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00:00:10 <peter1138> There is m8 now, heh. 00:00:13 <Eddi|zuHause> superblocks are also 2^n-aligned 00:00:22 <peter1138> But not much use for narrow paths, such as canals. 00:00:31 <Eddi|zuHause> canals are not the problem 00:00:36 <peter1138> Oh, true. 00:00:46 <peter1138> PR it ;) 00:02:05 <peter1138> I can probably do the superblock marks, but no idea how to plug that into the pathfinder. 00:02:24 <LordAro> press buttons until it works 00:02:27 <peter1138> :D 00:02:42 <Eddi|zuHause> a superblock is just a more complicated follow_track function, as you have more entry and exit points 00:03:06 <peter1138> Also your superblocks could potentially have dozens of exits and entrances. 00:03:16 <Eddi|zuHause> yes 00:03:24 <peter1138> And the cost would differ depending on where you start. 00:03:25 <Eddi|zuHause> but all the internal paths can be ignored 00:03:50 <Eddi|zuHause> you can calculate the cost based on entry and exit direction 00:03:59 <Eddi|zuHause> because you know all the tiles inbetween are empty 00:04:05 <LordAro> (and distance) 00:04:55 <Samu> could pathfinding be multi-threaded? 00:05:14 <Eddi|zuHause> you need some idea how to combine all the touching tiles between two superblocks 00:05:55 <peter1138> Samu, no. 00:07:22 <Eddi|zuHause> but that could be an optimisation on top, it probably is already an improvement even if you consider every possible connection between 2 superblocks individually 00:07:56 <Eddi|zuHause> sidenote: i don't think you need m8, water should have plenty of free bits 00:08:41 <peter1138> True, it's only clear water. 00:11:41 <peter1138> Hmm, you could perhaps extend it to rectangular superblocks. 00:12:07 <Eddi|zuHause> yes, but that makes checking/storing it more tricky 00:12:09 <peter1138> Although that complicates path lengths I guess. 00:12:18 <peter1138> Does it? 00:12:33 <peter1138> Still 2^ aligned, just separate x/y. 00:12:45 <Eddi|zuHause> that might work 00:13:18 <Eddi|zuHause> but it might not help much, and you have potential conflicts whether to extend in x or y direction 00:24:23 <Samu> cache 00:25:07 <Samu> gonna experiment making it pathfind every other tile 00:26:44 <Samu> (DistanceManhattan(tile, v->dest_tile) > SHIP_MAX_ORDER_DISTANCE + 5) & 1 00:26:46 <Samu> keks 00:30:28 <Samu> erm, i'm doing it wrong 00:32:36 <Samu> if (v->dest_tile == 0 || DistanceManhattan(tile, v->dest_tile) > SHIP_MAX_ORDER_DISTANCE + 5 && DistanceManhattan(tile, v->dest_tile) & 1) { 00:33:10 <peter1138> NPF works properly. It can't find a path between the two docks :p 00:37:54 <DorpsGek_II> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] PeterN commented on issue #7062: Ship becomes lost if destination is greater than maximum order distance https://git.io/fhcVy 00:37:59 <Samu> oh lol, ship is lost... no, nop, it's not lost, wait, it's lost again 00:38:04 <Samu> no, not lost 00:38:38 <peter1138> If you actually only want to pathfind less frequently, you can do that a better way. 00:38:47 <peter1138> (DistanceManhattan not involved) 00:39:18 <Samu> doesn't work well, just tested, ship still doesn't go to where it should 00:40:59 <peter1138> If you don't pathfind, you have to assume a direction to continue in. 00:41:03 *** Flygon has joined #openttd 00:41:08 <peter1138> (Or, indeed, cache the path) 00:43:28 *** Thedarkb-T60 has joined #openttd 00:44:00 *** Smedles_ has joined #openttd 00:44:11 *** Smedles has quit IRC 00:47:32 *** Thedarkb2-T60 has quit IRC 00:50:19 <Samu> (DistanceManhattan(tile, v->dest_tile) & 3) == 0 00:50:23 <Samu> this almost works 00:50:31 <Samu> ship still does weird stuff at times but... 00:50:35 <peter1138> You're barking up the wrong tree. 00:50:40 <Samu> it finds it's way 00:50:45 <Samu> ok :( 00:50:46 <peter1138> It's still wrong. 00:52:58 <Samu> what to do? 00:54:36 <Samu> if (v->dest_tile == 0 || DistanceManhattan(tile, v->dest_tile) > SHIP_MAX_ORDER_DISTANCE + 5 && Random() & 1) { 00:54:40 <Samu> random! 00:56:06 <Samu> it works, but yeah, it's wrong lol 00:56:22 <Samu> never know how random is random 00:57:40 <Samu> rellying on random to improve pathfinder speed 00:57:51 <Samu> erm, cpu hog 01:02:01 <Samu> this might actually be a "good enough" solution? let me try the 5000 ship savegame 01:03:03 <Samu> i suspect it too be either too spiky or too smooth 01:07:43 <Samu> hmm the ships look rather dumb 01:08:01 <Samu> doesn't look that good to the eye 01:11:46 <Samu> 5000 ships, on a 1024x1024 map with lots of water, fast forwarding at 52 fps, not too bad imo 01:12:21 <Samu> quite irregular, ranges 50-70 01:16:15 <Samu> testing without randomness 01:16:16 <Samu> brb 01:19:49 <Samu> nah 01:20:04 <Samu> getting the same fps which is strage 01:24:44 <DorpsGek_II> [OpenTTD/website] nikolas opened pull request #19: typo fix: idillic -> idyllic https://git.io/fhcoV 01:25:29 <Samu> i think it may be worth trying the && Random() & 1 01:25:36 <Samu> after the distance check 01:26:19 <Samu> track choice when it fails could be improved somewhat 01:26:45 <peter1138> It continues in the current direction. 01:27:44 *** Thedarkb-X40 has joined #openttd 01:28:25 <Samu> if it goes vertical or horizontal against a coast, it could make a 45 degree turn 01:28:49 <Samu> instead of being forced to reverse 01:29:37 <Samu> depends on coast direction too I suppose 01:32:05 <Samu> i'm off to bed, take care 01:32:32 *** Samu has quit IRC 01:34:12 *** Thedarkb-T60 has quit IRC 01:35:02 <DorpsGek_II> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] glx22 opened pull request #7063: Fix: deps calculation call could fail due to command line length https://git.io/fhcKl 01:51:06 *** HerzogDeXtEr has quit IRC 02:38:19 *** chomwitt has quit IRC 03:42:07 *** glx has quit IRC 04:00:36 *** D-HUND has joined #openttd 04:03:59 *** debdog has quit IRC 04:14:42 *** Thedarkb-X40 has quit IRC 04:31:53 *** snail_UES_ has quit IRC 05:04:17 *** FLHerne has quit IRC 05:04:28 *** FLHerne has joined #openttd 06:12:01 *** techmagus has quit IRC 06:43:42 *** andythenorth has joined #openttd 06:59:59 *** andythenorth has quit IRC 07:11:03 *** andythenorth has joined #openttd 07:14:36 *** chomwitt has joined #openttd 07:50:07 *** AKTheKnight has quit IRC 07:51:51 *** AKTheKnight has joined #openttd 07:54:37 *** D-HUND is now known as debdog 08:04:48 *** WWacko1976-work has joined #openttd 08:04:56 *** andythenorth has quit IRC 08:06:21 *** andythenorth has joined #openttd 08:30:29 *** andythenorth has quit IRC 08:32:27 *** Thedarkb-T60 has joined #openttd 08:43:04 *** Thedarkb-T60 has quit IRC 08:55:11 *** andythenorth has joined #openttd 09:04:02 *** andythenorth has quit IRC 09:14:03 <DorpsGek_II> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] Gabda87 commented on pull request #7047: Add #6887: Highlight tiles within local authority of towns https://git.io/fhcxF 09:21:32 *** andythenorth has joined #openttd 09:30:33 <peter1138> Morning. 