Log for #openttd on 9th March 2019:
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00:02:12  <peter1138> I guess andy didn't want to fix his PR :(
00:04:37  * nnyby drinks a brooklyn lager
00:05:36  <DorpsGek_II> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] nielsmh approved pull request #7306: Add: Chrono based TIC() and TOC() in debug
00:05:50  <DorpsGek_II> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] nielsmh merged pull request #7306: Add: Chrono based TIC() and TOC() in debug
00:06:03  * nielsm sips a bit of limoncello
00:06:09  <Samu> best station was receiving 6 coal periodically, maintaining the same ratio
00:06:17  <Samu> erm, rating*
00:06:20  <Samu> 67%
00:06:29  <peter1138> const char _openttd_revision[] = "r2234M";
00:06:34  <peter1138> Hmm, that's a fairly old version
00:06:51  <Samu> the other station had a low rating of 30% percent, was receiving 1 coal periodically, but it started raising
00:07:11  <Samu> over time the best station started to receive less
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00:07:15  <Samu> 5 coal
00:07:24  <Samu> as the other increases rating
00:07:30  <Samu> is this intended?
00:08:30  <Samu> I suppose it is, I'm a bit rusty in maths
00:09:33  <nielsm> Samu: That was difficult to understand what you mean
00:09:37  <Samu> the way I had it, if I recall, the rating of the nearby stations would not impact the amount delivered to the best station
00:09:47  <Samu> until it was surpassed
00:10:45  <Samu> best station: 67% rating, 6 coal per period
00:10:59  <Samu> other station: 30% rating, 1 coal per period
00:11:16  <Samu> other station puts a vehicle full loading, rating increases slowly
00:11:29  <Samu> best station maintains a stable 67% rating
00:11:54  <Samu> however, 6 coal is reduced to 5 coal at some point, when rating of the 2nd station gets to... i dunno 50%
00:15:08  <Eddi|zuHause> peter1138: nah, still same century :p
00:15:35  <nielsm> it's difficult to hit the right distribution ratio when the number of discrete items to distribute is low, as it typically is with any cargo production
00:16:45  <nielsm> you can try to smooth other the difference by keeping some kind of counter for how much was distributed to each recipient, but when the parameters controlling the distribution change all the time you need to also limit how far back the counter goes
00:17:11  <nielsm> and it becomes a really difficult puzzle to make it look any kind of fair
00:17:51  <nielsm> that may also be part of the reason the original algorithm only considers at most two stations: to avoid too much unfairness by rounding of very few items of cargo
00:18:15  <Samu> the amounts are multiplied by 255
00:18:29  <Samu> fractored into a byte
00:18:59  <Samu> fractured*
00:19:26  <nielsm> you still can't distribute two-thirds of a unit of goods to a station
00:20:00  <Samu> there is a remainder
00:20:22  <Samu> it's... amount_fract
00:20:33  <Samu> Fractional part of the amount in the cargo list
00:22:17  <DorpsGek_II> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] michicc commented on pull request #7245: Remove: OPF
00:24:31  <DorpsGek_II> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] PeterN commented on pull request #7245: Remove: OPF
00:25:46  <peter1138> ./oldhome/petern/.openttd-old/data/metro/sprites/metro.nfo
00:25:54  <peter1138> That looks like a likely railtype grf :D
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00:30:18  <Eddi|zuHause> lots of "old"
00:30:51  <Eddi|zuHause> beware of
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00:35:31  <Samu> gonna investigate what it was like before
00:41:19  <Samu> oh, I was wrong
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00:42:22  <Samu> 5 (70%), 6 (83%)
00:42:32  <Samu> 2 (18%), 9 (83%)
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00:45:20  <Samu> with nielsm: 4 (70%), 7 (83%)
00:46:11  <Samu> with nielsm: 1 (18%), 10 (83%)
00:46:21  <Samu> averages
00:49:55  <Samu> why was I wrong?
00:50:40  <Samu> I used to be good at math, why am I so tragic now
00:54:00  <Samu> coal mine produced 12 coal
00:54:05  <Beerbelott> Are PR good for tiny changes? Or is it better to keep a commit in one's own GitHub fork and ask you to take it from there as part of bigger modifications sets?
00:54:21  <peter1138> PR is the only way.
00:54:35  <Beerbelott> Yup, but PR for single liners feels wrong somehow
00:54:39  <peter1138> Even the original core developers have to use PRs.
00:54:42  <Beerbelott> Wilco then
00:54:44  <peter1138> It's not wrong.
00:54:53  <Beerbelott> noted
00:55:05  <Samu> @calc 12 * (210 + 1)
00:55:05  <DorpsGek> Samu: 2532
00:55:29  <Samu> @calc 2532 / 255
00:55:29  <DorpsGek> Samu: 9.92941176471
00:55:58  <Samu> erm nop
00:56:15  <Samu> @calc 12 * (255 + 1)
00:56:15  <DorpsGek> Samu: 3072
00:56:37  <Samu> @calc 2532 / (255 + 1)
00:56:37  <DorpsGek> Samu: 9.890625
00:57:41  <Samu> whatever, so there is 2532 fractional coal amount to distribute between stations
00:58:46  <Samu> worst station got 18% rating or 48
01:00:06  <peter1138> Urgh, this devzone stuff doesn't build :s
01:00:42  <Samu> @calc 2532 * 48 * 48 / (48 * 48 + 210 * 210)
01:00:42  <DorpsGek> Samu: 125.71605896
01:01:39  <Samu> @calc 2532 - 125.71605896
01:01:39  <DorpsGek> Samu: 2406.283941
01:04:38  <Samu> @calc 2532 * 48 / (48 + 210)
01:04:38  <DorpsGek> Samu: 471.069767442
01:04:59  <Samu> @calc 2532 - 471.069767442
01:04:59  <DorpsGek> Samu: 2060.930233
01:13:27  <Samu> hmm I don't know if I like nielsm suggestion after all
01:13:44  <Samu> it's also changing the default behaviour for 2 stations
01:25:00  <Samu> in short, nielsm's approach actually benefits more the best rating station than my approach, than in the one in master
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01:26:19  <Samu> my approach does the same as master for 2 stations
01:27:04  <Samu> but the more stations there are, the less the best rating station gets
01:27:30  <Samu> less that nielsm's that is
01:27:56  <Samu> I don't know, I'm undecided
01:29:02  <Samu> less than*
01:33:32  <DorpsGek_II> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] SamuXarick updated pull request #7184: Feature: Distribute cargo to multiple stations or industries
01:35:31  <DorpsGek_II> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] SamuXarick commented on pull request #7184: Feature: Distribute cargo to multiple stations or industries
01:36:20  <Samu> ow... conflicts
01:41:44  <DorpsGek_II> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] Berbe opened pull request #7348: Fix: BaseMedia<Tbase_set>::AddFile searches for fullpaths instead of files
02:04:01  <DorpsGek_II> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] SamuXarick updated pull request #7184: Feature: Distribute cargo to multiple stations or industries
02:04:13  <Samu> DeliverGoodsToIndustry is changed all the time
02:11:32  <peter1138> Urgh, I need to modify nmlc to make this test work :(
02:17:29  <Samu> i need more tests
02:17:36  <Samu> i have 3 test cases
02:17:43  <Samu> wonder if i can open visual studio 3 times
02:18:08  <Eddi|zuHause> which part?
02:18:35  <peter1138> /bin/sh: 1: Syntax error: "(" unexpected
02:18:40  <peter1138> Hmm, I wonder where that is :p
02:19:07  <Eddi|zuHause> at 1: obviously :p
02:19:30  <Samu> stupid visual studio
02:19:39  <Samu> i changed branch in one, and the other followed
02:20:08  <glx> I like the CMake style, ")" expected at <last line of the file>
02:20:19  <Samu> I want to work with different branches at the same time
02:21:14  <glx> it's not visual studio's fault
02:21:40  <peter1138> `which unix2dos 2>/dev/null`
02:21:43  <peter1138> fails on my system
02:21:50  <peter1138> cos unix2dos outputs to stdout, not stderr.
02:21:52  <glx> you need to commit or stash before switching branches
02:22:23  <Samu> no, it's not that
02:22:28  <Eddi|zuHause> you can have two working copies...
02:22:34  <Samu> I want to run 3 different builds at the same time
02:22:44  <peter1138> You need 3 copies of the repo.
02:22:46  <Samu> master, my branch, and my other branch
02:23:10  <Samu> oh really? :(
02:23:25  <peter1138> Obviously. You can only be on one branch at a time.
02:23:54  <Samu> that kinda sucks
02:24:05  <Samu> duplicates of duplicates
02:24:08  <glx> it was the same with svn
02:24:58  <Samu> wow 6,20 GB?
02:25:04  <Samu> lol, i better clone from web
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02:27:19  <glx> peter1138: I made a PR for one of your branches
02:28:43  <Samu> I just cloned my clone, cool stuff
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02:37:11  <Samu> I finally have a reason to get a better cpu
02:37:26  <Samu> building 3 openttds at the same time
02:44:20  <peter1138> Shit, I got X & Y wrong :(
02:51:03  <Eddi|zuHause> there's no XX and XY, it's all just social construct.
02:53:46  <DorpsGek_II> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] PeterN merged pull request #7231: Add: Add flag and railtype sprite type to draw pre-combined ground sprites.
02:55:48  <peter1138> glx, yup, I saw, thanks.
02:56:19  <DorpsGek_II> [OpenTTD/nml] PeterN opened pull request #22: Add: New railtype flags and precombined spriteset type.
02:59:59  <Samu> 2 stations only
03:02:13  <Samu> and thus is confirmed, mine mimics master when there's only 2 stations
03:04:51  <Samu> now i need to test more stations
03:04:53  <Samu> 3
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03:25:33  <Samu> 3 stations:
03:29:24  <Samu> too confusing to follow
03:36:50  <Samu> Samu:    642 (47%) /  991 (72%) / 1136 (83%)
03:36:50  <Samu> nielsm:  426 (47%) / 1012 (72%) / 1331 (83%)
03:36:50  <Samu> Master:    0 (47%) / 1290 (72%) / 1479 (83%)
03:37:26  <Samu> resumed ^^
03:38:51  <Samu> those values are the fractional amounts
03:39:15  <Samu> aka multiplied by 256
03:39:49  <Samu> which approach is better?
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07:02:12  <andythenorth> moin
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07:06:18  <andythenorth> why do some people need sudo to install nml deps?
07:06:24  <andythenorth> that seems all kinds of wrong
07:08:24  <Alberth> o/
07:09:03  <Alberth> people think in system-wide installs, not being aware that user-install exist as well
07:09:15  <DorpsGek_II> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] andythenorth commented on pull request #7231: Add: Add flag and railtype sprite type to draw pre-combined ground sprites.
07:09:36  <Alberth> Usually, I add ply to the code that uses it, I wonder why I didn't do that here
07:09:54  <andythenorth> I have a long-standing suspicion of sudo
07:10:06  <andythenorth> and it should never ever be needed for python deps
07:10:42  <andythenorth> also hi :)
07:11:12  <Alberth> I do have a system-wide python install, but that's managed by the package manager
07:11:32  <Alberth> there is probably also a ply as package that they can use
07:11:55  <andythenorth> should just be pip install
07:12:05  <andythenorth> preferably to a virtualenv
07:12:33  <Alberth> that would be a user-install then, which causes havoc if you install nml at system level
07:12:39  <andythenorth> I haven't looked at the nml instructions for ages
07:12:45  <Alberth> although for a single user... :p
07:13:05  <Alberth> your post made me consider writing nml2 :p
07:13:28  <andythenorth> I really think nml needs to die
07:13:40  <Alberth> ok, what then?
07:14:48  <andythenorth> I seriously considered switching to m4nfo
07:15:05  <andythenorth> but I'd end up falling out with Michael
07:15:06  <Alberth> yeah, m4 is a nightmare though
07:15:36  <andythenorth> the m4nfo syntax looks a lot more compact and easy to read
07:15:44  <Alberth> not sure how magic that code is, but we could try re-implementing it in py-xpd
07:15:49  <andythenorth> nml is very labour intensive to write and read
07:16:21  <Alberth>
07:16:25  <andythenorth> one of the advantages of m4nfo is
07:16:27  <andythenorth> "so there's no need for any external tools, like CPP for macro usage or artificially crafted extra Python layers, resulting in bloated installations"
07:16:47  <Alberth> instead we have a m4 layer
07:18:43  <andythenorth> interestingly m4nfo has a linker
07:18:45  <Alberth> writing m4 is complicated
07:19:00  <Alberth> :o could be nice :)
07:19:11  <andythenorth> I tried writing a linker with nml
07:19:20  <andythenorth> but it's just not engineered with that in mind
07:19:25  <Alberth> it generates nfo?
07:19:35  <andythenorth> nml can output nfo
07:19:45  <andythenorth> so I wrote something that split that into fragments
07:19:51  <andythenorth> then tried to re-combine the fragments
07:19:54  <Alberth> I was asking about m4nfo, sorry
07:20:03  <andythenorth> m4nfo generates nfo yes
07:20:25  <andythenorth> I don't know how the linker works, I haven't used m4nfo
07:20:41  <Alberth> other option is to borrow the m4nfo interface, and re-implement it
07:22:36  <Alberth> while trying to understand stations, I started renaming the action numbers to a useful name
07:22:56  <andythenorth> stations would be one obvious vector to use for a rewrite
07:23:00  <andythenorth> because nml doesn't have them
07:23:35  <andythenorth> but an alternate vector would be something where the newgrf spec isn't *just weird* :P
07:23:43  <Alberth> the nice thing about nml is that you have expressions
07:23:46  <andythenorth> yes
07:24:02  <andythenorth> have you ever made anything run on pypy?
07:24:23  <andythenorth> I haven't tried co-ercing nml to use pypy, planetmake said he failed
07:24:23  <Alberth> no, not even sure what it is
07:24:35  <andythenorth>
07:24:58  <Alberth> I was also considering making a nicer nfo, dropping all the insanity
07:25:11  <andythenorth> nfo, or grf?
07:25:38  <andythenorth> I have no idea about the format of the actual compiled bytecode
07:25:45  <andythenorth> just wondering if that could be changed :P
07:25:58  <andythenorth> instead of adding more / different abstraction layers
07:26:22  <Alberth> I was thinking nfo, grf is mostly wrapping, as fas as I know
07:27:07  <Alberth> of course you can change it, we have source of everything :p
07:27:25  <Alberth> linking could also be a nice vector for a rewrite
07:27:31  <Alberth> as well as performance
07:28:10  <Alberth> :o  pypy is a jit thing
07:28:13  <andythenorth> yes
07:28:28  <Alberth> ever considered a java-python?
07:28:40  <andythenorth> I haven't tried it with nmlc, but we might switch to pypy at work, instead of migrating to python3
07:28:57  <andythenorth> the performance benefits are apparently now consistent and worthwhile
07:29:08  <Alberth> nice
07:29:14  <andythenorth> I think nmlc has a custom cpython extension by frosch though
07:29:22  <andythenorth> which might block nml pypy, not sure
07:29:28  <Alberth> yeah, image processing
07:29:32  <andythenorth> so I have a simple list of nml goals
07:29:34  <andythenorth> 1. speed
07:29:35  <andythenorth> 2. speed
07:29:37  <andythenorth> 3. speed
07:29:44  <andythenorth> 4. declutter the syntax
07:29:46  <Alberth> 4. linking :p
07:29:51  <andythenorth> 5. maintainability
07:30:14  <andythenorth> so compile times for Iron Horse, current head of the repo
07:30:22  <andythenorth> nmlc: real	1m3.393s
07:30:27  <Alberth> :o
07:30:30  <andythenorth> grfcodec: real	0m2.513s
07:31:03  <Alberth> yeah, nml is horribly inefficient, it rewrites expressions to themselves all the time, making zillions of copies of them
07:31:23  <andythenorth> I think it also scales somewhere in a non-linear way
07:31:36  <Alberth> didn't frosch try making a linker?
07:31:45  <andythenorth> this is the part where somebody says o(n) or log o(n) or something
07:31:49  <Alberth> or at least intended to
07:32:01  <andythenorth> from what I remember, the linker effort is severely impeded by string IDs
07:32:12  <Alberth> o(n) isn't bad, that's linear
07:32:32  <Alberth> ...
