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00:03:53 <Eddi|zuHause> LordAro: i was just trying to sort out the capitalisation and then i drew a complete blank on how capitalisation is meant to work... 00:04:52 <Eddi|zuHause> would be easier if someone else did this, my brain is for some weird reason not able to do this 00:08:17 <Eddi|zuHause> gonna --abort this, makes no sense like this 00:09:36 <DorpsGek_II> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] PeterN updated pull request #6784: Ship cpu hog workaround for #6145 https://git.io/vpxjO 00:11:11 <peter1138> ^ LordAro 00:11:49 <LordAro> :) 00:18:13 <peter1138> One day I might post something other than food on Instagram. But not today. 00:22:33 <Eddi|zuHause> one day you upgrade for sublte advertising? 00:24:47 <DorpsGek_II> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] PeterN commented on pull request #7057: Fix: A few minor compile warnings under MinGW https://git.io/fhnHW 00:32:00 <DorpsGek_II> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] glx22 commented on pull request #7031: Add: squirrel_export.vbs https://git.io/fhnH4 00:34:41 <DorpsGek_II> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] LordAro approved pull request #7031: Add: squirrel_export.vbs https://git.io/fhnHR 00:34:55 <DorpsGek_II> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] LordAro merged pull request #7031: Add: squirrel_export.vbs https://git.io/fhZnQ 00:59:21 <Samu> wow, opf search method is really retarded 00:59:56 <Samu> without all the randoms choices, it just go straight until it finds an obstacle 01:00:03 <Samu> then it makes a turn 01:00:11 <Samu> usually turns back 01:02:09 <Samu> bird distance isn't used to help it make better choices 01:02:14 <Samu> why 01:02:56 <Samu> im no pathfinder expert 01:03:05 <Samu> but it's weird 01:05:39 *** Flygon has joined #openttd 01:09:16 <peter1138> It's designed to be low CPU usage. 01:16:02 *** Smedles_ has joined #openttd 01:18:26 <Samu> oh? and then it ends up being the most intensive 01:19:12 *** Smedles has quit IRC 01:21:40 <peter1138> How so? 01:21:52 <Samu> i guess the random choices makes it look "smarter" 01:22:11 <peter1138> They make it more likely to get there, heh. 01:22:28 <Samu> on my 5000 ship testing, OPF is too slow 01:22:50 <Samu> compared with the other 2 01:23:31 <Samu> but the test uses many buoys, so it could influence results 01:29:04 <DorpsGek_II> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] glx22 commented on pull request #7057: Fix: A few minor compile warnings under MinGW https://git.io/fhnQv 01:30:06 *** HerzogDeXtEr has quit IRC 01:33:13 *** Thedarkb-X40 has joined #openttd 01:38:06 <Samu> just managed to decrease the stall from 14 seconds to 5 seconds 01:38:14 <Samu> for opf 01:38:45 <Samu> that means, npf is the worst when mass sending 5000 ships to depot 01:39:22 <Samu> also with 14 seconds 01:40:46 <Samu> why is this a DoCommand, it tests before executing, so basically, it's 10000 ships 01:41:00 <Samu> does the same work twice 01:42:11 <Samu> @calc 23.656 - 9.015 01:42:11 <DorpsGek> Samu: 14.641 01:42:23 <Samu> npf still stalls for 14 seconds 01:43:51 <Samu> @calc 30.156 - 25.421 01:43:51 <DorpsGek> Samu: 4.735 01:44:07 <Samu> opf stalls for ~5 seconds 01:45:18 <Samu> @calc 31.906 - 45.406 01:45:18 <DorpsGek> Samu: -13.5 01:45:32 <Samu> @calc 31.906 - 34.406 01:45:32 <DorpsGek> Samu: -2.5 01:45:48 <Samu> 2.5 secs for yapf, the king 01:47:56 *** triolus has joined #openttd 01:48:37 <Samu> mass sending 5000 ships to depot results: 01:48:53 <Samu> opf - 4.7 secs 01:48:59 <Samu> npf - 14,6 secs 01:49:04 <Samu> yapf - 2,5 secs 01:49:47 <Samu> must investigate what's so bad about npf for such a long stall 01:57:33 <peter1138> Did you investigate the underlying algorithms behind OPF, NPF and YAPF? 01:59:28 <Samu> in ship_cmd.cpp? 01:59:50 *** triolus has quit IRC 02:00:20 <peter1138> No, in the pathfinding code, heh. 02:00:31 <peter1138> Are you aware that NPF and YAPF are basically the same pathfinding algorithm? 02:00:41 <peter1138> OPF isn't. 02:00:57 <Samu> that's even stranger 02:01:17 <glx> NPF and YAPF are implementations of A* 02:04:54 <Samu> i dont know how to properly time a single search 02:06:34 <peter1138> NPF is a simple literal approach to the algorithm. 02:07:07 <peter1138> YAPF is heavily optimized by using C++ templating and implementing a cache. 02:07:49 <peter1138> So, yeah, YAPF is faster than NPF... by design. 02:08:38 <Samu> what does the cache do? 02:08:47 <peter1138> What does a cache normally do? 02:09:08 <Samu> but in this case, feels like cache isn't doing anything yet 02:09:15 <Samu> or is it? 02:26:03 <Samu> there is no cache for ships, or i dont understand whether it's working 02:29:47 <Samu> CYapfShipAnyDepot2::stFindNearestDepot = 0x00007ff615ebb360 {openttd.exe!CYapfFollowShipT<CYapfShip_TypesT<CYapfShipAnyDepot2,CFollowTrackT<2,Ship,1,0>,CNodeList_HashTableT<CYapfShipNodeT<CYapfNodeKeyExitDir>,10,12>,CYapfDestinationAnyDepotShipT> >::stFindNearestDepot(const Ship *, unsigned int, T... 02:29:54 <Samu> now in english, plz :p 02:33:04 *** Wormnest has joined #openttd 02:43:46 *** Wormnest has quit IRC 03:04:12 *** Thedarkb-X40 has quit IRC 03:06:20 <Samu> can't spot any cache being worked 03:07:02 <Samu> i think this cache is only for rail 03:07:11 <Samu> caches track segments? 