09:33:38 <andythenorth> moin 10:03:03 <peter1138> Why is my tummy rumbling? I had breakfast :S 10:43:56 *** sla_ro|master has joined #openttd 12:26:34 <DorpsGek_II> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] Gabda87 opened pull request #7064: Fix #6438: raising/lowering 'Maximum no. competitors' setting in multiplayer https://git.io/fhCGC 12:34:20 *** raphikov has joined #openttd 12:34:51 *** raphikov has quit IRC 12:46:42 * andythenorth so hungry 12:46:45 <andythenorth> peter1138: lunch time yet? 13:05:24 *** snail_UES_ has joined #openttd 13:17:31 *** tokai has joined #openttd 13:17:31 *** ChanServ sets mode: +v tokai 13:24:22 *** tokai|noir has quit IRC 13:30:05 *** snail_UES_ has quit IRC 13:43:25 *** Flygon has quit IRC 14:22:40 <peter1138> It was, I'd already eaten. 14:22:48 <peter1138> But only about 5-10 minutes before-hand. 14:26:13 *** Samu has joined #openttd 14:26:34 <Samu> mirc expires after 30 days? 14:26:35 <Samu> wtf 14:26:37 <Samu> :( 14:27:12 <peter1138> It "expires", yes. 14:27:16 <peter1138> But mIRC is pretty shit. 14:33:02 <Samu> https://github.com/OpenTTD/OpenTTD/pull/6986#issuecomment-445574298 this guy seems to be a town expert 14:33:18 <Samu> how to persuade him into looking my code? 14:33:55 <Xaroth> Ask him? 14:36:40 <andythenorth> he'll either comment on your PR because it looks interesting, or he won't 14:40:40 *** nielsm has joined #openttd 15:00:21 <peter1138> Should I investigate super-tiles? 15:01:19 <nielsm> as in splitting the map up in blocks of tiles? 15:01:20 <andythenorth> super 15:01:23 <andythenorth> why not eh? 15:01:34 <peter1138> Not actually splitting. 15:01:37 <nielsm> macro-tiles, to make a comparison to video coding 15:01:54 <peter1138> Just recording such for open water. 15:02:44 <andythenorth> is this for pathfinding? 15:02:53 <peter1138> Yes. 15:02:54 <nielsm> yes some kind of optimization for determining water connectivity is likely good 15:03:07 <andythenorth> does it have any relevance to also giving towns blocks of super tile? 15:03:15 <peter1138> No. 15:03:17 <andythenorth> ok 15:03:27 *** WWacko1976-work has left #openttd 15:03:28 * andythenorth deletes all the ships 15:03:32 <andythenorth> "super" 15:04:48 <andythenorth> ha ha last 2 lines peter1138 https://github.com/andythenorth/NotWater/issues/1#issuecomment-289422663 15:05:15 <peter1138> o 15:15:04 <peter1138> Maybe I should just test my existing caching patch a bit more. I don't think super-tiles will solve the unreachable tile issue. 15:15:45 <Eddi|zuHause> unreachable will always be the worst case 15:16:03 <peter1138> It's such a bad worst case though :) 15:16:24 <Eddi|zuHause> you can make region numbers 15:16:26 <peter1138> Ah well, at least you are less likely to have 5000 ships all concurrently doing it now. 15:16:35 <peter1138> Hmm. m8 :-) 15:16:47 <peter1138> Actually m2 is free for water tiles anyway. 15:17:37 <Eddi|zuHause> problem with region numbers is, in case of clearing a tile, you must look whether all adjacent tiles are still connected 15:17:39 <peter1138> I wonder how to calculate regions efficiently. 15:17:45 <peter1138> Heh 15:17:51 <Eddi|zuHause> and potentially allocate a new region 15:17:58 <Eddi|zuHause> and on flooding you might have to merge regions 15:18:17 <Eddi|zuHause> otherwise, it's just a flood fill 15:18:20 <peter1138> Merging is simpler than splitting, I think. 15:18:39 <Eddi|zuHause> not really 15:19:14 <Eddi|zuHause> finding tiles that are not yet in any region is a tricky part as well 15:19:19 <peter1138> Yes really. With merging you have just 1 tile that connects, you can simply mark all the other tiles in that region to the new merged region. 15:19:54 <peter1138> But for splitting you need to keep track of way more stuff. 15:20:02 <peter1138> And indeed finding the regions, yes. 15:20:18 <Eddi|zuHause> with splitting the only tricky part is to detect whether it's still connected 15:20:36 <Eddi|zuHause> once you detected that, it's again just a flood-fill 15:20:42 <andythenorth> it's really quite a nice problem 15:20:52 <peter1138> andythenorth, that sounds like volunteering :D 15:20:56 <andythenorth> nope 15:21:07 <andythenorth> but it's nicely non-trivial 15:21:16 <andythenorth> and also makes piss all difference in most games :) 15:21:34 <Eddi|zuHause> the word you were looking for is "niche" :p 15:21:56 <andythenorth> it's niche 15:22:21 <peter1138> Alternatively you can finite-size regions, and maintain a list of connected regions. 15:22:25 <peter1138> +have 15:22:55 <peter1138> Although that complicates the "can you get from here to there" test. 15:23:04 <Eddi|zuHause> someone did that with placing a bunch of buoys in the center of each region 15:34:33 <peter1138> Mint Daim bars are pretty damn good. Shame they're all processed sugar :/ 15:39:55 <Eddi|zuHause> processed sugar is not worse than natural sugar 15:40:47 <peter1138> Actually the form-factor of your carbohydrates does affect things. 15:41:15 <peter1138> But yeah. Shame they're all sugar. :p 15:41:51 <Eddi|zuHause> but the most important thing is the mixture. once the sugar is removed from the original fruit (like, say, fruit juice), you've basically lost 15:42:41 <peter1138> Fruit juice is basically concentrated sugar. I haven't bought any for ages. 15:45:15 <peter1138> Over Christmas I bought a load of goodies in lots of moments of weakness :p 15:45:22 *** Wormnest has joined #openttd 15:45:52 <peter1138> Working my way through them means I've got high sugar for a bit. I could just bin them but I hate food waste. 15:48:07 <Eddi|zuHause> oh, and the worst part is when you mix sugar and proteins 15:48:21 <Eddi|zuHause> and fat 15:48:31 <Eddi|zuHause> all in one dish 15:48:35 <andythenorth> it is? 15:48:44 <andythenorth> sounds like a cheese toasty with jam to me 15:48:51 <Eddi|zuHause> exactly 15:48:59 <peter1138> No need for the jam. 15:50:45 <peter1138> Plenty of carbs in bread, though the sugar is relatively lower. 15:53:07 <peter1138> Still, the carbs gets turned into sugar anyway. 15:57:01 <nielsm> ah yay, fixed the dumb pcm buffer bug: https://0x0.st/shKd.ogg 15:57:08 <nielsm> now it's making the sound actually correct! 15:58:06 <peter1138> Hmm, sounds broken to me. Maybe that's my sound. 15:58:17 *** Wormnest_ has joined #openttd 15:58:53 <peter1138> Yeah it's not right. 16:00:11 <nielsm> it's wrong, but it's not chopped up 16:00:20 *** Thedarkb-T60 has joined #openttd 16:00:22 <peter1138> It is choppy for me. Hmm. 16:00:41 *** Wormnest has quit IRC 16:00:46 <nielsm> before I was mishandling the PCM buffer so half the buffer was filled with zeroes and the other half mixed-up samples 16:02:25 <nielsm> the remaining bugs should be traceable to actual faults in my reimplementation of the decoder, as opposed to dumb mistakes in pcm buffer handling 16:02:42 <nielsm> (wrote 2*n samples to the buffer and incremented pointer by n samples) 16:29:29 *** Thedarkb-T60 has quit IRC 16:30:38 <nielsm> gah okay, I'm doing _something_ bad here, because I'm hitting heap corruption triggers whenever my new code has been running 16:35:58 * peter1138 rides out the sugar crash. 