07:32:42  <andythenorth> iirc nmlc has a magic phase to automatically assign string IDs (action 4 IDs)
07:33:00  <andythenorth> so trying to do partial compiles doesn't work because the string IDs are unstable
07:33:04  <Alberth> yeah, makes sense, you have to do that
07:33:16  <andythenorth> so there needs to be a way to preserve consistent tokens for those strings
07:33:24  <Alberth> yep, it's information you have to export and fill in, in other parts
07:33:30  <andythenorth> otherwise my crude linker nearly worked
07:34:06  <Alberth> starting from the bottom could also work, invent a linkable format
07:34:18  <Alberth> not sure how to move from there though
07:34:38  <Alberth> you'd be stuck with nml not generating the right format
07:35:14  <andythenorth> this was pretty awful but eh
07:35:25  <Alberth> ie I see no major problem in the linking process itself, so that format will work as far as I can see
07:35:34  <andythenorth> that rev could probably still be used for experiments
07:35:46  <andythenorth> grfcodec seemed to have no problems linking at all
07:36:10  <Alberth> grfcodec just writes out what it gets
07:36:37  <Alberth> a glorified  text hex digits -> binary bytes conversion
07:37:41  <Alberth> if you mess up, it just won't do anything useful :p
07:38:02  <andythenorth> oof that Horse rev above might be python 2 :P
07:38:07  * andythenorth trying it
07:39:42  <Alberth> this might need a cunning plan first
07:40:17  <andythenorth> I removed the partial compile stuff in Horse a couple of years ago
07:40:37  <andythenorth> it's slow enough that I'm considering removing features
07:41:26  <Alberth> I am pretty busy today, i'll be back in the afternoon
07:41:43  <Alberth> better speed nml up then :p
07:41:46  <andythenorth> NP :)
07:42:34  <andythenorth> removing all the cargo sprites support from Horse drops the compile to 37s
07:43:29  <andythenorth> hmm my results are distorted, there's a graphics processing step that accounts for 13s of the nml times
07:43:50  <andythenorth> but still, the nmlc step is one order of magnitude slower than grfcodec
07:46:13  <Alberth> yes, I tried to sanitize the expressions in nml, but it so entangled, and you don't have compiler support for finding bad uses
07:47:12  <Alberth> nml is about 80-90% expression manipulation
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07:50:13  <andythenorth> hmm
07:50:46  <andythenorth> it would be somewhat interesting to pick that apart and find out what's fast and what's slow
07:51:20  <andythenorth> when it was designed, theree would be no real-world nml test grfs
07:51:29  <andythenorth> and nothing to really benchmark
07:52:29  <andythenorth> an nml2 should take care to make different mistakes :)
08:02:38  <nielsm> okay read the backlog a bit
08:03:21  <nielsm> as Alberth suggests, starting from a linkable format might be the smartest, something containing raw grf bytes except for some references that need to be assigned and fixed up by means of symbol names
08:03:34  <nielsm> (and some size fields need to have their final size calculated)
08:04:29  <nielsm> you get basically all the symbol resolution in that, including strings, callback sprite ids
08:05:00  <andythenorth> I think strings are non-trivial
08:05:11  <nielsm> and then write some more compilers on top of that to generate the intermediate linkable grf bytes
08:05:21  <andythenorth> m4nfo has to also work around string challenges
08:06:34  <andythenorth> it's probably just an extra table of symbold, or something :P
08:06:41  * andythenorth wavey hands about compiler design
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08:13:13  <Alberth> yeah, I do that stuff for a living :p
08:14:41  <DorpsGek_II> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] andythenorth updated pull request #7341: Change: Add windowshade to rail station construction window
08:14:55  <andythenorth> I do wavey hands for a living
08:15:42  <DorpsGek_II> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] andythenorth updated pull request #7341: Add: windowshade for rail station construction window
08:16:26  <andythenorth> hmm
08:16:38  <andythenorth> I can't teach my editor when to use tabs and when to use spaces
08:16:42  <andythenorth> that's annoying
08:17:15  <Alberth> kill it
08:18:31  <andythenorth> makes complying with tab-based projects hard
08:19:39  <Alberth> most editors are just total crap
08:19:51  <Alberth> ah well, I'm off now, see you
08:19:54  <andythenorth> bye :)
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08:22:18  <DorpsGek_II> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] andythenorth updated pull request #7341: Add: windowshade for rail station construction window
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09:13:42  <peter1138> Morning
09:13:47  <peter1138> I overslept :(
09:15:46  <DorpsGek_II> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] PeterN commented on pull request #7231: Add: Add flag and railtype sprite type to draw pre-combined ground sprites.
09:19:51  <peter1138> andythenorth, install the git hooks locally :-)
09:20:14  <peter1138> That'll avoid embarrassing yourself ;)
09:20:58  <peter1138> andythenorth, you've still got the unrelated file in there?
09:21:15  <peter1138> andythenorth, and didn't do the early return change.
09:27:19  <andythenorth> oof why is that .nut there
09:27:45  <andythenorth> clown shoes
09:27:54  <peter1138>
09:27:59  <peter1138> That's a lot of sprites
09:28:34  <peter1138> I wonder if NRT should have a similar option.
09:28:38  <andythenorth> how do I drop a file from the manifest during a rebase?
09:28:47  <andythenorth> I could just delete the commit and go again, it's only 1
09:28:52  <peter1138> Or actually I think roads normally do that.
09:28:57  <LordAro> moin
09:28:58  <peter1138> andythenorth, git rm
09:29:32  <andythenorth> do I actually want to delete bin/ai/regression/tst_regression/info.nut
09:30:04  <andythenorth> hmm I can figure it out in a bit, tanking right now
09:30:09  <peter1138> Well I don't have an info.nut there
09:31:02  <DorpsGek_II> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] andythenorth updated pull request #7341: Add: windowshade for rail station construction window
09:31:23  <andythenorth> ok just the return to fix now
09:52:22  <andythenorth> so how does one return in C++ :P
09:52:24  <peter1138> Hmm, need to make sure neutral industries still work.
09:52:30  * andythenorth had better copy something
09:52:31  <peter1138> andythenorth, "return"
09:52:55  <andythenorth> so if it's shaded, just return?
09:53:05  <andythenorth> rest is not wrapped in conditional?
09:53:58  <peter1138> Yup.
09:54:07  <peter1138> The rest basically becomes untouched from master.
09:59:06  <nielsm>
09:59:15  <nielsm> does anyone know why the reliability might be different?
09:59:25  <DorpsGek_II> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] LordAro approved pull request #7348: Fix: BaseMedia<Tbase_set>::AddFile searches for fullpaths instead of files
09:59:31  <nielsm> also power
10:00:27  <peter1138> Power is due to display units, it's actually the same internally.
10:00:58  <peter1138> And reliability is based on introduction date which is randomized.
10:01:03  <andythenorth> reliability is randomised
10:01:05  <andythenorth> oh that
10:03:09  <TrueBrain> I am scared .. andythenorth making code-PRs ... should we hide in the shelters? :D
10:03:12  <TrueBrain> hi andythenorth :)
10:03:40  <andythenorth> yo
10:04:18  <nielsm> TrueBrain: can you do something with this?
10:05:30  <nielsm> or should we just be committing directly to the branch instead of going through PRs?
10:06:21  <TrueBrain> hmm .. I wonder if we can see the tracking branch of a PR
10:09:26  <TrueBrain> "System.PullRequest.TargetBranch"
10:09:28  <TrueBrain> seems so
10:09:30  <DorpsGek_II> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] PeterN commented on pull request #7348: Fix: BaseMedia<Tbase_set>::AddFile searches for fullpaths instead of files
10:10:09  <DorpsGek_II> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] TrueBrain requested changes for pull request #7346: Fix: rebase to 1.9 branch for backport PRs
10:11:27  <DorpsGek_II> [OpenTTD/CompileFarm] TrueBrain commented on issue #29: Commit checker always expect origin/master, even for non master PRs
10:11:48  <LordAro> TrueBrain: wrong repo for ^, surely?
10:11:59  <TrueBrain> LordAro: ?
10:12:06  <TrueBrain> nielsm: nah, seems someone needed to google for 2 minutes and come up with a more solid game plan :D
10:12:37  <LordAro> TrueBrain: oh no, i thought that was part of githooks for some reason
10:12:38  <LordAro> carry on
10:15:30  <TrueBrain> so yeah, someone has to fix this up :) Seems mostly trivial
10:15:59  <TrueBrain> I would suggest also to do it for master, btw
10:16:38  <TrueBrain> nielsm: I do think the backport PRs are silly
10:16:45  <TrueBrain> especially the one by one
10:16:56  <TrueBrain> can't we make them just a single PR to backport a lot?
10:17:06  <LordAro> that's why i said :p
10:17:21  <TrueBrain> as they are already reviewed .. you only want to know if the CI finds any issues
10:18:36  <TrueBrain> #7346 needs fixing no matter what btw, as commits n the branch currently fail for the same reason :)
10:22:01  <DorpsGek_II> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] TrueBrain commented on pull request #7346: Fix: rebase to 1.9 branch for backport PRs
10:26:10  <TrueBrain> and just to set expectations .. I most likely won't have time to fix this anytime soon .. but it is also a "good first issue" so anyone can help out \o/
10:40:37  <DorpsGek_II> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] andythenorth updated pull request #7341: Add: windowshade for rail station construction window
10:41:59  <peter1138> andythenorth, no change?
10:43:50  <andythenorth> oops
10:43:55  <andythenorth> playing tanks and trying to commit
10:45:04  <DorpsGek_II> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] andythenorth updated pull request #7341: Add: windowshade for rail station construction window
10:46:36  <DorpsGek_II> [OpenTTD/nml] michicc merged pull request #22: Add: New railtype flags and precombined spriteset type.
10:49:43  <peter1138> andythenorth, much nicer :)
10:49:51  <andythenorth> 2 lines :P
10:49:55  <peter1138> Yup
10:49:56  <andythenorth> I am GUI expert now
10:51:20  <andythenorth> newgrf docs need an update for railtype flags?
10:52:02  <andythenorth> or am I looking in wrong place?
10:53:44  <peter1138> Oh, I missed that bit
10:53:58  <peter1138> I did the spritesets part :p
10:54:38  <peter1138> I'll add it
10:55:35  <andythenorth> \o/
10:55:46  <andythenorth> I want to play OpenTTD
10:55:49  <andythenorth> but I broke FIRS
10:56:02  <peter1138> Done.
10:56:12  <andythenorth> :)
10:58:00  <andythenorth> nmlc needs the 16-cargo update done
10:58:06  <peter1138> Is it not working?
10:58:07  <andythenorth> and then I need to rewrite FIRS prod cb
10:58:26  <andythenorth> hmm
10:58:39  <peter1138> Oh shit, I modified nml recently, that means I'm the maintainer now, right? :(
10:58:43  <andythenorth> nielsm was the nmlc branch choking on syntax, or just giving me a warning about FIRS?
10:58:48  <andythenorth> "there is no maintainer"
10:58:55  <andythenorth> it's like a spoon
10:58:59  <andythenorth> there is no spoon
10:59:18  <nielsm> andythenorth, I think it was just bad at reporting your syntax error in a comprehensible way
10:59:49  <andythenorth> ok I have an hour or so I can try and update FIRS to work with the new syntax
10:59:59  <andythenorth> nml is such a turkey :)
11:00:01  <andythenorth> nml2!
11:00:05  <andythenorth> NotNML!
11:00:20  <nielsm> NotNFO
11:00:33  <andythenorth> NFO is lovely
11:01:00  <LordAro> YANML
11:01:14  <andythenorth> oof
11:01:38  <andythenorth> let's not confuse the input syntax with the blazing slowness of the compiler :D
11:02:01  <andythenorth> I suspect if any of you made a newgrf for a month, it would get fixed rapido
11:02:05  <andythenorth> maybe you shoul!
11:02:09  <andythenorth> peter1138Trains
11:02:10  <peter1138> non-rect-catchment basically causes the neutral-stations patch to be rewritten "lol"
11:02:19  <andythenorth> LordAro.grf
11:02:24  <nielsm> peter1138 haha
11:03:18  <peter1138> it simplifies it, all the catchment updating code just needs to check the neutral station/industry and ignore all the tile loops.
11:03:26  <peter1138> and then the cargo delivery... just works anyway.
11:03:32  <peter1138> annoying :p
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11:03:42  <peter1138> OH WELL
11:03:43  <nielsm> should have merged them in the opposite order
11:03:49  <peter1138> Yeah
11:04:20  <DorpsGek_II> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] PeterN approved pull request #7341: Add: windowshade for rail station construction window
11:04:38  <DorpsGek_II> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] PeterN merged pull request #7341: Add: windowshade for rail station construction window
11:04:46  <andythenorth> life-changing that one ^
11:04:51  <andythenorth> I made a video even
11:06:45  <peter1138> Hmm.
11:07:02  <peter1138> When an oil rig is created, it doesn't have a station yet, does it.
11:07:19  <andythenorth> takes a short time to get one
11:07:24  <andythenorth> you could 'fix' that :P
11:08:04  <nielsm> the station only appears after the month of construction
11:08:07  <nielsm> afiak
11:08:08  <peter1138> Yeah.
11:08:17  * andythenorth wonders if FIRS compiles yet
11:08:21  <peter1138> I wonder if the already committed patch even works :Lp
11:08:23  <andythenorth> so slow to test
11:08:46  <peter1138> I'm sure it does :)
11:13:15  <peter1138> Thinking about edge cases when loading games with partially built oil rigs
11:13:45  <peter1138> Not a problem in master as catchment and nearby stuff isn't cached so much.
11:14:07  <andythenorth> FIRS compiles \o/
11:14:14  <andythenorth> by deleting everything that uses old syntax
11:14:17  <andythenorth> now I just need to port it
11:14:33  <andythenorth> eh I have commits in master, I want them in a branch, not master
11:14:40  <andythenorth> make new branch, then rebase master, dropping commits?
11:16:15  <andythenorth> seemed to work
11:16:20  <andythenorth> git is like a truck
11:16:36  <andythenorth> very reliable, but don't go round corners to fast, you'll stack it
11:21:10  <andythenorth> nielsm: is the syntax deprecation documented anywhere?  I am looking in commits, but not in the correct places :P
11:21:16  <andythenorth> I want to drop old properties
11:21:29  <andythenorth> or I just diff master I guess
11:21:52  <andythenorth> that works
11:23:49  <nielsm> nope :/
11:24:09  <andythenorth> diff of master is actually the easiest
11:24:56  <andythenorth> I just need to make this generic to n cargos now
11:25:16  <andythenorth> not sure how I'll do the cargo combining calculation
11:26:51  <Eddi|zuHause> i'm not sure if this still happens, but it used to be that in crowded areas, oil rigs would fail to get a station (running out of names? station ids?)
11:27:28  <andythenorth> I have never seen that, doesn't mean it doesn't happen
11:27:28  <peter1138> Running out of station IDs, but that's pretty hard these days.
11:27:49  <peter1138> Running out of names is more likely. Hmm.
11:29:46  <peter1138> Hmm, doesn't look like BuildOilRig can fail.
11:30:15  <peter1138> Oh wait, duh.
11:30:20  <peter1138> Yeah, only if it can't allocate an ID.
11:30:32  <peter1138> So names is not the reason.
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11:34:48  <Eddi|zuHause> right, and i suppose station IDs is now much higher?
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11:36:13  <blelch> Hi!
11:37:03  <blelch> I recently began playing, and I just completed the tutorial, and played around quite a bit during the course of that.
11:37:27  <blelch> I'm starting a new game against RandomAI and AdmiralAI,
11:37:28  <Eddi|zuHause> there's a tutorial?
11:37:32  <blelch> and I want some advice
11:37:35  <blelch> Eddi|zuHause: yes
11:37:40  <blelch> under 'Scenario'
11:37:58  <blelch> So one thing I'm a bit confised about is this:
11:38:20  <blelch> I'm going to be transporting coal to powerstations as the first thing I do,
11:38:49  <blelch> and do I make more money transporting it over large distances, or small?
11:39:09  <blelch> I mean... there are lots of coal & power on this map,
11:39:17  <blelch> so then do I just connect the nearest ones>
11:39:20  <blelch> *?
11:40:02  <nielsm> you usually earn more for transporting longer distances
11:40:35  <nielsm> but on the other hand, if the distance is too long you need more trains/vehicles to keep the loading station busy as to not get low ratings
11:40:49  <nielsm> so the investment for a longer line can be much larger
11:42:00  <blelch> I see...
11:42:14  <andythenorth> I used to start with coal
11:42:16  <andythenorth> which is fine
11:42:20  <andythenorth> but pax is the better start
11:42:28  <andythenorth> higher payment rate, loads both directions
11:42:28  <nielsm> pax = passengers
11:42:30  <blelch> what is pax?