03:11:47 *** D-HUND has joined #openttd 03:15:04 *** debdog has quit IRC 03:36:44 *** glx has quit IRC 03:38:57 <DorpsGek_II> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] SamuXarick updated pull request #6928: Fix #5713: Use pathfinder to find closest ship depot https://git.io/fhZzm 03:50:37 *** Samu has quit IRC 03:56:27 *** triolus has joined #openttd 04:09:29 *** triolus has quit IRC 04:09:46 *** triolus has joined #openttd 04:44:24 *** snail_UES_ has quit IRC 04:49:01 *** triolus has quit IRC 05:02:45 *** triolus has joined #openttd 05:04:52 *** Smedles_ has quit IRC 05:18:01 *** triolus has quit IRC 05:23:58 *** triolus has joined #openttd 05:31:51 *** triolus has quit IRC 06:24:51 *** Smedles has joined #openttd 07:05:47 *** HerzogDeXtEr has joined #openttd 07:10:21 *** chomwitt has joined #openttd 07:25:54 *** HerzogDeXtEr has quit IRC 07:35:00 <peter1138> He should be a pathfinder expert by now. 07:35:25 <peter1138> I fear though that he hasn't figured out there's a built-in profiling mode for one of them. 08:01:33 *** andythenorth has joined #openttd 08:02:00 <andythenorth> Eddi|zuHause: I have a custom python sort challenge 08:02:19 <andythenorth> current implementation is "sorted(wagon_consists, key=lambda wagon_consist: wagon_consist.subtype)" 08:02:38 <andythenorth> subtypes are 'A', 'B', 'C', or 'U' 08:03:08 <andythenorth> I want sort rank to be 'U', 'A', 'B', 'C' 08:03:15 <andythenorth> I thought of at least two bad ways to do it 08:03:55 <andythenorth> but presumably sort can be given a custom comparison, such that U < A, U < B, U < C, and A B C remain lexical w.r.t each other 08:17:26 *** D-HUND is now known as debdog 08:34:02 *** Thedarkb1-T60 has quit IRC 08:44:27 *** andythenorth is now known as Guest625 08:44:27 *** andythenorth has joined #openttd 08:48:19 *** Guest625 has quit IRC 09:04:53 *** andythenorth has quit IRC 09:17:44 <peter1138> Hmm. 09:37:26 <planetmaker> moin moin 10:38:18 *** andythenorth has joined #openttd 11:08:28 *** D-HUND has joined #openttd 11:11:28 <peter1138> Anything left to close? 11:11:49 *** debdog has quit IRC 11:12:38 *** D-HUND is now known as debdog 11:24:02 <andythenorth> nothing 11:24:05 <andythenorth> all closed 11:28:14 <andythenorth> https://github.com/OpenTTD/OpenTTD/pull/6811 11:28:15 <andythenorth> ;) 11:43:50 <peter1138> Ah 11:43:55 <peter1138> Stale ;p 11:58:21 *** andythenorth has quit IRC 12:11:13 *** kragniz is now known as kgz 13:12:40 <DorpsGek_II> [OpenTTD/website] claman commented on pull request #18: Change copyright date to use site.time https://git.io/fhnxE 13:17:37 *** tokai|noir has joined #openttd 13:17:37 *** ChanServ sets mode: +v tokai|noir 13:22:04 *** snail_UES_ has joined #openttd 13:24:27 *** tokai has quit IRC 13:28:39 *** andythenorth has joined #openttd 13:29:35 <andythenorth> close it! 13:30:37 *** andythenorth has quit IRC 13:34:10 *** andythenorth has joined #openttd 13:52:16 <DorpsGek_II> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] Gabda87 updated pull request #7047: Add #6887: Highlight tiles within local authority of towns https://git.io/fhn44 14:01:33 <DorpsGek_II> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] Gabda87 commented on pull request #7025: Add #6887: Option to show zone inside local authority boundary of towns https://git.io/fhnpz 14:04:43 <Eddi|zuHause> andythenorth: depends how "exdentable" you need it, but as a start how about "sorted(wagon_consists, key=lambda wagon_consist: {"U": 1, "A": 2, "B": 3, "C": 4}[wagon_consist.subtype])" 14:05:10 <andythenorth> Eddi|zuHause: looks good I'll try 14:05:44 <Eddi|zuHause> you could also fiddle around with rexex 14:07:03 <Eddi|zuHause> or you could rename the subtypes so they are lexical ordering to begin with 14:07:38 <andythenorth> that was my crude solution 14:07:45 <andythenorth> but yours works, and is highly readable 14:08:28 <andythenorth> thanks 14:14:21 *** Gabda has joined #openttd 14:15:54 *** Flygon has quit IRC 14:17:59 <Gabda> @logs 14:18:00 <DorpsGek> Gabda: https://webster.openttdcoop.org/index.php?channel=openttd 14:25:50 *** andythenorth has quit IRC 14:35:55 *** sla_ro|master has joined #openttd 14:46:32 *** nielsm has joined #openttd 14:51:53 *** smoke_fumus has joined #openttd 14:58:38 *** Samu has joined #openttd 14:58:44 <Samu> hi 15:01:11 <Samu> how do I measure the time a code part takes to complete? 15:02:11 <Samu> need to investigate why npf stalls for too long 15:03:12 <Samu> want to know where exactly the slowdown comes from 15:05:49 <LordAro> Samu: the thing you want to google is "profiling" 15:05:58 <LordAro> and probably add "visual studio" 15:09:26 <Samu> diagnostic tools? 15:17:19 <milek7> i use gperftools 15:18:33 <nielsm> visual studio community should have microsoft's profiler built in 15:18:50 <nielsm> just keep in mind it can take a LOT of memory/storage to capture a profiling run 15:27:43 <DorpsGek_II> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] gregcarlin commented on pull request #7003: Feature #6918: Add option to adjust font size separately from GUI size. https://git.io/fhnjW 15:29:09 *** Wormnest has joined #openttd 15:40:12 *** HerzogDeXtEr has joined #openttd 15:41:41 <Samu> dont know how to make it work 15:42:07 <Samu> it always says no code was run during selected time range 15:42:17 <DorpsGek_II> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] glx22 commented on pull request #7003: Feature #6918: Add option to adjust font size separately from GUI size. https://git.io/fhnj7 15:52:04 <Samu> this is a lie https://blogs.msdn.microsoft.com/visualstudio/2016/02/15/analyze-cpu-memory-while-debugging/ 15:52:13 <Samu> i always get no code was run during selected time range 16:00:49 <peter1138> Hmm, on my old server, I have an svn checkout from 2009 that contains patches to increase the cargo limit to 64... 16:12:24 <Sacro> I have many old files 16:12:37 <Sacro> Like the MiniIN 16:14:06 <DorpsGek_II> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] gregcarlin updated pull request #7003: Feature #6918: Add option to adjust font size separately from GUI size. https://git.io/fhLFX 16:14:16 <peter1138> Heh 16:14:28 <peter1138> Simulation rate: 34.30 frames/s 16:14:32 <peter1138> Hmm, seems fast :/ 16:15:09 *** WWacko1976-work has quit IRC 16:16:48 <DorpsGek_II> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] gregcarlin commented on pull request #7003: Feature #6918: Add option to adjust font size separately from GUI size. https://git.io/fhce5 16:16:53 <peter1138> 1.02x 16:20:39 <Sacro> Running it in NTSC? 16:20:44 <peter1138> heh 16:20:58 <peter1138> It is running in a VM though. 