Log for #openttd on 23rd February 2019:
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00:35:16  <peter1138> Hmm, CPU usage up :/
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00:48:47  <drac_boy> hi there .. historic question: was 3-axle freight wagons generally only for uk milks or did it abound anywhere else as well? (baggage cars kinda doesn't count in this sorry)
01:00:54  <drac_boy> also just had to wonder after friend asked me. is this just a selective usercase or is there any reason why osx doesn't react to ctrl+apple+c but rather ctrl+option+c instead for the cheat dialog
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01:40:17  <peter1138> hi
01:41:55  <drac_boy> hi superpeter ;) heheh
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02:36:56  <drac_boy> anyway going sleep soon here
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02:43:24  <Samu> subtract_input, add_output, i finally start to see how this works
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02:58:54  <Samu> enum IndustryCallbackMask {
03:08:17  <peter1138> What about it?
03:14:48  <DorpsGek_II> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] PeterN opened pull request #7265: Fix #7004: Mark linkgraph dirty to be rebuilt on next draw call. https://git.io/fhFpA
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03:31:21  <Samu> there may be a way to do what I want
03:32:00  <Samu> will have to think about it for tomorrow
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06:42:44  <Alberth> moibn
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07:40:39  <andythenorth> so this won't work :( https://github.com/OpenTTD/OpenTTD/pull/7147
07:40:54  <andythenorth> because of vehicle exclusive previews
07:42:49  <peter1138> Hmm?
07:44:23  <andythenorth> vehicle is offered as preview -> vehicle is missing dependencies -> vehicle is uselss
07:44:26  <andythenorth> +e
07:44:58  <andythenorth> one argument might that the newgrf is broken in that case
07:45:45  <planetmaker> moin
07:45:55  <peter1138> Hmm "if intro date is the same include dependencies in preview"
07:45:56  <planetmaker> exclusive preview is only offered for engines iirc
07:46:08  <peter1138> Oh. Good point.
07:46:11  <planetmaker> if another one uses wagons w/o an engine... is it a fail?
07:49:05  <DorpsGek_II> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] PeterN commented on pull request #7265: Fix #7004: Mark linkgraph dirty to be rebuilt on next draw call. https://git.io/fhFj1
07:49:49  <andythenorth> designing vehicles that depend on each other is a fail
07:50:03  <peter1138> Hmm.
07:50:19  <andythenorth> but that means abandoning wagon speed limits
07:50:27  <planetmaker> andythenorth> designing vehicles that depend on each other is a fail <-- I agree. Might be different for wagons. But vehicles... yes
07:50:51  <peter1138> Heh
07:51:09  <planetmaker> s/vehicles/self-powered vehicles/
07:51:15  <peter1138> So basically...
07:51:19  <nielsm> are unpowered wagons ever offered for exclusive trial?
07:51:25  <andythenorth> no
07:51:27  <peter1138> "because of vehicle exclusive previews" is a non-issue then?
07:51:45  <andythenorth> well it depends how completionist we want to be :P
07:52:02  <peter1138> Well.
07:52:05  <nielsm> so would have to add another property to vehicles "always introduce together with" somehow?
07:52:23  <andythenorth> I chose the words "it won't work" carefully :P
07:52:33  <nielsm> or "never introduce without X being available"
07:52:44  <andythenorth> I'm still in favour of synchronising the dates using the seed
07:53:11  <andythenorth> I just thought of the edge case it doesn't meet :P
07:54:34  <andythenorth> nielsm: an older idea was exactly a property, so that if one vehicle becomes available, other vehicles are also triggered for introduction
07:54:48  <andythenorth> the Eddi|zuHause solution is pretty neat because no spec extension needed
07:55:19  <andythenorth> zero-effort for authors, nml maintainer etc
07:55:31  <peter1138> The property idea is too rigid as well.
07:56:44  <andythenorth> we _could_ infer wagon introduction
07:56:55  <andythenorth> for set(wagons)
07:57:07  <andythenorth> where intro date matches exactly set(engines)
07:57:17  <andythenorth> if the engine is available, introduce the wagon
07:57:34  <andythenorth> the engine / any engine in the set /s
07:57:46  <planetmaker> we can only set introduction years, can we?
07:57:57  <andythenorth> it's a date afaik
07:58:04  <DorpsGek_II> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] PeterN updated pull request #7225: Add: Various AI/GS functions that may be useful. https://git.io/fh7Gz
07:58:09  <andythenorth> https://newgrf-specs.tt-wiki.net/wiki/Action0/Vehicles#Date_of_introduction
07:58:23  <planetmaker> oh.
07:58:28  <andythenorth> some of us are in the habit of only setting year :P
07:58:30  <planetmaker> oh, well. Then it's a total non-issue
07:58:42  <planetmaker> same date = all together, irrespective of the newgrf they come from
07:58:49  <planetmaker> different date = differently randomized
07:58:51  <peter1138> planetmaker, there's two.
07:59:05  <andythenorth> planetmaker that's what eddi's patch is intended to do yes
07:59:29  <peter1138> Hmm, no, there isn't two.
07:59:41  <peter1138> Well, there are two, but one is relative to 1920, the other is relative to 0
07:59:46  <peter1138> But both are days.
07:59:47  <andythenorth> but both in days?
07:59:49  <andythenorth> yes
07:59:50  <planetmaker> peter1138, two properties. But they map to the same internal one
08:00:05  <planetmaker> and granularity is the same, just offset
08:00:06  <peter1138> planetmaker, yeah, one of them might've been years rather than days, I meant.
08:00:09  <peter1138> But it's not :-)
08:00:17  <planetmaker> :)
08:00:21  <DorpsGek_II> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] GabdaZM commented on pull request #7250: K-d tree data structure for spatial lookups https://git.io/fhFj5
08:01:50  <andythenorth> so how about a flag to exclude vehicles from exclusive preview offers? o_O
08:01:59  <andythenorth> fixing symptom not cause? o_O
08:02:42  <planetmaker> ok... how does exclusive preview now pose difficulty?
08:02:57  <andythenorth> engines introduced with no wagons available
08:03:02  <planetmaker> if we say "same date = always together" that might apply to exclusive preview, too
08:03:07  <planetmaker> including wagons
08:03:08  <DorpsGek_II> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] GabdaZM commented on pull request #7250: K-d tree data structure for spatial lookups https://git.io/fhFjN
08:03:14  <planetmaker> for that player
08:03:21  <andythenorth> to be clear it's an edge case I'm describing, no kittens die
08:03:32  <planetmaker> meow!
08:04:00  <andythenorth> it improves the common case, and occasionally the game will slap the player around the face a bit with preview
08:04:01  <planetmaker> but I think I'm missing the details how exclusive preview is handled internally :)
08:04:30  <planetmaker> actually it would be cool to have per-company introduction dates :D
08:04:41  <planetmaker> especially for scenario purposes
08:05:05  <planetmaker> that would - at the same time - cover exclusive previews
08:06:31  <planetmaker> (but I'm side-tracking)
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08:07:50  <Gabda> hi
08:07:51  <peter1138> Well that sounds something that should be GS functionality.
08:09:13  <DorpsGek_II> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] nielsmh commented on pull request #7250: K-d tree data structure for spatial lookups https://git.io/fhFjj
08:09:40  <DorpsGek_II> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] PeterN commented on pull request #7250: K-d tree data structure for spatial lookups https://git.io/fhbee
08:09:46  <planetmaker> peter1138, yes, that's how I see it, too. Exposed to GS only. But it's not internally supported yet
08:10:08  <nielsm> peter1138: heh pulling in opposite directions :)
08:10:26  <peter1138> I've editted mine now.
08:11:19  <peter1138> planetmaker, hmm, I guess these little details are awkward because the GS only runs on the server.
08:11:46  <peter1138> So anything you want to change has to be a network command... and GS can only do one command per tick. Hmm.
08:12:19  <planetmaker> na, it's perpendicular things, nielsm :)
08:12:31  <nielsm> or you'd have to pack more data in the string parameter as an abuse
08:12:46  <nielsm> (if that's even possible)
08:14:26  <andythenorth> so maybe we can finish 16-cargo nmlc support today :)
08:14:29  * andythenorth hopes
08:15:14  <nielsm> https://0x0.st/z-ss.jpg  <-- with max width 500 heuristic this is the brokenness-level
08:15:50  <nielsm> problem is that the width to search really depends on font size as well
08:17:05  <peter1138> font size and zoom level.
08:17:48  <peter1138> Well, zoom level affects the bounds you need to search, at least.
08:18:45  <peter1138> andythenorth, so maybe we can approve nrt today :)
08:19:16  <nielsm> maybe beta3 or rc1 should be the focus, really
08:19:19  <nielsm> ?
08:20:10  <peter1138> There's a few PRs I'd like to get in, not including my own obviously.
08:20:29  <peter1138> I suppose I better get cycling-dressed.
08:20:49  <nielsm> are they all on the milestone list? https://github.com/OpenTTD/OpenTTD/milestones/1.9.0
08:21:01  <peter1138> Probably not.
08:21:31  <peter1138> Ok, I'll mark them.
08:24:15  <nielsm> I'll do some squashing of ai-framerate
08:26:51  <DorpsGek_II> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] PeterN approved pull request #7003: Feature #6918: Add option to adjust font size separately from GUI size. https://git.io/fhbe3
08:27:12  <nielsm> hmm I can't click on the last item in the list
08:27:49  <DorpsGek_II> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] PeterN closed issue #6918: Add option to adjust font size separately from GUI size. https://git.io/fhbes
08:27:50  <DorpsGek_II> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] PeterN merged pull request #7003: Feature #6918: Add option to adjust font size separately from GUI size. https://git.io/fhLFX
08:27:57  <peter1138> nielsm, o
08:32:34  <DorpsGek_II> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] PeterN commented on pull request #6931: Change: Prevent town growth from blocking ships https://git.io/fhbeZ
08:35:39  <nielsm> fixed that
08:45:28  <peter1138> Ok, well I'm off.
08:46:27  <andythenorth> :)
08:50:31  <Alberth> hai hai
08:53:50  <andythenorth> moin
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09:15:34  <LordAro> moin was one of the dwarves in the hobbit, right?
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09:35:33  <andythenorth> Alberth: I sent forum DM btw ;)
09:36:53  <Alberth> ah, ok, thanks
09:37:15  <Alberth> I cloned the repo, but that's all I did so far
09:39:11  <andythenorth> not sure if hg revs will ever line up with git numeric revs
09:42:52  <andythenorth> oof
09:43:01  <andythenorth> my global .gitignore ignores 'bin'
09:43:13  <andythenorth> because python projects
09:43:17  <andythenorth> where bin is generated
09:51:41  <_dp_> yeah, per company introduction dates, patch I never did
09:51:59  <_dp_> it's actually quite easy as flags are already there only API is missing
09:52:15  <_dp_> and 1command/tick is not a big issue here as not many commands are needed
09:52:36  <_dp_> it's not like updating company goals where every line is a command so it takes forever
09:54:04  <Eddi|zuHause> <andythenorth> not sure if hg revs will ever line up with git numeric revs <-- unlikely, because hg counts commits that are not direct ancestors. but you could apply an arbitrary offset for the conversion...
09:55:51  <andythenorth> yup
10:16:37  <TrueBrain> morning
10:17:12  <LordAro> o/
10:17:19  <LordAro> beta3 this weekend?
10:17:47  <LordAro> with or without merging nrt?
10:18:23  <TrueBrain> NRT for after 1.9, right? :)
10:18:28  <TrueBrain> bit late to add new shit like that now :D
10:18:44  <TrueBrain> beta3 or RC1?
10:19:13  <LordAro> peter1138 wanted to add it sooner rather than later - thought another year for 1.10 was too long
10:19:37  <LordAro> it's been reasonably well tested by this point, right?
10:19:47  <TrueBrain> is it?
10:19:55  <TrueBrain> but nobody is saying a new release should take a year
10:20:10  <Eddi|zuHause> "well tested" has been a terrible argument, historically :p
10:20:11  <TrueBrain> nothing wrong with pushing a new release in 6 months .. or 3 months ..
10:20:19  <_dp_> imo it's better to release 1.10 early than include something that big at beta stage
10:20:25  <TrueBrain> ^^
10:20:35  <TrueBrain> once you release your first beta, you should be in a feature freeze
10:20:42  <TrueBrain> personally, I thought that was the whole point of the beta :)
10:20:47  <TrueBrain> also the reason we had a milestone etc
10:21:49  <LordAro> i thought that was RC stage, i.e. when it branches
10:22:01  <LordAro> until then, the betas are just renamed trunk
10:22:09  <TrueBrain> what I thought we were doing: push out 1.9 ASAP, so we can merge NRT :)
10:22:09  <LordAro> /master
10:22:31  <LordAro> but if you're happy to break "the release cycle", then ok :)
10:22:34  <TrueBrain> personally, I would pick up the last few things in the 1.9 milestone, and get it out there :)
10:22:39  <LordAro> it can go in the devblog
10:22:54  <TrueBrain> the "release cycle" only exists because people maintainted it
10:23:01  <LordAro> stable releases not in april, whatever next
10:23:04  <LordAro> :p
10:23:11  <TrueBrain> the first 1st of April was a joke on a joke ..
10:23:18  <TrueBrain> the second time was funny because .. it was funny
10:23:23  <TrueBrain> the third time, it enraged a few people
10:23:28  <TrueBrain> after that ... it was "a rule"
10:23:31  <TrueBrain> funny how that works :P
10:23:59  <TrueBrain> if we do release more often, we should consider an auto-updater btw :P
10:24:12  <_dp_> it kinda fit a development tempo last few years as there weren't much features to include even after a year
10:24:24  <TrueBrain> but please, lets not merge NRT, because "otherwise it takes so long" .. rushing shit is never a good sign :)
10:24:53  <TrueBrain> I think it would be fair to make a new release when ever something big happened
10:25:01  <TrueBrain> (lets call them .. feature releases!)
10:25:41  <LordAro> autoupdaters are hard, and only really worth doing on windows anyway
10:25:56  <LordAro> i'd settle for a message on the mainscreen though
10:26:00  <TrueBrain> that reminds me, I want Steam! :P
10:26:55  <Eddi|zuHause> mainscreen turn on
10:27:40  <TrueBrain> hmm, new Azure Pipelines version still isn't rolled out .. 20 days after changelog was published
10:27:46  <TrueBrain> this random time between those is annoying
10:27:48  * LordAro adds NRT to a 1.10 milestone
10:27:53  <TrueBrain> LordAro: or .. 2.0? :D
10:28:06  <LordAro> pfft.
10:28:09  <TrueBrain> :D
10:28:14  <TrueBrain> 4 entries in the 1.9 milestone
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10:29:13  <TrueBrain> ICU is the biggest in there, I guess
10:29:54  <TrueBrain> btw, LordAro, did you ever manage to get the website PR finished somewhat? (the one where you remove most of the icons :D)
10:30:04  <TrueBrain> (honest question out of interest; not to push you or anything)
10:30:12  <LordAro> ICU will probably slip to 1.10, tbh
10:30:28  <LordAro> pango is hard
10:30:30  <LordAro> or whatever
10:30:51  <TrueBrain> fine by me :)
10:31:13  <LordAro> i imagine blathjis might complain :p
10:31:28  <DorpsGek_II> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] nielsmh updated pull request #7178: Add AI and GS to framerate window https://git.io/fhSMz
10:31:43  <TrueBrain> I think everyone agrees we should replace it; but .. if it is not happening now, it is not happening now :)
10:32:01  * andythenorth arrives late
10:32:04  <LordAro> can't remember how far i got with the website, but it was definitely still a work in progress
10:32:05  <andythenorth> no NRT for 1.9.0
10:32:06  <DorpsGek_II> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] nielsmh commented on pull request #7178: Add AI and GS to framerate window https://git.io/fhbvk
10:32:17  <andythenorth> push it ASAP to nightlies
10:32:22  <andythenorth> do a 1.10 in 3 months
10:32:34  <LordAro> andythenorth: i put 1.10 as October
10:32:41  <LordAro> but ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
10:32:46  <andythenorth> well maybe
10:33:00  <andythenorth> anyway we're making a game not a religion, April 1 is not sacred :)
10:33:01  <TrueBrain> if we automate releases a bit more, it also becomes easier to release
10:33:40  <LordAro> so... RC1 this weekend?
10:33:49  <LordAro> does a month of RC(s) sound reasonable?
10:34:01  <nielsm> yeah
10:34:21  <LordAro> gives us enough time to work out how branch commits are going to work as well :)
10:34:27  <TrueBrain> yup
10:34:28  <nielsm> https://github.com/OpenTTD/OpenTTD/pull/7109  <- this one slipping?
10:34:31  <LordAro> (i imagine cherry-picking, but)
10:34:43  <TrueBrain> cherry-picking is best, otherwise merging, I guess
10:34:59  <LordAro> nielsm: looks like someone needs to answer the question
10:35:14  <LordAro> i think the answer is "yes" ?
10:37:10  <TrueBrain> so .. what else is there to do .. hmm ..
10:37:19  <TrueBrain> guess I should make a REST API for "download versions"
10:38:14  <TrueBrain> _dp_: I spammed your PMs, but never got a reply; you figured out how to build via Azure Pipelines yourself? :D
10:39:47  <TrueBrain> hmm .. what is the easiest way to create a REST API these days ..
10:40:12  <LordAro> something in python, to be consistent, presumably?
10:40:20  * LordAro looks at jekyll
10:40:22  <LordAro> consistentish
10:40:38  <TrueBrain> :P
10:40:47  <TrueBrain> Flask I guess ... how to document the API ..
10:40:51  <TrueBrain> Swagger? RAML?
10:41:12  <LordAro> swagger's pretty nice
10:41:32  <LordAro> as long as you go swagger -> implementation, rather than the other way around
10:41:41  <TrueBrain> yeah .. that is always the annoying part
10:41:46  <TrueBrain> you rather have documentation from your code
10:41:49  <TrueBrain> as it is .. more up-to-date :D
10:41:50  <LordAro> http://michal.karzynski.pl/blog/2016/06/19/building-beautiful-restful-apis-using-flask-swagger-ui-flask-restplus/ there you go
10:41:52  <LordAro> :)
10:42:35  <DorpsGek_II> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] nielsmh approved pull request #7187: Change: Add scrollbar to cargo legend in cargo payment rates window. https://git.io/fhbvY
10:42:51  <TrueBrain> yeah .. Flask-RESTPlus, flask-apispec, ...
10:43:05  <TrueBrain> always difficult to find one that is both maintained and workable :P
10:43:13  <LordAro> mm
10:43:48  <TrueBrain> flask-restplus for example hasnt seen a commit in 6 months
10:44:05  <nielsm> that may also mean it's stable :)
10:44:27  <TrueBrain> might
10:44:30  <TrueBrain> given it is version 0.12
10:44:42  <TrueBrain> that makes it hard to estimate
10:45:23  <TrueBrain> https://github.com/noirbizarre/flask-restplus/issues/593
10:45:29  <TrueBrain> I am not the only one wondering :D
10:45:46  <TrueBrain> seems bus-factor of 1 was reached
10:46:03  <DorpsGek_II> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] nielsmh merged pull request #7187: Change: Add scrollbar to cargo legend in cargo payment rates window. https://git.io/fh99m
10:47:00  <nielsm> https://github.com/OpenTTD/OpenTTD/pull/7261  <- 1.9 candidate?
10:47:39  <TrueBrain> https://git.io/fhSMz <- 1.9 candidate? :D
10:50:10  <nielsm> ai/gs framerate is just expansion of an already new feature, to be more complete, I think it's obvious it needs to go in!
10:50:53  <TrueBrain> :D
10:51:17  <TrueBrain> we use to keep all the sources of every nightly we ever produced (only the sources)
10:51:21  <TrueBrain> is that really useful, I wonder
10:54:28  <LordAro> not hugely
10:54:34  <LordAro> a list of commit hashes should be plenty
10:54:56  <TrueBrain> even there, is it useful to keep of those older than .. 90 days?
10:55:00  <TrueBrain> I have them back to r1 :D
10:56:15  <LordAro> perhaps not, but i don't see the harm in it
10:56:23  <LordAro> text file can't be that big :p
10:56:54  <TrueBrain> keeping things for keeping, and nobody ever using it, only decreases maintainability :D
10:57:10  <TrueBrain> so I was more wondering why/when anyone would like to know
10:57:29  <TrueBrain> any crashdump etc will always contain the githash or svn revision
10:57:57  <andythenorth> was it an outdated approach to GPL compliance?
10:58:12  <TrueBrain> no; it was done because we could, and in case subversion went bye-bye
10:58:31  <andythenorth> ok so DVCS
10:58:33  <TrueBrain> (so we could recover from nightlies, as good and bad as that would go)
10:58:36  <andythenorth> job done, no need
10:58:53  <TrueBrain> yeah .. so I am somewhat tempted to only keep record of the last 90 nightlies
10:58:59  <TrueBrain> and just remove anything else
10:59:25  <TrueBrain> http://ftp.snt.utwente.nl/pub/games/openttd/binaries/nightlies/trunk/ <- to give inspiration why I talk about this :D
11:00:57  * andythenorth starts FIRS 4 properly now
11:01:06  <andythenorth> feature branches and everything
11:01:13  <TrueBrain> that is what they all say :P
11:05:52  <andythenorth> oof nmlc ERROR: "generated/firs.nml", line 7342: Syntax error, unexpected token "waiting_cargo_1"
11:05:53  <andythenorth> make: *** [generated/firs.grf] Error 1
11:05:54  <andythenorth> well
11:07:29  <LordAro> good start
11:07:30  <andythenorth> so the prod. cb format needs to change?
11:07:45  <andythenorth> I knew this would be like pulling teeth :P
11:07:54  <andythenorth> trying to test the 16 cargo industry stuff against FIRS is dumb
11:08:29  <andythenorth> but nobody else has provided a reference.grf for it :(
11:11:09  <andythenorth> not sure why this now contains unexpected token https://paste.openttdcoop.org/p081e9gnw/b3hhoq/raw
11:11:26  <andythenorth> using nmlc built from here https://github.com/PeterN/nml/commits/16-in-out
11:12:28  <planetmaker> what exactly is the unexpected token there, andythenorth ?
11:12:39  <andythenorth> "waiting_cargo_1"
11:13:04  <nielsm> the old produce syntax is supposed to still work
11:13:23  <andythenorth> trying to figure out how prod. cb detects version
11:13:26  <nielsm> but I'll admit to not testing that
11:16:12  <planetmaker> TrueBrain, I'm sure it will be of interest in some way. And if it's for history reasons :) Yes, we have the repo...
11:16:33  <andythenorth> https://github.com/PeterN/nml/commit/34ad7c6f51b5840e4f5e79ec783a456cec22ecab#diff-f263542df45e35dc44cc1731bbc48801R54
11:17:00  <andythenorth> not sure where version is specified in nml
11:17:21  <andythenorth> https://newgrf-specs.tt-wiki.net/wiki/NML:Produce
11:17:29  <andythenorth> I think it's inferred to be version 1, historically
11:18:16  <andythenorth> might be set here?
11:18:17  <andythenorth> https://github.com/PeterN/nml/commit/34ad7c6f51b5840e4f5e79ec783a456cec22ecab#diff-f263542df45e35dc44cc1731bbc48801L63
11:18:26  <planetmaker> andythenorth, there's nml/__version__.py
11:18:34  <planetmaker> which in turn is written by setup.py
11:18:48  <planetmaker> which in turn runs nml/detect_version.py or so
11:18:48  <nielsm> planetmaker not nml version, production callback version
11:18:55  <planetmaker> ups, sorry :)
11:23:02  <andythenorth> ok so a few things clicked :P
11:23:22  <andythenorth> 1. this shouldn't break old grfs
11:23:33  <andythenorth> so I should test it with FIRS based on 3 in & 2 out
11:24:02  <andythenorth> 2. I'm really unclear where the canonical PR for this is :P
11:24:27  <andythenorth> I'm using peter's rebase, but we can't push any more fixes to that :P
11:26:24  <DorpsGek_II> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] nielsmh requested changes for pull request #7080: Change: Cache stations and links for whole map for linkgraph GUI to eliminate delay when scrolling or zooming https://git.io/fhbvE
11:28:50  <DorpsGek_II> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] nielsmh closed pull request #7005: Fix #7004: Redraw linkgraph overlay correctly after zoom https://git.io/fhtUO
11:28:51  <DorpsGek_II> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] nielsmh commented on pull request #7005: Fix #7004: Redraw linkgraph overlay correctly after zoom https://git.io/fhbvg
11:29:45  <andythenorth> ok I made a PR at least https://github.com/OpenTTD/nml/pull/15
11:31:04  <andythenorth> the bot doesn't see nml repo?
