Log for #openttd on 11th February 2019:
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00:02:50  <drac_boy> oh, thanks :-s
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00:19:21  <drac_boy> hmm thanks..found the csd freight wagons I was looking for .. seem that still wouldn't resolve to any webhost
00:31:08  <peter1138> samu,
00:31:54  <peter1138> samu, that may be enough to work, but I don't have a big savegame to test. It doesn't affect loading existing saves, at least.
00:40:00  <samu> yay
00:40:28  <samu> well, start 15 ludiai afterfix's
00:40:40  <samu> with 5000 road vehs and 5000 aircraft each
00:40:52  <samu> or wait, i may have given a save to you already
00:41:26  <samu> ah here it is
00:42:14  <drac_boy> 0_0 ... thats way too many for me to ever track at all :-|
00:42:17  <peter1138> Nah, I've gone to bed now.
01:15:24  <drac_boy> hm can't think of anything good to sort out on irc now so...meh..bye :->
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04:24:58  <DorpsGek_II> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] Eddi-z updated pull request #7213: Feature: BFS-based river generator
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06:48:56  <peter1138> ~Error: failed loading savegame: Order index 64000 out of range (64000)
06:48:59  <peter1138> :-)
06:55:21  <Eddi|zuHause> i think i still have a slight problem with the meandering randomness, where in some cases it gets overzealous and turns into DFS mode for a while
06:56:03  <Eddi|zuHause> resulting in silly zigzag lines
06:59:32  <Eddi|zuHause> and on smoother maps we need wider and less branch-y rivers
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07:36:57  <andythenorth> o/
07:46:39  <peter1138> Hmm, how can I tell if we're currently loading a savegame?
07:48:23  <andythenorth> flag?
07:54:30  <DorpsGek_II> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] PeterN opened pull request #7219: Change: Use SlErrorCorrupt() on pool index error when loading a savegame, instead of terminating.
08:16:47  <peter1138> That'll do.
08:16:55  <peter1138> Argh, bloody monitor
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08:20:29  <DorpsGek_II> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] PeterN opened pull request #7220: Change: Increase maximum number of orders from 64000 to ~16.7m.
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08:33:54  <DorpsGek_II> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] telk5093 opened issue #7221: Version information is not applied on
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09:03:12  <DorpsGek_II> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] telk5093 closed issue #7221: Is there any way to crawling a new version?
09:03:32  <DorpsGek_II> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] telk5093 commented on issue #7221: Is there any way to crawling a new version?
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10:07:14  <DorpsGek_II> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] Eddi-z commented on issue #7221: Is there any way to crawling a new version?
10:09:33  <DorpsGek_II> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] PeterN commented on pull request #7219: Change: Use SlErrorCorrupt() on pool index error when loading a savegame, instead of terminating.
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10:37:56  <DorpsGek_II> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] PeterN updated pull request #7219: Change: Use SlErrorCorrupt() on pool index error when loading a savegame, instead of terminating.
10:38:00  <peter1138> < back to work :p
10:39:00  * andythenorth already was :P
10:40:13  <peter1138> I was, had a meeting, then got distracted, oops.
10:40:27  <peter1138> "waiting for a compile" mmhmm
10:41:58  <andythenorth> time for eggs soon
10:49:49  <peter1138> I had an egg & 'bacon' muffin.
10:49:59  <peter1138> "Turkey rashers"
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10:52:04  <peter1138> Hello dragonhorseboy
10:53:48  <drac_boy> usual I just had to wonder but are planes still always either passenger/mail or all-mail .... no all-passenger for some reason, right?
10:54:13  <peter1138> I... don't know.
11:10:32  <Eddi|zuHause> drac_boy: yes
11:10:48  <andythenorth> XOR yes?
11:10:50  <Eddi|zuHause> drac_boy: turns out you can't legally mount seats in the baggage area
11:11:01  <andythenorth> oh IRL?
11:11:39  <Eddi|zuHause> drac_boy: but if you make a NewGRF, you're free to set the mail capacity to 0
11:11:55  <drac_boy> eddi well you're not suppose to fly 100+ cattle on a plane either but the refit window lets you do that tho ;)
11:12:42  * drac_boy still remembers doing that a few silly times in ttdx (quite a while before I knew about the patch which meant new planes tho)
11:12:53  <drac_boy> and hmm good thought, zero mail
11:18:16  <peter1138> heh
11:18:24  <peter1138> coal planes
11:18:57  <Eddi|zuHause> i did oil zeppelins once
11:24:03  <Eddi|zuHause> nobody on this internet seems to have my "read_hpet" performance problem... :/
11:29:01  <drac_boy> well peter, as a footnote coal planes actually is in the russia plane grf .. 1 or 2 huge planes with like a 300-400 tonnes capacity
11:29:29  <drac_boy> its been a very long time I had that grf I seem to forgot where it was sourced from but ah :)
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11:49:02  <DorpsGek_II> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] glx22 commented on pull request #7220: Change: Increase maximum number of orders from 64000 to ~16.7m.