16:36:17 * andythenorth wants a sugar crash 16:36:21 * andythenorth had a no-sugar crash :( 16:37:07 *** daspork has quit IRC 16:40:53 <AKTheKnight> Is it a day at work if I don't have a crash at some point? 16:41:26 <Samu> i'm experimenting different costs for water stuff 16:41:29 <peter1138> It's a ssensible day. 16:41:55 *** Thedarkb-T60 has joined #openttd 16:42:16 <Samu> if IsWaterTile, add a big cost, so that in essence i'm making the other water tracks cheaper for the pathfinder 16:42:42 <Samu> because they're in less quantity, i wonder if this helps pathfinding along the coast 16:43:26 <peter1138> Actually I'm probably just tired from lack of sleep, and just sat here no moving :p 16:43:47 * andythenorth just had a nap 16:43:49 <andythenorth> pretty unwanted 16:43:52 <Samu> pathfind in less node searchs 16:43:56 <Samu> what i'm aiming 16:44:35 *** daspork has joined #openttd 16:45:36 <nielsm> https://0x0.st/shPu.ogg almost recognizable now, but still massively broken 16:45:41 <nielsm> and still triggers heap corruption 16:47:41 <AKTheKnight> Can you add that as an actual soundtrack? I kinda like it 16:47:49 <nielsm> :P 16:48:01 <Samu> uh oh i just broke yapf 16:48:07 <Samu> costs are important after all 16:48:18 <Samu> what was a valid path, now became a lost path 16:48:31 <nielsm> the bugs when I was working on the GM decoder for dos music were more interesting :) 16:52:22 <nielsm> AKTheKnight: https://0x0.st/shP_.mkv 16:55:13 <peter1138> nielsm, lol, after the intro worked so perfectly ... 16:55:21 *** Progman has joined #openttd 17:03:49 <Samu> just tested no penalty for making turns, and it appears yapf does find paths slightly faster, 1 test case though 17:04:00 <Samu> ships dont slow down on turns 17:05:04 <Samu> gonna test with 5000 ships, brb 17:05:49 <Samu> oh wait, this is debug mode, crap 17:14:50 <Samu> meh, with 5000 ships the difference is negligible, not worth the effort 17:15:33 <Samu> penalty for curves apparently does help 1 or 2% 17:16:40 <Samu> @calc 10.40 / 10.20 17:16:41 <DorpsGek> Samu: 1.01960784314 17:16:51 <Samu> 2% 17:20:59 *** Thedarkb-T60 has quit IRC 17:25:55 <andythenorth> bad features 17:25:58 <andythenorth> are TMWFTLB 17:26:03 * andythenorth does it anyway 17:26:10 <Samu> holy crap beguglevel npf=9 is suicide 17:26:13 <Samu> debug 17:32:26 <peter1138> It's a lot of useful debug information. 17:32:32 <peter1138> You probably don't want to use it with 5000 ships. 17:33:33 <peter1138> I love how you just get random ideas and keep plugging away with different variations without really knowing what you're doing :p 17:34:06 <andythenorth> peter1138: I assume you're talking to me ^ :P 17:34:12 <peter1138> Yes of course :-) 17:34:19 <andythenorth> sounds like UI design 17:34:21 <andythenorth> and newgrfs 17:34:33 <andythenorth> and my entire career 17:34:40 <andythenorth> also children 17:34:47 <andythenorth> very much children 17:35:04 <andythenorth> so I've coded EMUs that are slow-ish 17:35:09 <andythenorth> unless you attach them to an engine 17:35:14 <andythenorth> then they're fast-ish 17:35:19 <andythenorth> worst BAD FEATURE so far? 17:35:35 <Eddi|zuHause> yes 17:35:56 <andythenorth> peak BAD FEATURE 17:36:15 <peter1138> Is it the R word? 17:36:39 <LordAro> reggae 17:36:55 <andythenorth> reggae sauce 17:37:09 <Samu> horizontal tracks cost 71 on yapf, 70 on npf, is that intended? 17:37:21 *** daspork has quit IRC 17:37:24 <Samu> horiz/verti 17:37:36 <LordAro> Samu: probably not, but i don't expect it to make any significant difference 17:37:58 <andythenorth> it's like realism, if I controlled reality 17:38:05 <andythenorth> it's not at all like realism otherwise :P 17:38:11 <andythenorth> I might retcon it somehow though 17:38:39 <andythenorth> just amuses me to hide stupid features :D 17:38:41 <peter1138> Damn, Continuum shaders are kinda slow. 17:38:50 <peter1138> 10 fps :/ 17:38:53 *** daspork has joined #openttd 17:39:11 <andythenorth> pedal faster 17:39:46 <Samu> sqrt(2)/2*NPF_TILE_LENGTH =~ 0.7071 17:40:24 <Samu> #define STRAIGHT_TRACK_LENGTH 7071/10000 17:40:36 <Samu> yapf doesn't do any of this math 17:40:44 <Samu> it just says it's 71 17:41:01 <peter1138> Close enough. 17:43:07 <andythenorth> hmm 17:43:17 <andythenorth> should I also make it change the speed 17:43:26 <andythenorth> if the engine is at the rear of the consist? 17:45:05 *** HerzogDeXtEr has joined #openttd 17:49:05 <andythenorth> don't think I have a var for that :P 17:49:07 * andythenorth checks 17:50:15 <andythenorth> nah 17:50:21 <andythenorth> not trivially 17:50:32 <andythenorth> requires pissing around with var 61 17:53:46 <Eddi|zuHause> just check the position in consist in the engine? 17:53:58 <Eddi|zuHause> (works only for lowering speed, not raising) 17:54:14 <Eddi|zuHause> but i still don't think you're going in any sane direction 17:54:19 <andythenorth> I'm seeing if I can count IDs 17:54:25 <andythenorth> without too much nml 17:56:02 <Eddi|zuHause> there's a var for that i think 17:57:57 <andythenorth> there is 17:58:16 <Samu> the real time it takes to walk a tile in axis direction is 16*256* advance speed i think, gonna recheck 18:05:41 *** gelignite has joined #openttd 18:09:59 * andythenorth wonders what the worst feature I could add is? 18:10:16 <andythenorth> snail has implemented brake force in french NG set, that's quite interesting 18:12:09 <Eddi|zuHause> in some sense snail is even worse than george :p 18:12:59 <Samu> oops i forked andythenorth notwater stuff by mistake 18:13:04 <andythenorth> it's comprehensive and detailed and works though 18:13:17 <andythenorth> there is a clear theme to it, and a big user guide 18:13:37 <Samu> how to delete a fork? 18:14:14 <Samu> ah, got it https://github.com/SamuXarick/NotWater/settings 18:16:11 <Samu> wanted to head to my own fork, and instead it did that :( 18:16:54 *** Mahjong has quit IRC 18:18:07 *** Mahjong has joined #openttd 18:19:24 <Samu> https://github.com/OpenTTD/OpenTTD/blob/master/src/vehicle_base.h#L377 don't you mean in horizontal / vertical, or non-X and non-Y? 18:20:28 <Samu> it's confusing 18:21:28 <Samu> The vehicle speed is scaled by 3/4 when not moving in a DiagDir direction due to the shorter distance I think would be correct 18:22:40 <Samu> or i don't know the meaning of scaled by 18:35:16 <Samu> @calc 16*256 18:35:16 <DorpsGek> Samu: 4096 18:35:20 <andythenorth> I could add different types of brakes? 18:35:33 <Samu> decelleration formula 18:35:46 <andythenorth> compatibility rules for multi-head engines? 18:35:58 <andythenorth> pikka already did pax train electric supply :P 18:36:00 <andythenorth> and deleted it 18:36:16 <Eddi|zuHause> i imagine so 18:36:38 <Samu> a tile has 16 sublocations, and needs 256 progress units to advance 1 sublocation 18:36:57 <Samu> and vehicle moves at full speed 18:37:05 <Eddi|zuHause> pikka had this minimalist phase where EVERY feature is a BAD FEATURE 18:37:25 <Samu> another tile, has 8 sublocations, and needs 256 progress units to advance 1 sublocation, and the vehicle moves at 3/4 speed 18:37:37 <Eddi|zuHause> "only 10 engines" and such 18:37:38 <andythenorth> pikka need to reset :) 18:37:51 *** glx has joined #openttd 18:37:51 *** ChanServ sets mode: +v glx 18:37:55 <Samu> for pathfinder cost penalties, if the first one costs 100, what would the other cost? 18:38:01 <Samu> 75 or 37.5? 