TrueBrain> faster CI results :D
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19:22:32  <TrueBrain> most of the work is already done .. I just have to put in the container stuff :)
19:29:08  <TrueBrain> Azure Pipelines contains most of the stuff I was looking for; which is rather nice :D
19:29:13  <TrueBrain> it even has a deployment dashboard :P
19:30:48  <TrueBrain> right, before I can do the CI for OpenTTD, we have to find out why 32bit vcpkg stuff doesnt work I guess
19:35:22  <TrueBrain> some minor differences in the lib files .. but I dont know enough about them to judge that :D
19:35:33  <TrueBrain> in the 64bit lib it is called 'deflate'. In the 32bit lib it is called '_deflate'
19:35:41  <TrueBrain> who knows if that matters :P
19:41:10  <TrueBrain> glx: possibly zlib fails because vcpkg renamed zlibstatic.lib to zlib.lib
19:41:19  <TrueBrain> it might be worth trying renaming it back, and see what that does for the build
19:43:38  <Samu> who has free time?
19:44:11  <Samu> plz read this if you have free time.
19:44:26  <Samu> need to know if it's easy to understand for others
19:44:49  <Samu> or if there's still doubts or improvements to be made, the functions are at the bottom, just in case
20:07:31  <peter1138> TrueBrain, just deprecate (drop) 32 bit Windows builds :D
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20:41:05  <Samu> :(
20:46:13  <Taede> samu: seems fine aside from some minor grammar points
20:46:17  <Taede> ive added a comment
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21:47:34  <Samu> where
21:47:58  <Samu> ah, thx
21:48:02  <Samu> i see them
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22:18:01  <glx> TrueBrain: renaming is not the problem, as it's done for 64bit too
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22:48:40  <Zuu> Samu: GetCompanyIDRank could be changed into a method that returns an AIList. Eg. your sorted global_list. Then the AI doesn't need to rebuild the list for each company ID if it wants to build a list itself.
22:50:00  <Zuu> Otherwise it looks good. And would be good also with GetCompanyIDRank. Usually you probably is most concerned with if you are leading or not and the gap between your company value and the target.
22:52:17  <Zuu> Or you want to know the companyId of the leading company so you can focus on competition against that company, buth at has a method already.
22:56:57  <Zuu> night
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23:19:38  <glx> TrueBrain: I added /VERBOSE option, zlib symbols are correctly found for libpng references, but not for openttd references
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23:44:05  <glx> TrueBrain: seems related to calling convention, if I change to cdecl freetype links fine, but zlib still fails
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