12:02:14  <DorpsGek_II> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] PeterN commented on pull request #7220: Change: Increase maximum number of orders from 64000 to ~16.7m.
12:04:27  <drac_boy> hmm is that like a map-wide cap? for a silly moment there I was thinking 'who orders one train to stop at a balizzion stations?'
12:05:04  <peter1138> It's not map related...
12:05:08  <peter1138> But it is game-wide, yes.
12:05:24  <drac_boy> np
12:06:25  <peter1138> The order limit is reachable if you have lots of AIs not using shared orders :-)
12:06:42  <Eddi|zuHause> "deleting kernel-default" is a strange message to watch in the package manage
12:06:43  <Eddi|zuHause> r
12:07:09  <peter1138> oo
12:07:38  <Eddi|zuHause> well, i have multi-kernel enabled and clicked uninstall on some older versions :p
12:08:28  <peter1138> multi-kernel enabled... you're not using the one-true Linux OS then. (Debian)
12:08:28  <Eddi|zuHause> also, i'm by now desperate enough to try 5.0-rc2
12:08:48  <Eddi|zuHause> rc5
12:09:15  <peter1138> How's the rivers going, though?
12:09:21  <peter1138> It looks good in... some cases.
12:09:24  <Eddi|zuHause> and mesa 19.0.0-rc2
12:10:19  <Eddi|zuHause> i updated it earlier today with some tweaks
12:10:53  <Eddi|zuHause> still some odd cases
12:12:26  <Eddi|zuHause> 3 roads to take here: 1) clean up the code, 2) tweak the randomness in the priority queue, 3) consider different flow amount calculations and thresholds
12:13:10  <Eddi|zuHause> but... destroying my system right now..
12:13:14  <drac_boy> mesa? hmm what graphic thing you working on now?
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12:19:16  <andythenorth> I did something regrettable with sliding door sprites on EMUs :P
12:19:18  <andythenorth> in stations
12:19:26  <andythenorth> I will regret this level of detail
12:19:57  <peter1138> Sounds good to me.
12:20:16  <peter1138> Maybe it needs persistent storage.
12:20:19  <Eddi|zuHause> aren't the regretworthy things the best things, according to some philosophies?
12:21:21  <andythenorth> dunno
12:21:33  <andythenorth> peter1138: will it resolve sprites faster with persistent storage?
12:24:21  <peter1138> If you can use it as a cache and not have to query lots of vars every time, sure.
12:27:50  <drac_boy> hmm is it just me having a wisful thought or can you actually ensure a certain industry only works on/adjacent canal tiles? (versus the ocean tile)
12:28:19  <Eddi|zuHause> ok, my performance seems a bit better so far, but far from great
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12:33:15  <andythenorth> FWIW, I would cache sprite stuff if there was storage
12:33:55  <andythenorth> but eh seems like faff
12:36:55  <peter1138> Ideally we would cache it :p
12:37:27  <peter1138> But we'd need to know when to dirty the cache.
12:37:42  <peter1138> e.g. steam train animation == no cache
12:42:16  <Eddi|zuHause> aw, i think it's not really improved
12:46:14  <andythenorth> animation is the killer
12:46:21  <andythenorth> errr
12:46:24  <andythenorth> wait
12:46:34  <andythenorth> animation is just a set of cached frames
12:46:51  <peter1138> No it's not.
12:46:54  <andythenorth> we're not having blue wheels in game month June and red wheels in game month July
12:47:09  * andythenorth wavey hands
12:47:13  <peter1138> Each frame is a separate result.
12:47:16  <andythenorth> do people measure speed and stuff?
12:47:20  <peter1138> No.
12:47:28  <peter1138> Maybe?
12:47:34  <andythenorth> so cache a list of results?
12:47:38  <andythenorth> no animation, list is length 1?
12:47:46  <peter1138> Eh
12:48:13  <andythenorth> on the other hand, imagine the BAD FEATURES from persistent storage
12:48:14  <peter1138> Frame animation could be done by returning a spriteset with > 8 images, I suppose.
12:48:39  <peter1138> But no point as you have to calculate it every frame anyway
12:49:31  <andythenorth> we can't just cycle through results then :D
12:49:33  <andythenorth> 'just'
12:50:00  <peter1138> heh
12:51:15  <andythenorth> I haven't bothered animating the steam engines
12:51:29  <andythenorth> probably matters a lot more in higher res sprites
12:51:45  <peter1138> maybe
12:52:21  <andythenorth> cache unless animated?