18:38:09 <andythenorth> so should I do variable running costs for engines, relative to powered-ness on current railtype? 18:39:01 *** Wolf01 has joined #openttd 18:39:21 <Wolf01> o/ 18:40:09 <andythenorth> might need a var for 'powered-ness' :P 18:40:36 <Samu> I need a math expert :| 18:41:18 <Eddi|zuHause> *cough* 18:41:30 <Samu> i'm more inclined towards 75 because it makes more sense in my mind, lol 18:41:37 <DorpsGek_II> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] Eddi-z updated pull request #7000: Add: Var 6A, a clone of Var 4A for querying poweredness compared to a… https://git.io/fhI7h 18:42:39 *** Wormnest_ has quit IRC 18:44:02 <Wolf01> <Samu> I need a math expert :| -> @calc? 18:44:32 <Samu> 75 or 37.5? 18:46:22 <Eddi|zuHause> Wolf01: calculation has nothing to do with maths 18:47:24 <Wolf01> I would use integers 18:49:29 <Eddi|zuHause> aw, i forgot git add :/ 18:49:42 <Eddi|zuHause> how do i add just one changeset in a file? 18:50:09 <LordAro> git add <file> :P 18:50:33 <LordAro> Oh, a single changeset: -p 18:52:14 <DorpsGek_II> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] Eddi-z updated pull request #7000: Add: Var 6A, a clone of Var 4A for querying poweredness compared to a… https://git.io/fhI7h 18:54:06 <Samu> the length of a straight track is 50 18:54:20 <Samu> and the vehicle moves at 3/4 18:54:28 <Samu> @calc 50 * 3/4 18:54:28 <DorpsGek> Samu: 37.5 18:54:31 <Samu> :/ 18:54:39 <Samu> cant use decimals, what can i do 18:55:06 <Samu> double everything 18:55:34 <Eddi|zuHause> someone should look over my bitmath and tell me whether i got that right 18:58:34 <DorpsGek_II> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] Eddi-z updated pull request #7000: Add: Var 6A, a clone of Var 4A for querying poweredness compared to a… https://git.io/fhI7h 18:59:07 <DorpsGek_II> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] Eddi-z updated pull request #7000: Add: Var 6A, a clone of Var 4A for querying poweredness compared to a… https://git.io/fhI7h 19:04:43 <Samu> i just made opf ships drunk 19:04:46 <Samu> erm, npf 19:05:11 <andythenorth> Eddi|zuHause: you can issue sparks from somewhere else :P 19:05:39 <Samu> it looks the answer is not 37.5, or i'm not sure i'm visualizing this right 19:06:12 *** frosch123 has joined #openttd 19:06:33 <andythenorth> maybe I'm wrong, maybe effect vehicles aren't in tthe spec :) 19:07:18 <Samu> a diag track has 16 sub locations, a vehicle needs 256 progress units to advance a sub location 19:07:37 <Samu> a horz/vert track has 8 19:08:00 <Samu> and vehicles move at 3/4 on them 19:08:26 <Samu> which is like saying it needs 256*4/3 ? 19:08:36 <Samu> @calc 256*4/3 19:08:36 <DorpsGek> Samu: 341.333333333 19:09:40 <Samu> @calc 256/16 19:09:40 <DorpsGek> Samu: 16 19:09:52 <Samu> @calc 256*4/3/8 19:09:52 <DorpsGek> Samu: 42.6666666667 19:10:12 <Eddi|zuHause> andythenorth: you can move them forwards and backwards 19:10:20 <Eddi|zuHause> but not up and down, or sideways 19:10:33 * andythenorth makes peace with that 19:10:36 <Samu> @calc (256*4/3) / 8 19:10:37 <DorpsGek> Samu: 42.6666666667 19:10:45 <Samu> this looks so wrong 19:10:49 <Samu> i hate math 19:10:50 <andythenorth> sure I've seen effect vehicles spec somewhere in frosch123 wiki :) 19:10:52 <Eddi|zuHause> plus if you want to make 3rd rail sparks, you also need to know which side the 3rd rail is on 19:10:57 <andythenorth> oof 19:11:00 <andythenorth> let's not? 19:11:08 <andythenorth> tile effects :P 19:11:29 <andythenorth> I tried to add 3rd rail flash to 00 trains once 19:11:39 <andythenorth> with an LED, a reed switch and a magnet 19:12:38 <frosch123> https://wiki.openttd.org/Frosch/New_Smoke#Custom_effects <- not implemented 19:13:01 <Eddi|zuHause> frosch123: when andy says "frosch wiki" i'm immediately assuming it's not implemented :p 19:13:46 <Eddi|zuHause> about the railtype speed, i'm somehow questioning the usefulness if that, since you don't know whether that's the currently limiting speed 19:13:48 <frosch123> rude, about 1/4 is implemennted 19:13:52 <andythenorth> the frosch wiki is a happy place 19:13:57 <andythenorth> things go there to ripen 19:14:10 <andythenorth> if yexo was here, more of it would be picked 19:14:26 <Eddi|zuHause> frosch123: but the implemented parts should also be on other wikis :p 19:14:48 <andythenorth> how do we get a new yexo? 19:14:49 <andythenorth> :P 19:15:01 <frosch123> buy google 19:15:45 <andythenorth> ooo 19:15:56 <andythenorth> I mean it's possible, in theory 19:18:20 <Eddi|zuHause> uhm... need to rethink these last commits 19:26:34 <Eddi|zuHause> i think i took a wrong turn somewhere 19:26:43 <Eddi|zuHause> in albuquerque 19:27:26 <peter1138> herpderp 19:28:32 <DorpsGek_II> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] Eddi-z updated pull request #7000: Add: Var 6A, a clone of Var 4A for querying poweredness compared to a… https://git.io/fhI7h 19:32:17 <Samu> if npf is similar to yapf, why does it require about 25000 nodes to find what yapf finds in 10000? 19:33:25 <peter1138> They're both A* 19:33:46 <andythenorth> why did yapf 'replace' npf? o_O 19:33:55 <peter1138> Optimisations affect how it works. 19:34:20 <frosch123> yapf has a cache 19:34:45 <Eddi|zuHause> yapf was written by a crazyperson 19:34:59 <frosch123> npf visits every tile whenever searching 19:35:11 <frosch123> yapf caches segments and their cost between junctions 19:35:31 <Samu> for ships there is no cache, if i'm not mistaken 19:36:03 *** Gja has joined #openttd 19:36:07 <frosch123> which works well if you have more track than junctions 19:37:30 <LordAro> so turning large sections of open water into "segments" would work well then! 19:38:29 <Eddi|zuHause> LordAro: that's where the supertiles would come in 19:38:43 <Eddi|zuHause> not quite the same thing, though 19:38:58 <andythenorth> implicit bouys 19:39:02 <frosch123> ships have two issues 19:39:32 <frosch123> 1. there are junctions everywhere, so pathfinder has lots of options. 2. there are junctions everywhere, so the ship has to redecide on every tile 19:39:37 <Samu> yapf is better for ships, but I don't know why, can't figure the reason myself 19:39:46 <Samu> tested 19:40:07 <frosch123> somewhen i tried to address (2), by remembering how many tiles a ship won't change direction before searching next time 19:40:15 <frosch123> but did not finish :p 19:40:24 <Eddi|zuHause> was just about to ask how far that got :p 19:41:03 <peter1138> Why do you think there is no cache? 19:41:20 <Samu> there is a cache that always returns false 19:41:28 <Samu> so it's not enabled where i tested? 19:43:21 *** Thedarkb-T60 has joined #openttd 19:43:47 <Samu> seems to be a thing for roads and rails using pfs if I recall 19:44:05 <Samu> caches the entire road segment until it finds a turn 19:44:24 <Samu> for ships... i can't see anything 19:45:20 <andythenorth> do ships really pathfind on every tile? :o 19:45:25 <andythenorth> instead of caching a vector? 