16:21:08 <peter1138> Urgh, why is window resizing so broken. 16:21:19 <peter1138> Oh I remember, SDL doesn't technically support it. 16:21:36 <peter1138> It recreates the window every time. Some window managers cope. 16:31:19 *** GroovyNoodle has joined #openttd 16:44:48 *** Progman has joined #openttd 16:54:54 *** Alberth has joined #openttd 16:54:54 *** ChanServ sets mode: +o Alberth 16:58:34 <peter1138> Urgh, I really show clean up my stashes. 16:59:21 <peter1138> show -> should 16:59:57 <nielsm> status: https://0x0.st/shsw.png 17:01:08 <Samu> the slower part of yapf is memset ? 17:01:12 <Samu> I dont get this 17:03:28 <peter1138> nielsm, nice. 17:03:41 <nielsm> Samu: means it spends a lot of time zeroing memory, I guess 17:05:17 <nielsm> reversing little programs like this is an oddly fun kind of puzzle 17:06:09 <nielsm> taking guesses at what some things are/do, then try building a skeleton program for that, then deriving some more meaning from the original, blindly re-implementing code you don't understand, and then slowly getting to an understanding 17:06:18 <nielsm> I'm sure you can get better at it with practice :) 17:07:08 <peter1138> Surely you just try something once, realise it doesn't work, keeping try, still doesn't work, then give up and move on to something else? 17:07:41 *** GroovyNoodle has quit IRC 17:09:02 <Samu> in debug mode these times are skewed 17:11:48 <Samu> what takes 2.5 secs in release mode takes 40 secs in debug mode 17:12:58 *** GroovyNoodle has joined #openttd 17:16:22 <peter1138> That's because it's a debug build. 17:17:29 <Samu> https://imgur.com/FcpS2Zd 17:17:39 <Samu> sending 5000 ships to depots with NPF 17:18:03 <Samu> takes a spike of 14,112 s selected 17:18:16 <Samu> I'm not sure where to look at 17:19:36 <Eddi|zuHause> <peter1138> Hmm, on my old server, I have an svn checkout from 2009 that contains patches to increase the cargo limit to 64... <-- to whom should that be a surprise? 17:23:00 *** Thedarkb1-T60 has joined #openttd 17:23:08 <peter1138> ) 17:23:09 <peter1138> :) 17:30:03 <peter1138> Hmm, got a stash here that attempts to implement a path cache for ships. 17:30:59 <Samu> i was able to filter out memset stuff 17:31:34 <Samu> https://imgur.com/a/TWnoS92 top - npf, middle - opf, bottom - yapf 17:31:52 <Samu> ah, memset was only shown on debug mode, i guess 17:32:44 <Samu> i'm still unsure what numbers are important 17:33:55 <Eddi|zuHause> i'm sure there were more people who attempted ship pathfinder optimisations 17:34:38 *** Gja has joined #openttd 17:35:27 <Eddi|zuHause> hm, now even "Der Spiegel" is citing xkcd 17:36:11 <Eddi|zuHause> (that's one of the largest news magazines and one of the largest news websites in germany) 17:37:08 <Samu> the slower part of NPF is BinaryHeap::Delete and Has 17:37:12 <Samu> Hash::FindNode 17:37:53 <Samu> doesn't look like stuff I should care about 17:38:00 <nielsm> Eddi|zuHause, correct horse battery stable? 17:38:34 <Eddi|zuHause> nielsm: no, it's about protein folding, and they cited the "now imagine folding a live one" 17:39:01 <Eddi|zuHause> http://xkcd.com/1430/ 17:42:43 <Samu> the slow part is queue.cpp, I never touched this file 17:42:52 <Samu> dont even know for sure what's doing 17:43:15 <nielsm> it's a data structure for a priority queue, I believe 17:43:28 <Samu> it has BinaryHeap and Hash 17:43:30 *** Wormnest has quit IRC 17:44:15 <Samu> BinaryHeap sounds familiar, I had that thing on my AI, and switched to Fibonacci 17:44:17 <nielsm> and it's likely the part that takes up the most time because stuffing elements into a queue and taking them out again might be the basis of the algorithm 17:45:07 <Samu> now, i dunno anything about the hash 17:46:20 <Samu> There's nothing I can do here then :( 17:48:48 <Samu> * Deletes the item from the queue. priority should be specified if 17:48:48 <Samu> * known, which speeds up the deleting for some queue's. Should be -1 17:48:48 <Samu> * if not known. 17:49:01 <Samu> that's a funny comment, it ends being the slowest part of NPF 17:49:21 <Samu> bool BinaryHeap::Delete(void *item, int priority) 17:49:30 <Samu> ok, enough of this 17:49:36 <peter1138> Don't bother trying to optimise NPF. YAPF exists for a reason. 17:50:03 <Samu> yapf was the fastest 17:50:09 <peter1138> Odd that! 17:50:12 <Samu> thx for yapf 17:50:15 <Samu> maker 17:50:46 <Samu> and yesterday I just shoved off 10 seconds from opf 17:50:57 <Samu> with that code update 18:10:33 *** Wolf01 has joined #openttd 18:11:03 <Wolf01> o/ 18:13:44 *** Alberth has left #openttd 18:14:17 *** acklen_ has joined #openttd 18:14:19 *** acklen has quit IRC 18:14:28 *** Laedek has joined #openttd 18:15:10 <Wolf01> Mmmh, I think it's a bit that I don't visit the forum... 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18:31:07 *** zuzak has joined #openttd 18:31:07 *** Exec has joined #openttd 18:31:07 *** KenjiE20 has joined #openttd 18:31:07 *** DorpsGek_II has joined #openttd 18:31:07 *** MasseR has joined #openttd 18:31:07 *** tyteen4a03 has joined #openttd 18:31:09 *** orudge` has joined #openttd 18:32:13 *** argoneus has quit IRC 18:32:26 <DorpsGek_II> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] andythenorth commented on issue #4115: Default company color setting https://git.io/fhcfh 18:32:32 *** HerzogDeXtEr has quit IRC 18:32:32 *** tokai|noir has quit IRC 18:32:37 *** V453000 has quit IRC 18:32:40 *** crem has quit IRC 18:32:42 *** SmatZ has quit IRC 18:32:43 *** andythenorth has joined #openttd 18:32:47 *** orudge has quit IRC 18:32:52 *** Yotson has quit IRC 18:32:54 *** SpComb has quit IRC 18:32:57 *** Progman has quit IRC 18:32:57 *** Yexo has quit IRC 18:33:02 *** planetmaker has quit IRC 18:33:56 *** Eddi|zuHause2 is now known as Eddi|zuHause 18:34:27 <andythenorth> o/ 18:35:29 *** ericnoan has joined #openttd 18:35:37 *** V453000 has joined #openttd 18:35:59 *** planetmaker has joined #openttd 18:35:59 *** ChanServ sets mode: +o planetmaker 18:36:07 *** SmatZ has joined #openttd 18:36:37 *** Yexo has joined #openttd 18:37:55 *** Yotson has joined #openttd 18:40:18 <andythenorth> I did a terrible thing 18:41:08 <Samu> to repent, test my pr's 18:41:24 <Eddi|zuHause> how could you! 18:41:51 <andythenorth> I went onto LinkedIn 18:41:57 *** Progman has joined #openttd 18:42:28 <andythenorth> then...I messaged Yexo in it 18:43:00 <LordAro> :o 18:43:03 <andythenorth> peter1138: yo 18:43:22 <LordAro> andythenorth: any particular purpose? 