12:52:29  <andythenorth> probably gets 98% of newgrfs covered
12:52:38  <andythenorth> do we know this is even slow? :P
12:52:59  <drac_boy> andy yeah a 8bit sprite only has like 2 or few frames for simple siderod but if you're doing 32bit it does indeed get tricky with the very high details (even crossrods if thats ever the case)
12:53:12  <drac_boy> just my own opinion :)
12:53:46  <peter1138> drac_boy, please don't confuse bit with bpp, and 32bpp with extra zoom.
12:54:04  <peter1138> drac_boy, extra zoom at 8bpp does, of course, warrant more detail just as much as extra zoom at 32bpp.
12:55:43  <peter1138>
12:56:56  <andythenorth> Horse 86% done
12:56:59  <andythenorth> was 93% eh
12:57:19  <peter1138> "8 bit" graphics refers to the type of graphics produced by 8 bit computers and consoles of the 80s, where memory was vastly more limited. The idea of using 8bpp in the 8 bit era was out of the question.
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12:57:55  <peter1138> (and most hardware couldn't do it, anyway)
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14:09:03  <drac_boy> hm think I'll just simply try detect any water in first place instead..ah well..lets see whats next
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14:42:24  <Eddi|zuHause> oh weather is great
14:44:02  <peter1138> You've gone from rivers to full on weather simulation? ;-)
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14:51:54  <peter1138> Hi
14:57:12  <nielsm> lo
15:04:05  <Eddi|zuHause> sure. :p
15:04:38  <nielsm> recent news have scientists claiming they trained bees to solve arithmetic problems with small integers... based on their data it sounds like one bee can handle about 3 bits worth of information, so I propose we now call a 3-bit quantity a 'beet'
15:05:51  <Eddi|zuHause> being able to count to seven has been a property observed in many animals
15:06:15  <drac_boy> what comes after seven? zero?
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15:06:38  <nielsm> undefined
15:07:28  <peter1138> 10
15:16:21  <Eddi|zuHause> 42.
15:17:07  <drac_boy> anyway have fun with bees .. I need to go out for today tho
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15:18:35  <andythenorth> is it nap time?
15:18:41  <andythenorth> I can't have more coffee
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15:27:24  <samu> im gonna test the 16.7 million orders
15:27:31  <andythenorth> :D
15:27:44  <andythenorth> Samu is regressions expert :P
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15:57:17  <peter1138> Hah
15:57:42  <peter1138> That savegame was horribly slow though, so it's not exactly much use :p
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16:18:28  <Eddi|zuHause> horribly slow is my second name
16:18:44  <andythenorth> I thought it was BFS? :|
16:19:18  <Eddi|zuHause> beyond fucking slow?
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16:41:50  <samu> i suspect town voronoi thing would speed up many AIs
16:41:57  <samu> if it ever gets implemented
16:42:48  <samu> calculate closest town is often used
16:44:04  <samu> one other thing I notice that gets slower is creating list of vehicles
16:44:14  <samu> for stations
16:44:35  <samu> list vehicles with x order in schedule, usually
16:45:10  <samu> initially it's fast, but as more and more vehicles get added into the world, it becomes heavy
16:45:23  <nielsm> are these also the AIs that do not use shared orders?
16:45:43  <samu> no, it's not due to that
16:46:07  <samu> it's more of a decision issue, to know whether to add or remove vehicles to routes
16:46:42  <nielsm> that's not what I was talking about
16:47:06  <nielsm> it might be slow if there are many unique orders lists
16:47:30  <nielsm> versus fewer unique orders lists shared among the same number of vehicles
16:47:54  <nielsm> since finding all orders involving a particular stations would involve visiting all orders lists
16:48:13  <samu> ah, maybe it's related
16:48:26  <samu> looks like it
16:48:53  <samu> but im not too sure if it even looks wether orders are shared
16:48:58  <nielsm> you should probably be badgering AI authors to fix their code so it uses shared orders
16:49:03  <samu> it goes through all vehicles
16:49:06  <samu> let me check code
16:50:25  <samu>
16:50:32  <samu> nop, doesn't care about shared orders
16:50:43  <nielsm> oh well
16:57:56  <samu> how to remove something from bananas?
16:58:49  <samu> I wanna remove Improved Oil Rig Layout
16:58:58  <samu> it's no longer needed for 1.9.0
17:01:55  <samu> Maximum OpenTTD version doesn't let me chose 1.8.0
17:02:11  <samu> can i use Custom? then set 1.8.0 manually? would that work?
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17:03:02  <samu> gonna try
17:05:38  <samu> Invalid value.