11:42:32  <blelch> ah
11:42:42  <andythenorth> find 2 cities with around 1000 popn
11:42:44  <andythenorth> easy money
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11:42:51  <nielsm> if you can find reasonably large towns it's a better start yes
11:42:52  <blelch> and do trains or planes?
11:42:56  <nielsm> trains usually
11:43:02  <blelch> why?
11:43:09  <blelch> higher capacity?
11:43:10  <nielsm> depends on the year I suppose also
11:43:15  <blelch> 1950
11:43:25  <nielsm> yeah you don't have very many really good planes then
11:43:33  <blelch> ah
11:43:46  <nielsm> around 1960-1970 jet planes appear and become more viable
11:43:46  <blelch> but isn't the return on planes very high?
11:44:10  <nielsm> the investment is also large :)
11:44:47  <nielsm> my experience is that it's usually best to establish a small income base before beginning really big investments
11:44:47  <blelch> ya
11:44:53  <blelch> okay
11:44:57  <blelch> makes sense
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11:45:13  <blelch> one other confusion I have:
11:45:22  <blelch> if I'm transporting passengers,
11:45:29  <nielsm> but really, there are as many strategies for TT as there are players :)
11:45:36  <blelch> will people get in, nomatter where the transport is going?
11:46:12  <nielsm> under default settings, passengers don't have a destination in mind, they go whereever you take them
11:46:26  <blelch> ah, okay :) kinda non-intuitive
11:46:34  <peter1138> In TTD pax generally means passengers and mail together.
11:46:36  <blelch> so ther eare settings that change that>
11:46:44  <nielsm> you can enable the "Cargo distribution" settings to get a kind of simulation of destinations (and yet not really)
11:46:48  <peter1138> (They're both generated by town tiles, rather than industries)
11:47:35  <blelch> peter1138: okay... and looks like Mail haas higher payments too
11:47:46  <peter1138> There's less of it.
11:48:01  <blelch> nielsm: I'll look into it; but I'll play default for now
11:48:07  <blelch> peter1138: ah
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11:49:12  <Hi> Hi
11:49:26  <nielsm> hello
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11:51:11  <TrueBrain> hit and .. run!
11:51:41  <andythenorth> self highlighting also
11:52:29  <TrueBrain> so how is your NewGRF CI going andythenorth?
11:53:15  <blelch> Does 'pause' have a hotkey?
11:53:22  <andythenorth> CI is fine, the rest TB is a shitshow currently :)
11:53:23  <andythenorth>
11:54:46  <TrueBrain> that is not too bad
11:54:51  <TrueBrain> I expected more issues tbh :D
11:55:15  <blelch> is there a keyboard shourtcut to pause?
11:55:35  <nielsm> F1
11:55:42  <andythenorth> the current thinking is we just keep bundles on coop virtualisation infra
11:55:55  <andythenorth> it's not exactly a commodity thing to just get in the cloud
11:56:04  <andythenorth> and we put some creds in AP somehow to publish to it
11:56:32  <TrueBrain> that is how the rest of OpenTTD works too, yes
11:56:50  <TrueBrain> well, we use Service Connections there
11:56:55  <TrueBrain> which connect to DO CDN
11:57:32  <TrueBrain> why not use GitHub releases for bundles btw?
12:01:48  <andythenorth> it's quite limited
12:01:59  <blelch> thanks nielsm
12:02:13  <TrueBrain> in combination with GitHub pages too?
12:03:19  <andythenorth> they are different affordances to bundles
12:03:31  <andythenorth> they could be made to work, but it would be a lot of square peg -> round hole
12:03:51  <TrueBrain> a bundle to me is a zip file, but I guess I am missing something :D
12:04:02  <andythenorth> it involves quite a lot of weird to make GH pages + releases replace bundles
12:06:05  <TrueBrain> like said, I dont know what bundles are; but it sounds like their are weird to start with :D
12:06:19  <andythenorth> they're artefact publishing
12:07:00  <TrueBrain> so what is the issue using GitHub releases for that?
12:08:17  <TrueBrain> makes me wonder if OpenTTD should also publish the files on GitHub releases
12:08:18  <TrueBrain> hmm
12:08:26  <andythenorth> hard to quantify
12:08:38  <andythenorth> I never use GH releases, so I don't know what's possible
12:08:46  <andythenorth> requirements include
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12:08:57  <andythenorth> - publishing artefacts from push builds (untagged)
12:09:07  <andythenorth> - publishing navigable html artefacts
12:09:44  <andythenorth> I don't understand how GH has made these releases
12:09:51  <andythenorth> there is no CI, so it's some kind of magic
12:10:13  <andythenorth> the release bundles are not commited in the repo, for obvs. reasons
12:10:22  <TrueBrain> not really .. GH creates a release for every tag :P
12:10:30  <andythenorth> but that's not the release?
12:10:34  <andythenorth> it's just source?
12:10:41  <andythenorth> no bundle, no binary, no docs, no hash
12:10:44  <andythenorth> etc
12:10:45  <TrueBrain> yeah ...
12:10:48  <TrueBrain> if you dont give GH files
12:10:52  <TrueBrain> the releases are just the source files
12:10:59  <TrueBrain> you need to give it binaries
12:11:03  <andythenorth> so can we educate it?
12:11:09  <TrueBrain> no, you need to upload it
12:11:13  <TrueBrain> the educating part is still WIP
12:11:15  <andythenorth> I am not -1 to GH releases, I just don't understand it
12:11:26  <TrueBrain> just because you don't understand it, doesn't mean you need to be -1 about it :)
12:11:26  <andythenorth> how do we teach it to serve up html?
12:11:36  <TrueBrain> you are jumping :)
12:11:52  <TrueBrain> What a normal flow is for GitHub:
12:12:36  <TrueBrain> you tag a commit, this creates a release (this happens automatically; I believe you can remove a release afterwards)
12:12:46  <TrueBrain> a release, in GitHub terms, always contains the source in a zip and targz
12:12:52  <TrueBrain> you can upload any binary to a release you like
12:12:57  <TrueBrain> as long as they are binaries
12:13:15  <TrueBrain> (well, I believe a file has to be < 2GB. The only real restriction here)
12:13:28  <TrueBrain> so normally you have a CI/CD attached to your repo, that triggers on a tag
12:13:30  <TrueBrain> builds the binaries
12:13:35  <TrueBrain> and attaches that to the GitHub release
12:13:44  <TrueBrain> that makes that part of GitHub go round and round
12:13:55  <TrueBrain> HTML files, have a slight detour, that you have to publish them via GitHub Pages
12:14:03  <andythenorth> well
12:14:09  <TrueBrain> is easy to fully automate, as it is like attaching a binary to a release
12:14:12  <andythenorth> I tested this last week
12:14:15  <TrueBrain> but has a slightly different workflow
12:14:27  <TrueBrain> that is how GitHub defines "releases"
12:14:38  <andythenorth> so the constraints have changed somewhatt
12:14:46  <TrueBrain> the only thing it is absolutely not build for, is to do this for every commit
12:14:58  <andythenorth> well we can probably make it do that anyway
12:15:06  <andythenorth> what harm can it do?
12:15:08  <TrueBrain> you have to tag every commit ;)
12:15:15  <andythenorth> that's fine, just do that?
12:15:34  <TrueBrain> Don't ask me; I am just telling you how GitHub defines "releases"
12:15:40  <TrueBrain> there is nothing specific about what I said :D
12:15:44  <TrueBrain> choices are yours
12:16:00  <andythenorth> commit hook to do a tag?
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12:16:05  <Wolf01> o/
12:16:10  <TrueBrain> no need; Azure Pipelines can tag for you too
12:16:12  <TrueBrain> no problem there
12:16:32  <andythenorth> one constraint is removed
12:16:44  <TrueBrain> you remove constraints? :)
12:16:44  <andythenorth> there are no active coop devzone users except me or george
12:16:48  <Wolf01> I must say that the new lego mustang is EPIC
12:16:55  <andythenorth> so there is no need to build a generic user-friendly solution
12:17:03  <andythenorth> that was looking seriously hard
12:17:17  <andythenorth> I doubt most of our content authors can successfully use GH, never mind AP and the rest
12:17:24  <TrueBrain> I don't know enough about how other people do stuff, so I take your word for it :D
12:17:56  <andythenorth> devzone was very user friendly, because of work done behind the scenes
12:18:12  <TrueBrain> I am completely lost why you think that cannot be done on GH, but okay :)
12:18:36  <andythenorth> it won't be user friendly
12:18:51  <andythenorth> GH is very complex
12:18:54  <TrueBrain> just .. because you cannot see how, does't mean it won't :P
12:18:56  <TrueBrain> no, it is not
12:19:05  <TrueBrain> there is a huge difference between setting stuff up, and using it
12:19:16  <TrueBrain> is GH + AP very complex in usage for OpenTTD, to create new releases?
12:19:22  <TrueBrain> all you have to do, it tag ..
12:19:28  <TrueBrain> that behind the scenes a lot of shit kicks in
12:19:32  <TrueBrain> doesn't mean the user needs to know
12:19:37  <Wolf01> GH is not complex, it depends on which level you want to use it... it's just different
12:19:42  <andythenorth> if we wanted a content author solution, we'd be better building on Dropbox
12:19:57  <andythenorth> or Sharepoint
12:20:14  <TrueBrain> and there was a jump again, which I failed to follow :D
12:21:24  <andythenorth> I am separating two goals
12:21:35  <andythenorth> my goal is quite different to what coop devzone goal was
12:22:25  <andythenorth> I just want these docs back online, for push and release
12:22:37  <andythenorth> keeping history of n recent builds
12:23:09  <andythenorth> GH pages could do that, if a weird version listing is put in front of it
12:23:26  <andythenorth> and if nobody looks too closely at the utterly weird implementation for GH Pages
12:23:36  <TrueBrain> you keep seeing things I fail to see
12:23:47  <TrueBrain> either you are going for a 10 out of 10 solution
12:23:51  <TrueBrain> which is .. impracticle
12:23:58  <TrueBrain> or you are seeing problems you fail to mention
12:24:03  <TrueBrain> but .. something does not compute :D
12:24:11  <andythenorth> I just want those docs back online
12:24:25  <andythenorth> they are currently built from the hg repo which is dead
12:24:35  <andythenorth> so all I need is a documentation publisher
12:24:39  <TrueBrain> so where are things not working out?
12:25:35  <andythenorth> there isn't a single place not working out, I have experimented with multiple approaches
12:25:42  <andythenorth> all have upsides / downsides so far
12:26:12  <andythenorth> we can just publish to existing bundles, which is planetmaker's preferred solution, but needs auth management
12:26:18  <andythenorth> nobody knows how to do that yet
12:26:32  <TrueBrain> I also hear nobody wants to maintain devzone
12:26:35  <andythenorth> I tried the GH pages route, but the AP plug in for it is MS specific
12:26:37  <TrueBrain> so that sounds like a contradiction?
12:27:01  <TrueBrain> you are going to make me clone your repo, are you? :D
12:27:19  <andythenorth> o/c
12:27:23  <andythenorth> there's even an AP branch
12:27:38  <andythenorth> look you
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12:29:04  <TrueBrain> I hate you :( (no, not really)
12:31:48  <TrueBrain> andythenorth: why isn't the name of your repo FIRS, but firs?
12:31:55  <andythenorth> dunno
12:31:58  <andythenorth> I change it?
12:32:04  <TrueBrain> dunno
12:32:05  <TrueBrain> do you?
12:32:12  <andythenorth> I am not very bothered by the case sensitivity
12:32:16  <andythenorth> it's firs on my filesystem
12:32:50  <andythenorth> eh have you actually seen the docs? :P
12:32:59  * andythenorth wonders if it's offscreen actor :P
12:33:08  <TrueBrain> see, capitals!
12:33:20  <andythenorth> but NOT IN THE URL
12:33:25  <andythenorth> omg, where's the quality :(
12:33:33  <andythenorth> downfall of society
12:34:59  <TrueBrain> unpinned dependencies .. bad andythenorth
12:36:46  <andythenorth> there's no deps management at all
12:36:54  <andythenorth> your on your own with getting those :P
12:37:05  <TrueBrain> in the azure file are some :P
12:37:07  <TrueBrain> just not pinned
12:37:09  <TrueBrain> which is HORRIBLE
12:37:19  <andythenorth> sounds like my day job
12:37:29  <TrueBrain> I agree :P
12:37:45  <andythenorth> well pin pillow to 5.4 then :P
12:37:59  <andythenorth> eh it really is just like work
12:38:05  <andythenorth> 'the build broke again'
12:38:12  <andythenorth> "is it pinned?'
12:38:16  <andythenorth> 'no'
12:38:19  <andythenorth> 'well pin it'
12:38:39  <andythenorth> 'is it pinned' -> 'yes' -> 'well just update to latest, probably fine'
12:40:45  <TrueBrain> 6014 commits in FIRS azure-pipelines-setup branch
12:40:48  <TrueBrain> does that sound correct ...
12:41:35  <TrueBrain> so andythenorth .. how do you want to do versions?
12:41:40  <TrueBrain> a single number always going up?
12:41:44  <TrueBrain> based on your latest tag?
12:41:54  <TrueBrain> combination of the two?
12:41:56  <andythenorth> maybe, 2 secs
12:42:07  <andythenorth> alberth thought about this quite a lot and made something
12:42:47  <andythenorth> there's a PR :o
12:42:54  <andythenorth> alberth will be back later
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12:43:12  <andythenorth> also TrueBrain I must -> shops etc
12:43:20  <andythenorth> child management and things
12:43:21  <andythenorth> BIAB
12:43:29  <TrueBrain> o/
12:43:41  <TrueBrain> in git, you basically have 2 choices: git describe --tags, or git rev-list HEAD --count
12:43:58  <TrueBrain> one is based on your latest tag, the other is just an ever increasing number (assuming you stay on the same branch)
12:44:07  <TrueBrain> I will pick the more common one for now (git describe)
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12:48:41  <andythenorth_> oof phone irc
12:49:16  <andythenorth_> TB there is already btw a gh-pages branch, orphaned as per GH instructions
12:49:32  <TrueBrain> I saw
12:49:53  <andythenorth_> it publishes fine, but only single rev, would need extra magic to list multiple revs
12:50:17  <andythenorth_> anyway gfg
12:50:31  <TrueBrain> o/
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12:56:15  <blelch> hi!
12:56:27  <blelch> Does it matter what direction a two-way path signal is pointed?
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12:58:40  <LordAro> blelch: yes, it's (essentially) ignored in the opposite direction
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12:59:52  <blelch> LordAro: oh! what direction do I point them, at stations entrances?
13:00:13  <blelch> because both, trains goin in, as well as out should look at them, no?
13:00:42  <LordAro> stations act as if they've got a built in signal
13:01:10  <LordAro> but i believe they're usually facing out of the station, when they're used
13:01:15  <blelch> ah
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13:01:17  <blelch> okay!
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13:16:22  <andythenorth> so is it done? o_O
13:16:46  <TrueBrain> the advise Azure Pipelines gives to be able to push things to GitHub back  is .. .something I cannot suggest anyone to do
13:17:17  <michi_cc> LordAro: No, no, and no again. Stations do not have a built-in signal, no matter how often people say that, and then wonder why their trains only ever use one track.
13:18:16  <michi_cc> TRAINS have a don't-crash-when-reversing protection, which on terminus stations might seem as if the station would do it.
13:18:37  <LordAro> michi_cc: oh no, i did the thing, didn't i?
13:20:01  <andythenorth> TrueBrain: what's the advice? Should I do it?
13:20:06  <michi_cc> blelch: Stations do not have built-in signals, which becomes apparent on through stations. Path signals should generally be placed with the lights facing the platform to make sure trains do not reserve a path beyond the platforms into the juntion area.
13:20:24  <andythenorth> I thought I was doing that wrong?
13:20:36  <andythenorth> I've been told multiple times I don't need those signals?
13:20:44  <TrueBrain> andythenorth: nobody should ever .. they advise to put your GitHub PAT in an env var
13:20:44  <andythenorth> I always build them anyway,
13:20:58  <TrueBrain> so anyone creating a PR which prints that var, has your PAT, and control over your repo :P
13:21:06  <andythenorth> awesome
13:21:17  <andythenorth> not-secret
13:21:29  <TrueBrain> hmm .. I can use GitHub Actions
13:21:34  <TrueBrain> not sure how they work :P
13:22:08  <andythenorth> is this to push to GH releases, or to commit back?