19:49:40 <Samu> every tiles 19:49:55 <Samu> maybe except aqueducts 19:49:58 <Samu> not sure 19:57:08 <andythenorth> what is the problem with ships? 19:57:34 <Eddi|zuHause> there is no problem with ships, everything works fine 19:57:58 <andythenorth> why do they need all these changes then? :P 19:58:07 <andythenorth> I just use ships in my game 19:58:12 <andythenorth> and if I use it a lot, it gets slow 19:58:16 <andythenorth> [shrug] 19:58:24 <nielsm> hmm in its current broken form, the adlib player takes about 3 ms to produce 8192 samples at 44.1 khz 19:58:32 <nielsm> in a release build 19:58:49 <nielsm> (on my machine) 19:59:34 <glx> and 8192@44.1 time lenght is ? 20:00:32 <nielsm> so about 16 ms out of every second is spent on music? 20:00:40 <nielsm> (which runs on a separate thread) 20:01:06 <peter1138> Seems ok. 20:01:20 <peter1138> There's a reason these things were done in hardware back in the 90s. 20:01:24 <nielsm> yes :) 20:01:50 <nielsm> and besides the hardware synth is analog signal generators with digital controls 20:02:21 <glx> it should be possible to prepare a sample batch while another is actually played 20:02:34 <nielsm> true 20:02:54 <nielsm> that just requires some synchronization I'm not into doing right now 20:03:16 <nielsm> wow something breaks completely in sawyer's tune 20:03:23 <peter1138> That shouldn't be necessary. 20:03:24 <nielsm> a few places it hangs weirdly 20:03:42 <peter1138> The audio is already buffered, so it already is being played concurrently with generation. 20:03:45 <glx> fill the buffer, wait for mixer to ask for the buffer 20:03:59 <glx> give it and prepare the next batch 20:04:37 <glx> you'll still need to copy your buffer into the mixer provided buffer 20:07:33 <nielsm> sinister... and not deterministic! https://0x0.st/shNi.webm 20:08:40 *** HerzogDeXtEr has quit IRC 20:10:11 <Eddi|zuHause> very 80s 20:14:56 *** sla_ro|master has quit IRC 20:23:18 <DorpsGek_II> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] Eddi-z updated pull request #7000: Some NewGRF variables concerning railtypes https://git.io/fhI7h 20:25:34 <Eddi|zuHause> i think this is how far i can sensibly do it righ now, the parts about what's the speed limit and what's the cruising state is a bit more elaborate 20:26:24 <andythenorth> I missed those proposals in the comments 20:26:28 <andythenorth> but they're very interesting 20:27:14 <Eddi|zuHause> still unsure about the speed limit thing in var 4A 20:28:28 <DorpsGek_II> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] andythenorth commented on issue #6947: A new variable Vehicle is loading required https://git.io/fhCj1 20:29:15 <DorpsGek_II> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] Eddi-z commented on pull request #7000: Some NewGRF variables concerning railtypes https://git.io/fhCjH 20:30:56 <Eddi|zuHause> speed limit thing might be something for GroundVehicle rather than Train? 20:31:08 <andythenorth> so 20:31:20 <Eddi|zuHause> planes could also have speed limit while taxiing 20:31:26 <andythenorth> I could make a dual-mode 3rd-rail and overhead AC loco? :P 20:32:17 <andythenorth> planes with a pushback tug :P 20:33:09 <andythenorth> not sure what I'd do with the speed limit var, but I'm not george or snail et al 20:36:48 *** Gja has quit IRC 20:37:28 <Eddi|zuHause> i'm thinking a "speed_limit" variable, and a "speed_limit_flags" variable in Vehicle, and the acceleration/movement code sets this appropriately. on every line that sets the speed_limit variable, it is compared with the current speed_limit value, and if lower, speed_limit_flags is cleared and new bit is set (depeding on line), if equal, lime-bit is added to the current flags, and if higher, nothing is done 20:37:51 <Eddi|zuHause> *line-bit 20:38:17 <peter1138> Hmm, right, maybe I should work on some things I promised, or have already started on. 20:38:33 <peter1138> I wonder why gitg removed its stash viewer. That was really useful. 20:38:33 <Eddi|zuHause> "speed_limit_flags" might be "vehicle", "track", "bridge", "station approach", "timetable", ... 20:39:08 <Eddi|zuHause> "power exhausted"? 20:39:19 <Eddi|zuHause> (i.e. acceleration was 0) 20:39:57 <Eddi|zuHause> or "te exhausted"? 20:41:13 <andythenorth> peter1138: work on new things! 20:41:15 * andythenorth always does 20:41:19 <peter1138> :/ 20:41:25 <andythenorth> way more fun 20:41:33 <peter1138> Hmm, ships stopping in locks...? 20:41:35 <andythenorth> no need for docs and making the test pas 20:41:39 <peter1138> That's about 10 years old. 20:41:39 <andythenorth> and all that crap 20:41:46 <andythenorth> multi-docks :P 20:41:49 <Eddi|zuHause> peter1138: newgrf statemachines 20:42:05 <peter1138> Not sure that was something I ever planned, Eddi|zuHause; 20:42:07 <andythenorth> newgrf station tiles that can show more than one cargo (across the whole station) 20:42:17 <andythenorth> flat docks 20:42:21 <Eddi|zuHause> (would cover ship locks, drawbridges, highways/onramps, airports) 20:42:39 <andythenorth> flat docks are allegedly in the spec already, mumble mumble TTDP 20:42:41 <Eddi|zuHause> (tram turning loops) 20:42:44 * andythenorth didn't check 20:43:03 <andythenorth> unrelated: anyone know how physics works? 20:43:39 * andythenorth wonders about an acceleration factor, it's a proxy for gearing, peak torque etc 20:43:42 <andythenorth> TE isn't the same 20:44:05 <Eddi|zuHause> ? 20:44:05 <andythenorth> TE has almost no effect unless you add enough weight to a train that it's on it's knees on a slope 20:45:02 <andythenorth> the significant property for train performance in game is purely HP, except for pathological combination of weight + slope 20:45:13 <Eddi|zuHause> train needs a startup force? won't move unless TE > that force? 20:45:31 <andythenorth> yes, but if TE is 'enough' there isn't much more observable difference 20:45:37 <Eddi|zuHause> yes. 20:45:42 <andythenorth> I did learn how TE works once, and I believe that's correct 20:46:03 <andythenorth> whereas acceleration depends on the rate of work or so 20:46:18 <peter1138> problem is we use the max TE all the time, which in reality would result in an... uncomfortable and inefficient acceleration. 20:46:24 <Eddi|zuHause> TE is the limiting factor on very low speeds (<20km/h or so) 20:46:28 <andythenorth> yes 20:46:37 <andythenorth> for acceleration, mechanical or electrical factors like gearing, wheel size, or max watts on the motor are the factors 20:46:48 <peter1138> yes 20:46:50 <andythenorth> TL;DR I'd like to be able to make some trains suited for many stops 20:46:55 <andythenorth> and some for few stops 20:47:03 <andythenorth> it's hardly necessary 20:47:13 <peter1138> basically the only way to have slow acceleration is to have very underpowered trains 20:47:15 <andythenorth> but currently I have to piss around with quite fine adjustments of HP 20:47:46 <andythenorth> fast trains that have enough HP to achieve max speed are quite OP for all other cases 20:47:49 <Eddi|zuHause> other than braking force, i don't see what you can really change there 20:48:01 <andythenorth> I read the code, and I didn't see an obvious thing to try 20:48:08 <Eddi|zuHause> or ridiculously high running costs 20:48:16 <andythenorth> but there's probably a rate of acceleraion that could have a factor applied 20:49:07 <Eddi|zuHause> "real" trains are also probably scheduled about 80% of their max speed 20:49:12 <andythenorth> yes 20:49:25 <andythenorth> acceleration out of stops is a key issue IRL 20:49:29 <andythenorth> for pathing and performance 20:49:34 <andythenorth> not sure that matters in game 20:50:00 <Eddi|zuHause> you don't have enough controls to handle that properly 20:50:17 <andythenorth> but in Horse, unless you load the weight up enough to put the train on its knees, you are usually better off choosing the expensive pax engine 20:50:29 <peter1138> Add the controls. 