17:05:40  <samu> :/
17:06:04  <samu> doesn't let me
17:06:43  <DorpsGek_II> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] mattimat47 opened issue #7222: Terminal Start Network game not work: ./openttd -n
17:07:12  <samu> where do i report banana issues?
17:07:39  <samu> Maximum OpenTTD Version: Invalid value.
17:07:47  <samu> doesn't let me pick Custom with 1.8.0
17:08:47  <samu> halp
17:15:01  <samu> starting 15 ship ais, to quickly fill 64000 orders
17:15:13  <LordAro> so much for the issue template
17:17:09  <samu> maybe a bit of my own AI too, cus no shared orders
17:21:01  <samu> meh can only start 14 on this version
17:23:58  <nielsm> that issue is a dupe of an existing isn't it
17:26:11  <DorpsGek_II> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] nielsmh commented on issue #7222: Terminal Start Network game not work for Connect : ./openttd -n  Game Crash and show the load windows with: Load new grf ....
17:28:59  <samu> strange, random deviation is being added
17:29:04  <samu> to start_date = 0 yet
17:29:13  <samu> where did I miss it?
17:30:39  <DorpsGek_II> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] glx22 commented on issue #7222: Terminal Start Network game not work for Connect : ./openttd -n  Game Crash and show the load windows with: Load new grf ....
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17:38:41  <samu> we failed
17:43:34  <peter1138> If you tested an older version, it may just have set your start_date to 1.
17:44:05  <samu> no, it's calling from ScriptConfig instead of AIConfig
17:44:37  <glx> AIConfig is ScriptConfig
17:44:51  <glx> just extended
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17:46:31  <samu> MakeNewSettingsLive is called
17:46:35  <samu> _settings_game.ai_config[c] = new AIConfig(_settings_newgame.ai_config[c]);
17:46:57  <samu> it calls void ScriptConfig::AddRandomDeviation()
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17:47:17  <samu> that's not the random deviation it should be calling
17:47:42  <glx> this function is surcharged by AIConfig
17:53:35  <samu> so much for the assert
17:53:44  <samu> doesn't even get through it
17:55:38  <samu> surcharged?
17:55:43  <samu> what does that mean?
17:56:53  <nielsm> glx: do you mean overridden?
17:57:16  <glx> ah yes overridden is the right term
17:57:48  <samu> but it wasn't
17:57:52  <peter1138> No other 1.9.0-beta2 servers yet.
17:58:28  <samu> I had a reason to be suspicious about doing it in that place
17:59:04  <peter1138> MakeNewSettingsLive doesn't exist.
17:59:20  <peter1138> MakeNewgameSettingsLive does.
17:59:24  <samu> yes, that one
17:59:53  <peter1138> That deals with AIConfig, so there's no reason it'll be wrong.
18:00:04  <samu> but it is
18:00:07  <samu> test it
18:00:21  <peter1138> Under what conditions?
18:00:32  <samu> select an ai for the slot
18:00:36  <samu> start new game
18:00:42  <samu> boom random deviation
18:00:51  <samu> dont select random ai
18:00:55  <samu> select a real ai
18:01:07  <peter1138> No deviation for me.
18:01:12  <glx> but start_date won't be randomised
18:01:17  <glx> only other settings
18:01:25  <samu> it's doing it for me
18:02:06  <samu>
18:02:16  <glx> you can put some printf in both AddRandomDeviation
18:03:16  <samu> printf?
18:03:47  <glx> ha but it's the constructor
18:05:03  <samu> testing with random ai
18:05:04  <samu> brb
18:05:15  <glx> it's the copy constructor
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18:05:34  <glx> of course it calls the base AddRandomDeviation
18:05:51  <Gabda> hi
18:05:59  <peter1138> Why of course?
18:06:06  <glx> you need to take care of that in AIConfig::AIConfig()
18:06:28  <peter1138> Fun.
18:06:35  <glx> ScriptConfig::ScriptConfig(const ScriptConfig *config) calls this->AddRandomDeviation();
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18:07:40  <glx> but AIConfig(const AIConfig *config) : ScriptConfig(config) {}
18:08:11  <peter1138> Oh
18:08:21  <peter1138> I think I can see how to do it :-)
18:08:32  <samu> doesn't happen with random ai because for some reason, there is no list of settings yet
18:08:37  <samu> weird stuff
18:08:49  <glx> not weird, works as intended ;)
18:08:59  <samu> it should have start_date
18:09:04  <samu> this is all too weird
18:10:09  <peter1138> Testing :)
18:10:57  <DorpsGek_II> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] PeterN opened pull request #7223: Fix: Random start date was still applied when AI is not set to random.