13:22:28  <andythenorth> I found multiple instructions, Azure is huge and has 10 ways to do everything
13:22:38  <michi_cc> andythenorth: You don't necessarily need signals on terminus stations, but even then they improve things. The difference is easy to see if you manually reverse a train with 'show reserved paths' on.
13:22:40  <TrueBrain> GH Releases is build in, that was the easy part
13:22:48  <TrueBrain> the difficult part is the GitHub Pages, or at least, the pushing part :P
13:22:57  <andythenorth> yeah that's where I got stuck last week
13:23:09  <TrueBrain> that is to say, I do not like the way they want me to do it
13:23:16  <andythenorth> I found a plugin which wrapped Powershell
13:23:22  <TrueBrain> yeah, but that plugin is silly
13:23:24  <andythenorth> so it doesn't work on a linux pipeline
13:23:27  <TrueBrain> I was looking at it, laughed
13:23:40  <andythenorth> I found some other instructions somewhere, but powershell again
13:24:13  <TrueBrain> I was expecting the Service Connection to be alive
13:24:13  <andythenorth> I got a bit scared about accidentally opening my repo to push from unknown 3rd parties
13:24:14  <TrueBrain> but it is not
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13:35:58  <TrueBrain> right .. they do have an additional layer of protection to avoid people sniffing these kinds of things via PRs .. good :)
13:36:08  <TrueBrain> PRs do not have access to secrets
13:36:39  <TrueBrain> FIRS is huge andythenorth! :P
13:38:02  <TrueBrain> ~200 MiB .. lol
13:39:15  <TrueBrain> <- lol .. that user :D
13:40:16  <blelch> michi_cc: okay, got it
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13:40:56  <Samu> hi
13:42:07  <andythenorth> oof dorpsgek gets everywhere TrueBrain
13:42:15  <andythenorth> you should put an end to it
13:42:17  <TrueBrain> git config ''
13:42:19  <TrueBrain> fully in your control :P
13:42:33  <andythenorth> let's see what GH pages does with that
13:42:55  <andythenorth> have you configure publishing?
13:42:59  <andythenorth> configured *
13:43:10  <TrueBrain> publishing failed
13:43:16  <TrueBrain> I think it is because there is no index.html
13:43:21  <andythenorth> oic
13:46:25  <andythenorth> so if the index.html is a list of available artefacts, all prizes are won
13:52:03  <TrueBrain> another route is to make it a Jekyll project, and put the docs per version in a 'collection' :P
13:52:04  <TrueBrain> haha
13:52:06  <TrueBrain> bit overkill :D
13:53:49  <TrueBrain> "Your site is having problems building: Page build failed."
13:53:51  <TrueBrain> that is NOT HELPFUL
13:55:37  <andythenorth> but look how easy it is for me :P
13:55:43  <andythenorth> not helpful andythenorth
13:55:45  <andythenorth> ok BIAB
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13:56:49  <DorpsGek_II> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] SamuXarick commented on pull request #7184: Feature: Distribute cargo to multiple stations or industries
13:57:07  <peter1138> Hi
13:57:14  <Samu> hi
13:58:52  <Xaroth> ho
14:02:55  <peter1138> Time to test neutral stations again
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14:12:24  <TrueBrain> andythenorth: GitHub Pages are very .. euh .. touchy
14:12:40  <andythenorth> what are they whining about
14:12:41  <andythenorth> ?
14:12:52  <TrueBrain> well, no .. it is now that it is not picking up my index.html
14:13:02  <andythenorth> rude
14:13:03  <TrueBrain> and it seems that when I push from Azure Pipelines, it breaks
14:13:06  <TrueBrain> its .. weird
14:13:39  <andythenorth> does it think that you have invalid html?
14:13:42  <andythenorth> maybe it has a linter
14:14:09  <TrueBrain> they documentation suggests that if you put .nojekyll in your folder, everything is published as-is
14:14:55  <andythenorth> this was just published as-is for me
14:14:56  <TrueBrain> yup, as soon as I push via Azure Pipelines, I get "Your site is having problems building: Page build failed."
14:14:58  <TrueBrain> with no reason
14:15:13  <andythenorth> all this cloud stuff is great
14:15:20  <andythenorth> but debugging it fricking sucks
14:15:32  <TrueBrain> I am a bit disappointing, honestly
14:15:38  <TrueBrain> normally GitHub is a lot better in this
14:15:58  <andythenorth> I spent a day last weekend on it, and has some small wins, and much rage
14:16:04  <andythenorth> and the cycle times are so slow
14:16:24  <TrueBrain> cycle times I have no issues with
14:16:30  <TrueBrain> but this is just .. not what they promise :P
14:16:50  <TrueBrain> funny, I cannot disable GitHub pages :D
14:16:55  <andythenorth> ok so what happens if you just push the contents of docs?
14:16:59  <andythenorth> instead of nesting it?
14:17:03  * andythenorth takes one thing at a time
14:17:15  <andythenorth> we know that works if manually commited
14:17:27  <andythenorth> I doubt AP is rewiting any contents on push
14:17:35  <TrueBrain> its not AP
14:17:39  <TrueBrain> I think it is the user I push it via
14:17:40  <andythenorth> it's GH, right?
14:17:42  <andythenorth> oh
14:17:45  <TrueBrain> I think it is because that is not me
14:17:47  <TrueBrain> or something
14:18:54  <TrueBrain> right .. so yeah, I am with you on: GitHub Pages is not working
14:19:06  <TrueBrain> and not because of the other reasons I read today, but simply because it is broken inthe way we want touse it
14:19:40  <TrueBrain> so .. I see 4+ options .. hmm ..
14:19:53  <TrueBrain> you want that every push is recorded, and even downloadable via OpenTTD
14:20:01  <TrueBrain> do all NewGRF authors want this behaviour?
14:20:10  <andythenorth> nobody knows
14:20:16  <andythenorth> there is onlyy me and george left
14:20:24  <TrueBrain> fair
14:20:45  <TrueBrain> so .. I can let you publish on the OpenTTD CDN
14:20:53  <andythenorth> is an option
14:20:54  <TrueBrain> that is possibly the easiest for now
14:21:02  <TrueBrain> but I cannot manage that for everyone that wants that
14:21:19  <andythenorth> bananana ramas
14:21:26  <TrueBrain> we can just patch up BaNaNaS indeed
14:21:31  <TrueBrain> not rewrite, just patching up enough
14:21:33  <andythenorth> the newgrf community is mostly back in forums, doing projects with no vcs
14:21:44  <andythenorth> the attempt to bring them in only worked with a lot of effort
14:21:53  <andythenorth> and honestly, I could give so many urls to drama relating to it
14:22:19  <TrueBrain> okay, let me think about this for a bit .. I see some options and possibilities .. but .. hmm ..
14:22:21  <andythenorth> the whole coop thing created a really unfortunate them / us situation by total accident
14:22:35  <andythenorth> anyway, yes
14:22:39  <andythenorth> it's only file publishing
14:22:46  <andythenorth> but thought is needed
14:22:50  <andythenorth> to see how to make it simple
14:24:03  <TrueBrain> meh. If GitHub Pages just worked, it meant that the effort was on the developer's side ..
14:24:11  <TrueBrain> all other solutions means we have to make something available :P
14:25:07  <TrueBrain> right, off playing some games
14:25:09  <TrueBrain> ciao later
14:27:38  <andythenorth> k thx bai
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14:36:43  <peter1138> Hmm.
14:38:27  <andythenorth> it is?
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14:45:45  <Alberth> moin
14:47:49  <andythenorth> hi :)
14:48:08  <LordAro> o/
14:54:33  <Alberth> something git version numbers I guess
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15:16:28  * andythenorth needs to make this generic
15:16:34  <andythenorth> to 16 cargos, or 8 would be enough
15:16:40  <andythenorth> smells like a loop
15:17:54  <andythenorth> there is actually quite a lot of trivial repetition there currently
15:18:26  <andythenorth> there is only one problem
15:18:34  <andythenorth> I don't know what that code is supposed to do :)
15:19:00  <Alberth> :)
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15:19:31  <peter1138> o
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15:27:52  <Alberth> quak
15:28:07  <frosch123> moo
15:31:12  <peter1138> yio
15:33:48  <andythenorth> so how does FIRS production work?
15:33:53  <andythenorth> does anyone know?
15:35:23  <peter1138> Didn't you write it?
15:37:56  <andythenorth> not really no
15:38:07  <andythenorth> FIRS was much more collaborative, before I drove everyone away
15:38:58  <andythenorth> I should write out the production rules in english, then code that
15:39:14  <andythenorth> there's some faff with keeping leftover cargo around
15:39:23  <andythenorth> maybe to do with integer maths
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15:59:34  <peter1138> Yeah, funny.
16:07:28  <planetmaker> <TrueBrain> [14:20:45] so .. I can let you publish on the OpenTTD CDN <-- right on.... :| Before you do that, make the base sets build on azure, please.
16:07:46  <planetmaker> hi also
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16:09:42  <DorpsGek_II> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] PeterN updated pull request #7235: Change: Non-rectangular sparse station catchment area
16:10:24  <DorpsGek_II> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] PeterN commented on pull request #7235: Change: Non-rectangular sparse station catchment area
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16:11:33  <peter1138> :/
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16:14:06  <Samu> lalala
16:14:25  <peter1138> This guy
16:15:00  <planetmaker> hm, interesting, so your non-rect stations actually speed-up large maps? :)
16:15:38  <peter1138> Yes.
16:16:05  <planetmaker> <3
16:16:06  <peter1138> It speeds up small maps too of course, but the effect is smaller.
16:16:22  <planetmaker> of course. Speed on small maps usually is a non-issue
16:16:45  <peter1138> I think the large map is a non-issue compared to vehicle performance.
16:17:11  <planetmaker> that depends a lot on the use-case / play style
16:17:21  <peter1138> Perhaps. Planes :-)
16:17:27  <planetmaker> playing alone or with very few people on a large map for looong time: of course
16:17:33  <Alberth> o/
16:17:49  <planetmaker> playing on a server with many people and many companies... they might have in sum much fewer vehicles. Then the map sizes actually is important
16:18:34  <planetmaker> generally I agree though: vehicles can cause more issues
16:18:43  <planetmaker> solution: remove vehicles. introduce pipes :P
16:18:50  <peter1138> Hmm, actually VERY VERY large cities are probably slower, as it may end up iterating a larger number of stations than tiles.
16:20:26  <planetmaker> <-- if you care, you could test with one of those games
16:20:44  <peter1138> I'll check with Wentbourne.
16:21:00  <peter1138> I think it was a bullshit test :p
16:21:11  <andythenorth> pipemania
16:22:32  <peter1138> Gotta leave it running for quite a while for the averages to settle down.
16:22:35  <andythenorth> ok so there's a new prod cb format somewhere, let's find that
16:22:49  <peter1138> 1.29ms vs 1.64ms
16:22:53  <peter1138> So... an improvement.
16:23:05  <peter1138> Not worse, which is nice.
16:23:16  <peter1138> It wasn't meant to be a performance improvement anyway, but yeah.
16:26:04  <andythenorth> so the produce syntax is what now? :) produce(test_produce1, [COAL: STORE_TEMP(5, 0); IORE: STORE_TEMP(7, 1);], [STEL: 5;], 1)
16:28:36  <andythenorth> seems to be switch name, 2 lists, and a number?
16:30:28  <DorpsGek_II> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] michicc approved pull request #7235: Change: Non-rectangular sparse station catchment area
16:30:47  <peter1138> Mmm, pork crackling
16:30:57  <peter1138> Because everyone needs a load of fat & salt in their life.
16:31:10  <andythenorth> just one is fine
16:31:12  <andythenorth> maybe two
16:31:16  <peter1138> Wouldn't be so bad if I hadn't overslept.
16:31:23  <andythenorth> maybe I should read the parser rules
16:31:33  <andythenorth> I really like projects where the docs are in the repo
16:31:38  <andythenorth> seriously, fuck this wiki stuff
16:31:52  <andythenorth> testing new features is like pulling teeth
16:31:54  <peter1138> So yeah, turns out OpenTTD is easier than TTD... when you play with some low-price train set.
16:32:14  <andythenorth> I remember when I didn't know what newgrf was
16:32:26  <andythenorth> and the only one I saw screenshots of was george's porn buses
16:32:37  <andythenorth> didn't exactly inspire me that it wasn't some kind of hax
16:32:54  <peter1138> Do you mean that NewGRF specs should be included within OpenTTD's source?
16:33:50  <DorpsGek_II> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] PeterN merged pull request #7235: Change: Non-rectangular sparse station catchment area
16:34:08  <andythenorth> specifically, nml specs should be included in nml repo
16:34:13  <andythenorth> but generally yes
16:34:18  <peter1138> Hmm, ok, that makes sense.
16:34:27  <peter1138> For NewGRF it wasn't because NewGRF wasn't ours.
16:34:32  <andythenorth> it's a solved problem in multiple ways
16:34:42  <andythenorth> sphinx, or readthedocs or just write some html
16:34:49  <andythenorth> like we keep landscape_grid.html maintained
16:34:50  <peter1138> It was ttdpatch's, we just reused it.
16:34:57  <andythenorth> yeah understood :)
16:35:10  <peter1138> And then you need to decide what format it should be in.
16:35:11  <andythenorth> imagine if landscape_grid didn't exist, and it was just read the source every time :P
16:35:17  <peter1138> The wiki is nice with hyperlinks and images.
16:35:25  <andythenorth> I just want the spec
16:35:29  <andythenorth> I don't need all the crap
16:35:29  <peter1138> I had fucking about with the html in the repo personally.
16:35:31  <peter1138> *hate
16:35:40  <andythenorth> how are the nogo and noai docs generated?
16:35:47  <andythenorth> they just work
16:35:59  <andythenorth> anyway, reading parser, it looks like
16:35:59  <andythenorth> prod_action = Action2Production(, produce.pos, 2, sub_in, add_out, again)
16:36:05  <andythenorth> dunno what the 2 is doing
16:36:14  <peter1138> They are doxygen.
16:36:24  <peter1138> They are literally generated from the comments in the source code.
16:36:45  <andythenorth> so we'd have to doxygen nml to do that
16:36:50  <peter1138> That works because it is documenting an API.
16:37:00  <peter1138> But NewGRF/nml is probably a bit more abstract.
16:38:28  <andythenorth> +1
16:38:47  <peter1138> So yeah. Station catchment is now symmetric.
16:40:16  <andythenorth> nielsm: can you shed light on the new produce() block? o_O
16:41:01  <peter1138> Hmm, damn, don't have the openttdcoop grf pack
16:41:51  <planetmaker> peter1138,
16:42:19  <planetmaker> yay... only 9 years old :P
16:42:47  <Alberth> oh, a decade in thsi century :)
16:44:03  <Alberth> andy: at work I use restructured text with sphinx, or markdown if it's really simple
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16:48:09  <peter1138> I just realised... "Town cargo generation"
16:48:32  <peter1138> Should perhaps have been "Town passenger/mail generation"
16:50:30  <peter1138> planetmaker, thanks, btw.
16:52:31  <DorpsGek_II> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] Berbe commented on pull request #7348: Fix: BaseMedia<Tbase_set>::AddFile searches for fullpaths instead of files
16:54:30  <frosch123> Alberth: ottd turned 15 last wednesday, noone noticed the pimpled teenager
16:55:38  <peter1138> :)
16:56:18  <Alberth> too subtle, clearly :D
16:56:23  <Guest2828> I am not fond of teenagers...
16:58:40  <DorpsGek_II> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] PeterN commented on pull request #7348: Fix: BaseMedia<Tbase_set>::AddFile searches for fullpaths instead of files
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17:03:25  <Beerbelott1> peter1138: SHall a 'Fix' title reflects what is to be fixed or what the fix is w/o mentioning what was wrong?
17:04:05  <frosch123> both, unless that makes it redundant
17:04:09  <TrueBrain>
17:04:28  <peter1138> ^^
17:05:01  <TrueBrain> basically, worded differently: don't put in the commit message HOW you made the fix, as the diff will show that
17:05:11  <TrueBrain> I think that is where most of the confusion comes from
17:05:28  *** Beerbelott1 is now known as Beerbelott
17:06:12  <Beerbelott> Well, what's wrong with 'Fix: BaseMedia<Tbase_set>::AddFile searches for fullpaths instead of files' then?