11:31:10  <nielsm> yay PRs down to two pages
11:31:16  <andythenorth> come on DorpsGek_II, keep up :P
11:31:23  <TrueBrain> andythenorth: because nobody told him to
11:31:29  <TrueBrain> and why are issues disabled on the NML repo?
11:31:37  <andythenorth> DorpsGek_II watch the nml repo :P
11:31:53  <LordAro> TrueBrain: because no one wanted to migrate them from OTTDC
11:31:57  <andythenorth> TrueBrain: because Frosch was going to import from devzone
11:31:59  <nielsm> https://github.com/OpenTTD/OpenTTD/pull/7194  <-- anyone opposed to this?
11:32:02  <andythenorth> he had a test for it
11:32:17  <TrueBrain> andythenorth: ah
11:32:31  <andythenorth> nielsm: I would have liked to know what it does, like a screenshot or so
11:32:32  <andythenorth> but ok
11:32:48  <LordAro> TrueBrain: bit late to maintain the issue numbers now, so probably just migrate the open ones
11:32:53  <andythenorth> it's a change with no context, no explanation
11:32:56  <nielsm> I wonder if I can somehow force the issue it appears to solve
11:33:19  <andythenorth> it's poor habits
11:33:36  <TrueBrain> LordAro: I hope frosch is doing that? (as it is not on any of my todos)
11:33:48  <andythenorth> we shouldn't encourage this kind of dump-and-run PR, it puts all the quality checking onto the reviewer
11:33:59  <TrueBrain> andythenorth: https://github.com/OpenTTD/nml/pull/16
11:34:04  <LordAro> i do recall an image somewhere..
11:34:09  <LordAro> but yeah, should be in the issue
11:34:13  <andythenorth> TB :)
11:34:15  <TrueBrain> hmm .. NML is also not forcing review
11:34:27  <TrueBrain> and has no CI :)
11:34:31  <TrueBrain> someone has been slacking ;)
11:34:42  <andythenorth> no maintainer :(
11:34:52  <DorpsGek_II> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] nielsmh commented on pull request #7194: Fix: Remove desert around lakes upon generation. https://git.io/fhbvr
11:34:52  <andythenorth> does anything actually have a maintainer?
11:34:56  <andythenorth> or is that a broken concept?
11:36:14  <DorpsGek_II> [OpenTTD/nml] TrueBrain commented on pull request #15: Industries: support 16 cargos in / 16 cargos out https://git.io/fhbv6
11:36:16  <TrueBrain> there we go
11:36:31  <TrueBrain> but that repo does need some love in terms of configuration
11:36:31  <LordAro> :)
11:36:51  <TrueBrain> nobody talked to me about any of it, so I don't know if anyone is on top of that, or that it was assumed it "magically" would work :P
11:38:58  <TrueBrain> there are also weird branches in the nml repo :P
11:38:59  <andythenorth> it was MVP :P
11:39:11  <andythenorth> really nml is a bit fucked currently
11:39:21  <andythenorth> it's a pretty critical tool for content authors but....
11:39:33  <TrueBrain> I am more talking about the repo; not the content :)
11:39:35  <andythenorth> - bad repo / CI environment
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11:39:40  <andythenorth> - no maintainer
11:39:41  <LordAro> shall we get RC1 out of the door first, then worry about nml?
11:39:42  <andythenorth> - no tests
11:39:52  <andythenorth> - no reference grfs
11:39:55  <andythenorth> - spec is a PITA
11:40:03  <andythenorth> - and nmlc is slow as all hell to use
11:40:08  <andythenorth> LordAro: maybe :P
11:40:16  <andythenorth> that 16 cargo stuff is pretty untested tbh
11:40:20  <TrueBrain> LordAro: if you expect people that can help with RC1 are in the same group as NML :D
11:40:22  <andythenorth> and it's shipped
11:40:38  <LordAro> TrueBrain: well, it's you, basically :p
11:40:56  <LordAro> i forsee some sort of issue with creating a release from a branch
11:41:00  <TrueBrain> what am I suppose to do for either one? :)
11:41:27  <TrueBrain> if the branch is correct, I think it just works tbh :)
11:41:31  <TrueBrain> but we will find out :D
11:41:40  <LordAro> exactly :p
11:41:51  <LordAro> and CI setup is basically your area
11:42:19  <TrueBrain> but I am not touching NML currently, to be clear :)
11:42:45  <TrueBrain> well, I am, but the README.md annoys me :P
11:43:55  <LordAro> don't have to touch NML to setup CI for it :p
11:44:08  <planetmaker> issues... are disabled on nml for no good reason, I guess. But it might need migration of devzone issues first
11:44:29  <TrueBrain> LordAro: I assume someone else is on top of that :)
11:44:30  <DorpsGek_II> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] Nik-mmzd opened issue #7266: News font size is bugged if font size was changed for a multiple times https://git.io/fhbvM
11:45:06  <LordAro> TrueBrain: i think you overestimate how much other people understand about the CI
11:45:18  <andythenorth> planetmaker: it's precisely that, frosch wants to move all issues from devzone (or wants someone to :P )
11:45:25  <planetmaker> TrueBrain, so, no, no oversight on your part and no complaint. Migration of nml to github is (obviously) not quite finished. Issues are missing
11:45:28  <TrueBrain> LordAro: I at least assume people ask if that is the case :) Others did for their patchpacks :)
11:45:44  <TrueBrain> planetmaker: cool! As always, let me know if I can help
11:45:54  <planetmaker> and yes, I'd ask, if I wanted you to do something. I didn't consider having nml stuff announced here
11:46:08  <TrueBrain> planetmaker: as long as we are in sync, I am fine :)
11:46:11  <planetmaker> I'm fine with it being announced though (anyone having opinions about that?)
11:46:14  <TrueBrain> as you just noticed, LordAro did make some assumptions :P
11:46:34  <TrueBrain> planetmaker: the announcing is already done :D So no take-backs :P
11:46:39  <TrueBrain> *mwhahahaha*
11:46:44  <planetmaker> LordAro, CI for nml basically is setup. It just needs triggering
11:47:01  <planetmaker> the old CI for devzone still works. Currently just doesn't get a trigger from github
11:47:03  <andythenorth> we should teach it build tests
11:47:20  <TrueBrain> and this is why I ask before I meddle with it ;) Happy to see someone is on top of it :)
11:47:27  <planetmaker> it is modified to build from github though
11:48:18  <TrueBrain> planetmaker: one thing that needs fixing ASAP: "see 'license.txt'"
11:48:22  <TrueBrain> there is no license.txt in the repository
11:48:30  <nielsm> haxxing: https://0x0.st/z-zs.jpg
11:49:01  <TrueBrain> planetmaker: is that something you can fix?
11:49:12  <TrueBrain> (README.md points to the file, but it is not there)
11:49:35  <planetmaker> docs/license.txt ;)
11:49:43  <TrueBrain> ah
11:49:47  <TrueBrain> even GitHub did not pick up on that ;)
11:49:55  <TrueBrain> license files are best in the root directory
11:50:02  <planetmaker> yeah. Easy fix
11:50:03  <TrueBrain> mind if I move it?
11:50:10  <planetmaker> not at all. be my guest
11:50:42  <TrueBrain> it is seriously GPL2 or later? Is that allowed? :D
11:50:52  <planetmaker> why wouldn't it be allowed?
11:51:05  <TrueBrain> thought you need to explicitly dual license it :)
11:51:08  <TrueBrain> never looked into that
11:51:12  <TrueBrain> assumption on my part :)
11:51:49  <planetmaker> which basically is what openttd has, too ;)
11:52:00  <planetmaker> (or has it v2 and no v2+ ?)
11:52:02  <TrueBrain> OpenTTD is licensed under the GNU General Public License version 2.0. For
11:52:02  <TrueBrain> the complete license text, see the file 'COPYING'. This license applies
11:52:03  <TrueBrain> to all files in this distribution, except as noted below.
11:52:13  <TrueBrain> OpenTTD is not dual-licensed
11:54:40  <DorpsGek_II> [OpenTTD/nml] TrueBrain opened pull request #17: Move license file and update readme to be more markdowny https://git.io/fhbvx
11:54:49  <TrueBrain> my OCD hit too often looking at the README.md :P
11:55:23  <TrueBrain> '<filename>' was shown as '' :D
11:56:08  <TrueBrain> pretty sure I missed things, but meh :)
11:56:08  <planetmaker> it needs testing whether the bundle still ships the license :P
11:56:37  <TrueBrain> good point
11:57:15  <DorpsGek_II> [OpenTTD/nml] TrueBrain updated pull request #17: Move license file and update readme to be more markdowny https://git.io/fhbvx
11:58:02  <planetmaker> anyway... I'm lazy. I approve it. I build it. And will fix it, if it fails to ship it :P
11:58:13  <DorpsGek_II> [OpenTTD/nml] planetmaker approved pull request #17: Move license file and update readme to be more markdowny https://git.io/fhbfv
11:58:24  <TrueBrain> :D
11:58:44  <planetmaker> But... commit message doesn't fit style :)
11:58:45  <DorpsGek_II> [OpenTTD/nml] TrueBrain merged pull request #17: Move license file and update readme to be more markdowny https://git.io/fhbvx
11:58:52  <planetmaker> :|
11:59:01  <TrueBrain> .... NOOOOOO
11:59:23  <TrueBrain> what part didn't?
11:59:35  <planetmaker> everything. Fix: ... or Change: ...
11:59:41  <TrueBrain> they have that?
11:59:48  <planetmaker> it should follow the same as OpenTTD
11:59:54  <planetmaker> it's not enforced
12:00:31  <TrueBrain> I did follow it?
12:00:33  <TrueBrain> what are you on about? :D
12:00:46  <DorpsGek_II> [OpenTTD/nml] TrueBrain opened pull request #18: Fix 014febc: wrong link to LICENSE file https://git.io/fhbfJ
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12:00:58  <TrueBrain> planetmaker: https://github.com/OpenTTD/nml/commits/master
12:00:58  <planetmaker> I'm... again confused about PR title and commit messages
12:01:01  <TrueBrain> :D
12:01:03  <TrueBrain> sorry :P
12:01:11  <planetmaker> all fine :)
12:01:12  <TrueBrain> but I did make a boo-boo :)
12:01:37  <TrueBrain> now GitHub picked up on the license too, sweet
12:03:02  <DorpsGek_II> [OpenTTD/nml] planetmaker merged pull request #18: Fix 014febc: wrong link to LICENSE file https://git.io/fhbfJ
12:03:55  <planetmaker> hm... did s/o trigger NML build on devzone?
12:03:59  <planetmaker> andythenorth, ?
12:04:07  <TrueBrain> s/o?
12:04:10  <planetmaker> someone
12:04:13  <TrueBrain> ah :D
12:04:28  <TrueBrain> hmm, lunchtime I guess
12:04:40  <planetmaker> because... it just builds w/o me triggering it :D
12:04:58  <planetmaker> so some trigger seems to work
12:05:06  <andythenorth> I didn't trigger
12:05:12  <planetmaker> interesting
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12:05:24  <andythenorth> frosch might have already made Jenkins trigger?
12:05:24  *** Wolf01 has joined #openttd
12:05:47  <planetmaker> I just have to teach it to not show 'failed'. Because it didn't fail
12:06:06  <Wolf01> Hello, from the new internet line \o/
12:06:21  <planetmaker> hi Wolf01 with new internet :D
12:07:55  <DorpsGek_II> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] nielsmh commented on pull request #7194: Fix: Remove desert around lakes upon generation. https://git.io/fhbft
12:08:26  <nielsm> there, that should show the intention of the patch :)
12:10:02  <LordAro> nielsm: i seem to recall it being possible to reproduce in the scenario editor
12:10:08  <LordAro> without river hacks
12:10:45  <nielsm> LordAro, I think there was a previous bug already fixed where placing river tiles did not convert desert to tropical
12:11:14  <nielsm> but otherwise I don't know of any regular way to trigger the river generator outside automatic terrain generation
12:11:38  <andythenorth> https://github.com/OpenTTD/OpenTTD/issues/4754
12:12:48  <andythenorth> so this prod. cb rewrite is quite extensive :) https://github.com/PeterN/nml/commit/34ad7c6f51b5840e4f5e79ec783a456cec22ecab#diff-f263542df45e35dc44cc1731bbc48801L63
12:12:55  <andythenorth> I can't meaningfully review it
12:14:31  <andythenorth> (lack of skill on my part)
12:14:32  <andythenorth> :P
12:15:34  <DorpsGek_II> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] nielsmh approved pull request #7194: Fix: Remove desert around lakes upon generation. https://git.io/fhbfn
12:16:15  <DorpsGek_II> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] nielsmh merged pull request #7194: Fix: Remove desert around lakes upon generation. https://git.io/fhHqA
12:17:09  <nielsm> lol https://github.com/OpenTTD/OpenTTD/issues/7266
12:18:35  <LordAro> i cannot reproduce 7266
12:20:08  <LordAro> i did manage to make the "small news window" shifted up above the toolbar though
12:20:11  <nielsm> I can: https://0x0.st/z-zZ.jpg
12:21:36  <DorpsGek_II> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] nielsmh commented on issue #7266: News font size is bugged if font size was changed for a multiple times https://git.io/fhbf4
12:21:52  <LordAro> not for me, with the default font
12:22:12  <LordAro> https://i.imgur.com/8ykUAD4.png did get this though
12:22:25  <nielsm> :D
12:22:30  <LordAro> also the toolbar is unusable at higher font size levels
12:28:16  <DorpsGek_II> [OpenTTD/nml] planetmaker opened pull request #19: Fix: Build script failed on missing rpm https://git.io/fhbfu
12:28:25  <DorpsGek_II> [OpenTTD/nml] planetmaker merged pull request #19: Fix: Build script failed on missing rpm https://git.io/fhbfu
12:36:29  <DorpsGek_II> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] Nik-mmzd commented on issue #7266: News font size is bugged if font size was changed for a multiple times https://git.io/fhbfD
12:36:36  <DorpsGek_II> [OpenTTD/nml] planetmaker opened pull request #20: Fix/Change: Publish readme and license also separately on the bundles… https://git.io/fhbfy
12:36:42  <DorpsGek_II> [OpenTTD/nml] planetmaker merged pull request #20: Fix/Change: Publish readme and license also separately on the bundles… https://git.io/fhbfy
12:36:49  <planetmaker> SPAM
12:40:04  <DorpsGek_II> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] nielsmh commented on issue #7266: News font size is bugged if font size was changed for a multiple times https://git.io/fhbfQ
12:43:11  <DorpsGek_II> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] LordAro commented on issue #7266: News font size is bugged if font size was changed for a multiple times https://git.io/fhbfd
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12:49:48  <TrueBrain> I like spam
12:50:09  <TrueBrain> shouldnt in the issue template also be which OS the user is using?
12:53:48  <LordAro> probably
12:55:09  <andythenorth> oof
12:55:20  <andythenorth> I've been thinking for a while about making reference.grf
12:55:38  <andythenorth> 'making' = 'not me alone' :P
12:56:04  <TrueBrain> what is it referencing?
12:59:05  <andythenorth> 1. it contains cases for most of the common uses for each feature type
12:59:23  <andythenorth> 2. it acts as a regression test for nmlc changes
12:59:45  <andythenorth> 3. it provides reference cases for testing OpenTTD changes
12:59:46  <TrueBrain> nml repo has tons of files in regression folder already?
13:00:15  <planetmaker> yes, a few. But the regression coverage still is quite poor
13:00:18  <andythenorth> they're not maintained
13:00:25  <andythenorth> but
13:00:31  <andythenorth> that's fixable :P
13:00:49  <andythenorth> but none of them produce a grf that can be used to test an OpenTTD PR
13:00:55  <planetmaker> well... 'not maintained'... yes. Basically they're for "as long as the regression tests don't fail, they're valid and ok"
13:01:03  <planetmaker> but... new stuff needs new tests :)
13:01:27  <andythenorth> the biggest PITA seems to be extending newgrf spec, or changing things which affect existing newgrf spec
13:01:36  <andythenorth> $someone has to make a grf
13:01:39  <planetmaker> some were made small on purpose, not producing a complete grf, not meant for OpenTTD testing
13:01:43  <andythenorth> yes
13:02:05  <andythenorth> currently for OpenTTD PRs, $someone has to make a test grf
13:02:08  <planetmaker> (just explaining their history, not contradicting you :) )
13:02:17  <andythenorth> which is usually a hack of something like FIRS or USSR set
13:02:20  <planetmaker> And I know you know :P
13:02:41  <andythenorth> to make that, $someone usually has to have a patch of nml
13:02:49  <andythenorth> against a spec which is a moving target
13:03:05  <andythenorth> or use grfcodec, which 'just works' but causes the nml part to be neglected
13:03:22  <andythenorth> it's totally unappealing, and makes newgrf spec stuff like pulling teeth
13:03:44  <andythenorth> case: https://github.com/OpenTTD/OpenTTD/pull/6867
13:03:55  <planetmaker> next step here would probably also to build NML PRs
13:03:58  <planetmaker> like OpenTTD PRs
13:04:39  <andythenorth> for 6867, I have a fork of nml, which is using a remote of peter1138's rebase
13:04:50  <TrueBrain> Tetris 99 is WEIRD :P
13:05:05  <andythenorth> I then build a branch of FIRS, which is slightly broken because the makefile isn't ported for git yet
13:05:23  <andythenorth> I'm using docs from the OpenTTD PR, which may or may not be accurate for the final spec
13:05:34  <planetmaker> rebase of NRT?
13:05:49  <planetmaker> ah, no, cargoes
13:05:56  <andythenorth> rebase of https://github.com/nielsmh/nml/commits/indcargonum
13:06:30  <andythenorth> we didn't discover until today that those patches break all existing grfs using prod cb
13:06:39  <andythenorth> because there's no CI and no reference grf
13:06:59  <andythenorth> this is all just standard crap, I know
13:07:02  <planetmaker> autch
13:07:04  <andythenorth> I'm just trying to figure out the fix
13:07:28  <planetmaker> *ouch (probably is the English translation :D)
13:07:33  <andythenorth> figures :)
13:07:46  <andythenorth> then at the end of all this, me or $someone has to go and edit docs in a wiki
13:08:02  <planetmaker> so... nml wiki inside git repo?
13:08:03  <andythenorth> we can't prep the docs as the spec, alongside the PR
13:08:06  <andythenorth> which is dumb
13:08:09  <planetmaker> and newgrf wiki also inside git repo?
13:08:14  <andythenorth> something like thaat
13:08:31  <planetmaker> but... newgrf wiki is edited by way more people than know how to use git
13:08:41  <andythenorth> there are _lots_ of successful nml authors in forums, I am considering trying to recruit them to make reference cases
13:08:52  <andythenorth> but I don't know if my plan has any support or is coherent even
13:09:17  <andythenorth> newgrf is the most important content API imho, and developing for it is a bag of spanners
13:09:35  <planetmaker> the API has serious history issues
13:09:47  <planetmaker> and is... baroque at best
13:10:01  <planetmaker> which is the main cause for all the bag of spanners
13:10:21  <TrueBrain> so integrate Squirrel with NewGRF you say? :P
13:10:21  <planetmaker> factorio is less history - obcessed ;)
13:11:22  <planetmaker> sounds insane. Might be less than it sounds. But that's a 2.0 project, if any at all
13:11:38  <planetmaker> in essence newgrfs could be part of a game script
13:11:52  <planetmaker> it's the same vector: global changes
13:12:25  <andythenorth> it would be a substantial decision to switch API :)
13:12:39  <andythenorth> and it would still have infrastructure issues, like docs, and test cases
13:12:45  <andythenorth> even in a new shiny formaat
13:13:04  <TrueBrain> if done properly, old format should "just work"
13:13:19  <TrueBrain> but I never understood NewGRF, so easy for me to say :D
13:13:44  <andythenorth> newgrf is simples
13:14:03  <andythenorth> just put digits 0-F in order until you get a lot of trains
13:14:25  <planetmaker> :D
13:14:28  <TrueBrain> I am guessing that the main difference between GS API and NewGRF is that the latter is called, and the first does the calling
13:14:31  <TrueBrain> but .. guessing :D
13:15:13  * andythenorth bisects to find where nml is broken
13:15:58  <peter1138> Typical, I go out on a bike ride and I come back to a lot of chat.
13:16:13  <andythenorth> yeah this commit breaks existing grfs https://github.com/PeterN/nml/commit/ec4a9f4e6e1785028c829c05b84323220eab6041
13:17:03  <andythenorth> nielsm: my naive assumption is that it's simply using the wrong cb version, so parsing wrong
13:17:11  <andythenorth> but I don't know how to prove that, or try to fix it
13:17:29  <nielsm> parsing comes before picking cb version
13:17:45  <nielsm> it's probably the syntax declaration that's wrong
13:18:02  <planetmaker> traditionally NML does not support multiple ways to do one thing. It just supportes the newest way to do stuff
13:18:39  <nielsm> planetmaker: mainly the thing here is to keep supporting the old syntax I suppose
13:18:58  <nielsm> so you don't have to rewrite large chunks to use the new version of nmlc
13:20:04  <peter1138> nielsm, #7080 introduces a shed load of new code for something very minor.
13:20:05  <planetmaker> I'd keep the old branch with the old version. And new versions require adoption of syntax... bad luck.
13:20:40  <DorpsGek_II> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] PeterN commented on pull request #7080: Change: Cache stations and links for whole map for linkgraph GUI to eliminate delay when scrolling or zooming https://git.io/fhbJG
13:20:46  <planetmaker> providing bug-fix versions to support old syntax can be done for a time. We did so with nml 0.2 vs. nml 0.3+
13:21:25  <planetmaker> https://newgrf-specs.tt-wiki.net/wiki/NML:Changes_0.3#Callbacks <-- required also rewrite
13:21:37  <peter1138> non-rect-catchment for 1.9?
13:21:59  * peter1138 ponders making a patch pack out of un-merged PRs :p
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13:22:11  <drac_boy> weekend hi to anyone here ;)
13:22:12  <nielsm> peter1138 I'd be fine with it
13:22:18  <planetmaker> openttd-pr-pack ;)
13:24:19  <TrueBrain> the more you keep adding to 1.9, the more risk you take; balance that :)
13:24:53  <TrueBrain> (the issue of the ever-moving release moment, as new stuff being added that really needs some more testing :D)
13:25:40  <drac_boy> truebrain maybe separate it between 1.9 and 1.9-bleeding? just suggesting randomly ;)
13:26:28  <TrueBrain> isn't bleeding called 'master'? :)
13:28:31  <DorpsGek_II> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] PeterN approved pull request #7178: Add AI and GS to framerate window https://git.io/fhbJ8
13:29:11  <DorpsGek_II> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] nielsmh merged pull request #7178: Add AI and GS to framerate window https://git.io/fhSMz
13:29:27  <peter1138> Shower time!
13:30:07  <drac_boy> truebrain so beside thinking as usual what else're you doing atm?