18:43:28 <andythenorth> LordAro: none at all 18:43:46 <andythenorth> my favourite things to do have no purpose 18:44:09 <nnyby> haha same i feel 18:47:09 <LordAro> andythenorth: excellent 18:48:42 <Samu> i have some patches here that i'm scared to PR 18:48:56 <Samu> because I know already they're not gonna be accepted 18:49:03 <Samu> but they are done :( 18:50:25 <peter1138> Yo? 18:50:56 <Samu> https://github.com/OpenTTD/OpenTTD/compare/master...SamuXarick:DistanceTransportedGoodsIncome 18:51:05 <Samu> for example that one 18:52:44 <andythenorth> peter1138: open source clone of Chocks Away? I could ask him if he wants to help.... https://www.linkedin.com/in/andrew-hutchings-8820346/ 18:53:19 <nielsm> some of the code this compiler has generated is completely baffling... "and al, 0FFh" 18:53:19 <peter1138> Requires me to sign in. 18:53:32 <nielsm> al is a byte register, and'ing it with FFh is a no-op 18:53:41 <peter1138> nielsm, sets CPU registers though, no? 18:53:58 <nielsm> touching al should not touch ah 18:54:01 <peter1138> Dunno though. 18:54:06 <andythenorth> nielsm: LinkedIn such very evil 18:54:07 <nielsm> though it should clear the top 16 bits of eax 18:54:20 * andythenorth wonders if MS will merge LinkedIn and github 18:54:26 <andythenorth> it's the obvious step 18:54:46 <nielsm> GitIn 18:55:00 <peter1138> nielsm, I mean the FLAGS register. I dunno if it does. 18:55:05 <andythenorth> free recruiter spam with every PR 18:55:21 <nielsm> yeah no, the next thing it does it pushing ax to set up a function call 18:56:19 <dwfreed> nielsm: https://stackoverflow.com/a/45362396 18:57:11 <Samu> theres microphone support on openttd now= 18:58:01 <Samu> something from X Audio? 18:58:51 <nielsm> dwfreed: honestly I should just stop being shocked that a C compiler from 1994 (or earlier) generates bad code 19:00:07 <nielsm> Samu: no, xaudio is only used for sound out, as an alternative to dsound on windows 19:00:22 <nielsm> (because it makes it easier to port to UWP or something) 19:03:39 <Samu> Severity Code Description Project File Line Suppression State 19:03:39 <Samu> Warning C4146 unary minus operator applied to unsigned type, result still unsigned (compiling source file ..\src\map.cpp) openttd d:\openttd\openttd github\openttd\src\core\math_func.hpp 85 19:03:53 <Samu> this wasn't here yesterday 19:05:35 <Samu> gonna try rebuild all 19:05:42 <Samu> getting weird errors 19:07:22 <Samu> identifier "uint" is undefined? 19:08:49 <Samu> it built now 19:08:58 <Samu> sorry all, false alarm 19:13:16 *** reldred has quit IRC 19:13:16 *** heffer has quit IRC 19:13:17 *** ToBeFree has quit IRC 19:13:17 *** Smedles has quit IRC 19:13:17 *** APTX has quit IRC 19:13:17 *** techmagus has quit IRC 19:13:17 *** k-man has quit IRC 19:13:17 *** daspork has quit IRC 19:13:17 *** snail_UES_ has quit IRC 19:13:17 *** cHawk has quit IRC 19:13:17 *** Maarten has quit IRC 19:13:17 *** HeyCitizen has quit IRC 19:13:17 *** Vadtec has quit IRC 19:13:17 *** Antheus has quit IRC 19:13:17 *** dwfreed has quit IRC 19:13:17 *** Laedek has quit IRC 19:13:17 *** acklen_ has quit IRC 19:13:17 *** AKTheKnight has quit IRC 19:13:17 *** wodencafe has quit IRC 19:13:17 *** jinks has quit IRC 19:13:17 *** rocky11384497 has quit IRC 19:13:17 *** greeter has quit IRC 19:13:17 *** quiznilo has quit IRC 19:13:17 *** innocenat_ has quit IRC 19:13:17 *** 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joined #openttd 19:13:36 *** innocenat_ has joined #openttd 19:13:36 *** quiznilo has joined #openttd 19:13:36 *** greeter has joined #openttd 19:13:36 *** rocky11384497 has joined #openttd 19:13:36 *** jinks has joined #openttd 19:13:36 *** nnyby has joined #openttd 19:13:36 *** wodencafe has joined #openttd 19:13:36 *** AKTheKnight has joined #openttd 19:13:36 *** acklen_ has joined #openttd 19:13:36 *** Laedek has joined #openttd 19:13:36 *** dwfreed has joined #openttd 19:13:36 *** daspork has joined #openttd 19:13:36 *** Smedles has joined #openttd 19:13:36 *** APTX has joined #openttd 19:13:36 *** techmagus has joined #openttd 19:13:39 <Samu> i failed to do a push --force 19:13:45 <Samu> bah 19:13:54 <Samu> became a merge 19:14:07 *** heffer has joined #openttd 19:14:07 *** ToBeFree has joined #openttd 19:14:07 *** reldred has joined #openttd 19:16:48 <Wolf01> I failed to raise my kitten, became a dog :D 19:16:55 <andythenorth> fair comment 19:17:10 <andythenorth> so...Horse 19:17:27 <andythenorth> EMUs: same speed as DMUs, or same speed as electric pax engines? 19:17:43 <andythenorth> [Horse has two speed classes - normal and express] 19:17:54 <Wolf01> No, for real, it brings back what you throw and can be brought outside with a leash 19:19:25 <andythenorth> ha 19:19:26 <nielsm> EMUs same speed as DMUs but better acceleration 19:19:38 <andythenorth> nielsm: yeah that's what I coded 19:19:47 *** k-man has joined #openttd 19:19:51 <andythenorth> ok 19:20:46 <Samu> how do i do a git push --force on visual studio? 