18:11:30  <peter1138> Probably needs a comment, but test it please ;)
18:12:06  <peter1138> I was thinking it'd be difficult because start_date would already be deviated, but of course we have access to the original.
18:14:04  <glx> indeed it's the copy construtor, we have the original :)
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18:27:11  <samu> gonna test, brb
18:28:07  <peter1138> Bah, it's so hard to fit platforms into towns :/
18:35:03  <andythenorth> isn't it
18:35:12  <andythenorth> kinda the point though :)
18:35:17  <andythenorth> underground stations? o_O
18:35:57  <samu> nop, didn't fix it
18:36:22  <samu> it's still using the scriptconfig random deviation
18:38:52  <peter1138> Yes, it is using it but resetting the start_date afterwards.
18:39:11  <samu> oh, i see
18:40:57  <samu> it was random deviated to 0, I wonder if it wasn't
18:41:09  <peter1138> orig 0, ours 56, now 0
18:41:15  <peter1138> Seems to work.
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18:43:06  <samu> nice
18:43:19  <samu> looks like it is
18:44:15  <samu> retesting just to make sure
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18:44:35  <peter1138> Hmm, should I move try moving the constructor to ai_config.cpp instead, to avoid leaving this implementation detail in the header?
18:44:41  <peter1138> -move
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18:45:33  <supermop_work_> yo andythenorth
18:46:18  <andythenorth> yo
18:46:22  <supermop_work_> when am i supposed to use NG DMU?
18:46:23  <andythenorth> what's the go?
18:46:30  <andythenorth> well
18:46:44  <andythenorth> when you want to pretend you're on honeymoon in Corsica?
18:46:47  <andythenorth> obvs.
18:46:51  <supermop_work_> remote hotels produce too many people
18:47:11  <supermop_work_> (seems remote hotels produce more than non-remote)
18:47:40  <andythenorth> too many hotels what? :P
18:47:41  <andythenorth>
18:47:49  * andythenorth testing pax train moneymaking
18:48:09  <DorpsGek_II> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] PeterN updated pull request #7223: Fix: Random start date was still applied when AI is not set to random.
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18:48:32  <peter1138> Bit larger but I think it's nicer that way.
18:49:29  <andythenorth> stations peter1138 :)
18:49:47  <andythenorth> there are some 1 tile distant-join bits, catchment covers whole town
18:49:58  <andythenorth> (I think)
18:49:58  <peter1138> Out of town, yes.
18:50:12  <andythenorth> add walkability :P
18:50:13  <peter1138> I prefer not to station-spread-cheat ;(
18:50:22  <andythenorth> 'cheat' :D
18:50:29  <peter1138> Maybe George's bug would help that, heh.
18:50:43  <DorpsGek_II> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] glx22 approved pull request #7223: Fix: Random start date was still applied when AI is not set to random.
18:50:44  <peter1138> I have cargodist on so I just setup a bus network in town, but... busy busy!
18:51:44  <andythenorth> faff :P
18:51:56  <andythenorth> actually one thing that would be really helpful is configurable catchment size
18:52:03  <andythenorth> or even newgrf catchments :o
18:52:26  <andythenorth> 8 tile rail station catchments
18:52:27  <peter1138> Well
18:52:42  <peter1138> Let's say... stations should specificy a catchment size, and also have a different cost.
18:52:55  <andythenorth> yes
18:52:57  <peter1138> Build cost and maintenance cost.
18:53:22  <peter1138> So you could build an expensive station and have it catch a larger area.
18:53:23  <peter1138> Hmm
18:53:25  <andythenorth> it would also help the problem of fitting enough stations around industries
18:53:28  <peter1138> git checkout -b :p
18:53:31  <andythenorth> hmm
18:53:33  <samu> confirmed, it works1
18:53:36  <samu> gj
18:53:44  <andythenorth> so stations in town are hard because there's no gap
18:54:11  <peter1138> No gap?
18:54:16  <andythenorth> space
18:54:29  <peter1138> Oh
18:54:40  <peter1138> Hmm, so if we make it so that catchment size depends on each part...
18:54:44  <peter1138> Like George thought...
18:54:46  <andythenorth> and industries end up surrounded by station, with industry in the middle
18:54:56  <andythenorth> yeah
18:55:05  <andythenorth> both situations are kind irritating
18:55:06  <peter1138> Otherwise you would only need one piece of catchment-extending station, and the rest could be shit cheap stuff.
18:55:18  <andythenorth> I cheat for towns, but cheating for industries get confusing
18:55:45  <andythenorth> if I have multiple stations adjacent, I end up bulldozing the wrong one sometimes :P
18:55:59  <andythenorth> but multiple stations are needed to see waiting cargo sprites
18:56:04  <andythenorth> and because cdist is broken
18:56:14  <peter1138> Hmm.