13:30:33  <TrueBrain> "thinking as usual" .. not sure that is an insult or not :D
13:30:51  <TrueBrain> and currently I am mostly enjoying the sun; what is the real question here? :)
13:31:17  <Eddi|zuHause> the correct reply should have been "same thing we're doing every night, pinky"
13:31:38  <TrueBrain> Eddi|zuHause: meh; made that joke so many times :P
13:31:41  <TrueBrain> but you are right :)
13:31:50  <andythenorth> stop adding to 1.9, start adding to 1.10 :P
13:31:59  <TrueBrain> branch 1.9 already, yes :P
13:32:25  <Eddi|zuHause> branch 1.9, then rename to 2.10 :p
13:32:36  <TrueBrain> okay, I made the mistake of opening the NewGRF spec .. I totally forgot it was build to work with TTDPatch :D
13:36:40  <drac_boy> truebrain well I mean a brain if its not thinking then what else is it doing? :)
13:36:57  <TrueBrain> being true, of course
13:38:00  * drac_boy is just trying to find photos of 3-axle wagons as to answer my question but otherwise just simply has a list of loco to sift editing through
13:38:07  <drac_boy> thats about it for my morning atm
13:39:04  <TrueBrain> I love how the documentation in our newgrf code is out of sync with the real code following :D
13:40:02  <TrueBrain> (the pitfall of documentation in code and somewhere else .. something will get out of sync :P)
13:41:22  <TrueBrain> is TTDp dead btw? (honest question)
13:41:50  <andythenorth> inconclusive
13:41:56  <drac_boy> to me its 'old stable' truebrain
13:42:16  <TrueBrain> andythenorth: how come?
13:42:30  <drac_boy> theres still one major feature I would had liked but meh programming isn't really my thing so I'm just going leave it as a distant wish for now
13:42:50  <TrueBrain> last release: 2007
13:43:06  <TrueBrain> meh; the moment you remember you are getting old ..
13:43:34  <drac_boy> 2007? which one are you looking at as its dated well past 2007 here
13:43:36  <drac_boy> just asking
13:43:47  <TrueBrain> https://www.ttdpatch.net/
13:44:52  <drac_boy> truebrain its 2013 .. I guess someone broke the links perhaps
13:45:09  <andythenorth> TrueBrain: define dead?
13:45:12  <TrueBrain> you are not giving any sources either, so .. I am still not the wiser :)
13:45:26  <TrueBrain> andythenorth: fair question; active development of any sorts in the last 5 years
13:45:32  <drac_boy> truebrain well I dunno who broke the links .. you'll have to ask them
13:45:43  <TrueBrain> "them"
13:45:46  <TrueBrain> yeah .. this is not helping :)
13:46:09  <LordAro> wasn't ottd hosting the svn repo last i checked?
13:46:20  <LordAro> that had had *some* updates in the last... 5 years?
13:46:21  <LordAro> maybe?
13:46:24  <andythenorth> https://www.tt-forums.net/viewtopic.php?p=1203534#p1203534
13:46:39  <andythenorth> afaik there are dedicated players
13:46:44  <andythenorth> I have no recent evidence though
13:46:54  <andythenorth> generally it's thought to be superior to ottd
13:47:14  <TrueBrain> LordAro: we once build the binaries for TTDp, but that was long long ago
13:47:25  <andythenorth> https://www.tt-forums.net/viewtopic.php?f=19&t=76381
13:47:26  <TrueBrain> cannot remember we ever hosted code :P
13:47:30  <andythenorth> https://github.com/ttdpatch
13:47:35  <LordAro> perhaps that's what i'm thinking of
13:47:35  <drac_boy> andy but if you were to include the jgr patch into the stable release it would be nearly 100% equal tho (minus dos networking support)
13:47:51  <drac_boy> otherwise ottd as it is now does indeed have several noticable features still missing
13:48:02  <andythenorth> like I said, ttdp is considered superior
13:48:08  <TrueBrain> tnx andythenorth, that is a useful link :)
13:48:11  <andythenorth> and jgr is considered superior to ottd
13:48:29  <andythenorth> it's interesting how single-person projects can deliver so much more than a group collaborative effort
13:48:40  <TrueBrain> how do you define "superior" in this scenario?
13:48:44  <LordAro> considered superior by whom?
13:48:48  <andythenorth> do you read forums?
13:48:55  <andythenorth> or even what drac_boy said above ^^ ?
13:49:08  <andythenorth> JGRPP won some time ago
13:49:22  <TrueBrain> player-base, feature-set, ... ?
13:49:38  <TrueBrain> winning things without context is like not wining at all :D
13:49:58  <drac_boy> btw truebrain I rechecked my patch folder and its dated from october 07, 2013 .. author still is by ttdpatch.net in the source comment so .. again .. who broke the wiki links anyway?
13:49:58  <TrueBrain> (I am honestly curious; not judging)
13:49:59  <nielsm> drac_boy, will a danish 1916 passenger car do? https://www.jernbanen.dk/dsb_pvognfotos.php?Aar=1893&litra=CD&typenr=3
13:50:02  <andythenorth> it's the preferred choice of important soical social influencers on forums
13:50:07  <andythenorth> social *
13:50:18  <TrueBrain> ah :)
13:50:20  <peter1138> Yes, everyone uses JGR.
13:50:26  <TrueBrain> "everyone" :D
13:50:27  <andythenorth> 'uses'
13:50:31  <andythenorth> it's unusable, but eh
13:50:33  <peter1138> Development is faster, he doesn't have to care about breaking master.
13:50:37  <TrueBrain> "the latest version is not working" :P
13:50:48  <andythenorth> the point is though that it won
13:50:53  <peter1138> So there's no PRs, there's no real releases, just builds.
13:50:53  <TrueBrain> won what? :P
13:50:56  <andythenorth> I remember when ottd won
13:50:59  <andythenorth> and ttdp was dead
13:51:04  <drac_boy> nielsm nice .. btw a little more context just so you know tho, yesterday I had asked if the only 3-axle freight wagons were uk milk cars or were there any other non-passenger examples anywhere too?
13:51:09  <peter1138> The thing is, people either play our official release, or they play JGR
13:51:15  <andythenorth> drac_boy: see rule 1
13:51:16  <LordAro> imo we should work to "fix" JGRPP being "superior"
13:51:27  <peter1138> They don't play our nightlies because if they have to go to the bother to downloading something else, they just get JGR's instead.
13:51:39  <nielsm> drac_boy, I haven't been able to find any 3 axle freight cars from a quick browse
13:51:39  <peter1138> LordAro, yeah but we can't do that until 1.9 is out.
13:51:58  <TrueBrain> LordAro: it is not always important to be "superior". You want to be healthy
13:52:01  <andythenorth> LordAro: I dunno
13:52:07  <LordAro> TrueBrain: hence the liberal use of ""
13:52:09  <TrueBrain> it is okay if patchpacks superseed you in features, functionality, etc
13:52:12  <andythenorth> on the one hand, no
13:52:22  <TrueBrain> you just want to cherrypick the good things :D
13:52:22  <andythenorth> on the other, eventually the new competitor always wins
13:52:24  <drac_boy> nielsm yeah thats what I was starting to suspect this morning .. still looking through more photos before I decide for real :)
13:52:38  <andythenorth> like when git beat hg
13:52:44  <drac_boy> nielsm nice site btw .. going use it for misc photo references for other things tho
13:52:45  <andythenorth> or C beat lisp
13:52:55  <andythenorth> or like when Drupal killed Python
13:52:58  <andythenorth> oh...wait :P
13:52:59  <TrueBrain> "adjust or die" :P
13:53:06  <andythenorth> or Windows killed Mac
13:53:08  <TrueBrain> and Wildstar was the WoW killer
13:53:14  <andythenorth> or Windows NT killed Unix
13:53:24  <andythenorth> yeah, the analogy fails to scale
13:53:29  <TrueBrain> :D
13:53:33  * andythenorth was just trolling
13:53:44  <andythenorth> JGRPP is fine, it has bus factor 1, forum players love it, and it fits our goals
13:53:47  <TrueBrain> personally, I like it that JGRPP is popular; it is good to know people still want more from OpenTTD :)
13:54:33  <TrueBrain> but ... I play most games with mods, given the chance :D
13:54:34  <andythenorth> I wanted to edit this sometime https://wiki.openttd.org/FAQ_development#What_are_the_goals_of_the_offical_branch.3F
13:54:41  <TrueBrain> Minecraft .. Factorio .. I never play them vanilla :P
13:54:42  <drac_boy> truebrain yeah .. I still haven't tried it but I guess the reason I like the jgr patch (and keep checking that particular forum thread daily) is that it would let me open my gamesaves without a lot of things breaking
13:54:43  <andythenorth> to include providing a stable platform for PP
13:54:52  <drac_boy> anyway to our own nitpicks tho :)
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13:55:14  <andythenorth> drac_boy: are you sure you have that the right way round?
13:55:17  <TrueBrain> andythenorth: that is a good idea
13:55:27  <drac_boy> andy .. I pretty much do
13:55:29  <andythenorth> a fast-moving PP with regular failures?
13:55:31  <TrueBrain> it is how I rewrote this whole CI/CD stuff too .. to make patchpacks a lot easier
13:55:43  <andythenorth> your savegames break more often in regular OpenTTD?
13:55:47  <andythenorth> what breaks in them?
13:56:09  <drac_boy> andy .. why does ottd refuse to understand the metalcargo-only signal at my busy rail station? etca
13:56:10  <andythenorth> given that one of the boat anchors on OpenTTD is the savegame promise
13:56:17  <drac_boy> :)
13:56:30  <andythenorth> yes, but what breaks in your savegames?
13:56:46  <andythenorth> OpenTTD spends disproportionate effort on maintaining functioning savegames
13:56:58  <drac_boy> signal routing .. train spec .. pretty much a lot of things that ottd just doesn't even have for some reason
13:57:05  <TrueBrain> you cannot load a JGR savegame into it andythenorth :P
13:57:12  <andythenorth> I don't understand
13:57:17  <andythenorth> maybe I should have coffee
13:57:25  <TrueBrain> get me some too plz
13:57:37  <LordAro> drac_boy: that's not "breaking savegames" that's "game doesn't load savegames from a different game"
13:57:49  <andythenorth> oh that's what he said
13:57:50  <andythenorth> I re-read
13:58:03  <andythenorth> OpenTTD can't open saves from patchpacks
13:58:05  <drac_boy> lordaro its the same game silly .. jgr could had loaded it without breaking things
13:58:06  <LordAro> or perhaps "i would like to continue using my existing JGRPP savegames"
13:58:27  <andythenorth> yes he wants to load unsupported features into OpenTTD afaict
13:58:31  <andythenorth> and have them work
13:58:41  <andythenorth> make a ticket for that?
13:58:47  <TrueBrain> right, CMake .. what did I try to do there .. ah ... right .. I created a parser for the sources.list ... I can be such a silly
13:58:53  <LordAro> from the perspective of savegames, they might as well be completely separate games
13:58:54  <drac_boy> andy the only ticket is to roll jgr into a stable version :)
13:59:30  <LordAro> even if every feature in JGRPP was merged into the mainline, the games would still not be compatible
13:59:38  <andythenorth> nor would it be stable
13:59:56  <drac_boy> nielsm on a side note I'm still trying to figure out how to nicely slot the 3-axle coaches inbetween the 2-axle and 2-truck ones .. I think it probably has a hybrid capacity/speed inbetween both most likely
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14:00:23  <andythenorth> drac_boy: re: 3 axles, this is rule 1 https://www.rmweb.co.uk/community/index.php?/blogs/entry/15585-rule-1-and-other-guidelines/
14:00:30  <drac_boy> lordaro so why is it that if I remove the station junctions and other non-jgr items .. the map loads without issue?
14:01:29  <nielsm> drac_boy, I think 3 axle is cheaper to build than bogey type cars, while having larger load capacity than 2 axle cars, but also limiting comfort and ability to take sharp curves
14:01:32  <nielsm> perhaps
14:01:51  <peter1138> JGRPP has a modified saveload system that can handle way more than what we can do.
14:02:09  <Eddi|zuHause> <andythenorth> it's interesting how single-person projects can deliver so much more than a group collaborative effort <-- that's a slippery slope and culminates in people wanting a "strong leader" instead of this stupid "democracy" that is obviously not working.
14:02:33  <peter1138> Unfortunately that same saveload system makes it hard to cherry pick bits, unless we also took that system.
14:02:40  <andythenorth> Eddi|zuHause: welcome to my day job :P
14:02:51  <drac_boy> nielsm yeah seem we have same thoughts
14:03:24  <Eddi|zuHause> andythenorth: do i at least get paid on your day job? :p
14:03:36  <TrueBrain> the moment you see your own cmake code, and realise that if you didnt do cmake for 3 months, you forgot most of it
14:04:28  <Eddi|zuHause> TrueBrain: i occasionally come about bits of code i wrote and think "wait, i knew how to do this once?"
14:04:40  <TrueBrain> yeah ... but in 3 months time?
14:04:56  <Eddi|zuHause> 3 months is a bit short for that, maybe :p
14:04:58  <drac_boy> nielsm on a similar topic I've been thinking to add extra-long 2-axle good vans .. with certain cargo limit .. they're good at being able to go up to a quite fast speed even almost compatable to trucked vans too
14:05:01  <TrueBrain> (okay, in all fairness, the last 3 months I have been doing a completely different job that filled by brain, but still)
14:05:03  <LordAro> TrueBrain: https://github.com/LordAro/OpenTTD/commits/cmake few more bits here
14:05:09  <drac_boy> even if not many railways did actually use them (danish and german for two)
14:05:15  <peter1138> TrueBrain, that's like YAPF
14:05:31  <TrueBrain> LordAro: cool, let me use that :D
14:06:06  <nielsm> bbl, going for a walk
14:06:10  <TrueBrain> LordAro: my idea was to remove endian testing, I believe, as cmake has a variable for that :D
14:06:11  <drac_boy> ok have a good one
14:06:13  <TrueBrain> nielsm: enjoy
14:06:36  <LordAro> TrueBrain: i believe i already did that
14:06:41  <TrueBrain> owh, that is TestBigEndian
14:06:42  <TrueBrain> lol
14:06:46  <TrueBrain> sorry :D Thought it was a ready variable
14:06:59  <LordAro> :)
14:07:04  <andythenorth> drac_boy: how much grf have you coded, and how much is a paper plan? :)
14:07:27  <LordAro> Eddi|zuHause: is there a good way to transport salvage that doesn't have attach points?
14:07:27  <drac_boy> optional question - does anyone here ever care for using non-revenue wagons in their trains? water gin, tools van, non-baggage brake van, etca
14:07:34  <andythenorth> cabeese!
14:07:40  <drac_boy> andy heh well lets see...
14:07:47  <Eddi|zuHause> LordAro: been wondering about that as well :p
14:07:49  <andythenorth> always have cabeese
14:08:12  <andythenorth> drac_boy: most grfs don't provide them, so asking people if they like them...is a non-question ;)
14:08:16  <Eddi|zuHause> LordAro: but have been brushing that concern aside as i have no means to process it anyway yet
14:08:21  <andythenorth> rule 1 applies again
14:08:51  <TrueBrain> LordAro: yet-another-findversion-sh? :D
14:09:06  <drac_boy> coded - editted a few grfs for myself .. coded one small grf just all for myself before (learned how to do grfid/etc kind of thing for myself) but long deleted that .. and as for the paper plan umm well I guess I'll have to get back to you in early march when I've cleanred up a lot of details tho ;)
14:09:21  <LordAro> TrueBrain: :)
14:09:28  <TrueBrain> findversion.sh is used by external tooling too
14:09:33  <TrueBrain> not sure that removing it is the best thing atm
14:09:44  <LordAro> perhaps
14:09:51  <peter1138> drac_boy, when I used to play with newgrfs, yeah...
14:09:52  <LordAro> my changes predate the git related changes anyway
14:09:57  <peter1138> Maybe I should do that again.
14:10:11  <peter1138> But I miss the glory days of UKRS 2, when running sounds were a thing.
14:10:15  <peter1138> I really love running sounds.
14:10:16  <TrueBrain> yeah .. going to remove that commit for now; that is giving a conflict :D
14:10:53  <Eddi|zuHause> TF has running sounds :)
14:11:22  <TrueBrain> I seem to have tested this cmake stuff with MSVC .. no clue how ..
14:11:27  <drac_boy> ukrs2 mm .. I've played with that a little bit (ukrs1 more) .. not really my sort of trains but I'm not going to complain about seeing it on other players' maps tho :)
14:11:37  <andythenorth> peter1138: Horse sounds? o_O
14:11:44  <drac_boy> strangely the EM1 was more than often my favorite loco
14:11:48  <peter1138> That too.
14:11:53  <andythenorth> so err....what sounds?
14:12:01  * andythenorth considers it
14:12:12  <Eddi|zuHause> # what does the horse say?
14:12:13  <andythenorth> oof no, it will make compile times even worse
14:12:26  <andythenorth> Horse is barely possible to develop on already
14:12:35  <andythenorth> I might have to remove features soon
14:12:48  <Eddi|zuHause> you need partial compiles
14:12:54  <andythenorth> there are a lot of varaction2s doing quite silly features
14:13:01  <andythenorth> I should delete them
14:13:05  <andythenorth> also the cargo sprites on wagons
14:13:17  <andythenorth> nmlc is basically unworkable
14:13:22  <Eddi|zuHause> replacing one silly feature by another doesn't sound like the right thing to do
14:13:39  <andythenorth> so you prefer cargo sprites to running sounds? o_O
14:13:43  <drac_boy> have fun getting Iron Horse into the next progress andy ;)
14:14:13  <TrueBrain> LordAro:  Unknown CMake command "add_compile_definitions".
14:14:16  <TrueBrain> any idea?
14:14:38  <Eddi|zuHause> andythenorth: if that is honestly your question, i think yes, i'd prioritize proper cargo sprites over running sounds :p
14:14:46  <TrueBrain> CMake 3.12+
14:15:19  <TrueBrain> Debian Stretch is 3.7
14:17:10  <drac_boy> huh that jernbanen site is quite big .. I'm going to spend a long time browsing through it ... fun
14:19:23  <LordAro> TrueBrain: that's a shame
14:19:32  <TrueBrain> LordAro: yup
14:19:33  <LordAro> is what i get for developing on arch though :p
14:19:48  <LordAro> i think set(CFLAGS ...) is approximately equivalent?
14:19:53  <TrueBrain> okay, this is funny .. I have a space in my path
14:19:58  <andythenorth> let's try deleting cargo support
14:20:01  <TrueBrain> now it changes some files to a\ b, instead of a\ b
14:20:11  <DorpsGek_II> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] PeterN commented on issue #7266: News font size is bugged if font size was changed for a multiple times https://git.io/fhbJb
14:20:11  <TrueBrain> LordAro: add_definition(-D..)
14:21:34  <drac_boy> huh https://www.jernbanen.dk/damp.php?s=1&litra=P&typenr=1 that almost looks like the american Forney's .. that is 2 trucks but only one is powered
14:21:59  <andythenorth> yeah cargo support needs to die in Horse
14:22:23  <peter1138> Don't be silly.
14:24:22  <TrueBrain> NO_NETWORK is broken again :(
14:24:32  <TrueBrain> toolbar_gui.cpp, line 165
14:24:36  <TrueBrain> ‘NetworkCompanyIsPassworded’
14:24:58  <andythenorth> with cargos 1m3.515s, without cargos 0m29.445s
14:25:02  <andythenorth> it's pretty conclusive
14:25:11  <DorpsGek_II> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] gregcarlin commented on pull request #7003: Feature #6918: Add option to adjust font size separately from GUI size. https://git.io/fhbJN
14:26:06  <andythenorth> or I switch back to nfo
14:26:13  <andythenorth> grfcodec takes 0m2.758s
14:26:22  <andythenorth> that's pretty conclusively damning of nmlc
14:26:53  <andythenorth> nmlc would be about twice as slow as this, except frosch put a cache in, and I do some stupid MP stuff in the compile
14:27:08  <drac_boy> I know the game engine doesn't even factor this but any of you know if trailer-style talgo wagons were ever made to "only run fast in one direction" or thats just a silly question? (I don't mean the one where the axle sits inbetween each cars but rather the one where its one axle per car "hitched non-axleend into next car"
14:28:09  <andythenorth> what's m4 like?
14:28:14  <andythenorth> I could switch to m4nfo
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14:29:58  <andythenorth> I don't really want to depend on support from an author who does all but call me out by name in his docs
14:30:14  <andythenorth> "In addition, m4nfo natively includes a powerful macro processor suitable for private customizing or templating applications (indeed, m4nfo is written in M4, a very efficient macro processor itself), so there's no need for any external tools, like CPP for macro usage or artificially crafted extra Python layers, resulting in bloated installations."
14:30:36  <andythenorth> not sure I want to join that club
14:30:47  <andythenorth> but nmlc sucks
14:30:47  <drac_boy> oh I found an example for my axle question anyway https://www.jernbanen.dk/Tegninger/Mini/DSB_Stog/DSB_SA.gif  :)
14:31:30  <peter1138> andythenorth, why does build time matter?
14:33:16  <andythenorth> because I build constantly
14:33:33  <andythenorth> I will sometimes build 30 times in an hour
14:33:41  <peter1138> Hmm.
14:33:46  <andythenorth> I can't build more than that because there are only 60mins in 1 hour :P
14:33:46  <peter1138> And that's why you never get anything done...
14:33:59  <peter1138> Why do you rebuild so often?
14:34:02  <drac_boy> :)
14:35:04  <andythenorth> it's the only way to see changes
14:35:15  <andythenorth> there's no equivalent of browser developer tools
14:35:20  <TrueBrain> LordAro: I get why you ported it to CMake, the findversion.sh
14:37:22  <LordAro> TrueBrain: i'm glad someone does :p
14:37:37  <TrueBrain> it makes it Linux + Windows compatible :P
14:37:44  <TrueBrain> calling findversion.sh is Linux only
14:37:51  <TrueBrain> so ... Windows is a lot harder this way
14:38:06  * drac_boy deletes 12 wagon lines and just stares at table
14:39:56  <DorpsGek_II> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] PeterN opened pull request #7267: Fix #7003: Freetype fonts were scaled by both GUI and Font zoom levels. https://git.io/fhbUU
14:40:53  <drac_boy> hmm was going try code a test grf tomorrow but even then still - any of you know if you only can refit pass/mail or could you for example refit to pass/grain or any non-express cargos to latter slot in a dual-cargo vehicle?
14:41:37  <supermop_Home_> it's perplexingly annoying to make a plywood material in vray
14:41:55  <peter1138> drac_boy, pass/mail only. Dual-cargo is _only_ aircraft.
14:42:18  <supermop_Home_> but so close to having an easy way possible
14:42:26  <peter1138> (It's the plane's shadow that holds the mail...)
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14:43:37  <Samu> hi
14:43:46  <peter1138> Damn, this font is weird-ass
14:44:12  <peter1138> lower-case a is taller than other characters :/
14:47:02  <peter1138> So when it 1.9 going to be branched?
14:47:17  <LordAro> today?
14:47:22  <peter1138> Great.
14:47:25  <TrueBrain> LordAro: guess 'rev.cpp' should be created in the build folder with cmake, not?
14:47:33  <TrueBrain> (instead of in src/rev.cpp)
14:47:43  <LordAro> TrueBrain: probably, yeah
14:48:17  <TrueBrain> it even links :o
14:48:18  <TrueBrain> holy crap
14:48:25  <TrueBrain> and runs :o
14:48:28  <TrueBrain> now for Windows ..
14:48:32  <drac_boy> hmm ok guess I'll try one of the other thought I had and make an 'empty' articulated train .. and hopefully that'll get me the refit menu I was looking for
14:48:46  * drac_boy goes to look at something else for now
14:49:03  <LordAro> TrueBrain: that was the point i got to, iirc
14:49:07  <peter1138> drac_boy, articulated rail vehicles are two parts, either part can take any type of cargo you like.
14:49:11  <LordAro> various optional dependencies missing, of course
14:49:17  <TrueBrain> LordAro: yeah, I only had to 'fix' findversion.sh
14:49:22  <TrueBrain> and some specific issues with my setup
14:49:26  <peter1138> drac_boy, but dual-cargo, with the special weird refit case, is only aircraft.
14:50:18  <drac_boy> yeah thats what I had somewhat suspected but couldn't be 100% certain .. till now
14:50:22  <TrueBrain> LordAro: ah, includes fail if it is not in src/rev.cpp :)
14:50:26  <drac_boy> ty still
14:51:46  <drac_boy> anyway have fun with ottd fonts etc .. I'm off for a while here
14:51:52  <LordAro> TrueBrain: hmm. ideally a cmake build should not modify the source folders
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14:52:11  <TrueBrain> LordAro: I agree
14:52:54  <TrueBrain> LordAro: why did you set the generated property on rev.cpp? (curious what that does)
14:54:29  <LordAro> because it's generated :p
14:54:38  <LordAro> i'm not entirely clear what it does either
14:54:49  <TrueBrain> meh; was hoping you knew :)
14:55:50  <TrueBrain> https://cmake.org/cmake/help/v3.11/prop_sf/GENERATED.html
14:58:51  <peter1138> Hmm, looking at #7051. Seeing a depot sign is a bit weird :-)
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15:03:17  <TrueBrain> I have Visual Studio Community 2017 ... and it is telling me my trial is over
15:03:21  <TrueBrain> wasn't it free? :s
15:03:51  <TrueBrain> you have to sign in .. lol
15:03:57  <peter1138> Sign in and it gets renewed.