19:21:03 <Samu> team explorer 19:21:28 <Samu> Sync wasn't it, turned out it was a merge 19:23:47 * andythenorth builds in a BAD EGG 19:23:52 <andythenorth> it's like a BAD FEATURE 19:25:28 *** gelignite has joined #openttd 19:29:13 <Samu> how do i delete a branch and leave no trace about it? 19:29:22 <andythenorth> branch -D generally 19:29:29 <andythenorth> but read the scm pages first 19:29:31 <Samu> i was only experimenting 19:29:38 <andythenorth> https://git-scm.com/doc 19:29:58 <Samu> now i see some of my old deleted branches still listed as "deleted" 19:30:26 <andythenorth> dunno 19:30:30 <andythenorth> :) 19:38:28 <Samu> github.com doesn't really delete my stuff 19:38:52 <andythenorth> branch -D, force push 19:38:55 <andythenorth> usually considered rude 19:38:56 <andythenorth> but eh 19:38:57 <Samu> it leaves it hiden somewhere, allowing me to restore later 19:39:26 <Samu> it's stuff already implemented, so i dont need to keep these branches 19:40:12 <Samu> Team Explorer on visual studio apparently deletes them for good 19:43:00 <Samu> https://github.com/SamuXarick/OpenTTD/branches/all?page=1 good, they're gone 19:49:14 *** GroovyNoodle has quit IRC 19:52:54 <Samu> always commits ahead and commits behind :( 19:53:17 <Samu> do I have to rebase everyday force -push all the time? 19:54:23 <DorpsGek_II> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] LordAro approved pull request #6784: Ship cpu hog workaround for #6145 https://git.io/fhcqA 19:55:16 <LordAro> Samu: in practice, you only need to rebase when something else interferes with something that you've done 19:55:37 <Samu> wow there's more ppl working on ship stuff 19:55:55 <Samu> ah, i see 19:56:15 <LordAro> i.e. if misc_gui.cpp has been modified in master, and you've been fiddling with pathfinders, they're unlikely to interfere 19:56:52 <LordAro> but these interactions aren't easy to see in advance, so it's best practice to rebase often 19:57:10 <DorpsGek_II> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] LordAro merged pull request #6784: Ship cpu hog workaround for #6145 https://git.io/vpxjO 19:57:23 *** Wormnest has joined #openttd 19:57:28 <DorpsGek_II> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] LordAro commented on issue #6145: High CPU usage for ships with empty orders https://git.io/fhcmI 19:57:29 <DorpsGek_II> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] LordAro closed issue #6145: High CPU usage for ships with empty orders https://git.io/fhcmL 19:57:43 <Samu> those changes look scary as heck 19:57:45 <Samu> rip ships 19:57:51 <LordAro> haha 19:57:58 *** GroovyNoodle has joined #openttd 19:58:44 <LordAro> as an example, the above will definitely interfere with the stuff you've been playing with :) 19:59:04 <glx> and you also rebase if you need to add something to the PR, but rebase just to rebase is useless 19:59:51 <Samu> if (v->dest_tile == 0 || DistanceManhattan(tile, v->dest_tile) > SHIP_MAX_ORDER_DISTANCE + 5) { using distance manhattan like this is gonna be a disaster waiting to happen, but let me test 20:00:24 <glx> "add something" as a new commit, or an modified commit 20:00:32 <LordAro> Samu: why do you think so? 20:00:41 <LordAro> distance manhattan is a very simple calculation 20:00:58 <Samu> the pathfinder may find a path that makes the ship move the opposite direction 20:01:15 <glx> yes if it's shorter 20:01:17 <Samu> if the distancemanhattan check triggers.... rip ship 20:03:22 <LordAro> it was discussed in the PR (or possibly here) - you already can't set orders further than SHIP_MAX_ORDER_DISTANCE apart, so it shouldn't make any difference 20:04:13 <LordAro> but you're welcome to test these things 20:04:29 <LordAro> (or indeed, comment on PRs) 20:04:59 <andythenorth> but the video here is awesome https://github.com/OpenTTD/OpenTTD/issues/6145#issuecomment-379453516 20:05:54 <LordAro> hehe 20:06:20 <LordAro> i am actually curious what would happen if you try to send to depot when the nearest depot is > 130 tiles away 20:07:07 <andythenorth> easy to test 20:07:37 <LordAro> *hopefully* it will say "cannot find depot", rather than just stopping the ship 20:07:47 *** GroovyNoodle has quit IRC 20:17:00 *** GroovyNoodle has joined #openttd 20:17:50 <andythenorth> BAD EASTER 20:18:00 * andythenorth realises simple things aren't simple :P 20:18:10 <andythenorth> cb36 loops are banned for obvious reasons 20:22:11 *** Wormnest has quit IRC 20:33:52 *** GroovyNoodle has quit IRC 20:35:39 <DorpsGek_II> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] J0anJosep updated pull request #7056: Change #6060: Allow drawing dropdown lists with scrollbars above and fix scrolling movement https://git.io/fhnon 20:36:48 <DorpsGek_II> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] J0anJosep commented on pull request #7056: Change #6060: Allow drawing dropdown lists with scrollbars above and fix scrolling movement https://git.io/fhc3S 20:38:30 <DorpsGek_II> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] LordAro commented on pull request #7056: Change #6060: Allow drawing dropdown lists with scrollbars above and fix scrolling movement https://git.io/fhc3F 20:40:14 <DorpsGek_II> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] LordAro commented on pull request #7056: Change #6060: Allow drawing dropdown lists with scrollbars above and fix scrolling movement https://git.io/fhcsI 20:43:03 *** GroovyNoodle has joined #openttd 20:46:52 *** frosch123 has joined #openttd 20:56:05 <andythenorth> quak 20:56:16 <LordAro> quark 20:56:19 <frosch123> moo 20:58:57 *** GroovyNoodle has quit IRC 21:04:32 *** Webster` has joined #openttd 21:04:47 *** urdh_ has joined #openttd 21:05:08 <DorpsGek_II> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] LordAro commented on pull request #7056: Change #6060: Allow drawing dropdown lists with scrollbars above and fix scrolling movement https://git.io/fhcZY 21:05:19 <nielsm> most important purpose of the dev console in a browser: fixing pages with eye-searing styling 21:05:39 *** Thedarkb2-T60 has joined #openttd 21:06:08 <nielsm> this OPL3 reference page (despite it being OPL2 this is programming) was blue background white text, and any time after reading for more than 10 seconds my eyes would blank over when I turned to something else 21:06:27 *** gnu_jj_ has joined #openttd 21:06:29 <LordAro> ouch 21:07:22 *** Heili has joined #openttd 21:07:50 *** gelignite has quit IRC 21:07:50 *** Yotson has quit IRC 21:07:50 *** Yexo has quit IRC 21:07:50 *** OsteHovel has quit IRC 21:07:50 *** Samu has quit IRC 21:07:50 *** Thedarkb1-T60 has quit IRC 21:07:50 *** HerzogDeXtEr1 has quit IRC 21:07:50 *** Eddi|zuHause has quit IRC 21:07:50 *** urdh has quit IRC 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#openttd 21:09:22 *** ChanServ sets mode: +v michi_cc 21:09:35 *** eirc has joined #openttd 21:10:07 *** avdg has joined #openttd 21:11:07 *** fonsinchen has joined #openttd 21:11:08 *** sla_ro|master has quit IRC 21:11:14 *** Taede has joined #openttd 21:11:14 *** Yotson has joined #openttd 21:11:26 *** OsteHovel has joined #openttd 21:12:23 <DorpsGek_II> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] J0anJosep commented on pull request #7056: Change #6060: Allow drawing dropdown lists with scrollbars above and fix scrolling movement https://git.io/fhcZ9 21:12:37 *** gelignite has joined #openttd 21:14:15 <DorpsGek_II> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] LordAro commented on pull request #7056: Change #6060: Allow drawing dropdown lists with scrollbars above and fix scrolling movement https://git.io/fhcZd 21:15:31 *** DorpsGek has joined #openttd 21:15:31 *** ChanServ sets mode: +o DorpsGek 21:17:51 *** gelignite has quit IRC 21:27:57 <glx> ok mingw-w64 command line limit is 32000, the depand command with args but without source files is 8312, source files list is 25155 21:28:14 <glx> not surprising the command line is too long 21:29:25 <glx> and I filtered out all non -D from CFLAGS and CXXFLAGS 21:30:06 *** Eddi|zuHause2 is now known as Eddi|zuHause 21:30:22 <Eddi|zuHause> why would you even build a command line this huge and expect it to work? 21:30:33 <glx> makefile does it 21:30:40 <LordAro> glx: i've not seen anything like that, how long are your paths? 21:30:57 <glx> D:/developpement/GitHub/glx22/OpenTTD/src/ 21:31:11 <glx> not short 21:31:42 *** Gja has quit IRC 21:31:51 <glx> 399 files in the list ;) 21:31:59 <Eddi|zuHause> not short, but also not excessively long 21:32:19 <Eddi|zuHause> my "ancient DOS tricks" tells me you might want to try "subst" :p 21:33:03 <glx> I think I can use $(words) and friends to split in smaller parts 21:33:26 <glx> depend seems to have a -a flag for appending 21:34:52 *** Thedarkb2-T60 has quit IRC 21:35:30 <Eddi|zuHause> i would put my effort in trying to reduce the number of arguments 21:35:47 <glx> not possible 21:35:49 <Eddi|zuHause> like calling it in a loop 21:35:56 <Eddi|zuHause> once for each file 21:35:57 <Eddi|zuHause> or something 21:36:08 <nielsm> xargs does this afaik? 21:36:25 <glx> ha yes that's why I intended to use $(word) and $(wordlist) 21:36:49 <Eddi|zuHause> i don't know what abyss you're delving into, though 21:36:57 <glx> something like http://softwareswirl.blogspot.com/2009/10/gnu-make-trick-for-handling-long-lists.html 21:37:17 <LordAro> depend may want altering to use a file listing inputs or something 21:37:51 <Eddi|zuHause> yeah, put the names into a file, and read that? 21:38:14 <LordAro> it's the less hacky solution, anyway 21:38:17 <LordAro> imo 21:41:16 *** Progman has quit IRC 21:45:05 <glx> modifying depend could work, but as it's also possible to use makedepend it's not the solution 21:45:49 *** APTX_ has joined #openttd 21:47:06 *** APTX has quit IRC 21:50:05 *** Wolf01 has quit IRC 21:50:37 *** Thedarkb2-T60 has joined #openttd 21:54:44 *** frosch123 has quit IRC 21:55:34 <Samu> just tested 21:55:41 <Samu> it's not good 21:56:36 <Samu> distance manhattan is the reason why pathfinders get lost 21:57:00 <Samu> this ship i'm testing is currently not invoking the pathfinder 21:57:12 <Samu> it is a miracle it still finds its way to destination 21:58:00 <Samu> goes forward, reaches the map border, makes some turns, reaches the other map border, and it finally gets moving in a direction that will make the pathfinder be invoked again 21:58:22 <nielsm> someone should be using more buoys 21:58:24 <Samu> then it gets to its destination, after doing some weird turns 21:59:45 <LordAro> mm 22:00:17 <Samu> i'm not sure, it doesn't feel right 22:00:50 <Samu> but yeah, buoys being the solution for ships :( 22:04:16 <Samu> buoys could be abused :( but i kind of like the idea of buoys being a guidance for pathfinders 22:06:04 <Samu> gonna try making buoys a negative penalty, essentially turning them into a bonus 22:07:08 <LordAro> that's unlikely to improve pathfinder performance, if that's what you're trying 22:08:46 <Samu> let me test 22:11:52 <Samu> oh, it's a npf exclusive feature 22:11:55 <Samu> very well 22:12:04 <Samu> i thought yapf had it 22:13:48 <Samu> doesn't let me add negative values 22:13:50 <Samu> boo 22:14:28 <LordAro> heh 22:15:43 <Samu> cost -= _settings_game.pf.npf.npf_buoy_penalty; // A small /*penalty */ bonus for going over buoys 22:15:52 <Samu> let's see 22:16:04 <nielsm> oh, I think I'm almost code complete for the adlib music decoder, except for a bunch of static tables I need to copy over 22:17:42 <Samu> doesn't work 22:18:21 <Samu> aystar asserts warning me that new_g > 0 failed 22:18:36 <milek7> hm 22:18:40 <milek7> i commited git merge 22:18:42 <milek7> and now i want to undo it and perform conflict resolution of single file again 22:20:11 <milek7> but reset will obviously throw away all changes 22:20:36 <LordAro> rebase! 22:20:48 <Eddi|zuHause> yeah, modifying commits is rebase 22:20:52 <LordAro> alternatively, reset --soft 22:21:07 <LordAro> if the commit is still local 22:21:13 <Samu> i use the recycle bin 22:21:18 <Samu> and clone again 22:21:22 <Samu> works everytime 22:21:30 <LordAro> good ol' Samu 22:21:57 <Samu> if i want to go back to stuff I had, i take it back from recycle bin 22:22:47 <milek7> ok, maybe reset to before merge, start merge, checkout good files from new commit, resolve bad file and commit 22:23:30 <LordAro> milek7: that's probably what i'd do 22:28:31 <Eddi|zuHause> you don't need reset if you rebase 22:29:05 <Eddi|zuHause> just carefully consider what the target of the rebase is 22:29:07 <LordAro> Eddi|zuHause: except in this case you're literally removing a commit, rebase isn't the right solution 22:29:33 <Eddi|zuHause> in a rebase you can drop a commit 22:30:01 <LordAro> you can, but eh 22:33:39 <peter1138> Evenig 22:33:50 <Samu> hi 22:34:05 <LordAro> o/ 22:34:08 <peter1138> 22:20 < milek7> but reset will obviously throw away all changes 22:34:12 <peter1138> ^ it doesn't 22:36:25 <milek7> it won't allow me to use merge with dirty working tree after soft/mixed, and i wanted to get file with conflict markers again 22:39:07 *** andythenorth has quit IRC 22:39:23 <nielsm> will it crash or burn, or will sound actually be produced??? 