18:56:27  <peter1138> Didn't we have a plan for that? :/
18:56:33  <andythenorth> I bet we did
18:56:47  <andythenorth> was it state machine?
18:56:50  <andythenorth> newgrf docks?
18:57:04  <andythenorth> something about stations-are-just-new-objects?
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18:57:25  <andythenorth> hmm just one game of tanks, then back to software
18:58:21  <peter1138> No, nothing stupid.
18:59:58  <DorpsGek_II> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] PeterN merged pull request #7223: Fix: Random start date was still applied when AI is not set to random.
19:00:28  <peter1138> Should I have spaghetti or wholewheat fusilli?
19:00:46  <peter1138> ^ That probably just missed the nightly :p
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19:02:10  <peter1138> Pasta to go with bolognese, so spaghetti is kinda the norm, but...
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19:17:18  <andythenorth> all kinds are valid
19:24:20  <DorpsGek_II> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] ThomasdenH updated pull request #7168: Fix CompanyEconomy documentation
19:24:57  <supermop_work_> peter1138: i did penne with arrabiata
19:25:14  <supermop_work_> but my arrabiata sauce is closer to a puttanesca
19:25:18  <DorpsGek_II> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] LordAro approved pull request #7168: Fix CompanyEconomy documentation
19:25:45  <DorpsGek_II> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] ThomasdenH commented on pull request #7168: Fix CompanyEconomy documentation
19:28:05  <andythenorth> supermop_work_: used that railcar yet?
19:28:07  <andythenorth> o_O
19:28:22  <andythenorth> also what version are you playing?  Alpha 4 has horrible run costs
19:28:44  <DorpsGek_II> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] LordAro dismissed a review for pull request #7168: Fix: CompanyEconomy documentation
19:32:48  <peter1138> I'm playing 1.9.0-beta2 ;)
19:33:14  <LordAro> :o
19:33:30  <peter1138> Someone joined my server.
19:36:59  <supermop_work_> 6 last night
19:37:11  <supermop_work_> started in 85 instead of 50
19:37:21  <supermop_work_> mostly MUs
19:37:39  <supermop_work_> waiting for enough cash to buy some 225s
19:38:15  <supermop_work_> i have one NG train taking apples to a cider press
19:38:50  <supermop_work_> what railfreight sector was 'cider apples'?
19:39:11  <supermop_work_> i have it as grey and dark blue at the moment
19:40:32  <andythenorth> supermop_work_: probably orange and orange
19:40:32  <andythenorth>
19:40:36  <andythenorth> ^ actual RL colours
19:40:51  <andythenorth> Cheddar Valley
19:45:42  <andythenorth> peter1138: so also station tiles that improve rating :P
19:45:57  <peter1138> Hmm
19:46:24  <andythenorth> probably about as pointless as brake vans tbh
19:46:34  <andythenorth> you either build those tiles everywhere, or not at all :P
19:46:39  <andythenorth> no gameplay value
19:48:21  <peter1138> Currently that describes all of newstations :p
19:52:40  <andythenorth> eh
19:52:47  <andythenorth> one thing
19:52:58  <andythenorth> ability to route to specific platform(s)
19:53:15  <andythenorth> maybe by embedding a waypoint
19:53:15  <peter1138> Hmm
19:53:46  <andythenorth> bit realisms
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20:07:26  <peter1138> 70g fruitcake o_O
20:07:35  <peter1138> So dense and heavy.
20:07:40  <peter1138> So tasty.
20:09:30  <andythenorth> rice and lamb and lettuce
20:09:44  <peter1138> Had some corn on the cob as well.
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20:21:50  <DorpsGek_II> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] mattimat47 commented on issue #7222: Terminal Start Network game not work for Connect : ./openttd -n  Game Crash and show the load windows with: Load new grf ....
20:23:14  <DorpsGek_II> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] nielsmh commented on issue #7222: Terminal Start Network game not work for Connect : ./openttd -n  Game Crash and show the load windows with: Load new grf ....
20:25:54  <LordAro> didn't even know about #6619
20:27:00  <peter1138> andythenorth probably closed it
20:27:08  <glx> no it's not closed
20:27:29  <glx> but it should since a duplicate has been fixed
20:28:49  <LordAro> mm
20:29:33  <peter1138> Hmm.
20:31:07  <andythenorth> I should close everything
20:37:33  <peter1138> Nah.
20:37:36  <peter1138> Approve everything.
20:37:49  <peter1138> So guys, NRT AI interface?
20:37:58  <peter1138> Do I need to split road and tram up?