20:50:38 <andythenorth> it will beat the equivalent sized freight engine over the same tile route 20:50:48 <andythenorth> it will cost more, but there's less network contention 20:50:54 <andythenorth> and network contention >>>> money 20:51:04 <peter1138> Hmm, should I make this patch a setting? :p 20:51:16 <andythenorth> accelerating out of signal stops is quite a big deal in the kind of crap ottd networks I build 20:51:21 * andythenorth is not coop style 20:51:22 <Eddi|zuHause> settings are evil 20:51:39 <peter1138> Yes but gameplay changes are ... hmm ... 20:51:47 <andythenorth> JUST DO IT! 20:51:52 <andythenorth> PeterPP 20:51:58 <andythenorth> what changed? :P 20:52:05 <peter1138> I considered that but it's too much work. 20:52:29 <peter1138> I just resigned from being the local CTC ride coordinator because I'm too lazy to do it once a month. 20:52:48 <peter1138> andythenorth, this is my patch that makes ships turn slowly instead of instantly. 20:53:30 <peter1138> It's quite an invasive patch for something that isn't seen very often :/ 20:53:41 <peter1138> Maybe we need tugs :p 20:54:56 <peter1138> https://github.com/PeterN/OpenTTD/commits/ship-tweaks-redux 20:55:05 <peter1138> ^ It's that last change. 20:56:00 <andythenorth> I hate it 20:56:07 <andythenorth> do it anyway? o_O 20:56:12 <andythenorth> forums always blame me 20:56:20 <andythenorth> or someone innocent, never you 20:56:28 <peter1138> You hate it? Did you... what? 20:56:48 <andythenorth> of course I didn't 20:57:19 <andythenorth> hmm 20:57:23 <andythenorth> do I have you upstream? 20:57:24 <andythenorth> yes 20:58:17 <andythenorth> hmm where is acceleration stuff, ground_vehicle_cmd maybe? 21:00:29 <peter1138> Fitbit says I can eat another 1000 kcal, despite have a pizza and garlic bread for dinner. Madness. Is cheese a good idea? 21:01:19 <andythenorth> peter1138: how do I test the reversing? 21:01:59 <peter1138> Basically when ship heads into a dock head on, when it leaves it will turn instead of just flipping around. 21:02:12 <andythenorth> and if I reverse it en-route (change order)? 21:02:19 <peter1138> Now I think about it, this is massively over engineered for something that is barely visible :s 21:02:24 <peter1138> Yeah that should too. 21:02:41 <andythenorth> no actually I love it 21:02:50 <peter1138> And 90 degree turns will have an intermediate step. 21:02:51 <andythenorth> it's a lot more like real ships 21:02:56 <andythenorth> it's a bit ponderous 21:03:07 <peter1138> It makes ships worse, just what we need :D 21:03:10 <andythenorth> I thought it might be annoying in a game, but it's a small-big-improvement 21:03:32 <andythenorth> looks like they're maneouvering 21:04:01 <andythenorth> yeah that 180 deg dock flip :P 21:04:03 <andythenorth> I won't miss that 21:04:20 *** Maarten has quit IRC 21:04:25 *** Maarten has joined #openttd 21:05:06 <andythenorth> hmm if we have air drag 21:05:08 <andythenorth> and curve speed 21:05:19 <andythenorth> we can probably accomodate a proxy for gearing / etc 21:05:26 <andythenorth> dunno what the technical term would be 21:05:35 <andythenorth> is it some kind of torque co-efficient? 21:06:00 <andythenorth> it applies during acceleration, rather than cruise 21:08:03 <peter1138> just have a callback, called every tick, to have the vehicle calculate its own acceleration :p 21:08:43 <andythenorth> lovely 21:08:44 <peter1138> Biscuits & cheese? 21:08:55 <andythenorth> I threw out more mouldy cheese 21:08:57 <andythenorth> it was sad 21:08:58 <peter1138> I got a big wedge of stilton now. 21:09:14 <AKTheKnight> Favourite cheese? 21:09:16 <andythenorth> cheese boats! 21:09:30 <andythenorth> I tried cheese in FIRS 21:09:36 <andythenorth> didn't quite work, but eh 21:09:40 <peter1138> AKTheKnight, all of it. 21:10:10 <AKTheKnight> Haha if you had to pick one? 21:10:34 <peter1138> Impossible :/ 21:10:53 <andythenorth> so newgrf acceleration? :P http://evilgeniustech.com/idiotsGuideToRailroadPhysics/HorsepowerAndTractiveEffort/ 21:11:24 <peter1138> Oh yeah I got a big wedge of mature Gouda too. 21:11:42 <andythenorth> newgrf can then do all the things like phase transition :P 21:11:47 <AKTheKnight> Oooh, I love Gouda 21:11:52 <andythenorth> efficient use of regulator / controller :P 21:11:54 <andythenorth> coasting 21:11:55 <AKTheKnight> Mont d'Or has gotta be my all time favourite though 21:12:38 <peter1138> Baked Mont d'Or is good 21:12:56 <peter1138> Bloody hell, cheese is so good. 21:13:03 <peter1138> Why does it have to have so much unhealthy fat :( 21:13:34 <andythenorth> :P 21:13:47 <peter1138> Mind you kinda like Philidelphia too, but that's pretty bad cos it's not really cheese. 21:14:00 <AKTheKnight> Bagels, cream cheese, smoked salmon 21:14:03 <AKTheKnight> Perfect breakfast 21:14:18 <peter1138> Carbs ;( 21:14:35 <AKTheKnight> You trying to go low carbs? 21:14:49 <AKTheKnight> I really should care about what I eat, but for now I'm alright 21:15:39 <peter1138> Not currently, but I cut back on carbs a bit for a few months last year and felt a lot better. Lost a shed load of weight too, probably not a coincidence. 21:16:21 <peter1138> I want to cut back a bit now as I had fuck loads over christmas and they're kinda self-fulfilling. You want more while you're having them. 21:16:30 <AKTheKnight> That makes sense. I'm cutting back on takeaways/unhealthy and trying to lower my portion sizes a bit too 21:17:17 <peter1138> Carbs leads to be snacking, which results in overeating. 21:17:22 <peter1138> s/be/me. 21:18:43 <AKTheKnight> Yeah I've cut back on snacking a bit, keeping myself busy at work helps with that 21:18:47 <peter1138> Although there's a balance, I became a bit too underweight which is also not great. 21:19:09 <peter1138> As a previously fat person who thought "bah, how can you be underweight, just eat" ... well, it's not that simple :) 21:19:46 <AKTheKnight> Yeah I'm trying to avoid putting on anymore weight and being the fat person 21:22:00 <peter1138> 3 years of solid cycling helped too! 21:23:20 <AKTheKnight> I need to get into doing more exercise. Think I'll try and do some running and cycling again once it warms up 21:24:12 <nielsm> that's a funky waveform https://0x0.st/shN3.png 21:25:24 <glx> saturation ? 