15:04:16  <nielsm> community is weird :P
15:04:24  <TrueBrain> There is a problem with your Microsoft account. To fix this, sign in to account.live.com from a browser.
15:04:27  <TrueBrain> this is going just great :D
15:05:06  <TrueBrain> Your account has been temporarily suspended
15:05:08  <TrueBrain> euhh
15:05:35  <nielsm> what have you done!
15:06:00  <TrueBrain> the account I use for Azure Pipelines
15:06:05  <TrueBrain> I tried to login with that ..
15:06:17  <TrueBrain> now it wants my phone number
15:06:40  <peter1138> Urgh, I can't stop eating :/
15:06:54  <TrueBrain> what a stupid shit is this ...
15:06:56  <TrueBrain> it is just harvesting data
15:06:59  <TrueBrain> nothing else
15:07:09  <peter1138> Welcome to the modern age :(
15:07:58  <TrueBrain> yeah ... it just needed ANY phone number
15:08:03  <TrueBrain> wasn't even linked to the account or anything
15:08:06  <TrueBrain> just any would work
15:08:08  <TrueBrain> ......
15:08:34  <TrueBrain> this is so weird
15:08:54  <TrueBrain> had to double check a few times I was really visiting Microsoft, as that feels like a scam ..
15:09:00  <TrueBrain> especially as you are bounced over several domains
15:10:50  <peter1138> Hmm, do AI scripts check how many ops they have remaining? Or would that just waste ops?
15:16:20  *** supermop_Home_ has quit IRC
15:20:00  <TrueBrain> LordAro: fun fact, your NOT OPTION_WIN32 didn't work :P
15:20:24  <TrueBrain> can be another CMake 3.12+ thingy :D
15:25:39  <peter1138> Ok, well, seeing as we can't add new features until 1.9 is branched, I think I will go play Vivecraft for a bit.
15:25:53  <DorpsGek_II> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] Nik-mmzd commented on issue #7266: News font size is bugged if font size was changed for a multiple times https://git.io/fhbTe
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15:27:44  <TrueBrain> MSVC is a bit weird
15:27:48  <TrueBrain> with the cmake support
15:27:51  <TrueBrain> not sure what to think of it tbh :)
15:28:02  <TrueBrain> but okay .. slowly it is getting somewhere
15:28:03  <TrueBrain>  error C2429: attribute 'fallthrough' requires compiler flag '/std:c++17'
15:28:03  <TrueBrain> ugh
15:28:05  <LordAro> llvm make it work, so...
15:28:33  <TrueBrain> what I was hoping, that CMake and MSVC were good friends, so we can drop the 'projects' folder
15:28:40  <TrueBrain> and have one single way of doing it for all platforms
15:28:45  <TrueBrain> but so far I am not the biggest fan
15:28:51  <LordAro> it should be doable, for sure
15:30:10  <milek7> eh, steam-runtime enviornment uses gcc 4.8
15:31:02  <TrueBrain> okay, MSVC is running ... :D
15:31:17  <LordAro> steam runtime environment is basically just a copy of Ubuntu 12.04 system libraries, last time i checked
15:31:42  <TrueBrain> hmmm .. -D ofc doesn't work
15:31:44  <milek7> but it's 2019 now :(
15:31:45  <TrueBrain> and is not translated
15:32:03  <LordAro> milek7: yup.
15:32:14  <TrueBrain> cmake and MSVC are not bestest of friends
15:32:41  <TrueBrain> error C3861: 'SAFEGUARD_DO_NOT_USE_THIS_METHOD': identifier not found
15:34:02  <LordAro> heh
15:34:42  <TrueBrain> so ... why is it using that?
15:34:54  <LordAro> missing define for an include guard, perhaps?
15:39:10  <TrueBrain> okay, first I found out that the endian stuff was not working :D
15:39:16  <TrueBrain> lets fiddle with that first ..
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15:41:54  <TrueBrain> okay, funny, things like -D do work via cmake .. not what I expected, but enfin :)
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15:42:36  <TrueBrain> LordAro: I really do not understand the SAFEGUARD error. It happens on _tcsncpy()
15:43:07  <LordAro> how odd
15:43:23  <LordAro> i don't know about MSVC though, perhaps nielsm knows more?
15:44:02  <peter1138> Hmm, why is CmdCustomNewsItem() in news_*gui*.cpp :/
15:46:31  <DorpsGek_II> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] nielsmh commented on pull request #7267: Fix #7003: Freetype fonts were scaled by both GUI and Font zoom levels. https://git.io/fhbTq
15:47:32  <TrueBrain> if I disable those lines, I also get:
15:47:32  <TrueBrain> unresolved external symbol main referenced in function "int __cdecl __scrt_common_main_seh(void)" (?__scrt_common_main_seh@@YAHXZ)
15:47:35  <nielsm> what are we talking about? :)
15:47:45  <TrueBrain> CMake MSVC compile of OpenTTD :)
15:47:57  <TrueBrain> it is giving me errors I cannot process
15:48:05  <TrueBrain> one of them the above SAFEGUARD_DO_NOT_USE bla
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15:48:13  <TrueBrain> win32.cpp:697
15:48:15  <TrueBrain> is one of them
15:48:25  <nielsm> that's supposed to be defined by safeguard.h
15:48:33  <DorpsGek_II> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] PeterN commented on pull request #7267: Fix #7003: Freetype fonts were scaled by both GUI and Font zoom levels. https://git.io/fhbTY
15:49:17  <TrueBrain> yes .. from what I can see, it is defined there, and that is the reason I get this error?
15:51:16  <nielsm> what does __tcsncat expand to, strncat or wcsncat?
15:51:39  <nielsm> (or, is UNICODE defined?)
15:51:42  <peter1138> I should resign.
15:52:03  <TrueBrain> how do I see that?
15:52:32  <DorpsGek_II> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] PeterN updated pull request #7267: Fix #7003: Freetype fonts were scaled by both GUI and Font zoom levels. https://git.io/fhbUU
15:53:04  <TrueBrain> no clue if UNICODE is defined .. possibly that is completely missing :)
15:53:31  <DorpsGek_II> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] PeterN commented on pull request #7267: Fix #7003: Freetype fonts were scaled by both GUI and Font zoom levels. https://git.io/fhbTc
15:53:56  <TrueBrain> okay, this CMake integration needs work .. let me update first .. (cannot even clean the solution :D)
15:55:24  <DorpsGek_II> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] nielsmh commented on pull request #7267: Fix #7003: Freetype fonts were scaled by both GUI and Font zoom levels. https://git.io/fhbT8
15:58:07  <andythenorth> oof
15:58:19  * andythenorth was cutting ivy with bare hands
15:58:25  <andythenorth> now has itchy hands
15:59:59  <Samu> if industries can produce 15 cargos
16:00:09  <Samu> the industry directory will look really bad
16:00:26  <TrueBrain> okay, unrelated to above, but strgen is weird
16:00:37  <TrueBrain> it doesn't look in the folder given with -s for the file you give it
16:01:07  <nielsm> Samu yes, let's solve that issue when an industry set that actually uses this exists! :D
16:01:29  <nielsm> and some GUI mockups of ideas how to better present it would be a good idea too
16:04:56  <DorpsGek_II> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] PeterN commented on pull request #7267: Fix #7003: Freetype fonts were scaled by both GUI and Font zoom levels. https://git.io/fhbTo
16:06:28  <peter1138> Smallmap looks bad with lots of industry/cargo types.
16:06:59  <DorpsGek_II> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] LordAro approved pull request #7267: Fix #7003: Freetype fonts were scaled by both GUI and Font zoom levels. https://git.io/fhbTK
16:07:19  <TrueBrain> okay, it is strgen that is stupid, not so much CMake acting up
16:07:28  <DorpsGek_II> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] PeterN merged pull request #7267: Fix #7003: Freetype fonts were scaled by both GUI and Font zoom levels. https://git.io/fhbUU
16:08:17  <TrueBrain> only for Mingw it replaced / with \
16:08:18  <TrueBrain> lol
16:09:37  <TrueBrain> there we go ...
16:10:53  <peter1138> andythenorth, sub-variants?
16:11:06  <andythenorth> sub-sub
16:11:14  <andythenorth> imagine the compile time :P
16:11:36  <peter1138> I'm thinking I can steal code from the groups window to do the, er, grouping.
16:11:40  <TrueBrain> hmm .. "/subsystem:console"
16:11:42  <TrueBrain> stupid CMake :P
16:11:46  <peter1138> And that supports sub-groups, heh.
16:12:30  <peter1138> I played Vivecraft for about 10 minutes. Minecraft isn't very good in VR.
16:12:32  <TrueBrain> nielsm: the define UNICODE is not set
16:12:47  <peter1138> It's neat being able to see everything in its real size, but, meh...
16:13:05  <TrueBrain> nielsm: MSVC refuses to tell me what it would do with the _tcsncat
16:13:15  <TrueBrain> (tells me it cannot resolve it)
16:14:24  <nielsm> how it looks in my 2019 version: https://0x0.st/z---.png :/
16:14:26  <andythenorth> peter1138: do it for 1.9? o_O
16:14:35  <nielsm> and that definition is in tchar.h
16:14:38  <peter1138> andythenorth, I think TrueBrain has banned new features ;)
16:14:48  <andythenorth> oof
16:14:52  <andythenorth> how sensible
16:14:58  <peter1138> (I know that's not what he said)
16:15:35  <nielsm> otoh, that code block _tcsncat appears in is only relevant for ancient versions of windows, which we don't even know if can be made work with the C++11 changes
16:15:40  <TrueBrain> hmm .. I think this has to do with how CMake integrates ..
16:15:44  <nielsm> (I think?)
16:16:05  <TrueBrain> I have another at line 495
16:16:10  <TrueBrain> that are the only two in the whole repo
16:16:12  <peter1138> Ahhh, how obvious, "tig" uses insert/delete keys to scroll text up & down by a line.
16:17:39  <TrueBrain> C:\PROGRA~2\MICROS~117\COMMUN~1\VC\Tools\MSVC16~1.270\bin\HostX86\x86\cl.exe  /nologo /TP -DTTD_ENDIAN=TTD_LITTLE_ENDIAN -I"C:\Users\Mine\OpenTTD Projects\repositories\OpenTTD\src" -I"C:\Users\Mine\OpenTTD Projects\repositories\OpenTTD\srcrdparty\squirrel\include" -Igenerated /DWIN32 /D_WINDOWS /W3 /GR /EHsc /MDd /Zi /Ob0 /Od /RTC1   -std:c
16:17:39  <TrueBrain> ++17 /showIncludes /FoCMakeFiles\openttd.dir\src\os\windows\win32.cpp.obj /FdCMakeFiles\openttd.dir\ /FS -c "C:\Users\Mine\OpenTTD Projects\repositories\OpenTTD\src\os\windows\win32.cpp"
16:17:51  <TrueBrain> guess it is missing a flag or something
16:22:50  <TrueBrain> okay, fixed the other issues; it now runs on Windows via MSVC :D
16:28:45  <andythenorth> well
16:33:15  <andythenorth> I have failed entirely at 16 cargo nml :P
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16:37:21  <nielsm> peter1138: fyi that patch did _not_ fix #7266 :)
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16:39:03  <TrueBrain> is there any real reason we #ifdef complete files while they are also excluded from building if not used?
16:39:22  <TrueBrain> (for example, allegro)
16:39:33  <nielsm> TrueBrain: silly imo
16:39:42  <TrueBrain> maybe MSVC  quirk?
16:39:45  <TrueBrain> but even there we exclude files, not?
16:39:53  <nielsm> they aren't even included in the project file there
16:40:04  <TrueBrain> WIN32_ENABLE_DIRECTMUSIC_SUPPORT
16:40:06  <TrueBrain> another one ..
16:40:12  <TrueBrain> I think I can just safely remove it, not?
16:40:24  <nielsm> yeah
16:40:36  <nielsm> it only uses the platform sdk now which you're going to have regardless
16:40:59  <nielsm> and if you don't want dmusic then exclude dmusic.cpp from the build
16:41:19  <TrueBrain> what I was thinking too
16:41:29  <TrueBrain> some are a bit more annoying, like UNISCRIBE
16:41:34  <TrueBrain> other pieces needs to know about that
16:41:50  <TrueBrain> not ideal, but what-ever
16:42:08  <nielsm> actually, some of the sound/music drivers that are not allegro test for allegro and fail if allegro is compiled in
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16:42:42  <TrueBrain> WITH_ALLEGRO is only used in crashlog.cpp, grep tells me?
16:42:50  <TrueBrain> or is it a runtime check?
16:42:56  <nielsm> it might be runtime
16:43:00  <TrueBrain> ah, k :)
16:44:15  <nielsm> https://github.com/OpenTTD/OpenTTD/blob/master/src/music/extmidi.cpp#L42-L45
16:44:39  <TrueBrain> cool, that is no issue for me :)
16:45:04  <TrueBrain> how to detect 64bit in cmake .. hmm
16:49:26  <Samu> firs is a really different beast to tame...
16:50:29  <Samu> anyways, I tried pikka's town and industry newgrf thing
16:50:38  <Samu> it "almost" works there
16:51:04  <Samu> max stockpile cargo doesn't work too well now
16:51:25  <Samu> it's behaving more like a max stockpile cargo per company
16:52:42  <Samu> normal and enhanched production also doesn't work that well
16:53:08  <Samu> it's a "per company" that's ruining it
16:54:04  <Samu> firs is different
16:55:03  <Samu> it only wants to know if cargo x was delivered, it doesn't trigger any immediate cargo transformation
16:55:34  <Samu> it enhances the base production
16:55:51  <Samu> base production is always free for all :|
16:56:34  <andythenorth> make your own?
16:56:37  <andythenorth> newgrf?
16:57:31  <Samu> or give up
16:57:37  <Samu> im more likely to give up
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17:00:37  <Samu> oh well, it was a nice test
17:00:50  <Samu> works for vanilla
17:01:08  <Samu> doesn't work (too well or at all) for newgrfs
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17:12:24  <DorpsGek_II> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] SamuXarick commented on pull request #7243: Change: Decrease the min #opcodes https://git.io/fhbk8
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17:22:57  <Samu> https://github.com/OpenTTD/OpenTTD/pull/6931/files/5a81dfab4d1318722a79bcd2fb0817d16b5fcb62#r259571316
17:23:12  <Samu> there may be another way
17:23:17  <Samu> but i'm too lazy
17:24:13  <Samu> I didn't learn of trackcrossestrack stuff for the 90 degrees before
17:24:42  <Samu> it would not need the table, 95% sure
17:29:51  <Samu> i could compute trackdirs
17:29:54  <TrueBrain> hmmm ... SSE doesn't compile via WSL .. annoying
17:30:35  <Samu> extract the next tiles via trackdir and reversed trackdir
17:30:49  <Samu> then do the 90 degrees crossing right there
17:33:03  <peter1138> 16:37 < nielsm> peter1138: fyi that patch did _not_ fix #7266 :)
17:33:09  <peter1138> nielsm, I never said it did?
17:33:35  <nielsm> it looked related :P
17:34:19  <peter1138> I discovered it when looking, but no, it's not.
17:34:36  <peter1138> And I was annoyed with myself because I was going to request those changes and just went with it anyway. :p
17:35:19  <peter1138> So anyway, I don't know why the font doesn't go back to normal size. That doesn't happen for me.
17:39:36  <nielsm> are you using bitmap or truetype fonts?
17:40:52  <peter1138> I've been testing all. Even using Hack, Bold.
17:42:49  <TrueBrain> dmusic.cpp(1125): error C2664: 'char *convert_from_fs(const TCHAR *,char *,size_t)': cannot convert argument 1 from 'WCHAR [128]' to 'const TCHAR *'
17:42:51  <TrueBrain> meh
17:43:28  <andythenorth> ugh
17:43:34  * andythenorth played tanks a lot
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17:45:37  <Samu> found a 90 degrees bug with ships
17:46:07  <peter1138> Never!
17:46:11  <andythenorth> slay me
17:46:14  <Wolf01> I read it as "found a 90 degree ship which bugs me"
17:46:25  <Samu> gonna try without using yapf
17:46:29  <TrueBrain> so minus some unicode issues via MSVC, I can build via CMake with most settings enabled :D w00p :)
17:46:38  <andythenorth> yay
17:46:55  <TrueBrain> minor shit that fails, like auto-downloading of OpenGFX
17:46:58  <Wolf01> So, this new internet is only 5 times faster than the old one, but it's really noticeable
17:47:04  <TrueBrain> it just tells me I should do that manually .. so some path is wrong
17:47:28  <Samu> no bug with npf
17:47:38  <Samu> must be ship cache?
17:48:07  <TrueBrain> and I need to fix some autodetect rules .. but okay .. most stuff is there now :)
17:48:25  <Samu> peter1138, on the last tile
17:48:30  <TrueBrain> time for some food
17:48:36  <Samu> the destination tile, the ship can make 90 degree turns
17:48:43  <Samu> it shouldn't
17:49:00  <andythenorth> 90 deg turn banning is the worst thing ever :P
17:49:03  <Wolf01> Also my router self rebooted because reasons and now it's not using anymore 100% cpu,
17:50:06  <Samu> im posting savegame
17:50:39  <peter1138> Ok.
17:51:13  <nielsm> Samu: how easy is it to reproduce and will players trigger it by chance very often, and be troubled by it?`
17:51:26  <Samu> ew, im testing this not on master, but it shouldn't be any different
17:51:50  <peter1138> Test it on master ;)
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17:54:35  <DorpsGek_II> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] PeterN commented on issue #7266: News font size is bugged if font size was changed for a multiple times https://git.io/fhbIf
17:55:12  <peter1138> Hmm, maybe I need to be in a different language. Urgh.
17:56:13  <peter1138> Nope.
17:56:59  <nielsm> all I do to reproduce it (on windows) is start a new game, build a train route so I have something to generate "first vehicle arrives" news, then go switch font size to quad and back to normal
17:57:05  <nielsm> and run the train to get some news
17:57:16  <peter1138> And the font stays the wrong size?
17:57:28  <nielsm> the news font stays huge yes
17:57:54  <nielsm> i.e. I change the setting before the news is generated
18:02:51  <Samu> funny, can't trigger it on master, why
18:03:59  <peter1138> nielsm, hmm, I've managed to get to show it unzoomed, despite it being to quad size, but only once.
18:04:14  <Samu> ah, I see
18:04:15  <Samu> Don't call ship pathfinders if there is no available track…
18:04:19  <Samu> this thing was created
18:04:37  <Samu> it inadvertedly fixed the problem
18:10:39  <Samu> nevermind peter1138 this fixed it https://github.com/OpenTTD/OpenTTD/commit/6ca637b8c149efe2cb8ccffccbfd98530f633d58
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18:14:43  <DorpsGek_II> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] Moth-Tolias commented on pull request #7243: Change: Decrease the min #opcodes https://git.io/fhbIR
18:15:01  <DorpsGek_II> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] SamuXarick updated pull request #6931: Change: Prevent town growth from blocking ships https://git.io/fhsRY
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18:16:10  <DorpsGek_II> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] PeterN commented on pull request #7243: Change: Decrease the min #opcodes https://git.io/fhbIg
18:16:52  <peter1138> Samu, just a rebase?
18:16:57  <Samu> yes
18:17:40  <Samu> was working with 250 something commits behind
18:17:43  <Samu> :(
18:18:35  <Samu> i'm thinking of another way to do the same thing
18:19:30  <peter1138> Heh
18:19:39  <peter1138> Heh
18:19:42  <peter1138> It just looks complex
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18:22:35  <DorpsGek_II> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] Moth-Tolias commented on pull request #7243: Change: Decrease the min #opcodes https://git.io/fhbIa
18:22:43  <peter1138> Seems odd that forbidding 90 deg turns comes into it.
18:23:09  *** Thedarkb-T60 has joined #openttd
18:23:33  <peter1138> I'm not sure you even need to check for tracks.
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18:24:24  <andythenorth> oof so how does nml work then?
18:24:29  <andythenorth> it must have a big parse step
18:24:39  <andythenorth> then build some kind actions tree
18:24:41  <andythenorth> resolving IDs
18:24:48  <andythenorth> then some kind of output step
18:24:55  <Faizi> HI
18:25:34  <Faizi> How to start a server
18:26:03  <andythenorth> prod. cb parsing is broken in this rev https://github.com/PeterN/nml/commit/ec4a9f4e6e1785028c829c05b84323220eab6041
18:26:14  <andythenorth> so I guess I look there :P
18:26:34  <peter1138> andythenorth, I know nothing about NML.
18:26:47  <peter1138> Faizi, https://wiki.openttd.org/Server
18:26:53  <Faizi> how to start openttd server?
18:27:27  <nielsm> https://0x0.st/z-oS.mp4  <-- video of a busy airport outside a city with the new town cargogen
18:27:40  <peter1138> Faizi, again, https://wiki.openttd.org/Server
18:27:48  <andythenorth> peter1138: nobody does :)
18:27:59  <peter1138> andythenorth, I don't really know python either.
18:28:23  <andythenorth> seriously wondering about m4nfo
18:28:28  <peter1138> nielsm, what's it like with the old?
18:28:31  <Faizi> peter1138 i have tried many times but i cannot..
18:28:59  <andythenorth> what was wrong with just nfo?
18:29:19  <peter1138> andythenorth, 87 49 db 37 77 64 78 56
18:29:23  <nielsm> peter1138: waiting passengers soar and ratings tank :P
18:29:32  <andythenorth> peter1138: that's not a valid action, obvs
18:29:48  <nielsm> mainly wanted to show that yes with cdist and large cities you can still get plenty of action ;)
18:30:12  <nielsm> 40 buses are not enough to serve that city
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18:30:40  <andythenorth> wondering if I can template nfo?
18:30:46  <andythenorth> it's just replacing constants?
18:30:55  <nielsm> andythenorth that's more or less what m4nfo does
18:31:08  <andythenorth> yeah, if m4nfo had a different author, I'd switch
18:31:13  <andythenorth> the syntax looks better
18:32:45  <andythenorth> so to write my own
18:32:55  <andythenorth> I'd need a table of all the actions, and their byte sizes
18:32:55  <peter1138> nielsm, so it doesn't "fix" it? Hmm.
18:33:10  <andythenorth> and I'd need some classes for the actions
18:33:21  * peter1138 attempts to implement Eddi|zuHause's algorithm in #6931
18:33:21  <andythenorth> and I'd need some stuff for bit mangling
18:33:28  <andythenorth> it's the bit mangling I'd fail at :(
18:33:28  <nielsm> peter1138, the new algo makes it much more manageable but yeah it's still possible to overload a bus network with cdist
18:35:23  <andythenorth> could we just move newgrf editing into OpenTTD?