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20:41:33  <peter1138> That was a suggestion from frosch123
20:41:46  <peter1138> I'm not sure if it was a suggestion or a "this needs to happen"
20:42:26  <DorpsGek_II> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] mattimat47 commented on issue #7222: Terminal Start Network game not work for Connect : ./openttd -n  Game Crash and show the load windows with: Load new grf ....
20:42:30  <DorpsGek_II> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] mattimat47 closed issue #7222: Terminal Start Network game not work for Connect : ./openttd -n  Game Crash and show the load windows with: Load new grf ....
20:42:51  <frosch123> it's the only idea i came up with
20:43:17  <frosch123> (except sub-sub-sub-sub-vehicle-types :p)
20:43:32  <peter1138> What I've done so far has road type and road sub type exposed.
20:43:48  <peter1138> So it'll work, but...
20:44:46  <peter1138> Splitting them means duplicating a ton of stuff elsewhere, bridges for example.
20:45:21  <DorpsGek_II> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] glx22 closed issue #6619: Games freezes at start-up if -n command line option is used.
20:45:36  <DorpsGek_II> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] glx22 commented on issue #6619: Games freezes at start-up if -n command line option is used.
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20:50:57  <frosch123> is there any ai author still active?
20:51:04  <frosch123> @seen zuu
20:51:04  <DorpsGek> frosch123: zuu was last seen in #openttd 6 weeks, 4 days, 19 hours, 40 minutes, and 20 seconds ago: <Zuu> So any data that is slow to determine for saving has to be pre-cached already before Save() is called. Load is easier, just save the data to this._save and handle it in Start() and you are good.
20:51:30  <frosch123> there is wormnest, no idea whether still active
20:54:29  <LordAro> do i count? :p
20:55:21  <frosch123> when was the last update to darloro?
20:55:57  <LordAro> i checked recently actually
20:56:04  <LordAro> turns out i did some stuff only 3 years ago!
20:56:32  <frosch123> sounds like when i check my ottd work :p
20:56:55  <LordAro> hehe
21:04:19  <peter1138> :D
21:16:14  <peter1138> LordAro, so what makes sense from your perspective?
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21:19:14  <LordAro> peter1138: uh
21:20:55  <DorpsGek_II> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] ldpl commented on pull request #7120: Codechange: Improve performance of closest town lookups with cache
21:21:59  <peter1138> BC
21:23:42  <frosch123> one could also throw out tramtypes and make "tram" a single special roadtype
21:24:10  <peter1138> Um
21:24:15  <LordAro> so, NRT essentially makes roads & tram tracks as GRF-controllable as railtypes, right? Is there any particular reason why the road interface couldn't mirror the rail interface?
21:24:53  <peter1138> currently road types are split into road and tram
21:24:53  <frosch123> LordAro: road and tram are constructed independently
21:25:00  <frosch123> like rail and road
21:25:27  <peter1138> but the internal api is not split
21:25:43  <peter1138> internally it is two parameters, road/tram and subtype./
21:26:05  <LordAro> is there a particular reason that was done?
21:26:46  <peter1138> pass
21:26:59  <frosch123> LordAro: what part do you mean?
21:27:07  <LordAro> road/tram split
21:27:17  <frosch123> you can have road and tram on the same tile
21:27:22  <frosch123> they are independent
21:28:03  <frosch123> roadvehicles and trams also move differently when reversing
21:28:24  <frosch123> in theory subtypes can be used to model different poweredness
21:28:37  <frosch123> but actually roadtypes are used to model eye candy
21:28:43  <frosch123> while tramtypes are not used at all
21:28:50  <peter1138> not used at all?
21:28:52  <frosch123> (except to hide catenary for andy)
21:29:45  <frosch123> peter1138: that's my number one reason why i abandoned nrt 2/3? years  ago. tramtypes are just pointless
21:30:34  <frosch123> when there is road present, tramtypes affect only a few pixels on the tile
21:31:31  <peter1138> Maybe there's more now than 2/3 years ago.
21:32:01  <frosch123> are there tramtypes?
21:32:07  <peter1138> Yes
21:32:33  <frosch123> that kind of surprises me :p
21:32:46  <peter1138> It is, of course, mostly eyecandy and speed limits.
21:33:17  <peter1138> So yeah, to say it's unused is not quite fiar.
21:33:20  <peter1138> *fair
21:34:18  <andythenorth> I did start with a patch that hid catenary
21:34:21  <frosch123> so, stuff happened last year :p
21:34:24  <andythenorth> it kinda worked
21:34:35  <frosch123> i stopped forum a year ago, because nothing was happening :)
21:34:39  <andythenorth> then we talked ourselves into NRT :P
21:34:49  <peter1138> Error: Assertion failed at line 193 of /home/petern/Projects/OpenTTD/src/road.h: rtid.IsValid()
21:34:53  <peter1138> Well, that's not so good :p
21:37:33  <peter1138> There's more enough newgrfs about that changing how it works now is going to annoy people.