21:26:01 <peter1138> Hmm, lots of HF noise? 21:26:13 <peter1138> or is that LFO gone mad? 21:26:23 <peter1138> Ah, just saw the time scale. 21:26:26 <peter1138> It's an LFO gone mad. 21:26:56 <nielsm> yes looks like around 0.25 hz 21:27:13 <peter1138> In an analogue system that DC offset would be lost due to output capacitors filtering it. 21:27:24 <peter1138> (And indeed, it will be) 21:27:54 <nielsm> but anyway it's sounding a bit more like it: https://0x0.st/shNg.ogg 21:27:59 <nielsm> mostly the percussion is bugged 21:28:17 <nielsm> and then something about the delays 21:29:21 <nielsm> though this is with the dual channel/dual track code disabled, since that causes a bunch of issues right now 21:30:23 *** gelignite has quit IRC 21:30:46 <peter1138> andythenorth, shall I PR it? 21:33:10 <peter1138> Zoolook is energetic. Maybe not the best music to be listening to before bed. 21:35:34 <peter1138> Mmm, that gouda has a lovely flavour. 21:36:14 <andythenorth> peter1138: PR it! 21:36:41 <Eddi|zuHause> bed? 21:37:17 <peter1138> Bed soon, rather than, say, 3am like last night. 21:37:51 <Eddi|zuHause> that never worked when i tried 21:37:51 <andythenorth> PR and run 21:38:16 <andythenorth> oh look in my diary 21:38:16 <peter1138> Eddi|zuHause, I'll get the kindle out for a change, instead of playing on the phone. 21:38:28 <andythenorth> 'risk register review' 21:38:39 <andythenorth> my glamorous life 21:38:55 <andythenorth> peter1138: I am reading Biggles :P 21:38:58 <andythenorth> for random reasons 21:43:21 <DorpsGek_II> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] PeterN opened pull request #7065: Change: Make ships stop and change direction slowly instead of instantly turning. https://git.io/fhWk0 21:44:34 <Eddi|zuHause> that immediately pops a bunch of thoughts in my mind 21:44:52 <DorpsGek_II> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] andythenorth commented on pull request #7065: Change: Make ships stop and change direction slowly instead of instantly turning. https://git.io/fhWkK 21:45:34 <Eddi|zuHause> like, river ships making 45° turns more quickly and stuff 21:45:51 <andythenorth> o_O 21:45:56 <LordAro> andythenorth: giv video 21:46:02 <andythenorth> oof 21:46:15 <peter1138> Eddi|zuHause, turn speed could be a property, currently it's fixed. 21:46:22 <andythenorth> acceleration :P 21:46:25 <andythenorth> draft 21:46:30 <andythenorth> air draft? o_O 21:46:52 <peter1138> (And not entirely predictable, as it uses the vehicle tick counter, so may not be starting from zero) 21:46:59 <peter1138> Draft beer? 21:47:00 <andythenorth> air draft is quite important for ships https://maritimecyprus.files.wordpress.com/2014/09/air-draft.jpg 21:47:07 <Eddi|zuHause> also unrelated: rivers need a flowing speed, so you can go faster downstream than upstream 21:47:22 <peter1138> They also need a direction, then. 21:47:44 <Eddi|zuHause> i meant a speed vector 21:47:54 <dwfreed> you mean a velocity 21:48:00 <Eddi|zuHause> same thing 21:48:10 <dwfreed> :P 21:48:24 <dwfreed> use the right physics term so we understand what you mean 21:49:06 <Eddi|zuHause> when you stop trying to make two words that mean the same thing into meaning different nuances 21:49:19 <Eddi|zuHause> that are entirely arbitrary 21:49:45 <dwfreed> physics has had these definitions for many, many years 21:50:04 <andythenorth> a velocity isn't a speed vector? :o 21:50:33 <dwfreed> I mean, it is, but a "speed vector" is a confusing way of saying it, when "velocity" already exists 21:51:31 <andythenorth> do rivers need a direction? 21:51:36 <andythenorth> can we give them some track bits 21:51:40 <andythenorth> ? 21:51:51 <Eddi|zuHause> dwfreed: how come "velocity vector" is then a word i find in my dictionary? 21:51:52 <andythenorth> oh we can do the direction as a byte? 21:52:18 <andythenorth> there are 8 directions? 21:52:35 <Eddi|zuHause> "velocity" in no way implies being vectorized any more than "speed" does... 21:52:55 <andythenorth> I was taught differently in physics eddi :o 21:53:00 <dwfreed> Eddi|zuHause: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Velocity 21:53:09 <dwfreed> "Velocity is a physical vector quantity" 21:53:10 <Eddi|zuHause> just the english language has this habit of making up two words for the same thing 21:53:19 <Eddi|zuHause> like Beef and Cow 21:53:27 <planetmaker> o/ 21:53:37 <Samu> im changing opf to be more intelligent at being bad 21:53:39 <Eddi|zuHause> and then pretending they don't mean the same thing 21:53:42 <andythenorth> except in a physics exam, I would usually specific 'velocity, as a vector' 21:53:48 <andythenorth> in plain speech 21:53:59 <andythenorth> because velocity and speed are used interchangeably in plain speecvh 21:54:11 <andythenorth> typing fail 21:54:50 <andythenorth> so ship has upstream and downstream speeds? 21:54:51 <AKTheKnight> Beef vs cow was because of the normans 21:54:56 <AKTheKnight> Beef was what you ate 21:55:00 <AKTheKnight> Cow was the live animal 21:55:23 <peter1138> And that ... was a nice soft cheese. 21:55:25 <andythenorth> cow is female 21:55:32 <andythenorth> beef is often steer 21:55:36 <andythenorth> or bullock 21:55:54 <Samu> opf is using track to increase it's depth 21:55:55 <peter1138> https://www.cawscenarth.co.uk/product-page/golden-cenarth 21:55:55 <dwfreed> often times farmers refer to their cows as "beef" when that's what they intend to turn them into 21:55:58 <peter1138> ^ One of them :D 21:56:02 <Samu> now i'm changing it to trackdir instead 21:56:10 <peter1138> Although I only had a small piece obviously, not the whole cheese. 21:56:19 <AKTheKnight> "small piece" 21:56:24 <AKTheKnight> Sounds like you ate the whole thing to me 21:56:39 <Eddi|zuHause> dwfreed: in original french, "boef" means both the animal and the meat 21:56:43 <Samu> should go at greater depths now on horz/vert tracks 21:57:01 <Samu> if that results at it being smarter, is what's i'm gonna discover now 21:57:31 <Eddi|zuHause> in german it's slightly more complicated, because both the term "Kuh" and "Rind" exist 21:57:46 <peter1138> AKTheKnight, about 30 grams, so not a lot. 21:58:10 <AKTheKnight> Thats not bad peter1138, I'm snacking on a bit of this now: https://www.nealsyarddairy.co.uk/products/keens-cheddar 21:58:26 *** frosch123 has quit IRC 21:59:11 <peter1138> Ooh decent looking cheddar. 21:59:39 <peter1138> Gotta admit I tend to just go with the supermarket stuff for cheddar but maybe I should change. 21:59:58 <peter1138> Nothing really special about the premium brands in supermarkets. 22:00:00 <Eddi|zuHause> dwfreed: anyway, that wikipage is in no way a convincing argument that "speed" always means scalar and "velocity" always means vector... 