17:06:29  <Beerbelott> Msg describes what was wrong
17:06:40  <Beerbelott> seems to confuse peter1138
17:06:58  <TrueBrain> it confused me too :D but I was to chicken to say so :P (sorry)
17:06:58  <DorpsGek_II> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] PeterN opened pull request #7349: Fix: Show industry name in Land Area Information window for oil-rig type stations instead of just 'Oil Rig'
17:07:11  <Beerbelott> Why smallest changes always bring the most quibble? :p
17:07:22  <TrueBrain> the smaller the change, the better the commit message should be ;)
17:07:24  <Beerbelott> Suggestions, then?
17:07:24  <peter1138> Beerbelott, what's it fixing?
17:07:35  <Beerbelott> path -> filename
17:07:35  <peter1138> I posted the question already, so I won't repeat it.
17:07:57  <peter1138> I think you've documented what you've changed
17:08:03  <TrueBrain> AddFile searches ... <- so that says that AddFile is doing something? or are you changing it?
17:08:06  <peter1138> It doesn't say what you've fixed.
17:08:17  <TrueBrain> or were you expecting it to do that?
17:08:38  <TrueBrain> especially as you change something in AddFile, it becomes very confusing
17:08:47  <TrueBrain> did you change the interface? Was this a bug? What was the bug?
17:08:56  <Beerbelott> TrueBrain said it could either discribe what has changed or what is to be changed. That title is true for the latter
17:09:23  <TrueBrain> okay, let me try to phrase this differently: clearly, we are not understanding it, so something about it has to change :)
17:09:31  <TrueBrain> now I cannot help, as I don't udnerstand :P
17:09:37  <TrueBrain> so .. Explain to me like I am five
17:09:45  <Beerbelott> and I don't get what you do not understand, thus I'd be glad to change something but I do not know what
17:09:56  <TrueBrain> explain in ANY other way what your PR is doing
17:10:10  <TrueBrain> as we cannot stay stuck in this: you dont understand and I dont udnerstand what you dont understand :D
17:10:11  <Beerbelott> What it is doing then... not what has to be changed?
17:10:26  <TrueBrain> in what ever way you feel like, describe in any other way what the PR is doing
17:10:56  <TrueBrain> doesn't have to be in a commit message style
17:10:58  <TrueBrain> just .. I want to understand
17:11:01  <TrueBrain> so .. yell anything :)
17:11:26  <Beerbelott> Done... I guess? -_-'
17:11:34  <TrueBrain> you didn't say anything
17:11:40  <TrueBrain> not sure what is going on on your end? :)
17:11:53  <Alberth> what didn't work?
17:12:10  <Beerbelott> I edited the PR title
17:12:18  <TrueBrain> okay, try it in IRC
17:12:20  <TrueBrain> explain to me
17:12:22  <TrueBrain> ME, TrueBrain
17:12:24  <TrueBrain> like I am 5
17:12:26  <TrueBrain> what your PR is doing
17:12:27  <TrueBrain> go
17:13:50  <Beerbelott> AddFile uses LoadFromDisk to search for a resource calling it with a fullpath to a file, not merely its filename, resulting in broken paths which won't ever be found
17:14:36  <Beerbelott> I changed this call w/ a fullpath to a call w/ a filename
17:14:44  <Eddi|zuHause> so how do you trigger the broken behaviour?
17:15:26  <Beerbelott> calling the dumb LoadForDisk w/ a wrong resource name (ie a fullpath)
17:15:47  <Eddi|zuHause> no. what would a user have to click on to see it's not working.
17:16:34  <Beerbelott> User does not have to do anything, apart from launching the game
17:17:06  <Beerbelott> it eventually succeeds, after 10 missed calls everytime
17:17:14  <Beerbelott> Look at the output I provided as attachment
17:17:31  <TrueBrain> okay, I see the ELI5 failed there :D (no reddit fan I guess? :D)
17:19:00  <TrueBrain> hmm .. I notice it is vastly more difficult to explain this in English than in my native language :D
17:19:02  <TrueBrain> funny
17:19:32  <TrueBrain> Beerbelott: I think more to the point is not the how (AddFile now calls LoadFromDisk with filename, not fullpath, right?)
17:19:52  <TrueBrain> but more important is: AddFile assumed LoadFromDisk can handle a fullpath, but it cannot?
17:20:31  <TrueBrain> so the "why" people ask about, is not the fact that AddFile now uses A instead of B .. that is the "how" you did it
17:20:32  <Beerbelott> It's the only location I spot in code where this mistake is made, thus the rest of the codebase seems to handle LoadFromDisk properly
17:20:46  <TrueBrain> so, it is more telling to explain this part in the commit message
17:20:53  <TrueBrain> LoadFromDisk expect a filename, not a fullpath
17:21:03  <TrueBrain> with that commit message, you explain much more WHY you made the change
17:21:16  <Eddi|zuHause> Beerbelott: the problem is not that there's anything wrong with your commit message or your commit, but that you assume people know wtf LoadFromDisk is meant to do.
17:21:16  <Alberth> LoadFromDisk has that limitation documented?
17:21:23  <TrueBrain> you see a bit where I am going here Beerbelott?
17:21:34  <Beerbelott> TrueBrain Yes
17:21:57  <TrueBrain> it is not easy, to explain this, especially over text :P
17:22:13  <Beerbelott> However, I do not necessarily have konwledge on LoadFromDisk either, I just noticed something went wrong repeatedly on this specific call
17:22:26  <TrueBrain> so .. do we  need to double check your claim? :D
17:22:36  <TrueBrain> as how I understand your PR, you claim that LoadFromDisk wants a filename, not a fullpath?
17:22:51  <Beerbelott> I'm a little wary of explaining how functions/procedures work w/o fully understanding them
17:23:15  <TrueBrain> always important to add that to PRs; not because we will think any less of you or your PR, in fact the oposite
17:23:27  <TrueBrain> as that would mean someone will check real quick if he agrees with your assessment
17:23:38  <Beerbelott> It searches through searchpaths so it *seems* so, yeah
17:23:41  <TrueBrain> (knowing what you don't know is more important than knowing what you know :D)
17:24:00  <Beerbelott> TrueBrain Knowing what I don't know makes me refrain to explain what I do not know :)
17:24:06  <TrueBrain> so by shifting your commit message from how you fixed it to what you wanted to fix, greatly helps :)
17:24:13  <Beerbelott> thus explaining WTH LoadFromDisk does
17:24:30  <Beerbelott> TrueBrain That I get
17:24:43  <Beerbelott> I'll give it another try? ;)
17:24:46  <TrueBrain> go for it!
17:25:00  <Beerbelott> I'll change the title for know, the commit will align afterwards
17:25:11  <TrueBrain> sure
17:27:23  <TrueBrain> * Load the Ini file's data from the disk.
17:27:24  <TrueBrain>  * @param filename the file to load.
17:27:24  <TrueBrain>  * @param subdir the sub directory to load the file from.
17:27:28  <TrueBrain> (documentation on LoadFromDisk)
17:27:33  <TrueBrain> it expects a FILENAME, so yeah
17:27:45  <Beerbelott> Fix: IniLoadFile::LoadFromDisk expects filename, BaseMedia<Tbase_set>::AddFile provides fullpath
17:27:46  <Beerbelott> ?
17:27:59  <Beerbelott> But again... that's bold about LoadFromDisk :(
17:28:02  <TrueBrain> personally, all those classes and templates are confusing the fuck out of me
17:28:05  <TrueBrain> those details are in the diff
17:28:08  <Beerbelott> It *seems* merely
17:28:18  <TrueBrain> well, there you are in a pickle
17:28:21  <TrueBrain> if you are right, your PR is valid
17:28:24  <TrueBrain> if you are wrong, your PR is not valid
17:28:27  <Beerbelott> yup
17:28:28  <TrueBrain> so .. you first need to be sure :)
17:28:48  <Beerbelott> That's where the reviews kick in?
17:29:04  <TrueBrain> mention that in the PR plz :)
17:30:32  <Beerbelott> Done?
17:31:41  <TrueBrain> in general, just be honest in PRs :) I rather spend 5 minutes checking something, than finding out later the assumption was wrong :P
17:32:00  <Beerbelott> I did try my best
17:32:18  <Beerbelott> You can notice I'm generally (too) verbose about the what and hows
17:32:51  <Beerbelott> It was under my assumption reviews were there to ensure assumptions where right and changes were not wreaking havok
17:33:07  <Beerbelott> -k+c
17:33:29  <Eddi|zuHause> reviews have a dozen different uses
17:33:29  <TrueBrain> and yeah, I am not sure what others would do, but I would have done: "Fix: LoadFromDisk expects a filename, not a fullpath\n\nAddFile has a parameter 'filename' which in fact have a 'basepath' in front of it. LoadFromDisk only wants 'filename'  and will search the directories himself again to find the file. This behaviour sounds really really fishy
17:33:30  <TrueBrain>  in general, and someone totally fucked up 'filename' versus 'fullpath', but owh well, what can you do"
17:33:36  <TrueBrain> pretty sure that commit message is not a good one either :P
17:34:13  <DorpsGek_II> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] Berbe dismissed a review for pull request #7348: Fix: IniLoadFile::LoadFromDisk seems to expect filename, BaseMedia<Tbase_set>::AddFile provides fullpath
17:34:13  <TrueBrain> few things worth mentioning: writing commit message is an art; nobody really is good in it etc :P
17:34:14  <DorpsGek_II> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] Berbe updated pull request #7348: Fix: IniLoadFile::LoadFromDisk seems to expect filename, BaseMedia<Tbase_set>::AddFile provides fullpath
17:34:16  <Eddi|zuHause> i would maybe do a pass or two over it to tone down the language :p
17:34:28  <TrueBrain> reviews work best if all information is given to the reviewer
17:34:46  <TrueBrain> and in general, if we trust people, we are less likely to go in detail of the PR
17:35:03  <TrueBrain> we don't have the time/spirit to check every commit in full depth ;)
17:35:43  <Beerbelott> I know that, thus full disclosure on how I proceeded. Seems I left loads of information out this time
17:35:48  <TrueBrain> the more I look in the code around this function, the more I am horified :P
17:35:57  <TrueBrain> happens to all of us Beerbelott :)
17:36:03  <Beerbelott> It was a pain to end up with that single-liner
17:36:25  <Beerbelott> I enven tried to use DEBUG preprocessor call there. Bust.
17:36:40  <TrueBrain> but it is really really weird
17:36:46  <TrueBrain> the function is called with a basepath attached
17:36:51  <TrueBrain> why is that ...
17:36:56  <Beerbelott> It wouldn't surprise me if that was one of the oldest codebase parts
17:37:21  <michi_cc> Oh, there's stuff way, way older :p
17:37:46  <nielsm> andythenorth: sorry was out, still need explanations of the new produce()?
17:37:58  <andythenorth> please nielsm :)
17:37:58  <Beerbelott> I burned LordAro positive review in the process... It was my only PR w/ a review and I broke it :D
17:38:16  <peter1138> 17:35 < TrueBrain> the more I look in the code around this function, the more I am
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17:38:19  <peter1138>                    horified :P
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17:38:24  <peter1138> I suspect that is how Beerbelott got there in the first place :)
17:38:32  <peter1138> "OMG what is this"
17:38:38  <andythenorth> Alberth: yeah .rst or .md is preferred by me, .md seems to have won more
17:38:59  <Beerbelott> peter1138: Looking at debug traces, yes you're on point...
17:39:03  <TrueBrain> but seriously .. this code looks wrong ..
17:39:20  <TrueBrain> (not the PR; the code)
17:39:33  <nielsm> andythenorth: it's sort of the same, except you don't specify what expressions apply to each "slot" at the industry (first/second/third input, first/second output) but instead specify what registers apply to each named cargo the industry handles in respectively input and output
17:39:46  <Alberth> .md is simpler, which is often sufficient, not to mention GH uses it as wiki language
17:40:08  <TrueBrain> that BASESET_DIR looks weird
17:40:08  <Beerbelott> peter1138: You know what? I was tracing all the loading chain to try to have a grasp on how/where searchpaths were used to try to understand a way to document/improve this directory crap found out during PR #7339
17:40:18  <TrueBrain> shouldn't that just be NO_DIRECTORY?
17:40:25  <andythenorth> nielsm: the example confuses me, it's using STORE_TEMP?
17:40:49  <andythenorth> so are the numbers storage numbers, or amounts?
17:41:21  <Beerbelott> TrueBrain That's the kind of knowledge I was referencing. I know sth was fishy there... but global understandind whould probably yield better changes
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17:43:58  <nielsm> andythenorth: here's a somewhat more complex example which I think might actually be easier to understand?
17:44:51  <nielsm> a chain of callbacks picking what combination of inputs stockpiled to use, setting registers for how much of each input to consume
17:45:11  <nielsm> and then using those registers in the final produce() to consume and produce named cargos
17:46:19  <andythenorth> ok that looks easy to understand, thanks
17:46:24  <nielsm> the result of the expressions in the produce() line are the amounts of cargo to consume/produce, nmlc handles putting them in registers
17:46:33  <TrueBrain> yeah, I am pretty sure that should be NO_DIRECTORY instead
17:46:55  <TrueBrain> it works with BASESET_DIR, but that is only because it is ever used on BASESET_DIR
17:47:02  <Beerbelott> To trace the code behaviour, I use a modified version of functions called through the DEBUG macro including pid, file, line & function name. Would that be of interest to be added to the codebase or would that end-up w/ too long/verbose lines?
17:47:38  <TrueBrain> from what I gather, Scan() scans BASESET_DIR for ini files
17:47:45  <TrueBrain> when found, AddFile is called (that is how it works)
17:47:59  <TrueBrain> with 'filename' as the fullpath, basepath_length the offset of the subdirectory
17:48:16  <TrueBrain> LoadFromDisk either expects a DIR to search in, or NO_DIRECTORY if the file already has everything
17:48:34  <TrueBrain> so your PR now removes the basepath_length again, and again searches the searchpaths
17:48:42  <TrueBrain> basically, if you have 2 identical named files in 2 folders
17:48:47  <TrueBrain> with your PR, it will open the same twice
17:48:49  <TrueBrain> instead of both :D
17:48:59  <TrueBrain> but this really is some fishy code :P
17:50:09  <DorpsGek_II> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] TrueBrain commented on pull request #7348: Fix: IniLoadFile::LoadFromDisk seems to expect filename, BaseMedia<Tbase_set>::AddFile provides fullpath
17:51:44  <Beerbelott> I'll give it a shot
17:51:45  <DorpsGek_II> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] TrueBrain commented on pull request #7348: Fix: IniLoadFile::LoadFromDisk seems to expect filename, BaseMedia<Tbase_set>::AddFile provides fullpath
17:52:54  <TrueBrain> owh, my suggestion might kill tar support
17:53:05  <TrueBrain> if that exists in the first place for basesets
17:53:53  <peter1138> It does, yes.
17:53:56  <peter1138> It works fine.
17:54:06  <TrueBrain> this code ..... lol
17:54:07  <peter1138> OpenGFX is a tar.
17:54:32  <peter1138> But it also works to put the original files in tars, even the sound and music files.
17:54:36  <TrueBrain> I get why Beerbelott had a headache :)
17:55:00  <peter1138>
17:55:21  <peter1138> Although actually having dos-sound and win-sound together doesn't work, because the filename inside is still
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17:55:59  <DorpsGek_II> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] nielsmh approved pull request #7349: Fix: Show industry name in Land Area Information window for oil-rig type stations instead of just 'Oil Rig'
17:56:23  <Beerbelott> TrueBrain Well I still need to improve on PR/commit message writing (which is an infinite process, implying subjectivity), but thx for taking the necessary time to have dug into the dirt ;)
17:56:37  <Beerbelott> I'll push yet another commit w/ proposed changes
17:56:40  <nielsm> oh.... right
17:56:44  <Beerbelott> suggested*
17:56:53  <nielsm> I'll have to fix kdtree to work with the new station catchment area
17:57:19  <TrueBrain> Beerbelott: now I feel all dirty :P
17:57:37  <TrueBrain> peter1138: seems musicsets don't support tar :P
17:57:42  <TrueBrain> (gfx and sfx do)
17:57:47  <TrueBrain> what is that for a weird thing ...
17:57:59  <peter1138> Oh, whoops, yes, I didn't notice :-)
17:58:07  <TrueBrain> why ... is music different
17:58:09  <TrueBrain> I mean .. why?!
17:58:11  <TrueBrain> TELL ME WHY
17:58:16  <peter1138> Well, it was becuase we used external players.