18:36:15  <Eddi|zuHause> if that goes in textbooks and history as "Eddi|zuHause's algorithm"... :p
18:36:28  <peter1138> :-D
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18:37:59  <andythenorth> Algorithm|zuHause
18:40:48  *** Faizi has quit IRC
18:41:41  <DorpsGek_II> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] nielsmh commented on pull request #6965: Add: Option for population-linear town cargo generation https://git.io/fhbIP
18:42:57  <DorpsGek_II> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] nielsmh updated pull request #6965: Add: Option for population-linear town cargo generation https://git.io/fpkqa
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18:45:48  <Samu> it's not easy
18:53:17  <planetmaker> <andythenorth> wondering if I can template nfo? <-- you can. You did. Or ye ancient 2cctrains did
18:53:39  <planetmaker> but you have about 1000% more boiler plate and hassle
18:54:06  <planetmaker> so you basically have the choice: invest time in nml (and have that shit done once and for all). Or invest that time into every NewGRF
18:54:36  <planetmaker> for a one - on - one comparison it's about even. For doing more than one NewGRF: do the math ;)
18:54:45  <andythenorth> I was thinking of writing a compiler
18:54:50  <andythenorth> 'thinking' is a strong word
18:54:59  <andythenorth> I was considering the downsides of writing a compiler :P
18:55:10  <nielsm> you mean designing a new nml? :D
18:55:21  <andythenorth> 'designing' is a strong word
18:55:24  <andythenorth> 'assembling'
18:55:26  <andythenorth> is better
18:55:32  <planetmaker> nmlc started as a tool which output nfo
18:55:35  <planetmaker> it still can
18:56:19  <planetmaker> nml surely has a lot of shortcomings. The biggest plus is: it's there. And not vapourware
18:56:27  <andythenorth> it's so slow though
18:56:35  <andythenorth> and no-one wants to maintain it :)
18:56:49  <andythenorth> the upsides are large
18:56:50  <TrueBrain> get a better cpu
18:56:54  <andythenorth> but it's kind of dead and dying
18:57:09  <andythenorth> I seriously considered buying a desktop machine just for compiling newgrfs
18:57:22  <planetmaker> seriously... how bad can it be?
18:57:23  <TrueBrain> or .. use azure pipelines :D
18:57:44  <andythenorth> but it won't go much faster, it's single threaded, and single-threaded CPU perf is underwhelming
18:58:16  <planetmaker> and honestly, your firs surely eat twice the time because your wrote a programming language to write nml ;)
18:58:26  <andythenorth> planetmaker: it's about 1m10s versus 2s
18:58:35  <andythenorth> and no, the python steps are marginal
18:58:38  <andythenorth> nmlc is a slow slow pig
18:58:41  <peter1138> Eddi|zuHause, hmm, seems to work.
18:58:45  <andythenorth> and it's not keeping up with OpenTTD
18:58:55  <andythenorth> so I can't make newgrfs to test nightly features
18:59:05  <andythenorth> as a project, it's currently nead ded
18:59:07  <andythenorth> dead :)
18:59:17  <peter1138> Meh
18:59:20  <andythenorth> if I want to test nightlies I need to use nfo
18:59:31  <andythenorth> so I might as well go back to that and get the speed benefit
19:00:05  <andythenorth> I did try writing a linker for nml fragments, but it failed on string IDs
19:00:15  <andythenorth> it was much faster, except it didn't work
19:00:21  <peter1138> Hmm, do towns ever raise water to build on?
19:00:32  <nielsm> no
19:00:36  <peter1138> Ok.
19:00:56  <Eddi|zuHause> andythenorth: reimplement nmlc in C++? :)
19:01:00  <planetmaker> yes :|
19:01:01  <Samu> they can remove houses that were built on water
19:01:11  <Samu> "partial water"
19:01:27  <planetmaker> he... it is really the nmlc which takes ages on firs
19:01:30  <andythenorth> wonder how it runs with pypy
19:01:44  <peter1138> Sure.
19:01:46  <planetmaker> real	0m57,546s
19:01:46  <planetmaker> user	0m56,869s
19:01:46  <planetmaker> sys	0m0,421s
19:01:50  <peter1138> This algorithm is a bit simpler.
19:01:57  <Eddi|zuHause> when CETS blew up, it was mostly the lex/yacc part of nmlc that was sloooooow
19:02:14  <andythenorth> I think frosch cached the parsing step somehow
19:02:14  <Eddi|zuHause> it has a problem with large files
19:02:21  <planetmaker> sprite encoding is done in a C-module
19:02:34  <Eddi|zuHause> there's a sprite cache
19:02:34  <andythenorth> anyone got pypy installed?
19:02:34  <planetmaker> frosch wrote it time ago
19:03:37  <Eddi|zuHause> yeah, i vaguely remember a sprite cache
19:03:51  <planetmaker> that. But also the encoding itself
19:04:58  <Eddi|zuHause> "ImportError: No module named chameleon"
19:04:58  <LordAro> if there's a C-module, pypy won't work at all
19:05:11  <DorpsGek_II> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] michicc approved pull request #7265: Fix #7004: Mark linkgraph dirty to be rebuilt on next draw call. https://git.io/fhbIj
19:05:46  <planetmaker> LordAro, it's not required
19:05:55  <planetmaker> it just is quite a speed-up
19:06:10  <Eddi|zuHause> "ImportError: No module named markdown"
19:06:13  <Eddi|zuHause> what is this magic?
19:06:20  <planetmaker> at least I think. I didn't test for ages
19:06:29  <nielsm> I'm surprised the lex/parse of nmlc is the expensive part, usually I'd expect that to not be too bad
19:06:34  <Eddi|zuHause> also, this is still python2? or
19:06:37  <nielsm> maybe the library used for it is too much meta?
19:06:59  <planetmaker> PLY: 3.9
19:07:04  <nielsm> I think it uses some funky docstring magic
19:07:15  <LordAro> what's doing the parsing?
19:07:18  <nielsm> to declare the syntax rules
19:07:18  <andythenorth> Eddi|zuHause: you trying FIRS?
19:07:23  <andythenorth> python3.5 or so
19:07:54  <Eddi|zuHause> andythenorth: it didn't work when i did pip3, only after pip2 it worked
19:08:06  <peter1138> ^ Samu
19:08:12  <Eddi|zuHause> or am i having ancient firs?
19:08:35  <Eddi|zuHause> real    1m34,723s
19:08:36  <Eddi|zuHause> user    1m30,021s
19:08:38  <Eddi|zuHause> sys     0m4,434s
19:09:00  <Eddi|zuHause> <nielsm> I'm surprised the lex/parse of nmlc is the expensive part <-- iirc it had to do with string handling
19:09:26  <Eddi|zuHause> python doesn't do dynamic strings very well
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19:11:36  <andythenorth> Eddi|zuHause: that's appalling times :P
19:11:40  <andythenorth> how old is your CPU?
19:11:43  <DorpsGek_II> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] michicc commented on pull request #7147: Change: Synchronize randomness in vehicle introduction… https://git.io/fhbLU
19:11:47  <Eddi|zuHause> hm... 6 years or so?
19:11:53  <Eddi|zuHause> 7?
19:11:56  <Eddi|zuHause> not sure
19:12:09  <Eddi|zuHause> i wanted to buy a new one, never really got around
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19:12:33  <planetmaker> for good factorio fun I'll need a new computer... somewhen. Or at least graphics card :P
19:12:51  <Eddi|zuHause> uh... Sep 2010
19:12:55  <LordAro> planetmaker: there was a recent FFF about how they made the whole thing much more efficient
19:13:14  <planetmaker> LordAro, yes, I read it. Yet... my GPU is... really lacking :)
19:13:18  <Faizi> Can some one tell me the link of original Open TTD download
19:13:28  <Eddi|zuHause> there is no such link
19:13:30  <planetmaker> !download
19:13:41  <Eddi|zuHause> www.openttd.org
19:13:51  <Faizi> thanks
19:13:52  <planetmaker> thank you Eddi|zuHause :P
19:13:52  <LordAro> what do you mean by "original" ?
19:13:59  <LordAro> @download
19:13:59  <DorpsGek> LordAro: http://www.openttd.org/downloads.php
19:14:03  <LordAro> oof
19:14:07  <LordAro> does that still work?
19:14:09  <planetmaker> php?
19:14:14  <nielsm> 404
19:14:16  <LordAro> lol
19:14:37  <Faizi> some links are fake or down version ORIGINAL
19:14:43  <planetmaker> https://www.openttd.org/downloads/openttd-releases/latest.html <-- and edit the version number, if you need anything else
19:15:28  <LordAro> Faizi: which links are you finding that aren't working?
19:15:46  <planetmaker> or rather: where?
19:16:15  <peter1138> So I submitted a PR to Samu  :p
19:16:21  <Samu> hmm?
19:16:27  <peter1138> https://github.com/SamuXarick/OpenTTD/pull/3
19:16:27  <Samu> ok
19:16:42  <peter1138> Assuming Eddi|zuHause's algorithm is correct, that should be it.
19:16:49  <peter1138> And it does certainly seem to work for mel.
19:17:06  <peter1138> This is for #6931
19:17:29  <peter1138> -l
19:17:30  <nielsm> so you made a pr to modify a pr
19:17:39  *** Faizi has quit IRC
19:17:50  <LordAro> guess we'll never know
19:17:56  <peter1138> nielsm, yes :-)
19:18:11  <peter1138> This is what distributed version control is about ;)
19:19:45  <DorpsGek_II> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] PeterN merged pull request #7265: Fix #7004: Mark linkgraph dirty to be rebuilt on next draw call. https://git.io/fhFpA
19:19:51  <DorpsGek_II> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] PeterN closed issue #7004: Cargo flow legend does not get redrawn in additional area when zoomed out https://git.io/fhLjv
19:20:31  <Samu> ah, i was working on it too
19:20:45  <planetmaker> andythenorth, with pypy it doesn't find my ply... not sure how to tell it about it
19:20:50  <Samu> was trying a way which wouldnt need to use tables
19:20:55  <Samu> still thinking
19:21:04  <andythenorth> planetmaker: have you got pypy virtualenv?
19:21:09  <nielsm> but tables are good?
19:21:17  <nielsm> when they make things simples to express
19:21:30  <planetmaker> andythenorth, no, not yet
19:21:47  <planetmaker> I wonder ... whould work in a conda env
19:26:39  <peter1138> They're not the end of the world.
19:26:55  <peter1138> In this case we need 3 results, and the table means we don't need to calculate it all.
19:27:08  <DorpsGek_II> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] LordAro requested changes for pull request #7254: Codechange: introduce a few unit tests https://git.io/fhbLs
19:27:36  <DorpsGek_II> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] Eddi-z commented on pull request #7147: Change: Synchronize randomness in vehicle introduction… https://git.io/fhbLG
19:28:46  <DorpsGek_II> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] PeterN commented on pull request #7262: Change: Smooth AI CPU usage by spreading out AI ticks in relation to competitor speed. https://git.io/fhbLn
19:29:18  <DorpsGek_II> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] LordAro approved pull request #7243: Change: Decrease the min #opcodes https://git.io/fhbLc
19:29:54  <DorpsGek_II> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] PeterN commented on pull request #7147: Change: Synchronize randomness in vehicle introduction… https://git.io/fhbLC
19:32:41  <DorpsGek_II> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] LordAro commented on pull request #7238: Codechange: Remove assert when trying to intersect two tile areas and… https://git.io/fhbLW
19:35:03  <TrueBrain> wait, what, unittests? :P
19:35:13  <TrueBrain> that is to modern, stop doing that :(
19:35:33  <LordAro> TrueBrain: current approach is certainly all wrong :p
19:35:56  <TrueBrain> right, why doesn't the game want to download gfx on its own ..
19:36:02  <TrueBrain> why does it sometimes say: he, I can download shit for you
19:36:06  <TrueBrain> other times it just gives this error message
19:36:08  <TrueBrain> hmm
19:36:08  <DorpsGek_II> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] Eddi-z commented on pull request #7147: Change: Synchronize randomness in vehicle introduction… https://git.io/fhbL8
19:36:12  <TrueBrain> location of 'bin'?
19:37:38  <LordAro> i've never been certain of the distinction either
19:38:06  <TrueBrain> owh, it complains it cannot find sound sets
19:38:08  <TrueBrain> like that is important
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19:39:59  <Beerbelott> Hello
19:40:21  <Beerbelott> Do you know if there is a way for a password-protected password to avoid sending the list of companies on query?
19:40:52  <peter1138> Second password should be server?
19:42:13  <nielsm> I don't think there is an option to keep the companies list secret for clients that don't have the server password, no
19:42:37  <LordAro> maybe someone should file an issue about it
19:44:59  <nielsm> there's another suggestion to always join a server as spectator isn't there
19:45:07  <nielsm> which would also sort of solve the problem
19:45:13  <nielsm> maybe merge the two idea?
19:45:32  <nielsm> "force join as spectator" which does not present the company list before joining the server
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19:46:42  *** ChanServ sets mode: +v glx
19:48:10  <DorpsGek_II> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] LordAro requested changes for pull request #7235: Change: Non-rectangular sparse station catchment area https://git.io/fhbLE
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19:53:16  <TrueBrain> that moment you follow a manual, and it doesn't work
19:53:18  <TrueBrain> I just hate that
19:56:34  <TrueBrain> ah .. had to clean the cache
19:56:40  <TrueBrain> vcpkg and cmake are also good friends
19:56:41  <TrueBrain> that is nice :)
19:56:48  *** joost[m] has left #openttd
19:57:50  <TrueBrain> ah, working directory support from CMake is only in VS2019
19:57:54  <TrueBrain> that is annoying :D
19:58:25  <DorpsGek_II> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] PeterN commented on pull request #7235: Change: Non-rectangular sparse station catchment area https://git.io/fhbLo
20:00:30  <DorpsGek_II> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] PeterN commented on pull request #7235: Change: Non-rectangular sparse station catchment area https://git.io/fhbL6
20:02:28  <andythenorth> so I need to put some prints into nml eh
20:02:33  <andythenorth> I never did learn pdb :P
20:03:00  <nielsm> there is a python debugger?
20:03:05  <andythenorth> pdb
20:03:31  <nielsm> I always made do with logging, and splitting thing into parts I could try in the repl
20:03:38  <DorpsGek_II> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] PeterN commented on pull request #7235: Change: Non-rectangular sparse station catchment area https://git.io/fhbLX
20:03:57  <andythenorth> I suspect the trouble is in p_produce2
20:04:20  *** snail_UES_ has joined #openttd
20:04:33  <DorpsGek_II> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] PeterN commented on pull request #7235: Change: Non-rectangular sparse station catchment area https://git.io/fhbL1
20:05:21  <peter1138> This is awkard. A PR review is just one notification. But the replies to each point in it are individual notices!
20:05:27  <peter1138> Sorry for spamming :p
20:06:50  <TrueBrain> one of the more annoying things about GitHub :(
20:06:57  <TrueBrain> also depends on how you review, tbh
20:07:40  <andythenorth> hmm, all I can get it to do is print the invalid token :(
20:07:51  <andythenorth> can't see anywhere p_error is called
20:07:53  <TrueBrain> why do I need a soundset to play the game? :(
20:07:55  <peter1138> Should I cycle tomorrow, or just piss about on the computer all morning?
20:07:58  <peter1138> TrueBrain, you don't.
20:07:59  <TrueBrain> why does a dedicated server need a soundset ..
20:08:04  <glx> review can spam notification if you do individual comments ;)
20:08:06  <TrueBrain> "Error: Failed to find a sounds set. Please acquire a sounds set for OpenTTD. See section 4.1 of README.md."
20:08:18  <TrueBrain> $ ./openttd -D
20:08:27  <peter1138> I may need the baseset metadata for no sound, however.
20:08:54  <glx> no sound is present by default IIRC
20:09:01  <TrueBrain> where?
20:09:41  <nielsm> the build process is supposed to put no_sound.obs in bin/baseset/
20:09:51  <TrueBrain> one thing that always annoyed me about OpenTTD, but I never looked into it .. you need things in places which are .. hard to figure out
20:09:54  <TrueBrain> once it works, it works
20:11:29  <andythenorth> I don't see any parser change here that I can insert prints into :( https://github.com/PeterN/nml/commit/ec4a9f4e6e1785028c829c05b84323220eab6041
20:11:42  <TrueBrain> nielsm: tnx, that was the piece I needed
20:11:53  <TrueBrain> would be nice if the error suggested that :P
20:12:04  <TrueBrain>  Base musicset detail loading: description field missing.
20:12:07  <TrueBrain> : /orig_dos.obm readable for the user running OpenTTD?
20:12:08  <TrueBrain> lol
20:12:30  <andythenorth> wonder if this commit only works at all with the following commit
20:12:35  <andythenorth> oof
20:12:43  <andythenorth> should the be squashed together?
20:12:50  <andythenorth> https://github.com/PeterN/nml/commits/16-in-out
20:12:51  <nielsm> https://github.com/PeterN/nml/blob/ec4a9f4e6e1785028c829c05b84323220eab6041/nml/parser.py#L454-L455
20:12:58  <andythenorth> 34ad7c6f51b5840e4f5e79ec783a456cec22ecab
20:13:00  <nielsm> those two lines are those defining the syntax
20:13:04  <andythenorth> nd ec4a9f4e6e1785028c829c05b84323220eab6041
20:13:04  <Samu> TrackToTrackdir is ambiguous
20:13:06  <Samu> :(
20:13:19  <glx> why ?
20:13:32  <nielsm> but the p_produce definition above is unchanged and should still allow the original syntax
20:13:37  <glx> it converts a Track into a Trackdir
20:13:44  <andythenorth> that's what confuses me nielsm
20:13:54  <TrueBrain> hmm, 'description' really is missing in the obm files
20:13:56  <TrueBrain> is that a bug?
20:13:59  <nielsm> maybe the syntax needs to be changed in a dumb way
20:14:05  <andythenorth> oh does nml just select on the first 'produce:' it finds?
20:14:14  <andythenorth> I have now idea how the parsing rules work
20:14:17  <nielsm> like make it: PRODUCE LPAREN produce_params RPAREN
20:14:29  <Samu> converts into one of the trackdirs
20:14:34  <nielsm> and then have produce_params be a switch between the three possibilities
20:14:40  <Samu> a bit random
20:14:41  <andythenorth> does it look for rules matching the token in the block?
20:14:43  <Samu> no certainty
20:14:44  <Beerbelott> nielsm: Thx for the info (sry for delayed answer) I'll file an issue if there is not one already
20:14:47  <Samu> which one
20:15:12  <nielsm> andythenorth the parser is supposed to try all rules for a definition, as far as I know
20:15:18  <DorpsGek_II> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] LordAro updated pull request #7245: Remove: OPF https://git.io/fhd3e
20:15:28  <peter1138> Samu, hmm?
20:15:31  <nielsm> so the rule in p_produce and those in p_produce2 are supposed to merge
20:16:33  <nielsm> oh wait, the old produce syntax ends with SEMICOLON and the new one does not
20:16:38  <nielsm> maybe that makes a difference?
20:16:50  <Eddi|zuHause> andythenorth: what is the exact problem you're facing?
20:17:07  <andythenorth>  how exact do you want it>
20:17:12  <Eddi|zuHause> very
20:17:19  <nielsm> Eddi|zuHause I think it stopped accepting the old syntax
20:17:28  <andythenorth> the goal is to merge the 16 cargos in, 16 cargos out fork
20:17:42  <planetmaker> nielsm, andythenorth just remove the old syntax and implement a new one. No big harm
20:17:42  <andythenorth> currently it's blocked because it won't compile existing grfs
20:17:53  <planetmaker> we maintain compatibility by a (legacy) branch
20:18:09  <glx> TrueBrain: it's ok for me and MSVC
20:18:15  <Eddi|zuHause> andythenorth: example syntax?
20:18:25  <TrueBrain> glx: I am testing this on Linux, so that is possible I guess
20:18:26  <DorpsGek_II> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] Berbe opened issue #7268: Suggestion: Option not to disclose server information when password-protected https://git.io/fhbLp
20:18:31  <DorpsGek_II> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] PeterN commented on pull request #7235: Change: Non-rectangular sparse station catchment area https://git.io/fhbLh
20:18:31  <TrueBrain> obs is fine, obm is not
20:18:38  <TrueBrain> even on latest master
20:19:08  <planetmaker> treat it like python treats compatibilty :)
20:19:16  <andythenorth> https://paste.openttdcoop.org/p081e9gnw
20:19:24  <andythenorth> fails with
20:19:25  <andythenorth> nmlc ERROR: "generated/firs.nml", line 7342: Syntax error, unexpected token "waiting_cargo_1"
20:19:36  <TrueBrain> can any of you test it on linux; do the obm files have a description field?
20:19:38  <LordAro> planetmaker: how much effort would it be for you to make an ogfx 0.5.3(?) with the 4 group sprites its currently missing?
20:19:45  <andythenorth> AIUI, it's now expecting a cargo list
20:20:01  <peter1138> TrueBrain, yes.
20:20:06  <andythenorth> planetmaker: that's an appealing route, but a big jump :P
20:20:10  <peter1138> They have description, and translations.
20:20:17  <TrueBrain> so ... why don't my obms :(
20:20:22  <TrueBrain> especially as the obs do
20:20:26  <TrueBrain> same codepath, give or take
20:20:47  <TrueBrain> also no error or warning
20:20:50  <Eddi|zuHause> andythenorth: you must merge the produce and produce2 functions, and move the distinction into the semantic analysis
20:20:59  <peter1138> Hmm.
20:21:07  <Eddi|zuHause> andythenorth: the parser cannot distinguish it with the given rules
20:21:15  <andythenorth> right
20:21:53  <LordAro> should we branch then update the changelog & friends (on the branch), or the other way around?
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20:22:29  <TrueBrain> executing the awk manually also is without description
20:22:34  <Samu> whatever, gonna test peter1138 stuff instead
20:22:35  <andythenorth> ok so how do we analyse the tokens to figure out which version of the cb we have?
20:22:36  * andythenorth has literally no idea :P
20:23:01  <glx> checking in mingw
20:23:04  <peter1138> Uh, what... fitbit says I can eat 7000 kcal today. I'm pretty sure that is wrong!
20:23:05  <DorpsGek_II> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] planetmaker commented on issue #7268: Suggestion: Option not to disclose server information when password-protected https://git.io/fhbtU
20:23:11  <DorpsGek_II> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] planetmaker closed issue #7268: Suggestion: Option not to disclose server information when password-protected https://git.io/fhbLp
20:23:16  <peter1138> Samu, might as well, I mean I wrote it and tested it and it seems to work.
20:23:22  <peter1138> I didn't even design it ;p
20:23:40  <TrueBrain> so ... what to check why description is empty here?
20:23:49  <TrueBrain> not much debugging info other than: "it does not work" :P
20:23:51  <peter1138> Are your lang files built?
20:23:58  <TrueBrain> yes
20:24:02  <peter1138> Hmm, no, it doesn't need them built anyway.
20:24:02  <TrueBrain> langfiles.tmp is populated
20:24:07  <glx> english.txt provides the base lang
20:24:08  <TrueBrain> awk is running
20:24:15  <TrueBrain> string can be found when I grep for it
20:24:34  <TrueBrain> it pauses for a bit when it should do descriptions, so it is doing something
20:24:42  <Samu> create a merge commit, squash and merge or rebase and merge? what to do?
20:24:51  <Samu> i want to test
20:24:53  <Eddi|zuHause> andythenorth: basically, in "produce.Produce()" you must check whether the 2nd and 3rd list entries are cargo lists, then use the new rules, else fall back to the old rules
20:25:07  <DorpsGek_II> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] nielsmh commented on issue #7268: Suggestion: Option not to disclose server information when password-protected https://git.io/fhbtq
20:25:07  <planetmaker> LordAro, not so much. It just needs figuring out which are missing, adding those, and then releasing it
20:25:32  <planetmaker> LordAro, I shall do that before 1.9.0 without any -beta/rc becomes a thing
20:25:42  <planetmaker> but please keep reminding me :)
20:25:42  <LordAro> :)
20:25:43  <TrueBrain> and why does obs work but obm not .. this is weird
20:26:27  <planetmaker> nielsm, sorry, if I was too fast to close the issue :P I really think the main part here is: removing the info is undesirable
20:26:37  <Samu> i hate gitbug
20:26:40  <Samu> github
20:26:46  <glx> works for mingw too TrueBrain
20:26:50  <Eddi|zuHause> andythenorth: alternatively, move the LBRACKET/RBRACKET out of the produce_cargo_list, into produce2, then that should work like it is now
20:26:53  <Samu> the website is too complex
20:26:57  <TrueBrain> what to do to debug this ..
20:26:58  <peter1138> Oh right, apparently I forgot to stop my ride last night, so even though my Garmin was off, fitbit thinks I was exercising all night.