21:42:54  <peter1138> Ok, found it.
21:44:26  <DorpsGek_II> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] PeterN updated pull request #6811: Feature: Add NotRoadTypes (NRT)
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21:52:20  * andythenorth pixels
22:01:26  <Wormnest> frosch123: I consider myself still active only the last thing I did was a year ago :)
22:03:00  <supermop_work_> frosch123: i certainly used tramtypes
22:03:16  <andythenorth> I will use tramtypes
22:03:23  <andythenorth> I didn't yet because stuff and things
22:03:35  <frosch123> supermop_work_: i checked forums, i found a tramtype grf from last month
22:03:46  <frosch123> so, to me tramtype grfs are a new thing
22:04:12  <supermop_work_> unspooled has powered and unpowered tracks
22:04:24  <supermop_work_> and powered and unpowered roads
22:04:32  <andythenorth> tram, electrified tram, industrial railway (feldbahn), electrified industrial railway
22:04:35  <andythenorth> HEQS rides again!
22:04:38  <supermop_work_> and both of various speeds
22:04:50  <peter1138> And we even fixed some bugs ;p
22:04:56  * andythenorth wonders if funicular will work :P
22:05:08  <andythenorth> 10,000HP, 10mph
22:05:20  <samu> how is a #opcode calculated?
22:05:36  <supermop_work_> frosch123:
22:06:11  <supermop_work_> i was using tramtypes a year+ ago
22:06:24  <samu> i've been wondering if #opcodes could be a lower value, lower than 5000
22:06:29  <supermop_work_> i guess people really didn't give a shit
22:07:03  <peter1138> I do.
22:07:10  <peter1138> I think I'm outnumbered on 1.9 though
22:07:13  <samu> I found that pathfinding is usually limited by competitor speed rather than #opcodes
22:09:22  <LordAro> build it and they will come
22:09:24  <LordAro> or something
22:09:48  <andythenorth> 1.9.5 :P
22:09:53  <andythenorth> October
22:09:56  <peter1138> Ew
22:09:59  <andythenorth> TB did mention maybe releasing more often
22:10:36  <andythenorth> in 0.6.x days releases seemed....frequent
22:10:48  <samu> gonna edit the lower limit of #opcodes, wanna experiment with it
22:11:18  <frosch123> they weren't
22:11:34  <frosch123> 1 branch per year was started with 0.6
22:11:50  <frosch123> 0.5 and 0.4 took longer
22:12:12  <frosch123> also, the changelog is not that long that it makes sense to branch more often
22:12:22  <frosch123> unless you want to abandon branching and just release from master
22:16:54  <supermop_work_> peter1138: my main motivation in trying to figure out how to make a NRT grf was to try to get a critical mass of users/testers, and help encourage NRT moving forward
22:18:07  <frosch123> apparently you succeeded :)
22:22:51  <andythenorth> such bed :)
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22:28:56  <DorpsGek_II> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] M3Henry updated pull request #7165: [core] Implement SmallVector using std::vector
22:32:16  <DorpsGek_II> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] Moth-Tolias commented on pull request #7120: Codechange: Improve performance of closest town lookups with cache
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22:33:05  <samu> testing 500 #opcodes
22:33:12  <samu> with very fast build speed
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22:37:29  <samu> over 40 fps with 14 AIs
22:37:35  <samu> fast forward mode
22:37:48  <samu> not bad, but seems that the AIs are mostly asleep
22:38:01  <samu> map is also 4kx4k
22:39:52  <Eddi|zuHause> <peter1138> ^ That probably just missed the nightly :p <-- i thought the nightly is forked like an hour earlier now?
22:40:16  <peter1138> I have no idea.
22:40:52  <peter1138> Hmm, nope, it made it.
22:41:42  <Eddi|zuHause> <andythenorth> peter1138: so also station tiles that improve rating :P <-- not necessarily "improve rating" but "reduce rating decay"?
22:43:54  <Eddi|zuHause> together with a rating rework so it is less of a "have always a train waiting" and instead a "transport all cargo"
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23:05:52  <samu> hmm video scrolling is a bit slower than it used to be
23:06:22  <samu> when fully zoomed out
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23:15:11  <samu> looks like 500 opcodes is too little
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23:26:59  <samu> trying with 1500 opcodes
23:28:35  <samu> 1500 opcodes is already below 33 fps
23:32:26  <samu> release every month?
23:32:34  <samu> 1.9.4
23:32:37  <samu> 1.9.5
23:32:43  <samu> 1.9.12

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