17:58:22  <TrueBrain> ah, ofc :)
17:58:25  <TrueBrain> makes sense :D
17:58:30  <peter1138> With libfluidsynth it should be possible, I think?
17:58:56  <nielsm> change all music players to use midifile.cpp stuff and feed midi directly into the driver
17:58:58  <TrueBrain> tars are only searched in the old data older and old gm folder
17:59:01  <TrueBrain> not in thei baseset dir
17:59:05  <nielsm> and it can read data from anywhere without temp files!
17:59:06  <TrueBrain> seriously .. all these exceptions on exception
17:59:20  <TrueBrain> nielsm: how does that work for external midi players? :P
17:59:33  <nielsm> it doesn't? :D
17:59:43  <TrueBrain> euhm, what I said above is not true
17:59:45  <TrueBrain> neither is this comment
17:59:46  <TrueBrain>  /* Searching in tars is only done in the old "data" directories basesets. */
17:59:46  <TrueBrain>                 uint num = fs.Scan(GetExtension(), Tbase_set::SEARCH_IN_TARS ? OLD_DATA_DIR : OLD_GM_DIR, Tbase_set::SEARCH_IN_TARS);
17:59:46  <TrueBrain>                 return num + fs.Scan(GetExtension(), BASESET_DIR, Tbase_set::SEARCH_IN_TARS);
17:59:54  <TrueBrain> seriously .. that fucking comment is a fucking lie
18:00:05  <nielsm> tar pit
18:00:07  <peter1138> nielsm, midifile stuff doesn't work with tars, either.
18:00:19  <peter1138> I don't know why, it uses FioFOpenFile. Hmm.
18:00:44  <nielsm> peter1138, well at least it could be made to!
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18:01:04  <peter1138> Ah, I suspect it's passed a filename already.
18:01:31  <peter1138> Hmm, no.
18:01:58  <TrueBrain> there is code to patch up if a file could not be found in ways I dont dare to talk about :P
18:02:18  <peter1138> It's complicated.
18:02:21  <TrueBrain> if you were looking in SUBDIR BASESET, it does something else, in case the file was not found
18:02:25  <peter1138> Like some kind of relationship status.
18:02:29  <TrueBrain> yeah ..
18:02:39  <TrueBrain> well, git blame shows who created this mess
18:02:42  <TrueBrain> sadly, I cannot ask him to fix it :P
18:02:44  <TrueBrain> he won't :D
18:02:46  <peter1138> Probably these are to handle edgecases with old data paths, non-xdg, etc...
18:02:53  <TrueBrain> yeah
18:03:42  <TrueBrain> well, honestly, this whole searchpath stuff could use a revamp anyway
18:03:48  <TrueBrain> as still .. global / shared / personal
18:03:51  <TrueBrain> I don't understand it :D
18:04:14  <peter1138> global is /usr/local/
18:04:22  <peter1138> shared is ~/.local/share
18:04:30  <peter1138> personal is ./
18:04:33  <peter1138> or somethign like that
18:04:34  <Alberth> in ~ :p
18:04:40  <peter1138> relative to the config file
18:04:43  <TrueBrain> yeah ... that 'shared' vs 'personal' is a mystery to me :P
18:04:50  <TrueBrain> ah, no, PERSONAL is weirder
18:04:52  <TrueBrain> weirder?
18:04:54  <TrueBrain> yes, weirder
18:05:07  <Beerbelott> I am glad all this discussion reflects what I have been through these past days hetting lost in search path names, finding out exceptions on how directories were scanned, multiple file loading functions....
18:05:09  <peter1138> ~/.openttd is the old way of course, but many probably still have it.
18:05:25  <TrueBrain> personal dir is ~/.openttd
18:05:31  <Beerbelott> No wonder I dnded up looking at base_media_func -_-'
18:05:33  <TrueBrain> (it still is)
18:05:41  <Beerbelott> TrueBrain Not necessarily :)
18:05:52  <Beerbelott>
18:06:10  <Beerbelott> in trunk, personal_dir can end up being the dir where the config file is loaded from :D
18:06:16  <Beerbelott> (unless you use XDG)
18:06:22  <TrueBrain> I am going to walk away slowly now :P
18:06:34  <TrueBrain> okay, at least the shared vs personal makes sense there
18:06:37  <TrueBrain> shitty names
18:06:41  <TrueBrain> but that would make sense
18:06:43  <Beerbelott> (but the XDG creates a new searchpath instead of overwriting the PERSONAL_DIR entry... why??? no idea)
18:06:48  <Alberth> one big hole is that newgrf is searched and found on the disk, but when you load it, it uses deduction what it was, which may be wrong if several things have the same name
18:07:00  <TrueBrain> Alberth: yup ..
18:07:16  <peter1138> nielsm, oh... even fluidsynth uses direct access, not MidiFile :/
18:07:25  <DorpsGek_II> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] TrueBrain commented on pull request #7348: Fix: IniLoadFile::LoadFromDisk seems to expect filename, BaseMedia<Tbase_set>::AddFile provides fullpath
18:07:45  <nielsm> peter1138: yeah, it could be made to use MidiFile but it'd be a bunch of work
18:07:48  <peter1138> Well, it uses MidiFIile::GetSMFFile.
18:07:52  <TrueBrain> Alberth: and I was thinking: look, even the 'tarfilename' is given to AddFile .. but only a very few implementations use it :P
18:07:57  <nielsm> everything uses that
18:08:02  <TrueBrain> (I guess AIs, as they have the same names in them :P)
18:08:10  <Beerbelott> TrueBrain shall I follow your advice or not? Your comments on PR are free rolling :D
18:08:16  <nielsm> since that's what decocdes the MPS midi to standard midi
18:08:21  <nielsm> if the user has chosen a dos music set
18:08:25  <Alberth> probably for squirrels, yes
18:08:27  <TrueBrain> Beerbelott: it is not like I know wha tI am talking about :P So no .. this needs more testing :D
18:08:45  <TrueBrain> it is possibly my suggestion works, but someone needs to test it, including tar support
18:08:49  <TrueBrain> it might or might not fix your issue :P
18:09:10  <TrueBrain> (I haven't touched the code in 5+ years .. so yeah .. don't take my word for it, please :D) (I am being serious)
18:09:38  <TrueBrain> I am going to play Path of Exile now :P
18:09:49  <TrueBrain> what a mess ... :D
18:10:11  <Beerbelott> How could I test this tar thing?
18:10:29  <Beerbelott> Would merely putting orig_dos_de.obg in a tar archive work?
18:11:41  <TrueBrain> peter1138? :D
18:11:47  <peter1138> Hmm?
18:11:52  <peter1138> obg? Yes.
18:14:33  <DorpsGek_II> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] nielsmh updated pull request #7250: K-d tree data structure for spatial lookups
18:15:05  <nielsm> anyone want to give that a review soon? :3
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18:16:36  <DorpsGek_II> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] PeterN merged pull request #7349: Fix: Show industry name in Land Area Information window for oil-rig type stations instead of just 'Oil Rig'
18:16:42  <peter1138> I have been ;)
18:17:02  <peter1138> Might be nice to squash it a bit?
18:17:17  <nielsm> yeah I intend to squash it down to 4 commits before merge
18:17:25  <peter1138> Can you merge it before review then?
18:17:35  <nielsm> sure
18:18:13  <peter1138> was there much to change for non-rect?
18:19:19  <peter1138> I think I removed the one place where k-d tree would've been useful.
18:19:38  <nielsm> nope, it was just two lines added at the same spot
18:19:49  <nielsm> that it needed me to tell both should be there
18:20:23  <nielsm> I did a full project search for FOR_ALL_STATIONS and there's none left that search for stations near somewhere
18:21:12  <peter1138> It was mainly about towns, though.
18:23:03  <DorpsGek_II> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] nielsmh updated pull request #7250: K-d tree data structure for spatial lookups
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18:24:49  <peter1138> Ah yeah, I remember ModifyStationRatingAround()
18:24:56  <peter1138> I considered converting it to a tile loop.
18:25:05  <peter1138> But the radius is WAY WAY larger than the catchment stuff.
18:25:13  <peter1138> Would've been scanning tons of tiles.
18:28:56  <peter1138> I have a savegame where some town tiles are WAY WAY out of the town radius.
18:33:09  <nielsm> ForAllStationsNearTown<> could be improved with a fast-ish integer square root upper bound
18:33:42  <DorpsGek_II> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] Berbe commented on pull request #7348: Fix: IniLoadFile::LoadFromDisk seems to expect filename, BaseMedia<Tbase_set>::AddFile provides fullpath
18:33:50  <nielsm> (close to but greater than the true sqrt)
18:34:44  <peter1138> Huh?
18:34:56  <peter1138> It doesn't use square root.
18:35:23  <nielsm> it should, ideally
18:35:26  <peter1138> Hmm
18:35:48  <nielsm> it won't be wrong, but it'll be inefficient for towns with very large radii
18:35:49  <peter1138> You think replacing the squaring with a precalculated square-root would save much?
18:36:48  <nielsm> nah the search radius passed on to ForAllStationsRadius<> is what needs to be taken a proper root of
18:37:07  <nielsm> instead of the really bad approximation that is division by two
18:37:57  <peter1138> Ah.
18:38:43  <peter1138> If it should be a square root, you could comment it with ("this should be a square root but that's too damn slow")
18:38:48  <peter1138> -with
18:39:38  <nielsm> I just want a number that is not less than the true square root, closer to the true value makes the kdtree search have less false positives
18:39:59  <peter1138> Yeah, I mean someone in the future may wonder about iot.
18:40:52  <peter1138> Say some algorithm changes and non-squared radius becomes available.
18:41:03  <peter1138> Who knows
18:43:23  <peter1138> Btw
18:43:38  <peter1138> in station_cmd.cpp:3836
18:43:54  <peter1138> That's the bit that was a FOR_ALL_STATIONS() briefly in the non-rect-catchment PR.
18:44:27  <peter1138> I don't know if a k-d tree look up with be beneficial or not.
18:44:35  <peter1138> s/with/would/
18:45:32  <nielsm> hmm, not sure if that's possible in a reliable manner
18:45:43  <nielsm> since the tree only stores the station sign locations
18:45:53  <peter1138> I switched it back to a tile loop as it's basically fixed-complexity.
18:46:01  <peter1138> Ah, right.
18:46:14  <nielsm> the distance from sign to a tile within catchment depends on both catchment radius _and_ max station spread
18:46:18  <peter1138> Yeah you'd have to test a very large area.
18:46:19  <nielsm> and the max spread can change during a game
18:46:31  <peter1138> Yup. That was something I found :-)
18:46:46  <peter1138> You basically always have to use the max, regardless of current setting.
18:46:50  <peter1138> Even if it's never been used, heh.
18:47:06  <nielsm> I don't think you can do any better than this without getting wrong results in some corner cases
18:47:36  <peter1138> *nod*
18:47:46  <peter1138> Still, it's better than it used to be.
18:48:01  <peter1138> Used to do that tile scan every time a tile produced cargo.
18:48:13  <nielsm> any more points of attention before I push again? :)
18:49:44  <peter1138> 50k stations save seems better.
18:49:54  <peter1138> Loading is slow, dunno if it's actually worse thoug.
18:50:31  <nielsm> panning the viewport is significantly better with that save
18:50:48  <nielsm> since the viewport sign kdtree limits the number of signs considered a _lot_
18:51:08  <peter1138> Slowness might be non-rect-catchment
18:51:28  <peter1138> Preloading the catchments can take a while with that many stations. Hmm.
18:51:52  <nielsm> yeah that save has lots of disconnected station parts, spread over a large distance
18:51:52  <peter1138> Nice long pause when toggling neutral stations
18:52:09  <peter1138> Oof
18:52:11  <nielsm> so it'll probably make lots of big bitmap catchments
18:52:14  <peter1138> Yup.
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18:52:28  <peter1138> Mind you, that was a save designed to stress things and not be a realistic save.
18:52:34  <nielsm> yes :P
18:54:18  <peter1138> Is KDTREE_DEBUG stuff necessary to keep?
18:55:44  <nielsm> maybe not really, but otoh I think the dead code might help explain the rest
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18:56:17  <nielsm> also for potential unit tests in the future
18:56:21  <peter1138> Alright
18:56:30  <peter1138> Nothing stands out.
18:56:59  <peter1138> I think gabdazm picked up quite a few things which you addressed already.
18:57:40  <nielsm> the 50k stations save is funny how all the towns grow at insane rates
18:58:29  <peter1138> Hmm 7pm. Maybe dindins.
18:58:33  <andythenorth> yeah
18:58:35  <andythenorth> I should make
18:58:42  <andythenorth> chicken burger + chips
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19:06:08  <peter1138> Hmm, GM.CAT does not work, only :/
19:07:04  <nielsm> I had a lot of annoying issues with that
19:07:14  <nielsm> clearly not all solved
19:07:53  <peter1138> Does not work in a tarfile either.
19:08:14  <peter1138> Oh well, not worth wasting time on :)
19:08:28  <nielsm> well, I don't expect anyone will actually create their own mps midi data
19:08:47  <nielsm> (they'd have to make the tooling first, and it doesn't really have any advantages over standard midi)
19:10:22  <peter1138> Sounds slightly different. Maybe just quieter.
19:10:47  <nielsm> the original driver does have some curious attenuation rules
19:10:55  <nielsm> so yes it will be less loud
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19:17:41  <DorpsGek_II> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] nielsmh updated pull request #7250: K-d tree data structure for spatial lookups
19:17:58  <DorpsGek_II> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] Berbe opened pull request #7350: Change: Add pid, file, line number & function/procedure name to debug messages
19:21:16  <DorpsGek_II> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] PeterN approved pull request #7250: K-d tree data structure for spatial lookups
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19:27:14  <DorpsGek_II> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] nielsmh merged pull request #7250: K-d tree data structure for spatial lookups
19:27:37  <nielsm> my only open PRs now are backports :o
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19:29:43  <peter1138> Make some more ;)
19:30:25  <andythenorth> port FIRS?
19:30:27  <andythenorth> PR that
19:30:33  * andythenorth should do it, but eh
19:30:55  <andythenorth> about one billion things keep beeping and telling me to do stuff
19:34:23  <nielsm> but maybe I should try to do this thing:
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19:38:23  <andythenorth> interesting nielsm
19:41:07  <nielsm> that picture?
19:41:18  <DorpsGek_II> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] Berbe commented on pull request #7350: Change: Add pid, file, line number & function/procedure name to debug messages
19:41:42  <andythenorth> nielsm: what's the last entry in produce() now?
19:41:52  <nielsm> same as before :) "repeat"
19:41:53  <andythenorth> how many times to repeat?
19:41:54  <andythenorth> ok
19:42:16  <nielsm> just bool whether to give the cb chain another go after that produce is executed
19:42:31  <snail_UES_> amdythenorth: I’m reading the chat log from earlier today… seriously it takes more than a minute for you to compile IH? :O
19:43:11  <nielsm> parked branches I haven't made PRs of yet: adlib-music, sampled-music, cargotiles, gs-industry-control, password-warning
19:43:24  <andythenorth> snail_UES_: yes
19:43:33  <andythenorth> it's horrible
19:43:34  <nielsm> password-warning should be low hanging, it's pretty much just stuck on getting some ugly layout
19:43:36  <andythenorth> nml is horrible
19:43:50  <andythenorth> snail_UES_: how do you like m4fnfo?
19:45:18  <peter1138> nml is way better than the alternatives.
19:46:14  <nielsm> the real magic in nml is translating expressions to varaction2 chains
19:46:52  <nielsm> I'm not sure if m4 is powerful enough to be able to do that
19:47:11  <snail_UES_> andythenorth: m4nfo is great… it’s very quick and the code is simple and easy to read
19:47:16  <snail_UES_> very expandable as well
19:47:35  <snail_UES_> my set is pretty complex, but it compiles in a matter of a few seconds
19:47:49  <snail_UES_> and if I do a change in one of the files, it compiles in literally less than 3-4 seconds
19:48:03  <snail_UES_> peter1138: how can you say nml is better?
19:48:14  <andythenorth> I wonder if I can template m4nfo
19:48:25  <snail_UES_> yeah, I use templates all the time
19:48:37  <andythenorth> no, I mean, write out m4nfo with python
19:48:41  <andythenorth> ;)
19:48:43  <nielsm> PR this?
19:49:02  <snail_UES_> use python to write m4nfo code, then use m4nfo to write nfo code out of that?