22:39:26 <nielsm> time to try it 22:39:55 <nielsm> nothing happens :D 22:40:02 <nielsm> at least nothing audible or visual 22:40:11 <peter1138> Samu, I didn't aim to improve pathfinder performance because that's a hard task. I aimed to prevent some situations that cause massive CPU usage from occuring. (But not all) 22:42:16 <nielsm> yeah I forgot to call Start on the driver :P 22:42:24 <peter1138> Heh 22:42:39 <LordAro> heh 22:45:08 <Samu> just decreate max number of nodes 22:45:45 <Samu> it's defaulted to 10000, maybe 5000? dunno 22:45:54 <LordAro> "just" 22:46:01 <Samu> :p 22:46:34 <Samu> or maybe, an idea 22:46:45 <Samu> have the pathfinder invoked on order insertion 22:47:09 <Samu> let it decide whether destination is too far 22:48:15 <Samu> hmm 22:49:39 <Samu> would kill opf 22:49:59 <LordAro> few would mourn its loss 22:50:51 <peter1138> So there is a remaining CPU hog issue. 22:51:23 <peter1138> Trying to find a path to a tile that is within the max distance but actually not reachable causes a hitch. 22:52:24 <LordAro> presumably because it's searching the whole map? 22:52:34 <peter1138> I wonder how many new bug reports #6784 will cause :D 22:52:42 <LordAro> ono 22:52:59 <peter1138> Not the whole map but enough. And it'll happen on every new tile. 22:53:15 <LordAro> oof 22:53:28 <peter1138> Well, that's why ship pathfinding already sucks. 22:53:31 <peter1138> It happens on every new tile. 22:53:41 <peter1138> Hence I have a patch to cache paths, but it's very much WIP. 22:53:45 <LordAro> that does seem inefficient 22:54:09 <LordAro> i was thinking that it should cache paths, then follow them until there's something in the way 22:54:23 <peter1138> Yup. 22:55:00 <peter1138> https://github.com/OpenTTD/OpenTTD/commit/b98887c4a014d5bc193b0c1089b3ac0334187775 < "solves" a lot 22:55:02 <nielsm> if it's within range but no path could be found, set a counter that indicates "temporarily lost" and random walk until that counter reaches zero? 22:55:10 <nielsm> and/or send a news message 22:55:41 <LordAro> would still cause a hitch every n tiles 22:55:43 <peter1138> It spreads the load out, so you don't get 5000 pathfinding attempts in one tick. 22:56:00 <LordAro> some sort of limit on the pathfinder would work 22:56:14 <peter1138> There's a distance limit already, iirc. 22:56:26 <peter1138> Or at least, there is now :) 22:56:29 <Samu> have you tried my ship pathfinding depot stuff yet? 22:56:36 <Eddi|zuHause> the main problem with the ship pathfinder is the large number of near-identical paths 22:57:03 <peter1138> Hmm, yes, if it's with-in range, I'm not sure how far the pathfinder will actually go. 22:57:06 <Eddi|zuHause> the second problem is that it is repeated on every tile, as every tile is a junction 22:57:33 <LordAro> peter1138: yeah, referring to your "within range but unreachable" case 22:57:41 <peter1138> Yeah, sorry, sidetracked. 22:58:01 <peter1138> Hmm, we could do with a way to cancel a "Manage list" -> "Send to Depot" command. 22:58:01 <Eddi|zuHause> and "no path exists" is always the worst case for a pathfinder 22:59:58 <peter1138> I think my changes my scupper Samu's testing :p 23:00:02 <peter1138> *may 23:00:05 <Samu> i like the idea of caching path 23:00:21 <peter1138> That's what I asked you to attempt to do last year. 23:00:26 <Samu> keep working on it, it was also something I had in mind, but with limited code skills I didn't bother 23:00:37 <peter1138> heh 23:00:57 <peter1138> I think it did actually sort of work, but kept crashing. 23:03:02 <LordAro> i think pathfinder limit of x5 order length limit would work? (i.e. if the points are at max distance: https://i.imgur.com/qLkK2Fu.png ) 23:03:15 * LordAro is better at paint than andy 23:04:24 <peter1138> Just make ships behave like triremes in civilization. If they get lost, they actually get lost, and disappear... 23:04:32 <LordAro> :D 23:05:00 <peter1138> o_O ... this patch adds a std::stack<Trackdir> path to struct Ship. 23:05:10 <peter1138> Well I can try it :) 23:05:16 <LordAro> ha 23:05:41 <LordAro> well, depends on its usage :p 23:09:00 <nielsm> okay well, now it does _something_: https://0x0.st/shoR.webm 23:09:06 <Samu> er, i made a review, maybe i wanted to post single comment, my bad 23:09:10 <nielsm> as the name says, it's very original 23:09:29 <LordAro> Samu: is fine either way 23:09:37 <peter1138> Nice tremolo attect. 23:09:39 <peter1138> affect... 23:09:42 <LordAro> Samu: you do have to submit the review though 23:09:50 <peter1138> I only had one pint, I don't think it's alcohol making me typo. 23:10:16 <Eddi|zuHause> well, "ad libitum" means "do what you want" :p 23:10:21 <LordAro> nielsm: well it's not complete garbage :p 23:10:26 <DorpsGek_II> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] SamuXarick commented on pull request #6784: Ship cpu hog workaround for #6145 https://git.io/fhcEN 23:10:34 <Samu> ah there it is 23:10:41 <nielsm> LordAro, ship it? 23:10:47 <peter1138> Little bit late after it's been merged. 23:10:56 <LordAro> nielsm: damn right 23:11:15 <LordAro> Samu: commenting on merged PRs is rarely worthwhile 23:11:30 <LordAro> possibly better off making an issue 23:11:31 <peter1138> Open an issue referencing the PR. 23:11:48 <Samu> pl 23:11:49 <Samu> ok 23:12:33 <nielsm> pushed to my adlib-music branch :3 23:12:43 <nielsm> and now I see the time is past midnight 23:12:45 <peter1138> push early, push often 23:12:48 <peter1138> It's not, it's 23:12 23:13:10 <nielsm> it's later than I ought to be in bed 23:13:33 <peter1138> Pfft, have a cup of tea. It's your witching hour, where good ideas come to fruition. 