20:27:05  <peter1138> 4000kcal instead of 300kcal lol
20:27:13  <planetmaker> hehe :)
20:27:13  <andythenorth> ha ha
20:27:16  <LordAro> planetmaker: ha
20:27:17  <LordAro> er
20:27:21  <LordAro> peter1138: ha
20:27:27  <planetmaker> :D
20:29:41  <Eddi|zuHause> andythenorth: so if that reads something like "produce : PRODUCE LPAREN ID COMMA LBRACKET produce_cargo_list RBRACKET COMMA LBRACKET produce_cargo_list RBRACKET COMMA expression RPAREN"
20:29:48  <Eddi|zuHause> it should work
20:29:58  <Eddi|zuHause> in produce2
20:31:38  <TrueBrain> there are \rs in my obm files
20:31:40  <TrueBrain> but not in my obs files
20:31:50  <glx> oh
20:32:26  <andythenorth> Eddi|zuHause: same error persists :)
20:32:35  <andythenorth> that's interesting
20:32:42  <TrueBrain> that is ... very odd
20:32:51  <TrueBrain> especially as it is on a linux mount
20:33:23  <TrueBrain> it even shows up as a diff
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20:33:31  <glx> we have some broken files in the repo
20:33:40  <Beerbelott> nielsm: https://github.com/OpenTTD/OpenTTD/issues/7268
20:33:43  <Beerbelott> THat got closed
20:33:49  <TrueBrain> that should give more people issues, not?
20:34:06  <andythenorth> WARNING: There is 1 unused rule
20:34:07  <andythenorth> WARNING: Symbol 'produce_cargo_list' is unreachable
20:34:10  <glx> depends on the file I guess
20:34:22  <DorpsGek_II> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] LordAro commented on pull request #7225: Add: Various AI/GS functions that may be useful. https://git.io/fhbtG
20:34:24  <glx> there's at least 1 cpp with mixed line endings
20:34:25  <andythenorth> and produce2 is not called before the error happens
20:34:27  <TrueBrain> ugh, I cannot commit this, as I have git configured to ignore line endings, and always commit with \n
20:34:27  <TrueBrain> lol
20:34:39  <Eddi|zuHause> andythenorth: what can i check out?
20:34:47  <Eddi|zuHause> clone url?
20:34:48  <andythenorth> brb
20:35:30  <TrueBrain> I hate line endings
20:35:38  <Eddi|zuHause> andythenorth: so that approach is not going to work, ats it wants to fit stuff into the p_produce() rule now
20:35:57  <Eddi|zuHause> andythenorth: so you really need the semantic analysis step
20:35:59  <planetmaker> https://github.com/OpenTTD/nml/pull/15 @ Eddi|zuHause . iirc
20:36:32  <TrueBrain> no clue where the error is, as the line ending keeps on hiding ... it works now, what-ever
20:37:10  <andythenorth> Eddi|zuHause: https://github.com/andythenorth/firs
20:37:27  <andythenorth> and https://github.com/PeterN/nml/tree/16-in-out
20:38:12  <peter1138> Samu, if you want to just test it, "git pr <PR> <REMOTE>" so possibly "git pr 3 origin"
20:38:19  <peter1138> Although... hmm that might be an extension.
20:38:28  <TrueBrain> time to install VS2019 .. see how that CMake integration is doing :)
20:38:38  <Eddi|zuHause> "git: 'pr' ist kein Git-Befehl"
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20:38:48  <planetmaker> sounds somewhat non-standard @ peter1138 . Yet like an interesting git extension
20:38:49  <faizee> hi
20:39:09  <peter1138> Ah yeah, it's in git-extras.
20:39:26  <peter1138> planetmaker, gotta say, it's a godsend.
20:39:36  <faizee> how to start a server in openttd/
20:39:36  <peter1138> I always forget the longhand :P
20:39:59  <peter1138> faizee, again,https://wiki.openttd.org/Server
20:40:06  <glx> oh and of course translations.awk changes EOL on mingw
20:40:18  <TrueBrain> OpenTTD\bin> ..\..\..\..\CMakeBuildsa9e0753-b318-cc38-bb77-257a59230490\build\x86-Release\openttd.exe
20:40:20  <TrueBrain> that works :D
20:40:31  <nielsm> faizee, what part of setting up the server are you having trouble with?
20:40:47  <faizee> please tell me few steps i cant find any thing on these links
20:40:54  <TrueBrain> glx: is there anything we can do about the awk/vbs .. is there something common between linux/windows .. especially when looking at CMake?
20:40:59  <TrueBrain> we could script it in CMake I guess
20:41:01  <nielsm> faizee, do you have the game installed and can play singleplayer?
20:41:10  <planetmaker> faizee, just start OpenTTD. And start a multiplayer game
20:41:11  <faizee> yes
20:41:25  <faizee> ok thanks
20:41:50  <faizee> have you ever started an server?
20:41:55  <planetmaker> you might need to tell your router and your OS to allow connections from extern to your computer. Details... on the URL you had quoted several times
20:42:11  <planetmaker> !password
20:42:12  *** planetmaker was kicked by DorpsGek (Wrong channel. Retry in #openttdcoop.)
20:42:17  <Eddi|zuHause> peter1138: as a git-imbecile, how do i make "git pr" work?
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20:42:22  *** ChanServ sets mode: +o planetmaker
20:42:23  <TrueBrain> hahahaha :D That is one old command :P
20:42:31  <TrueBrain> the good times people kept thinking this was openttdcoop :D
20:42:32  <planetmaker> lol :D
20:42:35  <peter1138> Install "git-extras" on Debian. I dunno elsehwere.
20:42:45  <glx> I still command the bot yes
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20:42:52  <peter1138> You're looking for a package that provides "git-pr"
20:42:58  <peter1138> /usr/bin/git-pr, that is.
20:43:00  <faizee> stoppppppppppppppppppppppppppppppppppppppppppppppppppppppppp
20:43:08  <planetmaker> :) will do. thanks peter
20:43:09  <faizee> staertttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttt
20:43:13  <glx> I addded a pr alias here
20:43:20  <Eddi|zuHause> peter1138: can't find anything
20:43:28  <peter1138> Eddi|zuHause, what system?
20:43:44  <Eddi|zuHause> Opensuse
20:44:02  <planetmaker>         fetch = +refs/pull/*/head:refs/remotes/origin/pr/*
20:44:02  <planetmaker>  <-- I have that in remote "origin". So I can locally checkout each PR
20:44:10  <glx> if no git-extras you still can use alias
20:44:13  <DorpsGek_II> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] LordAro requested changes for pull request #7193: Fix #6468: Load correct version of AI as specified during the time of its save. https://git.io/fhbtw
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20:44:41  <planetmaker> faizee, I guess many here have started a server, both on remote machines as locally... you just need to follow the steps
20:44:46  <planetmaker> and follow them properly
20:46:02  <TrueBrain> that moment you find out VS2019 can't handle spaces in folders when using CMake
20:46:03  <TrueBrain> owh boy
20:46:10  <planetmaker> yay... sudo dnf install git-extras :)
20:46:25  <planetmaker> stupid windoze :)
20:46:29  <glx> TrueBrain: for CMake I don't know exactly how it works, I suppose it creates a solution a give it to MSBuild
20:46:32  <Eddi|zuHause> <planetmaker>  <-- I have that in remote "origin" <-- more words on that, please?
20:46:43  <TrueBrain> glx: no, not really
20:46:46  <TrueBrain> but it works fine on VS2017
20:46:49  <TrueBrain> they broke it on VS2019
20:46:51  <TrueBrain> it is funny like that
20:46:57  <faizee> ok
20:47:13  <TrueBrain> (and I have a space in the path exactly for this reason, as I wanted to spot mistakes I made with escaping :D)
20:47:14  <planetmaker> https://paste.openttdcoop.org/ptxdthou9 @ Eddi|zuHause
20:47:25  <planetmaker> I copied it from fr0sch, iirc
20:48:05  <faizee> tell me steps
20:48:42  <planetmaker> !port
20:48:45  <planetmaker> !ports
20:48:47  <planetmaker> :(
20:48:50  <LordAro> @ports
20:48:50  <DorpsGek> LordAro: OpenTTD uses TCP and UDP port 3979 for server <-> client communication, UDP port 3978 for masterserver (advertise) communication (outbound), and TCP port 3978 for content service, a.k.a. BaNaNaS (outbound)
20:48:55  <planetmaker> :)
20:48:56  <LordAro> planetmaker: ya numpty
20:49:28  <LordAro> faizee: read the wiki link provided above, then if it doesn't work, tell us what didn't work
20:49:29  <TrueBrain> yippie, VS2019 does do the Working Directory correct
20:49:29  <TrueBrain> sweet
20:49:44  <TrueBrain> okay, I can now build with VS2019 + vcpkg + CMake, and it is even somewhat workable :)
20:49:48  <TrueBrain> (no project files)
20:49:49  <faizee> my port is 192 168 1 255
20:49:54  <Eddi|zuHause> planetmaker: thx
20:50:02  <faizee> 3979
20:50:06  <planetmaker> faizee, that's your *IP* in *your* local network
20:50:42  <LordAro> not a .255 address it isn't
20:50:43  <planetmaker> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Port_forwarding is needed on your router
20:50:52  <LordAro> that's your broadcast address
20:50:58  <glx> TrueBrain: but project files are nice to work with MSVC :)
20:51:02  <LordAro> well, it could be, but it's unlikely
20:51:19  <TrueBrain> glx: possibly we should use folders more :P
20:51:31  <glx> yeah that too
20:51:41  <DorpsGek_II> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] PeterN commented on pull request #7235: Change: Non-rectangular sparse station catchment area https://git.io/fhbti
20:51:51  <TrueBrain> as using Visual Studio Code is horrible :P Such a long list of filenames ..
20:52:19  <planetmaker> Eddi|zuHause, backdraw is that "git fetch" pulls *all* pull-requests. But... that's ok for me
20:52:55  <Eddi|zuHause> planetmaker: i usually specify a branch with fetch
20:53:01  <faizee>  119.160.67.150 this is my public
20:53:01  <peter1138> planetmaker, drawback.
20:53:20  <planetmaker> true. thx
20:53:31  <faizee> is it work
20:53:34  <milek7> vs2017 does workdir settings in some json, very un-windows way ;d
20:53:37  <milek7> they changed it in vs2019?
20:53:48  <TrueBrain> LordAro: I pushed a tons of shit to my cmake branch (well, 1 commit, I was lazy)
20:53:52  <planetmaker> faizee, we don't know how to configure your router. Only you know it
20:53:56  <glx> I have     pr = "!f() { git fetch -fu ${2:-$(git remote | grep ^upstream || echo origin)} refs/pull//head:pr/ && git checkout pr/; }; f" in [alias] section of git config
20:54:01  <glx> works well
20:54:03  <peter1138> My bottle of wine ran out :(
20:54:14  <TrueBrain> LordAro: feel free to commit in my branch btw
20:54:37  <faizee> where you are doing this/
20:55:03  <faizee> send me web link
20:55:29  <glx> it's router dependant
20:55:40  <glx> each model is different
20:56:27  <Eddi|zuHause> glx: thx, i put that into my global gitconfig
20:56:37  <faizee> Thanks for hhelp
20:56:40  <faizee> help
20:56:57  <peter1138> glx, yup, that's what I had before.
20:57:15  <faizee> !name @Faizan
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20:57:47  <Eddi|zuHause> now... i completely forgot what i tried to do :p
20:59:38  <andythenorth> checkout the nml fork? o-o
20:59:53  <andythenorth> fix the semantic analysis?
21:00:47  <milek7> why would anybody drink alcohol?
21:00:48  <milek7> it has only negative effects
21:01:08  *** Terwa347 has joined #openttd
21:01:17  <Terwa347> heloo
21:01:21  <planetmaker> I... should have looked at my default .gitconfig
21:01:25  <planetmaker>  20         fetchpr = !sh -c 'git fetch  pull//head:pr' -
21:01:31  <Eddi|zuHause> milek7: at least historically, it was safer to drink alcoholic drinks than water from some random well
21:01:48  <Eddi|zuHause> ... which may carry all sorts of diseases
21:01:54  <planetmaker> or not default? comment indicates I added it but forgot :P
21:02:10  <Terwa347> heloooo
21:02:18  <planetmaker> 26 # Example usage of "fetchpr":
21:02:18  <planetmaker>  27 # git fetchpr <remote> <pr-number>
21:02:18  <planetmaker>  28 # git fetchpr openttd 6939
21:02:18  <planetmaker>  29 # git checkout pr6939
21:02:34  <Eddi|zuHause> planetmaker: doesn't sound very default-y
21:02:40  <planetmaker> yep :P
21:02:43  <Terwa347> hiiiiiiiiii
21:02:58  <planetmaker> yes, hi
21:03:04  <Terwa347> ok
21:03:13  <glx> no need to repeat it 3 times ;)
21:03:23  <Terwa347> i am from india
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21:04:38  *** Faizan has joined #openttd
21:05:23  <planetmaker> Faizan, and when you have told your router to do the proper port-forwarding - you might still tell your OS (windows?) to allow that, too in your firewall settings
21:05:50  <Faizan> yes
21:06:30  <TrueBrain> glx: can you estimate the impact of the change in strgen here: https://github.com/TrueBrain/OpenTTD/commit/05e996c3bbf69ffc5140117174215af3f203dd63
21:06:34  <TrueBrain> I think it is okay, but I am not sure
21:06:51  <Eddi|zuHause> andythenorth: so, basic strategy: 1) remove p_produce2, 2) p_produce calls a disambiguation function, which checks the types of t[something] whether it's an expresion or a list, and then returns Produce() or Produce2()
21:07:26  <planetmaker> I still don't want two produce... :P
21:07:31  <milek7> Faizan: do you have mobile connection?
21:08:22  <DorpsGek_II> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] TrueBrain opened pull request #7269: Fix c3dbe836b4: also compile without ENABLE_NETWORK defined again https://git.io/fhbqt
21:08:27  <TrueBrain> peter1138 is to blame ^^  :P :P
21:08:36  <peter1138> Oh not again.
21:08:42  <peter1138> Can we remove that bullshit? :(
21:08:50  <Eddi|zuHause> planetmaker: that would be the next step :)
21:09:13  <peter1138> I mean, the ability to compile without networking.
21:09:26  <TrueBrain> we used to target DOS, which doesn't have networking available
21:09:28  <TrueBrain> :P
21:09:38  <planetmaker> :D
21:09:45  <TrueBrain> possibly a better solution, if we want to keep this, is to stub all the network functions
21:09:50  <TrueBrain> and remove the #ifdefs from all over the place
21:09:58  <Eddi|zuHause> definitely that
21:10:20  <TrueBrain> but, removing no-network-support .. doesn't sound like a horrible idea ;)
21:10:26  <peter1138> Yes please. I'll only keep messing it up :-)
21:10:27  <peter1138> Oh.
21:10:44  <glx> TrueBrain: the change is supposed to activate / to \ replacement for MSVC ?
21:10:45  <TrueBrain> something for 2.0 :D
21:10:52  <TrueBrain> glx: yes, well, also
21:11:06  <TrueBrain> I was doing non-mingw Windows builds :P
21:11:09  <TrueBrain> (via MSBuild, so yeah)
21:11:10  <glx> because _WIN32 is enabled for all windows compilers
21:11:31  <TrueBrain> yes; and all Windows executables us \ not?
21:11:43  <TrueBrain> so I couldn't really figure out why strgen did do it when compiled with mingw32
21:11:46  <TrueBrain> and not when compiled with msvc
21:11:54  <TrueBrain> meant that if you use the msvc binary in a mingw build, it fails
21:12:15  <TrueBrain> but ... this is exactly why I am asking, as I am not really sure why this came to be :)
21:12:33  <glx> I guess the project files where using \ only
21:12:50  <glx> *were
21:12:51  <TrueBrain> with cmake, things change a bit :)
21:12:56  <TrueBrain> so I take it the change is fine :)
21:13:08  <glx> so enabling it for MSVC should be ok
21:13:16  <Faizan> YES MILEK7
21:13:38  <TrueBrain> why is there gen-kdev4.sh in the projects folder .. we support that? :)
21:15:08  <planetmaker> would be nice
21:16:11  <glx> TrueBrain: applied change locally, it still works :)
21:16:32  <TrueBrain> glx, good, tnx :)
21:16:32  <planetmaker> but... gen-kdev4.sh seems... somewhat buggy:
21:16:37  <planetmaker> ./projects/gen-kdev4.sh: Zeile 19: printf: Fehlende hexadezimale Ziffer nach \x.
21:16:43  <TrueBrain> well, I am going to remove it all, and replace it with cmake :)
21:17:27  <DorpsGek_II> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] PeterN updated pull request #7235: Change: Non-rectangular sparse station catchment area https://git.io/fh5s1
21:18:13  <glx> TrueBrain: and just check on my debian VM, no missing description for obs nor obm
21:18:51  <milek7> Faizan: then it may don't work at all
21:19:12  <milek7> mobile providers typically block incoming connections
21:19:24  <DorpsGek_II> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] PeterN commented on pull request #7235: Change: Non-rectangular sparse station catchment area https://git.io/fhbqn
21:20:13  <glx> even if they don't block all ports you usually don't have access the the configuration
21:20:20  <Eddi|zuHause> andythenorth: oh, other alternative, try changing "p_produce" rule from "expression_list" to "expression COMMA expression COMMA ..."
21:20:59  <Eddi|zuHause> andythenorth: then the parser can distinguish it by the number of commas
21:21:11  <peter1138> LordAro, as a bonus, my non-rect visualisation still works, so nothing broke with those changes. I hope. ;)
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21:22:58  <DorpsGek_II> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] TrueBrain opened pull request #7270: Introduce CMake (and removing all other project-related code) https://git.io/fhbqc
21:23:04  <peter1138> !
21:23:06  <TrueBrain> one big WIP :)
21:23:46  <peter1138> Thie removes: configure / Makefile ... Things still to do: remove configure / Makefile
21:23:49  <peter1138> Hmmmmmmmmmmmm
21:23:57  <DorpsGek_II> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] nielsmh commented on pull request #7235: Change: Non-rectangular sparse station catchment area https://git.io/fhbqC
21:24:19  <TrueBrain> peter1138: cool aint it? :D
21:25:15  <TrueBrain> added details how to test it .. might be nice
21:25:30  <Faizan> I ALSO HAVE WINDOWS
21:25:46  <Faizan> I am using windows 10
21:26:20  <TrueBrain> so far I am pretty happy with CMake .. it really allows to do all our project stuff in a single way, instead of all the different ones we have :)
21:26:44  <planetmaker> TrueBrain, but how do I make it with your PR?
21:26:51  <planetmaker> cmake . does error for me
21:27:17  <TrueBrain> like I just said, I updated it with build details
21:27:22  <TrueBrain> but also, "error for me" is not descriptive
21:27:28  <TrueBrain> if you provide more details, I can help out :)
21:27:36  <glx> oh I already have cmake, need to check if it's the vcpk one though
21:27:43  <glx> or an old install
21:28:00  <Eddi|zuHause> andythenorth: try https://paste.openttdcoop.org/pyhxujcqj?
21:28:03  <planetmaker> it wants me to run it from the bin dir...
21:28:12  <TrueBrain> glx: I haven't tested mingw btw; for MSVC you need to add some lines in the CMakeSettings.json; but vcpkg explains that
21:28:23  <TrueBrain> planetmaker: either follow what I wrote in the PR, or follow what is on your screen :)
21:28:24  <glx> hmm 2.6-patch 4 should be an old version
21:28:31  <planetmaker> and there it tells me the same
21:28:33  <TrueBrain> not sure I agree with LordAro's suggestion to run it from the bin directory :P
21:28:47  <planetmaker> running from bin dir: -1 from me
21:28:49  <TrueBrain> glx: you need 3.5+
21:29:03  <TrueBrain> I hate to repeat myself, but again: I updated the PR to tell you how to build it :)
21:29:06  <TrueBrain> let me know if that fails :)
21:29:18  <planetmaker> I ran git fetch 5 seconds ago...
21:29:25  <planetmaker> literally
21:29:26  <TrueBrain> the PR; not the code :)
21:29:31  <LordAro> cmake is not supposed to run an "in source" build
21:29:38  <glx> yes I have read the PR :)
21:29:39  <TrueBrain> planetmaker: https://github.com/OpenTTD/OpenTTD/pull/7270
21:29:41  <TrueBrain> there :)
21:29:51  <TrueBrain> glx: I was talking to planetmaker, sorry :D
21:29:54  <LordAro> you're supposed to do an "out of source" build, so running cmake <something other than .>
21:30:01  <TrueBrain> LordAro: yeah; but the 'bin' folder is an odd suggestion :)
21:30:02  <LordAro> that can be bin, or it could be any other directory
21:30:10  <planetmaker> TrueBrain, no change...
21:30:11  <TrueBrain> it leaves too many files around
21:30:17  <planetmaker> CMake Error at CMakeLists.txt:4 (message):
21:30:17  <planetmaker>   In-source builds not allowed.  Please run "cmake .." from the bin directory
21:30:24  <planetmaker> cmake 3.11
21:30:28  <TrueBrain> what is your pwd?
21:30:34  <planetmaker> build
21:30:38  <planetmaker> as you write there
21:30:39  <Eddi|zuHause> didn't we have an "objs" dir?
21:30:47  <TrueBrain> planetmaker: now that is odd :)
21:30:49  <TrueBrain> what OS?
21:30:53  <planetmaker> F28
21:31:09  <andythenorth> Eddi|zuHause: no longer fails :)
21:31:24  <TrueBrain> that is .. hmmm
21:31:51  <TrueBrain> planetmaker: can you add two lines after the first line in CMakeLists.txt:
21:32:03  <TrueBrain> message(STATUS "${CMAKE_SOURCE_DIR}")
21:32:03  <Eddi|zuHause> andythenorth: side effect is that error messages on wrong number of parameters will likely be less descriptive
21:32:07  <TrueBrain> message(STATUS "${CMAKE_BINARY_DIR}")
21:32:14  <TrueBrain> and run it again?
21:32:21  <planetmaker> where therein?
21:32:44  <TrueBrain> in CMakeLists.txt
21:32:46  <TrueBrain> after the first line
21:32:49  <TrueBrain> add these 2 lines
21:33:07  <TrueBrain> (not sure which part you didn't understand, don't ment to be rude by repeating myself :P)
21:33:35  <peter1138> Hmm, towns behave very oddly when they're not allowed to build roads.
21:33:44  <planetmaker> -- /home/planetmaker/ottd/OpenTTD-master
21:33:44  <planetmaker> -- /home/planetmaker/ottd/OpenTTD-master
21:33:53  <TrueBrain> eeuuuhhh ..
21:33:54  <planetmaker> yet... pwd is -- /home/planetmaker/ottd/OpenTTD-master
21:33:54  <planetmaker> -- /home/planetmaker/ottd/OpenTTD-master/build
21:34:03  <planetmaker> the latter
21:34:13  <TrueBrain> I have never seen CMake fucking up his BINARY dir ..
21:34:23  <TrueBrain> basically, CMake disagrees that you are in build :)
21:34:26  <TrueBrain> hmm
21:34:27  <peter1138> build is not outside the tree, is it?
21:34:28  <TrueBrain> git status
21:34:34  <TrueBrain> remove any stray CMake file?
21:34:50  <TrueBrain> I can guess that your first run created a file it got stuck on
21:34:59  <TrueBrain> CMakeCache.txt
21:35:27  <planetmaker> ah. That... helps
21:35:33  <TrueBrain> pfew :D you were scaring me :D
21:35:41  <TrueBrain> good to know CMake gives that priority ..
21:35:47  <TrueBrain> bit silly, tbh
21:36:23  <peter1138> -- FluidSynth: NO
21:36:25  <peter1138> ;(
21:36:34  <TrueBrain> ccmake
21:36:35  <TrueBrain> or cmake-gui
21:36:38  <TrueBrain> and flip it to YES :P
21:36:42  <TrueBrain> I did not do all autodetect yet :)
21:36:49  <peter1138> Command not found. Hmm.
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21:36:58  <TrueBrain> which command?
21:37:12  <andythenorth> so where do we apply fixes, when I have a remote checkout of peter1138's rebase of nielsm's branch?  And we need to fix a broken previous commit?
21:37:16  <Samu> peter1138, you're doing incomplete tests :(
21:37:23  <Samu> https://github.com/PeterN/OpenTTD/commit/13bd5df0387a3204588fd870b6a649baaea1738b
21:37:23  <peter1138> Samu, oh?