19:49:08  <andythenorth> yes
19:49:13  <snail_UES_> sounds pretty convoluted, doesn’t it? :p
19:49:23  <nielsm> the thing is, m4 _is_ a templating language
19:49:26  <nielsm> :)
19:49:33  <nielsm> (well, macro expansion language)
19:49:37  <snail_UES_> ok, but m4nfo itself is not difficult to learn
19:50:05  <andythenorth> I haven't tried m4, but my experience of macro expansion languages is that they require very specific way of thinking
19:50:38  <andythenorth> maybe I'm just burnt by CPP
19:50:54  <snail_UES_> andythenorth: well, a little bit. Like an F…THEN…ELSE…END IF block would be written in a slightly different way
19:50:59  <snail_UES_> it’s just a matter of getting the hand of it
19:51:02  <snail_UES_> *hang of it
19:51:10  <nielsm> right, this is why I haven't PR'd that yet:
19:51:15  <peter1138> LOL
19:51:23  <peter1138> m4nfo documents some non-standard flags for railtypes. Oh dear.
19:51:34  <andythenorth> who's used m4?
19:51:51  <peter1138> Something about 90 deg curves.
19:52:04  <nielsm> I've written a bit of autoconf, does that count? :(
19:52:19  <andythenorth> I am just curious about getting out of nml
19:52:25  <nielsm> (I'd rather not touch autoconf)
19:52:26  <andythenorth> it has to die, so what's the destination?
19:52:33  <peter1138> RT_ALLOW90	Always allow 90° curves [*]
19:52:34  <peter1138> RT_DISALLOW90	Always disallow 90° curves [*]
19:52:36  <peter1138> Mmmhmm.
19:52:47  <peter1138> Well, we just screwed any GRF using them :p
19:54:09  <snail_UES_> peter1138: I think this was when we discussed about adding a flag that would allow 90-degree curves on certain railtypes
19:54:17  <snail_UES_> it probably didn’t make it to trunk (yet)
19:54:22  <peter1138> Yeah but it's a very stange place to document it.
19:54:37  <peter1138>
19:54:40  <peter1138> ^^ correct place
19:54:46  <peter1138> And those bits are used officially now.
19:56:56  <snail_UES_> right…
19:57:11  <snail_UES_> but in what else is nml superior to m4nfo?
19:57:38  <snail_UES_> I’m genuinely curious, because so far I’ve had totally no issues with m4nfo (at least none so serious that makes me want to switch out of it altogether)
19:58:28  <peter1138> Erm, well, it's not m4 :p
19:58:53  <peter1138> I guess m4nfo is more advanced than I'd assumed.
19:59:24  * andythenorth considers trying it
19:59:47  <andythenorth> wonder if I can use both at once
20:00:01  <andythenorth> probably
20:00:03  <nielsm> does m4nfo have any system for automatically assigning sprite ids? it looks to me like it requires you to define every sprite id manually
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20:00:03  <nielsm> from the examples in the manual
20:00:21  <andythenorth> interesting idea: m4nfo + nml > nfo > grfcodec
20:00:23  <snail_UES_> nielsm: you mean graphic sprites, or IDs for vehicles?
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20:01:00  <nielsm> snail_UES_, it's the def(1) def(2) etc. things I'm thinking of
20:01:05  <peter1138> So... If I was to add more company colours...
20:01:38  <andythenorth> add a 3CC option
20:01:38  <nielsm> what are those numbers and why are they not textual identifiers?
20:01:38  <andythenorth> I would use it
20:01:43  <peter1138> No.
20:01:59  <peter1138> def() and ref()?
20:02:08  <snail_UES_> you can use textual identifiers, if you assign them to a number. I do it all the time
20:02:32  <peter1138> You have to manually assign the number?
20:02:34  <snail_UES_> I can define a macro and assign it to a number between 0 and 255
20:02:59  <peter1138> nielsm, basically it looks like a macro wrapper on top of nfo, rather than a language like nml.
20:03:12  <snail_UES_> define(my_id,123)
20:03:15  <andythenorth> it is what it says on the tin
20:03:17  <peter1138> Which it is, because it's m4.
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20:03:35  <nielsm> yeah it looks like it specifically does not have the expression magic nml has
20:03:35  <snail_UES_> then you can use def(my_id) and ref(my_id)
20:03:36  <nielsm> that converts arbitrary expressions to a varaction2 chain
20:03:56  <peter1138> nielsm, and that's why it's more efficient ;)
20:03:58  <snail_UES_> but once you use numbers, it’s very easy to keep track of what’s going on in the code
20:04:00  <nielsm> you need to write every calculation step out with all temporaries
20:06:23  <nielsm> so yeah, m4nfo is like a macro assembler, while nml is more like a pure functional language? :D
20:06:23  <andythenorth> yes
20:06:23  <snail_UES_> but the point is, even for a complex set as mine (which is full of features), you rarely “calculation” steps at all
20:06:24  <snail_UES_> *you rarely need “calculation” steps at all
20:06:24  <andythenorth> trains don't
20:06:24  <andythenorth> it's industries where that applies
20:06:24  <snail_UES_> most of the code is plain and simple
20:06:24  <nielsm> industries are different, I think
20:06:24  <nielsm> with production cbs
20:06:24  <andythenorth> industries aren't finished in m4nfo
20:06:24  <andythenorth> according to docs
20:07:59  <Eddi|zuHause> i think the route to take with an nml2 is to keep as much of the syntax as possible, but rewrite it internally (maybe not even in python), and add an intermediate language (object file) that allows linking
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20:10:33  <andythenorth> can we lose the syntax too? :P
20:10:38  <andythenorth> it's faffy
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20:11:10  <Alberth> add better syntax as well :)
20:11:32  <Alberth> ie backwards compatible as much as you can
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20:12:06  <Alberth> perhaps with some form of deprecated eventually
20:12:21  <Eddi|zuHause> you can add new syntax, but existing GRFs should need as little change as possible
20:12:44  <peter1138> Someone was saying that backwards compatibility cruft is not desired.
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20:13:11  <Eddi|zuHause> maybe, but there's different levels of that :p
20:13:11  <nielsm> planetmaker
20:13:29  <andythenorth> rewriting isn't hard
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20:13:32  <Alberth> you can overdo backwards compatibility
20:13:34  <andythenorth> just change a few templates
20:13:52  <Alberth> think of poor garryg :)
20:13:58  <andythenorth> it's all an intermediate format anyway
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20:14:45  <Alberth> new syntax should be so much better that everybody just shifts to it
20:15:06  <Alberth> that leaves tohe existing no-longer-maintained sources
20:15:11  <Alberth> *the
20:17:07  <Eddi|zuHause> my compiler construction professor was very adamant in the rule that you don't change the specs to fit your compiler, you write the compiler to implement the specs.
20:17:39  <Alberth> I agree
20:17:51  <andythenorth> hmm
20:18:37  <andythenorth> I like the idea of doing something naive though, and forcing scopes
20:18:37  <Alberth> and specs should be user-oriented, ie make it simple to use the language to express what is needed
20:18:43  <Alberth> you can always have one very very very long scope, can't you?
20:19:02  <snail_UES_> in general, deprecating “old” stuff could be dangerous
20:19:09  <andythenorth> so all symbols are currently global
20:19:16  <andythenorth> there's no encapsulation of any kind
20:19:18  <Alberth> not advisable, but yeah can be done
20:19:35  <andythenorth> but global symbols leads to a bloated syntax
20:19:40  <snail_UES_> look what they’ve done with skype… they rewrote it from the ground up from the perspective of a millennial obsessed with social media… lots of old features were left out
20:19:51  <snail_UES_> result: lots of users are migrating away from skype...
20:20:25  <Alberth> andy: you provide scope support, but don't force it
20:20:38  <Alberth> if you really don't want it, ok, it's your problem
20:21:09  <DorpsGek_II> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] nielsmh opened pull request #7351: Add: Warn players that company passwords are not truly secure
20:21:12  <andythenorth> I will defer to people who know how to design compilers :)
20:21:12  <andythenorth> I don't
20:21:17  <andythenorth> but I would rather have syntax where the compiler can infer scope from context
20:21:23  <peter1138> nielsm, so i guess the 16-in-16-out stuff needs a rethink?
20:21:28  <andythenorth> rather than the current global namespace
20:21:42  <Alberth> yeah global scope is horrible
20:21:45  <nielsm> peter1138: in nml? maybe
20:22:01  <peter1138> nielsm, at least the dropping-the-old-syntax part
20:22:11  <Alberth> do you have syntax in mind, andy?
20:22:18  <andythenorth> I did make one years ago, I am looking
20:22:29  <nielsm> I had zero experience with nml whatsoever when I did the initial patch
20:22:34  <nielsm> now I know a bit more about it
20:23:08  <andythenorth> oh here it is Alberth compares current nml, and a (not very good) scope proposal
20:23:14  <andythenorth> two sections
20:23:26  <Alberth> I still totally fail with understanding  grf, niels :)
20:23:30  <andythenorth> L79 onwards is the proposal
20:24:02  <andythenorth> I am sure it is bad, but it offers 3 things
20:24:09  <andythenorth> - reduces the tedious ID management
20:24:31  <andythenorth> - is one route to partial compiles and linkers
20:24:46  <andythenorth> - might speed up the implementation because it doesn't have to resolve IDs across the whole tree
20:24:55  <andythenorth> and it's just easier to write
20:25:07  <Alberth> the latter is the important bit
20:25:13  <andythenorth> I have found very limited cases for 'global' action 2 chains
20:25:36  <Alberth> compiler is likely better at finding such cases
20:25:39  <peter1138> You can share them  across vehicles, but yes.
20:25:42  <andythenorth> and very few, where the performance benefit of a global chain wouldn't be outweighed by a much faster compile
20:25:43  <Eddi|zuHause> nml is missing the most obvious: procedure calls
20:26:10  <andythenorth> also the nml idea of simplifying authoring by allowing string IDs
20:26:10  <Alberth> yeah, I wondered if the switch could be changed
20:26:11  <andythenorth> doesn't work
20:26:12  <peter1138> Really? Hmm.
20:26:29  <andythenorth> the string IDs are completely unstable and unusable, so I also have to provide numeric IDs for action 0 entities
20:26:38  <andythenorth> in retrospect, they are obviously flawed :)
20:26:47  <peter1138> andythenorth, uhm.
20:27:00  <Eddi|zuHause> nfo has procedure calls, i looked into patching them into nml, but didn't get far
20:27:07  <Alberth> stringIDs  are the  NAME part in NAME:text   ?
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20:27:11  <peter1138> so about 20 minutes ago we said that numeric IDs were bad.
20:27:13  <andythenorth> no
20:27:21  <andythenorth> numeric IDs are fine
20:27:21  <andythenorth> is an example
20:27:36  <andythenorth> numeric IDs are fine, because we like savegames not to break all the time
20:27:37  <andythenorth> thanks
20:27:37  <peter1138> numeric IDs for every varact2?
20:27:46  <andythenorth> no just action 0
20:27:49  <peter1138> hmm
20:28:02  <andythenorth> you recompiled, and your train ID changed?
20:28:04  <andythenorth> boom
20:28:07  <andythenorth> nice savegame you had
20:28:08  <peter1138> well you can provide them with nml, no?
20:28:22  <andythenorth> yes, and I also have to provide the stupid string IDs
20:28:23  <DorpsGek_II> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] nielsmh updated pull request #7351: Add: Warn players that company passwords are not truly secure
20:28:38  <andythenorth> I use a table of global constants
20:28:53  <andythenorth> well, strictly, I hide it all away in python
20:29:50  <Eddi|zuHause> which part of string IDs will crash savegames?
20:30:00  <andythenorth> not string IDs as in action 4
20:30:06  <andythenorth> the nml identifier for the action 0
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20:30:24  <andythenorth> they give unstable numeric IDs to the action 0 entity
20:30:36  <andythenorth> there is simply no way they can be stable as designed
20:30:54  <Eddi|zuHause> i don't follow
20:30:55  <andythenorth> unless they're being hashed in a way I don't know about?
20:31:11  <Alberth> so you want to assign them, and get warned when they change? or assigned automgaically, and saved for re-assigning the next time?
20:31:28  <andythenorth> I don't care, I solved it by writing a proper newgrf compile :)
20:31:43  <andythenorth> I just find it tedious having to manage both when creating new action 0 entities
20:32:03  <Alberth> fair
20:32:13  <andythenorth> e.g.
20:32:14  <peter1138> In that example, isn't 600 the ID?
20:32:19  <Eddi|zuHause> you mean, in the nml file you want a mapping table of vehicle IDs?
20:32:24  <andythenorth> 600 is the ID that my compile inserts
20:32:31  <andythenorth> the nml ID is action
20:32:34  <andythenorth> acton *
20:32:35  <Alberth> but the compiler could assign numbers, they just have to stick to the same action 0 ?
20:32:42  <andythenorth> it can't without a table
20:32:51  <Eddi|zuHause> so you can write once "TruckXYZ is id 600"?
20:32:53  <Alberth> sure, but who manages that table?
20:33:00  <andythenorth> I manage that table
20:33:18  <Alberth> that is also wanted? or out of necessity?
20:33:30  <andythenorth> I think my case is unusual
20:33:41  <andythenorth> probably distorts the goals
20:33:46  <peter1138> It's probably useful for backwards compatibility.
20:33:46  <Eddi|zuHause> well, i solve that by making those a #define
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20:33:57  <Eddi|zuHause> i think
20:34:02  <Eddi|zuHause> maybe
20:34:05  <Eddi|zuHause> i don't remember
20:34:13  <andythenorth> I would expect you wrote a global constants cpp file or similar
20:34:14  <Eddi|zuHause> and i don't want to look it up :p
20:34:30  <andythenorth> it's not an unsolved problem for me, it's just silly
20:34:32  <Alberth> sounds like a logical solution to me
20:34:37  <Eddi|zuHause> well, i have a giant table, it has an ID# entry
20:34:57  <Eddi|zuHause> to make sure the IDs stay constant over reshufflings and stuff
20:35:00  <Alberth> I'd like to know hoe to make it unsilly
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20:35:09  <Alberth> *how
20:35:34  <peter1138> Alberth, this is one of those examples of people developing workarounds instead of solutions, I think :(
20:35:37  <Alberth> ie what's the proper solution
20:35:47  <andythenorth> I don't know :)
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20:36:11  <Alberth> peter1138: that's fair enough, unless you know how to write a compiler
20:36:36  <Alberth> ok, it'll pop up again
20:36:40  <peter1138> Sure, but sometimes it pays just to tell other people you have this issue ;p
20:36:43  <andythenorth> if we want tokens that map stably to numbers, what else is there except a table?
20:36:58  <Alberth> yes, you need a table
20:37:02  <andythenorth> nml tries to remove the need for authors to manage IDs
20:37:05  <Alberth> I agree with that
20:37:17  <andythenorth> but anyone making anything more than 'my first newgrf' is going to end up writing numeric IDs
20:37:20  <peter1138> Yup. It should be possible to supply a fixed ID, though.
20:37:28  <peter1138> How do yhou do it currently?
20:37:31  <andythenorth> and they probably won't have a table or templater, so they'll do it manually
20:37:35  <andythenorth> seems like an own goal
20:37:55  <Eddi|zuHause> it is possible to provide fixed  IDs, but maybe it's not in the best possible locations
20:38:08  <Alberth> you or the compiler could make a file that defines that table
20:38:14  <peter1138> make the ID a from a hash of the string ID :D
20:38:24  <andythenorth> I was going to say that :(
20:38:27  <andythenorth> almost word for word
20:38:31  <andythenorth> but I had to argue with my kids
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20:38:39  <andythenorth> can OpenTTD read that though?
20:38:49  <peter1138> Can OpenTTD read what?
20:38:55  <peter1138> Why would it need to read anything?
20:39:03  <andythenorth> what would the hashed ID look like?
20:39:09  <peter1138> That would be internal to nml
20:39:13  <Eddi|zuHause> a hash is just a number
20:39:14  <Alberth> a number
20:39:29  <peter1138> It just means that you get the same number every time for the same string ID.
20:39:44  <Eddi|zuHause> although GRFs have pretty strict limits on those numbers
20:39:48  <andythenorth> use the grfid as a seed :P
20:39:50  <andythenorth> oof
20:39:52  <peter1138> It's pobably not a good idea, because, yeah, only 65535 numbers.
20:40:05  <peter1138> andythenorth, no need, IDs are unique per NewGRF.
20:40:22  <peter1138> Unless dynamic engines is off... Is that even tweakable?