23:13:47 <peter1138> I'm cheating, I have fennel tea. 23:14:07 * LordAro looks at his mug 23:14:15 <LordAro> oh hey, still some tea in here 23:14:21 * LordAro necks it 23:14:26 <LordAro> mm, stone cold tea 23:14:36 <peter1138> I must remember to not actually drink caffeine after, say, 2 or 3pm. 23:14:52 <peter1138> Weirdly, stone cold tea isn't too bad to drink *when you're expecting it* 23:15:15 <LordAro> that's probably how i'd describe it :p 23:15:26 <LordAro> i have a tendency to forget my tea 23:15:47 <Eddi|zuHause> call it "ice tea"? 23:16:20 <peter1138> Iced tea with... milk. Hmm... 23:16:29 <DorpsGek_II> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] SamuXarick opened issue #7062: Ship wasn't lost in 1.8.0 https://git.io/fhcuR 23:16:31 <peter1138> LordAro, same. Especially as I have a bucket mugg too. 23:16:44 <Samu> sorry, i'm terrible at using the website 23:16:53 <peter1138> -g 23:17:01 <LordAro> Samu: use your words 23:17:06 <LordAro> that issue doesn't say anything at all 23:17:08 * peter1138 ponders replying to #7062, or playing Minecraft. 23:17:13 <LordAro> and relies on context that's only here 23:17:33 <peter1138> Wow, yeah, that's terrible. 23:17:53 <LordAro> Samu: the detail you use when responding to comments on your PRs is excellent, use that 23:17:58 <Samu> i dont know how to link stuff with each other 23:18:09 <peter1138> No need to link. Just write text. 23:18:15 <peter1138> Add some detail 23:18:28 <peter1138> Where were you trying to do. What happened. What did you expect? 23:18:35 <LordAro> https://help.github.com/articles/autolinked-references-and-urls/ but also this 23:19:00 <peter1138> Oh it's raining in Minecraft :/ 23:19:20 <peter1138> And your title is bogus. 23:19:35 <peter1138> It should say what is happening now, not what wasn't happening in some older version. 23:20:17 <Eddi|zuHause> for some reason when it's raining in minecraft i have the urge to go fishing 23:20:23 <peter1138> Erm... 23:20:34 <peter1138> You realise I literally just picked up my fishing rod... 23:21:07 <Eddi|zuHause> i pulled a crazy good bow out with the fishing rod 23:21:16 <Samu> i'm blocked, can't think properly 23:21:47 <Eddi|zuHause> and after updating beyond 1.8 i could even repair it 23:22:21 <peter1138> I'm always on latest release. 23:22:39 <Samu> is this a better edit? 23:23:00 <LordAro> still needs more detail 23:23:02 <Eddi|zuHause> well, that was the latest release back then 23:23:10 <Eddi|zuHause> i don't play often 23:25:01 <Samu> i think im gonna copy paste irc text 23:25:15 <Samu> can't think properly 23:25:17 <LordAro> Samu: pictures are more helpful than savegames as well 23:27:18 <Samu> ok 23:27:35 <LordAro> well, sometimes 23:27:44 <LordAro> not to say that the savegame isn't useful 23:28:06 <peter1138> Damn it, I keep picking up... fish. 23:28:21 <peter1138> Oh and two water bottles. Nothing interesting :( 23:32:18 <Samu> some of the AIs in this situation would mass even more ships 23:32:30 <Samu> Trans or otvi 23:32:40 <Samu> they would all be lost 23:35:19 <Samu> because there's more cargo waiting at stations 23:35:57 <Samu> when the ship comes back, it reinvokes the pathfinder 23:36:02 <Samu> and gets lost again 23:37:33 <Samu> thx for the edit LardAro 23:37:37 <Samu> LordAro 23:39:52 <Samu> the only solution is path cache 23:39:59 <Samu> (i think) 23:40:46 <Samu> a means to avoid pathfinder being called every tile 23:42:43 <LordAro> as well as removing the manhattan check, i can see that working 23:42:50 <LordAro> caching the paths would improve things generally 23:44:50 <peter1138> The issue is actually that the orders should be invalid. 23:44:57 <peter1138> Buoys are necessary. 23:45:41 <peter1138> 22:46 < Samu> have the pathfinder invoked on order insertion 23:45:54 <peter1138> Would help... 23:46:10 <peter1138> But not if the map is changed later. 23:46:37 <peter1138> The ship is lost because its destination is too far. You need buoys. 23:46:47 *** nielsm has quit IRC 23:47:31 <LordAro> peter1138: but if the order was valid beforehand... 23:47:42 <LordAro> it would be a shame to break saves like that 23:47:54 <peter1138> It's not valid, it just worked because we didn't check properly. 23:48:27 <peter1138> Of course you can remove that check, but then you get performance hits again. 23:48:42 * LordAro is reminded of a Linus "never break userland" rant 23:49:25 <Samu> it does comes back into range only to have the pathfinder make him lost again 23:49:53 <Samu> so, buoys :( 23:51:13 <peter1138> Were always necessary in this situation 23:51:29 <Samu> nop, it's not lost in 1.8.0 23:51:47 <peter1138> Not what I meant. 23:51:54 <LordAro> peter1138: well, they were only necessary because of the bad pathfinder 23:52:36 <Samu> i think the savegame is 1.8.0 compatible 23:53:22 <peter1138> LordAro, of course, in this particular map the pathfinder wouldn't have too much trouble. 23:53:34 <peter1138> Open spaces of water is the issue. 23:54:09 <LordAro> how hard would it be to make the pathfinder prefer the shoreline? 23:54:33 <Samu> costs 23:54:43 <Eddi|zuHause> how would that help anyone? 23:54:54 <Samu> with costs, it's doable, somehow 23:55:15 <LordAro> Eddi|zuHause: less open spaces of water 23:55:24 <Samu> but then it would have to detect coast tiles 23:55:34 <Eddi|zuHause> that doesn't reduce the search space 23:55:37 <Samu> do more checks every tile 23:55:56 <Eddi|zuHause> just make it find worse paths 23:58:21 <Eddi|zuHause> to reduce the search space across open water, you could try to merge tiles into 2^n square superblocks that contain no obstacles 23:59:02 <Eddi|zuHause> store the size of the superblock in the tile 23:59:19 <Eddi|zuHause> upon changing water (clearing, flooding), invalidate the nearby superblocks, and recalculate 23:59:49 <LordAro> mm