22:00:13 <AKTheKnight> Well tbh I took this from my parents after Christmas. I've got the Waitrose version not the neals yard one 22:00:40 <peter1138> Mine is from Tesco :p 22:01:03 <AKTheKnight> Haha I usually get an asda shop, they're not known for their premium cheese :P 22:02:16 <peter1138> Hmm, the other cheeses from that link look nice too. 22:02:18 <andythenorth> Eddi|zuHause: in plain English, they're used interchangeably 22:02:39 <andythenorth> but if you did an A-level Physics exam paper, you would be expected to treat one as scalar, and one as vector 22:02:45 <AKTheKnight> Yeah I think their only shop is next to borough market, they do some fancy cheese 22:02:46 <Eddi|zuHause> andythenorth: and we're not using plain english here? 22:02:48 <andythenorth> it's contextual 22:03:06 <andythenorth> it's on a par with the stupid BODMAS rules or whatever they're called 22:03:11 <andythenorth> for order of operations 22:03:25 <andythenorth> people who do it 'correctly' are adamant there is only one way 22:03:31 <Eddi|zuHause> in a scientific paper/exam i can make an arrow above the v symbol to make it clear i'm talking about the vector 22:03:33 <andythenorth> and then there's everyone else 22:03:45 <andythenorth> similar to the order of ops rules 22:03:53 <andythenorth> anyone doing engineering would put in the brackets 22:04:12 <andythenorth> and stop relying on people remembering dumbass acronyms 22:04:28 <Eddi|zuHause> people who think there is only one order of operator precedences haven't switched between programming languages enough 22:04:32 <peter1138> Right, night night. 22:04:37 <andythenorth> cheese grommit! 22:04:39 <AKTheKnight> night 22:04:41 <peter1138> MORE CHEESE 22:04:48 <Eddi|zuHause> i don't understand cheese 22:04:59 <peter1138> Why do my passions have to be unhealthy? 22:05:00 <milek7> v⃗ 22:05:07 <andythenorth> peter1138: don't expand that further pls :P 22:05:14 <dwfreed> andythenorth: PEMDAS 22:05:35 <andythenorth> I was made to feel stupid once for putting the brackets in 22:05:39 * andythenorth is still bitter 22:05:43 <peter1138> LEOBODNAR 22:05:47 <dwfreed> "Please Excuse My Dear Aunt Sally" 22:05:55 <andythenorth> I was told it was redundant, and wasted space 22:06:16 <Eddi|zuHause> mnemonics for stupid rules are even worse than the stupid rules themselves 22:06:29 <andythenorth> except for SOHCAHTOA 22:06:32 <andythenorth> the best 22:06:53 <andythenorth> trig is the best maths 22:07:19 <Eddi|zuHause> you haven't done functional analysis then :p 22:08:36 <Eddi|zuHause> "let's take all these concept about vectors and dimensions, throw it all out, and redefine it in counterintuitive ways to make it work for infinitely many dimensions" 22:09:02 <andythenorth> no I haven't 22:09:33 <andythenorth> I sat next to someone who did :P 22:09:43 <Eddi|zuHause> "what do you mean these spheres have all right angles on every surface point?" 22:09:58 <andythenorth> n-dimensional vectors in non-euclidean geometries 22:10:12 <Eddi|zuHause> no no 22:10:22 <Eddi|zuHause> n-dimensional is not infinite-dimensional :p 22:10:28 <Eddi|zuHause> you can make this even worse :p 22:10:30 <andythenorth> yes I see now 22:10:40 <andythenorth> that raises the game 22:10:53 <andythenorth> finitely, but also infinitely 22:11:02 <andythenorth> it's a single step from finite to infinite 22:11:13 <Eddi|zuHause> not to mention that there are different levels of infinite 22:11:31 <andythenorth> that can only be discussed in Thursdays 22:11:34 *** wodencafe has quit IRC 22:11:46 <andythenorth> child #1 watches videos about it 22:12:14 <andythenorth> why did I do Hilbert spaces in philosophy? 22:12:19 * andythenorth can't remember 22:12:38 <Eddi|zuHause> maths is the highest form of philosophy 22:13:32 <andythenorth> something about complex numbers and hilbert spaces 22:13:39 * andythenorth didn't really pay attention at the time 22:14:01 <Eddi|zuHause> you can also extend hilbert spaces to infinite dimensions 22:14:39 <andythenorth> something to do with decomposing the imaginary part 22:15:11 <andythenorth> my maths isn't as strong as it should be :P 22:15:47 <Eddi|zuHause> one of the "fun" bits about functional analysis: in "regular" maths you can make sums over infinitely many parts, as long as the "infinite" thing is countable. but in functional analysis you can generalize that even further, to sum over an uncountable infinite set, as long as only countably-many elements are non-zero 22:16:46 *** Progman has quit IRC 22:17:34 <Eddi|zuHause> andythenorth: complex numbers are a very easy special case of a hilbert space 22:20:36 <andythenorth> right bedtime 22:20:38 <andythenorth> bye 22:20:39 *** andythenorth has quit IRC 22:29:06 *** wodencafe has joined #openttd 22:41:19 <Samu> i think i made opf too smart now lol 22:41:54 <Samu> it's fun to test things on it 22:43:19 <Samu> im impressed 22:43:59 * LordAro tempted to make a PR removing OPF 22:44:00 <LordAro> :p 22:44:40 <Samu> no, i mean this tweak seems to have good results 22:44:50 <Samu> let me try the 5k ship map 22:47:25 <DorpsGek_II> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] LordAro updated pull request #7057: Fix: A few minor compile warnings under MinGW https://git.io/fhn6E 22:47:25 <Samu> i changed Track into Trackdir and adjusted accordingly, now it can increase it's search depth on horizontal and vertical, not just on diagonals 22:48:11 <Samu> the results are surprising me 22:48:26 <Samu> didn't expect anything of it, but it almost looks smart 22:49:26 <Samu> the way is was doing the searchs before were more fitting of a road vehicle 22:49:58 <LordAro> peter1138: #7065 needs rebasing to get CI results, btw 22:54:39 <Samu> uh oh, bad news, this "tweak" made it much more cpu insensive 22:55:02 <Samu> I used to get 90 ms avg, now it's 220 ms avg 22:56:12 <Samu> it goes through many asserts, i guess if i skip the asserts, it may be faster? 22:58:06 <dwfreed> asserts are generally removed in optimized builds 23:03:49 *** Wolf01 has quit IRC 23:03:53 <DorpsGek_II> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] J0anJosep commented on pull request #7065: Change: Make ships stop and change direction slowly instead of instantly turning. https://git.io/fhW3c 23:03:56 <Samu> testing without asserts, keks 23:05:02 <Samu> many of the asserts were repeating in similar functions 23:06:05 <Samu> looks like it wasn't the asserts 23:06:13 <Samu> it's still slow, oh well, I tried 23:07:44 <Samu> I wonder why 23:07:57 <Samu> because it can search deeper? 23:08:47 <dwfreed> this is where profiling comes in handy 23:10:00 <Samu> remaining depth was usually quickly decreased from 4 to 2 when heading into coasts 23:11:24 <Samu> it's not quickly decreased now, I suspect I "doubled" its depth, by letting it search deeper on more directions 23:11:35 <Samu> ok let's try a depth of 2 then, brb 23:14:12 *** nielsm has quit IRC 23:14:50 <Samu> holy smokes, what a huge difference 23:15:01 <Samu> from 220 ms avg to 4 ms avg 23:15:15 <Samu> looks like i still dont understand depth 23:17:20 <Samu> many lost ships now, gonna try 3 23:21:07 *** Thedarkb-T60 has quit IRC 23:21:51 <Samu> depth 3 also with lost ships 23:26:27 *** Flygon has joined #openttd 23:34:34 <Samu> nevermind, it's worse than i though 23:34:38 <Samu> clearly i dont get depth 23:41:02 <Samu> IsTileFlat is somewhat expensive for no apparent reason 23:53:57 *** Thedarkb-T60 has joined #openttd