20:40:25  <Eddi|zuHause> peter1138: about 1/4 of that, if you want to use it in articulated callback
20:40:26  <andythenorth> I was somewhat trolling :)
20:40:35  <peter1138> Eddi|zuHause, yup.
20:40:37  <andythenorth> didn't peter1138 fix that already?
20:40:39  <andythenorth> he should :P
20:40:49  <andythenorth> sprite limit disturbs
20:40:50  <peter1138> Eddi|zuHause, don't we have longer callbacks now?
20:41:05  <peter1138> limitation disturbs me very much. goes it throw out limitation?
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20:41:15  <peter1138> Or Something.
20:41:31  <Eddi|zuHause> peter1138: there's workarounds...
20:41:44  <peter1138> Limitation disturbs me very sprites. Goes it throw out limitation?
20:41:46  <peter1138> That was it.
20:42:19  <peter1138> Anyway, a unique hash for only 16 bit numbers is kinda ... meh.
20:42:20  <Eddi|zuHause> there's a variable that reads the result of the last varaction2, that can be 32bit
20:42:29  <Eddi|zuHause> but the callbacks never use that
20:42:34  <DorpsGek_II> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] michicc opened pull request #7352: Feature: Railtype flags to allow/disallow 90 degree curves.
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20:42:43  <peter1138> !
20:42:47  <Eddi|zuHause> you can use that with function calls, but nml doesn't provide those
20:42:55  <Eddi|zuHause> so effectively i think nobody uses that :p
20:43:28  <peter1138> michi_cc, who did that? o_O
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20:43:51  <peter1138> That was a coincidence...
20:44:03  <michi_cc> The patch I mean, not the m4nfo wiki entry
20:44:18  <peter1138> Yeah, who declared it official and... where did it come from? :p
20:44:19  <michi_cc> I have no clue who did that.
20:45:02  <Eddi|zuHause> it kinda makes sense for things like narrow gauge rails to have tighter curves
20:45:18  <Eddi|zuHause> we probably discussed that a few years ago
20:46:12  <michi_cc> says 7 months ago.
20:47:14  <andythenorth> so when I constantly rename vehicles, the hash would change :D
20:47:18  <andythenorth> nvm. not everyone is me
20:48:56  <andythenorth> do we know that nml doesn't hash already? :P
20:48:56  <peter1138> Why would you change the text ID? o_O
20:48:57  <andythenorth> because the vehicle got renamed?
20:48:57  <peter1138> But the text ID is... just an internal name.
20:48:57  <glx> nielsm: don't forget squirrel_export after generate_widget
20:48:57  <andythenorth> yes, and if it's wrong, it makes no sense
20:48:57  <andythenorth> but again, not everyone is me
20:48:57  <andythenorth> I reused the text ID all over the place
20:48:57  <nielsm> glx bah
20:48:57  <andythenorth> reuse *
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20:48:58  <andythenorth> I am the worst person to ask about nml :P
20:48:58  <andythenorth> I have circumvented it, I can't even write it without the docs open
20:49:09  <andythenorth> I am considering buying a tablet just to have the docs on
20:50:07  <Eddi|zuHause> nml docs as an ebook? :p
20:50:14  <andythenorth> maybe I print it?
20:50:15  <peter1138> michi_cc, so where was it declared official? Hmm. It's not in JGRPP.
20:50:21  * andythenorth looks for some nml
20:51:18  <andythenorth> found some
20:51:21  <peter1138> glx, I stalled on making it always generate because I thought we were close to switching to CMake.
20:52:53  <andythenorth> this one is quite simple, just a wagon with lots of cargo sprites
20:52:54  <andythenorth> nothing fancy
20:53:14  <peter1138> Hmm. Property 1A might be messed up since 64 railtypes :p
20:54:14  <andythenorth> this one is more interesting
20:54:32  <michi_cc> I think I only ever posted that gist here.
20:54:32  <Eddi|zuHause> we might very well be "close to switching to cmake" for another year :p
20:54:32  <glx> yes it would be useless to do it now and then switch to CMake
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20:56:12  <andythenorth> if we had scopes in the syntax, all the ${} stuff could go
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20:56:27  <andythenorth> that's me, not nml, but it has to be handled
20:56:46  <andythenorth> 145 instances of ${} in one template
20:56:57  <Eddi|zuHause> yes
20:57:02  <andythenorth> seems like something a compiler could just infer
20:57:08  <andythenorth> computer could do the work
20:57:35  <Alberth> I think everybody agrees :)
20:57:44  <andythenorth> ok, it's evidence then :)
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20:58:39  <andythenorth> so actual action 4 strings
20:58:42  <andythenorth> how do they work?
21:00:58  <andythenorth> vague recollection of DC and D0 texts
21:01:04  <andythenorth> and some work in some places and not others
21:01:21  <Eddi|zuHause> what's your problem?
21:01:26  <snail_UES_> andythenorth: :O
21:01:41  <snail_UES_> that’s some very… complex code
21:03:36  *** Samu__ has quit IRC
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21:06:08  <snail_UES_> andythenorth: all the code you pasted defines one vehicle in your set?
21:08:16  <andythenorth> the first paste is one wagon
21:08:19  <andythenorth> the other is one EMU
21:08:33  <andythenorth> I didn't write all that
21:08:41  <andythenorth> it's generated
21:08:45  <andythenorth> I don't write nml
21:09:28  <andythenorth> it's not doing very much
21:10:18  <andythenorth> the open wagon has cargo sprites, and two liveries
21:10:28  <andythenorth> not much else
21:10:28  <DorpsGek_II> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] nielsmh opened pull request #7353: Feature: Measure vehicle capacity utilisation efficiency
21:10:39  <nielsm> I'm not sure if that one is actually a good idea at all :)
21:11:12  <nielsm> also, it's the first patch I wrote for ottd so the code probably requires more clean up
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21:14:07  <nielsm> hmm, how about changing the delivery distance calculation (for everything) to use the front vehicle stopping point for pickup and delivery instead of the station sign location for source and destination...
21:14:43  <peter1138> What does that solve?
21:14:56  <Alberth> multi industry serving
21:15:10  <Alberth> night
21:15:19  <nielsm> delivery distance "faking" exploit by moving the station signs further apart
21:15:33  <nielsm> making the delivery distance count as longer despite maybe not traveling very far
21:15:35  <andythenorth> bye Alberth
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21:16:39  <peter1138> Ah, so you could still make it a longer distance... but it would actually be a longer distance.
21:18:46  <nielsm>
21:20:57  <peter1138> But yes, definitely split that up.
21:21:25  <peter1138> Erm, 7353 that is :p
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21:24:03  <Eddi|zuHause> ... or you could determine the closest distance between the station tiles
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21:24:47  <peter1138> Hmm
21:24:52  <peter1138> That would be more predictable.
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21:25:58  <peter1138> But probably more work to calculate as it depends on the station pair combination.
21:26:20  <Eddi|zuHause> could be cached?
21:26:23  <nielsm> look at station extents rectangles and find shortest distance between their outlines?
21:26:50  <nielsm> using actual station tiles and caching you'd have n^2 cache items (n = stations)
21:26:55  <Eddi|zuHause> i mean, statistically, only very few station combinations will ever be used
21:27:42  <Eddi|zuHause> i'm fairly sure that works out to something linear in most cases
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21:28:35  <Eddi|zuHause> you don't usually send out vehicles to visit random stations
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21:30:19  <Eddi|zuHause> every station gets a sparse mapping from station ID to distance
21:30:36  <Eddi|zuHause> if on delivery, the mapping doesn't exist, it gets calculated
21:31:01  <Eddi|zuHause> if a station gets modified, loop through all stations and invalidate that station's map entry
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21:33:39  <Eddi|zuHause> and the algorithm to calculate the distance between actual station tiles (not rectangles) should be able to build on top of the non-rect catchment data structures
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21:35:44  <DorpsGek_II> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] glx22 opened pull request #7354: Fix: [AzurePipelines] don't assume master as target branch when rebas…
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22:01:04  <DorpsGek_II> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] glx22 updated pull request #7354: Fix: [AzurePipelines] don't assume master as target branch when rebas…
22:03:31  *** Progman_ has joined #openttd
22:07:07  <peter1138> Eddi|zuHause, catchment covers a larger area than actual station tiles.
22:07:36  *** Progman has quit IRC
22:07:41  <peter1138> Stations already have a tilearea which can be searched.
22:07:51  *** Progman_ is now known as Progman
22:08:02  <Eddi|zuHause> yes, but mathematically, station tiles is effectively the same data structure, with radius 0 :)
22:08:14  <DorpsGek_II> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] glx22 updated pull request #7354: Fix: [AzurePipelines] don't assume master as target branch when rebas…
22:08:30  <Eddi|zuHause> (maybe that is overkill)
22:09:20  <peter1138> Loop through all station tiles on both sides to find the shortest distance?
22:12:12  <DorpsGek_II> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] glx22 updated pull request #7346: Fix: rebase to 1.9 branch for backport PRs
22:12:13  <DorpsGek_II> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] glx22 dismissed a review for pull request #7346: Fix: rebase to 1.9 branch for backport PRs
22:12:26  * glx is doing some tests
22:12:31  <glx> sorry for the spam ;)
22:20:03  <DorpsGek_II> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] glx22 commented on pull request #7346: Fix: rebase to 1.9 branch for backport PRs
22:21:41  <DorpsGek_II> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] glx22 commented on pull request #7354: Fix: [AzurePipelines] don't assume master as target branch when rebas…
22:22:09  <glx> done :)
22:28:21  <DorpsGek_II> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] PeterN approved pull request #7354: Fix: [AzurePipelines] don't assume master as target branch when rebas…
22:28:57  <DorpsGek_II> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] PeterN approved pull request #7346: Fix: rebase to 1.9 branch for backport PRs
22:30:22  <DorpsGek_II> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] LordAro merged pull request #7354: Fix: [AzurePipelines] don't assume master as target branch when rebas…
22:31:55  <LordAro> glx: commit checker still failing for #7346? or is that expected
22:32:19  <glx> it is, CI needs modification
22:33:25  <glx> I'm looking at how to do it, but never touched docker stuff :)
22:33:30  <peter1138> Basically we can't backport anything to 1.9 ;)
22:33:58  <glx> indeed, and the first thing to backport will be #7354
22:35:33  <glx> at least it was easy to check the change in different branches because I already had an open PR
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22:39:36  <DorpsGek_II> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] glx22 commented on pull request #7346: Fix: rebase to 1.9 branch for backport PRs
22:40:12  <DorpsGek_II> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] PeterN approved pull request #7352: Feature: Railtype flags to allow/disallow 90 degree curves.
22:45:30  <LordAro> Eddi|zuHause: Wolf01: astroneer crashed 4 times in the last hour :(
22:45:38  <LordAro> i think it's having trouble with my rover and the terrain
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22:59:09  <DorpsGek_II> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] TrueBrain commented on pull request #7354: Fix: [AzurePipelines] don't assume master as target branch when rebas…
23:00:12  <peter1138> See...
23:00:34  <DorpsGek_II> [OpenTTD/CompileFarm] glx22 commented on issue #29: Commit checker always expect origin/master, even for non master PRs
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23:02:50  <DorpsGek_II> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] glx22 commented on pull request #7354: Fix: [AzurePipelines] don't assume master as target branch when rebas…
23:02:51  <DorpsGek_II> [OpenTTD/CompileFarm] TrueBrain commented on issue #29: Commit checker always expect origin/master, even for non master PRs
23:02:59  <Wolf01> LordAro: I read they are tweeaking the terrain because of many bugs, so maybe they broke it more
23:03:24  <TrueBrain> glx: I think in fact that rebase should be skipped if that variable is not set
23:03:27  <TrueBrain> now I think about it some more
23:03:38  <TrueBrain> as that means it is checking a branch itself .. rebasing that is kinda weird :P
23:03:42  <TrueBrain> only PRs should be rebased, I think
23:04:13  <glx> indeed, if we build a branch we usually build head
23:04:28  <glx> and rebase is useless
23:04:31  <DorpsGek_II> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] TrueBrain dismissed a review for pull request #7346: Fix: rebase to 1.9 branch for backport PRs
23:04:44  <TrueBrain> so yeah, that at least is an easy fix :)
23:05:05  <TrueBrain> while at it glx, please change: git rebase origin/$SYSTEM_PULLREQUEST_TARGETBRANCH
23:05:08  <TrueBrain> into: git rebase origin/${SYSTEM_PULLREQUEST_TARGETBRANCH}
23:05:12  <TrueBrain> always pretty please escape variables :)
23:05:17  <TrueBrain> or inclose
23:05:21  <TrueBrain> or how ever you want to call that :P
23:05:24  <glx> will do
23:05:37  <TrueBrain> ty :)
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23:08:32  <TrueBrain> glx: if you need help with the Docker stuff, also in understanding etc, let me know!
23:08:43  <DorpsGek_II> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] nielsmh requested changes for pull request #7352: Feature: Railtype flags to allow/disallow 90 degree curves.
23:09:44  <TrueBrain> lol; so we went from a debate about 90 degress yes/no for ships, to allow NewGRFs to set it for trains :D I like this :)
23:10:14  <glx> well if it's an env var I think it should be as simple as using ${SYSTEM_PULLREQUEST_TARGETBRANCH} in docker shell scripts
23:10:33  <glx> we the existence checks of course
23:10:37  <glx> *with
23:10:37  <TrueBrain> glx: yeah; just please name it differentl in Docker, and you will be fine indeed :)
23:10:50  <TrueBrain> just TARGET_BRANCH or something :P
23:11:31  <glx> I think I should do it for bash task, as I used an undocumented variable that may not exist in future
23:11:45  <TrueBrain> what do you mean, sorry?
23:12:59  <glx> in #7354 I assumed SYSTEM_PULLREQUEST_TARGETBRANCH was present (well I checked with 'env' first), but it's probably better to explicitely set a var
23:13:35  <TrueBrain> for 7354 etc it is fine
23:13:40  <TrueBrain> as it is Azure Pipelines specific
23:13:46  <TrueBrain> and they defined it exists for a PR
23:13:57  <TrueBrain> so in my  opinion, no need to map it again, or something
23:13:58  <LordAro> Wolf01: also, this cube/pyramid/obelisk thing is almost entirely encased in rock
23:14:07  <TrueBrain> (as the bash is already executed in the context of Azure Pipelines)
23:14:16  <Wolf01> Dig it out
23:14:20  <TrueBrain> for the Dockers how-ever it is different, as they are not always executed in the context of Azure Pipelines :)
23:14:38  <LordAro> Wolf01: am doing so, but slow
23:14:57  <Wolf01> I'm still trying to activate the nearest one... it requires a LOT of power
23:15:28  <LordAro> not too much... 1 medium + 2 small does well enough for me
23:15:32  <LordAro> i just connect my rover up
23:17:01  <peter1138>
23:17:06  <peter1138> Anyone fancy touching that? :/
23:20:35  <DorpsGek_II> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] michicc commented on pull request #7352: Feature: Railtype flags to allow/disallow 90 degree curves.
23:20:51  <DorpsGek_II> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] michicc updated pull request #7352: Feature: Railtype flags to allow/disallow 90 degree curves.
23:20:52  <DorpsGek_II> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] michicc dismissed a review for pull request #7352: Feature: Railtype flags to allow/disallow 90 degree curves.
23:22:59  *** nielsm has quit IRC
23:23:44  <peter1138> Hmm, wonder if we can do per-character font-fallback rather than all-or-nothing.
23:31:51  <peter1138> Hmm, updating that Catchment_area thing is awkward, as it'll be 1.10 changes, and 1.9 isn't released yet :p
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23:44:56  <DorpsGek_II> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] glx22 opened pull request #7355: Fix e4cc06f67: [AzurePipelines] rebase only for PRs
23:46:27  <TrueBrain> that works as well I guess :D
23:46:43  <DorpsGek_II> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] TrueBrain approved pull request #7355: Fix e4cc06f67: [AzurePipelines] rebase only for PRs
23:46:45  <TrueBrain> nice glx :)
23:47:06  <peter1138> Not what you were thinking of?
23:47:13  <TrueBrain> nope :)
23:47:18  <TrueBrain> my solution was worse :P
23:47:27  <glx> I first tried with if [ -n ..]
23:47:42  <glx> but why run the task at all ? ;)
23:48:06  <TrueBrain> indeed :D
23:48:57  <glx> hmm I should include the env stuff for the docker while at it
23:50:06  <glx> or not, because it's a fix, not an addition

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