21:37:32  <Eddi|zuHause> i have ccmake, but no cmake-gui
21:37:33  <planetmaker> https://paste.openttdcoop.org/p84xxtbjf @ TrueBrain linking error
21:37:38  <Eddi|zuHause> (not trying either)
21:37:39  <peter1138> peter1138, yes, that's my diff.
21:37:41  <peter1138> errr
21:37:43  <TrueBrain> Eddi|zuHause: ccmake is ncurses, cmake-gui is QT :)
21:37:43  <Samu> you're only checking if there is any water track
21:37:47  <peter1138> Samu, yes, that's my diff. What's missing.
21:37:47  <Samu> not what it's like
21:37:55  <peter1138> Isn't that sufficient?
21:37:56  <Eddi|zuHause> TrueBrain: well, i was guessing as much :p
21:38:01  <TrueBrain> planetmaker: ah, yes; remove src/rev.cpp :)
21:38:09  <TrueBrain> I have to fix that :P
21:38:10  <Samu> no imo
21:38:36  <planetmaker> no rule to create ../src/rev.cpp
21:38:45  <Eddi|zuHause> apparently cmake-gui is a separate package
21:38:58  <planetmaker> ah... re-run cmake
21:39:11  <DorpsGek_II> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] TrueBrain updated pull request #7270: Introduce CMake (and removing all other project-related code) https://git.io/fhbqc
21:39:31  <TrueBrain> planetmaker: fixed; it will no longer pick up rev.cpp that might have been there from older runs :) (in ROOT/src/rev.cpp)
21:39:51  <TrueBrain> still have to fix the MSVC issue with UNICODE something ..
21:39:55  <nielsm> Samu: is it this stupid edge case you're talking about? https://0x0.st/z-Xj.png
21:39:58  <peter1138> TrueBrain, confusing, some thigns are ON/OFF and some are YES/NO. "ON" and "NO" look very similar.
21:40:20  <TrueBrain> peter1138: they should all be YES/NO
21:40:26  <TrueBrain> what shows you ON/OFF?
21:40:31  <TrueBrain> (and this is a known issue with CMake indeed)
21:40:34  <planetmaker> ew... failed to load titlegame
21:40:38  <planetmaker> with the cmake build
21:40:43  <TrueBrain> planetmaker: cd ../bin && ../build/openttd
21:40:44  <peter1138> SSE, FluidSynth
21:40:54  <peter1138> Those are the ones I've configured with ccmake.
21:41:02  <TrueBrain> peter1138: ah, so ccmake uses ON/OFF
21:41:05  <TrueBrain> that is .. annoying
21:41:06  <peter1138> (Command not found, I had to install it separately)
21:41:27  <Eddi|zuHause> so can you do ON/NO? :p
21:41:27  <TrueBrain> depends on your OS, but yes, ccmake tends to be installed :)
21:41:32  <TrueBrain> Eddi|zuHause: yes
21:41:38  <peter1138> Hmm, SSE fails to compile.
21:41:42  <Samu> no
21:41:45  <TrueBrain> peter1138: I had the same, so I disabled it :P
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21:41:48  <TrueBrain> didnt look into it yet
21:42:21  <peter1138> Samu, what case are you checking for?
21:42:27  <TrueBrain> planetmaker: but so it linked for you; good :D
21:42:38  <peter1138> Ah, and it doesn't link fluidsytnh :0
21:42:59  <TrueBrain> -DFLUIDSYNTH is not set yet
21:42:59  <andythenorth> nmlc ERROR: "generated/firs.nml", line 30275: Cargo list must be an array with no more than 2 values
21:43:01  <TrueBrain> so that is possible
21:43:03  <andythenorth> thought that was fixed :P
21:43:16  <peter1138> multiple definition of `IsReleasedVersion()`
21:43:28  <TrueBrain> peter1138: either remove src/rev.cpp, or update to latest version of PR :)
21:43:33  <Samu> https://imgur.com/kacSUtW something like this
21:43:42  <peter1138> Oh, you updated it while it was building.
21:43:45  <TrueBrain> owh, no, -DFLUIDSYNTH isnt needed
21:43:53  <TrueBrain> yes, because planetmaker also found that bug :)
21:44:06  <peter1138> It's not including the library during linking, is all.
21:44:12  <TrueBrain> guess fluidsynth just needs a find_package call
21:44:14  <Samu> there's water tracks in opposite, there's water track in tile 1 and there's water track in tile 2
21:44:18  <TrueBrain> yeah, that is an easy fix
21:44:22  <Samu> but building on the track
21:44:31  <Samu> doesn't mean the others are connecte
21:44:32  <Samu> d
21:44:43  <andythenorth> nml won't accept prod_cargo_types: [cargotype("MNO2"),cargotype("PETR"),cargotype("RUBR")];
21:44:49  <peter1138> Samu, they have to be connectedf.
21:45:18  <andythenorth> I thought https://github.com/PeterN/nml/commit/029eff8bc5dff503a225e76a46e417e3cf7c8a40 added 16 cargos to the props
21:46:07  <andythenorth> seems we didn't test it?
21:46:08  <peter1138> Well, okay, tile 1 could be blocked with a depot or something, but I don't think such a small case warrants making the code overly complex.
21:46:48  <Samu> why not if it works already?
21:47:30  <Eddi|zuHause> andythenorth: look for remaining calls to cargo_list()?
21:47:35  <peter1138> Just because it's already written doesn't mean we should add overly complex code.
21:47:58  <andythenorth> this needs rethought :P
21:48:07  <peter1138> However, yes you are right, opposite is blocking. Hmm.
21:48:14  <glx> oh nice first thing to do after getting the PR is discard 3047 modified files
21:48:19  <planetmaker> I cannot say I like cmake. But the build process definitely looks nicer
21:48:20  <peter1138> Don't need to check tile2/tile1 tracks though.
21:48:29  <andythenorth> using FIRS to test nmlc is clown shoes
21:48:30  <planetmaker> Yet... I don't like that I simply can start it from OpenTTD main dir
21:48:33  <andythenorth> FIRS is huge
21:48:41  <Samu> i guess it really needs to be complex
21:48:48  <TrueBrain> planetmaker: those are easily resolvable issues, which have nothing to do with cmake
21:48:48  <peter1138> I suspect it really doesn't need to be complex.
21:48:49  <Samu> to be 100% certain it works
21:48:57  <TrueBrain> we have to fix that up in the current build process too
21:49:01  <TrueBrain> as we have some weird constraints
21:49:32  <TrueBrain> (Basically, you get a 'make' that runs cmake for you in a folder like 'build' :P)
21:49:53  <nielsm> andythenorth: because the accept/prod cargo types properties were restored to only produce the old GRF data
21:49:58  <TrueBrain> so if that is the only thing you don't like, it is easily solved :D
21:50:09  <nielsm> and there is a new nml property that combines them instead
21:50:16  <Eddi|zuHause> what always annoyed me when projects use cmake is that you can't type "./configure" like everywhere else
21:50:19  <nielsm> https://github.com/OpenTTD/nml/commit/842a383ceadb92a187fbbcc9024866a68523c02f
21:50:25  <peter1138> Samu, why would you make that sample on land? :p
21:50:37  <TrueBrain> Eddi|zuHause: the more you use cmake, the less you want to try that :)
21:50:45  <Eddi|zuHause> you must first figure out "ah it's using cmake", then "md build", and then it gets complicated...
21:50:48  <TrueBrain> (and given more and more projects are using cmake ... :)
21:51:04  <Samu> it's easier for me to visualize the tracks
21:51:07  <TrueBrain> but yeah, I see many projects having a 'configure' script
21:51:09  <TrueBrain> that runs cmake :P
21:51:19  <nielsm> andythenorth, use my winterwonderland WIP to test nmlc with: https://0x0.st/s5CN.zip
21:51:19  <Eddi|zuHause> that's preferable, imho
21:51:21  <planetmaker> I'm +-0 to it in general. Eddi just summarizes it :D
21:51:31  <TrueBrain> Eddi|zuHause: it is just a habbit
21:51:36  <Faizan> how to create a website. which is good to use
21:51:38  <nielsm> it uses the new properties and prod cb
21:51:49  <TrueBrain> so there is a lot of debate if you should move with the habit, or just learn people not to have the habit :)
21:51:58  <Eddi|zuHause> have a "dummy" ./configure that creates the build dir and runs cmake in that
21:52:31  <Eddi|zuHause> TrueBrain: i don't see any harm in the habit. keep it simple
21:52:34  <glx> TrueBrain: looks like the "how to handle \r" in gnutools debate
21:52:45  <TrueBrain> Eddi|zuHause: the harm is technical debt
21:52:49  <milek7> "ah it's using cmake" -> mkdir build;cd build;cmake ..;make
21:52:58  <TrueBrain> by keeping those "glue", you keep adding complexity
21:53:09  <TrueBrain> so there are 2 camps .. just learn the new tool .. or keep the glue
21:53:13  <andythenorth> we should add the tests to nml/examples
21:53:15  <TrueBrain> Python is having the same issue currently with setup.py :)
21:53:17  <Eddi|zuHause> TrueBrain: if a script with 4 lines is "complexity"?
21:53:19  <andythenorth> as we were doing
21:53:29  <TrueBrain> Eddi|zuHause: basically, any line to support N is complexity
21:53:37  <TrueBrain> for the same reason .gitignore should not ignore all the editors
21:53:39  <TrueBrain> sure, they are only lines
21:53:43  <TrueBrain> but ... where do you stop :)
21:53:54  <Eddi|zuHause> TrueBrain: you offload these 4 lines to everyone checking out the source is better?
21:53:57  <TrueBrain> but again, this is exactly what people are debating
21:53:58  <TrueBrain> so meh
21:53:59  <TrueBrain> goldplating
21:54:07  <TrueBrain> "everyone" is an overstatement :)
21:54:18  <Faizan> can u send me the server gs download link
21:54:27  <Faizan> or admin
21:54:27  <TrueBrain> but I am only pointing out that people are having this debate over and over on the internet
21:54:32  <TrueBrain> just showing you there are 2 camps to the story
21:55:06  <planetmaker> TrueBrain, so the argument for cmake is "meh, some people use it and change is good for its own sake"?
21:55:15  <TrueBrain> planetmaker: huh?
21:55:21  <TrueBrain> why ... do you say that?
21:55:22  <planetmaker> sorry, but that's just how you currently argue pro cmake :)
21:55:27  <glx> the main argument is one script for all platforms
21:55:28  <Eddi|zuHause> TrueBrain: tbh, i see that the ./configure is a bad solution, the better solution would be for a simple "cmake" call should do all this standard setup
21:55:31  <TrueBrain> no .. we were talking about configure bootstrap planetmaker :)
21:55:33  <TrueBrain> nothing more, nothing less :)
21:55:48  <TrueBrain> Eddi|zuHause: I like the 'make' bootstrap personally
21:55:52  <TrueBrain> but lets get there when we get there :)
21:56:01  <milek7> autotools is so awful that I'm surprised it survived that long
21:56:13  <Eddi|zuHause> TrueBrain: so how is a "makefile" better than a "configure"?
21:56:18  <TrueBrain> planetmaker: I seriously wonder how you made that jump :) Eddi|zuHause and me were just talking about having './configure' that calls cmake or not :)
21:56:23  <TrueBrain> we were not debating cmake itself :)
21:56:32  <TrueBrain> Eddi|zuHause: nope; it is just what I personally prefer
21:56:33  <peter1138> Samu, ok, we only need to check 1 track exists.
21:56:35  <glx> ok removed the 3047 useless files from the repo
21:56:38  <TrueBrain> mostly as I add stuff like 'make run' in there
21:56:43  <peter1138> On the opposite tile.
21:56:52  <Faizan> send me the link of server gs game script please
21:57:06  <TrueBrain> Eddi|zuHause: guess that preference comes from: ./configure && make
21:57:15  <TrueBrain> only configure is not useful
21:57:18  <TrueBrain> so I can do without it
21:57:19  <TrueBrain> or something
21:57:20  <TrueBrain> it is weird
21:57:24  <TrueBrain> people are weird :P
21:57:33  <planetmaker> TrueBrain, well, the jump from "there are two parties" to "an argument for and against" is very small
21:57:48  <Samu> yes
21:57:49  <glx> well first restart powershell as I uninstalled the old cmake then installed the new cmake
21:57:52  <TrueBrain> planetmaker: we really only talked about ./configure bootstrap or not .. there are 2 camps there :)
21:57:54  <planetmaker> that's how I read it. And I didn't mean it offencive. Sorry if I came accross as such
21:58:00  <planetmaker> -c
21:58:03  <Faizan> stopppppppppppppppppppppppppppppppppppppppppppp Keeeep QUUUUUUUUUUUUUUit
21:58:03  <TrueBrain> no worries :) I was trying to understand you :)
21:58:06  <nielsm> Faizan: you're better off asking on tt-forums, setting those things up is not simple, and I don't think any of us in here actually know very much about running an OTTD server in practice
21:58:11  <TrueBrain> IRC is difficult :P
21:58:14  <peter1138> Samu, I'll add it.
21:58:39  <Faizan> oooooooooooooo
21:58:41  <Samu> but ship depots will be the other problem
21:58:46  <glx> D:\developpement\GitHub\glx22\OpenTTD\build [pr/7270]> cmake ..
21:58:46  <glx> -- Building for: Visual Studio 15 2017
21:58:46  <glx> -- Selecting Windows SDK version 10.0.17763.0 to target Windows 10.0.17134.
21:58:46  <glx> -- The C compiler identification is MSVC 19.16.27026.1
21:58:46  <glx> -- The CXX compiler identification is MSVC 19.16.27026.1
21:58:48  <glx> nice
21:59:03  <TrueBrain> glx: I did not try that route yet :P
21:59:06  <TrueBrain> let me know what it brings
21:59:07  <planetmaker> <TrueBrain> so there are 2 camps .. just learn the new tool .. or keep the glue <-- that's where I came from
21:59:15  <TrueBrain> planetmaker: ah :D
21:59:20  <TrueBrain> yeah, glue was a bit unclear there :P
21:59:20  <nielsm> Faizan: we're working hard on improving the core game, but the practicals of actually running a game server are somewhat different from that :P
21:59:25  <Faizan> who is playing multiplayer at that time
21:59:35  <TrueBrain> but to answer the question anyway: cmake removes all the custom config.lib code we have
21:59:46  <TrueBrain> the thousands of incompatible lines with <insert OS here>
21:59:52  <andythenorth> no-one here really plays MP
21:59:53  <TrueBrain> cmake solved that very much
22:00:06  <planetmaker> yep, starting to see that, TB :)
22:00:15  <glx> -- OS: WIN32
22:00:15  <glx> -- Dedicated: NO
22:00:16  <glx> -- Network: YES
22:00:16  <glx> -- Allegro: NO
22:00:16  <glx> -- Cocoa: NO
22:00:16  <glx> -- SDL: NO
22:00:16  <glx> -- DirectMusic: YES
22:00:18  <glx> -- FluidSynth: NO
22:00:18  <glx> -- LibTimiditiy: NO
22:00:20  <glx> -- SSE: NO
22:00:20  <glx> -- Threads: YES
22:00:21  <TrueBrain> (because every library has its own cmake that comes with it for that OS when installing .. as everyone is using cmake these days)
22:00:22  <glx> -- Uniscribe: YES
22:00:23  <glx> seems correct
22:00:23  <TrueBrain> glx: SPAM!
22:00:25  <planetmaker> yet I also see, that compilation for me does get twice as complicated ;)
22:00:48  <planetmaker> ./configure && make > mkdir build && cd build && cmake .. && make
22:01:02  <TrueBrain> planetmaker: goldplating; we can easily make that just 'make'
22:01:05  <Faizan> tell me your server adress
22:01:05  <TrueBrain> that is not the issue :)
22:01:13  <TrueBrain> and as mentioned, we can even keep the ./configure
22:01:19  <TrueBrain> but that is all just gold plating
22:01:25  <planetmaker> I want my bikeshed goldplated. NOW! :P
22:01:26  <TrueBrain> currently ./configure calls our own config.lib
22:01:36  <TrueBrain> cmake just replaces config.lib
22:01:38  <TrueBrain> and all MSVC projects
22:01:42  <TrueBrain> so no more generating of project files
22:01:49  <TrueBrain> so ... everything is the same, basically
22:01:53  <planetmaker> and I know that "can be done" things often end up "meh, never" :P
22:02:05  <TrueBrain> only do the things people ask for
22:02:09  <planetmaker> (judging from myself) :P
22:02:19  <TrueBrain> so if this PR is done, and nobody notice anymore that they miss configure
22:02:21  <TrueBrain> why add it? :)
22:02:25  <Eddi|zuHause> TrueBrain: i think you now have enough cases of "people asked for it" :p
22:02:26  <glx> hmm adding build to .gitignore is probably required
22:02:29  <TrueBrain> that is why I call it gold plating .. doing some gold now, is silly :)
22:02:36  <Samu> https://imgur.com/O0XbHlK
22:02:41  <Samu> ship depot problem
22:02:49  <Samu> + forbid 90 degrees problem
22:02:54  <TrueBrain> Eddi|zuHause: you now ask for it as it is like: OMG I AM NOT USED TO THIS PANIC :P
22:03:02  <TrueBrain> (which is totally how every human ever works)
22:03:07  *** Faizan has quit IRC
22:03:12  <glx> because it now shows 84 modified/new files
22:03:19  <TrueBrain> but the first prio is getting it in a workable state
22:03:26  <TrueBrain> with all the features attached that are a MUST :)
22:03:28  <Eddi|zuHause> TrueBrain: no, i ask for this because i've been through the same steps a few times already
22:03:35  <Eddi|zuHause> TrueBrain: and it's annoying me
22:03:47  <TrueBrain> Eddi|zuHause: fair enough; still, I write it as a COULD, but this is OSS, so you can always contribute :)
22:03:48  <nielsm> Samu: you just proved that "forbid 90 deg turns" is a bad idea for ships, becuase there just is no solution to that layout
22:03:48  <glx> hmm make doesn't work
22:04:05  <andythenorth> oh wait
22:04:11  <andythenorth> nml cargo syntax has changed?
22:04:12  <TrueBrain> glx: 'build' ... or call it 'sweetypie' .. the name is free :)
22:04:16  <nielsm> andythenorth yes
22:04:27  <andythenorth> so we need to use the cargotype entity?
22:04:28  <andythenorth> https://github.com/PeterN/nml/commit/842a383ceadb92a187fbbcc9024866a68523c02f#diff-4f9eba8f8f19c28dee32528003cdc1ecR47
22:04:33  * nielsm looks at topic
22:04:38  <TrueBrain> Eddi|zuHause: just to be clear: I am not saying we should NOT do it; I am just saying, it is goldplating, and not important NOW (to me)
22:04:45  <nielsm> I wonder if that #openttd.dev suggestion may be worth taking for once?
22:04:53  <glx> and of course make fails as there's no Makefile, only vcxproj :)
22:05:04  <nielsm> hmm wait no it's no longer there
22:05:07  <nielsm> :D
22:05:10  <TrueBrain> glx: you created a MSVC project? Nice!
22:05:12  <nielsm> (I did not look at the topic)
22:05:34  <Samu> i thought i proved 90 degrees was also important in the decision
22:05:35  <planetmaker> nielsm, the channel exists
22:05:37  <Samu> :(
22:05:38  <andythenorth> ok so for 16 cargo FIRS I need to rewrite my nml templates
22:05:39  <andythenorth> ok
22:05:40  <TrueBrain> but if the only problem is: I cannot do the autotools way, I am not worried :P
22:05:44  <peter1138> Samu, what's the issue there?
22:06:09  <TrueBrain> I am worried, how-ever, why VS2017 and VS2019 don't want to compile for reasons I cannot understand
22:06:11  <Samu> if 90 degrees are allowed, houses don't build on 'tile'
22:06:13  <glx> ok now I try the other option
22:06:26  <Samu> if 90 degrees are forbidden, houses build on 'tile'
22:06:30  <TrueBrain> dmusic.cpp(1125): error C2664: 'char *convert_from_fs(const TCHAR *,char *,size_t)': cannot convert argument 1 from 'WCHAR [128]' to 'const TCHAR *'
22:06:39  <TrueBrain> like .... where did I go wrong? :(
22:06:40  <peter1138> Samu, 90 degrees option should not affect how towns expand.
22:06:41  <nielsm> peter1138: ship depots can be traversed by any ship, also those owned by other companies than the depot, but they only allow traversal in one direction (they don't have trackdirs out the sides)
22:06:50  <nielsm> so you can make "tunnels" of them where ships can't leave
22:06:59  <nielsm> meaning it can restrict movement in tight spaces
22:07:31  <TrueBrain> glx: are MSVC projects Unicode or Multibyte Character Set?
22:07:36  <TrueBrain> (you happen to know?)
22:07:41  <Samu> because the ship couldn't walk with 90 degrees forbidden
22:07:44  <nielsm> this is another case of, you can't prevent griefing by players intent on ruining the day for others
22:07:59  <Eddi|zuHause> TrueBrain: if i check out source code of an OSS project, and then fight half an hour trying to compile it with incomplete/diverging documentation of "how to compile", then i've lost all interest in contributing to said project
22:08:00  <nielsm> and you can't detect the difference between intentional griefing and unintentional consequences
22:08:12  <glx> would need to open them for that (they are too big for github desktop to show the diff)
22:08:15  <TrueBrain> Eddi|zuHause: yes, I understand what you are trying to say
22:08:30  <TrueBrain> Eddi|zuHause: I also hope you understand what I try to say: first get it to work, than get all features in, than work on goldplating
22:08:37  <peter1138> Samu, that's only because you test the 90 degree setting, and needlessly test tracks on adjacent tiles.
22:08:44  <peter1138> Samu, I've updated the PR.
22:08:55  * andythenorth wakes up
22:09:03  <andythenorth> what have houses got to do with 90 deg?
22:09:09  <peter1138> andythenorth, exaclty.
22:09:11  <andythenorth> did I drop some pills and not notice?
22:09:19  <Samu> :|
22:09:23  <peter1138> 22:06 <@peter1138> Samu, 90 degrees option should not affect how towns expand.
22:09:27  <andythenorth> I don't do drugs, have I accidentally taken some?
22:09:45  <andythenorth> houses have fuck all to do with 90 degrees
22:09:55  <andythenorth> and 90 degrees was a realism foamer mistake anywy
22:10:05  <nielsm> you can't retroactively have towns destroy some houses because someone toggled the "allow 90 deg turns" switch mid game
22:10:26  <andythenorth> 90 degrees *needs removed*
22:10:32  <andythenorth> how many times does it need saying?
22:10:59  <TrueBrain> N - 1
22:11:01  <andythenorth> it's a stupid feature that is wasting ridiculous amounts of time in discussing irrelevaant PRs
22:11:21  <andythenorth> about 25% of the channel is just spam about 90 deg
22:11:21  <Samu> :|
22:11:26  <andythenorth> and the rest is me complaining about that
22:11:42  <peter1138> 50% is you complaining about nml.
22:11:52  <nielsm> "disallow 90 deg turns" was never intended to be for anything but ships
22:11:56  <nielsm> anything but trains
22:11:57  <nielsm> sorry
22:12:08  <nielsm> who decided it should apply to ships, and when?
22:12:15  <Eddi|zuHause> i've no clue
22:12:18  <Samu> no idea
22:12:23  <Eddi|zuHause> never made any sense to me
22:12:30  <planetmaker> neither me
22:12:40  <peter1138> Samu, so is this an "issue" that applies to the PR I gave you?
22:12:49  <planetmaker> so a setting to be removed. cleanup: remove 90° for all but trains
22:12:50  <planetmaker> done
22:12:52  <Samu> let me check again
22:12:52  <TrueBrain> glx: found it, it is unicode indeed
22:13:03  <DorpsGek_II> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] TrueBrain updated pull request #7270: Introduce CMake (and removing all other project-related code) https://git.io/fhbqc
22:13:08  <andythenorth> planetmaker: + lots
22:13:09  <peter1138> I can't see how it can be.
22:13:11  <TrueBrain> meh; wish draft PRs would not spam every time
22:13:22  <peter1138> Samu, you'll need to update, because I pushed to it.
22:13:23  <glx> it's also stdcpp17
22:13:37  <TrueBrain> MSVC runs c++17, yes
22:13:42  <TrueBrain> the rest runs c++11
22:13:50  <TrueBrain> silly? yes. Microsoft? yes
22:14:08  <nielsm> peter1138, this situation: https://0x0.st/z-Xj.png - if a town builds a house at the tile of the end of the depot, the test in your proposal will say there is a valid path past when there isn't
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22:15:14  <nielsm> to which my response is: stop trying to prevent intentional or accidental griefing, you can't
22:15:59  <Samu> or do a better check
22:16:05  <Samu> kekeke
22:16:15  *** drac_boy has joined #openttd
22:16:19  <drac_boy> hi there
22:16:19  <nielsm> Samu: no check is perfect and the landscape can be modified
22:16:25  <nielsm> YOU
22:16:26  <nielsm> CAN
22:16:27  <nielsm> NOT
22:16:28  <nielsm> PREVENT
22:16:30  <nielsm> GRIEFING
22:16:39  <TrueBrain> topic of the day :)
22:16:40  * drac_boy wonders what I stepped into now 0_o
22:16:43  <andythenorth> we have very little history of accepting anti-griefing PRs
22:17:15  <peter1138> Well...
22:17:53  <Samu> my checks would detect that the opposite tiles weren't connected and then deny building a house there
22:17:54  <peter1138> Either way, the fact that Samu's original patch tests the 90 degree setting is of course wrong.
22:18:14  <glx> hmm opened CMakeList.txt in VS, clicked build all, and it fails hard
22:18:57  <nielsm> I still think it's silly to try to prevent towns from expanding into half-water tiles on the chance someone might potentially at some point in the past or future want to sail ships nearby
22:18:58  <TrueBrain> glx: check vcpkg installation guide :)
22:19:02  <TrueBrain> hmm, that should not fail
22:19:07  <TrueBrain> it should just not compile PNG and Zlib
22:19:09  <glx> grr why did it tried to use the old mingw headers ???
22:19:31  <peter1138> nielsm, I actually think it's nice just to keep rivers open.
22:19:35  <TrueBrain> either way, I couldn't find a way to have vcpkg work globally for cmake glx :(
22:19:40  <peter1138> I don't particularly care about the ship aspect :-)
22:19:42  <andythenorth> nielsm: it was incredibly irritating when the game did it to me....like once :P
22:19:57  <TrueBrain> hmm .. fluidsynth packages don't have a cmake file .. wwuuttthhh?
22:20:06  <TrueBrain> fluidsynth is a cmake project .. and has a cmake file in their github ..
22:20:21  <andythenorth> I should really learn python
22:20:26  <andythenorth> or go to bed earlier yesterday
22:20:30  <andythenorth> can I still do that?
22:20:43  <peter1138> No.
22:20:49  <peter1138> You are committed to staying up all night.
22:21:00  <drac_boy> do depot-view sprites have to be of same length as on-map sprites or did I think wrong there?
22:21:10  <andythenorth> I watched the Dr. Dre thing
22:21:11  <drac_boy> peter heh you calling him an owl now? :P
22:21:14  <peter1138> nielsm, hmm, and in that case my test is valid :)
22:21:16  <andythenorth> Dre stays up all night
22:21:47  <peter1138> The river is still intact, even if ships can't traverse it due to the stupid depot location.
22:22:00  <nielsm> peter1138 yeah I agree
22:22:14  <nielsm> if a player object is in the way, that sure is a shame
22:22:22  <nielsm> the player could have not built it there
22:22:38  <nielsm> maybe the game administrator should kick the player for griefing
22:22:50  <peter1138> River griefing :D
22:22:51  *** Faizan has joined #openttd
22:22:54  <peter1138> 'river'
22:22:57  <Faizan> https://www.openttd.org/en/
22:22:59  <nielsm> or the singleplayer human should berate the AI author for writing bad AIs
22:23:06  <andythenorth> river grief, mountain high
22:23:22  <andythenorth> did Eddi|zuHause fix rivers yet? :P
22:23:25  <andythenorth> for 1.9.0?
22:23:39  <peter1138> nielsm, hah, one of samu's ship ai savegames does indeed have plenty of examples of AIs blocking THEIR OWN DOCKS with depots...
22:23:42  <peter1138> o_O
22:23:42  <Eddi|zuHause> not really
22:23:53  <Eddi|zuHause> and certainly not ready for 1.9
22:24:05  <nielsm> peter1138 yeah, he tried making a PR that prevents you from building depots and docks in stupid places
22:24:43  <Faizan> https://i.imgur.com/jUlVPoH.png
22:25:11  <drac_boy> nielsm I know its something the author can't do anything about but I always find it funny when a game recreates an enclosed inlet (complete 1-tile barrier separation from actual open waters) and then the industry grf decides for some reason to put the dockside industry right inside that little hole :)
22:25:33  <glx> hmm ok renamed the old mingw dir so it's not in the path, and I still get errors 'D:/MinGW/lib/libpng.lib', needed by 'openttd.exe', missing and no known rule to make it    C:\Program Files (x86)\Microsoft Visual Studio17\Community\Common7\IDE\CMakeLists.txt    C:\Program Files (x86)\Microsoft Visual Studio17\Community\Common7\IDE\ninja    1
22:25:40  <glx> that's silly
22:25:43  <Faizan> https://imgur.com/gallery/vdnRC Don't miss it/////
22:26:04  <peter1138> nielsm, maybe I should PR this as "attempt to prevent town from closing off rivers, but don't give a shit about what stupid players do"
22:26:22  <TrueBrain> glx: did you add vcpkg in the CMakeSetting.json?
22:26:25  <TrueBrain> that solved a lot of things for me
22:26:26  <nielsm> peter1138: https://github.com/OpenTTD/OpenTTD/pull/6935
22:27:19  <andythenorth> oof
22:27:23  <andythenorth> I have a FIRS industry in game
22:27:29  <andythenorth> producing more than 2 cargos :D
22:27:31  <andythenorth> nielsm: ^ :P
22:27:35  <nielsm> grats
22:27:44  <andythenorth> just needed to read the docs :P
22:27:52  <nielsm> I hope you like the new syntax :)
22:27:58  <andythenorth> it's fine, makes sense
22:28:05  <andythenorth> I have to figure out how to adapt FIRS to it
22:28:38  <andythenorth> I don't know what value to use in 'produce_cargo("COAL", 0.5)' etc when prod. cb handles production
22:28:46  <Faizan> i want to play multiplayer with you
22:28:49  <nielsm> just use 0
22:29:05  <peter1138> nielsm, yes.... AIs need to check themselves if it's going to block o_O
22:29:15  <andythenorth> thx
22:29:45  <Samu> oh, that old PRs
22:29:51  <Faizan> tell me name of your server please
22:30:29  <TrueBrain> Faizan: you might be better off joining the Discord of https://www.reddit.com/r/openttd/
22:30:32  <Samu> i wanted to keep the industry check though
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22:31:54  <Samu> (and revert all the other player made checks)
22:32:00  <Samu> but I was denied
22:34:43  <glx> ah it does things now I added CMAKE_TOOLCHAIN_FILE
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22:34:50  <TrueBrain> glx: good :)
22:35:03  <TrueBrain> glx: I hope they fix that some day .. as that needs a README to do right :)
22:35:12  <glx> but still fails :)
22:35:27  <TrueBrain> or we have to include that cmake file .. that is not the worst idea .. just annoying
22:35:39  <TrueBrain> glx: update to my latest version, if it fails on dmusic and/or win32 :)
22:36:03  <glx> fails on these one indeed :)
22:36:23  <peter1138> Ok, so ... my bitmap_type.hpp ... should I leave it in src/core/ or move it to src/
22:36:30  <peter1138> Not seeming like a core thing :p
22:36:43  <peter1138> tilearea isn't in core...
22:36:49  <Faizan> https://i.redd.it/k888wcziaei21.jpg
22:37:01  <TrueBrain> what are the odds I do 'rm -rf *' in the wrong folder soon?
22:37:31  <DorpsGek_II> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] TrueBrain updated pull request #7270: Introduce CMake (and removing all other project-related code) https://git.io/fhbqc
22:37:32  <TrueBrain> peter1138: now with fluidsynth support ^^
22:37:34  <andythenorth> 7
22:37:57  <drac_boy> hmm nevermind I'll just try find the sprites length thing tomorrow .. lets see about more wagons instead
22:38:55  <LordAro> TrueBrain: cd ..; rm -r build; mkdir build; cd build
22:38:56  <LordAro> :p
22:39:02  <TrueBrain> LordAro: that would be wiser
22:39:05  <TrueBrain> ......
22:39:05  <TrueBrain> :D
22:39:41  <glx> oh and "cmake --build" should have work instead of "make"
22:40:11  <glx> (but not tested)
22:40:32  <DorpsGek_II> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] planetmaker opened pull request #7271: Cleanup: Ships can always make 90° turns (it's even realistic) https://git.io/fhbmz
22:40:46  <TrueBrain> DENIED; OpenTTD is not realistic
22:40:50  <TrueBrain> :P
22:40:52  <planetmaker> :)
22:41:03  <planetmaker> TrueBelugas, you!
22:41:08  <TrueBrain> :P
22:41:18  <TrueBrain> why is compiling SSE failing, I wonder ..
22:41:33  <drac_boy> :) truebrain .. realistic != game fun
22:42:01  <Samu> gege
22:42:05  <planetmaker> heading to bed though. Will be back tomorrow night. gn!
22:42:12  <TrueBrain> sleep well
22:42:41  <peter1138> planetmaker, ANOTHER pr for that? lol
22:42:55  <peter1138> https://github.com/OpenTTD/OpenTTD/pull/7232
22:43:14  <LordAro> clearly an in demand feature
22:44:28  <andythenorth> drac_boy are you listing trains from any specific country?
22:47:01  <glx> now package detection fails
22:47:07  <drac_boy> its more generic so for example a diesel with long high hood and on the other/shorter side of cab a small stub end .. could basically be a lot of things, NSW GP9 PKP etc
22:47:14  <andythenorth> yes
22:47:15  <DorpsGek_II> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] PeterN updated pull request #7235: Change: Non-rectangular sparse station catchment area https://git.io/fh5s1
22:47:27  <TrueBrain> so we check SSE support by including some headers and see if that compiles ..
22:47:31  <TrueBrain> I expected more code there
22:47:36  <andythenorth> drac_boy: https://i.ebayimg.com/images/i/362002834871-0-1/s-l1000.jpg
22:47:53  <andythenorth> http://oxfordrail.com/76/picture_library/OR76TOA002.jpg
22:48:35  <glx> Gravité    Code    Description    Projet    Fichier    Ligne    État de la suppression
22:48:35  <glx> Erreur        CMake Error at C:/Program Files (x86)/Microsoft Visual Studio/2017/Community/Common7/IDE/CommonExtensions/Microsoft/CMake/CMake/share/cmake-3.12/Modules/FindPkgConfig.cmake:659 (message):
22:48:36  <glx>   None of the required 'fluidsynth' found        C:/Program Files (x86)/Microsoft Visual Studio/2017/Community/Common7/IDE/CommonExtensions/Microsoft/CMake/CMake/share/cmake-3.12/Modules/FindPkgConfig.cmake    659
22:48:40  <glx> oups :)
22:49:38  <TrueBrain> ooops
22:49:39  <TrueBrain> REQUIRED
22:49:45  <TrueBrain> you can remove that safely, line 56
22:50:15  <peter1138> What's the view on FOR_ALL_SOMETHING(x) dosomethingwith(x); ?
22:50:38  <glx> ok no zlib, no png, and no version
22:50:42  <peter1138> Should I add { }, or even put the innards on their own line?
22:50:53  <TrueBrain> glx: first two you can fix with vcpkg :)
22:51:09  <glx> I did the vcpkg thing
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22:51:16  <glx> maybe I failed
22:51:19  <TrueBrain> check if you have the right OS etc
22:51:22  <supermop_Home> hello
22:51:23  <TrueBrain> debug vs release
22:51:24  <TrueBrain> that stuff
22:52:18  <glx> oh the tripelt
22:52:22  <glx> *triplet
22:53:33  <drac_boy> andy hmm that lms photo is interesting thanks
22:53:45  <andythenorth> you want other 3 axle trains?
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22:54:52  <andythenorth> drac_boy: https://2.bp.blogspot.com/-9k42XuCn1y8/VWtMyA6EvQI/AAAAAAAABak/xRnSSk5-0Tw/s1600/7mm_GWR%2BTadpole_20150224%2B004.jpg
22:55:07  <andythenorth> and one with a guards van https://thumbs.worthpoint.com/zoom/images2/360/1213/01/gwr-tadpole-guards-wagon_360_894fcd76d3ed2d391c58c47c2037067c.jpg
22:56:23  <andythenorth> nielsm: in this 'accept_cargo("IORE", produce_cargo("STEL", 4))', 4 units of STEL from 1 unit IORE?
22:56:57  <andythenorth> whereas here 'produce_cargo("LVST", 8)', 8 units produced each time cargo production loop runs?
22:58:09  <drac_boy> heh I guess I could get away with adding a 3-axle of most freight types and noone'll be any wiser .. thanks for the thoughts :)
22:59:50  <nielsm> andythenorth yes
23:00:10  <andythenorth> ok :)
23:00:29  <Samu> retesting
23:00:37  <andythenorth> I'll need to be refactoring FIRS :D https://github.com/andythenorth/firs/blob/master/src/industries/blast_furnace.py#L4
23:00:57  <andythenorth> that (pre-existing) format has neither of those meanings
23:01:39  <glx> hmm added triplet, still not found
23:02:10  <TrueBrain> glx: hmmm
23:02:19  <TrueBrain> works for me, so that is annoying ..
23:02:26  <TrueBrain> but I only tried x86-release
23:02:30  <TrueBrain> nothing else yet
23:02:40  <TrueBrain> let me wrap up my code changes, and see if it all still works
23:02:48  <TrueBrain> SSE support is acting up
23:02:53  <glx> I'm trying x64-debug
23:03:02  <nielsm> andythenorth yeah the new nml property format combines three GRF properties
23:03:13  <andythenorth> yup
23:05:34  <TrueBrain> really no idea why SSE is failing
23:05:35  <TrueBrain> meh
23:08:10  <TrueBrain> glx: zlib:x64-windows and libpng:x64-windows
23:08:31  <glx> I have only static version I think
23:08:39  <TrueBrain> ah :)
23:08:48  <TrueBrain> that is a good point, these atm are non-static builds
23:08:52  <TrueBrain> that might be an issue :)
23:09:26  <glx> but using x64-windows-static triplet should work (it did in previous vcxproj)
23:10:13  <TrueBrain> because that builds static binaries :)
23:11:26  <drac_boy> hmm anyone know if it was called 'tarped open wagon' or by a different term for these that otherwise had a tent-shaped tarp covering the freight load?
23:11:57  <andythenorth> it will vary from place to place
23:12:04  <andythenorth> call it whatever makes most sense
23:12:19  <drac_boy> figured .. anyway .. just looking for photos .. so I guess tarped will do :)
23:13:03  <TrueBrain> glx: hmm .. the moment I am reminded that vcpkg is not that good in this static stuff :P
23:13:12  <TrueBrain> the default triplet always points to the non-static
23:13:33  <glx> https://github.com/OpenTTD/OpenTTD/blob/87ebfe1227ecc811a18d9b9c791e3e21da3f5eb2/projects/openttd_vs140.vcxproj#L25-L26
23:13:38  <glx> that worked :)
23:14:32  <glx> but doing the same in CMakeSettings.json doesn't
23:16:11  <DorpsGek_II> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] stale[bot] closed pull request #6986: Allow the center tile to always get a house when playing with 3x3/Better https://git.io/fpyyt
23:19:31  <TrueBrain> how do I check with mingw32 what the dynamic dlls are?
23:19:34  <TrueBrain> ldd, but for windows
23:19:57  <LordAro> TrueBrain: depends.exe
23:20:05  <glx> yep depends.exe
23:20:26  <peter1138> That looks like a sarcastic response :)
23:20:31  <TrueBrain> depends not found :(
23:20:50  <glx> it's an old thing somewhere in the internet
23:20:59  <TrueBrain> and via mingw32?
23:21:16  <TrueBrain> zlibd1.dll string in the file
23:21:20  <TrueBrain> guess it is dynamic :)
23:22:04  <glx> http://www.dependencywalker.com/
23:22:22  <Samu> nop, peter1138 your checks are still incomplete :(
23:22:29  <Samu> ship depots:/
23:23:13  <Samu> https://imgur.com/KKbwOqp
23:23:19  <peter1138> That was discussed about an hour ago...
23:23:57  <Samu> oh, i missed it
23:23:59  <peter1138> IMHO, it's the depot blocking the river, not the town.
23:24:11  <Samu> there was passage
23:24:16  <Samu> depot was there first
23:24:49  <nielsm> player was an idiot for building the depot there
23:24:59  <peter1138> ^^
23:25:06  <Samu> :/
23:25:20  <Samu> that mindset :|
23:25:54  <nielsm> https://0x0.st/z-8q.png
23:26:38  <Samu> it's the town who's griefing, that can be controlled by the code
23:26:45  <TrueBrain> glx: add VCPKG_TARGET_TRIPLET to the variables
23:26:48  <TrueBrain> like the CMAKE_TOOLCHAIN_FILE
23:26:58  <peter1138> I prefer the test as it is.
23:27:00  <glx> I did, but maybe I did it wrong
23:27:19  <_dp_> nielsm, lol
23:27:23  <peter1138> It means the town's expansion isn't affected by players.
23:27:27  <_dp_> can make it harder tho
23:27:36  <_dp_> not that I care about stupid ships :p
23:27:47  <drac_boy> I'm sure this isn't quite new to everyone but geeze https://c1.staticflickr.com/1/405/31572120913_e31686736a_b.jpg thats WAY too much horsepower for one lousy single freight wagon! :P
23:27:51  <peter1138> (Well, obviously players can terraform...)
23:28:01  <drac_boy> I see at least 5000hp minimum ;)
23:28:02  <TrueBrain> glx: with that set, it picks up zlib and png here
23:29:02  <Samu> nielsm doesn't play ships
23:29:03  <TrueBrain> glx: it might be that a local change of mine does something with it .. let me push my changes in a bit
23:30:18  <DorpsGek_II> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] TrueBrain updated pull request #7270: Introduce CMake (and removing all other project-related code) https://git.io/fhbqc
23:30:32  <Samu> how do you want to promote canal building
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23:31:05  <andythenorth> I think
23:31:13  <andythenorth> I have to leave this conversation :P
23:31:21  <peter1138> No.
23:31:27  <Flygon> I think I have just joined.
23:32:00  <andythenorth> guess how I currently split output cargo at industries? :P
23:32:07  <andythenorth> actually don't, it's boring :P
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23:32:11  <LordAro> Flygon: i am unconvinced
23:32:28  <DorpsGek_II> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] TrueBrain updated pull request #7270: Introduce CMake (and removing all other project-related code) https://git.io/fhbqc
23:32:33  <TrueBrain> glx: try this version? :)
23:32:44  <Flygon> LordAro: So am I.
23:32:50  <TrueBrain> SSE for MSVC works; now for Linux .. why does it fail ..
23:32:50  <drac_boy> flygon you indeed missed a lot :)
23:33:18  <Flygon> You still refuse to seek the rooms that suit your demographic. :P
23:33:46  <andythenorth> bed
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23:34:14  <TrueBrain> smmintrin.h:67:1: error: inlining failed in call to always_inline ‘int _mm_testz_si128(__m128i, __m128i)’: target specific option mismatch
23:34:19  <TrueBrain> any suggestions what is going on there?
23:34:42  <glx> and of course I need to redo the variables stuff
23:35:01  <TrueBrain> glx: that is a local file; you can keep that if you like :)
23:35:32  <glx> yeah I could stash before pull
23:35:40  <TrueBrain> no, it is a local file :)
23:35:42  <TrueBrain> it is not tracked
23:35:48  <TrueBrain> (CMakeSettings.json)
23:36:55  <glx> D:\developpement\GitHub\glx22\OpenTTD\build [pr/7270 +2 ~0 -0 !]> <-- just after opening the txt in visual studio
23:37:20  <Samu> it defeats the purpose of the patch if it's doing incomplete checks :|
23:37:25  <TrueBrain> glx: so stop adding those files to git? :P
23:37:29  <glx> 6 changes shown in github desktop
23:37:33  <TrueBrain> no clue who does that for you, but it sounds bad :D
23:37:50  <TrueBrain> new files != changes :)
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23:38:07  <TrueBrain> you get a .vs folder and a CMakeSettings.json file
23:38:08  <TrueBrain> those are new
23:38:13  <TrueBrain> no need to add them to git :)
23:38:19  <TrueBrain> (you can even add them to your global git ignore)
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23:38:27  <glx> I don't add them
23:38:27  <TrueBrain> possibly we want to add them to the local git ignore
23:38:29  <TrueBrain> don't know yet
23:38:43  <TrueBrain> so there is no issue :)
23:38:47  <TrueBrain> no need to stash new files :D
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23:38:54  <TrueBrain> git ignores them without issues :P
23:39:25  <TrueBrain> hmm, seems I need to add -msse4.1
23:39:29  <TrueBrain> but why is that not needed in config.lib?
23:40:11  <TrueBrain> because those are exception rules in Makefile.src.in
23:40:14  <TrueBrain> okay, I did NOT expect that
23:40:18  <LordAro> ha
23:40:24  <TrueBrain> who wrote that :(
23:40:33  <TrueBrain> different compiler flags depending on the postfix .. :D
23:40:52  <peter1138> :)
23:41:06  <glx> still no zlib nor png
23:41:30  <drac_boy> sorry to kinda post random photos but https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/0/09/MONTMORENCY_Le_Train.JPG/640px-MONTMORENCY_Le_Train.JPG kinda interesting mixing side-loading for lower level and corridor-loading for upper level .. but I guess thats history for you
23:41:46  <LordAro> TrueBrain: git blame indicates a single commit in early 2014 :p
23:42:45  <TrueBrain> glx: can you show me your CMakeSettings.json and 'vcpkg list' ?
23:44:36  <glx> https://paste.openttdcoop.org/pvtw9ecev
23:45:21  <glx> I see nothing wrong there
23:45:23  <TrueBrain> "However, Xcode does not support per-config per-source settings, so expressions that depend on the build configuration are not allowed with that generator." how bad is this ..
23:46:01  <TrueBrain> glx: clear the cmake cache and try again?
23:46:10  <TrueBrain> as indeed that is what I have too
23:48:16  <glx> ah better, only no version left
23:48:21  <TrueBrain> indeed
23:48:56  <glx> but it's not as straight forward as standart solution stuff :)
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23:53:31  <TrueBrain> glx: we can fix most of it
23:54:05  <glx> oh but now settingsgen (and others) are built in 64bit mode
23:54:14  <TrueBrain> among other improvements :P
23:54:25  <glx> tools used to be 32bit, so new warnings ;)
23:54:31  <TrueBrain> okay, sse2 and sse4 work .. now sse3 breaks ..
23:54:37  <TrueBrain> glx: yeah .. that always annoyed me ...
23:55:27  <TrueBrain> owh, it is ssse3
23:55:30  <TrueBrain> ugh
23:56:16  <Eddi|zuHause> why is it then not sssse4? that would be a pattern :p
23:56:24  <TrueBrain> I agree
23:57:19  <glx> hmm debug run is not started from the right place
23:57:24  <DorpsGek_II> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] TrueBrain updated pull request #7270: Introduce CMake (and removing all other project-related code) https://git.io/fhbqc
23:57:24  <glx> empty intro game
23:57:29  <TrueBrain> glx: VS2019 does for me
23:57:32  <TrueBrain> VS2017 doesn't
23:57:37  <TrueBrain> they are not fixing VS2017 :(
23:58:22  <Samu> https://imgur.com/K0tK2ns TrackToTrackdir doesn't have a good pattern :(
23:58:55  <Samu> dir_1 and dir_2 can u spot any pattern ?
23:59:02  * drac_boy thinks whether to have short 2-truck wagon right next to long 2-axle wagon if cargo capacity is going to be alike
23:59:04  <drac_boy> hmm